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69850 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 9:27am
Subject: Re: Re: New lift...wrenching party?
But what if we dont drink?
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69851 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:31pm
Subject: Re: Club Discount
Not directly from JKS, but 4Wheelers carries JKS and they give us a
discount. Go see Barry.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Mike H." <hiett710@y...> wrote:
> Do we get a club discount from JKS mfg?
>
> Mike H.
69852 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:32pm
Subject: [FS] YJ half doors
Price: $100
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
YJ half doors. Will fit YJ or CJ-7. These were from a fire damaged jeep from up north. Paint is burned, plastic is melted but the steel is not warped. They are straight w/ no dents. Hinges included. $100.00. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69853 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:34pm
Subject: [FS] Stock Ford F350 front springs
Price: $50.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
Stock 2002 Ford F350 front springs. Only about 500 miles before lift kit was installed. $50.00. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69854 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:36pm
Subject: [FS] CJ-7 gas tank complete
Price: $25.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
Stock 1984 CJ-7 gas tank. Includes gas tank, liner, skid plate, filler hoses and sending unit. $25.00. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69855 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:38pm
Subject: [FS] CJ& front fenders cut and tubed.
Price: $100.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
CJ-7 front fenders. Cut and tubed, Strong enough to stand on. Just bolt on in place of stock fenders.
$100.00. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69856 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 9:38am
Subject: Re: Re: Off-road accident & body work cost
you have the right to be.
Anthony C
69857 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:40pm
Subject: [FS] OEM YJ Rear Tinted Windows for Hardtop
Price: 75.00 or best offer or trade for CJ parts
Contact: dlromaine@cableaz.com
O.E.M. YJ Rear Windows
for Hardtop
75.00 or trade for CJ Parts
E-mail Me
Denver Romaine
69858 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:41pm
Subject: [FS] 2002 TJ bikini top bracket, duster & bed cover.
Price: $50.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
TJ windshield bracket for bikini top, rear duster and bed cover. All in excellent cond. $50.00. Will include 4 stock shocks. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69859 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:46pm
Subject: Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
I can't believe how long this writeup took. I probably have 10 hours into it. I couldn't decide what to leave out so I went ahead put it all in :D I think it was worth the effort.
Feedback is appreciated!
Thanks,
Scott K
69860 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:47pm
Subject: [FS] 6" spring under lifted springs
Price: $200.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
These were made for me by Valley Spring and cost $900.00. I mounted them and drove on them for about 1 month until I changed my mind and went to coilovers. They definately improved the ride dramatically. They are all YJ width so you would have to change the front hangers to accept the wider spring. It takes the jeep up to about 28" from the ground to the bottom of the rocker panel on 35" tires. $200. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69861 From: ccgaiser <ccgaiser@h...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:50pm
Subject: Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
Actually, most "reputable" body shops DO buy their parts from the
dealers, unless the insurance company makes them go aftermarket. The
shops hate to use aftermarket parts on new vehicles because they fit
like crap.
Most shops buy their parts at "wholesale" which is anywhere from 5%
over cost to 25% off list price. Then they charge the customer list
price or so for the parts, so they can make some money on the parts
too.
My .02
Chris
66 CJ-5
Wholesale parts guy!
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Siade, Randy" <randy.siade@u...> wrote:
> Paint and body shops do not buy parts from the dealer. They pay way
less for
> the parts then the deal sells them for. I bought a windshield frame
for my
> CJ at a body parts warehouse for around $70.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Edwards [mailto:azcj@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
>
>
> Parts cost from Darner: TJ fender $355 + flare $122 = $477.
> $477 vs. $750 for parts. That's over 50% markup from the cost at
the
> DEALER for me. I'd assume a shop would get a lower price. $800 for
> labor might make sense if they were fixing the dent and prepping
the
> fender for paint. A new fender wouldn't need all that. Just doesn't
> add up. Assuming that's an honest quote, it's no wonder insurance
> rates are so high when shops charge 50+% markup on parts and $800
per
> hour on labor(not including painting) for a dent the size of a half
> dollar and a little paint scratched off of a plastic flare.
>
> -Scott E.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
69862 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 9:58am
Subject: Re: Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
I could get your fender for $117.50 , but they dont carry the fender flare. much better than $355.00.
