blooddrive
01-06-2004, 06:01 AM
68588-68612
68588 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
directed to someone named Jim.
Second If you want to align your self with the
Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
this official of the Sc directing all those " off
roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
Jim Lambertus
--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
> who
> >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> sticker
> >on their vehicle.
> > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> would
> >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
> line
> >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
> a
> >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
> >with anything that has wheels.
> > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
> of
> >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
> >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
> (sp).
> > Jim Lambertus
>
> I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
> been involved in the
> fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
> 28 years old, my first
> brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> year old riding a dirt
> bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
> fight was WITH A
> SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
> to me.
>
> Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
> as cutting off yer nose
> to spite your face, which is more like what you are
> actually accomplishing.
>
> Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> methods and processes
> available to you in order to keep our land open. If
> a SC asks to come on a
> cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
> If we refuse them, and
> tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
> good in our fight?
> Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
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68589 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
When and where is the Coves Cleanup again?
Sounds like fun.
Tony
At 01:00 PM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
>directed to someone named Jim.
> Second If you want to align your self with the
>Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
>but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
>this official of the Sc directing all those " off
>roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
>great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
> Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> Jim Lambertus
>--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
>> At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
>> >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
>> who
>> >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
>> sticker
>> >on their vehicle.
>> > This is just my opinion but I believe it
>> would
>> >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
>> line
>> >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
>> a
>> >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
>> >with anything that has wheels.
>> > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
>> of
>> >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
>> >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
>> (sp).
>> > Jim Lambertus
>>
>> I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
>> been involved in the
>> fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
>> 28 years old, my first
>> brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
>> year old riding a dirt
>> bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
>> fight was WITH A
>> SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
>> to me.
>>
>> Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
>> as cutting off yer nose
>> to spite your face, which is more like what you are
>> actually accomplishing.
>>
>> Standing up for what you believe in is using all
>> methods and processes
>> available to you in order to keep our land open. If
>> a SC asks to come on a
>> cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
>> If we refuse them, and
>> tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
>> good in our fight?
>> Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
68590 From: azredrocker <gotrox@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
hey Jimmy, want to go have a beer? hehe
We're looking for a few good ROCK NAZI'S!!!
cheers,
Neal
--- In az_vjc@y..., jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...> wrote:
> First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
> directed to someone named Jim.
> Second If you want to align your self with the
> Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
> but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
> great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
> Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> Jim Lambertus
> --- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
> > who
> > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > sticker
> > >on their vehicle.
> > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > would
> > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
> > line
> > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
> > a
> > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
> > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
> > of
> > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
> > >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
> > (sp).
> > > Jim Lambertus
> >
> > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
> > been involved in the
> > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
> > 28 years old, my first
> > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > year old riding a dirt
> > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
> > fight was WITH A
> > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
> > to me.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
> > as cutting off yer nose
> > to spite your face, which is more like what you are
> > actually accomplishing.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > methods and processes
> > available to you in order to keep our land open. If
> > a SC asks to come on a
> > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
> > If we refuse them, and
> > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
> > good in our fight?
> > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68591 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:11pm
Subject: Coves
Randy see what you started when you thought about cleaning up the coves.
Let's just go 4 wheeling and clean the cove.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimmy lambertus" <jeepnazus@y...>
To: "Daver" <daver@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> Are you?
> Jim Lambertus
> --- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > Are you reading for comprehension?
> >
> > At 09:03 AM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >Are you a member of the Sierra Club ?
> > > Jim Lambertus
> > >--- wheelenx2 <wheelenx2@y...> wrote:
> > > > > I am not going to Parker Splash this year and
> > had
> > > > planned to go out
> > > > > with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not
> > now.
> > > > I'll do it
> > > > > somewhere else with others that feel the same
> > way.
> > > >
> > > > "I'm taking my toys and going home." Would have
> > been
> > > > a more direct
> > > > way of getting your point across.
> > > >
> > > > And I say to you:
> > > >
> > > > Good, take your toys and your close minded "I
> > won't
> > > > even talk to the
> > > > enemy" and leave the clean-ups to the adults.
> > Your
> > > > attitude will
> > > > only serve to hurt the sport in the end.
> > > >
> > > > Grow Up a Little,
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68592 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
First, you sent the email directly to me, in addition to the list. Not to
any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied apology for your mistake.
Second, I disagree with your statement that "allowing" (this is, after all,
public property, and they have as much of a right to be there as us, don't
let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra Clubbers at the clean up is
"aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt that even those who don't
mind the SC being there would wander around being "direct[ed]" by them.
At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
>First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
>directed to someone named Jim.
> Second If you want to align your self with the
>Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
>but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
>this official of the Sc directing all those " off
>roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
>great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
> Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> Jim Lambertus
>--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
> > who
> > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > sticker
> > >on their vehicle.
> > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > would
> > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
> > line
> > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
> > a
> > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
> > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
> > of
> > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
> > >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
> > (sp).
> > > Jim Lambertus
> >
> > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
> > been involved in the
> > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
> > 28 years old, my first
> > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > year old riding a dirt
> > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
> > fight was WITH A
> > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
> > to me.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
> > as cutting off yer nose
> > to spite your face, which is more like what you are
> > actually accomplishing.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > methods and processes
> > available to you in order to keep our land open. If
> > a SC asks to come on a
> > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
> > If we refuse them, and
> > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
> > good in our fight?
> > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68593 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Any time bro, I'll be out at the spook ralley this
weekend, if your in the neighborhood Iwill be in the
green beat up cj.
Jim
--- azredrocker <gotrox@c...> wrote:
> hey Jimmy, want to go have a beer? hehe
> We're looking for a few good ROCK NAZI'S!!!
>
> cheers,
>
> Neal
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
> wrote:
> > First, my question was not directed toward you,it
> was
> > directed to someone named Jim.
> > Second If you want to align your self with the
> > Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to
> you,
> > but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> > this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> > roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that
> as
> > great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> nose?
> > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> > Jim Lambertus
> > --- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> wrote:
> > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> person
> > > who
> > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > > sticker
> > > >on their vehicle.
> > > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > > would
> > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> all.Bottom
> > > line
> > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees
> us in
> > > a
> > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our
> land
> > > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> bottom
> > > of
> > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> than on
> > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> Kumbyah
> > > (sp).
> > > > Jim Lambertus
> > >
> > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> have
> > > been involved in the
> > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I
> am
> > > 28 years old, my first
> > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > > year old riding a dirt
> > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That
> first
> > > fight was WITH A
> > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything
> new
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > Standing up for what you believe in is not the
> same
> > > as cutting off yer nose
> > > to spite your face, which is more like what you
> are
> > > actually accomplishing.
> > >
> > > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > > methods and processes
> > > available to you in order to keep our land open.
> If
> > > a SC asks to come on a
> > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
> not.
> > > If we refuse them, and
> > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us
> any
> > > good in our fight?
> > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68594 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:34pm
Subject: Re: Engagement at Sedona a success!!!!!
Congratulations!!!
Great idea of proposing there.
I take it she likes Jeeps, I would only hope so.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
----- Original Message -----
From: <simbosi@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 12:42 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Engagement at Sedona a success!!!!!
> I want to thank everyone for the help and suggestions. The Mystic view
area provided an excellent location for a little wheeling, a fine picnic,
and poppin' the question. Fantastic views and no damn pink Jeeps.
>
> and yes, she did say YES!
>
> No for the wedding......does anyone have any tranquilizers for a
mother-in-law???
>
> thanks,
> David Simpso
> '02 TJ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68595 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:36am
Subject: TJ PT 4WD
I will try to keep this non technical......and I am sure that there are many more of you here that can explain this better than I but here is my take on it........ what it actually means is that he has an NV231 Xfer case which is no different than the ones we have back east here. The dealer obviously dont know what he is talking about. Part time simply means, dont use it all the time, like on hard roads, etc. He has REAL 4WD, well at least as real as you can get without lockers at both ends. The 242 Xfer case they use in Cherokees has a full time and part time mode, the full time you can run all the time if you want with little or no binding like you get with the PT mode. Tell your buddy not to worry, we dont have any better or different 4WD systems back east here. I guess in a nutshell, the dealer is full of chit, I would thing twice about asking him any more questions
Mike
68596 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the group
by the way his name is Jim. No apology was intended
or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
Isnt this fun
Jim Lambertus
--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> First, you sent the email directly to me, in
> addition to the list. Not to
> any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied apology
> for your mistake.
>
> Second, I disagree with your statement that
> "allowing" (this is, after all,
> public property, and they have as much of a right to
> be there as us, don't
> let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
> Clubbers at the clean up is
> "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt that
> even those who don't
> mind the SC being there would wander around being
> "direct[ed]" by them.
>
> At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> >First, my question was not directed toward you,it
> was
> >directed to someone named Jim.
> > Second If you want to align your self with the
> >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to
> you,
> >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> >this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
> >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> nose?
> > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> > Jim Lambertus
> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> wrote:
> > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> person
> > > who
> > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > > sticker
> > > >on their vehicle.
> > > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > > would
> > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> all.Bottom
> > > line
> > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees
> us in
> > > a
> > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our
> land
> > > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> bottom
> > > of
> > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> than on
> > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> Kumbyah
> > > (sp).
> > > > Jim Lambertus
> > >
> > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> have
> > > been involved in the
> > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I
> am
> > > 28 years old, my first
> > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > > year old riding a dirt
> > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That
> first
> > > fight was WITH A
> > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything
> new
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > Standing up for what you believe in is not the
> same
> > > as cutting off yer nose
> > > to spite your face, which is more like what you
> are
> > > actually accomplishing.
> > >
> > > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > > methods and processes
> > > available to you in order to keep our land open.
> If
> > > a SC asks to come on a
> > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
> not.
> > > If we refuse them, and
> > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us
> any
> > > good in our fight?
> > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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68597 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:48pm
Subject: [FS] 33 12.50 15 Thornbirds for sale
Price: 100.00
Contact: 623 703 0482
tires
Jason Jolley
68598 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hey, everyone is entitled to their own incorrect opinions =)
At 01:46 PM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the group
>by the way his name is Jim. No apology was intended
>or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
>opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
>involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
> Isnt this fun
> Jim Lambertus
>
>--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
>> First, you sent the email directly to me, in
>> addition to the list. Not to
>> any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied apology
>> for your mistake.
>>
>> Second, I disagree with your statement that
>> "allowing" (this is, after all,
>> public property, and they have as much of a right to
>> be there as us, don't
>> let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
>> Clubbers at the clean up is
>> "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt that
>> even those who don't
>> mind the SC being there would wander around being
>> "direct[ed]" by them.
>>
>> At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
>> >First, my question was not directed toward you,it
>> was
>> >directed to someone named Jim.
>> > Second If you want to align your self with the
>> >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to
>> you,
>> >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
>> >this official of the Sc directing all those " off
>> >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
>> >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
>> nose?
>> > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
>> > Jim Lambertus
>> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
>> > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
>> wrote:
>> > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
>> person
>> > > who
>> > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
>> > > sticker
>> > > >on their vehicle.
>> > > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
>> > > would
>> > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
>> all.Bottom
>> > > line
>> > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees
>> us in
>> > > a
>> > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our
>> land
>> > > >with anything that has wheels.
>> > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
>> bottom
>> > > of
>> > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
>> than on
>> > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
>> Kumbyah
>> > > (sp).
>> > > > Jim Lambertus
>> > >
>> > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
>> have
>> > > been involved in the
>> > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I
>> am
>> > > 28 years old, my first
>> > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
>> > > year old riding a dirt
>> > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That
>> first
>> > > fight was WITH A
>> > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything
>> new
>> > > to me.
>> > >
>> > > Standing up for what you believe in is not the
>> same
>> > > as cutting off yer nose
>> > > to spite your face, which is more like what you
>> are
>> > > actually accomplishing.
>> > >
>> > > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
>> > > methods and processes
>> > > available to you in order to keep our land open.
>> If
>> > > a SC asks to come on a
>> > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
>> not.
>> > > If we refuse them, and
>> > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us
>> any
>> > > good in our fight?
>> > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >__________________________________________________
>> >Do you Yahoo!?
>> >Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>> >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
>http://faith.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
68599 From: Dave oboyle <arizonaXj@h...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:52pm
Subject: Re: Hello!
Welcome to the group..
Dave
Rock Rash is better than Road Rash
Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
>From: "Bill Mish" <yldkat55@h...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"ajeepgirlinaz" <ajeepgirlinaz@y...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Hello!
>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:33:08 -0700
>
>Welcome!
>Hope to see you around.
>Be Good.
>Later.
>
>Bill Mish
>1955 Willys CJ3B
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "ajeepgirlinaz" <ajeepgirlinaz@y...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:13 PM
>Subject: [az_vjc] Hello!
>
>
> > Hi everyone! I'm Teresa. I just joined AZVJC a few days ago. A good
> > friend of mine, Duffy Ladd, told me this was a good place to meet
> > other 'Jeep people' and have a lot of fun! So far so good! Drop me a
> > line and say hello. Talk to you later.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN!
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
68600 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Yes THEY are:=)
--- intertwingled <intertwingled@q...> wrote:
>
> Hey, everyone is entitled to their own incorrect
> opinions =)
>
> At 01:46 PM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the
> group
> >by the way his name is Jim. No apology was
> intended
> >or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
> >opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
> >involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
> > Isnt this fun
> > Jim Lambertus
> >
> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> >> First, you sent the email directly to me, in
> >> addition to the list. Not to
> >> any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied
> apology
> >> for your mistake.
> >>
> >> Second, I disagree with your statement that
> >> "allowing" (this is, after all,
> >> public property, and they have as much of a right
> to
> >> be there as us, don't
> >> let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
> >> Clubbers at the clean up is
> >> "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt
> that
> >> even those who don't
> >> mind the SC being there would wander around being
> >> "direct[ed]" by them.
> >>
> >> At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> wrote:
> >> >First, my question was not directed toward
> you,it
> >> was
> >> >directed to someone named Jim.
> >> > Second If you want to align your self with
> the
> >> >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up
> to
> >> you,
> >> >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics
> of
> >> >this official of the Sc directing all those "
> off
> >> >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that
> as
> >> >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> >> nose?
> >> > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> >> > Jim Lambertus
> >> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> >> > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> >> person
> >> > > who
> >> > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra
> club
> >> > > sticker
> >> > > >on their vehicle.
> >> > > > This is just my opinion but I believe
> it
> >> > > would
> >> > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> >> all.Bottom
> >> > > line
> >> > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person
> sees
> >> us in
> >> > > a
> >> > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on
> our
> >> land
> >> > > >with anything that has wheels.
> >> > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> >> bottom
> >> > > of
> >> > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> >> than on
> >> > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> >> Kumbyah
> >> > > (sp).
> >> > > > Jim Lambertus
> >> > >
> >> > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> >> have
> >> > > been involved in the
> >> > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years.
> I
> >> am
> >> > > 28 years old, my first
> >> > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as
> a 5
> >> > > year old riding a dirt
> >> > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim.
> That
> >> first
> >> > > fight was WITH A
> >> > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't
> anything
> >> new
> >> > > to me.
> >> > >
> >> > > Standing up for what you believe in is not
> the
> >> same
> >> > > as cutting off yer nose
> >> > > to spite your face, which is more like what
> you
> >> are
> >> > > actually accomplishing.
> >> > >
> >> > > Standing up for what you believe in is using
> all
> >> > > methods and processes
> >> > > available to you in order to keep our land
> open.
> >> If
> >> > > a SC asks to come on a
> >> > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
> >> not.
> >> > > If we refuse them, and
> >> > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do
> us
> >> any
> >> > > good in our fight?
> >> > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >__________________________________________________
> >> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >> >Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web
> site
> >> >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> >http://faith.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> even the safest course is fraught with peril
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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68601 From: jeepindog <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
If everyone is entitled to their opinion, then why can't they
voice (type) it, and instead are told to "GIVE IT A REST!!!!..."?
Just wondering what this world is coming to,
Lachlan MacLean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray B. [mailto:kb7skv@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:27 PM
> To: scramzilla
> Cc: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
> GUYS!!!! It's real simple. Invite her (them) they can come
anyway so
> what's the debate about?? Weather it changes their mind, bolsters
current
> thoughts, or does Nothing does NOT matter!! We're gonna clean the
Coves,
> people are gonna watch, and everyone is entitled to their own
opinion!!
> GIVE IT A REST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> See ya at the coves!
>
> Our .02
> Ray and Amanda
> AZAV8ER
>
> scramzilla wrote:
>
>
> You need to read all my threads....I have never said that they
>
> (whoever) should not be included in any cleanup. The
>
> "find yourself crumpled at the bottom of a chasm with others of
your
>
> kind while the rest of us standing together above find a solution
>
> which good for everyone." part of your email is grandiose at the
very
>
> least. All this "stuff", for lack of a better word, is
>
> opinion....nothing more.
>
>
>
> I believe in keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, so
>
> bring them to the cloves. I would never try to sway the weaker of
the
>
> SC members because they are NOT the ones running the show. I do my
>
> fighting at the BLM meetings and in the courts. This is the land
>
> issue battlefield of the 21st century and this is where the war
will
>
> be won or lost. Book it!
>
>
>
> Zilla
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe West" <mailto:joe.west@s...>
<joe.west@s...>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Steven,
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, this situation isn't quite as black and white as your
>
> email below might lead one to believe you think it is. Since we
>
>
>
> live in
>
>
>
> a free society, the Sierra Club is completely free to come out and
>
>
>
> watch
>
>
>
> us work.
