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69675 From: Brian Peletz <big86er@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 0:02am
Subject: Re: Onboard air


Has anyone ever tried using an old emissions air pump
to fill a tank. I know they flow a fair amount of air
and was wondering how much pressure they can put out.
Am I correct that they have a clutch to enguage them
that can be used to turn it on and off by a pressure
switch?? What an interesting new project...


Brian

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69676 From: Mike Golden <mgolden@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 3:48am
Subject: Re: 88 XJ Tranny shifting problem


> 1) Check the fuse to the TCM. If the tranny computer doesn't have any power then it can't turn the shift solenoids on or off can it?

BTW, if you didn't figure this out, there is a fuse in the fusebox for
this, but there is also an inline fuse taped to the wires going to the
TCM under the glove box. My inline one randomly blew several times a
couple months ago, but haven't had any problems since. I think the
problem was the resistor inline with the fuse wasn't insulated very well
and I think it was hitting on something. You might check that.

--
What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth? Judging from realistic
simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog,
we can assume it will be pretty bad. --- Dave Barry


69677 From: azdesertrhino <azdesertrhino@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 4:39am
Subject: Garmin GPS Topo Maps


I screwed up and bought Garmin Topo Mapsource for my Magellan GPS.
Needless to say, it doesn't work. (Yea, I get the dumbass award
today.) Unfortunately, I didn't realize my screw up until I had
already loaded the maps in my computer. I contacted the online store
I bought them from. No response, which, it's not their problem,
because I screwed up. Anyhow, anyone want to make an offer, trade for
Magellan topo maps (yea, like somebody else could screw up this bad).
Any input from anyone? You can E-mail me off group.
Thanks
Jim
Tucson 76 CJ-5


69678 From: Jonathan Moore <jm9n@u...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 4:50am
Subject: Re: Flasher relay


Ben,

I found on my 97 TJ, if you pull the fuse (#4?) so that you interior light doesn't come on and it won't beep at you with the doors off, the emergency flashers won't work. A friend of mine said it did the same thing on his 98. But I have had to do as Chris said turn them on and off a few times and then they work with the fuse in of course.

Jonathan

At 03:16 PM 11/4/02 -0700, Ben McMurtry wrote:

My flashers are not working in my 97 tj and I was told it was probaly a fault with the flasher relay. When the lights are on all flashers light up so a bulb is not blown. I was told it was behind the dash and when I got it off I can not locate it. Any help (and or pictures/links) would be great.

Thanks,

Ben
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

69679 From: azredrocker <gotrox@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 4:52am
Subject: Re: Archeologists On Lower Woodpecker


HEHEHE!!!!
GO SIERRA CLUBBERS!!

Sorry, I couldn't control myself ;~)

Neal Han****,
ARC

************************************************** ********************
Say what you mean and mean what you say, the people that matter don't
mind and the people that mind don't matter.

Dr. Suess
************************************************** ********************