Anthony Celaya
69863 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:03pm
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ
Stu, John (et al),
Blaine said it's ok :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
mrblaine
member
Registered: May 2001
Posts: 2037
Re: Couple of questions
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to a message posted by StealthTJ on 11-03-2002 03:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blaine, just wanted to check and see if it would be ok, if I had a machine shop here in town run off some of those retainer plate copies that you made for the ZJ rear disk conversion. It sounds like your not be making any more..
I didn't really invent them Fred, I only adapted the Ford MotorSport theory to the Dana 44. What I would do is just duplicate the ring and use doubled up stock retainers. You still have to use longer bolts to hold them on, but a ring is much cheaper to machine. The 9" disc conversion is done with a loose ring like this and the main difference is the bearing retainer is thicker. That's what gave me the idea to make them thicker.
Also, a fab. question. Ever thought of mounting both "lower" and upper rear control arms on top of the axle. The uppers in a triangulate mount, maybe something like the Currie 9" triangulated 9". The "lowers" would then be mount more outboard, towards the end of the axles and on top of the tube also, though much closer to the tube itself. I haven't crawled under the Jeep to look at clearances or anything yet, but was just wondering, fit wise not withstanding, if you've ever thought of it or tried it.
One of the engineers at work that it would be better, if it could be done, for several reasons;
- The triangulation of the uppers allows the removal of the tackbar. Nothing new here.
- Moving all four arms of top of the tube, he thinks, would help a lot with "rear steer".
I don't disagree with the idea or concept, just with your engineers comment on rear steer. That is strictly a function of the length of the arms. The shorter the arms, the tighter the arc the axle swings in. During articulation, if one side is up and the other is down, the arcs are extreme and have the most effect on moving the axle out of being perpendicular to the frame. If you lengthen the effective length of the arms, you open the arcs up to have less effect on perpendicularity to the frame. I do agree with moving them up out of the rocks.
With uppers and "lowers" on top of the tube, it's much easier to keep the arms parallel to each other (lower and upper). It would be easier to keep the apparent length of the uppers and lowers the same (the length of the upper and lower would appear to be the same, or close to it, when viewed from the side of the axle, that is from the hub end, looking towards the other end, even though the physical length of the upper would be longer). Lastly, it'd be easier to keep the "lowers" out of harms way
I asked him about the strength issue, keeping the tube axle tube from wanting to twist, but he said that it doesn't make any difference whether they are mounted on the same "side" of the axle or not. The force that the arms themselves would have to deal with would be the same, as they are now, assuming that the verticle distance between the lower arm mounting joint (axle mount) and the upper arm mounting joint is basically the same. He said that since the uppers can be mounted above the diff ok in a triangulated or wishbone setup now, the lowers should be able to with a bracket that's thick enough.
Any thoughts ??
Best,
Fred
I have often wondered about a way to prove or disprove the forces the arms see when they are at centerline of the tube, above centerline and below. Any way your engineer buddy can explain this to me?
I have had people tell me that if the bolt for the control arm is at centerline, the axle will hop because it can't be controlled as well. I disagree, but can't prove it as of yet. (need to find a way to do that)
I would not sweat parallelism between the arms too much. I would worry more about the step in the bottom of the tub. In order for your arms to be fairly effective, they need a length equal to or slightly longer than the bottom ones. That puts the upper mount on the frame forward of that step and the arm runs into the bottom of that area quite rapidly in a triangulated set-up. (diffs are tall as are the mounts for the arm ends)
The reason we like longer effective length uppers, is to keep the pinion up out of the rocks in extreme stuff a little better. The shorter uppers cause pinion dive.
Hope this helps somewhat.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:)
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: Halverson
To: FredTJ ; Chris Krieg ; Stu Olson
Cc: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ
Fred
If you can get a set made I would be very interested in getting one. Please let me know what you come up with. Cell 602-568-5711
John Halverson
----- Original Message -----
From: FredTJ
To: Chris Krieg ; Stu Olson
Cc: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ
Hey Chris (or Stu, if you have a set lying around still),
Maybe you could take measurements and/or trace 'em on some paper, etc...
Hell, maybe I'll go on and have one of the machine shops here in Tucson (I know some people), fab up a run of 'em. I certainly don't want to pull one of my axles and pull it apart, to get the measurements.