>
> If they choose to try and point out something that we may do wrong
>
>
>
> (such
>
>
>
> as accidentally run over an endangered rock) during the cleanup, it
>
>
>
> will
>
>
>
> be a relatively easy task to show where our hearts were at and that
>
>
>
> we
>
>
>
> were indeed trying to do the right thing.
>
>
>
> I suspect that the Sierra Club is smart enough to know that pointing
>
> fingers at a group that is trying to do good things will result in
>
>
>
> their
>
>
>
> ultimate demise. While there are radicals on both sides (your
>
>
>
> comments
>
>
>
> below might lead one to believe that you are one of these) of the
>
> issues, I believe them to be in the minority, and I am thankful that
>
> they are.
>
>
>
> It takes a wise person to understand that ultimately, those who's
>
>
>
> goals
>
>
>
> are just will triumph. No matter what happens by bringing in the
>
>
>
> Sierra
>
>
>
> Club (albeit perhaps only one or two members) and showing them how
>
>
>
> we
>
>
>
> work together during the coves cleanup; the result will be positive.
>
>
>
> It is easy for narrow minds on both sides of the issue to not trust
>
>
>
> the
>
>
>
> other side. It is much more difficult to do the right thing
>
>
>
> always...
>
>
>
> regardless of the potential consequences. In this case Steven, the
>
> right thing is to clean up the coves and allow everyone who wants to
>
> watch or participate, to do so. Consider this; even if we did not
>
>
>
> want
>
>
>
> to include them, we cannot stop them. So why not invite them to
>
> participate in the hopes that they will see how earnestly we are
>
>
>
> trying
>
>
>
> to make amends for the ignorant slobs among our community who made
>
>
>
> the
>
>
>
> mess at the coves in the first place?
>
>
>
> I'll step down now... and allow you to comment if you wish. You
>
>
>
> stand
>
>
>
> on a platform that is indefensible, and right next to you stand the
>
> extremists from the other side. You fail to recognize that
>
>
>
> ultimately,
>
>
>
> the plank you stand on will fail, and you will find yourself
>
>
>
> crumpled at
>
>
>
> the bottom of a chasm with others of your kind while the rest of us
>
> standing together above find a solution which good for everyone.
>
>
>
> I look forward to your comments.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> Joe West
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: scramzilla [ mailto:steven.c.forrester@l
<mailto:steven.c.forrester@l>
> ...]
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:52 AM
>
> To: az_vjc@y...
>
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
>
> I don't care if the tree huggers comes to the cleanup or not. I
>
>
>
> still
>
>
>
> believe she is a Trojan Horse and you naive wheelers will probably
>
> end up with SC crap on your face. Hey! If I'm wrong, I'm wrong! But
>
>
>
> I
>
>
>
> would not trust one of those whacked out suck heads as far as I
>
>
>
> could
>
>
>
> kick them!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
68602 From: Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:57pm
Subject: Sierra Club invite - and BLM rep
Hello all
With a few notable exceptions, the responses I've received have supported inviting the Sierra Club to attend the Coves Cleanup. The invitation has been sent........the ball is in their court. Whether or not they attend, individually or in a group, is up to them.
On a much more important note: I posted a message regarding a representative from our group being sent to the BLM round table discussions for their new management plans at the same time as I sent the Sierra Club / Coves message. I've only received one response to the BLM question. Did everybody else skip that one? Let's get some discussion going on that subject......I need to get in touch with Horyza as soon as possible to make sure that our group gets an official part in the decision making process.
So far, the nominations for the BLM rep (from the one response) are Stu and myself. Is this something you want to do, Stu?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68603 From: Kent Warner <KnetAZ@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:57pm
Subject: RE-Introduce myself, and dusting off the wrenches
Hey all,
OK, well I am done lurking and getting back to working on my '74 CJ-
5, so I just wanted to say "Hi, I am back." Couple of questions on
what I am working on: First is that my steering column has a lot of
slop on the bottom end and a goofy steering wheel on the top, so I am
thinking of just replacing the whole thing. Any one have/know where
to get a steering column (manual steering) for a '74? Thinking of
putting on a Clifford or Offy 4 barrel manifold too, same question
there. Anyone have any suggestions on good Phoenix area junkyards to
scour?
Hopefully I can get this thing going and do a trail ride with y'all,
while there are still trails open.
Kent
68604 From: jeepindog <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Another donation just came to my desk....
Yeah, those guys at CFJ are great. Very helpful in finding my
paint code... Too bad it's not available in an aftermarket rattle
can. Has to be a "base coat/clear cote" application from a gun.
Guess I'll paint the insides of my front fenders black...
Lachlan
In az_vjc@y..., Mike Baney <jeepin_in_az@y...> wrote:
> Just wanted to say thanks to Cludge Sypinski at Chrysler Family
Jeep in
> PA!!! He heard about the clean up and sent out 2 boxes of stuff
for the
> raffle, shirts, cleaning kits, hat, and other stuff!!!
>
> Check them out www.familyparts.com
>
> They offer a 20% discount for clubs, and free shipping for orders
over
> $200.
>
>
> Have a good day all!
>
> Mike Baney
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68605 From: kmichael02 <kmichael02@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: -----[fs] 30 / 9.50 /15
these'll work great for the coves clean up!! Get em now, I want them
out of my garage.
futura mt's bout 75% thread...great tire to use for a while and see
if you really like mt's.
75$ obo.
480 967 9792
kmichael02@y...
68606 From: Janice Allison <jallison@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:03pm
Subject: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
You go Zilla! heh...
At 03:11 PM 10/24/02 -0400, Forrester, Steven C wrote:
>That's cool. I'll try to post more tonight when I can spend more time on the
>board. I have very strong opinions on this subject and would love nothing
>more than to keep this thread alive for days.....even at the risk of turning
>it into soporific drivel. ;-) I'll be at the Spook Rally if anyone wants to
>continue this discussion on and uninterrupted basis. But be warned, I like
>the open spaces that "this" chasm provides. :-)
>
>
>Zilla
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:52 PM
>To: 'scramzilla'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
>Thank you. I could stick to monosyllabic words but is much less fun for
>me to do so. As for the opinion part, indeed; most everything I write
>is my opinion unless I use the word fact in my pontifications.
>
>I think that this is a healthy discussion, and don't find it in the
>least bit destructive. I like hearing your opinion, and even more, I
>enjoy disagreeing with you and the resulting debate which occurs.
>
>I look forward to seeing you on the Coves cleanup.
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Joe West
>
>Zilla wrote:
>
>You need to read all my threads....I have never said that they
>(whoever) should not be included in any cleanup. The
>"find yourself crumpled at the bottom of a chasm with others of your
>kind while the rest of us standing together above find a solution
>which good for everyone." part of your email is grandiose at the very
>least. All this "stuff", for lack of a better word, is
>opinion....nothing more.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68607 From: azredrocker <gotrox@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:05pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hey Clay, I think you made a fan!
Neal
--- In az_vjc@y..., Janice Allison <jallison@a...> wrote:
> You go Zilla! heh...
>
>
> At 03:11 PM 10/24/02 -0400, Forrester, Steven C wrote:
> >That's cool. I'll try to post more tonight when I can spend more
time on the
> >board. I have very strong opinions on this subject and would love
nothing
> >more than to keep this thread alive for days.....even at the risk
of turning
> >it into soporific drivel. ;-) I'll be at the Spook Rally if anyone
wants to
> >continue this discussion on and uninterrupted basis. But be
warned, I like
> >the open spaces that "this" chasm provides. :-)
> >
> >
> >Zilla
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
> >Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:52 PM
> >To: 'scramzilla'; az_vjc@y...
> >Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> >
> >
> >Thank you. I could stick to monosyllabic words but is much less
fun for
> >me to do so. As for the opinion part, indeed; most everything I
write
> >is my opinion unless I use the word fact in my pontifications.
> >
> >I think that this is a healthy discussion, and don't find it in the
> >least bit destructive. I like hearing your opinion, and even
more, I
> >enjoy disagreeing with you and the resulting debate which occurs.
> >
> >I look forward to seeing you on the Coves cleanup.
> >
> >Kind Regards,
> >
> >Joe West
> >
> >Zilla wrote:
> >
> >You need to read all my threads....I have never said that they
> >(whoever) should not be included in any cleanup. The
> >"find yourself crumpled at the bottom of a chasm with others of
your
> >kind while the rest of us standing together above find a solution
> >which good for everyone." part of your email is grandiose at the
very
> >least. All this "stuff", for lack of a better word, is
> >opinion....nothing more.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68608 From: kmichael02 <kmichael02@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:06pm
Subject: Re: poll
took it off and threw it as far from the jeep as possible, never had
a problem, never thought about it since.
michael
--- In az_vjc@y..., "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...> wrote:
>
> To the club at large:
>
> Just wondering... How many YJ owners (and similar)
> have removed the rear track bar from his/her jeep?
