Need some help....ASAP

[ArizonaXJ]

Hi Folks,
Hate to disrupt all the drama BUT.....I have a JEEP issue :eek:
Here's the low down;
1989 XJ with 258,000 miles, 3" add a leaf, 4.0, AW4, NP231, Renix FI system.
Starts up okay (when Cold), Idles okay for a few minutes then sounds like something is getting cut off (air, fuel).
So far I have done the following; Replaced...plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel pump, fuel filter, Throttle position sensor, exhaust manifold, O2 sensor, fuel pressure regulator, battery, battery cable clamps, muffler, various vaccum lines and fittings......:aagh:

Needless to say it is still acting up. I am at my witts end and ready to put this thinig out of my misery. I would have done it a couple of weeks ago BUT...this is the wifes rig and she really likes it and enjoys driving it. On and off the trail.

So, with the above being said....what do you folks have to offer up as advice?

Don't be bashful. I'm at the point that I am williing to try just about anything.

Thanks in advance for the help..........I hope.

BTW, Crank position sensor was swapped out not too long ago and the MAP sensor was also swapped out...for a test but NO change.

[Allen]

just a guess......


plugged cat!


they'll run cold, but when they heat up they stop the air from exiting the motor....and die!

[AZXJ]

Hows the IAC ?

How old is the CAT ?

Dave

[ArizonaXJ]

excuse my ignorance but, what is an IAC?
The cat thinig is something that I hadn't considered.....let me back brief a bit if you will.....

This "battle" all started about 3 months ago when I decided to tackle the high idle (any where from 1100-1500 rpm). Got a new TPS and things just prgressed from there and instead of getting better, they have gotten worse.
It is to the point that I am ready to take this thing to a mechanic.....just to fiind out that it has $2.87 part that is bad as opposed to the $350.00 worth of parts that I have put on TODAY ALONE!!!!!! :aagh:

Is there a test for these?????? Desperate minds NEED to know.

[lancetkenyon]

Take it to a mech, it will save you $$$ in the long run.

[ArizonaXJ]

Take it to a mech, it will save you $$$ in the long run.

Too far in for that now Lance....come on, you have to have something to suggest other then that.....make believe that you're out on the trail with this thing and it's 8+ miles back to the trailer..............come on man....YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

[Allen]

I had a 94 YJ that did this exact thing intermittantly! I thought it was gas related and pulled the tank, installed a pump, changed the filter, changed the plugs, changed the air filter, blah...blah...blah. No change! When I was in traffic it would loose power and stall and I'd pump the gas just trying to make it run 10 seconds longer! Then one day a redneck friend of mine was there when it acted up and he grabbed a drill and poked a small hole in the cat! IT RAN GREAT!

I replaced the cat shortly after that and it never happened again......as long as I owned it!

[AZXJ]

IAC = Idle air control valve.

I'd also check for vacume leaks.

[nolimits4x4]

what did you do to try to adjust the idle if you moved the throttle blade screw if so did you set the tps voltage im not sure about what its supposed to be on a jeep (sorry new to jeeps) but on most other vehicles its supposed to be as close to 1 volt but not over at idle the tps controls the IAC as well as other things so if its of it can make it run very erratic i would also check the cat thing unless its new drill a hole in it see what happens also check all your vacuum lines

[OlneyJeeps]

Is the add a leaf sagging?

ok seriously:aagh:, because problem "popped up", eventough cat may be bad (IMHO cats are evil... Dogs rule) that would not cause "all of the sudden" problem.... it would just run gutless and bog down.

Have you put a fuel pressure gauge on it (autozone $30)?
I saw you put fuel pump on ... 2 possibilities:
defective fuel pump (like that ever happens)
clamp on connector hose (off fuel pump) came loose

[ArizonaXJ]

UPDATE on "THE BEAST"....so to speak......

Tried the hole in the CAT, no change.
Fuel pump checks out okay.
IAC (left of the Throttle position switch), swapped out also.
Replaced 842,000 miles of vaccum line, and many, many vaccum connectors.
Seemed to run better (for brief periods) with one vaccum line disconnected from the "hub of hoses" that is on the engine behind the power steering pump.

Come on guys (and gals) I know that one of you know what $3.69 part it is that I need to replace.......my wife is starting to question my mechanical abilities....and TWO of my friends' as well.

[Antman]

Have you tried hitting or kicking it in it's sweet spot?:online2long:

[ShmUDE]

computer maybe? spray some carb cleaner around the vacuum lines and see if the idle changes...if it does, then their is a leak.