Thanks,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Krieg
To: Stu Olson
Cc: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ
Yup. I think my next mod after my axle swap (axle is at 4 Wheelers now getting an ARB), I'll be putting the rear disks on my TJ. Luckily, I got some of the last Blaine retainer plates (THANKS STU!!).
Chris
On Saturday, November 2, 2002, at 06:54 PM, Stu Olson wrote:
In contrast to the conversion you mentioned, putting the ZJ disc brakes on a TJ is wonderful. The conversion is so easy to do….with the exception of the necessary modified retainer plate (or a spacer ring) that compensates for the thickness of the caliper bracket, it is virtually plug and play. My 35” tires stop like a stock vehicle, in my opinion. The ZJ e-brake drum also works just fine. I bought a pair of ZJ e-brake cables and hooked them up to the TJ actuator.<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
While I have not tried it personally, I’ve had a good friend try the Stainless disc brake kit on his CJ-7. He was COMPLETELY unhappy with it. <>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
Since the Explorer 8.8” disc brakes and the ZJ disc brakes are so similar (some of the e-brake components are interchangeable, such as the shoes), they should work well. I hope Tera works ALL of the bugs out and does not do there typical, IMHO, almost fully engineered kind of upgrade.<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
Stu<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
Stu Olson<>color><>fontfamily>
www.stu-offroad.com<>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
-----Original Message-----
From: cowboy7575@aol.com [mailto:cowboy7575@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 1:35 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ<>smaller><>fontfamily>
<>fontfamily>
It looks like your bolt pattern is the smaller Wrangler bolt pattern, Would this conversion work if you had the Warn 5x5.5 full floaters in the rear ? If so, you would need different rotors or have the ZJ rotors re-drilled. Just a thought or observation. I have the 5x5.5 conversion on mine and used the Warn disc conversion with Caddy calipers, I can tell you the Warn disc conversion sucked on my Wrangler, Warn says you may have to bend the brackets to make them work properly, yes you certainly do but the Caddy calipers are a bad choice but necessary if you want an Ebrake. I went back to drums (but the bigger 10" ones from a ZJ) due to continuing problems with the calipers.
<>smaller><>fontfamily>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<>color>.<>smaller><>fontfamily>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<>color>.<>bigger>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69864 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: RE: Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
I am sure they buy OEM parts but they buy them from the same source the
dealer buys them from.
-----Original Message-----
From: ccgaiser [mailto:ccgaiser@h...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:51 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
Actually, most "reputable" body shops DO buy their parts from the
dealers, unless the insurance company makes them go aftermarket. The
shops hate to use aftermarket parts on new vehicles because they fit
like crap.
Most shops buy their parts at "wholesale" which is anywhere from 5%
over cost to 25% off list price. Then they charge the customer list
price or so for the parts, so they can make some money on the parts
too.
My .02
Chris
66 CJ-5
Wholesale parts guy!
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Siade, Randy" <randy.siade@u...> wrote:
> Paint and body shops do not buy parts from the dealer. They pay way
less for
> the parts then the deal sells them for. I bought a windshield frame
for my
> CJ at a body parts warehouse for around $70.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Edwards [mailto:azcj@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
>
>
> Parts cost from Darner: TJ fender $355 + flare $122 = $477.
> $477 vs. $750 for parts. That's over 50% markup from the cost at
the
> DEALER for me. I'd assume a shop would get a lower price. $800 for
> labor might make sense if they were fixing the dent and prepping
the
> fender for paint. A new fender wouldn't need all that. Just doesn't
> add up. Assuming that's an honest quote, it's no wonder insurance
> rates are so high when shops charge 50+% markup on parts and $800
per
> hour on labor(not including painting) for a dent the size of a half
> dollar and a little paint scratched off of a plastic flare.
>
> -Scott E.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
69865 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Shocks too short
Actually most (on TJ's), broken bar pins are caused by the shock being too long. That is the shock fully compresses and turns into a solid piece ;) as the axle is traveling upwards during stuff, before the bumpstops stop the upward axle travel.
On virtually all TJ's, the shocks are the limiting factor to flex. Take the shocks off almost any of them, and you'll get much more downward flex, like you saw on yours. Check the compressed length of the shocks against the measurement between the shock mounts when the axle is up against the bumpstop.