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
>
> --
> even the safest course is fraught with peril
68609 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
First, I guess we are back to reading for comprehension again. The first
response was to him, the second ("Are you?") to me. It is really beside the
point so forget it.
Second, OK. I'm viewing _allowing them to come_ or _involving them in the
cleanup_ as the same thing. I can understand not subscribing to that view,
and will drop it.
Third, I understand your point, and yet still do not agree with it due to
the reasons outlined previously. I guess if something like that happens it
will fall under the old saying, "no good deed goes unpunished." Well,
that's how it goes I guess, but it won't stop me from doing the "right"
thing whenever possible.
At 01:46 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
>Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the group
>by the way his name is Jim. No apology was intended
>or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
>opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
>involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
> Isnt this fun
> Jim Lambertus
>
>--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > First, you sent the email directly to me, in
> > addition to the list. Not to
> > any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied apology
> > for your mistake.
> >
> > Second, I disagree with your statement that
> > "allowing" (this is, after all,
> > public property, and they have as much of a right to
> > be there as us, don't
> > let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
> > Clubbers at the clean up is
> > "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt that
> > even those who don't
> > mind the SC being there would wander around being
> > "direct[ed]" by them.
> >
> > At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >First, my question was not directed toward you,it
> > was
> > >directed to someone named Jim.
> > > Second If you want to align your self with the
> > >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to
> > you,
> > >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> > >this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> > >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
> > >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> > nose?
> > > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> > > Jim Lambertus
> > >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> > wrote:
> > > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> > person
> > > > who
> > > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > > > sticker
> > > > >on their vehicle.
> > > > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > > > would
> > > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> > all.Bottom
> > > > line
> > > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees
> > us in
> > > > a
> > > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our
> > land
> > > > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> > bottom
> > > > of
> > > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> > than on
> > > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> > Kumbyah
> > > > (sp).
> > > > > Jim Lambertus
> > > >
> > > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> > have
> > > > been involved in the
> > > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I
> > am
> > > > 28 years old, my first
> > > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > > > year old riding a dirt
> > > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That
> > first
> > > > fight was WITH A
> > > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything
> > new
> > > > to me.
> > > >
> > > > Standing up for what you believe in is not the
> > same
> > > > as cutting off yer nose
> > > > to spite your face, which is more like what you
> > are
> > > > actually accomplishing.
> > > >
> > > > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > > > methods and processes
> > > > available to you in order to keep our land open.
> > If
> > > > a SC asks to come on a
> > > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
> > not.
> > > > If we refuse them, and
> > > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us
> > any
> > > > good in our fight?
> > > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
68610 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:09pm
Subject: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Does anyone other than me remember the paranoia that surrounded Brian
the Eco-NAZI environmental attorney when he joined the group? Remember
the "he's a spy" and other such rubbish?
Those who had to eat their words probably remember it well...
Turns out Brian is a great guy... just like it will turn out that the SC
members who join us will be great people.
Joe West
--- In az_vjc@y..., jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...> wrote:
> First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
> directed to someone named Jim.
> Second If you want to align your self with the
> Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
> but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
> great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
> Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> Jim Lambertus
> --- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
> > who
> > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > sticker
> > >on their vehicle.
> > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > would
> > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
> > line
> > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
> > a
> > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
> > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
> > of
> > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
> > >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
> > (sp).
> > > Jim Lambertus
> >
> > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
> > been involved in the
> > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
> > 28 years old, my first
> > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > year old riding a dirt
> > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
> > fight was WITH A
> > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
> > to me.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
> > as cutting off yer nose
> > to spite your face, which is more like what you are
> > actually accomplishing.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > methods and processes
> > available to you in order to keep our land open. If
> > a SC asks to come on a
> > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
> > If we refuse them, and
> > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
> > good in our fight?
> > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68611 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:08pm
Subject: RE: Sierra Club invite - and BLM rep
Both of you are excellent choices. I hope I don't have to pick between the two of you. :D
In my opinion we will get more done working with BLM.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Len Sullivan [mailto:kermitj10@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:57 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Sierra Club invite - and BLM rep
Hello all
With a few notable exceptions, the responses I've received have supported inviting the Sierra Club to attend the Coves Cleanup. The invitation has been sent........the ball is in their court. Whether or not they attend, individually or in a group, is up to them.
On a much more important note: I posted a message regarding a representative from our group being sent to the BLM round table discussions for their new management plans at the same time as I sent the Sierra Club / Coves message. I've only received one response to the BLM question. Did everybody else skip that one? Let's get some discussion going on that subject......I need to get in touch with Horyza as soon as possible to make sure that our group gets an official part in the decision making process.
So far, the nominations for the BLM rep (from the one response) are Stu and myself. Is this something you want to do, Stu?
Len
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68612 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Ok first lets have a beer.Second lets have another to
toast our freedom to express our opinions no matter
how they differ.
Jim Lambertus
--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> First, I guess we are back to reading for
> comprehension again. The first
> response was to him, the second ("Are you?") to me.
> It is really beside the
> point so forget it.
>
> Second, OK. I'm viewing _allowing them to come_ or
> _involving them in the
> cleanup_ as the same thing. I can understand not
> subscribing to that view,
> and will drop it.
>
> Third, I understand your point, and yet still do not
> agree with it due to
> the reasons outlined previously. I guess if
> something like that happens it
> will fall under the old saying, "no good deed goes
> unpunished." Well,
> that's how it goes I guess, but it won't stop me
> from doing the "right"
> thing whenever possible.
>
> At 01:46 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> >Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the
> group
> >by the way his name is Jim. No apology was
> intended
> >or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
> >opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
> >involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
> > Isnt this fun
> > Jim Lambertus
> >
> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > First, you sent the email directly to me, in
> > > addition to the list. Not to
> > > any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied
> apology
> > > for your mistake.
> > >
> > > Second, I disagree with your statement that
> > > "allowing" (this is, after all,
> > > public property, and they have as much of a
> right to
> > > be there as us, don't
> > > let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
> > > Clubbers at the clean up is
> > > "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt
> that
> > > even those who don't
> > > mind the SC being there would wander around
> being
> > > "direct[ed]" by them.
> > >
> > > At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> wrote:
> > > >First, my question was not directed toward
> you,it
> > > was
> > > >directed to someone named Jim.
> > > > Second If you want to align your self with
> the
> > > >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up
> to
> > > you,
> > > >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics
> of
> > > >this official of the Sc directing all those "
> off
> > > >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see
> that as
> > > >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> > > nose?
> > > > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> > > > Jim Lambertus
> > > >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy
> lambertus
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> > > person
> > > > > who
> > > > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra
> club
> > > > > sticker
> > > > > >on their vehicle.
> > > > > > This is just my opinion but I
> believe it
> > > > > would
> > > > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> > > all.Bottom
> > > > > line
> > > > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person
> sees
> > > us in
> > > > > a
> > > > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on
> our
> > > land
> > > > > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> > > bottom
> > > > > of
> > > > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> > > than on
> > > > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> > > Kumbyah
> > > > > (sp).
> > > > > > Jim Lambertus
> > > > >
> > > > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> > > have
> > > > > been involved in the
> > > > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20
> years. I
> > > am
> > > > > 28 years old, my first
> > > > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as
> a 5
> > > > > year old riding a dirt
> > > > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim.
> That
> > > first
> > > > > fight was WITH A
> > > > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't
> anything
> > > new
> > > > > to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Standing up for what you believe in is not
> the
> > > same
> > > > > as cutting off yer nose
> > > > > to spite your face, which is more like what
> you
> > > are
> > > > > actually accomplishing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Standing up for what you believe in is using
> all
> > > > > methods and processes
> > > > > available to you in order to keep our land
> open.
> > > If
> > > > > a SC asks to come on a
> > > > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe,
> maybe
> > > not.
> > > > > If we refuse them, and
> > > > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that
> do us
> > > any
> > > > > good in our fight?
> > > > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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68588 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
directed to someone named Jim.
Second If you want to align your self with the
Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
this official of the Sc directing all those " off
roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
Jim Lambertus
--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
> who
> >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> sticker
> >on their vehicle.
> > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> would
> >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
> line
> >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
> a
> >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
> >with anything that has wheels.
> > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
> of
> >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
> >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
> (sp).
> > Jim Lambertus
>
> I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
> been involved in the
> fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
> 28 years old, my first
> brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> year old riding a dirt
> bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
> fight was WITH A
> SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
> to me.
>
> Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
> as cutting off yer nose
> to spite your face, which is more like what you are
> actually accomplishing.
>
> Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> methods and processes
> available to you in order to keep our land open. If
> a SC asks to come on a
> cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
> If we refuse them, and
> tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
> good in our fight?
> Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68589 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
When and where is the Coves Cleanup again?
Sounds like fun.
Tony
At 01:00 PM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
>directed to someone named Jim.
> Second If you want to align your self with the
>Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
>but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
>this official of the Sc directing all those " off
>roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
>great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
> Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> Jim Lambertus
>--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
>> At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
>> >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
>> who
>> >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
>> sticker
>> >on their vehicle.
>> > This is just my opinion but I believe it
>> would
>> >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
>> line
>> >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
>> a
>> >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
>> >with anything that has wheels.
>> > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
>> of
>> >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
>> >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
>> (sp).
>> > Jim Lambertus
>>
>> I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
>> been involved in the
>> fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
>> 28 years old, my first
>> brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
>> year old riding a dirt
>> bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
>> fight was WITH A
>> SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
>> to me.
>>
>> Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
>> as cutting off yer nose
>> to spite your face, which is more like what you are
>> actually accomplishing.
>>
>> Standing up for what you believe in is using all
>> methods and processes
>> available to you in order to keep our land open. If
>> a SC asks to come on a
>> cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
>> If we refuse them, and
>> tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
>> good in our fight?
>> Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
68590 From: azredrocker <gotrox@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
hey Jimmy, want to go have a beer? hehe
We're looking for a few good ROCK NAZI'S!!!
cheers,
Neal
--- In az_vjc@y..., jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...> wrote:
> First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
> directed to someone named Jim.
> Second If you want to align your self with the
> Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
> but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
> great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
> Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> Jim Lambertus
> --- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
> > who
> > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > sticker
> > >on their vehicle.
> > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > would
> > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
> > line
> > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
> > a
> > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
> > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
> > of
> > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
> > >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
> > (sp).
> > > Jim Lambertus
> >
> > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
> > been involved in the
> > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
> > 28 years old, my first
> > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > year old riding a dirt
> > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
> > fight was WITH A
> > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
> > to me.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
> > as cutting off yer nose
> > to spite your face, which is more like what you are
> > actually accomplishing.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > methods and processes
> > available to you in order to keep our land open. If
> > a SC asks to come on a
> > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
> > If we refuse them, and
> > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
> > good in our fight?
> > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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68591 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:11pm
Subject: Coves
Randy see what you started when you thought about cleaning up the coves.
Let's just go 4 wheeling and clean the cove.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimmy lambertus" <jeepnazus@y...>
To: "Daver" <daver@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> Are you?
> Jim Lambertus
> --- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > Are you reading for comprehension?
> >
> > At 09:03 AM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >Are you a member of the Sierra Club ?
> > > Jim Lambertus
> > >--- wheelenx2 <wheelenx2@y...> wrote:
> > > > > I am not going to Parker Splash this year and
> > had
> > > > planned to go out
> > > > > with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not
> > now.
> > > > I'll do it
> > > > > somewhere else with others that feel the same
> > way.
> > > >
> > > > "I'm taking my toys and going home." Would have
> > been
> > > > a more direct
> > > > way of getting your point across.
> > > >
> > > > And I say to you:
> > > >
> > > > Good, take your toys and your close minded "I
> > won't
> > > > even talk to the
> > > > enemy" and leave the clean-ups to the adults.
> > Your
> > > > attitude will
> > > > only serve to hurt the sport in the end.
> > > >
> > > > Grow Up a Little,
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
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>
>
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>
68592 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
First, you sent the email directly to me, in addition to the list. Not to
any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied apology for your mistake.
Second, I disagree with your statement that "allowing" (this is, after all,
public property, and they have as much of a right to be there as us, don't
let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra Clubbers at the clean up is
"aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt that even those who don't
mind the SC being there would wander around being "direct[ed]" by them.
At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
>First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
>directed to someone named Jim.
> Second If you want to align your self with the
>Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
>but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
>this official of the Sc directing all those " off
>roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
>great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
> Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> Jim Lambertus
>--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
> > who
> > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > sticker
> > >on their vehicle.
> > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > would
> > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
> > line
> > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
> > a
> > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
> > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
> > of
> > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
> > >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
> > (sp).
> > > Jim Lambertus
> >
> > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
> > been involved in the
> > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
> > 28 years old, my first
> > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > year old riding a dirt
> > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
> > fight was WITH A
> > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
> > to me.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
> > as cutting off yer nose
> > to spite your face, which is more like what you are
> > actually accomplishing.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > methods and processes
> > available to you in order to keep our land open. If
> > a SC asks to come on a
> > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
> > If we refuse them, and
> > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
> > good in our fight?
> > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68593 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Any time bro, I'll be out at the spook ralley this
weekend, if your in the neighborhood Iwill be in the
green beat up cj.
Jim
--- azredrocker <gotrox@c...> wrote:
> hey Jimmy, want to go have a beer? hehe
> We're looking for a few good ROCK NAZI'S!!!
>
> cheers,
>
> Neal
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
> wrote:
> > First, my question was not directed toward you,it
> was
> > directed to someone named Jim.
> > Second If you want to align your self with the
> > Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to
> you,
> > but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> > this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> > roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that
> as
> > great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> nose?
> > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> > Jim Lambertus
> > --- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> wrote:
> > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> person
> > > who
> > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > > sticker
> > > >on their vehicle.
> > > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > > would
> > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> all.Bottom
> > > line
> > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees
> us in
> > > a
> > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our
> land
> > > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> bottom
> > > of
> > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> than on
> > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> Kumbyah
> > > (sp).
> > > > Jim Lambertus
> > >
> > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> have
> > > been involved in the
> > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I
> am
> > > 28 years old, my first
> > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > > year old riding a dirt
> > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That
> first
> > > fight was WITH A
> > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything
> new
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > Standing up for what you believe in is not the
> same
> > > as cutting off yer nose
> > > to spite your face, which is more like what you
> are
> > > actually accomplishing.
> > >
> > > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > > methods and processes
> > > available to you in order to keep our land open.
> If
> > > a SC asks to come on a
> > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
> not.
> > > If we refuse them, and
> > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us
> any
> > > good in our fight?
> > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68594 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:34pm
Subject: Re: Engagement at Sedona a success!!!!!
Congratulations!!!
Great idea of proposing there.
I take it she likes Jeeps, I would only hope so.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
----- Original Message -----
From: <simbosi@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 12:42 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Engagement at Sedona a success!!!!!
> I want to thank everyone for the help and suggestions. The Mystic view
area provided an excellent location for a little wheeling, a fine picnic,
and poppin' the question. Fantastic views and no damn pink Jeeps.
>
> and yes, she did say YES!
>
> No for the wedding......does anyone have any tranquilizers for a
mother-in-law???
>
> thanks,
> David Simpso
> '02 TJ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68595 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:36am
Subject: TJ PT 4WD
I will try to keep this non technical......and I am sure that there are many more of you here that can explain this better than I but here is my take on it........ what it actually means is that he has an NV231 Xfer case which is no different than the ones we have back east here. The dealer obviously dont know what he is talking about. Part time simply means, dont use it all the time, like on hard roads, etc. He has REAL 4WD, well at least as real as you can get without lockers at both ends. The 242 Xfer case they use in Cherokees has a full time and part time mode, the full time you can run all the time if you want with little or no binding like you get with the PT mode. Tell your buddy not to worry, we dont have any better or different 4WD systems back east here. I guess in a nutshell, the dealer is full of chit, I would thing twice about asking him any more questions
Mike
68596 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the group
by the way his name is Jim. No apology was intended
or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
Isnt this fun
Jim Lambertus
--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> First, you sent the email directly to me, in
> addition to the list. Not to
> any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied apology
> for your mistake.
>
> Second, I disagree with your statement that
> "allowing" (this is, after all,
> public property, and they have as much of a right to
> be there as us, don't
> let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
> Clubbers at the clean up is
> "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt that
> even those who don't
> mind the SC being there would wander around being
> "direct[ed]" by them.
>
> At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> >First, my question was not directed toward you,it
> was
> >directed to someone named Jim.
> > Second If you want to align your self with the
> >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to
> you,
> >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> >this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
> >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> nose?
> > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> > Jim Lambertus
> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> wrote:
> > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> person
> > > who
> > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > > sticker
> > > >on their vehicle.
> > > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > > would
> > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> all.Bottom
> > > line
> > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees
> us in
> > > a
> > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our
> land
> > > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> bottom
> > > of
> > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> than on
> > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> Kumbyah
> > > (sp).
> > > > Jim Lambertus
> > >
> > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> have
> > > been involved in the
> > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I
> am
> > > 28 years old, my first
> > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > > year old riding a dirt
> > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That
> first
> > > fight was WITH A
> > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything
> new
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > Standing up for what you believe in is not the
> same
> > > as cutting off yer nose
> > > to spite your face, which is more like what you
> are
> > > actually accomplishing.
> > >
> > > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > > methods and processes
> > > available to you in order to keep our land open.
