Man killed because of road rage

[Moriarty]

Just was reading up on the road rage shooting that happened last night at
Tatum and Pinnacle Peak.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/12n-roadrage.html

This guy already posted $46K in bond and is sitting at home with a
monitor on his ankle.

Next time some moron cuts you off or pulls a I'm more important than you move on you in traffic. Probably a good idea to suck it up and at the very least, don't get out of your friggin car.

Oh, and don't bring a fist to a gun fight.

My condolences to Rebecca and the rest of the Beasley family.

[Duality]

people have no appreciation for human life.

[Stickbuddy]

This guy already posted $46K in bond and is sitting at home with a monitor on his ankle.

Next time some moron cuts you off or pulls a I'm more important than you move on you in traffic. Probably a good idea to suck it up and at the very least, don't get out of your friggin car.

Oh, and don't bring a fist to a gun fight.

My condolences to Rebecca and the rest of the Beasley family.

Your reference to "Rebecca" indicates you may know the family, as the name wasn't given in the news story. This incident really got my attention when I heard about it last night. Very tragic to be sure. Can you share any more details on how it went down?

[fatboypup]

I think the guy also should have never gotten out of his car and approached the guy either cause if he'd have come up on my vechicle he'd have been looking at an XD pointed at him also.

I had something kinda similar happen to me about a month ago, I was traveling northbound on I17 at about Bell Road. I was in the far right lane when a car tried merge in front of me from the left almost sideswiping the vehicle in front of me. He pulled it back over and made the manuver after a second try with me slowing down and leaving more space, now with all three cars in a line the front guy slams on his brakes i lock mine up in the jeep sliding over to the shoulder the middle guy gets away but the front guy pulls over too. Im very upset cause these idiots almost cause me to wreak I said out the jeep hey buddy you drive for ****! He gets out his truck and starts to approach the jeep I pointed the XD at him and said get the f@#K back in your truck come any closer and your gonna die here. He got back in and drove away I think i sat there for about 5-10 mins just in shock.

[jpotts]

I think the guy also should have never gotten out of his car and approached the guy either cause if he'd have come up on my vechicle he'd have been looking at an XD pointed at him also.

I had something kinda similar happen to me about a month ago, I was traveling northbound on I17 at about Bell Road. I was in the far right lane when a car tried merge in front of me from the left almost sideswiping the vehicle in front of me. He pulled it back over and made the manuver after a second try with me slowing down and leaving more space, now with all three cars in a line the front guy slams on his brakes i lock mine up in the jeep sliding over to the shoulder the middle guy gets away but the front guy pulls over too. Im very upset cause these idiots almost cause me to wreak I said out the jeep hey buddy you drive for ****! He gets out his truck and starts to approach the jeep I pointed the XD at him and said get the f@#K back in your truck come any closer and your gonna die here. He got back in and drove away I think i sat there for about 5-10 mins just in shock.

You were going to execute someone rather than fight him? Why? I guess i don't get it. Did you feel that your life was in danger?

[Duality]

no offense dude but that story makes you look no better than the guy who killed mr beasley. You realize if you start a confrontation... And then end it with a gun, you're going to jail for a very long time. Why dont you stop pulling your gun on people and act like a grown up?

[fatboypup]

You were going to execute someone rather than fight him? Why? I guess i don't get it. Did you feel that your life was in danger?

He came out of his car at me in an agressive manor. Yes I would have shot him dead right there in self defense.

[FrenchChili]

He came out of his car at me in an agressive manor. Yes I would have shot him dead right there in self defense.

I thought for self defense you can only use your gun if your oponent has the "equivalent" in weapon, physically overwhelming or outnumbered? Can someone clarify?

Been a while I need to go back for another class.

[Moriarty]

Your reference to "Rebecca" indicates you may know the family, as the name wasn't given in the news story. This incident really got my attention when I heard about it last night. Very tragic to be sure. Can you share any more details on how it went down?

The name Rebecca was in the video clip. I do not know these folks but think its pretty f'd up she had to watch her husband get shot in the face because he couldn't take a step back mentally and just keep driving.

Although I think what Mr. Stuart did was bull****, Mr. Beasley nor the rest of you have any business getting out of your car over a middle finger. If witness statements are in fact correct and Mr. Beasley was backing away with his hands raised and Mr. Stuart still put a round through his face then I don't think Mr. Stuart should have been released on a measly $46k in bond especially after fleeing the scene. He either got once soft judge or one heck of a lawyer.

