blooddrive
01-06-2004, 06:58 AM
68413-68437
68413 From: Jake Wagner <jakewagner@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:45pm
Subject: [FS] Free TJ/XJ Rims
Someone has claimed them, thank you for all the responses.
Jake
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68414 From: Michael Wixom <h8pvmnt@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:49pm
Subject: Advance Adapters and SM 420 ( Sorry So Long)
This question is both for users or Advance Adapters adapters and those of you with SM 420 transmissions swapped into your Jeep. I recently had an SM 420 swapped into my CJ-7 with the stock 258 and Dana 300 using AA Adapters at both ends also put in all new clutch components including the release arm, linkage etc.. Immediately after installation the throwout bearing appeared to be bad, it would make a horrible tinny grinding sound when the clutch pedal was depressed. So out it came and a new throwout bearing went in. I was then off to the Rubicon trail. About halfway through the Rubicon I started to get a similar type of grinding happen when the clutch pedal was depressed but it was not as metallic as the first time. I made it through the Rubicon living with the noise and upon return out it came again this time a whole new clutch assy. and throwout bearing went in. Well to make a long story shorter, after a run to Crown King and about 300 miles of back roads during Elk season, the noise is back and it is almost constant whenever the clutch pedal is depressed. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this. Could the AA Bell housing be out of alignment with the centerline of the Transmission input or block face. The ambient temperature seems to have a dramatic effect on it also, the colder it is the worse the noise is. Any past experiences with AA or Sm 420's swaps would be appreciated. I am basically out of commission and still don't know what is wrong.
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
AZVJC / AZ Dust Devils,
ASA4WDC, Blue Ribbon Coalition,
Tread Lightly, Friends of the Rubicon
United Four Wheel Drive Clubs
68415 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:56pm
Subject: RE: Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a plea
I think it is time for a "make mine a flat fender party" I want that
done to my CJ.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:33 PM
To: purple
Cc: Joe West; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
plea
Another yummy clinic. I think Joe is an expert on that.
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 08:00 PM, purple wrote:
> I'm looking to put Willys front fenders on the XJ ....A clinic for
that
> too???? ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:08 PM
> To: 'DesertJeep'; 'Chris Krieg'; 'purple'
> Cc: 'roy95yj'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
> plea
>
>
> I'd be happy to host a "Swap your rectangular headlights for round
> headlights" technical workshop...
> <grin>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:39 PM
> To: 'Chris Krieg'; 'purple'
> Cc: 'roy95yj'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
> plea
>
> I up for that! You think Joe could gather all the required parts so we
> could have it done in an evening at his house? ;)
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:47 PM
> To: purple
> Cc: roy95yj; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
> plea
>
>
> Actually, a motor swap clinic would be fun.
>
> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 01:04 PM, purple wrote:
>
>> Thanks again for the kill switch help Joe , and tell Joyce thanks for
>> watching my son Dillon . He loved your orange cat . Can we have a
>> motor swap clinic next ?? ( just kidding ....)
>> Thanks again ,
>> Purple .
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: roy95yj [mailto:roy95yj@y...]
>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:05 AM
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a plea
>>
>>
>>>
>> Joe,
>> What more can I say that hasn't already been said,,, Thanks for
>> putting on the clinic.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who helped.
>>
>> There is one thing, next time we need some younger jeepers with good
>> eyes, we're getting to old to see some of the small wiring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Roy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68416 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a plea
Sounds fun to me.
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 08:56 PM, Joe-CJ7 wrote:
> I think it is time for a "make mine a flat fender party" I want that
> done to my CJ.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:33 PM
> To: purple
> Cc: Joe West; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
> plea
>
> Another yummy clinic. I think Joe is an expert on that.
>
> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 08:00 PM, purple wrote:
>
>> I'm looking to put Willys front fenders on the XJ ....A clinic for
> that
>> too???? ;)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:08 PM
>> To: 'DesertJeep'; 'Chris Krieg'; 'purple'
>> Cc: 'roy95yj'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
>> plea
>>
>>
>> I'd be happy to host a "Swap your rectangular headlights for round
>> headlights" technical workshop...
>> <grin>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:39 PM
>> To: 'Chris Krieg'; 'purple'
>> Cc: 'roy95yj'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
>> plea
>>
>> I up for that! You think Joe could gather all the required parts so we
>> could have it done in an evening at his house? ;)
>>
>> Joey K
>> 93YJ
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:47 PM
>> To: purple
>> Cc: roy95yj; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
>> plea
>>
>>
>> Actually, a motor swap clinic would be fun.
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 01:04 PM, purple wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks again for the kill switch help Joe , and tell Joyce thanks for
>>> watching my son Dillon . He loved your orange cat . Can we have a
>>> motor swap clinic next ?? ( just kidding ....)
>>> Thanks again ,
>>> Purple .
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: roy95yj [mailto:roy95yj@y...]
>>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:05 AM
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a plea
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>> Joe,
>>> What more can I say that hasn't already been said,,, Thanks for
>>> putting on the clinic.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who helped.
>>>
>>> There is one thing, next time we need some younger jeepers with good
>>> eyes, we're getting to old to see some of the small wiring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Roy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68417 From: Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:14pm
Subject: BLM planning rep wanted
Hello all
I was going to post this over the weekend, but I decided to wait until today so that it wouldn't get lost in the flood of Jamboree posts. With all the discussion about the "four wheeler's plight" and "good exposure" it may fit well into the discussion.
After the BLM scoping meeting last week, I was approached by Chris Horyza (the project manager for the management plan revision) and asked to approach our group about sending a representative to the round table meetings that will help determine the actual management plan.
Perhaps I should review a bit for all the people who didn't attend the meetings. The current BLM management plans for the Bradshaw-Harquahala area and the Agua Fria National Monument area were written in the 1980's. The valley has seen tremendous growth since that time, and consequently the number people using BLM lands for recreation has increased. Last year alone there were 90,000 ATV's sold in the metro Phoenix area. This increase in use has prompted the BLM to create new management plans for these two areas. This area encompasses over three MILLION acres of land in Maricopa and Yavapai counties.
The BLM is changing the way they write their management policies and wants to involve the public in a much greater way than ever before. Instead of receiving public input only at the beginning and end of the process, they (the BLM) are asking for help from all of the user groups during the inventory, analysis, and planning stages as well. This is where the rep from our group comes in.
I don't know why Mr. Horyza approached me with the proposition. Perhaps it was because I was the only person there wearing a red shirt. Maybe it was because of my superlative oratory powers (yeah right). I was the last person to speak at the meeting, so I had a decided advantage over all the other speakers in that I could rebut their statements but they couldn't really touch mine. One person brought up closing trails that ran through archaeological sites........I countered with the offer to re-direct the trails so that they went past the sites but not through them. One person mentioned trash left on the trails......I countered by asking him for specific information about areas that needed to be cleaned up and by mentioning the clean up efforts at the Coves, Table Mesa Road, and the White Tanks. (This is what prompted the Sierra Club person to ask to be invited....more on that later) Another person mentioned the lack of BLM enforcement powers (4 agents for 3 million acres)........I countered with an offer to be the "eyes and ears" of the BLM.
I didn't really say anything that I thought was "new" or "ground breaking"........perhaps I just got lucky and found a group that wasn't quite as rabid about their anti-OHV views. Or maybe....just maybe.....hearing someone offer to work with them on their concerns instead of the same old "I have a right to be there. Access for all. Thank you." made them realize that our groups really aren't that different --- we just use different modes of transportation.
Anyway........The meeting that we need to pick a rep for is on Saturday, November 23 and it is an ALL DAY workshop. Probably many more all day workshops will follow. This initial meeting is to discuss the Agua Fria National Monument area, with discussions about the Bradshaw - Harquahala area to follow later. THIS MEETING IS BY INVITATION ONLY and that invitation can only be issued by Mr. Horyza. He requested that I email him with the contact info for whomever our group selects as our rep so that he can send the appropriate invitation.
