Welder ???s

[lancetkenyon]

So who makes a decent welder that is fairly inexpensive? I have never welded before, but am in the market for one. I am not looking to build a buggy frame......yet.....but will use it to repair and install brackets and such. Also, how hard is it to learn to do a strong weld that will not break the first time I drop it on the ground? I don't need the "stacked dimes" look, but strength is a requirement. Besides, a beautiful weld might look out of place on my Jeep.:smilielol5:

[lancetkenyon]

Thanks for the PM Kyle. Where can I get something locally? Might need it this week.

[Billy 4 hp]

Thanks for the PM Kyle. Where can I get something locally? Might need it this week.

Phoenix Welding (7th st by Chase Field)

Has several brands right on the floor, prices are "decent"...

Lincoln
Hobart
Miller

Maybe some others ???

HTH

[lancetkenyon]

Thanks Billy, I might try to get down there tomorrow. I have next weekend off, but have wheeling plans for a month after that already.

[1eagle]

So who makes a decent welder that is fairly inexpensive? I have never welded before, but am in the market for one. I am not looking to build a buggy frame......yet.....but will use it to repair and install brackets and such. Also, how hard is it to learn to do a strong weld that will not break the first time I drop it on the ground? I don't need the "stacked dimes" look, but strength is a requirement. Besides, a beautiful weld might look out of place on my Jeep.:smilielol5:

Getting a strong weld is a combination of things, but the most important one is practice. kinda like driving a jeep the more seat time the better you get. I did my first build with a 110 welder. Some of the welds are still there. I know have a 220 welder. 110 was bought at Home Depot and the 220 was bought at Lowes. Good luck on the search.

Roger

[Billy 4 hp]

Lance,

MIG welding (I assume that is what your going after) is pretty darned easy... I would skip the 110v welder IMO they are just a toy (let's just call them the Dana 35 of the welding world)... Go for the 220v and plan on unplugging the clothes dryer (unless you got a extra 220v plug in the garage)...

When/if you get a welder swing by a steel yard and get some scraps so you can practice. If you buy at Phoenix Welding, they used to give you a mini-crash course on how to set your welder up and use it... I am pretty sure if you ask they still do the same thing (they wan't happy customers)...

I bet in a hour's time of practicing you'll be laying down some real nice beads...

Good luck,

[lancetkenyon]

Thanks for the info, keep it up. I will look into a 230V welder, too.

[Billy 4 hp]

Thanks for the info, keep it up. I will look into a 230V welder, too.

Well that extra 10v won't hurt a thing...

:D

[lancetkenyon]

Actually, all 220V are now rated 230v, as the old 110V are 115v now..........I used to get corrected by my electrical buddies a lot.

[Billy 4 hp]

This one is kinda cute...

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_180_autoset/

This one is all you would ever need, even to build a buggy chassis...

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_212/

And here is a ton of good info...

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/MMMBG.pdf

[TRLR8TDTJ]

If you want Miller. The best price I found was on ebay with free shipping at B R Welding. Mine took like 2 days to get here they are shipped from California if I remember right. http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLERMATIC-180-w-AutoSet-MIG-WELDER-907312_W0QQitemZ300190990786QQihZ020QQcategoryZ113 743QQcmdZViewItem

You could use mine if you want you would just have to use it here. Mine weighs like 300 lbs.

Kyle

[jpotts]

This one looks like it might be a good deal too. Not sure if it's still available though:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/tls/543819607.html

[GLEN REAMS]

Lance if you are looking into just repairing bracking n little stuff a 110V should be just fine that what 75% of the welded chit on my rig has been done with and it has all help up just fine but knowing how too weld helps out IMO but if you wana be a cool guy this welder right here does the other 25% of my welding price tag is a little high tho for a firs time welder. hope i helped ya some
-Glen
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=shop&item_ID=65559&group_ID=1736&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

[mingoglia]

The 180 Miller that Billy posted is ideal for 98% of anyone that might MIG weld. Many will cite the autoset as a added feature or the non "indent" or whatever you call it control but both these are more gimmicks than really needed. The autoset feature is nice for the very very beginning as you may not be paying much attention to the puddle but once you get some practice under your belt you'll adjust your travel speed based on the puddle. I tend to weld a bit hot and just adjust my travel speed. As you may know I have the Miller 210 which has been incremented to the 212 this year when they made some changes to the handle, lower bottle height, etc. Even on Lincoln boards most will admit the 210/212 is about the best welding MIG welder ever made. Even better than the 251 (particularly when it comes to weld wetting). The only forums I've spent more time on than Jeep forums are welding forums. Anyway, you can never go wrong with Miller or really Lincoln for that matter. The Hobart machines are made by the Miller parent company with a few shortcuts to cut down on cost (such as the wire feed rollers). If I were to do it again and I were on a budget I'd probably look at the Hobard Air Handler in the 180 range. Then if I had a bit more dough would step up to the Miller 180.... then as my next welder I would try to save up for the 210/212 but they're really not needed for anything on a Jeep. The 210/212 will weld 3/8" single pass... anything thicker than that I'd choose not to MIG and would likely reach for the stick welder and some 7018 welding rod. :)

I would stay away from any 110 welder. In my and most weldors experience it really doesn't have what it takes to penetrate the most critical component you'll be welding... your 3/16" thick axle brackets. You can have a great looking MIG weld with zero penetration and this lack of penetration is even more of a problem with these units. Save these units for doing sheet metal work and welding high-lift brackets.

I'd highly recommend taking a welding class at your local community college. Unfortunately that would probably mean MCC since I think they're the only one offering courses. If you hurry up they just started 2 weeks ago and you can get in. :) I know because I started in an advanced class yesterday... I figured I could use the disciplined practice as I'm planning on certifying in the next few months....