Fatboypup had no reason to be in the situation he was in. If a law has been broken and you want to report it you take the plate and keep driving. You pull that kind of crap with a better marksman than yourself and you'll be the one on the wrong side of the shell casing. And for what, a traffic altercation? I would be pretty embarressed to have that one on my tombstone.
FYI. You brandish a firearm and that driver calls 911. You can kiss the right to carry goodbye. Its a class 4 felony if I am not mistaken. The cop will ask one question. Could you have safely left the scene? (drive away) If the answer is yes all those gun freedoms you love are history.

As for the hypocritical part, I too am guilty of being in similar situations where I am angered enough to want to just shoot some dumb sh** for almost taking me out in traffic. The difference comes down to control. I have it, thats why I carry.

According to my lawyer, as much as we enjoy are freedom to carry, if the worst happens and you are in a life and death situation and do shoot someone. Even in the case of total self defense, the cost for you to defend your self defense will run you about $60K in attorneys fees and thats if you get off lucky and the pos's family dosen't dig themselves up the best civil suit/wrongeful death attorney on the planet. Another $60K to defend and if you loose, you might as well move to Canada and change your name.

We walk a fine line with the whole right to carry. Some of you would do better to respect the line.

[jpotts]

He came out of his car at me in an agressive manor. Yes I would have shot him dead right there in self defense.

You were in some sort of imminent danger of losing your life? Killing someone because they come towards you in an aggressive manor seems pretty arbitrary and subjective.

Don't people fight anymore? It seems like a good fight can let some aggressions out. I usually like to fight to defend myself if at all possible. It has entertainment value and gets some aggressions out. I don't know why so many people are so quick to want to kill each other.

[Billy 4 hp]

I think the guy also should have never gotten out of his car and approached the guy either cause if he'd have come up on my vechicle he'd have been looking at an XD pointed at him also.

I had something kinda similar happen to me about a month ago, I was traveling northbound on I17 at about Bell Road. I was in the far right lane when a car tried merge in front of me from the left almost sideswiping the vehicle in front of me. He pulled it back over and made the manuver after a second try with me slowing down and leaving more space, now with all three cars in a line the front guy slams on his brakes i lock mine up in the jeep sliding over to the shoulder the middle guy gets away but the front guy pulls over too. Im very upset cause these idiots almost cause me to wreak I said out the jeep hey buddy you drive for ****! He gets out his truck and starts to approach the jeep I pointed the XD at him and said get the f@#K back in your truck come any closer and your gonna die here. He got back in and drove away I think i sat there for about 5-10 mins just in shock.


About the dumbest crap I have ever read on this site (if it get's me banned so be it)... You need to shut off the X-Box and spend some time in a morgue, maybe then you won't be "Quickdraw McGraw"...:confused:

So basically what you are saying is that if I screw up tomorrow (we live in the same basic area) and accidently cut you off, we pull over to the side of the road and I get out to see if I did indeed sideswipe you and I come back to your vehicle to apologize. And just because I might be physically larger than you (we have never met, but at your myspace page you list yourself at 6 foot 4 inches what the hell do you have to be afraid of ???) and you become intimidated (fear for your safety, I look pissed because I feel like a horsesarse and now I have to suck it up and come apologize to you) that your going to point a gun at me (this has happened to me twice before in my lifetime, both individuals spent some quality time with bubba downtown) and inform me "get back your gonna die here" (BTW my car has tinted windows and my 4 and 2 year old sons are in the car, will you check the 2 year olds diaper after you shoot me and explain to the 4 year why you felt it necessary to kill his father over a minor traffic altercation)??? With your apparent itchy trigger finger, you would leave my young son's fatherless and my wife a widow??? All over some meaningless (compared to a human life) vehicles (that didn't even make contact) and your apparent over blown ego that equals your listed physical stature...

Do yourself a favor, sell all your firearms and take an anger management class before you make a decision that will affect your life and the lives of others FOREVER... Actually you have already made the decision to pull a firearm as it apparently makes you feel better about yourself due to your original post... You obviously don't understand the awesome responsibility of owning and handling a firearm...

I hope this reply opens your eyes, if it doesn't so be it...

[Duality]

glad someone else agrees. Fatboypup you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm, and mark my words I will not risk my life by being near you.

