Why is diesel more expensive than gas? My jeep wants to know.

[TRobertsRN]

Diesel used to be cheaper than gas.

Why is it more expensive now?

I believe it is cheaper to product than gas or has this changed with the new low sulfur diesel?

Is that it or is it just all taxes or over inflated profit?

Tom, who wants to know even more now that there may be easy swaps to the 2.8 diesel in Jeeps future according to Jason.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

I'm not worried about the price...yet. WIth more diesel entering the market very soon it could be a deterant to buy gas models instead becuase the fuel savings maybe a wash when the price is more than .60 high per gal. On most new car purchases it will take a consumer 100,000 befor they see a real savings in which most owners will trade or sell the diesel car before the 100k mark. Now the obvious benefit is low rpm torque and a longer lasting motor tripple of the gasoline engine. You will also enjoy a higher resale value, on average $4,000 more and most passenger diesel upgrades are around $2,000.

Now why is Diesel more now? ULSD can be the only reason?? Or you can buy bio deisel at western pertrolium for $?.?? They usually post a price per gal (.30 less than regualr Diesel) on thier site? I will call on monday!

http://www.westernstatespetroleum.com/biodiesel.htm

http://www.biowillieusa.com/index.php

http://www.biodiesel.org/

http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfuelingsites/showstate.asp?st=AZ

[mingoglia]

I'm pretty concerned as well with the price of diesel....not only because I own one, but because all the goods that we buy at the stores at one time during their transit were transported via a diesel powered vehicle... high diesel prices = higher cost of goods. It's a vicious cycle.

Mike

[JamesT]

It can't be the lower sulfer content. Sulfer was added to the old fuel, much like lead, to help the engines last longer.

[brian lujan]

it's all about the MONEY no joke.

[SavageSun4x4]

it's all about the MONEY no joke.

X2

Its based upon what the traffic will bear, simple as that.

Filled up the other day at Thomas and 16th street @ $279.9 per gal. Forgot to fill up my small gas tank for my pressure washer. Stopped in at the last gas station before I got to my house and filled up the plastic tank @ $3.32.9 per gallon.

NOTE: They were both Circle K.

Who is making the money.

[Hardboater]

Perhaps I can shed a little light on the question why diesel is more expensive than gasoline. At least here are a couple reasons. Please don’t shot the messenger.

First, internal combustion engines develop power from the release of energy, in the little spurt of hydrocarbon (diesel or motor fuel) into the cylinder by burning it. Diesel being more dense or “heavier” weighs more than motor fuel. The energy derived from hydrocarbons is expressed in Btu/lb. Thus a gallon of the heavier diesel has more energy than a gallon of motor fuel. There are some other factors involve in these engines however energy released (Btu's) per pound is the primary one. Strangely we purchase these products on a volumetric basis yet the energy contained is based on density. So on one count, the diesel has more energy and theoretically should produce more power and miles per gallon. So on this basis it can command a slightly higher price all other things being equal.

In processing crude oil to make saleable products motor fuel is less costly to make than diesel. It’s takes more energy and expensive, heavier walled equipment made steel and alloys to refine diesel to US EPA standards. For example it costs up to five times as much, sometimes less, to make a gallon of diesel to that of gasoline. By the way, by far the greatest cost factor for gasoline and diesel is the cost of crude oil. So this multiplier is on a relatively small number. So there another economic reason that increases the price of diesel compared to motor fuel.

Producing ultra low sulfur diesel or ULSD is certainly going to drive the price higher as well. Refiners worldwide are planning and implementing projects to produce ULSD although I’m not sure the requirements are in effect here as yet. If not it certainly is coming. There certainly is a low sulfur diesel, or LSD, US EPA regulation in place now. It is not as stringent on sulfur content as the ULSD.

It is an interesting phenomenon that refining diesel to ULSD specifications causes a loss of a significant amount of its natural lubricity. The end result being very short lives for diesel injection pumps etc. as was experienced using “winter diesel” in far northern Canada. Also the experience with “City Diesel” in Sweden circa 1990 exposed the loss of natural lubricity by the decrease in run lengths for the injectors from several years to about 6 months. To off set the lack of lubricity additives have been and are being developed.