:)
Fred
69866 From: Nick Gasmena <NickG@4...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Who the hell was that?
lol... dont let the fun noodles fool you! That thing has magnet on top of its roll cage :)
Nick
~~~~ Have an EXCEL-ent Day!! ~~~~
Nick Gasmena - nickg@4x4jeep.net
-----------------------
Http://www.excelir.com/greatrates - Your gateway to Financial Freedom!
Home Office: 602-595-7734 Cell: 602-400-8896
-----------------------
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.4x4jeep.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Speer
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:38 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Who the hell was that?
This is the second day that I have seen this rig. It has yellow bars/pads and some serious mods. I can't tell what the color is cuz it is pretty early in the morning... and there are loads of stickers! SWEET RIG MAN!!!! I waved to ya on the southbound 101 this morn... ya looked pretty damn cold! lets stop for coffee some day!
Sean
97 Stock TJ with mods soon to come.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69867 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:16pm
Subject: RE: Off-road accident & body work cost
Just my opinion but it is thinking like this "then let that be a lesson and get the damage fixed regardless of the cost, even if the cost is BS" that drives insurance costs up. Have a cracked windshield? Let your insurance company pay for a new one and a month of dinners at your favorite restaurant instead of passing a discount to the insurance company.
Just My Opinion.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: chaton602@aol.com [mailto:chaton602@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:23 PM
To: CowBoy7575@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Off-road accident & body work cost
Well, my brotha, if you spend 2000 dollars for a paint job then dude your getting ripped. I've been painting for 14years and I never quoted a job of this nature (which by chance is a quick fix) so much money. I worked for body shops in the past, and the quote for $1500 will cover a full paint job and minor body repair. hell, if you want to spend $1500 on repairs, just pass it over here and I'll have you ready for the world of wheels. I do have to agree with Joe West on this though. If you did the damage, then let that be a lesson and get the damage fixed regardless of the cost, even if the cost is BS. just my added 2 cents...
Anthony Celaya
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69868 From: AzVJC Website <skruize@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:22pm
Subject: [Tech] TJ - How to swap a Cherokee 4 speed auto into a TJ
htt://members.cox.net/aw4swap
Scott Kruize
69869 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:25pm
Subject: Re: Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
Wow! I know who to call when I find my AW4 to swap in!
That is an absolute incredible write up Scott!
BUT, man, that purple really hurts the eyes after a while....
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
>
> I can't believe how long this writeup took. I probably have 10 hours
> into it. I couldn't decide what to leave out so I went ahead put it
all
> in :D I think it was worth the effort.
>
> Feedback is appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott K
69870 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:30pm
Subject: RE: Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
Great job Scott. Way cool. You know people are going to ask you for a write up on you write up!
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:47 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
I can't believe how long this writeup took. I probably have 10 hours into it. I couldn't decide what to leave out so I went ahead put it all in :D I think it was worth the effort.
Feedback is appreciated!
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69871 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:41pm
Subject: Re: Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
First... where in the WORLD did you get that gay pink background???
Second... VERY nice writeup Scott... VERY NICE!!!
Isn't it amazing how long it takes to document an extensive modification like yours? A good example is Chris Krieg's writeup on the D300 or my writeup on my instrument cluster modification... it almost takes as long to document it as it did to do the actual modification!
Good Job Scott!!!
(Except for the gay pink color)
Joe West
Scott Kruize wrote:
http://members.cox.net/aw4swap I can't believe how long this writeup took. I probably have 10 hours into it. I couldn't decide what to leave out so I went ahead put it all in :D I think it was worth the effort. Feedback is appreciated!Thanks,Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69872 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 10:47am
Subject: Re: Off-road accident & body work cost
The $2000 was a paint job on the entire vehicle, not a repair.
69873 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:47pm
Subject: [FS] STOCK YJ SIDE STEPS
Price: FREE TO GOOD HOME
Contact: COLE MOHR
THESE ARE THE STOCK STEPS THAT BOLT ON TO THE ROCKER PANELS.
COLE MOHR
69874 From: Mike Elrod <odashee1@h...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:49pm
Subject: Fwd: deer vs. durango
Idon't think the deer or the durango actually won this match! But, better a
dodge than a jeep!
Mike Elrod
'97 TJ
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69850 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 9:27am
Subject: Re: Re: New lift...wrenching party?