[Billy 4 hp]

glad someone else agrees. Fatboypup you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm, and mark my words I will not risk my life by being near you.

One of the few instances in my life where I just switched to pro-gun control...

:aagh:

[AZG23]

The name Rebecca was in the video clip. I do not know these folks but think its pretty f'd up she had to watch her husband get shot in the face because he couldn't take a step back mentally and just keep driving.

Although I think what Mr. Stuart did was bull****, Mr. Beasley nor the rest of you have any business getting out of your car over a middle finger. If witness statements are in fact correct and Mr. Beasley was backing away with his hands raised and Mr. Stuart still put a round through his face then I don't think Mr. Stuart should have been released on a measly $46k in bond especially after fleeing the scene. He either got once soft judge or one heck of a lawyer.

Fatboypup had no reason to be in the situation he was in. If a law has been broken and you want to report it you take the plate and keep driving. You pull that kind of crap with a better marksman than yourself and you'll be the one on the wrong side of the shell casing. And for what, a traffic altercation? I would be pretty embarressed to have that one on my tombstone.
FYI. You brandish a firearm and that driver calls 911. You can kiss the right to carry goodbye. Its a class 4 felony if I am not mistaken. The cop will ask one question. Could you have safely left the scene? (drive away) If the answer is yes all those gun freedoms you love are history.

As for the hypocritical part, I too am guilty of being in similar situations where I am angered enough to want to just shoot some dumb sh** for almost taking me out in traffic. The difference comes down to control. I have it, thats why I carry.

According to my lawyer, as much as we enjoy are freedom to carry, if the worst happens and you are in a life and death situation and do shoot someone. Even in the case of total self defense, the cost for you to defend your self defense will run you about $60K in attorneys fees and thats if you get off lucky and the pos's family dosen't dig themselves up the best civil suit/wrongeful death attorney on the planet. Another $60K to defend and if you loose, you might as well move to Canada and change your name.

We walk a fine line with the whole right to carry. Some of you would do better to respect the line.


Everyone that carries should read this 2 or 3 times...

[Sean K.]

Fight? Okay, first of all....you don't know INTENT when someone is approaching your vehicle. You don't know if they are armed. Some folks are either stupid enough to approach your vehicle unarmed with violent intent or they are enough of a badass that they've done it plenty. In the latter case, they are not to be trifled with. In the former....well, you just don't know if they are armed or not, now do you? The best thing you can do, is avoid the situation all together.

My wife worked with Mr. Beasely. He was a good man, but he made a mistake by getting out of his car in the first place. Had he stayed in it, the incident never would have occurred. This is NOT to say Mr. Beasely is to blame, nor does it nullify the actions of the bastard that shot him in the face with his hands raised. That guy should go away on 2nd degree murder charges for a long, long time.

Sorry, I don't buy the analogy of someone getting out of their car to "apologize". Body language will quickly tell if that is the case. Further, a simple wave of the hand acknowledging your mistake will often do wonders to calm someone's anger over a true mistake on your part.

Use your head people. Use your gun as an absolute last resort.

Sean

[fatboypup]

Fight? Okay, first of all....you don't know INTENT when someone is approaching your vehicle. You don't know if they are armed. Some folks are either stupid enough to approach your vehicle unarmed with violent intent or they are enough of a badass that they've done it plenty. In the latter case, they are not to be trifled with. In the former....well, you just don't know if they are armed or not, now do you? The best thing you can do, is avoid the situation all together.

My wife worked with Mr. Beasely. He was a good man, but he made a mistake by getting out of his car in the first place. Had he stayed in it, the incident never would have occurred. This is NOT to say Mr. Beasely is to blame, nor does it nullify the actions of the bastard that shot him in the face with his hands raised. That guy should go away on 2nd degree murder charges for a long, long time.

Sorry, I don't buy the analogy of someone getting out of their car to "apologize". Body language will quickly tell if that is the case. Further, a simple wave of the hand acknowledging your mistake will often do wonders to calm someone's anger over a true mistake on your part.

Use your head people. Use your gun as an absolute last resort.

Sean

I completely agree with you Sean.

The guy that came at me was at least 50 feet away and you could tell he wasnt comming to apologize. He basicly after I said he drove like crap was comming at me saying wtf are you gonna do about it. You dont run up at someone like that.

[Billy 4 hp]

Everyone that carries should read this 2 or 3 times...