--- In az_vjc@y..., "flatfenderman2000" <cnd4ever@g...> wrote:
> I have to wonder how all the petroglyphs in the area have managed
to
> survive for the last 800 yeas with out the intervention of groups
> like those encountered on LWP. Oh my GOD, what if it rains and that
> canyon turns into a raging river? All the evidence against you
nasty
> poluting rock crawlers will be washed away!
>
> I'll I can say is pray for rain folks, but it may already be too
late.
>
> Chris L.
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...> wrote:
> > Actually the Archeologists were of the senior variety as opposed
to
> > students and a little hypocritical. They were pleasant for the
most
> > part, but one moment were telling us were should not drive on the
> rocks
> > and the next second were gathered around, running across the
rocks
> and
> > vegetation to take pictures of the jeeps climbing. Everybody
should
> > clean up after themselves, but we shouldn't all be punished for
the
> > failings of a few. Unfortunately, there will always be those who
> don't
> > care, and have no concern for anyone but themselves. All we can
do
> is
> > set the best example we can, do things the right way, pickup up
> after
> > ourselves and always tread lightly. Hopefully, someday these
groups
> > will come to realize we are not the enemy.
> >
> > My two cents.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sedonacowgirl [mailto:cowgirl@s...]
> > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:28 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Archeologists On Lower Woodpecker
> >
> >
> > Howdy! Nothing like being falsely accused to ruin an otherwise
> > lovely day, huh? Probably once, that archeologist saw one Jeeper
> do
> > something dumb, if they ever saw anything at all. Just like
> > everything else, sometimes it is just one idiot in a group who
> ruins
> > it for everyone.
> >
> > What aggravates me is what you saw: they were tramping all over
> the
> > rocks and vegetation, but looking down their noses at you. I am
> > willing to bet that those were student archeologists, full of
self-
> > righteousness. It sounds like they were the uninformed
hypocrits.
> > Next time ask them if they know what microbiotic crust is, or the
> > TREAD Lightly rules...
> >
> > I guess this fires me up because I had my own unpleasant
encounter
> > this weekend, the first of its kind that I have ever had. I was
> > doing a Broken Arrow tour. I had just gotten to the trailhead,
> when
> > a group of mountain bikers came flying by us. One of the women
> > shouted right into the Jeep as she flew by: "polluters!" I was
> > stunned, and uncharacteristically speechless.
> >
> > First, I have never had any unpleasant brushes with the public
> while
> > in a yellow Jeep (Pink Jeeps, yes, but not regular people).
> Second,
> > my retrofitted 2002 Sahara produces less emissions that her
> digestive
> > system. Third, I doubt that she arrived in Sedona in a solar
> powered
> > car, or that her high-tech bike and clothing was produced in an
> > emission-free factory. In fact, she probably drove a volkswagon
> that
> > smokes.
> >
> > In reflection, she probably just had an unpleasant interlude with
a
> > Pink Jeep on the trail, and I was there to receive HER
> frustration.
> >
> > My point is, people seem very quick to judge and jump to
> > conclusions. Everyone is very touchy about public land these
days,
> > and rightfully so...archeologists, bikers, and Jeepers, alike,
are
> > all worried about losing access to their beloved trails and
lands.
> >
> > The challenge I want to put to the group is: How can we bring
> mutual
> > understanding to all of these different groups that we all want
the
> > same thing: to protect and enjoy our public lands. We all are so
> > busy fighting each other that we lose sight of the fact that it
is
> > the policies of the Forest Service and BLM that we should be
> worried
> > about. I can't count how many Jeep trails have been shut down by
> the
> > Sedona Ranger District in the last two years. Meanwhile, they are
> > building another golf course...
> >
> > I know that this is a little heavy for Monday morning, but...
> >
> > Happy trails!
> >
> > Nena
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Dan Coley" <crawlintj@y...> wrote:
> > > Halfway through Lower Woodpecker (at the first major crack)
today
> > > there are about a dozen people with clipboards climbing around
> the
> > > canyon walls, doing mappings of the paintings on the rocks.
> > Needless
> > > to say I got a bit of lip from them about us "driving on the
> > > paintings" and them wanting to get them mapped before the area
is
> > > closed because of four wheelers.
> > >
> > > The fact that there was quite a bit of oil on the rocks (for
> quite
> > a
> > > few yards) from someone that "lost their oil pan" (according to
> one
> > > of them) and didn't clean up their mess really didn't help
> either.
> > I
> > > personally picked up some trash off the trail though (although
I
> > tend
> > > to do that anyways).
> > >
> > > I tried to explain that a majority of us are responsible
> wheelers,
> > do
> > > not destroy vegetation, and are not out to ruin the land.
> Somehow
> > I
> > > got the impression that they think our jeep bodies are stronger
> > than
> > > the rocks we rub against, and are destroying them.
> > >
> > > I'm not saying either party was right, we both have the legal
> right
> > > to be where we were, it's just that they hiked up to where they
> > > where, and witnessed what could be perceived as us "damaging"
the
> > > land, in their eyes.
> > >
> > > Now I didn't start an argument, but the truth is they were
> actually
> > > climbing and walking around on the rocks and walls, actually
> where
> > > there was existing vegetation....
> > >
> > > However, I am thankful that they weren't out there on the
Friday
> > > night of the Jamboree to witness all the drunken idiots
throwing
> > > their beer cans all around.
> > >
> > > I've only been wheeling those trails regularly for a year or so
> > now,
> > > and have never seen them out there before.
> > >
> > > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


69680 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:06am
Subject: RE: Onboard air


Brian,

They cannot put out much pressure... maybe a few pounds at most would be my
guess. They are not engaged with a clutch, but are always on since they are
hard driven from a pulley. Interesting idea; but it would never work... you
could make a low pressure pump (to inflate an air mattress) out of it but it
wouldn't have enough pressure to inflate a tire.