> If
> > > a SC asks to come on a
> > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
> not.
> > > If we refuse them, and
> > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us
> any
> > > good in our fight?
> > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
68597 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:48pm
Subject: [FS] 33 12.50 15 Thornbirds for sale
Price: 100.00
Contact: 623 703 0482
tires
Jason Jolley
68598 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hey, everyone is entitled to their own incorrect opinions =)
At 01:46 PM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the group
>by the way his name is Jim. No apology was intended
>or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
>opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
>involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
> Isnt this fun
> Jim Lambertus
>
>--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
>> First, you sent the email directly to me, in
>> addition to the list. Not to
>> any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied apology
>> for your mistake.
>>
>> Second, I disagree with your statement that
>> "allowing" (this is, after all,
>> public property, and they have as much of a right to
>> be there as us, don't
>> let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
>> Clubbers at the clean up is
>> "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt that
>> even those who don't
>> mind the SC being there would wander around being
>> "direct[ed]" by them.
>>
>> At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
>> >First, my question was not directed toward you,it
>> was
>> >directed to someone named Jim.
>> > Second If you want to align your self with the
>> >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to
>> you,
>> >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
>> >this official of the Sc directing all those " off
>> >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
>> >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
>> nose?
>> > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
>> > Jim Lambertus
>> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
>> > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
>> wrote:
>> > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
>> person
>> > > who
>> > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
>> > > sticker
>> > > >on their vehicle.
>> > > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
>> > > would
>> > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
>> all.Bottom
>> > > line
>> > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees
>> us in
>> > > a
>> > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our
>> land
>> > > >with anything that has wheels.
>> > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
>> bottom
>> > > of
>> > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
>> than on
>> > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
>> Kumbyah
>> > > (sp).
>> > > > Jim Lambertus
>> > >
>> > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
>> have
>> > > been involved in the
>> > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I
>> am
>> > > 28 years old, my first
>> > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
>> > > year old riding a dirt
>> > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That
>> first
>> > > fight was WITH A
>> > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything
>> new
>> > > to me.
>> > >
>> > > Standing up for what you believe in is not the
>> same
>> > > as cutting off yer nose
>> > > to spite your face, which is more like what you
>> are
>> > > actually accomplishing.
>> > >
>> > > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
>> > > methods and processes
>> > > available to you in order to keep our land open.
>> If
>> > > a SC asks to come on a
>> > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
>> not.
>> > > If we refuse them, and
>> > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us
>> any
>> > > good in our fight?
>> > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >__________________________________________________
>> >Do you Yahoo!?
>> >Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>> >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
>http://faith.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
68599 From: Dave oboyle <arizonaXj@h...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:52pm
Subject: Re: Hello!
Welcome to the group..
Dave
Rock Rash is better than Road Rash
Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
>From: "Bill Mish" <yldkat55@h...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"ajeepgirlinaz" <ajeepgirlinaz@y...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Hello!
>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:33:08 -0700
>
>Welcome!
>Hope to see you around.
>Be Good.
>Later.
>
>Bill Mish
>1955 Willys CJ3B
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "ajeepgirlinaz" <ajeepgirlinaz@y...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:13 PM
>Subject: [az_vjc] Hello!
>
>
> > Hi everyone! I'm Teresa. I just joined AZVJC a few days ago. A good
> > friend of mine, Duffy Ladd, told me this was a good place to meet
> > other 'Jeep people' and have a lot of fun! So far so good! Drop me a
> > line and say hello. Talk to you later.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN!
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
68600 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Yes THEY are:=)
--- intertwingled <intertwingled@q...> wrote:
>
> Hey, everyone is entitled to their own incorrect
> opinions =)
>
> At 01:46 PM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the
> group
> >by the way his name is Jim. No apology was
> intended
> >or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
> >opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
> >involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
> > Isnt this fun
> > Jim Lambertus
> >
> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> >> First, you sent the email directly to me, in
> >> addition to the list. Not to
> >> any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied
> apology
> >> for your mistake.
> >>
> >> Second, I disagree with your statement that
> >> "allowing" (this is, after all,
> >> public property, and they have as much of a right
> to
> >> be there as us, don't
> >> let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
> >> Clubbers at the clean up is
> >> "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt
> that
> >> even those who don't
> >> mind the SC being there would wander around being
> >> "direct[ed]" by them.
> >>
> >> At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> wrote:
> >> >First, my question was not directed toward
> you,it
> >> was
> >> >directed to someone named Jim.
> >> > Second If you want to align your self with
> the
> >> >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up
> to
> >> you,
> >> >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics
> of
> >> >this official of the Sc directing all those "
> off
> >> >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that
> as
> >> >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> >> nose?
> >> > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> >> > Jim Lambertus
> >> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> >> > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> >> person
> >> > > who
> >> > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra
> club
> >> > > sticker
> >> > > >on their vehicle.
> >> > > > This is just my opinion but I believe
> it
> >> > > would
> >> > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> >> all.Bottom
> >> > > line
> >> > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person
> sees
> >> us in
> >> > > a
> >> > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on
> our
> >> land
> >> > > >with anything that has wheels.
> >> > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> >> bottom
> >> > > of
> >> > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> >> than on
> >> > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> >> Kumbyah
> >> > > (sp).
> >> > > > Jim Lambertus
> >> > >
> >> > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> >> have
> >> > > been involved in the
> >> > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years.
> I
> >> am
> >> > > 28 years old, my first
> >> > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as
> a 5
> >> > > year old riding a dirt
> >> > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim.
> That
> >> first
> >> > > fight was WITH A
> >> > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't
> anything
> >> new
> >> > > to me.
> >> > >
> >> > > Standing up for what you believe in is not
> the
> >> same
> >> > > as cutting off yer nose
> >> > > to spite your face, which is more like what
> you
> >> are
> >> > > actually accomplishing.
> >> > >
> >> > > Standing up for what you believe in is using
> all
> >> > > methods and processes
> >> > > available to you in order to keep our land
> open.
> >> If
> >> > > a SC asks to come on a
> >> > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
> >> not.
> >> > > If we refuse them, and
> >> > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do
> us
> >> any
> >> > > good in our fight?
> >> > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >__________________________________________________
> >> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >> >Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web
> site
> >> >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> >http://faith.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> even the safest course is fraught with peril
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68601 From: jeepindog <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
If everyone is entitled to their opinion, then why can't they
voice (type) it, and instead are told to "GIVE IT A REST!!!!..."?
Just wondering what this world is coming to,
Lachlan MacLean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray B. [mailto:kb7skv@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:27 PM
> To: scramzilla
> Cc: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
> GUYS!!!! It's real simple. Invite her (them) they can come
anyway so
> what's the debate about?? Weather it changes their mind, bolsters
current
> thoughts, or does Nothing does NOT matter!! We're gonna clean the
Coves,
> people are gonna watch, and everyone is entitled to their own
opinion!!
> GIVE IT A REST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> See ya at the coves!
>
> Our .02
> Ray and Amanda
> AZAV8ER
>
> scramzilla wrote:
>
>
> You need to read all my threads....I have never said that they
>
> (whoever) should not be included in any cleanup. The
>
> "find yourself crumpled at the bottom of a chasm with others of
your
>
> kind while the rest of us standing together above find a solution
>
> which good for everyone." part of your email is grandiose at the
very
>
> least. All this "stuff", for lack of a better word, is
>
> opinion....nothing more.
>
>
>
> I believe in keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, so
>
> bring them to the cloves. I would never try to sway the weaker of
the
>
> SC members because they are NOT the ones running the show. I do my
>
> fighting at the BLM meetings and in the courts. This is the land
>
> issue battlefield of the 21st century and this is where the war
will
>
> be won or lost. Book it!
>
>
>
> Zilla
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe West" <mailto:joe.west@s...>
<joe.west@s...>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Steven,
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, this situation isn't quite as black and white as your
>
> email below might lead one to believe you think it is. Since we
>
>
>
> live in
>
>
>
> a free society, the Sierra Club is completely free to come out and
>
>
>
> watch
>
>
>
> us work.
>
> If they choose to try and point out something that we may do wrong
>
>
>
> (such
>
>
>
> as accidentally run over an endangered rock) during the cleanup, it
>
>
>
> will
>
>
>
> be a relatively easy task to show where our hearts were at and that
>
>
>
> we
>
>
>
> were indeed trying to do the right thing.
>
>
>
> I suspect that the Sierra Club is smart enough to know that pointing
>
> fingers at a group that is trying to do good things will result in
>
>
>
> their
>
>
>
> ultimate demise. While there are radicals on both sides (your
>
>
>
> comments
>
>
>
> below might lead one to believe that you are one of these) of the
>
> issues, I believe them to be in the minority, and I am thankful that
>
> they are.