The name Rebecca was in the video clip. I do not know these folks but think its pretty f'd up she had to watch her husband get shot in the face because he couldn't take a step back mentally and just keep driving.

Although I think what Mr. Stuart did was bull****, Mr. Beasley nor the rest of you have any business getting out of your car over a middle finger. If witness statements are in fact correct and Mr. Beasley was backing away with his hands raised and Mr. Stuart still put a round through his face then I don't think Mr. Stuart should have been released on a measly $46k in bond especially after fleeing the scene. He either got once soft judge or one heck of a lawyer.

Fatboypup had no reason to be in the situation he was in. If a law has been broken and you want to report it you take the plate and keep driving. You pull that kind of crap with a better marksman than yourself and you'll be the one on the wrong side of the shell casing. And for what, a traffic altercation? I would be pretty embarressed to have that one on my tombstone.
FYI. You brandish a firearm and that driver calls 911. You can kiss the right to carry goodbye. Its a class 4 felony if I am not mistaken. The cop will ask one question. Could you have safely left the scene? (drive away) If the answer is yes all those gun freedoms you love are history.

As for the hypocritical part, I too am guilty of being in similar situations where I am angered enough to want to just shoot some dumb sh** for almost taking me out in traffic. The difference comes down to control. I have it, thats why I carry.

According to my lawyer, as much as we enjoy are freedom to carry, if the worst happens and you are in a life and death situation and do shoot someone. Even in the case of total self defense, the cost for you to defend your self defense will run you about $60K in attorneys fees and thats if you get off lucky and the pos's family dosen't dig themselves up the best civil suit/wrongeful death attorney on the planet. Another $60K to defend and if you loose, you might as well move to Canada and change your name.

We walk a fine line with the whole right to carry. Some of you would do better to respect the line.


X 1000000000

I refuse to add to the drama of this thread after this reply (one of the main reasons why I don't frequent the firearm forums), obviously I have a difference of opinion with some on why and when it is to be used (if ever)... And brandishing a weapon and stating someone will die is "using it"...

I completely agree with you Sean.

The guy that came at me was at least 50 feet away and you could tell he wasnt comming to apologize. He basicly after I said he drove like crap was comming at me saying wtf are you gonna do about it. You dont run up at someone like that.

Do you have a CCW permit, do you remember the part about not instigating a situation if/when you are carrying??? As nothing good will come of it???


Fight? Okay, first of all....you don't know INTENT when someone is approaching your vehicle. You don't know if they are armed. Some folks are either stupid enough to approach your vehicle unarmed with violent intent or they are enough of a badass that they've done it plenty. In the latter case, they are not to be trifled with. In the former....well, you just don't know if they are armed or not, now do you? The best thing you can do, is avoid the situation all together.

My wife worked with Mr. Beasely. He was a good man, but he made a mistake by getting out of his car in the first place. Had he stayed in it, the incident never would have occurred. This is NOT to say Mr. Beasely is to blame, nor does it nullify the actions of the bastard that shot him in the face with his hands raised. That guy should go away on 2nd degree murder charges for a long, long time.

Sorry, I don't buy the analogy of someone getting out of their car to "apologize". Body language will quickly tell if that is the case. Further, a simple wave of the hand acknowledging your mistake will often do wonders to calm someone's anger over a true mistake on your part.

Use your head people. Use your gun as an absolute last resort.

Sean

In two sentences you contradict yourself as you state that unless I am skipping along merrily I am not going to apologize or be calm and level headed, so if I look angry draw your weapon? I have been in a few on the road instances where both parties get out angry and both leave happy and understanding of what happened (none of these situations actually resulted in an accident, I will admit I have an ego too and the Superman Complex hence the reason I pulled over or worse yet got out of the vehicle in stop and go traffic). Your post makes me reconsider how I deal with people in this day and age... You may have possibly saved my life so I thank you...

Enjoy your freedom's....

[GRUNT]

Tempers get away quick from people now a days... Where are the days guys could hash something out over fistacuffs?(sp?) Gone, because people run out get a gun and don't know when it should be used. This little "twinkie M&M types" as well as just about anyone goes out and gets a gun, then when they feel threatened they whip it out. This exasterbates ANY situation beyond control...