[AZLugz]

Come on guys (and gals) I know that one of you know what $3.69 part it is that I need to replace.......my wife is starting to question my mechanical abilities....and TWO of my friends' as well.


I can't help on your problem but I can tell you these TWO are NOT your friends, if they were, you would never know they were questioning your abilities behind your back!!!!! :laugh2:

[TRLR8TDTJ]

I dont see coil on the list might as well give it one of those as well.

Kyle

[ArizonaXJ]

Have you tried hitting or kicking it in it's sweet spot?:online2long:

Every chance I get when my wife's back is turned....it's her rig so...

computer maybe? spray some carb cleaner around the vacuum lines and see if the idle changes...if it does, then their is a leak.

Tried this with Carb & Choke cleaner, Break cleaner, Starter fluid and everything else that I could find....no change unles sprayed DIRECTLY into a disconnected vaccum line.

I can't help on your problem but I can tell you these TWO are NOT your friends, if they were, you would never know they were questioning your abilities behind your back!!!!! :laugh2:

No, no.....she is starting to question THEIR abilities as well as mine....three men and one teen age boy all getting bested by a d**n Jeep.........we keep telling ourselves that it just has to be........and then we try that and nothing...then we go "hey, it MUST be...." and the story goes on and on and on.....

After aproximately 10 hours we said screw it and switched over to the old stand by..........BEER!.......for the first time ever BEER did not give us any new insight or ideas.

[OlneyJeeps]

how did you test pump?
did you have gauge on as it died?
have you tried to keep running / observe response to squirting starter fluid down throttle body (just quick squirt) as it was dying (this would ID / eliminate fuel system as problem)?

[ArizonaXJ]

how did you test pump?
did you have gauge on as it died?
have you tried to keep running / observe response to squirting starter fluid down throttle body (just quick squirt) as it was dying (this would ID / eliminate fuel system as problem)?

Can not run with throttle body open. Jeep won't even run with air box off from end of intake hose unless you keep your hand over the end and closing off 90% of the opening.No gauge on it when it died.

[NVRSTUKXJ]

did you check the fuel pressure w/a gage, at the fuel rail????....it doesn't have to run to check to make sure you're getting the correct pressure....unless, of course, you did pull the fuel pump out of the tank and verified that the small hose was securely in place......

[OlneyJeeps]

what he said... I have seen (multiple times ) connection pipe come loose (good pressure for start up then looses pressure)

[lancetkenyon]

Too far in for that now Lance....come on, you have to have something to suggest other then that.....make believe that you're out on the trail with this thing and it's 8+ miles back to the trailer..............come on man....YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

OK, I throw a strap on you, tow you back to the airdown spot, put your rig on my trailer, you drive my rig and trailer to your house, while I follow in my Junk, with the goggles on. Tell you to take it to a mech on your day off.

I have done this twice so far.

[FourxDad]

I know my XJ would not Idle at all unless it was around 2700rpm:aagh:. Turns out the battery was going bad. It had enough to start but not constant enough power for electronics.

My expierence and2cents. Keep us posted

[ORIGoodyear]

Clogged fuel injectors or a restriction in the fuel rail.
Just replace motor, trans, & computer w/ H.O. 91+ version thats what I did. The job sucks but its worth it in the end.:aagh:

[gotpower]

air, fuel, and spark...... sounds like you got air and spark covered.....

[Detention]

How do the plugs look? Are they black gray? Are you getting a good burn or are you burning any oil?

[Detention]

You didn't bend or smash your tail pipe at Table Mesa on the 9th did you?

[Horned Owl]

Ok,

I'm not sure that you have the "exact" same problem that I did a while back but it sounds pretty close, so I figure I should offer up my solution.

I have an 01 TJ with a 4.0L

About a year ago it would start up fine cold then run fine until it warmed up then it would start sputtering and running like crap, sometimes would die, and typically would kick out faults on the OBD.

Well, after throwing several hundred dollars of parts at it and getting no where, I took it too a Jeep dealer. Well 90 bucks in labor later my jeep was fixed. Evidently the Cam or crankshaft position sensor had come out of alignment or something so the computer couldn't properly schedule ignition anymore. It was a quick and simple fix.

So, maybe this helps. I hope it does. But then, if you dont have an electronic ignition system, I just wasted a bunch of time typing.

[ArizonaXJ]

OK, I throw a strap on you, tow you back to the airdown spot, put your rig on my trailer, you drive my rig and trailer to your house, while I follow in my Junk, with the goggles on. Tell you to take it to a mech on your day off.
I have done this twice so far.

