blooddrive
01-06-2004, 05:59 AM
68513-68537
68513 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:00pm
Subject: Re: AZ_VJC Splinter Clubs...
Well I might as well give my two cents worth here. The key word of the club is JEEP. Not that I have anything against Fords, Chevys, Dodges or the multitude of yuppie rice burners out there (hell yeah I do), but there is a just more than the love of the sport/recreation of wheeling that has brought all of us together, we must not forget that we belong to a brotherhood, we are Jeep owners. Jeep, the 1st, the one the only. If it were not for the proud heritage of the iron horses that we ride into the great outdoors I would hate to think that we would all be riding mules and horses with the Sierra Club on our beloved trails. I personally belong to 4 clubs and am proud to say that ALL 4 are JEEP ONLY clubs and I own more than a half dozen Jeeps and nothing else. There is something to be said about a line of 50-100 Jeeps going down the road together and people will look and probably envy. Would it really be the same with non-Jeeps in the convoy? Being part of a large Jeep convoy on several occaisions, I think not. Now having said that, I absolutely LOVED my first "run" with the AZVJC this past weekend in Sedona! The run was organised and led by a Toyota owner and I kept ribbing him all day about it but he and his other Toyota buddy were a great bunch of wheelers and I appreciated the opportunity to make my 1st run with the club with them. I also appreciated the opportunity to meet several Jeep members and got some great ideas for some of my rigs back home here. When I arrived with my gal in Sedona and introduced myself as Mike, one of the members said "Mike from PA, I emailed you". It made me feel good that someone remembered and didnt hold it against me that I didnt live in AZ, yet. I wish I could remember all the names of the people I met last weekend, but the only ones that really come to mind are Scott and John, who both were refreshingly enthusiastic on the trails, especially Scott......I think the funniest quote early in the day was for Scott to go home as they had already used 4 rolls of film on him alone and were running low......LOL.......hint, buy a digital camera, I took over 400 pics, probably 200 of Scott and John......way to go guys ! And by the way, that 2003 ZJ had 562 miles on it when I was done Sunday, and the only damage was minor on the underneath :-) .....The VJC is a GREAT club, there seems to be a great degree of comradery and a genuine love of the marque and the sport. I am so impressed with the willingness to help other members work on their rigs for a few cold ones and some grub. None of the other clubs I am in have such a commitment towards the sport or the members. I am one of the few people in my clubs here at home that will help someone install a lift kit or help out with mechanical problems.........hell I have even helped the guys in the Toyota club install lift kits (and you thought your XJ was a pain in the *** to lift, try one of them Toys sometime). Keep on doing what you are doing as you do it best. I cannot wait to find a job in my field in the Phoenix area so I can bring my Jeeps to spend more time with the club and of course my gal who lives there. Keep on fighting for your rights, take the SC on the clean ups and by all means, join them and infiltrate them, support the groups that lobby for your rights or you will be stuck as I am out here with having to pay $40 a day to go play in an ORV park like Paragon and be guided around by trail guides that have no sense of humor or adventure.
Mike
P.S. to Jason LaLiberty - thanks for the great by on the SYE kit, you were so right about those snap ring pliers.....dang them rings were a bear to get off but I got a set to put the new ones on......now if only I can get someone to help me get that darn 231 hooked back up I would be in business! Oh and BTW, you have a great looking TJ !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68514 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:08pm
Subject: Re: This good
In a message dated 10/23/2002 8:05:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time, James.Towle@asu.edu writes:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=972148818
Ya know... I would not be fond of anything I own haveing jeep on it....<<yes, insert evil laughing grin here>> but I got SAY.. I would have no problem at ALL.. with her wearing that... seeing that just made me think of a whole new fantas.... well.. never mind.
Nice find James
John k
68515 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Yeah, I read all of the mails and here is one I have to disagree with even if Neil is entitled to his opinion. It seems as if this so called "tree nazi", as he sort of hints she is, might be genuine. I personally dont think that all people that belong to the SC are bad and against what we like to do or want to close down the lands for public use. Saying that is like saying all Arabs are terrorists. I agree with the majority, lets give her a chance and get all you can get out of it, make sure you get some media coverage if you can to show or at least give the impression that we all can live together, respect and cooperate when it comes to the "outback". Just make sure when you go not to let anyone do any "cowboying".......hey Scott R, perhaps you should stay home that weekend :-)...........I come to Phoenix monthly to visit my gal and unfortunately that weekend I cant make it but I will fly out to make it to one of your clean ups in the near future if I dont move there 1st.
Give it a chance and see if it works out, see if she is genuine and sincere and get as much milage as you can out of it. It CANT hurt !
Mike
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:10:38 -0000
From: "azredrocker"
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Environmentalist rank right along with the Right to life freaks.
Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change that.
They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if she
isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will not
support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
The Rock Nazi
Neal Han****
ARC
68516 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:29pm
Subject: [FS] FACTORY CJ PADDED DASH
Price: $100.00
Contact: ERIC 623-330-2008
THIS IS A FACTORY BLACK PADDED DASH FROM AN 85 CJ-7 THAT WORKS WITH OR WITHOUT HARD TOP ( YOU CAN STILL OPEN THE WING WINDOWS ON THE HARD TOP ) COLOR IS BLACK AND HAS NO CRACKS WITH THE FADED WHITE OR SILVER JEEP WORD ON PASSENGER SIDE. THIS DASH PAD HAS BEEN IN STORAGE SINCE 1992.
ALSO HAVE:
SPEEDOMETER
FULL WIRING HARNESS FOR 85 CJ-7 WITH 258
NEW BELLHOUSING FOR 258
CALL FOR INFO
Eric John
68517 From: robert mcneeley <rubberside_up309@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 11:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Wow now I'm being called a freak... and no I am not part of the S.C. But that’s a subject for a different time....
So Neal, let me get this strait... We shouldn't have anything to do with them because a few, or a good amount, of them are fanatical... Something isn't adding up in your logic. Aren't you fanatical about the sport of wheeling and things of that nature? Thats nat a bad thing at all... However, if that’s the case why should the S.C. or any other group listen to you and your ideas about why trails need to be kept open? I don't agree with a lot of things that happen, but I don't stop listening to a person or discontinue the friendship because I don't like what they do or believe. If the SC, BLM, and others took your ideals when dealing with people that have beliefs opposed to yours, we would all be out of luck.
Step back, have a beer or two, and see if it is just your emotions getting the best of you on this thought. If not please continue down your path and I will see you on the other side. Im not out to flame you and I think its great that you will take a stand for something you see as wrong. Keep the faith!
Robert
azredrocker wrote:
Environmentalist rank right along with the Right to life freaks.
Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change that.
They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if she
isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will not
support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
The Rock Nazi
Neal Han****
ARC
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Bill" wrote:
> Overall I agree it will be nice to have an opportunity to show her
> what we're really like as opposed to what she thinks we're like.
But
> I suggest we not overestimate the impact that will have on her. For
> instance, it's been my experience that some of these Sierra Club-
type
> people view any intrusion into wilderness as evil. If that is the
> case with this lady, what will she think when she sees the first
> vehicle struggling up some hill and spinning tires? What will she
> think when she sees a large rock with black tire skid marks on it
or
> even paint from a vehicle that scraped on the way by? I'm not sure
> that showing her a good time offroad will really change her mind,
but
> it's worth a shot.
>
> John Muir's (the founder of Sierra Club over 100 years ago)
> philosophy was that he'd rather no one ever get to see certain
places
> (like Yosemite) rather than see people visit in great numbers which
> would surely destroy it, he felt. While he compromised some in
order
> to get Teddy Roosevelt to declare Yosemite a National Park, for
> example, some in the club still agree with Muir's original
> philosophy.
>
> Now on the other hand, if she's a Sierra Club member but not
hardcore
> and just wants to get involved to protect the environment then we
> have a chance with her. After all most Jeepers I've met have the
same
> philosophy as Teddy Roosevelt, which was that this land belongs to
> all of us and those to come after us and that we should be allowed
to
> see it and use it, albeit it in a way that doesn't destroy it. We
use
> it, enjoy it, clean it and preserve it for future generations. The
> last thing I want to do is destroy it.
>
>
>
> Bill
> www.jeepsonly.com
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > Hello again
> >
> > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
could
> be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and
she
> is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest
> Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request
and
> I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited
the
> Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten
> only the cold shoulder.
> .
> .
> .
> .
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68518 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:31am
Subject: [FS] baja/sandrail front ends
Price: 75.00 ~100.00 or ...... trade
Contact: brendan 480-986-8805 brendan@xterabytecomputers.com
I have about 5 0r 6 front ends for sandrails/ baja's. some are linkpin and some are are the newer type. give me call and lets talk.
things i need:
old boat
boat motor
misc boat or jeep stuff.
tools
need a welder :D
Brendan B. Rosier
68519 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Rob so I own an X-Terra, but I also own a JEEP. But ya know I can take a
jab.