Joe West

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Peletz [mailto:big86er@y...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:02 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Onboard air

Has anyone ever tried using an old emissions air pump
to fill a tank. I know they flow a fair amount of air
and was wondering how much pressure they can put out.
Am I correct that they have a clutch to enguage them
that can be used to turn it on and off by a pressure
switch?? What an interesting new project...


Brian

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


69681 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:07am
Subject: RE: Onboard air


DOH! My bad. Pulley on the alternator not starter.

Joey K
93YJ




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe W [mailto:arizonajeep@c...]
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 10:05 PM
> To: joey@j...; 'Lachlan'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Onboard air
>
>
> Pulley for the starter???
> Say what?
>
> Oh... I got it! When you want to run your OBA, you crank
> your starter and it drives your York... wow... that must be
> some serpentine belt you got going there. <grin>
>
> Just wanted to make you smile Joey...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:51 PM
> To: 'Lachlan'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Onboard air
>
> Lachlan,
> The guy you want to talk to is Roger Thomas I think he got
> quite a bit of stuff from Brad Kilby. I kinda modeled my set
> up after Roger's. The only thing I bought from Kilby was the
> pulley for the starter though. This pulley adds a v-belt to
> run the compressor.
>
>
>


69682 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:19am
Subject: RE: re: onboard air


CO2 is great. But it does get expensive after awhile. Especially if you have larger tires. If you compare the cost of doing a good York setup to the CO2 tank, my York will be much cheaper in the long run. My York setup with tank, fittings, quick connects, hose, bracket, belt, pressure switch, pulley (on the alternator :), and miscellaneous parts was about $150. If you buy a CO2 setup for this much I am already saving money.

Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: cowboy7575@aol.com [mailto:cowboy7575@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 10:27 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] re: onboard air


One of the guys on the 10-21 Broken Arrow run (I think his name was John, he drove a red YJ) had a nice set up using a Co2 Tank. Other than the cost of the tank and fittings, it costs $5 to fill it up each time and holds more than enough air to fill 4 tires.......seems to me that this is not only a more economical set up but easier to install (yeah, strap the bottle to your roll bar or rack). He said that he has been running with it for a while and loves it.

Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



69683 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:27am
Subject: [FS] TJ Tire mounted bike rack


Price: $30 OBO

Contact: Michael Kinnaird 602-722-6583

Brand new never been used lock and keys included, was bought for 97 TJ for mounting on the spare tire. Holds two bikes. Mounts with bolts to center of wheel not with straps.

Michael Kinnaird


69684 From: Matt aka Machew <wishmaaker@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:28am
Subject: R/C Nitro Tempest Gladiator MT 4WD


Contact Info:
wishmaaker@y...
Asking Price:
300.00
1/10 R/C NITRO Tempest Gladiator MT 4WD
1+HP High Performance M-16 Nitro motor produces speeds in excess
of 45 MPH!


Wheelbase: 10.18"
Height 4.75"
Width 7.50"
Weight: 55 Oz

Dodge Body

Painted and decaled
Shaft drive
Adjustable 2 speed transmission w/ Break
Delrin gears Complete with full ball bearings
Heavy-duty aluminum titanium colored adjustable oil-filled
shocks w/ powdered coated springs
Fully adjustable front and rear anti-roll bars
Fully adjustable turnbuckles and steering links
Fully adjustable camber and ride height
Fully mounted & glued off-road monster truck tires on Alumanim
Wheels

Motor Specifications

Displacement: 2.6c.c. Bore: 15mm Stroke: 14.0mm Output: 1+HP @
33,000 RPM
Weight: 254g
Dual ball bearing supported crankshaft
True chrome ABC piston/sleeve technology
Competition slide-valve, twin-needle carburetor
High polished aluminum tuned NEO exhaust system
2-channel pistol grip radio system & Servos

Like new other then a few marks on the body. Ran long enough to
break in the motor (3 tanks).

Really FAST! and FUN! includes Glo Plug and 500cc Fuel bottle.


69685 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:30am
Subject: [FS] Auto Ramps


Price: $20 OBO

Contact: Michael Kinnaird 602-722-6583

Barley used auto ramps. Drive up and park your car and crawl underneath. No jacks or Jackstands required. My jeep doesn't like them any more, they gotta go! In great shape.