Just tonight we went on a call to a local chandler trendy bar, on the way in and the way out a lil skinny 100 pound wet patron was making cat calls at the female fire-fighter on my crew. I ignored it, as did she. On the way out he started doing it again, we kept walking out. Just as we passed he followed with some sexual harassment comments. I stopped, turned and we had us a Mexican Stand-off. I didn't say anything, wasn't going to in uniform. I wasn't going to crush him, I was in uniform. He saw me and didn't say a word, until I turned around. Luckily for both of us, the bartender, the manager and the bouncer heard and saw this and they were tossing him out when we left. He was a scared lil pup with his tail between his legs as he passed the engine.

Long story short - I could have pounded him but I didn't. Too much to loose. If I get into a traffic altercation, especially with my kids in the car and a bozo starts something..... Then I will drive away and call police. It is called escalation of force and appropriate response. Now if said individual chases me down before PD/SO arrives and escalates then he gets a fist in the throat or better... I have learned to avoid turds like this, heck I have gotten a hot head once or twice myself. Just like the little man lastnight wearing a "US Ranger" shirt, I wasn't going to show him what 2 fists and Semper Fidelis means, he is not worth the trouble....

IMHO

[Antman]

Long story short - I could have pounded him but I didn't. Too much to loose. If I get into a traffic altercation, especially with my kids in the car and a bozo starts something..... Then I will drive away and call police. It is called escalation of force and appropriate response. Now if said individual chases me down before PD/SO arrives and escalates then he gets a fist in the throat or better... I have learned to avoid turds like this, heck I have gotten a hot head once or twice myself. Just like the little man lastnight wearing a "US Ranger" shirt, I wasn't going to show him what 2 fists and Semper Fidelis means, he is not worth the trouble....

IMHO
I have carried a weapon for 40+ years. After I came out of the Navy, I ran a
vending route in some of the toughest joints in town on both sides of the
tracks and both ends of town. Only twice have I pulled my weapon. Once
I ended up bending the barrel of my .357 over a guys head, and the other time a 300 lb monster reached in my truck to throttle me, and I put my .45 to
his head and he actually ran away. If he hadn't turned me loose, I would
have had to shoot him. I have been in lots of fights in bars both for pleasure
and while working, but never thought of a gun. Seems now a days if you
insult someone or their honey, the guns start coming out first.

Bottom line, I have been in lots of scenarios where I could have pulled a
weapon, but didn't feel my life was threatened. It is a fine line we walk
so please go back and review what "life threatened" actually means.
I apologize for preaching, but if it helps someone, then it was worth it.:sifone:

[jpotts]

Fight? Okay, first of all....you don't know INTENT when someone is approaching your vehicle. You don't know if they are armed. Some folks are either stupid enough to approach your vehicle unarmed with violent intent or they are enough of a badass that they've done it plenty. In the latter case, they are not to be trifled with. In the former....well, you just don't know if they are armed or not, now do you? The best thing you can do, is avoid the situation all together.


You're obviously right. You shouldn't fight people either, you should try to avoid the situation. But if the person making that decision also has violent intentions I say be a man and fight. I think shooting someone out of anger is a cowardly way out. I think that saying it was self-defense is a poor excuse. It's not self-defense if leaving the scene is an alternative. I'll even say that it's not self-defense if it appears that the worst that will happen is you will get your butt kicked because you are not a very good fighter and are afraid of the other guy. I think it is important to resolve the situation in whatever non-lethal means are available before resorting to using your gun.

[AZLugz]

You're obviously right. You shouldn't fight people either, you should try to avoid the situation. But if the person making that decision also has violent intentions I say be a man and fight. I think shooting someone out of anger is a cowardly way out. I think that saying it was self-defense is a poor excuse. It's not self-defense if leaving the scene is an alternative. I'll even say that it's not self-defense if it appears that the worst that will happen is you will get your butt kicked because you are not a very good fighter and are afraid of the other guy. I think it is important to resolve the situation in whatever non-lethal means are available before resorting to using your gun.

Well, I would leave if at all possible but if not and I had a gun, I would prolly (depending on a lot of things) use it, getting my "Butt Kicked" is not an option as it very likly would leave me paralyzed, some times it is hard to see that I have a physical problem and they would not know it without knowing me.

My reason for saying this is that you can not make that generalization without knowing all the facts. For me, if he left me know way to run, I would not risk being paralyzed the rest of my life because he is pissed off and wants to fight, in this case self defense is not an excuse, it is necessary


Just my opinion

[jpotts]

Well, I would leave if at all possible but if not and I had a gun, I would prolly (depending on a lot of things) use it, getting my "Butt Kicked" is not an option as it very likly would leave me paralyzed, some times it is hard to see that I have a physical problem and they would not know it without knowing me.