Thanks for the laugh
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Williams" <g_rob_williams@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:42 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> I say invite them on one condition.... they all have to ride with a
> Jeeper!! Crawl up a couple of the hills and they will be converted!
> I have yet to take someone out wheelin and then not come back with a
> huge smile on thier face! Even my Mom who white knuckled the first
> hill at the coves became impressed after a couple hills! They'll be
> selling their Exterras (Joe Kearney!) and buying Jeeps!! LOL -Rob
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello again
> >
> > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
> could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman,
> and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
> Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her
> request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have
> invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past
> and gotten only the cold shoulder.
> >
> > She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of
> people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of
> their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss
> Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm
> inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well
> thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and
> discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the
> Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of
> fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
> >
> > So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the
> clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them?
> They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any
> time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate
> that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash
> throwing throttle jockeys?
> >
> > Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
> >
> > Len
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68520 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:24am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hey, is she cute? =)
Tony
At 05:14 AM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Rob so I own an X-Terra, but I also own a JEEP. But ya know I can take a
>jab.
>
>Thanks for the laugh
>
>Joe Kearney
>Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rob Williams" <g_rob_williams@y...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:42 AM
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
>> I say invite them on one condition.... they all have to ride with a
>> Jeeper!! Crawl up a couple of the hills and they will be converted!
>> I have yet to take someone out wheelin and then not come back with a
>> huge smile on thier face! Even my Mom who white knuckled the first
>> hill at the coves became impressed after a couple hills! They'll be
>> selling their Exterras (Joe Kearney!) and buying Jeeps!! LOL -Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello again
>> >
>> > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
>> could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman,
>> and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
>> Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her
>> request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have
>> invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past
>> and gotten only the cold shoulder.
>> >
>> > She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of
>> people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of
>> their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss
>> Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm
>> inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well
>> thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and
>> discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the
>> Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of
>> fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
>> >
>> > So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the
>> clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them?
>> They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any
>> time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate
>> that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash
>> throwing throttle jockeys?
>> >
>> > Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
>> >
>> > Len
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
68521 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:02am
Subject: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Neal,
The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an *****hole.
We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of us
*****holes? I hope not.
I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
conference. When I have a land management person tell me that they
wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an *****hole, (at
least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and federal
land management agencies! LOL
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I remember
not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They lied
their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in shutting
down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to take
the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to overturn
the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and let
them know they can kiss my axles!!
Neal Han****
ARC
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
> Len and all concerned:
> I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra Club's
main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources for
our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is that
contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we preach: "Tread
Lightly."
>
> I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club chapters
in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory serves me.
>
> I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH sides of
the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra Club
sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash all
over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members. 4x4'ers
see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
starts with communication and education.
>
> I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my KJ...
next to my Sierra Club decal!
> Steve T
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68522 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:29am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Gosh Stu, are you politely calling Neal an *****hole?
Hehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!
Boy, if I'm gonna stir this pot, I'm gonna need a bigger spoon!
You guys have a great day!
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "'azredrocker'" <gotrox@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 6:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> Neal,
>
> The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an *****hole.
> We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of us
> *****holes? I hope not.
>
> I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
> conference. When I have a land management person tell me that they
> wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
> starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an *****hole, (at
> least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
> community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and federal
> land management agencies! LOL
>
> Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
> Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I remember
> not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They lied
> their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in shutting
> down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to take
> the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to overturn
> the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and let
> them know they can kiss my axles!!
>
> Neal Han****
> ARC
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
> > Len and all concerned:
> > I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra Club's
> main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources for
> our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is that
> contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we preach: "Tread
> Lightly."
> >
> > I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club chapters
> in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory serves me.
> >
> > I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH sides of
> the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra Club
> sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash all
> over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members. 4x4'ers
> see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
> starts with communication and education.
> >
> > I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my KJ...
> next to my Sierra Club decal!
> > Steve T
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
68523 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:45am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Waaaait a second, she could be a spy for Sierra Club! =/
Tony
At 06:29 AM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Gosh Stu, are you politely calling Neal an *****hole?
>Hehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!
>Boy, if I'm gonna stir this pot, I'm gonna need a bigger spoon!
>You guys have a great day!
>
>Bill Mish
>1955 Willys CJ3B
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: "'azredrocker'" <gotrox@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 6:02 AM
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
>> Neal,
>>
>> The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an *****hole.
>> We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of us
>> *****holes? I hope not.
>>
>> I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
>> conference. When I have a land management person tell me that they
>> wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
>> starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an *****hole, (at
>> least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
>> community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and federal
>> land management agencies! LOL
>>
>> Stu
>>
>>
>> Stu Olson
>> www.stu-offroad.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>>
>> Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I remember
>> not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They lied
>> their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in shutting
>> down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to take
>> the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to overturn
>> the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and let
>> them know they can kiss my axles!!
>>
>> Neal Han****
>> ARC
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
>> > Len and all concerned:
>> > I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra Club's
>> main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources for
>> our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is that
>> contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we preach: "Tread
>> Lightly."
>> >
>> > I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club chapters
>> in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory serves me.
>> >
>> > I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH sides of
>> the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra Club
>> sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash all
>> over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members. 4x4'ers
>> see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
>> starts with communication and education.
>> >
>> > I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my KJ...
>> next to my Sierra Club decal!
>> > Steve T
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
68524 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:02am
Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
Just go into your profile on groups.yahoo.com, edit your groups and set
the group status to not send email.
az_vjc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:33:01 -0700
> From: "Scott Scriver" <scott@n...>
> Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
>
> I need to unsubscribe for a few weeks....how do I do it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
68525 From: <gotrox@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:31am
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hey Stu,
The state and federal agencies are another issue by its self. I have no problem with working with them. That is why I push so hard for people to join ASA, United 4wheelers and Blue Ribbon. Its not that I am singling out the SC individual, its more their association. They are on the opposite page from us and the Gov. is in the middle. Thats just the way I see it. I'm not an asshole, just someone who has extreme beliefs that oppose the SC. In my approach to the VJC I was only trying to play devils advocate. I apologize to those I may have offended.
Neal Han****,
ARC
"Say what you mean and mean what you say, the people that matter won't mind and the people the mind don't matter."
Dr. Seuss
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> Date: 2002/10/24 Thu AM 09:02:52 EDT
> To: "'azredrocker'" <gotrox@c...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
> Neal,
>
> The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an *****hole.
> We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of us
> *****holes? I hope not.
>
> I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
> conference. When I have a land management person tell me that they
> wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
> starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an *****hole, (at
> least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
> community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and federal
> land management agencies! LOL
>
> Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
> Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I remember
> not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They lied
> their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in shutting
> down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to take
> the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to overturn
> the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and let
> them know they can kiss my axles!!
>
> Neal Han****
> ARC
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
> > Len and all concerned:
> > I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra Club's
> main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources for
> our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is that
> contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we preach: "Tread
> Lightly."
> >
> > I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club chapters
> in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory serves me.
> >
> > I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH sides of
> the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra Club
> sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash all
> over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members. 4x4'ers
> see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
> starts with communication and education.
> >
> > I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my KJ...
> next to my Sierra Club decal!
> > Steve T
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
68526 From: scramzilla <steven.c.forrester@l...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:37am
Subject: Testing...1 2 3 testing.
This is only a test.
68527 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:39am
Subject: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Neal,
It would have been great to see you there at the clean up. I am sure
there will be plenty of people to fill the void. Besides this will
improve my chances of winning something. :)
But seriously I think being better then them by inviting them out can't
hurt.
Joey K
93YJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:11 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
> Environmentalist rank right along with the Right to life freaks.
> Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change that.
> They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
> down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if she
> isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will not
> support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
>
> I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
> with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
> somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
>
> The Rock Nazi
> Neal Han****
> ARC
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Bill" <bill@j...> wrote:
> > Overall I agree it will be nice to have an opportunity to show her
> > what we're really like as opposed to what she thinks we're like.
> But
> > I suggest we not overestimate the impact that will have on her. For
> > instance, it's been my experience that some of these Sierra Club-
> type
> > people view any intrusion into wilderness as evil. If that is the
> > case with this lady, what will she think when she sees the first
> > vehicle struggling up some hill and spinning tires? What will she
> > think when she sees a large rock with black tire skid marks on it
> or
> > even paint from a vehicle that scraped on the way by? I'm not sure
> > that showing her a good time offroad will really change her mind,
> but
> > it's worth a shot.
> >
> > John Muir's (the founder of Sierra Club over 100 years ago)
> > philosophy was that he'd rather no one ever get to see certain
> places
> > (like Yosemite) rather than see people visit in great numbers which
> > would surely destroy it, he felt. While he compromised some in
> order
> > to get Teddy Roosevelt to declare Yosemite a National Park, for
> > example, some in the club still agree with Muir's original
> > philosophy.