Michael Kinnaird


69686 From: Matt aka Machew <wishmaaker@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:33am
Subject: 2001 Honda XR50R dirt bike


Contact Info:
wishmaaker@y...
Asking Price:
$1000.00 obo
2001 Honda XR50R dirt bike Like new maybe 2 hours on the
bike. includes THH Helmet, Thor jersey,
Thor clear chest plate, Thor gloves... And a set of
training wheels go with the bike.


69687 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:43am
Subject: Election


First thing  Get out there and VOTE

All of the belly-aching we do at least you can do is vote to give yourself the privilege to belly-ache.

Second  Does this affect us and what are some of our opinions?

PROP. 101: state lands

A yes vote will permit the exchange of state lands for other public lands if it is in the best interests of the state land trust, it conserves open space on trust lands, and appraisals show lands received and projected income will equal or exceed that of the state lands.

A no vote will not permit the change of state lands for other public lands.

Excerpts from the arguments for Prop. 101:

The measure will give Arizonans an opportunity to preserve open space and increase funding for education. Currently, there are no safeguards to protect some of the most beautiful places in Arizona from being purchased by developers and turned into parking lots and shopping malls. Prop. 101 will allow public-to-public land exchanges, so the state can trade trust land for other public land of equal or greater value. The measure provides many safeguards to ensure that any exchanges are in Arizona's best interests. Public hearings would have to be held. Money will go to public education.

Excerpts from the arguments against Prop. 101:

The measure does not ensure conservation of the land, and it does not guarantee adequate public review and comment opportunities. Land exchanges should be subject to a full environmental impact analysis and a full public review. Prop. 101 is harmful to broad-based efforts to reform state trust land policy. The first thing that would happen is that a land exchange developed by Gov. Jane Hull would be implemented, making possible the development of 200,000 acres near the Grand Canyon. Prop. 101 would not ensure conservation of that or other state land and could lead to more unmanaged growth and sprawl.

Thanks

Joe Kearney

Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com




69688 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:57am
Subject: RE: Onboard air


If you need a tank I have one you can have for $30.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lachlan [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:35 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Onboard air


I need to get set up with some on board air, and I have checked
out Kilby's site. My question is kind of vague, but has anyone
bought stuff from Kilby and gotten everything they needed from him,
or should I buy just the mounting bracket, compressor and pulley from
him and get all of my fittings and tank, pressure switch, guage, etc.
from a local shop? It seems like a bracket for $20 and a compressor
(new) for $190, and pulley/clutch for $110 makes the rest of the set-
up get kind of spendy by the time it's all added up. It's time to
get rigged up with air, but how should I do it in my '98 2.5L TJ?
Thanks for any help or advice.

Lachlan




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


69689 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 5:59am
Subject: RE: SWR tuning help


I have one. I will try to remember to bring it with me. Your firestick will
be easy to tune.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lachlan [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:24 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] SWR tuning help


Is anyone that has a SWR meter going to be at the Coves? I need
to tune my new Firestick, and don't have a meter, (or know how to use
one, for that matter).

Lachlan




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


69690 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 6:01am
Subject: RE: Onboard air


You can not get much pressure out of an emissions air pump. They where not
designed for that.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Peletz [mailto:big86er@y...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:02 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Onboard air


Has anyone ever tried using an old emissions air pump
to fill a tank. I know they flow a fair amount of air
and was wondering how much pressure they can put out.
Am I correct that they have a clutch to enguage them
that can be used to turn it on and off by a pressure
switch?? What an interesting new project...


Brian

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


69691 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 6:14am
Subject: RE: Re: Cleaning up after a trail ride !?!?!#@$!#


Thats how I clean my XJ. If it doesn't rain, then it's not dirty enough.
When God gets tired of looking at my dirty *** truck he will wash it. LOL


Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813



-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Rafferty [mailto:like2drivemycj5@y...]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 4:43 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Cleaning up after a trail ride !?!?!#@$!#



I just leave the top off and let the rain clean everything off, if it
doesn't rain I assume it doesnt need to be cleaned.