My reason for saying this is that you can not make that generalization without knowing all the facts. For me, if he left me know way to run, I would not risk being paralyzed the rest of my life because he is pissed off and wants to fight, in this case self defense is not an excuse, it is necessary


Just my opinion

Good point. I guess I could have qualified my remark about choosing to fight with , "if you are an able bodied man."

In the situation I described I said that the person making the decision on whether or not to draw also had violent intentions. I think that in your condition, you have to hold yourself at an even higher level. You need to suck it up, be a man, and leave the scene.

Obviously, if you are trapped and have no way out, you need to protect yourself and self-defense is a more valid excuse. I might still choose to smack him with the car if I could in that situation. Painful, but probably not lethal.

I guess my real point is: To everyone who carries, PLEASE use your weapon as a last defense not as a first choice and NEVER in aggression.

Pulling that trigger can destroy more lives than the one of the dumb***** on the other end.

[Sean K.]

X 1000000000

I refuse to add to the drama of this thread after this reply (one of the main reasons why I don't frequent the firearm forums), obviously I have a difference of opinion with some on why and when it is to be used (if ever)... And brandishing a weapon and stating someone will die is "using it"...



Do you have a CCW permit, do you remember the part about not instigating a situation if/when you are carrying??? As nothing good will come of it???




In two sentences you contradict yourself as you state that unless I am skipping along merrily I am not going to apologize or be calm and level headed, so if I look angry draw your weapon? I have been in a few on the road instances where both parties get out angry and both leave happy and understanding of what happened (none of these situations actually resulted in an accident, I will admit I have an ego too and the Superman Complex hence the reason I pulled over or worse yet got out of the vehicle in stop and go traffic). Your post makes me reconsider how I deal with people in this day and age... You may have possibly saved my life so I thank you...

Enjoy your freedom's....

And my only point was to try and save some of your lives. I didn't say "draw my weapon" if you look angry. I'm trying to say....avoid the situation all together. It's not worth killing or dying over.

My point, which you highlighted but failed to understand, yet oddly acknowledged is that MOST OF THE TIME, people don't jump out of their car to apologize. They jump out mad. You don't know if they are armed. Try and avoid this situation at all cost. Maybe have a little more patience with people.....that's all I was saying.

Sean

[CooL_DaD]

Kids Fight..Im not a kid anymore, either you are trying to kill me or Harm me..I will shoot You...You have NO Right To Touch ME.....

[jpotts]

I'm gonna step out of this conversation. We all have our own opinions. I don't plan on shooting an unarmed man - ever.

[fatboypup]

Kids Fight..Im not a kid anymore, either you are trying to kill me or Harm me..I will shoot You...You have NO Right To Touch ME.....

x2 ........ nuff said. Thank you sir

[Sean K.]

I'm gonna step out of this conversation. We all have our own opinions. I don't plan on shooting an unarmed man - ever.

And I agree.....except I won't limit myself to the "ever" clause. There may be a situation in which you have no choice...it's him or you. In that situation, I'll pick me everytime.

Sean

[Moriarty]

About the dumbest crap I have ever read on this site (if it get's me banned so be it)... You need to shut off the X-Box and spend some time in a morgue, maybe then you won't be "Quickdraw McGraw"...:confused:

So basically what you are saying is that if I screw up tomorrow (we live in the same basic area) and accidently cut you off, we pull over to the side of the road and I get out to see if I did indeed sideswipe you and I come back to your vehicle to apologize. And just because I might be physically larger than you (we have never met, but at your myspace page you list yourself at 6 foot 4 inches what the hell do you have to be afraid of ???) and you become intimidated (fear for your safety, I look pissed because I feel like a horsesarse and now I have to suck it up and come apologize to you) that your going to point a gun at me (this has happened to me twice before in my lifetime, both individuals spent some quality time with bubba downtown) and inform me "get back your gonna die here" (BTW my car has tinted windows and my 4 and 2 year old sons are in the car, will you check the 2 year olds diaper after you shoot me and explain to the 4 year why you felt it necessary to kill his father over a minor traffic altercation)??? With your apparent itchy trigger finger, you would leave my young son's fatherless and my wife a widow??? All over some meaningless (compared to a human life) vehicles (that didn't even make contact) and your apparent over blown ego that equals your listed physical stature...