But what if we dont drink?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
69851 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:31pm
Subject: Re: Club Discount
Not directly from JKS, but 4Wheelers carries JKS and they give us a
discount. Go see Barry.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Mike H." <hiett710@y...> wrote:
> Do we get a club discount from JKS mfg?
>
> Mike H.
69852 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:32pm
Subject: [FS] YJ half doors
Price: $100
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
YJ half doors. Will fit YJ or CJ-7. These were from a fire damaged jeep from up north. Paint is burned, plastic is melted but the steel is not warped. They are straight w/ no dents. Hinges included. $100.00. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69853 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:34pm
Subject: [FS] Stock Ford F350 front springs
Price: $50.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
Stock 2002 Ford F350 front springs. Only about 500 miles before lift kit was installed. $50.00. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69854 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:36pm
Subject: [FS] CJ-7 gas tank complete
Price: $25.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
Stock 1984 CJ-7 gas tank. Includes gas tank, liner, skid plate, filler hoses and sending unit. $25.00. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69855 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:38pm
Subject: [FS] CJ& front fenders cut and tubed.
Price: $100.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
CJ-7 front fenders. Cut and tubed, Strong enough to stand on. Just bolt on in place of stock fenders.
$100.00. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69856 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 9:38am
Subject: Re: Re: Off-road accident & body work cost
you have the right to be.
Anthony C
69857 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:40pm
Subject: [FS] OEM YJ Rear Tinted Windows for Hardtop
Price: 75.00 or best offer or trade for CJ parts
Contact: dlromaine@cableaz.com
O.E.M. YJ Rear Windows
for Hardtop
75.00 or trade for CJ Parts
E-mail Me
Denver Romaine
69858 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:41pm
Subject: [FS] 2002 TJ bikini top bracket, duster & bed cover.
Price: $50.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
TJ windshield bracket for bikini top, rear duster and bed cover. All in excellent cond. $50.00. Will include 4 stock shocks. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69859 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:46pm
Subject: Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
I can't believe how long this writeup took. I probably have 10 hours into it. I couldn't decide what to leave out so I went ahead put it all in :D I think it was worth the effort.
Feedback is appreciated!
Thanks,
Scott K
69860 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:47pm
Subject: [FS] 6" spring under lifted springs
Price: $200.00
Contact: gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
These were made for me by Valley Spring and cost $900.00. I mounted them and drove on them for about 1 month until I changed my mind and went to coilovers. They definately improved the ride dramatically. They are all YJ width so you would have to change the front hangers to accept the wider spring. It takes the jeep up to about 28" from the ground to the bottom of the rocker panel on 35" tires. $200. gary@hdesert.com or 623-465-0576
69861 From: ccgaiser <ccgaiser@h...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 2:50pm
Subject: Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
Actually, most "reputable" body shops DO buy their parts from the
dealers, unless the insurance company makes them go aftermarket. The
shops hate to use aftermarket parts on new vehicles because they fit
like crap.
Most shops buy their parts at "wholesale" which is anywhere from 5%
over cost to 25% off list price. Then they charge the customer list
price or so for the parts, so they can make some money on the parts
too.
My .02
Chris
66 CJ-5
Wholesale parts guy!
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Siade, Randy" <randy.siade@u...> wrote:
> Paint and body shops do not buy parts from the dealer. They pay way
less for
> the parts then the deal sells them for. I bought a windshield frame
for my
> CJ at a body parts warehouse for around $70.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Edwards [mailto:azcj@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
>
>
> Parts cost from Darner: TJ fender $355 + flare $122 = $477.
> $477 vs. $750 for parts. That's over 50% markup from the cost at
the
> DEALER for me. I'd assume a shop would get a lower price. $800 for
> labor might make sense if they were fixing the dent and prepping
the
> fender for paint. A new fender wouldn't need all that. Just doesn't
> add up. Assuming that's an honest quote, it's no wonder insurance
> rates are so high when shops charge 50+% markup on parts and $800
per
> hour on labor(not including painting) for a dent the size of a half
> dollar and a little paint scratched off of a plastic flare.
>
> -Scott E.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
69862 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 9:58am
Subject: Re: Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
I could get your fender for $117.50 , but they dont carry the fender flare. much better than $355.00.