You win Lance.....that's what I'm doing on Friday :disappointed:

As for the rest of you with your suggestions; Thanks, all have been taken into consideration, tried, and very appreciated (except for your suggestion Andy. I can't afford that right now. Wish I could).
However, what ever demon has possesed the wife's Xj needs to be exercised by a holier then thy mechanic..........

I'll let you guys know how it turns out........

[lancetkenyon]

About time you listened to the voice(not mine) of reason.

[ArizonaXJ]

Should know something this week.......can't wait to hear what the verdict is..

Jason, It would appear that your guys were right in their suggestion as to where to turn to get the demon exercised from the wife's Jeep. I have not heard anything but positive about Bob and his guys......

[TRLR8TDTJ]

Any word on what the problem was?

Kyle

[Haughton]

Here's a real crazy idea. Drop the fuel tank, drain it and check for foreign objects inside (don't use a lighter for light).

Why would I suggest this? Well, turns out that I once had an old Honda that would run for awhile, then die. Wouldn't start. Let it sit and it would be fine. Full tank of gas and it was happy for quite a while. Low on fuel, it died sooner.

Turn out someone had decided to put a plastic sandwich bag in the tank. Typically it floated, but when shaken around, especially when the fuel level was low, it would get sucked up against the fuel line out of the tank to the engine. No gas, engine dies. Wait awhile, the vacuum releases and the bag floats up and you get fuel again. Repeat until you want to blow the car up.

Worth a look..but like I said, just not with a lighter.

[ArizonaXJ]

Okay Folks,
Here is the deal........
You all know that the wife's XJ would run sometimes, idle high, low, or not run etc.....
This is what I did when the symptoms started and pretty much in the order that I did them:

Fuel pump & filter (no significant change)

Exhaust manifold & O2 sensor ( good change on Friday night & 1/2 the next Saturday and then back to crap)

TPS (slight change)
ISA-idle switch actuator (no change)
Plugs, wires, cap, rotor (no change)
new muffler (no change. this was needed but obviously not going to affect the running of the engine. just something that was fixed along the way)
Multiple vacuum lines and connections (no change)
New batter terminals and battery (no change. this was done because we thought that maybe the sensors and computer weren't receiving proper voltage)
Fuel injector cleaner (no change)
MAP sensor (no change)

Finally sought professional help........Insert BIG Thanks to Jason and the service guys at Airpark for their HONESTY & INTEGRITYand referring me to ANOTHER mechanic for help.

Enter stage right....the Jeep Doctor....Bob ***applause***

Told Bob and his guys what all I did and what all the symptoms were from the beginning.
Bob and his guys discovered two things (one of which I am ashamed to admit to)......Bad (meaning a real POS) EGR valve and then the one thing that I am ashamed to say but.....here it is................................................ ....



a loose hose clamp on one of the fuel lines underneath the Jeep (NEVER LEAKED ANY FUEL).


Bob said not to feel bad. Everyone has a mishap every now and then. He also said that I should not feel bad about spending $600.00 on parts before getting it to him. He said that we now have great running vehicle that shouldn't need anything for quite a while.....AND, I have extra parts!!!

Bob had the Jeep for 3 working days. Fixed it in about 2 but kept it an extra day. Used it to make some parts runs. Short distances, long distances. Really put it through a day of normal paces of what most any vehicle can expect rather then just taking it for a standard road test and callling it good.

We took "Henny" out to Table Mesa on Saturday and ran Lower Terminator and part of Upper and she never once caughed, sputtered, or hesitated. Temperature was perfect, everything. Ran like a raped ape going up and down I-17.

Once again, BIG THANKS to JASON and the guys at AIRPARK for their honesty & integrty and pointing me to Bob.

Anyone needing a Jeep doctor, I know where there is a good one.

One other thing about Bob.....he's into desert racing, has all kinds of vehicles around to include JEEPS. One of his guys even has an old Wagoneer there for sale. It's a project that needs to be finished.

[YJ TG]

Jim, you wanna sell it back, same price, glad you got it fixed.

[ArizonaXJ]

Jim, you wanna sell it back, same price, glad you got it fixed.

I don't think that you could afford what the wife would want for it. You would have to ask her and then have to deal with her on the negotiaions.
She is Hennyeep on the board here.
She's pretty proud of every dent and scratch she has put in it.
So far she has run:
Appetizer, Desoto Mine, Tax collector, Turtle Falls, Lower Scorpion, Firebird, Decapitator, Lower Terminator and few others that slip my mind right now.