> >
> > Now on the other hand, if she's a Sierra Club member but not
> hardcore
> > and just wants to get involved to protect the environment then we
> > have a chance with her. After all most Jeepers I've met have the
> same
> > philosophy as Teddy Roosevelt, which was that this land belongs to
> > all of us and those to come after us and that we should be allowed
> to
> > see it and use it, albeit it in a way that doesn't destroy it. We
> use
> > it, enjoy it, clean it and preserve it for future generations. The
> > last thing I want to do is destroy it.
> >
> > </end of ramble>
> >
> > Bill
> > www.jeepsonly.com
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello again
> > >
> > > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
> could
> > be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and
> she
> > is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest
> > Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request
> and
> > I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited
> the
> > Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten
> > only the cold shoulder.
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68528 From: scramzilla <steven.c.forrester@l...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:41am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I agree! And don't apologize for what you believe.....JMO.
Zilla
--- In az_vjc@y..., <gotrox@c...> wrote:
> Hey Stu,
>
> The state and federal agencies are another issue by its self. I
have no problem with working with them. That is why I push so hard
for people to join ASA, United 4wheelers and Blue Ribbon. Its not
that I am singling out the SC individual, its more their association.
They are on the opposite page from us and the Gov. is in the middle.
Thats just the way I see it. I'm not an asshole, just someone who has
extreme beliefs that oppose the SC. In my approach to the VJC I was
only trying to play devils advocate. I apologize to those I may have
offended.
>
>
>
> Neal Han****,
> ARC
>
>
> "Say what you mean and mean what you say, the people that matter
won't mind and the people the mind don't matter."
> Dr. Seuss
>
>
>
> > From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> > Date: 2002/10/24 Thu AM 09:02:52 EDT
> > To: "'azredrocker'" <gotrox@c...>, az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> >
> > Neal,
> >
> > The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an
*****hole.
> > We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of
us
> > *****holes? I hope not.
> >
> > I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
> > conference. When I have a land management person tell me that
they
> > wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
> > starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an
*****hole, (at
> > least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
> > community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and
federal
> > land management agencies! LOL
> >
> > Stu
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> >
> > Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I
remember
> > not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They
lied
> > their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in
shutting
> > down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to
take
> > the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to
overturn
> > the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and
let
> > them know they can kiss my axles!!
> >
> > Neal Han****
> > ARC
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
> > > Len and all concerned:
> > > I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra
Club's
> > main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources
for
> > our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is
that
> > contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we
preach: "Tread
> > Lightly."
> > >
> > > I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club
chapters
> > in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory
serves me.
> > >
> > > I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH
sides of
> > the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra
Club
> > sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash
all
> > over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members.
4x4'ers
> > see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
> > starts with communication and education.
> > >
> > > I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my
KJ...
> > next to my Sierra Club decal!
> > > Steve T
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
68529 From: Smitty <jeepinsmitty@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:50am
Subject: Re: Re: Hello!
Duffy's job has been keeping him busy. Got to pay for all the toys!! lol
Smitty
roy95yj wrote:
--- In az_vjc@y..., "ajeepgirlinaz" wrote:
> Hi everyone! I'm Teresa. I just joined AZVJC a few days ago. A good
> friend of mine, Duffy Ladd, told me this was a good place to meet
> other 'Jeep people' and have a lot of fun! So far so good! Drop me
a
> line and say hello. Talk to you later.
Hello and welcome...
Where has Duffy been??
Roy
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68530 From: scramzilla <steven.c.forrester@l...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:52am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I don't care if the tree huggers comes to the cleanup or not. I still
believe she is a Trojan Horse and you naive wheelers will probably
end up with SC crap on your face. Hey! If I'm wrong, I'm wrong! But I
would not trust one of those whacked out suck heads as far as I could
kick them!
--- In az_vjc@y..., cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> Yeah, I read all of the mails and here is one I have to disagree
with even if
> Neil is entitled to his opinion. It seems as if this so
called "tree nazi",
> as he sort of hints she is, might be genuine. I personally dont
think that
> all people that belong to the SC are bad and against what we like
to do or
> want to close down the lands for public use. Saying that is like
saying all
> Arabs are terrorists. I agree with the majority, lets give her a
chance
> and get all you can get out of it, make sure you get some media
coverage if
> you can to show or at least give the impression that we all can
live
> together, respect and cooperate when it comes to the "outback".
Just make
> sure when you go not to let anyone do any "cowboying".......hey
Scott R,
> perhaps you should stay home that weekend :-)...........I come to
Phoenix
> monthly to visit my gal and unfortunately that weekend I cant make
it but I
> will fly out to make it to one of your clean ups in the near
future if I
> dont move there 1st.
>
> Give it a chance and see if it works out, see if she is genuine and
sincere
> and get as much milage as you can out of it. It CANT hurt !
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:10:38 -0000
> From: "azredrocker" <gotrox@c...>
> Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
> Environmentalist rank right along with the Right to life freaks.
> Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change
that.
> They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
> down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if
she
> isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will
not
> support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
>
> I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
> with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
> somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
>
> The Rock Nazi
> Neal Han****
> ARC
68531 From: scramzilla <steven.c.forrester@l...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:00am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
The difference is that they, (the SC), are WRONG! We are fighting for
what we have always had......Our land! The SC people are trying to
kick me off my land! Theses people are "F-up." Yon need to go to a
tree hugger meeting or hear one of there ilk talk at a BLM meeting.
WAKE UP DUDE!....You are dreaming!
--- In az_vjc@y..., robert mcneeley <rubberside_up309@y...> wrote:
>
> Wow now I'm being called a freak... and no I am not part of the
S.C. But that's a subject for a different time....
>
> So Neal, let me get this strait... We shouldn't have anything to do
with them because a few, or a good amount, of them are fanatical...
Something isn't adding up in your logic. Aren't you fanatical about
the sport of wheeling and things of that nature? Thats nat a bad
thing at all... However, if that's the case why should the S.C. or
any other group listen to you and your ideas about why trails need to
be kept open? I don't agree with a lot of things that happen, but I
don't stop listening to a person or discontinue the friendship
because I don't like what they do or believe. If the SC, BLM, and
others took your ideals when dealing with people that have beliefs
opposed to yours, we would all be out of luck.
>
> Step back, have a beer or two, and see if it is just your emotions
getting the best of you on this thought. If not please continue down
your path and I will see you on the other side. Im not out to flame
you and I think its great that you will take a stand for something
you see as wrong. Keep the faith!
>
> Robert
>
> azredrocker <gotrox@c...> wrote: Environmentalist rank right along
with the Right to life freaks.
> Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change
that.
> They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
> down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if
she
> isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will not
> support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
>
> I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
> with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
> somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
>
> The Rock Nazi
> Neal Han****
> ARC
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Bill" wrote:
> > Overall I agree it will be nice to have an opportunity to show
her
> > what we're really like as opposed to what she thinks we're like.
> But
> > I suggest we not overestimate the impact that will have on her.
For
> > instance, it's been my experience that some of these Sierra Club-
> type
> > people view any intrusion into wilderness as evil. If that is the
> > case with this lady, what will she think when she sees the first
> > vehicle struggling up some hill and spinning tires? What will she
> > think when she sees a large rock with black tire skid marks on it
> or
> > even paint from a vehicle that scraped on the way by? I'm not
sure
> > that showing her a good time offroad will really change her mind,
> but
> > it's worth a shot.
> >
> > John Muir's (the founder of Sierra Club over 100 years ago)
> > philosophy was that he'd rather no one ever get to see certain
> places
> > (like Yosemite) rather than see people visit in great numbers
which
> > would surely destroy it, he felt. While he compromised some in
> order
> > to get Teddy Roosevelt to declare Yosemite a National Park, for
> > example, some in the club still agree with Muir's original
> > philosophy.
> >
> > Now on the other hand, if she's a Sierra Club member but not
> hardcore
> > and just wants to get involved to protect the environment then we
> > have a chance with her. After all most Jeepers I've met have the
> same
> > philosophy as Teddy Roosevelt, which was that this land belongs
to
> > all of us and those to come after us and that we should be
allowed
> to
> > see it and use it, albeit it in a way that doesn't destroy it. We
> use
> > it, enjoy it, clean it and preserve it for future generations.
The
> > last thing I want to do is destroy it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill
> > www.jeepsonly.com
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello again
> > >
> > > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
> could
> > be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and
> she
> > is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
Southwest
> > Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request
> and
> > I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited
> the
> > Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten
> > only the cold shoulder.
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68532 From: Janice Allison <jallison@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:30am
Subject: Re: Jamboree trip report
Hey Thomas,
I'm with you -- thumbs up on the Jamboree. All I've seen posted so far are
negative comments. Yeah, the Jamboree was unorganized, but so what? You
make your own fun.
Jan
At 11:28 PM 10/23/02 +0000, Thomas wrote:
>This is the first trip report for me along with a lot of other first
>that happened on the trip.