Why is this important? Because it will give us a voice in the inventory and planning stages of the new management plan, not just in the protest stage at the end. It's a chance for us to do more than ***** and complain after the fact. It's a chance to help write the whole damn thing.
Who should we send? If we were "organized" I would ask the chairman to open the floor for nominations. Since we aren't organized, just shout out your ideas.
Len
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68418 From: Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:33pm
Subject: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
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68419 From: Mike Golden <mgolden@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:45pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Len Sullivan wrote:
> So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Yeah! We don't throw trash! Now the slack jawed, beer guzzling throttle
jockey part I'm not so sure about... :-)
I say bring 'em.
Mike
68420 From: Ray B. <KB7SKV@C...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:57pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
We're with you on the "high road". As you said, they can go there and see the 'damage' any time. We vote for the 'take-em-along-and show-em how clean-minded we are' M.O.
Ray and Amanda
AZAV8ER
Len Sullivan wrote:
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68421 From: Ray B. <KB7SKV@C...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:04pm
Subject: Death Wobble Corrected!!
First... Thanks for ALL the suggestions!! As it turned out, it was the
Track-Bar relocation bracket. I checked everything else as suggested,
then with the XJ running I climbed under and had my wife turn the 'wheel
back and forth while I watched everything. Lo-and-behold...the bracket
was MOVING!! Well....NO MORE!! The repair- 1 welder, 2 1/8" 7018
rods, about $5 worth of electricity and it's good as new!! No more
wobble, and very low risk of it happening again :)
Thanks again for the suggestions gang!!
Ray and Amanda
AZAV8ER
68422 From: Mark Peterson <stinger75ih@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:00pm
Subject: Re: ASA4WDC
Jake and others,
Not all the clubs in the ASA4WDC have requirement on attending X
amount of meetings or X amount of runs; the one I am in does not have
any attendance requirements. Most clubs list their requirement out on
the ASA clubs page if you really want to find out what clubs do or
don't have requirements for.
As for the money, I don't know exactly where it all goes; but alot of
it is used for Arizona land use issue representation and legal issues
as well as being funneled up to National groups like United and Blue
Ribbon Coalition to provide legal support at the national level.
Purchasing land at Woodpecker mine to preserve our right of way was
one such use of money. As has been said, the jamboree is the one and
only real fund raiser for the ASA4WDC each year besides membership
dues. I think most people would be surprised at how small an amount
of money the ASA runs with each year. All officers and delegates of
ASA are volunteer positions, not paid other than some reimbursements
for selected/voted items. Come to a quarterly meeting and review the
budget yourself
Spending this amount for a once a year event won't seem so bad when
we are all coralled into OHV parks and forced to pay that every
weekend that we want to do some wheeling. Yeah, there were some screw
ups at the Jamboree this year... some the fault of the
ASA "volunteers" coordinating it, some the fault of land agencies,
and many the fault of not having enough volunteers to get the work
done. 2000+ people interested in 4 wheeling and we couldn't get
enough volunteers to lead less than a dozen trails each day and
coordinate tech inspection (even if they had lights). Everyone is
more than willing to enjoy it; but not enough step up to make it a
success.
As I have been pondering the events of the Jamboree, my observation
is we all are part of the failure too. I will keep contributing to
ASA, United, and Blue Ribbon beyond what the "dues" requirements are
in hopes that my children will enjoy what I am able to. And I will be
out at Jamboree again next year to volunteer and contribute if we
have one; and if others are out there doing the same it should be
even better than before. Just another thought, the ASA4WDC Jamboree
is still one of the lowest priced 4 wheel drive weekend events I can
think of. Desert Splash, Spook Ralley, and other events are
individual club fundraisers where the money is used by those clubs in
whatever manner they have planned.
Unfortunately there is more misinformtion and guessing going on than
any real fact finding and participation. Those are my observations.
Mark Peterson
--- In az_vjc@y..., Jake Wagner <jakewagner@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi All:
>
> I haven't taken the poll yet, but there's a few reasons why I have
not joined ASA4WDC. The first is I'm in the transportation industry
and I never know when I'm working so it's really hard for me to
attend X amount of club meetings, or meet the criteria to go on X
amount of trails per year. Second, all I ever hear is negative
things. I.E. A few have mentioned we're paying this money to be
represented, but where's the representation? The most recent from
what I've heard is that the Jamboree was a disappointment to a lot of
people.
>
> I don't see why I should have to pay a registration fee to run a
few trails I can run any other weekend? Especially since they put
such restrictions on it this year and all the agencies were out there
to see that it failed, which it sounds as if it was a let down for
most.
>
> My friend and I considered going to the Parker Splash that is
coming up in a few weekends, but the cost is ridiculious for a
weekend of wheeling. By the time we pay the registration fee, meal
fee, camp fee, put gas in the Jeep and bring food for lunch it's a
$200 weekend for 2 people in 1 Jeep. We usually go camping for 2 to
3 nights and run about 100-150 miles of trails and it only costs us
about $100 to take 2 Jeeps, 2 tanks of gas, feed 2 people, plus the
dog and still have food left over after we're done wheeling.
>
> I understand there are permits and other expenditures, but why so
much? I'm not saying don't be a member of ASA4WDC, just giving you
my observations.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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68423 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:26pm
Subject: Re: Advance Adapters and SM 420 ( Sorry So Long)
Sorry, Mike, I used a Novak adapter and have absolutely no problem with it.
You may try a search on the POR board, if nothing turns up, ask the question,
They seem to be more technical than this board.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Wixom
To: AZVJC
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:49 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Advance Adapters and SM 420 ( Sorry So Long)
This question is both for users or Advance Adapters adapters and those of you with SM 420 transmissions swapped into your Jeep. I recently had an SM 420 swapped into my CJ-7 with the stock 258 and Dana 300 using AA Adapters at both ends also put in all new clutch components including the release arm, linkage etc.. Immediately after installation the throwout bearing appeared to be bad, it would make a horrible tinny grinding sound when the clutch pedal was depressed. So out it came and a new throwout bearing went in. I was then off to the Rubicon trail. About halfway through the Rubicon I started to get a similar type of grinding happen when the clutch pedal was depressed but it was not as metallic as the first time. I made it through the Rubicon living with the noise and upon return out it came again this time a whole new clutch assy. and throwout bearing went in. Well to make a long story shorter, after a run to Crown King and about 300 miles of back roads during Elk season, the noise is back and it is almost constant whenever the clutch pedal is depressed. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this. Could the AA Bell housing be out of alignment with the centerline of the Transmission input or block face. The ambient temperature seems to have a dramatic effect on it also, the colder it is the worse the noise is. Any past experiences with AA or Sm 420's swaps would be appreciated. I am basically out of commission and still don't know what is wrong.
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
AZVJC / AZ Dust Devils,
ASA4WDC, Blue Ribbon Coalition,
Tread Lightly, Friends of the Rubicon
United Four Wheel Drive Clubs
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
68424 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:29pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
You are probably safe to invite them Len, as my slack jawed, tequila guzzling, throttle jockeying, *** will be in Parker.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Len Sullivan
To: AZVJC
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:33 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68425 From: purple <purp8@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:46pm
Subject: RE: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I , too , say bring them . Maybe we'll get some good P.R. sent back to the S.C. At the worst we might get a little insight into how these people think and give them a little to ponder also . The first time I ever heard of the Sierra Club it was just hiking club you could join and meet single women . None of the members that I knew had any idea what the hell their dues went for and none of them cared . I don't think 5% of the members know what the hell the 'Nazi Activist's members of their group even do . Since I'm a member of the A.S.A ( American Sand Assoc.), and we are ALWAYS having problems with this group , you just want to knock them all out . If you have ever been to the land use meetings for the dunes you'd know what I mean . I say that we should all join the S.C. and CHANGE ( mess up ) their agenda from inside the group . If we were actually members there would be all kinds of problems for them and it would make them look like (bigger) idiots . Plus we would be one step ahead of the game by actually knowing what some of their devious schemes are sooner . It would be sort of like having a couple thousand undercover cops in a drug ring . I think it would help us out immensely . Imagine if one of US was sent to BLM to represent the S.C. !!! Are you thinking the same thing I am ???? Sierra club members wearing red shirts .... It would be , like , double representation for the off roaders and NONE for the S.C.
