Humbug and Columbia Mine area

[Moriarty]

Just wanted to vent/share an experience today that left me irked at the end of the day. Went out to Lake Pleasant to shoot up to the Columbia Mine and Humbug today to look around. I was in a really good mood. Got up the first mile or so of Columbia Rd. and was stopped by a gal with her horse that basically began reading me the riot act about how nothing on Columbia Rd would interest me and that everything was Private Property and I should turn around because myself and all the other offroaders were ruining the area and we had no business being on that road etc...etc...etc...

Because I was in a really good mood I was polite to the lady and merely said that I did not want to upset her or the other property owners but that the road itself was public. I also volunteered to turn around and head the other way because according to my GPS there was another trail that went out that way another mile or so up Cow Creek Rd. Don't know why I was being so polite but I felt the situation needed more time to consider and I would spend some of the day thinking about it.

Well, that other trail leading to Humbug is apparently now someones driveway when you get up towards the open area with the big house that has the No Dust Zone sign. It is definitely posted Private Property/No Tresspassing. So I sat there and tried to decide what to do with my day. I chose to run around Castle Creek to Wickenburg because I have done Crown King a few dozen times and the trail itself has lost its luster for me.

The issue I had the rest of the day was the conversation with the lady. A part of me is very sympathetic to folks that move out somewhere for some peace and quiet and wind up having to put up with noise, litter, shooting, and people forging there own trails. The other part of me (the gun owning, freedom loving, explorer guy) felt like she had infringed upon my rights to drive down that damn road and man it made me mad. So I have decided to run that trail next weekend. Oh, and if Columbia Rd itself ever goes up for sale I am going to by the road and block that lady from traveling on it to her property. Again, I am sympathetic to folks wanting peace and quiet but for her to include me with all the people messing up the area and being pompous enough to turn me around on a public road is ridiculous.

My favorite comment of hers was that "almost 50 people go through this area every Saturday and Sunday, its really sick". Since when is getting outside and going exploring instead of going to the mall and/or watching TV all day sick. (Football during the playoffs does not count":sifone: The whole situation just threw me for a loop. Oh, and by the way I FILLED two hefty bags worth of trail trash on my run today from two shooting/camping areas. Yeah I know, sick.

So if anybody wants to join me for a run to the Columbia Mine area next Saturday I will be posting up a run on Tues/Wed.

Anyone think I am wrong?

[Sedona Jeep School]

My experience with people like that is that they just need a representative upon whom to vent their frustration. Her attack was rude and short-sighted, but your rebuttal should set the example for how different land users should treat each other.

If it were me, I would have said in a friendly and non-confrontational manner "Wow--'ruining'? I know what you mean--I have seen a lot of changes, too, in the last couple decades. I am a member of one of the largest Jeep clubs in AZ--if you have vehicle descriptions of anyone you saw misconducting themselves, I would love to blow the whistle on them and track down the yahoos--you know, it's the one percent who ruin it for the rest of us, just like equestrians, or any outdoor activity."

Truly, if there is something I can do to remedy any of it, I would. Now we all know that the likelihood of pinning anything on anyone is as likely as Snipe keeping his Jeep upright :D, but at least you can create a dialogue with this woman, helping each to learn to respectfully share trails. If it is an area I frequent, I will give the person my contact info and ask them to contact me or the local public land manager whenever there is someone abusing our public trails and land, or call the sheriff if its on private property. Yes, this is the Pollyana approach, but just making a positive impact with one of the locals can go a long way in easing access issues.

Later in the conversation, I would also ask something like "You know, the maps I have show this as public road access to BLM land--has any of that changed recently?" Depending on her response, I may also add "Well, I will double check with the (local land use authority) and get back to you with their response, so we are all on the same page."

I might ask which place is hers, how long she's lived here, if there is any other things me or my club should be considerate of while we are using the roads in the area, or help clean up, etc.

That's a tough one. Don't let it ruin your day or your outings. Try not to think of other recreationists as the enemy, because they are not--they are the ones who have as much to lose as we do.

Happy trails, and thank you for posting this--it's important!

[Sedona Jeep School]

Hey, Moriarty, let's post a link to this in the land use section, too. I am happy to post it, if you don't mind. With our trails getting more and more crowded, AND so many newbies on the board, your experience can be a real eye-opener for everyone.

[Moriarty]

Hey, Moriarty, let's post a link to this in the land use section, too. I am happy to post it, if you don't mind. With our trails getting more and more crowded, AND so many newbies on the board, your experience can be a real eye-opener for everyone.

Go ahead and post it Nena. Thanks for the input. I am definitely the wiser for your suggestions. It was a very surreal experience. Never had someone tell me I couldn't go where I wanted. I do obey the law when it comes to posted signs so the signs are the only thing thats ever told me to "turn around". I will definitely use your advice in case she is "guarding" the road again this weekend.

[My1stJeep]

I think you handled it better then most, I for one when I see a horse come to an almost crawl and move to the farthest side away from the horse as to not spook them.

I do think opportunities like this and the response Nena posted are great ways to reach out, today the people who want to close the lands down are targeting OHV users, next it will be mountain bikes, the horse riders, then hikers. So we need to band together as all users of the lands.

[Xiled1]

You know, this brings up a question I always had. How do you know what is private property and what is public land. It always seems to be changing. I assume there are updated maps for this, but I don't know where to get them. Mayb Map World has them? What type of map would I look for?