>
>Showed up friday afternoon and met a few AVJC members arount the
>area. It was my first Jamboree and everyone was helpful.
>
>Sat. morning woke up at 05:30 watched the sunrise whlie drinking
>several cups of Uncle Sams finest coffee from the MRE's. Showed up
>at the staging area 45 minutes early, took a lot of pictures of the
>RUBICON with all the goodies on it and talked for awhile. He was the
>first person I met wearing more stuff with the Jeep logo that I was.
>Closer to start up time and there were three of us for the Coke
>Ovens, 2 jeeps and one Chevy s-10. Larry in the yellow Jeep went
>back to the tents and came back with the information there was no
>trail leader for our group just to go it ourselves. None of us had
>ever been there. Being I was the only one with maps, Well's infamous
>book , GPS & compass I was elected leader.
>
>We started out slow to keep the dust down. Kept pulling over to let
>the groups who knew where they were going pass us. There were 4
>vehicles to start with , but the stock Jeep turned around on the
>first obstical, he could have made it but decided not to take the
>chance.
>
>In the mission prep I pre programed my GPS for the Martinez Cabin
>and Coke Ovens runs. So every time the GPS alerted to one of Mr.
>Wells waypoints we turned. If I had known I was going to be the
>leader I would have had more detailed maps and copies for everyone.
>That and the assurance from other 4 wheelers we met that we were on
>the right trail we made it there and back. We all had a good time
>and enjoyed each others company. It was nice that at one spot on the
>trail we pulled aside for a group of 6 vehicles mostly pick ups
>coming up the hill, as they passed I could hear someone tell the
>rest of the group "Virtual Jeep in the lead" over their CB channel.
>I felt really good.
>
>I had to return home before the dinner, however I really enjoyed
>meeting several club members and hope to meet more in the future.
>
>Sincerely,
>Tom Fooshee
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Janice Allison, Business Manager
University of Arizona
Maricopa County Cooperative Extension
(602) 470-8086, ext. 362
68533 From: CoyotEddie <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:47am
Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
You must remove or change your own email delivery options, follow these instructions.
1. Go to www.azvjc.org
2. Log in with your name and password.
3. On the left column, 3rd from bottom select "E-Mail Options". This will take you to the Yahoo Groups "Edit my membership" page. NOTE: You may have to log in to Yahoo Groups to get there.
4. Scroll down to the bottom of the page.
5. Under "Message Delivery" select your option.
6. At the bottom of the page click the box "Save Changes"
7. If you want to leave the group, Skip steps 5 & 6, and click the box "Leave Group"
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Scriver
To: AzVJC
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:33 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] UNSUBSCRIBE
I need to unsubscribe for a few weeks....how do I do it?
Thanks,
Scott
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
68534 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:48am
Subject: [FS] FS 5SPEED MANUAL TRANS 2000TJ
Price: $1500.00
Contact: dalewhite@aol.com
NV3500 series 5 speed trans and clutch assembly complete with flywheel. No tranfercase. Out of 2000TJ with approx 35,000 miles. No damage history. Located Tucson area.
Dale White
68535 From: blt4rox <blt4rox@e...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:52am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I think some of you guys are forgetting what goes on at the coves.
There is a huge amount of drunken partying including trash dumping.
Most likely while you guys are out on your little clean up, your new
found SC buddy is going to see some drunk @ss hillbillies throwing
out their beer cans and running over vegetation. She's going to get
the impression (or strengthen one she's already formed) that most
wheelers act that way. Yes, she'll probably think that the AZVJCr's
(or at least some of them) are responsible, but that most wheelers
are like the coves' patrons. Face it, the vast majority of the
people that hang out at the coves don't shed the best light on our
sport.
2 cents,
Sean
--- In az_vjc@y..., "scramzilla" <steven.c.forrester@l...> wrote:
> The difference is that they, (the SC), are WRONG! We are fighting
for
> what we have always had......Our land! The SC people are trying to
> kick me off my land! Theses people are "F-up." Yon need to go to a
> tree hugger meeting or hear one of there ilk talk at a BLM meeting.
> WAKE UP DUDE!....You are dreaming!
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., robert mcneeley <rubberside_up309@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Wow now I'm being called a freak... and no I am not part of the
> S.C. But that's a subject for a different time....
> >
> > So Neal, let me get this strait... We shouldn't have anything to
do
> with them because a few, or a good amount, of them are fanatical...
> Something isn't adding up in your logic. Aren't you fanatical about
> the sport of wheeling and things of that nature? Thats nat a bad
> thing at all... However, if that's the case why should the S.C. or
> any other group listen to you and your ideas about why trails need
to
> be kept open? I don't agree with a lot of things that happen, but I
> don't stop listening to a person or discontinue the friendship
> because I don't like what they do or believe. If the SC, BLM, and
> others took your ideals when dealing with people that have beliefs
> opposed to yours, we would all be out of luck.
> >
> > Step back, have a beer or two, and see if it is just your
emotions
> getting the best of you on this thought. If not please continue
down
> your path and I will see you on the other side. Im not out to flame
> you and I think its great that you will take a stand for something
> you see as wrong. Keep the faith!
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > azredrocker <gotrox@c...> wrote: Environmentalist rank right
along
> with the Right to life freaks.
> > Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change
> that.
> > They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
> > down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if
> she
> > isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will
not
> > support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi
view.
> >
> > I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go
out
> > with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
> > somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
> >
> > The Rock Nazi
> > Neal Han****
> > ARC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Bill" wrote:
> > > Overall I agree it will be nice to have an opportunity to show
> her
> > > what we're really like as opposed to what she thinks we're
like.
> > But
> > > I suggest we not overestimate the impact that will have on her.
> For
> > > instance, it's been my experience that some of these Sierra
Club-
> > type
> > > people view any intrusion into wilderness as evil. If that is
the
> > > case with this lady, what will she think when she sees the
first
> > > vehicle struggling up some hill and spinning tires? What will
she
> > > think when she sees a large rock with black tire skid marks on
it
> > or
> > > even paint from a vehicle that scraped on the way by? I'm not
> sure
> > > that showing her a good time offroad will really change her
mind,
> > but
> > > it's worth a shot.
> > >
> > > John Muir's (the founder of Sierra Club over 100 years ago)
> > > philosophy was that he'd rather no one ever get to see certain
> > places
> > > (like Yosemite) rather than see people visit in great numbers
> which
> > > would surely destroy it, he felt. While he compromised some in
> > order
> > > to get Teddy Roosevelt to declare Yosemite a National Park, for
> > > example, some in the club still agree with Muir's original
> > > philosophy.
> > >
> > > Now on the other hand, if she's a Sierra Club member but not
> > hardcore
> > > and just wants to get involved to protect the environment then
we
> > > have a chance with her. After all most Jeepers I've met have
the
> > same
> > > philosophy as Teddy Roosevelt, which was that this land belongs
> to
> > > all of us and those to come after us and that we should be
> allowed
> > to
> > > see it and use it, albeit it in a way that doesn't destroy it.
We
> > use
> > > it, enjoy it, clean it and preserve it for future generations.
> The
> > > last thing I want to do is destroy it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > > www.jeepsonly.com
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello again
> > > >
> > > > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
> > could
> > > be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and
> > she
> > > is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
> Southwest
> > > Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request
> > and
> > > I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited
> > the
> > > Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and
gotten
> > > only the cold shoulder.
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68536 From: nodnarb320 <jeepinaz@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:00am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
It seem to me a few people, have forgotten why we are cleaning up
the coves. We are cleaning them up; to clean them up, not to
impress anyone.
Just my thought.
Brandon
68537 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Are you a member of the Sierra Club ?
Jim Lambertus
--- wheelenx2 <wheelenx2@y...> wrote:
> > I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had
> planned to go out
> > with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now.
> I'll do it
> > somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
>
> "I'm taking my toys and going home." Would have been
> a more direct
> way of getting your point across.
>
> And I say to you:
>
> Good, take your toys and your close minded "I won't
> even talk to the
> enemy" and leave the clean-ups to the adults. Your
> attitude will
> only serve to hurt the sport in the end.
>
> Grow Up a Little,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
68513 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:00pm
Subject: Re: AZ_VJC Splinter Clubs...