At very low temperatures diesel becomes to viscous to flow or be pumped into an engine. In the last part of the twentieth century one way to produce this “winter diesel” was to blend kerosene into the diesel. Kerosene does not have a natural lubricity similar to unprocessed diesel so the loss of lubricity came to the fore. Diesel engine owners and manufacturers quickly sought a means to improve the life of their equipment. Numerous specialty chemical companies started looking for answers.

Because the technology is now almost two decades old, there are several commercially proven chemicals and prominent vendors offering lubricity additives. Lubricity additives for diesel fuel target the replenishment of boundary lubrication. This is done using highly polar compounds. Some typical compounds are: carboxylic acid, amides, phenols, alcohols, amines to name a few.

Enough! As always there can be local economic factors such as supply and demand ratios that influence prices too. Hope the above answers some questions.

[mysunnshine]

Is there a Cliff's Notes version to that?

[Hardboater]

OK, sketical .. yes the Internet is full of so-called experts. My own professional credentials include 40 years in the various aspects of the oil and petrochemila business including doing ULSD projects and developing a lubricity study. Everything written in my earlier reply is verifable. BTW, I won't claim to be an expert however I do consider myself knowledgeable on the subject.

[David C]

I am far from an expert on the details of gas and diesel production - in fact I am totally clueless. However, a retarded monkey can see the outrageous greed fueling the high prices and all-time RECORD PROFITS for any company in history. GREEDY scum bags are ripping us off, and laughing in our faces. Period.

[mysunnshine]

OK, sketical .. yes the Internet is full of so-called experts. My own professional credentials include 40 years in the various aspects of the oil and petrochemila business including doing ULSD projects and developing a lubricity study. Everything written in my earlier reply is verifable. BTW, I won't claim to be an expert however I do consider myself knowledgeable on the subject.

Hold your horses there- Don't get bent(unless you want to)-
Here's a Cliff's Notes version of your 480 word dissertation.

1. Diesel has more BTU's than gasoline
2. We purchase by volume instead of density
3. Motor fuel is less costly to make than diesel due to equipment
4. Old technology
5. Economic factors

[TRobertsRN]

Hold your horses there- Don't get bent(unless you want to)-
Here's a Cliff's Notes version of your 480 word dissertation.

1. Diesel has more BTU's than gasoline
2. We purchase by volume instead of density
3. Motor fuel is less costly to make than diesel due to equipment
4. Old technology
5. Economic factors

It was my opinion that diesel was cheaper to produce but his post said was more expensive due to higher equipment costs.

[Fire Ball]

Before you get too bundled up in a knot, are you responding to sunshine's post or sig line?

That sig line is on all posts by that person and not directed at you. :)

[JeepPunk]

Crude doesnt yeild as much diesel as reg fuel...

There is demand for diesel fuel these days, much more than past. Think about how many diesel rigs are on the road these days, and how the volume of diesel vehicles has increased in the past ten years alone.

So a little why diesel cost more is... it takes more crude oil to produce a tank of diesel than it does a tank of reg. fuel. The demand for more diesel has caused the price to rise due to it taking more crude to fill the demand. Here is a little info on what a barrel of crude will produce:

Product Gallons per barrel
gasoline 19.5
distillate fuel oil
(Includes both home heating oil and diesel fuel) 9.2
kerosene-type jet fuel 4.1
residual fuel oil
(Heavy oils used as fuels in industry, marine transportation and for electric power generation) 2.3
liquefied refinery gasses 1.9
still gas 1.9
coke 1.8
asphalt and road oil 1.3
petrochemical feedstocks 1.2
lubricants 0.5
kerosene 0.2
other 0.3

Figures are based on average yields for U.S. refineries in 2007. One
barrel contains 42 gallons of crude oil. The total volume of products
made is 2.6 gallons greater than the original 42 gallons of crude oil.
This represents “processing gain.”


1 US gallon = 3.785 liters
1 barrel = 42 gallons = 158.9873 liters = 5.6146 cu ft = 0.159 cu meters
= 0.136 metric ton
1 metric ton of crude = 7.35 barrels of crude

{ 1 metric ton = 1000 kg = 2205 lb [1 long ton = 2240 lb ; 1 short ton = 2000 lb] }

Hope this may show a little why diesel cost more than reg fuel. It takes more crude to fill the same size tank as a gasoline fuel vehicle. The demand for diesel drives the price... like anything in this world.