I ran into something similar up around Lake Mary. I was following the roads on my GPS and I kept running into fences. Then an i-rate land owner proceeds to tell me I'm on private property (no signs). He wouldn't explain why its not on my GPS or even a way around. Just 'GET OUT'. We were cool about it and had a laugh. Then just found our own way.

[jeepsonly]

I do think opportunities like this and the response Nena posted are great ways to reach out, today the people who want to close the lands down are targeting OHV users, next it will be mountain bikes, the horse riders, then hikers. So we need to band together as all users of the lands.

Part of the problem is that often hikers hate the mountain bikers and horse riders and because of this those guys dislike the hikers. It's kind of like Jeeps and ATV's. I'm guilty of having negative views of ATV riders because I have had several bad experiences with those guys, including a time during an AZVJC cleanup at the Coves where an ATV rider drove in high speed circles around my family, spraying dust and dirt all over people who were volunteering to help keep the area open for yahoos like that. From these experiences, it seems to me ATV's are far more responsible for getting our trails shut down than Jeeps are. And it's that kind of reasoning that sets these groups against each other, in my opinion.

My wife and I joined a horse recreationalist group since we have two expensive hobbies now (Jeeps and horses) and found out that the hikers are all pissed off at horse riders because horses poop (100% biodegradable and nutrient rich, I might add). In my experience, hikers tend to view themselves as environmentalists who have little impact on the earth. So they're trying to shut down all trail access to horses (in addition to OHVs). Mountain bikers (also environmentalists) are against OHV's and want OHV trails shut down. Now I'm mad at hikers and mountain bikers because they want my areas shut down but their areas to be open and protected. One group blames the other, each group is either indifferent or self-righteous and there is no cooperation. We all fight our own battles and usually we all lose our own battles.

[John_P]

My wife and I joined a horse recreationalist group since we have two expensive hobbies now (Jeeps and horses) and found out that the hikers are all pissed off at horse riders because horses poop (100% biodegradable and nutrient rich, I might add). In my experience, hikers tend to view themselves as environmentalists who have little impact on the earth. So they're trying to shut down all trail access to horses (in addition to OHVs). Mountain bikers (also environmentalists) are against OHV's and want OHV trails shut down. Now I'm mad at hikers and mountain bikers because they want my areas shut down but their areas to be open and protected. One group blames the other, each group is either indifferent or self-righteous and there is no cooperation. We all fight our own battles and usually we all lose our own battles.

Well, I am hiker, and dig it when I see horses out on teh trail....I usually use their foot prints for when the trial becomes a bit overgrown.

[Hunter]

Jeeps Onoy nailed on the head. Every group points to he others as the main culprit to land loss. Shooters, mountian bikers, ATV's, hiker's, 4wheeler's, etc. No one wants to admit as a whole, their group is CANT be responsible. Then, you hve the small minoirty caught all in the middle.... people who actually OWN land out there.

The only way to win is did what you did. I got to give you a lot of creidt to acting the way you did. Had you gone off and given her the finger. She would have taken it out even more on the next group. Props to you.

At the root of it all, it is a Public Realtions Game. We have to overcome the small precentage of yahoos, in EVERY GROUP to overshadow them so the good guys get credit.

I'd still go out there, but be nice and pleasent if you see her again. Win her over or be respectable of her postion.

[HYDMAN]

This is one of those situations that everybody wants to blame somebody else for problems. Prior to the last knee surgery I would ride my mountain bike appr. 10 hours a week. Mountain bikes cause erosion as well as horses. We need to ban them. I have seen spots on trails that rocks are stacked to lead people off the edge:aagh:. This is done by the hikers. Also, hikers don't pollute the area. They always pack everything out. Just ask them. This is just an example. Every group seems to have there own reasoning for why it is somebody elses fault.

I always try to be as polite as possible to the other people on the trails. I don't want to spook a horse, so I will stop and wait for permission to pass. It seems like half the people would allow you to pass, and the other half would take there time and not let me by. I have been given dirty looks asking people if I can pass. Not sure what more I could do then stay home.

Public land is public land and we all have the right to enjoy it. Everybody has there own way of enjoying this land. As long as there enjoyment doesn't harm others or destroy what we have, then carry on and have fun.

However, I think part of human nature is to hold onto something we think is good. If I find a new spot that I enjoy more than others. I may not want to share that info. Its like posting GPS coords to trails. Protecting what we think is good. I can only hope that is what the lady on the horse was doing.

This doesn't make it right. But the mentality could be very similar.


Kirk

[drroadie]

Props to you! you handled that very well. I probably would have shot her, and ate the horse.......http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/images/smilies/oops.gif
:oops:

[Moriarty]

Props to you! you handled that very well. I probably would have shot her, and ate the horse.......http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/images/smilies/oops.gif
:oops:


Now thats funny. She must have cast a spell on my Jeep though, I got multiple issues from that day that required the CJ to be in the shop for
awhile all from driving a dirt road all day. Never even put it in 4H. Figures.

[sjkimmel99]

Maybe you could have asked her how she or someone before her took a mining claim, intended for the extraction of minerals, and turned it into private property . Comment on how it's a crime that public lands were stolen in such a fashion and that it's really not fair for some people to gain so much to the detriment of all. Ask her what she's doing to fill in or otherwise render save the 1000's of open mine shafts around the state that are her legacy as a mining claim patenting public land stealing horse chick.