Well I might as well give my two cents worth here. The key word of the club is JEEP. Not that I have anything against Fords, Chevys, Dodges or the multitude of yuppie rice burners out there (hell yeah I do), but there is a just more than the love of the sport/recreation of wheeling that has brought all of us together, we must not forget that we belong to a brotherhood, we are Jeep owners. Jeep, the 1st, the one the only. If it were not for the proud heritage of the iron horses that we ride into the great outdoors I would hate to think that we would all be riding mules and horses with the Sierra Club on our beloved trails. I personally belong to 4 clubs and am proud to say that ALL 4 are JEEP ONLY clubs and I own more than a half dozen Jeeps and nothing else. There is something to be said about a line of 50-100 Jeeps going down the road together and people will look and probably envy. Would it really be the same with non-Jeeps in the convoy? Being part of a large Jeep convoy on several occaisions, I think not. Now having said that, I absolutely LOVED my first "run" with the AZVJC this past weekend in Sedona! The run was organised and led by a Toyota owner and I kept ribbing him all day about it but he and his other Toyota buddy were a great bunch of wheelers and I appreciated the opportunity to make my 1st run with the club with them. I also appreciated the opportunity to meet several Jeep members and got some great ideas for some of my rigs back home here. When I arrived with my gal in Sedona and introduced myself as Mike, one of the members said "Mike from PA, I emailed you". It made me feel good that someone remembered and didnt hold it against me that I didnt live in AZ, yet. I wish I could remember all the names of the people I met last weekend, but the only ones that really come to mind are Scott and John, who both were refreshingly enthusiastic on the trails, especially Scott......I think the funniest quote early in the day was for Scott to go home as they had already used 4 rolls of film on him alone and were running low......LOL.......hint, buy a digital camera, I took over 400 pics, probably 200 of Scott and John......way to go guys ! And by the way, that 2003 ZJ had 562 miles on it when I was done Sunday, and the only damage was minor on the underneath :-) .....The VJC is a GREAT club, there seems to be a great degree of comradery and a genuine love of the marque and the sport. I am so impressed with the willingness to help other members work on their rigs for a few cold ones and some grub. None of the other clubs I am in have such a commitment towards the sport or the members. I am one of the few people in my clubs here at home that will help someone install a lift kit or help out with mechanical problems.........hell I have even helped the guys in the Toyota club install lift kits (and you thought your XJ was a pain in the *** to lift, try one of them Toys sometime). Keep on doing what you are doing as you do it best. I cannot wait to find a job in my field in the Phoenix area so I can bring my Jeeps to spend more time with the club and of course my gal who lives there. Keep on fighting for your rights, take the SC on the clean ups and by all means, join them and infiltrate them, support the groups that lobby for your rights or you will be stuck as I am out here with having to pay $40 a day to go play in an ORV park like Paragon and be guided around by trail guides that have no sense of humor or adventure.
Mike
P.S. to Jason LaLiberty - thanks for the great by on the SYE kit, you were so right about those snap ring pliers.....dang them rings were a bear to get off but I got a set to put the new ones on......now if only I can get someone to help me get that darn 231 hooked back up I would be in business! Oh and BTW, you have a great looking TJ !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
68514 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:08pm
Subject: Re: This good
In a message dated 10/23/2002 8:05:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time, James.Towle@asu.edu writes:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=972148818
Ya know... I would not be fond of anything I own haveing jeep on it....<<yes, insert evil laughing grin here>> but I got SAY.. I would have no problem at ALL.. with her wearing that... seeing that just made me think of a whole new fantas.... well.. never mind.
Nice find James
John k
68515 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Yeah, I read all of the mails and here is one I have to disagree with even if Neil is entitled to his opinion. It seems as if this so called "tree nazi", as he sort of hints she is, might be genuine. I personally dont think that all people that belong to the SC are bad and against what we like to do or want to close down the lands for public use. Saying that is like saying all Arabs are terrorists. I agree with the majority, lets give her a chance and get all you can get out of it, make sure you get some media coverage if you can to show or at least give the impression that we all can live together, respect and cooperate when it comes to the "outback". Just make sure when you go not to let anyone do any "cowboying".......hey Scott R, perhaps you should stay home that weekend :-)...........I come to Phoenix monthly to visit my gal and unfortunately that weekend I cant make it but I will fly out to make it to one of your clean ups in the near future if I dont move there 1st.
Give it a chance and see if it works out, see if she is genuine and sincere and get as much milage as you can out of it. It CANT hurt !
Mike
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:10:38 -0000
From: "azredrocker"
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Environmentalist rank right along with the Right to life freaks.
Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change that.
They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if she
isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will not
support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
The Rock Nazi
Neal Han****
ARC
68516 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:29pm
Subject: [FS] FACTORY CJ PADDED DASH
Price: $100.00
Contact: ERIC 623-330-2008
THIS IS A FACTORY BLACK PADDED DASH FROM AN 85 CJ-7 THAT WORKS WITH OR WITHOUT HARD TOP ( YOU CAN STILL OPEN THE WING WINDOWS ON THE HARD TOP ) COLOR IS BLACK AND HAS NO CRACKS WITH THE FADED WHITE OR SILVER JEEP WORD ON PASSENGER SIDE. THIS DASH PAD HAS BEEN IN STORAGE SINCE 1992.
ALSO HAVE:
SPEEDOMETER
FULL WIRING HARNESS FOR 85 CJ-7 WITH 258
NEW BELLHOUSING FOR 258
CALL FOR INFO
Eric John
68517 From: robert mcneeley <rubberside_up309@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 11:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Wow now I'm being called a freak... and no I am not part of the S.C. But that’s a subject for a different time....
So Neal, let me get this strait... We shouldn't have anything to do with them because a few, or a good amount, of them are fanatical... Something isn't adding up in your logic. Aren't you fanatical about the sport of wheeling and things of that nature? Thats nat a bad thing at all... However, if that’s the case why should the S.C. or any other group listen to you and your ideas about why trails need to be kept open? I don't agree with a lot of things that happen, but I don't stop listening to a person or discontinue the friendship because I don't like what they do or believe. If the SC, BLM, and others took your ideals when dealing with people that have beliefs opposed to yours, we would all be out of luck.
Step back, have a beer or two, and see if it is just your emotions getting the best of you on this thought. If not please continue down your path and I will see you on the other side. Im not out to flame you and I think its great that you will take a stand for something you see as wrong. Keep the faith!
Robert
azredrocker wrote:
Environmentalist rank right along with the Right to life freaks.
Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change that.
They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if she
isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will not
support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
The Rock Nazi
Neal Han****
ARC
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Bill" wrote:
> Overall I agree it will be nice to have an opportunity to show her
> what we're really like as opposed to what she thinks we're like.
But
> I suggest we not overestimate the impact that will have on her. For
> instance, it's been my experience that some of these Sierra Club-
type
> people view any intrusion into wilderness as evil. If that is the
> case with this lady, what will she think when she sees the first
> vehicle struggling up some hill and spinning tires? What will she
> think when she sees a large rock with black tire skid marks on it
or
> even paint from a vehicle that scraped on the way by? I'm not sure
> that showing her a good time offroad will really change her mind,
but
> it's worth a shot.
>
> John Muir's (the founder of Sierra Club over 100 years ago)
> philosophy was that he'd rather no one ever get to see certain
places
> (like Yosemite) rather than see people visit in great numbers which
> would surely destroy it, he felt. While he compromised some in
order
> to get Teddy Roosevelt to declare Yosemite a National Park, for
> example, some in the club still agree with Muir's original
> philosophy.
>
> Now on the other hand, if she's a Sierra Club member but not
hardcore
> and just wants to get involved to protect the environment then we
> have a chance with her. After all most Jeepers I've met have the
same
> philosophy as Teddy Roosevelt, which was that this land belongs to
> all of us and those to come after us and that we should be allowed
to
> see it and use it, albeit it in a way that doesn't destroy it. We
use
> it, enjoy it, clean it and preserve it for future generations. The
> last thing I want to do is destroy it.
>
>
>
> Bill
> www.jeepsonly.com
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > Hello again
> >
> > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
could
> be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and
she
> is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest
> Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request
and
> I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited
the
> Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten
> only the cold shoulder.
> .
> .
> .
> .
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68518 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:31am
Subject: [FS] baja/sandrail front ends
Price: 75.00 ~100.00 or ...... trade
Contact: brendan 480-986-8805 brendan@xterabytecomputers.com
I have about 5 0r 6 front ends for sandrails/ baja's. some are linkpin and some are are the newer type. give me call and lets talk.
things i need:
old boat
boat motor
misc boat or jeep stuff.
tools
need a welder :D
Brendan B. Rosier
68519 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Rob so I own an X-Terra, but I also own a JEEP. But ya know I can take a
jab.
Thanks for the laugh
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Williams" <g_rob_williams@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:42 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> I say invite them on one condition.... they all have to ride with a
> Jeeper!! Crawl up a couple of the hills and they will be converted!
> I have yet to take someone out wheelin and then not come back with a
> huge smile on thier face! Even my Mom who white knuckled the first
> hill at the coves became impressed after a couple hills! They'll be
> selling their Exterras (Joe Kearney!) and buying Jeeps!! LOL -Rob
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello again
> >
> > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
> could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman,
> and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
> Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her
> request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have
> invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past
> and gotten only the cold shoulder.
> >
> > She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of
> people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of
> their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss
> Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm
> inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well
> thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and
> discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the
> Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of
> fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
> >
> > So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the
> clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them?