Do yourself a favor, sell all your firearms and take an anger management class before you make a decision that will affect your life and the lives of others FOREVER... Actually you have already made the decision to pull a firearm as it apparently makes you feel better about yourself due to your original post... You obviously don't understand the awesome responsibility of owning and handling a firearm...

I hope this reply opens your eyes, if it doesn't so be it...

And if that reply doesn't open your eyes to the moronic notion that a traffic altercation is worth shooting someone for. Remember what I said about you being the "less skilled" marksman. I don't know your skills, and this is not meant to be a pissing contest over the better trained shootist but lets just for a second put you up against someone like Grunt or AZG23 who as well as I am trained or think I am trained would not want to be on the wrong side of their respective barrels. Lets say you get in a traffic altercation with one of them. Then think about one of your relatives giving the following interview.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=213534&shu=1

The most interesting part about this thread is it proved a valuable point to my wife who was very worried when I purchased my first gun and took the subsequent classes and courses. She was always under the impression I was doing this because I could in AZ and I couldn't when we lived in California and/or I was worried about some little gang member carjacking me. I told her, hell no. The first week we lived in Phoenix I read news story after news story about regular joes, hot headed red blooded americans, shooting it out over anything from road rage to just having a bad day and capping some one because of it. I know if you ask me to compare two threats, such as are you more afraid of a gangbanging, pants at the knees, hat sideways delinquent carjacking me at Metro Center or the nice accountant family guy that got laid off the same week he found out his wife is banging the pool guy and hes on the way home from picking up his car at the dealership and they just raked him over the coals and hes driving next to me on the 101 at the moment! I like the gangbanger, I can see him coming.:2guns:

[Stu Olson]

Some of you, in my opinion, need to spend an hour or two and do some reading. If not for you, perhaps for those you may leave behind as you do your jail time.

I recommend Title 13 (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13) of our state's revised statutes.

Chapter 4 is a good place to start if you wish not to read the entire title. It even covers situations where you verbally provoke another and then opt to use deadly force to defend yourself. Put another way, why screw up your life because you are ignorant of the law?

[Moriarty]

Some of you, in my opinion, need to spend an hour or two and do some reading. If not for you, perhaps for those you may leave behind as you do your jail time.

I recommend Title 13 (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13) of our state's revised statutes.

Chapter 4 is a good place to start if you wish not to read the entire title. It even covers situations where you verbally provoke another and then opt to use deadly force to defend yourself. Put another way, why screw up your life because you are ignorant of the law?

Best post yet.

[AZG23]

Some of you, in my opinion, need to spend an hour or two and do some reading. If not for you, perhaps for those you may leave behind as you do your jail time.

I recommend Title 13 (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13) of our state's revised statutes.

Chapter 4 is a good place to start if you wish not to read the entire title. It even covers situations where you verbally provoke another and then opt to use deadly force to defend yourself. Put another way, why screw up your life because you are ignorant of the law?


Amen Stu........

Carrying a Firearm for defense means you shy away, you take the back seat, you turn the other cheek in a confrontation. It takes alot to stifle your pride...but it needs to be done, or perhaps some should rethink carrying.

Im a HUGE proponent of self defense..those who know me, know this...but care and discipline need to be adhered to also imho.

stay safe out there

[AZG23]

let me add a movie quote that always stuck with me that made alot of sense...


"Be Nice.......until it's time to NOT be nice!"

[HvyHau8272]

let me add a movie quote that always stuck with me that made alot of sense...


"Be Nice.......until it's time to NOT be nice!"


Road House....that was a good movie. ....I just read this whole thread and I'm speachless about Fat....... what ever it was.

Enjoy yourself in Jail because thats where you are headed it sounds like unless you drop the pride and learn the laws. YOU elevated the situation to a life threatning situation to where YOU could have been justfilably shot and let the other guy walk.

[ROKCRLR]

It's surprising to me, even alarming, how many people seem to feel that their first reaction to a potentially hostile situation should be to pull out their gun. That should be your last resort. If some apparently unarmed dude is walking towards you in a manner that makes you uncomfortable, that is NOT justification to pull a gun on him. Fatboypup, you were lucky you didn't get arrested for aggravated assault...