Scott R




_____

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69692 From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 6:47am
Subject: Re: Election


I wasn't clear on how to vote on this one until I found out that
Sierra Club was against it.
Larry

--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe-CJ7" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> First thing - Get out there and VOTE
> All of the belly-aching we do at least you can do is vote to give
> yourself the privilege to belly-ache.
>
> Second - Does this affect us and what are some of our opinions?
> PROP. 101: state lands
> A yes vote will permit the exchange of state lands for other public
> lands if it is in the best interests of the state land trust, it
> conserves open space on trust lands, and appraisals show lands
received
> and projected income will equal or exceed that of the state lands.
> A no vote will not permit the change of state lands for other public
> lands.
> Excerpts from the arguments for Prop. 101:
> The measure will give Arizonans an opportunity to preserve open
space
> and increase funding for education. Currently, there are no
safeguards
> to protect some of the most beautiful places in Arizona from being
> purchased by developers and turned into parking lots and shopping
malls.
> Prop. 101 will allow public-to-public land exchanges, so the state
can
> trade trust land for other public land of equal or greater value.
The
> measure provides many safeguards to ensure that any exchanges are in
> Arizona's best interests. Public hearings would have to be held.
Money
> will go to public education.
> Excerpts from the arguments against Prop. 101:
> The measure does not ensure conservation of the land, and it does
not
> guarantee adequate public review and comment opportunities. Land
> exchanges should be subject to a full environmental impact analysis
and
> a full public review. Prop. 101 is harmful to broad-based efforts to
> reform state trust land policy. The first thing that would happen is
> that a land exchange developed by Gov. Jane Hull would be
implemented,
> making possible the development of 200,000 acres near the Grand
Canyon.
> Prop. 101 would not ensure conservation of that or other state land
and
> could lead to more unmanaged growth and sprawl.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...


69693 From: rob holmes <rob_c_holmes@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 6:48am
Subject: Re: Election


Thank you Joe.

rob

--- Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> First thing - Get out there and VOTE
> All of the belly-aching we do at least you can do is
> vote to give
> yourself the privilege to belly-ache.
>
> Second - Does this affect us and what are some of
> our opinions?
> PROP. 101: state lands
> A yes vote will permit the exchange of state lands
> for other public
> lands if it is in the best interests of the state
> land trust, it
> conserves open space on trust lands, and appraisals
> show lands received
> and projected income will equal or exceed that of
> the state lands.
> A no vote will not permit the change of state lands
> for other public
> lands.
> Excerpts from the arguments for Prop. 101:
> The measure will give Arizonans an opportunity to
> preserve open space
> and increase funding for education. Currently, there
> are no safeguards
> to protect some of the most beautiful places in
> Arizona from being
> purchased by developers and turned into parking lots
> and shopping malls.
> Prop. 101 will allow public-to-public land
> exchanges, so the state can
> trade trust land for other public land of equal or
> greater value. The
> measure provides many safeguards to ensure that any
> exchanges are in
> Arizona's best interests. Public hearings would have
> to be held. Money
> will go to public education.
> Excerpts from the arguments against Prop. 101:
> The measure does not ensure conservation of the
> land, and it does not
> guarantee adequate public review and comment
> opportunities. Land
> exchanges should be subject to a full environmental
> impact analysis and
> a full public review. Prop. 101 is harmful to
> broad-based efforts to
> reform state trust land policy. The first thing that
> would happen is
> that a land exchange developed by Gov. Jane Hull
> would be implemented,
> making possible the development of 200,000 acres
> near the Grand Canyon.
> Prop. 101 would not ensure conservation of that or
> other state land and
> could lead to more unmanaged growth and sprawl.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


69694 From: Leonard Garcia <leonardg@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 6:56am
Subject: 4WD clinics article in the Arizona Republic


If you haven't had a chance to look at today's Arizona Republic...
there is an article about the SUV clinics being conducted for the
Arizona State Parks.

The article is available on line too:
http://arizonarepublic.com/smartliving/articles/1104offroad04.html


69695 From: Mitch Woodward <mitchwoodward@h...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 7:11am
Subject: Re: Election & prop 101


While I detest the sierra club, I'm not really in favor of the Tucyon (sp?) development plan up near the grand canyon. Something about blowing up the whole area to a phoenix like metropolis right near the canyon seems like a bad idea. The other problem with that development is that there really isn't enough water in the natural aquifer to support the amount of hotel rooms they want to build. Drawing out the amount of water they are talking about will likely cause some of the natural springs in the canyon to dry up. I know we don't want to support the sierra club, but we are also stewards of the environment, and should think really hard about this proposition.