Thoughts ?
Purple . ----Original Message-----
From: Ray B. [mailto:KB7SKV@CYBERTRAILS.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:57 PM
To: Len Sullivan
Cc: AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
We're with you on the "high road". As you said, they can go there and see the 'damage' any time. We vote for the 'take-em-along-and show-em how clean-minded we are' M.O.
Ray and Amanda
AZAV8ER
Len Sullivan wrote:
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
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68426 From: Dave oboyle <arizonaXj@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:46pm
Subject: RE: Re: ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
How about Highway to HELL!!!! :)
Dave
Rock Rash is better than Road Rash
Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
>From: "DesertJeep" <joey@d...>
>To: "'Janice Allison'" <jallison@a...>,"'Scott Kruize'"
><skruize@c...>,<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
>Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:58:29 -0700
>
>Why do we want to adopt a highway??
>
>Joey K
>93YJ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Janice Allison [mailto:jallison@a...]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:43 AM
>To: Scott Kruize; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
>
>
>http://www.dot.state.az.us/news/school/adopt/adopt.htm
>
>I contacted the Phoenix office to find out more about the
>Adopt-A-Highway
>program. Mark Schallio is the guy who issues permits (free of cost) and
>
>tells you what areas of Highway are available for adoption. Check out
>the
>web page, looks like with all our members, it shouldn't be a problem. I
>
>think it's a great idea. Maybe a poll is a good idea - gives some type
>of
>focal point to start with.
>
>Jan
>
>
>At 10:11 AM 10/22/02 -0700, Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> >If (big if) there were to be an organized club you would need to leave
> >the Azvjc Yahoo Group open to everyone. There is no need to exclude
> >anybody from the email list. That way no members would have to leave.
> >That's all I'm concerned about at the moment. We need a place for those
>
> >that want to share tech info, etc without being forced to join a true
> >club.
> >
> >There is no way all of the list members would join the organized club.
> >I'm betting you'd be lucky to get 10%. Really lucky.
> >
> >I like the AZVJC the way it is. Despite some of the arguments I've seen
>
> >I have seen more AZVJC members at the land use meetings than all the
> >organized clubs combined. I have seen the AZVJC get more exposure than
> >any other club.
> >
> >Like always, those that desire more can form a club or join an existing
>
> >one. The AZVJC has always been more of an information exchange than a
> >true club anyway. Its working wonderfully as is. Why screw that up?
> >
> >Scott K
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Leonard Garcia [mailto:leonardg@a...]
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:00 AM
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
> >
> >
> >OK, great. If you have an idea on how to get members to agree, let's
> >hear it.
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@y..., "kmichael02" <kmichael02@y...> wrote:
> > > we've been through this all before. Someone else can worry about
> >the
> > > poll that's only going to end up where it always has.
> > >
> > > I thought the issue was getting exposure in a positive light. That
> > > means getting out there and being visible. While cleaning up the
> > > coves is a very positive activity, and seemingly much needed on a
> > > routine basis, the exposure it presents is very limited and if any
> >is
> > > found via news, etc., it's somewhat pain staking. Surely any sign
> > > posted there would be shot to hell and ruined.
> > >
> > > Adopting a Highway gets you a big sign and many people see it,
> > > politicians, cops, advocates etc etc etc. I'm not saying this is
> >the
> > > only method or means to being recognized as "aware of our
> > > surroundings and worried about them," but it certainly is a start.
> > > Where else do you see any info about the vjc? A big sign on the
> >side
> > > of the highway with a picture of a jeep goes a long, long
> >way....hell
> > > the jeep is an american icon, only second in recogintion to the
> >damn
> > > vw bug.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm certain it would be noticed, and who can't spare time to pick
> >up
> > > trash with all of our "members"
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Leonard Garcia" <leonardg@a...> wrote:
> > > > Why don't you add a Poll (in the Polls section of this Yahoo
> >Group)
> > > > on that and on whether AzVJC should officially join ASA4WDC...
> >and
> > > > how to pay for it...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Siade, Randy" <randy.siade@u...> wrote:
> > > > > All clubs that are associated with the ASA have adopted trails.
> >I
> > > > also
> > > > > belong to the Arizona Dust Devils and our adopted trail is
> >Rocker
> > > > panel
> > > > > pass. We do clean ups on this trail about 2 times a year. I
> >have
> > > > suggested
> > > > > in the past and will suggest again that VJC adopt a trail and
> > > since
> > > > the VJC
> > > > > has had annual clean ups at the Coves I think we should adopt
> >it.
> > > > So what
> > > > > you all think?
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: kmichael02 [mailto:kmichael02@y...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:57 AM
> > > > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > > > Subject: [az_vjc] ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Club or no club...why not try to get constant exposure...such
> >as
> > > > > Adopting a section of highway or something...not sure if this
> >has
> > > > > ever been brought up but it gets you a sign, it's good for the
> > > > > community, it doesn't take a long time to complete, it's easy
> >to
> > > do
> > > > > and people notice Signs as well as 25 jeeps on the side of a
> > > > > highway...
> > > > >
> > > > > when a news chopper flys over and states there's a bottle neck
> >on
> > > > > such and such...and then flys in for a closer look and it's b/c
> > > > > people are rubber necking to watch a bunch of 4wheelers
> >cleaning
> > > up
> > > > > the environment, exposure in a positive manner....[assuming no
> > > one
> > > > > wrecks b/c of it ;)]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > just a thought
> > > > >
> > > > > michael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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68427 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:47pm
Subject: RE: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Len,
I think they are already invited. As the flyer says "Everyone is welcome even non-AzVJC members".
It will be funny if any of them win in the raffle. :(
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Len Sullivan [mailto:kermitj10@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:34 PM
To: AZVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68428 From: Dave oboyle <arizonaXj@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:54pm
Subject: Re: AZ_VJC Splinter Clubs...
If any changes should be made at all we should become the Arizona Virtual
Offroad club, This way all of the offroad community will be able to learn
and be involved like we are now..
Just my 2 cents..
Dave
Rock Rash is better than Road Rash
Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
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68429 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 0:42am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I say invite them on one condition.... they all have to ride with a
Jeeper!! Crawl up a couple of the hills and they will be converted!
I have yet to take someone out wheelin and then not come back with a
huge smile on thier face! Even my Mom who white knuckled the first
hill at the coves became impressed after a couple hills! They'll be
selling their Exterras (Joe Kearney!) and buying Jeeps!! LOL -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello again
>
> After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman,
and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her
request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have
invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past
and gotten only the cold shoulder.
>
> She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of
people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of
their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss
Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm
inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well
thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and
discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the
Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of
fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
>
> So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the
clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them?
They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any
time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate
that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash
throwing throttle jockeys?
>
> Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
>
> Len
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68430 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:58am
Subject: RE: Re: AZ_VJC Splinter Clubs...
Everyone should go back and read Stu's message about the conference he
has been attending. I think that answers the question whether or not we
are making an impact as the group currently is set up. I'm pasting it
after my signature for your convenience.
Scott K
Hi folks,
I am attending the NOHVCC (National Off Highway Vehicle Conservation
Council) conference in Scottsdale this week. I took a week's vacation
to do so, as I thought it would be a good step towards meeting the
multitude of land management officials (about 110 of them attending)
from all over Arizona plus a few from other states.
Anyway, to the point of this post.....they had an award presentation
late this afternoon....it was to honor the OHV clubs and an OHV
individual.