Anthony Celaya
69863 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:03pm
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ
Stu, John (et al),
Blaine said it's ok :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
mrblaine
member
Registered: May 2001
Posts: 2037
Re: Couple of questions
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to a message posted by StealthTJ on 11-03-2002 03:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blaine, just wanted to check and see if it would be ok, if I had a machine shop here in town run off some of those retainer plate copies that you made for the ZJ rear disk conversion. It sounds like your not be making any more..
I didn't really invent them Fred, I only adapted the Ford MotorSport theory to the Dana 44. What I would do is just duplicate the ring and use doubled up stock retainers. You still have to use longer bolts to hold them on, but a ring is much cheaper to machine. The 9" disc conversion is done with a loose ring like this and the main difference is the bearing retainer is thicker. That's what gave me the idea to make them thicker.
Also, a fab. question. Ever thought of mounting both "lower" and upper rear control arms on top of the axle. The uppers in a triangulate mount, maybe something like the Currie 9" triangulated 9". The "lowers" would then be mount more outboard, towards the end of the axles and on top of the tube also, though much closer to the tube itself. I haven't crawled under the Jeep to look at clearances or anything yet, but was just wondering, fit wise not withstanding, if you've ever thought of it or tried it.
One of the engineers at work that it would be better, if it could be done, for several reasons;
- The triangulation of the uppers allows the removal of the tackbar. Nothing new here.
- Moving all four arms of top of the tube, he thinks, would help a lot with "rear steer".
I don't disagree with the idea or concept, just with your engineers comment on rear steer. That is strictly a function of the length of the arms. The shorter the arms, the tighter the arc the axle swings in. During articulation, if one side is up and the other is down, the arcs are extreme and have the most effect on moving the axle out of being perpendicular to the frame. If you lengthen the effective length of the arms, you open the arcs up to have less effect on perpendicularity to the frame. I do agree with moving them up out of the rocks.
With uppers and "lowers" on top of the tube, it's much easier to keep the arms parallel to each other (lower and upper). It would be easier to keep the apparent length of the uppers and lowers the same (the length of the upper and lower would appear to be the same, or close to it, when viewed from the side of the axle, that is from the hub end, looking towards the other end, even though the physical length of the upper would be longer). Lastly, it'd be easier to keep the "lowers" out of harms way
I asked him about the strength issue, keeping the tube axle tube from wanting to twist, but he said that it doesn't make any difference whether they are mounted on the same "side" of the axle or not. The force that the arms themselves would have to deal with would be the same, as they are now, assuming that the verticle distance between the lower arm mounting joint (axle mount) and the upper arm mounting joint is basically the same. He said that since the uppers can be mounted above the diff ok in a triangulated or wishbone setup now, the lowers should be able to with a bracket that's thick enough.
Any thoughts ??
Best,
Fred
I have often wondered about a way to prove or disprove the forces the arms see when they are at centerline of the tube, above centerline and below. Any way your engineer buddy can explain this to me?
I have had people tell me that if the bolt for the control arm is at centerline, the axle will hop because it can't be controlled as well. I disagree, but can't prove it as of yet. (need to find a way to do that)
I would not sweat parallelism between the arms too much. I would worry more about the step in the bottom of the tub. In order for your arms to be fairly effective, they need a length equal to or slightly longer than the bottom ones. That puts the upper mount on the frame forward of that step and the arm runs into the bottom of that area quite rapidly in a triangulated set-up. (diffs are tall as are the mounts for the arm ends)
The reason we like longer effective length uppers, is to keep the pinion up out of the rocks in extreme stuff a little better. The shorter uppers cause pinion dive.
Hope this helps somewhat.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:)
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: Halverson
To: FredTJ ; Chris Krieg ; Stu Olson
Cc: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ
Fred
If you can get a set made I would be very interested in getting one. Please let me know what you come up with. Cell 602-568-5711
John Halverson
----- Original Message -----
From: FredTJ
To: Chris Krieg ; Stu Olson
Cc: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ
Hey Chris (or Stu, if you have a set lying around still),
Maybe you could take measurements and/or trace 'em on some paper, etc...
Hell, maybe I'll go on and have one of the machine shops here in Tucson (I know some people), fab up a run of 'em. I certainly don't want to pull one of my axles and pull it apart, to get the measurements.
Thanks,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Krieg
To: Stu Olson
Cc: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ
Yup. I think my next mod after my axle swap (axle is at 4 Wheelers now getting an ARB), I'll be putting the rear disks on my TJ. Luckily, I got some of the last Blaine retainer plates (THANKS STU!!).