The other big one for today is prop 202. 202 has a bunch of land use riders on it, as well as other bad ideas. I believe it's in our best interest to vote all 3 gaming propositions down and send them back to the drawing board.

Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe-CJ7
To: Jeep Club
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:43 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Election


First thing – Get out there and VOTE

All of the belly-aching we do at least you can do is vote to give yourself the privilege to belly-ache.

Second – Does this affect us and what are some of our opinions?

PROP. 101: state lands

A yes vote will permit the exchange of state lands for other public lands if it is in the best interests of the state land trust, it conserves open space on trust lands, and appraisals show lands received and projected income will equal or exceed that of the state lands.

A no vote will not permit the change of state lands for other public lands.

Excerpts from the arguments for Prop. 101:

The measure will give Arizonans an opportunity to preserve open space and increase funding for education. Currently, there are no safeguards to protect some of the most beautiful places in Arizona from being purchased by developers and turned into parking lots and shopping malls. Prop. 101 will allow public-to-public land exchanges, so the state can trade trust land for other public land of equal or greater value. The measure provides many safeguards to ensure that any exchanges are in Arizona's best interests. Public hearings would have to be held. Money will go to public education.

Excerpts from the arguments against Prop. 101:

The measure does not ensure conservation of the land, and it does not guarantee adequate public review and comment opportunities. Land exchanges should be subject to a full environmental impact analysis and a full public review. Prop. 101 is harmful to broad-based efforts to reform state trust land policy. The first thing that would happen is that a land exchange developed by Gov. Jane Hull would be implemented, making possible the development of 200,000 acres near the Grand Canyon. Prop. 101 would not ensure conservation of that or other state land and could lead to more unmanaged growth and sprawl.

Thanks

Joe Kearney

Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



69696 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 7:27am
Subject: [FS] CJ 7 Hardtop and full metal doors.


Price: $600

Contact: Kurt 480-861-5106

Black hardtop fair-good condition.Full metal doors with wing windows- doors painted safety orange. Passenger door needs linkage adjustment on outside handle but opens fine from inside. The tub on my cj is out of whack on the drivers side so the door dosen't fit, I'd rather just get a soft top to make life easier.

Kurt Ehrenberg


69697 From: Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 7:30am
Subject: RE: Election


Ok, the Sierra Club may be against this one, but just because theyre against it doesnt mean that we should be FOR it either.



Im against it for the some of the same reasons they are  or at least the reasons I think theyre against it.



First let me give you some background:



In the past, land management officials had to go through a lot of red tape and even had to get land swaps on the ballots and approved by voters. Prop 101 simply removes all of that red tape and allows the land managers to swap public land for private land acre for acre. Now it SAYS that it is supposed to be equal value, however in the deals Ive watched go through this is NEVER the case as the value of land depends on who is doing the evaluating (and how much kick back hes getting).



Anyone remember what happened around Lake Pleasant? Theyre putting in golf course up there where we used to wheel  ON PUBLIC LAND. One of these past land swaps they managed to get past the voters was an acre for acre swap of that land for some worthless land up north (flat, featureless, treeless land near the Indian reservation).



Voting Yes on Prop 101 is like handing them the keys to some of our favorite trails and letting them trade the land they sit on to some developer that will definitely not allow wheelers on his property  no matter the history of the trail.



M2C,



- Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe-CJ7 [mailto:Joe-CJ7@jrkearney.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:44 AM
To: Jeep Club
Subject: [az_vjc] Election



First thing  Get out there and VOTE

All of the belly-aching we do at least you can do is vote to give yourself the privilege to belly-ache.

Second  Does this affect us and what are some of our opinions?

PROP. 101: state lands

A yes vote will permit the exchange of state lands for other public lands if it is in the best interests of the state land trust, it conserves open space on trust lands, and appraisals show lands received and projected income will equal or exceed that of the state lands.

A no vote will not permit the change of state lands for other public lands.

Excerpts from the arguments for Prop. 101:

The measure will give Arizonans an opportunity to preserve open space and increase funding for education. Currently, there are no safeguards to protect some of the most beautiful places in Arizona from being purchased by developers and turned into parking lots and shopping malls. Prop. 101 will allow public-to-public land exchanges, so the state can trade trust land for other public land of equal or greater value. The measure provides many safeguards to ensure that any exchanges are in Arizona's best interests. Public hearings would have to be held. Money will go to public education.