I am sorry to say that the AZVJC didn't receive the award. However, I
was extremely proud that we made one hell of a showing as they listed
the various activities/events we have done in the past year or two. (I
had been asked to supply a bunch of this information, as some of you may
remember me posting for help on this. Until today, I was under the
impression it was for some publicity stuff that a PR agency was doing
for one of the gov't agencies.) The award went to a ATV club who no
doubt did deserve it. They had 13 years of pretty darn good OHV support
in a variety of areas. None the less, we still stacked up pretty good
when our list of accomplishments was read. (For what it is worth, there
is 25 clubs that are part of the ASA4WDC.....there was about 5 groups
that made the list that was presented at the awards ceremony
today.....and AZVJC was in that group!)
Sandee McCullen was awarded the individual award for her work in the OHV
area. For those of you that know her, this should certainly come as no
surprise. I was most happy for her and she was pretty surprised when
they announced her name.
Just wanted to share some info with everyone.....and to make a point.
The AZVJC is being taken seriously by both the OHV community and by the
those we work with in the various land management agencies. That became
very obvious to me today.
I am very proud to be associated with this group!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave oboyle [mailto:arizonaXj@h...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:55 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: AZ_VJC Splinter Clubs...
If any changes should be made at all we should become the Arizona
Virtual
Offroad club, This way all of the offroad community will be able to
learn
and be involved like we are now..
Just my 2 cents..
Dave
Rock Rash is better than Road Rash Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
__________________________________________________ _______________
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68431 From: Mike Buckner <mbuckner@c...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 5:01am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
We should all join the Sierra Club -- Then they would hear more than one point of view
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: purple
To: Ray B. ; Len Sullivan
Cc: AZVJC
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:46 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I , too , say bring them . Maybe we'll get some good P.R. sent back to the S.C. At the worst we might get a little insight into how these people think and give them a little to ponder also . The first time I ever heard of the Sierra Club it was just hiking club you could join and meet single women . None of the members that I knew had any idea what the hell their dues went for and none of them cared . I don't think 5% of the members know what the hell the 'Nazi Activist's members of their group even do . Since I'm a member of the A.S.A ( American Sand Assoc.), and we are ALWAYS having problems with this group , you just want to knock them all out . If you have ever been to the land use meetings for the dunes you'd know what I mean . I say that we should all join the S.C. and CHANGE ( mess up ) their agenda from inside the group . If we were actually members there would be all kinds of problems for them and it would make them look like (bigger) idiots . Plus we would be one step ahead of the game by actually knowing what some of their devious schemes are sooner . It would be sort of like having a couple thousand undercover cops in a drug ring . I think it would help us out immensely . Imagine if one of US was sent to BLM to represent the S.C. !!! Are you thinking the same thing I am ???? Sierra club members wearing red shirts .... It would be , like , double representation for the off roaders and NONE for the S.C.
Thoughts ?
Purple . ----Original Message-----
From: Ray B. [mailto:KB7SKV@CYBERTRAILS.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:57 PM
To: Len Sullivan
Cc: AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
We're with you on the "high road". As you said, they can go there and see the 'damage' any time. We vote for the 'take-em-along-and show-em how clean-minded we are' M.O.
Ray and Amanda
AZAV8ER
Len Sullivan wrote:
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68432 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:02am
Subject: [FS] Jeep XJ Spare with cover
Price: $20
Contact: 480-206-3897 cell 480-699-9419 home
This came from my friend's XJ before he went to bigger tires. It's got the cover (tan in color) and the tire is on a Jeep rim (I think Alloy, I'm not sure). I think the tire is a 235x75x15.
Come get this for $20 or it's gonna get trashed.
Michael Soo
68433 From: armando cantu <mandocan22@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:05am
Subject: Question on why my jeep pulls when stoping
Hey all.
sorry to be a pain and asking a lot of questions here
but I guess this is the place to do it. I know that
some of you veteran jeepers can give us young and new
jeepers good tips.
The question is that when I go to stop my jeep pulls
to one side, also for some reason my front passenger
side is the only wheel that stops me. do I need a
whole new break system. I checked the pads and there
all good I tryed to adjust them but still only one
drum is working. oh yea there all 4 drum brakes.I
would apretiate any help answering this question.
p.s thaanks to all that reply
mando
yellow 79 CJ5
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68434 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:09am
Subject: [FS] (4) 235/75/15 for $100!
Price: $100
Contact: 480-206-3897 cell 480-699-9419 home
I've also got four Kirkland (costco) All Terrain type tires that are just sitting around after going to 37's. I'm asking 100, and they come on chrome steel rims for a Nissan. I can take them off the rims, but it's still 100. I'd say these tires have about 10k miles left. I'd also take an offer on these. They are just taking up space, so I'd probably go REAL low.. :D
Michael Soo
68435 From: Chris Villarreal <chris@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:14am
Subject: Re: ASA4WDC
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Mark Peterson" <stinger75ih@c...> wrote:
> Jake and others,
>
> >
> > My friend and I considered going to the Parker Splash that is
> coming up in a few weekends, but the cost is ridiculious for a
> weekend of wheeling. By the time we pay the registration fee, meal
> fee, camp fee, put gas in the Jeep and bring food for lunch it's a
> $200 weekend for 2 people in 1 Jeep. We usually go camping for 2
to
> 3 nights and run about 100-150 miles of trails and it only costs us
> about $100 to take 2 Jeeps, 2 tanks of gas, feed 2 people, plus the
> dog and still have food left over after we're done wheeling.
> >
> > I understand there are permits and other expenditures, but why so
> much? I'm not saying don't be a member of ASA4WDC, just giving you
> my observations.
You can't compare the cost of two friends wheeling on the weekend
with a 3 day event for hundreds of people. You and your friend don't
need to pay for porto-johns, BLM fees, insurance policies,
generators, DJ's, food for 500 people, several hundred t-shirts, etc,
etc, so of course your weekend excursion will be cheaper. Besides
the money raised by these events helps our cause. As a member of the
AZ Rough Riders I was proud we donated several thousand dollars to
charities last X-mas along with money for the fire relief efforts
last summer. Not bad for a 20 member club. BTW I am attending the
Desert Splash this year from the first time. For $60 I get a t-
shirt, camping and breakfast. As long as there is no trail carnage
that's cheaper than a movie and two meals for two (dinning out)on the
weekend.
68436 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:00am
Subject: Potential recall on 96-98 Jeep Grand Cherokee hood latches
Hi Gang,
I was listening to National Public Radio this morning and I heard that there
is an ongoing investigation into hood latch failures on the Grand Cherokee,
with most of the problems occurring on 1997 model year but some one 96 and
98. Perhaps this is already old news... but if you own one of these
vehicles, it might be a good idea to go take a look at your latch and give
it a nice shot of lubrication and make sure everything seems to be in
working order. Apparently, the failures occur at speed and the hood just
flies open... not a pretty picture.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
68437 From: CoyotEddie <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:06am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
After that take them out shooting, let them get the feel of an "assault rifle" that will clinch it for them.
I say invite them on one condition.... they all have to ride with a
Jeeper!! Crawl up a couple of the hills and they will be converted!
I have yet to take someone out wheelin and then not come back with a
huge smile on thier face! Even my Mom who white knuckled the first
hill at the coves became impressed after a couple hills! They'll be
selling their Exterras (Joe Kearney!) and buying Jeeps!! LOL -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello again
>
> After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman,
and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her
request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have
invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past
and gotten only the cold shoulder.
>
> She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of
people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of
their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss
Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm
inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well
thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and
discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the
Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of
fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
>
> So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the
clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them?
They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any
time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate
that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash
throwing throttle jockeys?
>
> Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
>
> Len
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68413 From: Jake Wagner <jakewagner@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:45pm
Subject: [FS] Free TJ/XJ Rims
Someone has claimed them, thank you for all the responses.