Dave

[Hardboater]

Nice job, another Dave

[Fire Ball]

I was gonna go into a long story about how gasoline and diesel are made. (I used to make both) I have also made jp4, methanol, anhydrous ammonia, methane, creosote, liquid oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur, and many other products.

But then I realized how much drama is produced on this site so I deleted my essay and decided to just go on lurking in the corner :D

[TRobertsRN]

Crude doesnt yeild as much diesel as reg fuel...

There is demand for diesel fuel these days, much more than past. Think about how many diesel rigs are on the road these days, and how the volume of diesel vehicles has increased in the past ten years alone.

So a little why diesel cost more is... it takes more crude oil to produce a tank of diesel than it does a tank of reg. fuel. The demand for more diesel has caused the price to rise due to it taking more crude to fill the demand. Here is a little info on what a barrel of crude will produce:

Product Gallons per barrel
gasoline 19.5
distillate fuel oil
(Includes both home heating oil and diesel fuel) 9.2
kerosene-type jet fuel 4.1
residual fuel oil
(Heavy oils used as fuels in industry, marine transportation and for electric power generation) 2.3
liquefied refinery gasses 1.9
still gas 1.9
coke 1.8
asphalt and road oil 1.3
petrochemical feedstocks 1.2
lubricants 0.5
kerosene 0.2
other 0.3

Figures are based on average yields for U.S. refineries in 2007. One
barrel contains 42 gallons of crude oil. The total volume of products
made is 2.6 gallons greater than the original 42 gallons of crude oil.
This represents “processing gain.”


1 US gallon = 3.785 liters
1 barrel = 42 gallons = 158.9873 liters = 5.6146 cu ft = 0.159 cu meters
= 0.136 metric ton
1 metric ton of crude = 7.35 barrels of crude

{ 1 metric ton = 1000 kg = 2205 lb [1 long ton = 2240 lb ; 1 short ton = 2000 lb] }

Hope this may show a little why diesel cost more than reg fuel. It takes more crude to fill the same size tank as a gasoline fuel vehicle. The demand for diesel drives the price... like anything in this world.

Dave

So it appears that even if a diesel vehicle got twice the miles per gallon of a gas vehicle that more diesel vehicles will in fact increase our need for middle east oil???

I want the longevity, the better gas mileage, more torque, but I want less dependance on middle east oil too.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

So it appears that even if a diesel vehicle got twice the miles per gallon of a gas vehicle that more diesel vehicles will in fact increase our need for middle east oil???

I want the longevity, the better gas mileage, more torque, but I want less dependance on middle east oil too.

Thats why I posted the links for the biodiesel

Jason

[JeepPunk]

So it appears that even if a diesel vehicle got twice the miles per gallon of a gas vehicle that more diesel vehicles will in fact increase our need for middle east oil???

I want the longevity, the better gas mileage, more torque, but I want less dependance on middle east oil too.

The USA imports more oil from Canada than any other nation.

Total Imports of Petroleum (Top 15 Countries) - (Thousand Barrels per Day)

CANADA - 2,360
SAUDI ARABIA - 1,686
VENEZUELA - 1,387
MEXICO - 1,322
NIGERIA - 1,271
ALGERIA - 600
ANGOLA - 439
VIRGIN ISLANDS - 387
IRAQ - 378
RUSSIA - 306
UNITED KINGDOM - 238
ECUADOR - 201
BRAZIL - 178
KUWAIT - 158
NETHERLANDS - 157

Dave

[Fire Ball]

As recently as the 1970's we exported oil. At one tiome we exported almost 1/3 of our oil production. Now we import about 1/2 of what we use.

[dirtbuggy]

like digger said its albout the money more diesel car and trucks now more money in their pocket the way their pushing diesels someday they will out number gas machines and then see how high the price is and gas will be cheap just a big old turn around. money money money the rich git richer

[TRobertsRN]

Thats why I posted the links for the biodiesel

Jason


SUPPORT OIL INDEPENDANCE, EAT MORE FRENCH FRIES!!!!