> They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any
> time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate
> that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash
> throwing throttle jockeys?
> >
> > Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
> >
> > Len
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68520 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:24am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hey, is she cute? =)
Tony
At 05:14 AM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Rob so I own an X-Terra, but I also own a JEEP. But ya know I can take a
>jab.
>
>Thanks for the laugh
>
>Joe Kearney
>Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rob Williams" <g_rob_williams@y...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:42 AM
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
>> I say invite them on one condition.... they all have to ride with a
>> Jeeper!! Crawl up a couple of the hills and they will be converted!
>> I have yet to take someone out wheelin and then not come back with a
>> huge smile on thier face! Even my Mom who white knuckled the first
>> hill at the coves became impressed after a couple hills! They'll be
>> selling their Exterras (Joe Kearney!) and buying Jeeps!! LOL -Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello again
>> >
>> > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
>> could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman,
>> and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
>> Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her
>> request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have
>> invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past
>> and gotten only the cold shoulder.
>> >
>> > She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of
>> people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of
>> their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss
>> Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm
>> inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well
>> thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and
>> discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the
>> Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of
>> fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
>> >
>> > So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the
>> clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them?
>> They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any
>> time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate
>> that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash
>> throwing throttle jockeys?
>> >
>> > Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
>> >
>> > Len
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
68521 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:02am
Subject: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Neal,
The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an *****hole.
We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of us
*****holes? I hope not.
I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
conference. When I have a land management person tell me that they
wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an *****hole, (at
least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and federal
land management agencies! LOL
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I remember
not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They lied
their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in shutting
down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to take
the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to overturn
the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and let
them know they can kiss my axles!!
Neal Han****
ARC
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
> Len and all concerned:
> I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra Club's
main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources for
our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is that
contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we preach: "Tread
Lightly."
>
> I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club chapters
in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory serves me.
>
> I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH sides of
the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra Club
sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash all
over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members. 4x4'ers
see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
starts with communication and education.
>
> I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my KJ...
next to my Sierra Club decal!
> Steve T
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68522 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:29am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Gosh Stu, are you politely calling Neal an *****hole?
Hehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!
Boy, if I'm gonna stir this pot, I'm gonna need a bigger spoon!
You guys have a great day!
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "'azredrocker'" <gotrox@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 6:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> Neal,
>
> The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an *****hole.
> We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of us
> *****holes? I hope not.
>
> I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
> conference. When I have a land management person tell me that they
> wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
> starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an *****hole, (at
> least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
> community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and federal
> land management agencies! LOL
>
> Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
> Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I remember
> not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They lied
> their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in shutting
> down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to take
> the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to overturn
> the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and let
> them know they can kiss my axles!!
>
> Neal Han****
> ARC
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
> > Len and all concerned:
> > I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra Club's
> main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources for
> our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is that
> contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we preach: "Tread
> Lightly."
> >
> > I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club chapters
> in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory serves me.
> >
> > I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH sides of
> the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra Club
> sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash all
> over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members. 4x4'ers
> see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
> starts with communication and education.
> >
> > I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my KJ...
> next to my Sierra Club decal!
> > Steve T
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
68523 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:45am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Waaaait a second, she could be a spy for Sierra Club! =/
Tony
At 06:29 AM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Gosh Stu, are you politely calling Neal an *****hole?
>Hehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!
>Boy, if I'm gonna stir this pot, I'm gonna need a bigger spoon!
>You guys have a great day!
>
>Bill Mish
>1955 Willys CJ3B
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: "'azredrocker'" <gotrox@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 6:02 AM
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
>> Neal,
>>
>> The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an *****hole.
>> We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of us
>> *****holes? I hope not.
>>
>> I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
>> conference. When I have a land management person tell me that they
>> wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
>> starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an *****hole, (at
>> least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
>> community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and federal
>> land management agencies! LOL
>>
>> Stu
>>
>>
>> Stu Olson
>> www.stu-offroad.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>>
>> Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I remember
>> not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They lied
>> their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in shutting
>> down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to take
>> the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to overturn
>> the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and let
>> them know they can kiss my axles!!
>>
>> Neal Han****
>> ARC
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
>> > Len and all concerned:
>> > I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra Club's
>> main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources for
>> our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is that
>> contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we preach: "Tread
>> Lightly."
>> >
>> > I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club chapters
>> in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory serves me.
>> >
>> > I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH sides of
>> the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra Club
>> sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash all
>> over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members. 4x4'ers
>> see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
>> starts with communication and education.
>> >
>> > I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my KJ...
>> next to my Sierra Club decal!
>> > Steve T
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
68524 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:02am
Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
Just go into your profile on groups.yahoo.com, edit your groups and set
the group status to not send email.
az_vjc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:33:01 -0700
> From: "Scott Scriver" <scott@n...>
> Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
>
> I need to unsubscribe for a few weeks....how do I do it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
68525 From: <gotrox@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:31am
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hey Stu,
The state and federal agencies are another issue by its self. I have no problem with working with them. That is why I push so hard for people to join ASA, United 4wheelers and Blue Ribbon. Its not that I am singling out the SC individual, its more their association. They are on the opposite page from us and the Gov. is in the middle. Thats just the way I see it. I'm not an asshole, just someone who has extreme beliefs that oppose the SC. In my approach to the VJC I was only trying to play devils advocate. I apologize to those I may have offended.
Neal Han****,
ARC
"Say what you mean and mean what you say, the people that matter won't mind and the people the mind don't matter."
Dr. Seuss
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> Date: 2002/10/24 Thu AM 09:02:52 EDT
> To: "'azredrocker'" <gotrox@c...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
> Neal,
>
> The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an *****hole.
> We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of us
> *****holes? I hope not.
>
> I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
> conference. When I have a land management person tell me that they
> wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
> starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an *****hole, (at
> least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
> community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and federal
> land management agencies! LOL
>
> Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
> Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I remember
> not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They lied
> their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in shutting
> down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to take
> the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to overturn
> the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and let
> them know they can kiss my axles!!
>
> Neal Han****
> ARC
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
> > Len and all concerned:
> > I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra Club's
> main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources for
> our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is that
> contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we preach: "Tread
> Lightly."
> >
> > I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club chapters
> in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory serves me.
> >
> > I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH sides of
> the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra Club
> sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash all
> over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members. 4x4'ers
> see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
> starts with communication and education.
> >
> > I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my KJ...
> next to my Sierra Club decal!
> > Steve T
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
68526 From: scramzilla <steven.c.forrester@l...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:37am
Subject: Testing...1 2 3 testing.
This is only a test.
68527 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:39am
Subject: RE: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Neal,
It would have been great to see you there at the clean up. I am sure
there will be plenty of people to fill the void. Besides this will
improve my chances of winning something. :)
But seriously I think being better then them by inviting them out can't
hurt.
Joey K
93YJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:11 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
>
> Environmentalist rank right along with the Right to life freaks.
> Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change that.
> They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
> down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if she
> isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will not
> support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
>
> I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
> with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
> somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
>
> The Rock Nazi
> Neal Han****
> ARC
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Bill" <bill@j...> wrote:
> > Overall I agree it will be nice to have an opportunity to show her
> > what we're really like as opposed to what she thinks we're like.
> But
> > I suggest we not overestimate the impact that will have on her. For
> > instance, it's been my experience that some of these Sierra Club-
> type
> > people view any intrusion into wilderness as evil. If that is the
> > case with this lady, what will she think when she sees the first
> > vehicle struggling up some hill and spinning tires? What will she
> > think when she sees a large rock with black tire skid marks on it
> or
> > even paint from a vehicle that scraped on the way by? I'm not sure
> > that showing her a good time offroad will really change her mind,
> but
> > it's worth a shot.
> >
> > John Muir's (the founder of Sierra Club over 100 years ago)
> > philosophy was that he'd rather no one ever get to see certain
> places
> > (like Yosemite) rather than see people visit in great numbers which
> > would surely destroy it, he felt. While he compromised some in
> order
> > to get Teddy Roosevelt to declare Yosemite a National Park, for
> > example, some in the club still agree with Muir's original
> > philosophy.
> >
> > Now on the other hand, if she's a Sierra Club member but not
> hardcore
> > and just wants to get involved to protect the environment then we
> > have a chance with her. After all most Jeepers I've met have the
> same
> > philosophy as Teddy Roosevelt, which was that this land belongs to
> > all of us and those to come after us and that we should be allowed
> to
> > see it and use it, albeit it in a way that doesn't destroy it. We
> use
> > it, enjoy it, clean it and preserve it for future generations. The
> > last thing I want to do is destroy it.
> >
> > </end of ramble>
> >
> > Bill
> > www.jeepsonly.com
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello again
> > >
> > > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
> could
> > be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and
> she
> > is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest
> > Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request
> and
> > I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited
> the
> > Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten
> > only the cold shoulder.