Jake
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68414 From: Michael Wixom <h8pvmnt@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:49pm
Subject: Advance Adapters and SM 420 ( Sorry So Long)
This question is both for users or Advance Adapters adapters and those of you with SM 420 transmissions swapped into your Jeep. I recently had an SM 420 swapped into my CJ-7 with the stock 258 and Dana 300 using AA Adapters at both ends also put in all new clutch components including the release arm, linkage etc.. Immediately after installation the throwout bearing appeared to be bad, it would make a horrible tinny grinding sound when the clutch pedal was depressed. So out it came and a new throwout bearing went in. I was then off to the Rubicon trail. About halfway through the Rubicon I started to get a similar type of grinding happen when the clutch pedal was depressed but it was not as metallic as the first time. I made it through the Rubicon living with the noise and upon return out it came again this time a whole new clutch assy. and throwout bearing went in. Well to make a long story shorter, after a run to Crown King and about 300 miles of back roads during Elk season, the noise is back and it is almost constant whenever the clutch pedal is depressed. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this. Could the AA Bell housing be out of alignment with the centerline of the Transmission input or block face. The ambient temperature seems to have a dramatic effect on it also, the colder it is the worse the noise is. Any past experiences with AA or Sm 420's swaps would be appreciated. I am basically out of commission and still don't know what is wrong.
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
AZVJC / AZ Dust Devils,
ASA4WDC, Blue Ribbon Coalition,
Tread Lightly, Friends of the Rubicon
United Four Wheel Drive Clubs
68415 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:56pm
Subject: RE: Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a plea
I think it is time for a "make mine a flat fender party" I want that
done to my CJ.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:33 PM
To: purple
Cc: Joe West; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
plea
Another yummy clinic. I think Joe is an expert on that.
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 08:00 PM, purple wrote:
> I'm looking to put Willys front fenders on the XJ ....A clinic for
that
> too???? ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:08 PM
> To: 'DesertJeep'; 'Chris Krieg'; 'purple'
> Cc: 'roy95yj'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
> plea
>
>
> I'd be happy to host a "Swap your rectangular headlights for round
> headlights" technical workshop...
> <grin>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:39 PM
> To: 'Chris Krieg'; 'purple'
> Cc: 'roy95yj'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
> plea
>
> I up for that! You think Joe could gather all the required parts so we
> could have it done in an evening at his house? ;)
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:47 PM
> To: purple
> Cc: roy95yj; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
> plea
>
>
> Actually, a motor swap clinic would be fun.
>
> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 01:04 PM, purple wrote:
>
>> Thanks again for the kill switch help Joe , and tell Joyce thanks for
>> watching my son Dillon . He loved your orange cat . Can we have a
>> motor swap clinic next ?? ( just kidding ....)
>> Thanks again ,
>> Purple .
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: roy95yj [mailto:roy95yj@y...]
>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:05 AM
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a plea
>>
>>
>>>
>> Joe,
>> What more can I say that hasn't already been said,,, Thanks for
>> putting on the clinic.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who helped.
>>
>> There is one thing, next time we need some younger jeepers with good
>> eyes, we're getting to old to see some of the small wiring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Roy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
68416 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a plea
Sounds fun to me.
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 08:56 PM, Joe-CJ7 wrote:
> I think it is time for a "make mine a flat fender party" I want that
> done to my CJ.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:33 PM
> To: purple
> Cc: Joe West; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
> plea
>
> Another yummy clinic. I think Joe is an expert on that.
>
> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 08:00 PM, purple wrote:
>
>> I'm looking to put Willys front fenders on the XJ ....A clinic for
> that
>> too???? ;)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:08 PM
>> To: 'DesertJeep'; 'Chris Krieg'; 'purple'
>> Cc: 'roy95yj'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
>> plea
>>
>>
>> I'd be happy to host a "Swap your rectangular headlights for round
>> headlights" technical workshop...
>> <grin>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:39 PM
>> To: 'Chris Krieg'; 'purple'
>> Cc: 'roy95yj'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
>> plea
>>
>> I up for that! You think Joe could gather all the required parts so we
>> could have it done in an evening at his house? ;)
>>
>> Joey K
>> 93YJ
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:47 PM
>> To: purple
>> Cc: roy95yj; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a
>> plea
>>
>>
>> Actually, a motor swap clinic would be fun.
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 01:04 PM, purple wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks again for the kill switch help Joe , and tell Joyce thanks for
>>> watching my son Dillon . He loved your orange cat . Can we have a
>>> motor swap clinic next ?? ( just kidding ....)
>>> Thanks again ,
>>> Purple .
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: roy95yj [mailto:roy95yj@y...]
>>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:05 AM
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Kill switch/Hood lock clinic success and a plea
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>> Joe,
>>> What more can I say that hasn't already been said,,, Thanks for
>>> putting on the clinic.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who helped.
>>>
>>> There is one thing, next time we need some younger jeepers with good
>>> eyes, we're getting to old to see some of the small wiring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Roy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
68417 From: Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:14pm
Subject: BLM planning rep wanted
Hello all
I was going to post this over the weekend, but I decided to wait until today so that it wouldn't get lost in the flood of Jamboree posts. With all the discussion about the "four wheeler's plight" and "good exposure" it may fit well into the discussion.
After the BLM scoping meeting last week, I was approached by Chris Horyza (the project manager for the management plan revision) and asked to approach our group about sending a representative to the round table meetings that will help determine the actual management plan.
Perhaps I should review a bit for all the people who didn't attend the meetings. The current BLM management plans for the Bradshaw-Harquahala area and the Agua Fria National Monument area were written in the 1980's. The valley has seen tremendous growth since that time, and consequently the number people using BLM lands for recreation has increased. Last year alone there were 90,000 ATV's sold in the metro Phoenix area. This increase in use has prompted the BLM to create new management plans for these two areas. This area encompasses over three MILLION acres of land in Maricopa and Yavapai counties.
The BLM is changing the way they write their management policies and wants to involve the public in a much greater way than ever before. Instead of receiving public input only at the beginning and end of the process, they (the BLM) are asking for help from all of the user groups during the inventory, analysis, and planning stages as well. This is where the rep from our group comes in.
I don't know why Mr. Horyza approached me with the proposition. Perhaps it was because I was the only person there wearing a red shirt. Maybe it was because of my superlative oratory powers (yeah right). I was the last person to speak at the meeting, so I had a decided advantage over all the other speakers in that I could rebut their statements but they couldn't really touch mine. One person brought up closing trails that ran through archaeological sites........I countered with the offer to re-direct the trails so that they went past the sites but not through them. One person mentioned trash left on the trails......I countered by asking him for specific information about areas that needed to be cleaned up and by mentioning the clean up efforts at the Coves, Table Mesa Road, and the White Tanks. (This is what prompted the Sierra Club person to ask to be invited....more on that later) Another person mentioned the lack of BLM enforcement powers (4 agents for 3 million acres)........I countered with an offer to be the "eyes and ears" of the BLM.
I didn't really say anything that I thought was "new" or "ground breaking"........perhaps I just got lucky and found a group that wasn't quite as rabid about their anti-OHV views. Or maybe....just maybe.....hearing someone offer to work with them on their concerns instead of the same old "I have a right to be there. Access for all. Thank you." made them realize that our groups really aren't that different --- we just use different modes of transportation.
Anyway........The meeting that we need to pick a rep for is on Saturday, November 23 and it is an ALL DAY workshop. Probably many more all day workshops will follow. This initial meeting is to discuss the Agua Fria National Monument area, with discussions about the Bradshaw - Harquahala area to follow later. THIS MEETING IS BY INVITATION ONLY and that invitation can only be issued by Mr. Horyza. He requested that I email him with the contact info for whomever our group selects as our rep so that he can send the appropriate invitation.
Why is this important? Because it will give us a voice in the inventory and planning stages of the new management plan, not just in the protest stage at the end. It's a chance for us to do more than ***** and complain after the fact. It's a chance to help write the whole damn thing.
Who should we send? If we were "organized" I would ask the chairman to open the floor for nominations. Since we aren't organized, just shout out your ideas.
Len
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68418 From: Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:33pm
Subject: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
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68419 From: Mike Golden <mgolden@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:45pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Len Sullivan wrote:
> So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Yeah! We don't throw trash! Now the slack jawed, beer guzzling throttle
jockey part I'm not so sure about... :-)
I say bring 'em.