Excerpts from the arguments against Prop. 101:

The measure does not ensure conservation of the land, and it does not guarantee adequate public review and comment opportunities. Land exchanges should be subject to a full environmental impact analysis and a full public review. Prop. 101 is harmful to broad-based efforts to reform state trust land policy. The first thing that would happen is that a land exchange developed by Gov. Jane Hull would be implemented, making possible the development of 200,000 acres near the Grand Canyon. Prop. 101 would not ensure conservation of that or other state land and could lead to more unmanaged growth and sprawl.

Thanks

Joe Kearney

Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.





69698 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 7:54am
Subject: Re: Election


People should vote for or against the issues as they see them, regardless of how other people or groups (whomever they may be) vote. Same for candidates running for office. People should look at all the issues and vote as they see fit, and not simply because a candidate is for or against something that the person is. I saw a lot of this during the last election. People getting to wound up on one thing and not looking at the "total package".
I'm registered with one of the Parties, but I *never* vote across the whole Party line. The only reason that I'm registered with one, is to keep 'em off my back ;)
I vote for or against each issue and candidate based on the "whole package" and not simply because of one part of it, and *never* because someone/group/party is for or against it.


Best,
Fred

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chatfield
To: Jeep Club
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Election


Ok, the Sierra Club may be against this one, but just because they’re against it doesn’t mean that we should be FOR it either.



I’m against it for the some of the same reasons they are – or at least the reasons I think they’re against it.



First let me give you some background:



In the past, land management officials had to go through a lot of red tape and even had to get land swaps on the ballots and approved by voters. Prop 101 simply removes all of that red tape and allows the land managers to swap public land for private land acre for acre. Now it SAYS that it is supposed to be “equal value,” however in the deals I’ve watched go through this is NEVER the case as the “value” of land depends on who is doing the evaluating (and how much kick back he’s getting).



Anyone remember what happened around Lake Pleasant? They’re putting in golf course up there where we used to wheel – ON PUBLIC LAND. One of these past “land swaps” they managed to get past the voters was an acre for acre swap of that land for some worthless land up north (flat, featureless, treeless land near the Indian reservation).



Voting Yes on Prop 101 is like handing them the keys to some of our favorite trails and letting them trade the land they sit on to some developer that will definitely not allow wheelers on his property – no matter the history of the trail.



M2C,



- Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe-CJ7 [mailto:Joe-CJ7@jrkearney.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:44 AM
To: Jeep Club
Subject: [az_vjc] Election



First thing – Get out there and VOTE

All of the belly-aching we do at least you can do is vote to give yourself the privilege to belly-ache.

Second – Does this affect us and what are some of our opinions?

PROP. 101: state lands

A yes vote will permit the exchange of state lands for other public lands if it is in the best interests of the state land trust, it conserves open space on trust lands, and appraisals show lands received and projected income will equal or exceed that of the state lands.

A no vote will not permit the change of state lands for other public lands.

Excerpts from the arguments for Prop. 101:

The measure will give Arizonans an opportunity to preserve open space and increase funding for education. Currently, there are no safeguards to protect some of the most beautiful places in Arizona from being purchased by developers and turned into parking lots and shopping malls. Prop. 101 will allow public-to-public land exchanges, so the state can trade trust land for other public land of equal or greater value. The measure provides many safeguards to ensure that any exchanges are in Arizona's best interests. Public hearings would have to be held. Money will go to public education.

Excerpts from the arguments against Prop. 101:

The measure does not ensure conservation of the land, and it does not guarantee adequate public review and comment opportunities. Land exchanges should be subject to a full environmental impact analysis and a full public review. Prop. 101 is harmful to broad-based efforts to reform state trust land policy. The first thing that would happen is that a land exchange developed by Gov. Jane Hull would be implemented, making possible the development of 200,000 acres near the Grand Canyon. Prop. 101 would not ensure conservation of that or other state land and could lead to more unmanaged growth and sprawl.

Thanks

Joe Kearney

Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



69699 From: Spgirard30@c... <spgirard30@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 7:52am
Subject: YJ transfer case needed


Does anyone have a stock YJ transfer case laying around that they would like to get rid of. I have a buddy who cracked his case and kept driving it after all the gear oil leaked out. I am looking for one to replace it with. Name your price??

Shaun
Tucson



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