>
>
>
> It takes a wise person to understand that ultimately, those who's
>
>
>
> goals
>
>
>
> are just will triumph. No matter what happens by bringing in the
>
>
>
> Sierra
>
>
>
> Club (albeit perhaps only one or two members) and showing them how
>
>
>
> we
>
>
>
> work together during the coves cleanup; the result will be positive.
>
>
>
> It is easy for narrow minds on both sides of the issue to not trust
>
>
>
> the
>
>
>
> other side. It is much more difficult to do the right thing
>
>
>
> always...
>
>
>
> regardless of the potential consequences. In this case Steven, the
>
> right thing is to clean up the coves and allow everyone who wants to
>
> watch or participate, to do so. Consider this; even if we did not
>
>
>
> want
>
>
>
> to include them, we cannot stop them. So why not invite them to
>
> participate in the hopes that they will see how earnestly we are
>
>
>
> trying
>
>
>
> to make amends for the ignorant slobs among our community who made
>
>
>
> the
>
>
>
> mess at the coves in the first place?
>
>
>
> I'll step down now... and allow you to comment if you wish. You
>
>
>
> stand
>
>
>
> on a platform that is indefensible, and right next to you stand the
>
> extremists from the other side. You fail to recognize that
>
>
>
> ultimately,
>
>
>
> the plank you stand on will fail, and you will find yourself
>
>
>
> crumpled at
>
>
>
> the bottom of a chasm with others of your kind while the rest of us
>
> standing together above find a solution which good for everyone.
>
>
>
> I look forward to your comments.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> Joe West
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: scramzilla [ mailto:steven.c.forrester@l
<mailto:steven.c.forrester@l>
> ...]
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:52 AM
>
> To: az_vjc@y...
>
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
>
> I don't care if the tree huggers comes to the cleanup or not. I
>
>
>
> still
>
>
>
> believe she is a Trojan Horse and you naive wheelers will probably
>
> end up with SC crap on your face. Hey! If I'm wrong, I'm wrong! But
>
>
>
> I
>
>
>
> would not trust one of those whacked out suck heads as far as I
>
>
>
> could
>
>
>
> kick them!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
68602 From: Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:57pm
Subject: Sierra Club invite - and BLM rep
Hello all
With a few notable exceptions, the responses I've received have supported inviting the Sierra Club to attend the Coves Cleanup. The invitation has been sent........the ball is in their court. Whether or not they attend, individually or in a group, is up to them.
On a much more important note: I posted a message regarding a representative from our group being sent to the BLM round table discussions for their new management plans at the same time as I sent the Sierra Club / Coves message. I've only received one response to the BLM question. Did everybody else skip that one? Let's get some discussion going on that subject......I need to get in touch with Horyza as soon as possible to make sure that our group gets an official part in the decision making process.
So far, the nominations for the BLM rep (from the one response) are Stu and myself. Is this something you want to do, Stu?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68603 From: Kent Warner <KnetAZ@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:57pm
Subject: RE-Introduce myself, and dusting off the wrenches
Hey all,
OK, well I am done lurking and getting back to working on my '74 CJ-
5, so I just wanted to say "Hi, I am back." Couple of questions on
what I am working on: First is that my steering column has a lot of
slop on the bottom end and a goofy steering wheel on the top, so I am
thinking of just replacing the whole thing. Any one have/know where
to get a steering column (manual steering) for a '74? Thinking of
putting on a Clifford or Offy 4 barrel manifold too, same question
there. Anyone have any suggestions on good Phoenix area junkyards to
scour?
Hopefully I can get this thing going and do a trail ride with y'all,
while there are still trails open.
Kent
68604 From: jeepindog <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Another donation just came to my desk....
Yeah, those guys at CFJ are great. Very helpful in finding my
paint code... Too bad it's not available in an aftermarket rattle
can. Has to be a "base coat/clear cote" application from a gun.
Guess I'll paint the insides of my front fenders black...
Lachlan
In az_vjc@y..., Mike Baney <jeepin_in_az@y...> wrote:
> Just wanted to say thanks to Cludge Sypinski at Chrysler Family
Jeep in
> PA!!! He heard about the clean up and sent out 2 boxes of stuff
for the
> raffle, shirts, cleaning kits, hat, and other stuff!!!
>
> Check them out www.familyparts.com
>
> They offer a 20% discount for clubs, and free shipping for orders
over
> $200.
>
>
> Have a good day all!
>
> Mike Baney
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68605 From: kmichael02 <kmichael02@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: -----[fs] 30 / 9.50 /15
these'll work great for the coves clean up!! Get em now, I want them
out of my garage.
futura mt's bout 75% thread...great tire to use for a while and see
if you really like mt's.
75$ obo.
480 967 9792
kmichael02@y...
68606 From: Janice Allison <jallison@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:03pm
Subject: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
You go Zilla! heh...
At 03:11 PM 10/24/02 -0400, Forrester, Steven C wrote:
>That's cool. I'll try to post more tonight when I can spend more time on the
>board. I have very strong opinions on this subject and would love nothing
>more than to keep this thread alive for days.....even at the risk of turning
>it into soporific drivel. ;-) I'll be at the Spook Rally if anyone wants to
>continue this discussion on and uninterrupted basis. But be warned, I like
>the open spaces that "this" chasm provides. :-)
>
>
>Zilla
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:52 PM
>To: 'scramzilla'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
>Thank you. I could stick to monosyllabic words but is much less fun for
>me to do so. As for the opinion part, indeed; most everything I write
>is my opinion unless I use the word fact in my pontifications.
>
>I think that this is a healthy discussion, and don't find it in the
>least bit destructive. I like hearing your opinion, and even more, I
>enjoy disagreeing with you and the resulting debate which occurs.
>
>I look forward to seeing you on the Coves cleanup.
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Joe West
>
>Zilla wrote:
>
>You need to read all my threads....I have never said that they
>(whoever) should not be included in any cleanup. The
>"find yourself crumpled at the bottom of a chasm with others of your
>kind while the rest of us standing together above find a solution
>which good for everyone." part of your email is grandiose at the very
>least. All this "stuff", for lack of a better word, is
>opinion....nothing more.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68607 From: azredrocker <gotrox@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:05pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hey Clay, I think you made a fan!
Neal
--- In az_vjc@y..., Janice Allison <jallison@a...> wrote:
> You go Zilla! heh...
>
>
> At 03:11 PM 10/24/02 -0400, Forrester, Steven C wrote:
> >That's cool. I'll try to post more tonight when I can spend more
time on the
> >board. I have very strong opinions on this subject and would love
nothing
> >more than to keep this thread alive for days.....even at the risk
of turning
> >it into soporific drivel. ;-) I'll be at the Spook Rally if anyone
wants to
> >continue this discussion on and uninterrupted basis. But be
warned, I like
> >the open spaces that "this" chasm provides. :-)
> >
> >
> >Zilla
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
> >Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:52 PM
> >To: 'scramzilla'; az_vjc@y...
> >Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> >
> >
> >Thank you. I could stick to monosyllabic words but is much less
fun for
> >me to do so. As for the opinion part, indeed; most everything I
write
> >is my opinion unless I use the word fact in my pontifications.
> >
> >I think that this is a healthy discussion, and don't find it in the
> >least bit destructive. I like hearing your opinion, and even
more, I
> >enjoy disagreeing with you and the resulting debate which occurs.
> >
> >I look forward to seeing you on the Coves cleanup.
> >
> >Kind Regards,
> >
> >Joe West
> >
> >Zilla wrote:
> >
> >You need to read all my threads....I have never said that they
> >(whoever) should not be included in any cleanup. The
> >"find yourself crumpled at the bottom of a chasm with others of
your
> >kind while the rest of us standing together above find a solution
> >which good for everyone." part of your email is grandiose at the
very
> >least. All this "stuff", for lack of a better word, is
> >opinion....nothing more.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68608 From: kmichael02 <kmichael02@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:06pm
Subject: Re: poll
took it off and threw it as far from the jeep as possible, never had
a problem, never thought about it since.
michael
--- In az_vjc@y..., "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...> wrote:
>
> To the club at large:
>
> Just wondering... How many YJ owners (and similar)
> have removed the rear track bar from his/her jeep?
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
>
> --
> even the safest course is fraught with peril
68609 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
First, I guess we are back to reading for comprehension again. The first
response was to him, the second ("Are you?") to me. It is really beside the
point so forget it.
Second, OK. I'm viewing _allowing them to come_ or _involving them in the
cleanup_ as the same thing. I can understand not subscribing to that view,
and will drop it.
Third, I understand your point, and yet still do not agree with it due to
the reasons outlined previously. I guess if something like that happens it
will fall under the old saying, "no good deed goes unpunished." Well,
that's how it goes I guess, but it won't stop me from doing the "right"
thing whenever possible.