Mike
68420 From: Ray B. <KB7SKV@C...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:57pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
We're with you on the "high road". As you said, they can go there and see the 'damage' any time. We vote for the 'take-em-along-and show-em how clean-minded we are' M.O.
Ray and Amanda
AZAV8ER
Len Sullivan wrote:
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68421 From: Ray B. <KB7SKV@C...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:04pm
Subject: Death Wobble Corrected!!
First... Thanks for ALL the suggestions!! As it turned out, it was the
Track-Bar relocation bracket. I checked everything else as suggested,
then with the XJ running I climbed under and had my wife turn the 'wheel
back and forth while I watched everything. Lo-and-behold...the bracket
was MOVING!! Well....NO MORE!! The repair- 1 welder, 2 1/8" 7018
rods, about $5 worth of electricity and it's good as new!! No more
wobble, and very low risk of it happening again :)
Thanks again for the suggestions gang!!
Ray and Amanda
AZAV8ER
68422 From: Mark Peterson <stinger75ih@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:00pm
Subject: Re: ASA4WDC
Jake and others,
Not all the clubs in the ASA4WDC have requirement on attending X
amount of meetings or X amount of runs; the one I am in does not have
any attendance requirements. Most clubs list their requirement out on
the ASA clubs page if you really want to find out what clubs do or
don't have requirements for.
As for the money, I don't know exactly where it all goes; but alot of
it is used for Arizona land use issue representation and legal issues
as well as being funneled up to National groups like United and Blue
Ribbon Coalition to provide legal support at the national level.
Purchasing land at Woodpecker mine to preserve our right of way was
one such use of money. As has been said, the jamboree is the one and
only real fund raiser for the ASA4WDC each year besides membership
dues. I think most people would be surprised at how small an amount
of money the ASA runs with each year. All officers and delegates of
ASA are volunteer positions, not paid other than some reimbursements
for selected/voted items. Come to a quarterly meeting and review the
budget yourself
Spending this amount for a once a year event won't seem so bad when
we are all coralled into OHV parks and forced to pay that every
weekend that we want to do some wheeling. Yeah, there were some screw
ups at the Jamboree this year... some the fault of the
ASA "volunteers" coordinating it, some the fault of land agencies,
and many the fault of not having enough volunteers to get the work
done. 2000+ people interested in 4 wheeling and we couldn't get
enough volunteers to lead less than a dozen trails each day and
coordinate tech inspection (even if they had lights). Everyone is
more than willing to enjoy it; but not enough step up to make it a
success.
As I have been pondering the events of the Jamboree, my observation
is we all are part of the failure too. I will keep contributing to
ASA, United, and Blue Ribbon beyond what the "dues" requirements are
in hopes that my children will enjoy what I am able to. And I will be
out at Jamboree again next year to volunteer and contribute if we
have one; and if others are out there doing the same it should be
even better than before. Just another thought, the ASA4WDC Jamboree
is still one of the lowest priced 4 wheel drive weekend events I can
think of. Desert Splash, Spook Ralley, and other events are
individual club fundraisers where the money is used by those clubs in
whatever manner they have planned.
Unfortunately there is more misinformtion and guessing going on than
any real fact finding and participation. Those are my observations.
Mark Peterson
--- In az_vjc@y..., Jake Wagner <jakewagner@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi All:
>
> I haven't taken the poll yet, but there's a few reasons why I have
not joined ASA4WDC. The first is I'm in the transportation industry
and I never know when I'm working so it's really hard for me to
attend X amount of club meetings, or meet the criteria to go on X
amount of trails per year. Second, all I ever hear is negative
things. I.E. A few have mentioned we're paying this money to be
represented, but where's the representation? The most recent from
what I've heard is that the Jamboree was a disappointment to a lot of
people.
>
> I don't see why I should have to pay a registration fee to run a
few trails I can run any other weekend? Especially since they put
such restrictions on it this year and all the agencies were out there
to see that it failed, which it sounds as if it was a let down for
most.
>
> My friend and I considered going to the Parker Splash that is
coming up in a few weekends, but the cost is ridiculious for a
weekend of wheeling. By the time we pay the registration fee, meal
fee, camp fee, put gas in the Jeep and bring food for lunch it's a
$200 weekend for 2 people in 1 Jeep. We usually go camping for 2 to
3 nights and run about 100-150 miles of trails and it only costs us
about $100 to take 2 Jeeps, 2 tanks of gas, feed 2 people, plus the
dog and still have food left over after we're done wheeling.
>
> I understand there are permits and other expenditures, but why so
much? I'm not saying don't be a member of ASA4WDC, just giving you
my observations.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
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68423 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:26pm
Subject: Re: Advance Adapters and SM 420 ( Sorry So Long)
Sorry, Mike, I used a Novak adapter and have absolutely no problem with it.
You may try a search on the POR board, if nothing turns up, ask the question,
They seem to be more technical than this board.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Wixom
To: AZVJC
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:49 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Advance Adapters and SM 420 ( Sorry So Long)
This question is both for users or Advance Adapters adapters and those of you with SM 420 transmissions swapped into your Jeep. I recently had an SM 420 swapped into my CJ-7 with the stock 258 and Dana 300 using AA Adapters at both ends also put in all new clutch components including the release arm, linkage etc.. Immediately after installation the throwout bearing appeared to be bad, it would make a horrible tinny grinding sound when the clutch pedal was depressed. So out it came and a new throwout bearing went in. I was then off to the Rubicon trail. About halfway through the Rubicon I started to get a similar type of grinding happen when the clutch pedal was depressed but it was not as metallic as the first time. I made it through the Rubicon living with the noise and upon return out it came again this time a whole new clutch assy. and throwout bearing went in. Well to make a long story shorter, after a run to Crown King and about 300 miles of back roads during Elk season, the noise is back and it is almost constant whenever the clutch pedal is depressed. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this. Could the AA Bell housing be out of alignment with the centerline of the Transmission input or block face. The ambient temperature seems to have a dramatic effect on it also, the colder it is the worse the noise is. Any past experiences with AA or Sm 420's swaps would be appreciated. I am basically out of commission and still don't know what is wrong.
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
AZVJC / AZ Dust Devils,
ASA4WDC, Blue Ribbon Coalition,
Tread Lightly, Friends of the Rubicon
United Four Wheel Drive Clubs
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
68424 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:29pm
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
You are probably safe to invite them Len, as my slack jawed, tequila guzzling, throttle jockeying, *** will be in Parker.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Len Sullivan
To: AZVJC
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:33 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68425 From: purple <purp8@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:46pm
Subject: RE: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I , too , say bring them . Maybe we'll get some good P.R. sent back to the S.C. At the worst we might get a little insight into how these people think and give them a little to ponder also . The first time I ever heard of the Sierra Club it was just hiking club you could join and meet single women . None of the members that I knew had any idea what the hell their dues went for and none of them cared . I don't think 5% of the members know what the hell the 'Nazi Activist's members of their group even do . Since I'm a member of the A.S.A ( American Sand Assoc.), and we are ALWAYS having problems with this group , you just want to knock them all out . If you have ever been to the land use meetings for the dunes you'd know what I mean . I say that we should all join the S.C. and CHANGE ( mess up ) their agenda from inside the group . If we were actually members there would be all kinds of problems for them and it would make them look like (bigger) idiots . Plus we would be one step ahead of the game by actually knowing what some of their devious schemes are sooner . It would be sort of like having a couple thousand undercover cops in a drug ring . I think it would help us out immensely . Imagine if one of US was sent to BLM to represent the S.C. !!! Are you thinking the same thing I am ???? Sierra club members wearing red shirts .... It would be , like , double representation for the off roaders and NONE for the S.C.
Thoughts ?
Purple . ----Original Message-----
From: Ray B. [mailto:KB7SKV@CYBERTRAILS.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:57 PM
To: Len Sullivan
Cc: AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
We're with you on the "high road". As you said, they can go there and see the 'damage' any time. We vote for the 'take-em-along-and show-em how clean-minded we are' M.O.