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68528 From: scramzilla <steven.c.forrester@l...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:41am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I agree! And don't apologize for what you believe.....JMO.
Zilla
--- In az_vjc@y..., <gotrox@c...> wrote:
> Hey Stu,
>
> The state and federal agencies are another issue by its self. I
have no problem with working with them. That is why I push so hard
for people to join ASA, United 4wheelers and Blue Ribbon. Its not
that I am singling out the SC individual, its more their association.
They are on the opposite page from us and the Gov. is in the middle.
Thats just the way I see it. I'm not an asshole, just someone who has
extreme beliefs that oppose the SC. In my approach to the VJC I was
only trying to play devils advocate. I apologize to those I may have
offended.
>
>
>
> Neal Han****,
> ARC
>
>
> "Say what you mean and mean what you say, the people that matter
won't mind and the people the mind don't matter."
> Dr. Seuss
>
>
>
> > From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> > Date: 2002/10/24 Thu AM 09:02:52 EDT
> > To: "'azredrocker'" <gotrox@c...>, az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> >
> > Neal,
> >
> > The way I see it, not everyone associated with a group is an
*****hole.
> > We have some in the 4 wheelin' community....so that makes all of
us
> > *****holes? I hope not.
> >
> > I personally feel I have made a difference at this weeks NOHVCC
> > conference. When I have a land management person tell me that
they
> > wished there were more off-roaders like me, I think the message is
> > starting to get through. Lucky for you and me I am not an
*****hole, (at
> > least ScottK said I wasn't!) right,....I could set the 4 wheelin'
> > community back 30 years in our relationships with the state and
federal
> > land management agencies! LOL
> >
> > Stu
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: azredrocker [mailto:gotrox@c...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
> >
> > Sorry for being the one who will go against the grain, but I
remember
> > not to long ago something about milkweeds and sand dunes. They
lied
> > their asses off and falsified documentation resulting in
shutting
> > down more than half of the Imperial Sand Dunes. It is going to
take
> > the BRC and the American Sand Assc. more than two years to
overturn
> > the damage if their lucky. You can take your sierra clubbers and
let
> > them know they can kiss my axles!!
> >
> > Neal Han****
> > ARC
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Twigg" <stwigg10@c...> wrote:
> > > Len and all concerned:
> > > I'm glad you met those two Sierra Club members. The Sierra
Club's
> > main concern, as I see it, is to preserve our natural resources
for
> > our grand children and great grand children: our posterity. Is
that
> > contrary to what we want? Not if we practice what we
preach: "Tread
> > Lightly."
> > >
> > > I don't know of any highways "adopted" by the Sierra Club
chapters
> > in Arizona, but there at least 2 in Wisconsin, if my memory
serves me.
> > >
> > > I think what it really boils down to is bad apples on BOTH
sides of
> > the issue. Both sides see the negative in the other: The Sierra
Club
> > sees the yahoo OHV'ers that tear up the desert and throw trash
all
> > over, and associate them with responsible 4x4 club members.
4x4'ers
> > see the tree spikers as the average conservationist. The solution
> > starts with communication and education.
> > >
> > > I got my AZVJC decal yesterday. Thanks Jon! It'll go on my
KJ...
> > next to my Sierra Club decal!
> > > Steve T
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
68529 From: Smitty <jeepinsmitty@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:50am
Subject: Re: Re: Hello!
Duffy's job has been keeping him busy. Got to pay for all the toys!! lol
Smitty
roy95yj wrote:
--- In az_vjc@y..., "ajeepgirlinaz" wrote:
> Hi everyone! I'm Teresa. I just joined AZVJC a few days ago. A good
> friend of mine, Duffy Ladd, told me this was a good place to meet
> other 'Jeep people' and have a lot of fun! So far so good! Drop me
a
> line and say hello. Talk to you later.
Hello and welcome...
Where has Duffy been??
Roy
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68530 From: scramzilla <steven.c.forrester@l...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:52am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I don't care if the tree huggers comes to the cleanup or not. I still
believe she is a Trojan Horse and you naive wheelers will probably
end up with SC crap on your face. Hey! If I'm wrong, I'm wrong! But I
would not trust one of those whacked out suck heads as far as I could
kick them!
--- In az_vjc@y..., cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> Yeah, I read all of the mails and here is one I have to disagree
with even if
> Neil is entitled to his opinion. It seems as if this so
called "tree nazi",
> as he sort of hints she is, might be genuine. I personally dont
think that
> all people that belong to the SC are bad and against what we like
to do or
> want to close down the lands for public use. Saying that is like
saying all
> Arabs are terrorists. I agree with the majority, lets give her a
chance
> and get all you can get out of it, make sure you get some media
coverage if
> you can to show or at least give the impression that we all can
live
> together, respect and cooperate when it comes to the "outback".
Just make
> sure when you go not to let anyone do any "cowboying".......hey
Scott R,
> perhaps you should stay home that weekend :-)...........I come to
Phoenix
> monthly to visit my gal and unfortunately that weekend I cant make
it but I
> will fly out to make it to one of your clean ups in the near
future if I
> dont move there 1st.
>
> Give it a chance and see if it works out, see if she is genuine and
sincere
> and get as much milage as you can out of it. It CANT hurt !
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:10:38 -0000
> From: "azredrocker" <gotrox@c...>
> Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
>
> Environmentalist rank right along with the Right to life freaks.
> Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change
that.
> They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
> down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if
she
> isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will
not
> support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
>
> I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
> with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
> somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
>
> The Rock Nazi
> Neal Han****
> ARC
68531 From: scramzilla <steven.c.forrester@l...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:00am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
The difference is that they, (the SC), are WRONG! We are fighting for
what we have always had......Our land! The SC people are trying to
kick me off my land! Theses people are "F-up." Yon need to go to a
tree hugger meeting or hear one of there ilk talk at a BLM meeting.
WAKE UP DUDE!....You are dreaming!
--- In az_vjc@y..., robert mcneeley <rubberside_up309@y...> wrote:
>
> Wow now I'm being called a freak... and no I am not part of the
S.C. But that's a subject for a different time....
>
> So Neal, let me get this strait... We shouldn't have anything to do
with them because a few, or a good amount, of them are fanatical...
Something isn't adding up in your logic. Aren't you fanatical about
the sport of wheeling and things of that nature? Thats nat a bad
thing at all... However, if that's the case why should the S.C. or
any other group listen to you and your ideas about why trails need to
be kept open? I don't agree with a lot of things that happen, but I
don't stop listening to a person or discontinue the friendship
because I don't like what they do or believe. If the SC, BLM, and
others took your ideals when dealing with people that have beliefs
opposed to yours, we would all be out of luck.
>
> Step back, have a beer or two, and see if it is just your emotions
getting the best of you on this thought. If not please continue down
your path and I will see you on the other side. Im not out to flame
you and I think its great that you will take a stand for something
you see as wrong. Keep the faith!
>
> Robert
>
> azredrocker <gotrox@c...> wrote: Environmentalist rank right along
with the Right to life freaks.
> Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change
that.
> They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
> down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if
she
> isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will not
> support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi view.
>
> I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go out
> with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
> somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
>
> The Rock Nazi
> Neal Han****
> ARC
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Bill" wrote:
> > Overall I agree it will be nice to have an opportunity to show
her
> > what we're really like as opposed to what she thinks we're like.
> But
> > I suggest we not overestimate the impact that will have on her.
For
> > instance, it's been my experience that some of these Sierra Club-
> type
> > people view any intrusion into wilderness as evil. If that is the
> > case with this lady, what will she think when she sees the first
> > vehicle struggling up some hill and spinning tires? What will she
> > think when she sees a large rock with black tire skid marks on it
> or
> > even paint from a vehicle that scraped on the way by? I'm not
sure
> > that showing her a good time offroad will really change her mind,
> but
> > it's worth a shot.
> >
> > John Muir's (the founder of Sierra Club over 100 years ago)
> > philosophy was that he'd rather no one ever get to see certain
> places
> > (like Yosemite) rather than see people visit in great numbers
which
> > would surely destroy it, he felt. While he compromised some in
> order
> > to get Teddy Roosevelt to declare Yosemite a National Park, for
> > example, some in the club still agree with Muir's original
> > philosophy.
> >
> > Now on the other hand, if she's a Sierra Club member but not
> hardcore
> > and just wants to get involved to protect the environment then we
> > have a chance with her. After all most Jeepers I've met have the
> same
> > philosophy as Teddy Roosevelt, which was that this land belongs
to
> > all of us and those to come after us and that we should be
allowed
> to
> > see it and use it, albeit it in a way that doesn't destroy it. We
> use
> > it, enjoy it, clean it and preserve it for future generations.
The
> > last thing I want to do is destroy it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill
> > www.jeepsonly.com
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello again
> > >
> > > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
> could
> > be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and
> she
> > is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
Southwest
> > Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request
> and
> > I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited
> the
> > Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten
> > only the cold shoulder.