At 01:46 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
>Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the group
>by the way his name is Jim. No apology was intended
>or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
>opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
>involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
> Isnt this fun
> Jim Lambertus
>
>--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > First, you sent the email directly to me, in
> > addition to the list. Not to
> > any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied apology
> > for your mistake.
> >
> > Second, I disagree with your statement that
> > "allowing" (this is, after all,
> > public property, and they have as much of a right to
> > be there as us, don't
> > let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
> > Clubbers at the clean up is
> > "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt that
> > even those who don't
> > mind the SC being there would wander around being
> > "direct[ed]" by them.
> >
> > At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >First, my question was not directed toward you,it
> > was
> > >directed to someone named Jim.
> > > Second If you want to align your self with the
> > >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to
> > you,
> > >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> > >this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> > >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
> > >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> > nose?
> > > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> > > Jim Lambertus
> > >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> > wrote:
> > > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> > person
> > > > who
> > > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > > > sticker
> > > > >on their vehicle.
> > > > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > > > would
> > > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> > all.Bottom
> > > > line
> > > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees
> > us in
> > > > a
> > > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our
> > land
> > > > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> > bottom
> > > > of
> > > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> > than on
> > > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> > Kumbyah
> > > > (sp).
> > > > > Jim Lambertus
> > > >
> > > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> > have
> > > > been involved in the
> > > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I
> > am
> > > > 28 years old, my first
> > > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > > > year old riding a dirt
> > > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That
> > first
> > > > fight was WITH A
> > > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything
> > new
> > > > to me.
> > > >
> > > > Standing up for what you believe in is not the
> > same
> > > > as cutting off yer nose
> > > > to spite your face, which is more like what you
> > are
> > > > actually accomplishing.
> > > >
> > > > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > > > methods and processes
> > > > available to you in order to keep our land open.
> > If
> > > > a SC asks to come on a
> > > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe
> > not.
> > > > If we refuse them, and
> > > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us
> > any
> > > > good in our fight?
> > > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
68610 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:09pm
Subject: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Does anyone other than me remember the paranoia that surrounded Brian
the Eco-NAZI environmental attorney when he joined the group? Remember
the "he's a spy" and other such rubbish?
Those who had to eat their words probably remember it well...
Turns out Brian is a great guy... just like it will turn out that the SC
members who join us will be great people.
Joe West
--- In az_vjc@y..., jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...> wrote:
> First, my question was not directed toward you,it was
> directed to someone named Jim.
> Second If you want to align your self with the
> Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up to you,
> but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics of
> this official of the Sc directing all those " off
> roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see that as
> great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos nose?
> Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> Jim Lambertus
> --- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> > >I just wanted to know if this was the same person
> > who
> > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra club
> > sticker
> > >on their vehicle.
> > > This is just my opinion but I believe it
> > would
> > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at all.Bottom
> > line
> > >is it wont make one iotta if this person sees us in
> > a
> > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on our land
> > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > I would rather be crumpled at the bottom
> > of
> > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in than on
> > >top holding hands with the enemy singing Kumbyah
> > (sp).
> > > Jim Lambertus
> >
> > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I have
> > been involved in the
> > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20 years. I am
> > 28 years old, my first
> > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as a 5
> > year old riding a dirt
> > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim. That first
> > fight was WITH A
> > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't anything new
> > to me.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is not the same
> > as cutting off yer nose
> > to spite your face, which is more like what you are
> > actually accomplishing.
> >
> > Standing up for what you believe in is using all
> > methods and processes
> > available to you in order to keep our land open. If
> > a SC asks to come on a
> > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe, maybe not.
> > If we refuse them, and
> > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that do us any
> > good in our fight?
> > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68611 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:08pm
Subject: RE: Sierra Club invite - and BLM rep
Both of you are excellent choices. I hope I don't have to pick between the two of you. :D
In my opinion we will get more done working with BLM.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Len Sullivan [mailto:kermitj10@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:57 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Sierra Club invite - and BLM rep
Hello all
With a few notable exceptions, the responses I've received have supported inviting the Sierra Club to attend the Coves Cleanup. The invitation has been sent........the ball is in their court. Whether or not they attend, individually or in a group, is up to them.
On a much more important note: I posted a message regarding a representative from our group being sent to the BLM round table discussions for their new management plans at the same time as I sent the Sierra Club / Coves message. I've only received one response to the BLM question. Did everybody else skip that one? Let's get some discussion going on that subject......I need to get in touch with Horyza as soon as possible to make sure that our group gets an official part in the decision making process.
So far, the nominations for the BLM rep (from the one response) are Stu and myself. Is this something you want to do, Stu?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
68612 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Ok first lets have a beer.Second lets have another to
toast our freedom to express our opinions no matter
how they differ.
Jim Lambertus
--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> First, I guess we are back to reading for
> comprehension again. The first
> response was to him, the second ("Are you?") to me.
> It is really beside the
> point so forget it.
>
> Second, OK. I'm viewing _allowing them to come_ or
> _involving them in the
> cleanup_ as the same thing. I can understand not
> subscribing to that view,
> and will drop it.
>
> Third, I understand your point, and yet still do not
> agree with it due to
> the reasons outlined previously. I guess if
> something like that happens it
> will fall under the old saying, "no good deed goes
> unpunished." Well,
> that's how it goes I guess, but it won't stop me
> from doing the "right"
> thing whenever possible.
>
> At 01:46 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus wrote:
> >Ok first I sent it directly to wheelinx2 and the
> group
> >by the way his name is Jim. No apology was
> intended
> >or implied.I will never apologize for expressing my
> >opinion.Second Did I say allow ? I believe I said
> >involve.Third I said a pic of the sc directing.
> > Isnt this fun
> > Jim Lambertus
> >
> >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > First, you sent the email directly to me, in
> > > addition to the list. Not to
> > > any so-called "Jim." I accept your implied
> apology
> > > for your mistake.
> > >
> > > Second, I disagree with your statement that
> > > "allowing" (this is, after all,
> > > public property, and they have as much of a
> right to
> > > be there as us, don't
> > > let us forget what we are fighting for) Sierra
> > > Clubbers at the clean up is
> > > "aligning" ourselves with them. I highly doubt
> that
> > > even those who don't
> > > mind the SC being there would wander around
> being
> > > "direct[ed]" by them.
> > >
> > > At 01:00 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy lambertus
> wrote:
> > > >First, my question was not directed toward
> you,it
> > > was
> > > >directed to someone named Jim.
> > > > Second If you want to align your self with
> the
> > > >Sierra Club in the eyes of the public thats up
> to
> > > you,
> > > >but the AZVJC is another matter. Wow a few pics
> of
> > > >this official of the Sc directing all those "
> off
> > > >roaders " cleaning up their mess. I can see
> that as
> > > >great publicity, FOR THEM.Whos cutting off whos
> > > nose?
> > > > Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
> > > > Jim Lambertus
> > > >--- Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > > > At 12:14 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, jimmy
> lambertus
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >I just wanted to know if this was the same
> > > person
> > > > > who
> > > > > >posted yesterday that they have a sierra
> club
> > > > > sticker
> > > > > >on their vehicle.
> > > > > > This is just my opinion but I
> believe it
> > > > > would
> > > > > >be a bad idea to involve them (sc) at
> > > all.Bottom
> > > > > line
> > > > > >is it wont make one iotta if this person
> sees
> > > us in
> > > > > a
> > > > > >different light, the Sc dosent want us on
> our
> > > land
> > > > > >with anything that has wheels.
> > > > > > I would rather be crumpled at the
> > > bottom
> > > > > of
> > > > > >the chasm standing up for what I believe in
> > > than on
> > > > > >top holding hands with the enemy singing
> > > Kumbyah
> > > > > (sp).
> > > > > > Jim Lambertus
> > > > >
> > > > > I have nothing to do with the Sierra Club. I
> > > have
> > > > > been involved in the
> > > > > fight for OHV access in AZ for over 20
> years. I
> > > am
> > > > > 28 years old, my first
> > > > > brush with access being cut off in AZ was as
> a 5
> > > > > year old riding a dirt
> > > > > bike (motorcycle) up on the Mogollon Rim.
> That
> > > first
> > > > > fight was WITH A
> > > > > SIERRA CLUBBER in the 1970s. This isn't
> anything
> > > new
> > > > > to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Standing up for what you believe in is not
> the
> > > same
> > > > > as cutting off yer nose
> > > > > to spite your face, which is more like what
> you
> > > are
> > > > > actually accomplishing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Standing up for what you believe in is using
> all
> > > > > methods and processes
> > > > > available to you in order to keep our land
> open.
> > > If
> > > > > a SC asks to come on a
> > > > > cleanup, will it do us any good? Maybe,
> maybe
> > > not.
> > > > > If we refuse them, and
> > > > > tell them to go jump off a cliff does that
> do us
> > > any
> > > > > good in our fight?
> > > > > Definitely not. So I choose maybe. *shrug*
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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