Ray and Amanda
AZAV8ER
Len Sullivan wrote:
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
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68426 From: Dave oboyle <arizonaXj@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:46pm
Subject: RE: Re: ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
How about Highway to HELL!!!! :)
Dave
Rock Rash is better than Road Rash
Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
>From: "DesertJeep" <joey@d...>
>To: "'Janice Allison'" <jallison@a...>,"'Scott Kruize'"
><skruize@c...>,<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
>Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:58:29 -0700
>
>Why do we want to adopt a highway??
>
>Joey K
>93YJ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Janice Allison [mailto:jallison@a...]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:43 AM
>To: Scott Kruize; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
>
>
>http://www.dot.state.az.us/news/school/adopt/adopt.htm
>
>I contacted the Phoenix office to find out more about the
>Adopt-A-Highway
>program. Mark Schallio is the guy who issues permits (free of cost) and
>
>tells you what areas of Highway are available for adoption. Check out
>the
>web page, looks like with all our members, it shouldn't be a problem. I
>
>think it's a great idea. Maybe a poll is a good idea - gives some type
>of
>focal point to start with.
>
>Jan
>
>
>At 10:11 AM 10/22/02 -0700, Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> >If (big if) there were to be an organized club you would need to leave
> >the Azvjc Yahoo Group open to everyone. There is no need to exclude
> >anybody from the email list. That way no members would have to leave.
> >That's all I'm concerned about at the moment. We need a place for those
>
> >that want to share tech info, etc without being forced to join a true
> >club.
> >
> >There is no way all of the list members would join the organized club.
> >I'm betting you'd be lucky to get 10%. Really lucky.
> >
> >I like the AZVJC the way it is. Despite some of the arguments I've seen
>
> >I have seen more AZVJC members at the land use meetings than all the
> >organized clubs combined. I have seen the AZVJC get more exposure than
> >any other club.
> >
> >Like always, those that desire more can form a club or join an existing
>
> >one. The AZVJC has always been more of an information exchange than a
> >true club anyway. Its working wonderfully as is. Why screw that up?
> >
> >Scott K
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Leonard Garcia [mailto:leonardg@a...]
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:00 AM
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
> >
> >
> >OK, great. If you have an idea on how to get members to agree, let's
> >hear it.
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@y..., "kmichael02" <kmichael02@y...> wrote:
> > > we've been through this all before. Someone else can worry about
> >the
> > > poll that's only going to end up where it always has.
> > >
> > > I thought the issue was getting exposure in a positive light. That
> > > means getting out there and being visible. While cleaning up the
> > > coves is a very positive activity, and seemingly much needed on a
> > > routine basis, the exposure it presents is very limited and if any
> >is
> > > found via news, etc., it's somewhat pain staking. Surely any sign
> > > posted there would be shot to hell and ruined.
> > >
> > > Adopting a Highway gets you a big sign and many people see it,
> > > politicians, cops, advocates etc etc etc. I'm not saying this is
> >the
> > > only method or means to being recognized as "aware of our
> > > surroundings and worried about them," but it certainly is a start.
> > > Where else do you see any info about the vjc? A big sign on the
> >side
> > > of the highway with a picture of a jeep goes a long, long
> >way....hell
> > > the jeep is an american icon, only second in recogintion to the
> >damn
> > > vw bug.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm certain it would be noticed, and who can't spare time to pick
> >up
> > > trash with all of our "members"
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Leonard Garcia" <leonardg@a...> wrote:
> > > > Why don't you add a Poll (in the Polls section of this Yahoo
> >Group)
> > > > on that and on whether AzVJC should officially join ASA4WDC...
> >and
> > > > how to pay for it...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Siade, Randy" <randy.siade@u...> wrote:
> > > > > All clubs that are associated with the ASA have adopted trails.
> >I
> > > > also
> > > > > belong to the Arizona Dust Devils and our adopted trail is
> >Rocker
> > > > panel
> > > > > pass. We do clean ups on this trail about 2 times a year. I
> >have
> > > > suggested
> > > > > in the past and will suggest again that VJC adopt a trail and
> > > since
> > > > the VJC
> > > > > has had annual clean ups at the Coves I think we should adopt
> >it.
> > > > So what
> > > > > you all think?
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: kmichael02 [mailto:kmichael02@y...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:57 AM
> > > > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > > > Subject: [az_vjc] ---------Idea on VJC Club exposure
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Club or no club...why not try to get constant exposure...such
> >as
> > > > > Adopting a section of highway or something...not sure if this
> >has
> > > > > ever been brought up but it gets you a sign, it's good for the
> > > > > community, it doesn't take a long time to complete, it's easy
> >to
> > > do
> > > > > and people notice Signs as well as 25 jeeps on the side of a
> > > > > highway...
> > > > >
> > > > > when a news chopper flys over and states there's a bottle neck
> >on
> > > > > such and such...and then flys in for a closer look and it's b/c
> > > > > people are rubber necking to watch a bunch of 4wheelers
> >cleaning
> > > up
> > > > > the environment, exposure in a positive manner....[assuming no
> > > one
> > > > > wrecks b/c of it ;)]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > just a thought
> > > > >
> > > > > michael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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68427 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:47pm
Subject: RE: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Len,
I think they are already invited. As the flyer says "Everyone is welcome even non-AzVJC members".
It will be funny if any of them win in the raffle. :(
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Len Sullivan [mailto:kermitj10@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:34 PM
To: AZVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68428 From: Dave oboyle <arizonaXj@h...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:54pm
Subject: Re: AZ_VJC Splinter Clubs...
If any changes should be made at all we should become the Arizona Virtual
Offroad club, This way all of the offroad community will be able to learn
and be involved like we are now..
Just my 2 cents..
Dave
Rock Rash is better than Road Rash
Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
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68429 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 0:42am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I say invite them on one condition.... they all have to ride with a
Jeeper!! Crawl up a couple of the hills and they will be converted!
I have yet to take someone out wheelin and then not come back with a
huge smile on thier face! Even my Mom who white knuckled the first
hill at the coves became impressed after a couple hills! They'll be
selling their Exterras (Joe Kearney!) and buying Jeeps!! LOL -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello again
>
> After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman,
and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her
request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have
invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past
and gotten only the cold shoulder.
>
> She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of
people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of
their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss
Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm
inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well
thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and
discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the
Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of
fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
>
> So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the
clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them?
They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any
time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate
that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash
throwing throttle jockeys?
>
> Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
>
> Len
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
68430 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:58am
Subject: RE: Re: AZ_VJC Splinter Clubs...
Everyone should go back and read Stu's message about the conference he
has been attending. I think that answers the question whether or not we
are making an impact as the group currently is set up. I'm pasting it
after my signature for your convenience.
Scott K
Hi folks,
I am attending the NOHVCC (National Off Highway Vehicle Conservation
Council) conference in Scottsdale this week. I took a week's vacation
to do so, as I thought it would be a good step towards meeting the
multitude of land management officials (about 110 of them attending)
from all over Arizona plus a few from other states.
Anyway, to the point of this post.....they had an award presentation
late this afternoon....it was to honor the OHV clubs and an OHV
individual.
I am sorry to say that the AZVJC didn't receive the award. However, I
was extremely proud that we made one hell of a showing as they listed
the various activities/events we have done in the past year or two. (I
had been asked to supply a bunch of this information, as some of you may
remember me posting for help on this. Until today, I was under the
impression it was for some publicity stuff that a PR agency was doing
for one of the gov't agencies.) The award went to a ATV club who no
doubt did deserve it. They had 13 years of pretty darn good OHV support
in a variety of areas. None the less, we still stacked up pretty good
when our list of accomplishments was read. (For what it is worth, there
is 25 clubs that are part of the ASA4WDC.....there was about 5 groups
that made the list that was presented at the awards ceremony
today.....and AZVJC was in that group!)
Sandee McCullen was awarded the individual award for her work in the OHV
area. For those of you that know her, this should certainly come as no
surprise. I was most happy for her and she was pretty surprised when
they announced her name.