Chris
On Saturday, November 2, 2002, at 06:54 PM, Stu Olson wrote:
In contrast to the conversion you mentioned, putting the ZJ disc brakes on a TJ is wonderful. The conversion is so easy to do….with the exception of the necessary modified retainer plate (or a spacer ring) that compensates for the thickness of the caliper bracket, it is virtually plug and play. My 35” tires stop like a stock vehicle, in my opinion. The ZJ e-brake drum also works just fine. I bought a pair of ZJ e-brake cables and hooked them up to the TJ actuator.<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
While I have not tried it personally, I’ve had a good friend try the Stainless disc brake kit on his CJ-7. He was COMPLETELY unhappy with it. <>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
Since the Explorer 8.8” disc brakes and the ZJ disc brakes are so similar (some of the e-brake components are interchangeable, such as the shoes), they should work well. I hope Tera works ALL of the bugs out and does not do there typical, IMHO, almost fully engineered kind of upgrade.<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
Stu<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
Stu Olson<>color><>fontfamily>
www.stu-offroad.com<>color><>fontfamily>
<>smaller><>color><>fontfamily>
-----Original Message-----
From: cowboy7575@aol.com [mailto:cowboy7575@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 1:35 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Subject: RE: [Tech] 2000 TJ - Rear Discs for D44-00TJ<>smaller><>fontfamily>
<>fontfamily>
It looks like your bolt pattern is the smaller Wrangler bolt pattern, Would this conversion work if you had the Warn 5x5.5 full floaters in the rear ? If so, you would need different rotors or have the ZJ rotors re-drilled. Just a thought or observation. I have the 5x5.5 conversion on mine and used the Warn disc conversion with Caddy calipers, I can tell you the Warn disc conversion sucked on my Wrangler, Warn says you may have to bend the brackets to make them work properly, yes you certainly do but the Caddy calipers are a bad choice but necessary if you want an Ebrake. I went back to drums (but the bigger 10" ones from a ZJ) due to continuing problems with the calipers.
<>smaller><>fontfamily>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<>color>.<>smaller><>fontfamily>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<>color>.<>bigger>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69864 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: RE: Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
I am sure they buy OEM parts but they buy them from the same source the
dealer buys them from.
-----Original Message-----
From: ccgaiser [mailto:ccgaiser@h...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:51 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
Actually, most "reputable" body shops DO buy their parts from the
dealers, unless the insurance company makes them go aftermarket. The
shops hate to use aftermarket parts on new vehicles because they fit
like crap.
Most shops buy their parts at "wholesale" which is anywhere from 5%
over cost to 25% off list price. Then they charge the customer list
price or so for the parts, so they can make some money on the parts
too.
My .02
Chris
66 CJ-5
Wholesale parts guy!
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Siade, Randy" <randy.siade@u...> wrote:
> Paint and body shops do not buy parts from the dealer. They pay way
less for
> the parts then the deal sells them for. I bought a windshield frame
for my
> CJ at a body parts warehouse for around $70.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Edwards [mailto:azcj@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Offroad accident - parts prices much different
>
>
> Parts cost from Darner: TJ fender $355 + flare $122 = $477.
> $477 vs. $750 for parts. That's over 50% markup from the cost at
the
> DEALER for me. I'd assume a shop would get a lower price. $800 for
> labor might make sense if they were fixing the dent and prepping
the
> fender for paint. A new fender wouldn't need all that. Just doesn't
> add up. Assuming that's an honest quote, it's no wonder insurance
> rates are so high when shops charge 50+% markup on parts and $800
per
> hour on labor(not including painting) for a dent the size of a half
> dollar and a little paint scratched off of a plastic flare.
>
> -Scott E.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
69865 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Shocks too short
Actually most (on TJ's), broken bar pins are caused by the shock being too long. That is the shock fully compresses and turns into a solid piece ;) as the axle is traveling upwards during stuff, before the bumpstops stop the upward axle travel.
On virtually all TJ's, the shocks are the limiting factor to flex. Take the shocks off almost any of them, and you'll get much more downward flex, like you saw on yours. Check the compressed length of the shocks against the measurement between the shock mounts when the axle is up against the bumpstop.