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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68532 From: Janice Allison <jallison@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:30am
Subject: Re: Jamboree trip report
Hey Thomas,
I'm with you -- thumbs up on the Jamboree. All I've seen posted so far are
negative comments. Yeah, the Jamboree was unorganized, but so what? You
make your own fun.
Jan
At 11:28 PM 10/23/02 +0000, Thomas wrote:
>This is the first trip report for me along with a lot of other first
>that happened on the trip.
>
>Showed up friday afternoon and met a few AVJC members arount the
>area. It was my first Jamboree and everyone was helpful.
>
>Sat. morning woke up at 05:30 watched the sunrise whlie drinking
>several cups of Uncle Sams finest coffee from the MRE's. Showed up
>at the staging area 45 minutes early, took a lot of pictures of the
>RUBICON with all the goodies on it and talked for awhile. He was the
>first person I met wearing more stuff with the Jeep logo that I was.
>Closer to start up time and there were three of us for the Coke
>Ovens, 2 jeeps and one Chevy s-10. Larry in the yellow Jeep went
>back to the tents and came back with the information there was no
>trail leader for our group just to go it ourselves. None of us had
>ever been there. Being I was the only one with maps, Well's infamous
>book , GPS & compass I was elected leader.
>
>We started out slow to keep the dust down. Kept pulling over to let
>the groups who knew where they were going pass us. There were 4
>vehicles to start with , but the stock Jeep turned around on the
>first obstical, he could have made it but decided not to take the
>chance.
>
>In the mission prep I pre programed my GPS for the Martinez Cabin
>and Coke Ovens runs. So every time the GPS alerted to one of Mr.
>Wells waypoints we turned. If I had known I was going to be the
>leader I would have had more detailed maps and copies for everyone.
>That and the assurance from other 4 wheelers we met that we were on
>the right trail we made it there and back. We all had a good time
>and enjoyed each others company. It was nice that at one spot on the
>trail we pulled aside for a group of 6 vehicles mostly pick ups
>coming up the hill, as they passed I could hear someone tell the
>rest of the group "Virtual Jeep in the lead" over their CB channel.
>I felt really good.
>
>I had to return home before the dinner, however I really enjoyed
>meeting several club members and hope to meet more in the future.
>
>Sincerely,
>Tom Fooshee
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Janice Allison, Business Manager
University of Arizona
Maricopa County Cooperative Extension
(602) 470-8086, ext. 362
68533 From: CoyotEddie <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:47am
Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
You must remove or change your own email delivery options, follow these instructions.
1. Go to www.azvjc.org
2. Log in with your name and password.
3. On the left column, 3rd from bottom select "E-Mail Options". This will take you to the Yahoo Groups "Edit my membership" page. NOTE: You may have to log in to Yahoo Groups to get there.
4. Scroll down to the bottom of the page.
5. Under "Message Delivery" select your option.
6. At the bottom of the page click the box "Save Changes"
7. If you want to leave the group, Skip steps 5 & 6, and click the box "Leave Group"
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Scriver
To: AzVJC
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:33 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] UNSUBSCRIBE
I need to unsubscribe for a few weeks....how do I do it?
Thanks,
Scott
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
68534 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:48am
Subject: [FS] FS 5SPEED MANUAL TRANS 2000TJ
Price: $1500.00
Contact: dalewhite@aol.com
NV3500 series 5 speed trans and clutch assembly complete with flywheel. No tranfercase. Out of 2000TJ with approx 35,000 miles. No damage history. Located Tucson area.
Dale White
68535 From: blt4rox <blt4rox@e...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:52am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I think some of you guys are forgetting what goes on at the coves.
There is a huge amount of drunken partying including trash dumping.
Most likely while you guys are out on your little clean up, your new
found SC buddy is going to see some drunk @ss hillbillies throwing
out their beer cans and running over vegetation. She's going to get
the impression (or strengthen one she's already formed) that most
wheelers act that way. Yes, she'll probably think that the AZVJCr's
(or at least some of them) are responsible, but that most wheelers
are like the coves' patrons. Face it, the vast majority of the
people that hang out at the coves don't shed the best light on our
sport.
2 cents,
Sean
--- In az_vjc@y..., "scramzilla" <steven.c.forrester@l...> wrote:
> The difference is that they, (the SC), are WRONG! We are fighting
for
> what we have always had......Our land! The SC people are trying to
> kick me off my land! Theses people are "F-up." Yon need to go to a
> tree hugger meeting or hear one of there ilk talk at a BLM meeting.
> WAKE UP DUDE!....You are dreaming!
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., robert mcneeley <rubberside_up309@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Wow now I'm being called a freak... and no I am not part of the
> S.C. But that's a subject for a different time....
> >
> > So Neal, let me get this strait... We shouldn't have anything to
do
> with them because a few, or a good amount, of them are fanatical...
> Something isn't adding up in your logic. Aren't you fanatical about
> the sport of wheeling and things of that nature? Thats nat a bad
> thing at all... However, if that's the case why should the S.C. or
> any other group listen to you and your ideas about why trails need
to
> be kept open? I don't agree with a lot of things that happen, but I
> don't stop listening to a person or discontinue the friendship
> because I don't like what they do or believe. If the SC, BLM, and
> others took your ideals when dealing with people that have beliefs
> opposed to yours, we would all be out of luck.
> >
> > Step back, have a beer or two, and see if it is just your
emotions
> getting the best of you on this thought. If not please continue
down
> your path and I will see you on the other side. Im not out to flame
> you and I think its great that you will take a stand for something
> you see as wrong. Keep the faith!
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > azredrocker <gotrox@c...> wrote: Environmentalist rank right
along
> with the Right to life freaks.
> > Their fanatical in their beliefs and nothing is going to change
> that.
> > They steak out in trees for months so logging companies can't cut
> > down the trees. In fact they're almost militant, I don't care if
> she
> > isn't like the rest of the bunch. She still supports it! I will
not
> > support a cleanup with them. Just my narrow minded Rock Nazi
view.
> >
> > I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had planned to go
out
> > with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now. I'll do it
> > somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
> >
> > The Rock Nazi
> > Neal Han****
> > ARC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Bill" wrote:
> > > Overall I agree it will be nice to have an opportunity to show
> her
> > > what we're really like as opposed to what she thinks we're
like.
> > But
> > > I suggest we not overestimate the impact that will have on her.
> For
> > > instance, it's been my experience that some of these Sierra
Club-
> > type
> > > people view any intrusion into wilderness as evil. If that is
the
> > > case with this lady, what will she think when she sees the
first
> > > vehicle struggling up some hill and spinning tires? What will
she
> > > think when she sees a large rock with black tire skid marks on
it
> > or
> > > even paint from a vehicle that scraped on the way by? I'm not
> sure
> > > that showing her a good time offroad will really change her
mind,
> > but
> > > it's worth a shot.
> > >
> > > John Muir's (the founder of Sierra Club over 100 years ago)
> > > philosophy was that he'd rather no one ever get to see certain
> > places
> > > (like Yosemite) rather than see people visit in great numbers
> which
> > > would surely destroy it, he felt. While he compromised some in
> > order
> > > to get Teddy Roosevelt to declare Yosemite a National Park, for
> > > example, some in the club still agree with Muir's original
> > > philosophy.
> > >
> > > Now on the other hand, if she's a Sierra Club member but not
> > hardcore
> > > and just wants to get involved to protect the environment then
we
> > > have a chance with her. After all most Jeepers I've met have
the
> > same
> > > philosophy as Teddy Roosevelt, which was that this land belongs
> to
> > > all of us and those to come after us and that we should be
> allowed
> > to
> > > see it and use it, albeit it in a way that doesn't destroy it.
We
> > use
> > > it, enjoy it, clean it and preserve it for future generations.
> The
> > > last thing I want to do is destroy it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > > www.jeepsonly.com
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello again
> > > >
> > > > After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
> > could
> > > be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and
> > she
> > > is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
> Southwest
> > > Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request
> > and
> > > I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited
> > the
> > > Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and
gotten
> > > only the cold shoulder.
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68536 From: nodnarb320 <jeepinaz@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:00am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
It seem to me a few people, have forgotten why we are cleaning up
the coves. We are cleaning them up; to clean them up, not to
impress anyone.
Just my thought.
Brandon
68537 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Are you a member of the Sierra Club ?
Jim Lambertus
--- wheelenx2 <wheelenx2@y...> wrote:
> > I am not going to Parker Splash this year and had
> planned to go out
> > with the VJC to do the Cove clean up. But not now.
> I'll do it
> > somewhere else with others that feel the same way.
>
> "I'm taking my toys and going home." Would have been
> a more direct
> way of getting your point across.
>
> And I say to you:
>
> Good, take your toys and your close minded "I won't
> even talk to the
> enemy" and leave the clean-ups to the adults. Your
> attitude will
> only serve to hurt the sport in the end.
>
> Grow Up a Little,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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