Just wanted to share some info with everyone.....and to make a point.
The AZVJC is being taken seriously by both the OHV community and by the
those we work with in the various land management agencies. That became
very obvious to me today.
I am very proud to be associated with this group!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave oboyle [mailto:arizonaXj@h...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:55 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: AZ_VJC Splinter Clubs...
If any changes should be made at all we should become the Arizona
Virtual
Offroad club, This way all of the offroad community will be able to
learn
and be involved like we are now..
Just my 2 cents..
Dave
Rock Rash is better than Road Rash Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
__________________________________________________ _______________
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68431 From: Mike Buckner <mbuckner@c...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 5:01am
Subject: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
We should all join the Sierra Club -- Then they would hear more than one point of view
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: purple
To: Ray B. ; Len Sullivan
Cc: AZVJC
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:46 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
I , too , say bring them . Maybe we'll get some good P.R. sent back to the S.C. At the worst we might get a little insight into how these people think and give them a little to ponder also . The first time I ever heard of the Sierra Club it was just hiking club you could join and meet single women . None of the members that I knew had any idea what the hell their dues went for and none of them cared . I don't think 5% of the members know what the hell the 'Nazi Activist's members of their group even do . Since I'm a member of the A.S.A ( American Sand Assoc.), and we are ALWAYS having problems with this group , you just want to knock them all out . If you have ever been to the land use meetings for the dunes you'd know what I mean . I say that we should all join the S.C. and CHANGE ( mess up ) their agenda from inside the group . If we were actually members there would be all kinds of problems for them and it would make them look like (bigger) idiots . Plus we would be one step ahead of the game by actually knowing what some of their devious schemes are sooner . It would be sort of like having a couple thousand undercover cops in a drug ring . I think it would help us out immensely . Imagine if one of US was sent to BLM to represent the S.C. !!! Are you thinking the same thing I am ???? Sierra club members wearing red shirts .... It would be , like , double representation for the off roaders and NONE for the S.C.
Thoughts ?
Purple . ----Original Message-----
From: Ray B. [mailto:KB7SKV@CYBERTRAILS.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:57 PM
To: Len Sullivan
Cc: AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
We're with you on the "high road". As you said, they can go there and see the 'damage' any time. We vote for the 'take-em-along-and show-em how clean-minded we are' M.O.
Ray and Amanda
AZAV8ER
Len Sullivan wrote:
Hello again
After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman, and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past and gotten only the cold shoulder.
She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them? They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash throwing throttle jockeys?
Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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68432 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:02am
Subject: [FS] Jeep XJ Spare with cover
Price: $20
Contact: 480-206-3897 cell 480-699-9419 home
This came from my friend's XJ before he went to bigger tires. It's got the cover (tan in color) and the tire is on a Jeep rim (I think Alloy, I'm not sure). I think the tire is a 235x75x15.
Come get this for $20 or it's gonna get trashed.
Michael Soo
68433 From: armando cantu <mandocan22@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:05am
Subject: Question on why my jeep pulls when stoping
Hey all.
sorry to be a pain and asking a lot of questions here
but I guess this is the place to do it. I know that
some of you veteran jeepers can give us young and new
jeepers good tips.
The question is that when I go to stop my jeep pulls
to one side, also for some reason my front passenger
side is the only wheel that stops me. do I need a
whole new break system. I checked the pads and there
all good I tryed to adjust them but still only one
drum is working. oh yea there all 4 drum brakes.I
would apretiate any help answering this question.
p.s thaanks to all that reply
mando
yellow 79 CJ5
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68434 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:09am
Subject: [FS] (4) 235/75/15 for $100!
Price: $100
Contact: 480-206-3897 cell 480-699-9419 home
I've also got four Kirkland (costco) All Terrain type tires that are just sitting around after going to 37's. I'm asking 100, and they come on chrome steel rims for a Nissan. I can take them off the rims, but it's still 100. I'd say these tires have about 10k miles left. I'd also take an offer on these. They are just taking up space, so I'd probably go REAL low.. :D
Michael Soo
68435 From: Chris Villarreal <chris@a...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:14am
Subject: Re: ASA4WDC
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Mark Peterson" <stinger75ih@c...> wrote:
> Jake and others,
>
> >
> > My friend and I considered going to the Parker Splash that is
> coming up in a few weekends, but the cost is ridiculious for a
> weekend of wheeling. By the time we pay the registration fee, meal
> fee, camp fee, put gas in the Jeep and bring food for lunch it's a
> $200 weekend for 2 people in 1 Jeep. We usually go camping for 2
to
> 3 nights and run about 100-150 miles of trails and it only costs us
> about $100 to take 2 Jeeps, 2 tanks of gas, feed 2 people, plus the
> dog and still have food left over after we're done wheeling.
> >
> > I understand there are permits and other expenditures, but why so
> much? I'm not saying don't be a member of ASA4WDC, just giving you
> my observations.
You can't compare the cost of two friends wheeling on the weekend
with a 3 day event for hundreds of people. You and your friend don't
need to pay for porto-johns, BLM fees, insurance policies,
generators, DJ's, food for 500 people, several hundred t-shirts, etc,
etc, so of course your weekend excursion will be cheaper. Besides
the money raised by these events helps our cause. As a member of the
AZ Rough Riders I was proud we donated several thousand dollars to
charities last X-mas along with money for the fire relief efforts
last summer. Not bad for a 20 member club. BTW I am attending the
Desert Splash this year from the first time. For $60 I get a t-
shirt, camping and breakfast. As long as there is no trail carnage
that's cheaper than a movie and two meals for two (dinning out)on the
weekend.
68436 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:00am
Subject: Potential recall on 96-98 Jeep Grand Cherokee hood latches
Hi Gang,
I was listening to National Public Radio this morning and I heard that there
is an ongoing investigation into hood latch failures on the Grand Cherokee,
with most of the problems occurring on 1997 model year but some one 96 and
98. Perhaps this is already old news... but if you own one of these
vehicles, it might be a good idea to go take a look at your latch and give
it a nice shot of lubrication and make sure everything seems to be in
working order. Apparently, the failures occur at speed and the hood just
flies open... not a pretty picture.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
68437 From: CoyotEddie <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:06am
Subject: Re: Re: Sierra Club at Coves cleanup
After that take them out shooting, let them get the feel of an "assault rifle" that will clinch it for them.
I say invite them on one condition.... they all have to ride with a
Jeeper!! Crawl up a couple of the hills and they will be converted!
I have yet to take someone out wheelin and then not come back with a
huge smile on thier face! Even my Mom who white knuckled the first
hill at the coves became impressed after a couple hills! They'll be
selling their Exterras (Joe Kearney!) and buying Jeeps!! LOL -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., Len Sullivan <kermitj10@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello again
>
> After the BLM meeting last week, a young lady asked me if she
could be invited to the Coves Cleanup. Her name is Julie Sherman,
and she is the National Monuments Conservation Organizer for the
Southwest Office of the Sierra Club. I was a bit surprised by her
request and I told her so. I also told her that we (the AZVJC) have
invited the Sierra Club to attend our clean up efforts in the past
and gotten only the cold shoulder.
>
> She explained that the Sierra Club has more than it's share of
people who have a "tunnel vision" problem and said that not all of
their membership is like that. After talking for a while with Miss
Sherman and another lady from the SC named Bonny Knowlton I'm
inclined to agree. These two ladies were well spoken, had well
thought-out positions, and were actually willing to listen to and
discuss other people's points of view.......a big change from the
Sierra Club I used to know. Who knows...maybe there's some kind of
fifth column moderation movement within the SC.
>
> So here's the question: The Sierra Club wants to join us for the
clean up. Do we take the "high road" and officially invite them?
They can go out to the Coves and see the destruction and garbage any
time they want.....why not take them along with us and demonstrate
that not all of us are slack jawed, drooling, beer guzzling, trash
throwing throttle jockeys?
>
> Thoughts? Comments? Derogatory remarks?
>
> Len
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/