[HvyHau8272]

It's surprising to me, even alarming, how many people seem to feel that their first reaction to a potentially hostile situation should be to pull out their gun. That should be your last resort. If some apparently unarmed dude is walking towards you in a manner that makes you uncomfortable, that is NOT justification to pull a gun on him. Jim, you were lucky not to get arrested for aggravated assault...


X100

[GRUNT]

I don't want to...
:beatdeadhorse5:
but I also believe that avoiding a fight all together is best. You will go to jail for beating a punk, even if he deserves it... I see it all the time, they press charges just because they are going to jail and want to take you down too.

Ever since I got out of the military and started having kids and a career that ABSOLUTELY hinges on my conduct at ANYTIME of the day while on shift or off, I avoid altercations. I even took a spit in the face in a bar, in front of everyone for stepping in between a drunk who was harassing a female. I did nothing but I didn't move... He was escorted out, incidentaly beaten by her friends in the parking lot but if I had knocked him out we'd both be in jail and I would have lost my job.

I think taking a step back, avoid any escalation is wise and not cowardly...

[Stickbuddy]

I think taking a step back, avoid any escalation is wise and not cowardly...

Which really goes to show how far we've sunk. Let's all bend over, grab our ankles and let the scum take over the world.

[AZG23]

Which really goes to show how far we've sunk. Let's all bend over, grab our ankles and let the scum take over the world.

no one said you cannot stand up for yourself...just dont put yourself into situations that you DONT need to be in.

[Duality]

Kids Fight..Im not a kid anymore, either you are trying to kill me or Harm me..I will shoot You...You have NO Right To Touch ME.....

thats gonna hold up real well in court. Kids fight? I guess all adults solve conflict by shooting each other. You have fun trying to convince a jury that some guy 20 feet away was trying to harm you when he got out of his car. Learn an appreciation for human life, drop the ego disorder, and just drive off. There are eleventy trillion ways to deal with a like situation short of pulling a gun. Thats just cowardly.

[Billy 4 hp]

Just be careful out there....

[AZLugz]

C'mon Man, that would kill the drama and make life boring! :baby:

[jperez]

I don't want to...
:beatdeadhorse5:
but I also believe that avoiding a fight all together is best. You will go to jail for beating a punk, even if he deserves it... I see it all the time, they press charges just because they are going to jail and want to take you down too.

Ever since I got out of the military and started having kids and a career that ABSOLUTELY hinges on my conduct at ANYTIME of the day while on shift or off, I avoid altercations. I even took a spit in the face in a bar, in front of everyone for stepping in between a drunk who was harassing a female. I did nothing but I didn't move... He was escorted out, incidentaly beaten by her friends in the parking lot but if I had knocked him out we'd both be in jail and I would have lost my job.

I think taking a step back, avoid any escalation is wise and not cowardly...

i gotta lot of respect for ya for keepin it real!

[Moriarty]

I vote this thread be closed before things get out of hand...

JMHO...


Not until Brad says so.

[AZG23]

personally, I dont think it should be closed...I think its a good reminder...maybe a tip to not flame. But this should be discussed.

[Bilt4Comfort]

The one thing that was pounded into us the hardest in my CCW class....turn around and run if at all possible. You have to be very careful if you carry to avoid confrontations at all costs. Your weapon is there to defend your life in a life threatening situation. There's a whole lot more to carrying than just which gun you shoot best and what holster you want to carry it in. There's a mindset that must be with you at all times. You must know that taking a mans life must be justified and threatening to kill someone should never even enter the equation. If I pull my weapon...I will most likely be putting at least 2 rounds COM, otherwise it's staying holstered and you won't know I even have it until it's too late for you.

Every situation has it's own variables, but, quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand....will likely get you dead or incarcerated.

[Moriarty]

personally, I dont think it should be closed...I think its a good reminder...maybe a tip to not flame. But this should be discussed.

Previous request for closure removed because Brad says so.
Oh, and no flaming between the trigger happy and the trigger smart, because Brad says so.
:smoking:

[AZG23]

LOL...uhhhhhhh

[Billy 4 hp]

My thoughts of closing the thread were not to keep others from commenting, but to keep it from becoming a flame war (to me it seemed like it was heading that way)....

Now I vote it get's stickied....

[Duality]

since this thread is still going.

I have this rule.

I'm not pulling it unless I'm using it.

[KennethS]

This was probably one of the most meaningful posts I have read in a while. It has really made me stop and think, and hopefully many of the wise words will stay with me in stressful times and help me to keep a level head.

Thanks to all.