:)
Fred
69866 From: Nick Gasmena <NickG@4...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Who the hell was that?
lol... dont let the fun noodles fool you! That thing has magnet on top of its roll cage :)
Nick
~~~~ Have an EXCEL-ent Day!! ~~~~
Nick Gasmena - nickg@4x4jeep.net
-----------------------
Http://www.excelir.com/greatrates - Your gateway to Financial Freedom!
Home Office: 602-595-7734 Cell: 602-400-8896
-----------------------
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.4x4jeep.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Speer
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:38 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Who the hell was that?
This is the second day that I have seen this rig. It has yellow bars/pads and some serious mods. I can't tell what the color is cuz it is pretty early in the morning... and there are loads of stickers! SWEET RIG MAN!!!! I waved to ya on the southbound 101 this morn... ya looked pretty damn cold! lets stop for coffee some day!
Sean
97 Stock TJ with mods soon to come.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69867 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:16pm
Subject: RE: Off-road accident & body work cost
Just my opinion but it is thinking like this "then let that be a lesson and get the damage fixed regardless of the cost, even if the cost is BS" that drives insurance costs up. Have a cracked windshield? Let your insurance company pay for a new one and a month of dinners at your favorite restaurant instead of passing a discount to the insurance company.
Just My Opinion.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: chaton602@aol.com [mailto:chaton602@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:23 PM
To: CowBoy7575@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Off-road accident & body work cost
Well, my brotha, if you spend 2000 dollars for a paint job then dude your getting ripped. I've been painting for 14years and I never quoted a job of this nature (which by chance is a quick fix) so much money. I worked for body shops in the past, and the quote for $1500 will cover a full paint job and minor body repair. hell, if you want to spend $1500 on repairs, just pass it over here and I'll have you ready for the world of wheels. I do have to agree with Joe West on this though. If you did the damage, then let that be a lesson and get the damage fixed regardless of the cost, even if the cost is BS. just my added 2 cents...
Anthony Celaya
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69868 From: AzVJC Website <skruize@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:22pm
Subject: [Tech] TJ - How to swap a Cherokee 4 speed auto into a TJ
htt://members.cox.net/aw4swap
Scott Kruize
69869 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:25pm
Subject: Re: Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
Wow! I know who to call when I find my AW4 to swap in!
That is an absolute incredible write up Scott!
BUT, man, that purple really hurts the eyes after a while....
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
>
> I can't believe how long this writeup took. I probably have 10 hours
> into it. I couldn't decide what to leave out so I went ahead put it
all
> in :D I think it was worth the effort.
>
> Feedback is appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott K
69870 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:30pm
Subject: RE: Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
Great job Scott. Way cool. You know people are going to ask you for a write up on you write up!
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:47 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
I can't believe how long this writeup took. I probably have 10 hours into it. I couldn't decide what to leave out so I went ahead put it all in :D I think it was worth the effort.
Feedback is appreciated!
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69871 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:41pm
Subject: Re: Writeup is done! http://members.cox.net/aw4swap
First... where in the WORLD did you get that gay pink background???
Second... VERY nice writeup Scott... VERY NICE!!!
Isn't it amazing how long it takes to document an extensive modification like yours? A good example is Chris Krieg's writeup on the D300 or my writeup on my instrument cluster modification... it almost takes as long to document it as it did to do the actual modification!
Good Job Scott!!!
(Except for the gay pink color)
Joe West
Scott Kruize wrote:
http://members.cox.net/aw4swap I can't believe how long this writeup took. I probably have 10 hours into it. I couldn't decide what to leave out so I went ahead put it all in :D I think it was worth the effort. Feedback is appreciated!Thanks,Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
69872 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 10:47am
Subject: Re: Off-road accident & body work cost
The $2000 was a paint job on the entire vehicle, not a repair.
69873 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:47pm
Subject: [FS] STOCK YJ SIDE STEPS
Price: FREE TO GOOD HOME
Contact: COLE MOHR
THESE ARE THE STOCK STEPS THAT BOLT ON TO THE ROCKER PANELS.
COLE MOHR
69874 From: Mike Elrod <odashee1@h...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:49pm
Subject: Fwd: deer vs. durango
Idon't think the deer or the durango actually won this match! But, better a
dodge than a jeep!
Mike Elrod
'97 TJ
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