If you want I can bore you and explain why some outlets have 110 and some have 115. ;) , but I'll refrain unless asked.

Mike

[FrenchChili]

Actually, all 220V are now rated 230v, as the old 110V are 115v now..........I used to get corrected by my electrical buddies a lot.

Whatever you get, make sure it's a 220, you won't regret the extra "humpf."

I did a lot of research on welders and other than that Hobart that sold out a while ago the 2nd best deal is a Clarke available through weldingdepot.com (http://www.weldingdepot.com).

This is the packaged I bought (http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/WE6524P-1.html), the bastards lowered the price by $100 since my purchased:mad: so this IS an EXCELLENT deal.

"Duty Cycle: 20% at 100% output":drummer:




Edit: I have reconstructed my frame with it!

[mingoglia]

Oh, one more thing. Let me stress getting the proper training again. There's a handful of members on this forum that "weld", are very proud of their "welds", and I'd NEVER get in the Jeep with them. In your case I guess you can get by since yours is a trailered rig but just imagine for a second losing a front lower control arm bracket at 80mph on the freeway. The axle would sharply jerk backwards. This broken mount would follow an imaginary circle pivoting from the other side. This circle of course would have the same affect as turning the steering wheel sharply instantly. I can't think of a possibility of not rolling several times on the freeway if this were to happen. There would be no way of recovery this. Unfortunately a weld can look great, even last for a long time...then all of a sudden snap off like a crusty booger.

[FrenchChili]

Oh, one more thing. Let me stress getting the proper training again. There's a handful of members on this forum that "weld", are very proud of their "welds", and I'd NEVER get in the Jeep with them. In your case I guess you can get by since yours is a trailered rig but just imagine for a second losing a front lower control arm bracket at 80mph on the freeway. The axle would sharply jerk backwards. This broken mount would follow an imaginary circle pivoting from the other side. This circle of course would have the same affect as turning the steering wheel sharply instantly. I can't think of a possibility of not rolling several times on the freeway if this were to happen. There would be no way of recovery this. Unfortunately a weld can look great, even last for a long time...then all of a sudden snap off like a crusty booger.


Yup...We have some bottle cages at work and an entire batch of them have broken welds, the welds look perfect but when broken you can see they did not penetrate and there's a gap....ALWAYS weld on CLEAN metal!!! < I'm surprised Hunter hasn't posted on that yet:D

[lancetkenyon]

Thanks a ton Mike, and please keep up the info. I am really thinking about a 220 welder now.

[lancetkenyon]

Whatever you get, make sure it's a 220, you won't regret the extra "humpf."

I did a lot of research on welders and other than that Hobart that sold out a while ago the 2nd best deal is a Clarke available through weldingdepot.com (http://www.weldingdepot.com).

This is the packaged I bought (http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/WE6524P-1.html), the bastards lowered the price by $100 since my purchased:mad: so this IS an EXCELLENT deal.

"Duty Cycle: 20% at 100% output":drummer:




Edit: I have reconstructed my frame with it!

So lets see if I am getting a little of this info.........

2 minutes of use and 8 minutes of off, when using highest heat setting and fastest welding speed of 700IPM? Would the duty cyle lengthen if you weld a short section, let cool and check, then continue? So 2 minutes of ACTUAL welding per 10 minutes? Also, I see some say with or without gas. What gas Oxy/ace? Also, do most welders come with a basic "how to weld" beginning book? I know you have to ground it and such. I have tried the "trail welding" with 2 batteries and jumper cables. I was also wondering if an on board welder would be sufficient to use for occasional welding, or if they are just for emergency welding? I could kill 2 birds with 1 stone that way.

[jeepcj5nut]

Lance,
read here!
http://www.weldingweb.com/index.php

Good source of info and a lot of very experienced welders!!!!

[lancetkenyon]

I signed up, thanks.

[SHNIPE]

220 welder. scrap metal. lots of practice. Beat your welds with a BFH. I practiced welding rings together then smashed em with hammers to make sure i could get a weld good enough. weld all diff angles and youll be fine. Youll learn as you go

[Woody]

Lance,

My entire jeep is built with a Lincoln ProMig 135 110V welder.

Sure, a 220 welder is best, but not necessary for up to 3/16" steel. I've never used 1/4" for anything on my heep, except control arms.

That being said, if you've got the funds, and the electrical supply, go with the 220v.

[gotpower]

Lance,

I got a Lincoln 110v for my "first" welder. It does ok for little tabs and brackets but any heavy duty stuff I bring to work and use the bigger welders.

Also, the duty cycle on mine sucks, ie: its frustrating to run an inch long bead and have the circuit breaker trip. Between price, the amount I use it, and what I use it on "sammi chit is pretty thin" I can make it work.

Also, the 110v wire feed will allow you to use either solid or flux core wire making it a little more universal. I run the solid with 75/25 mix.

I get a discount through Vern Lewis so if you need something lemme know...

jason

[Woody]

My Lincoln 135 will weld at least a foot, if not 2, before it duty cycles.

Not sure why yours only welds an inch??

[terron gregg]

Lance,

My entire jeep is built with a Lincoln ProMig 135 110V welder.

Sure, a 220 welder is best, but not necessary for up to 3/16" steel. I've never used 1/4" for anything on my heep, except control arms.

That being said, if you've got the funds, and the electrical supply, go with the 220v.

everybody has the supply their are quite a few electricians on the board myself included id be willing to trade for?? back on topic

[mingoglia]

So lets see if I am getting a little of this info.........

2 minutes of use and 8 minutes of off, when using highest heat setting and fastest welding speed of 700IPM? Would the duty cyle lengthen if you weld a short section, let cool and check, then continue? So 2 minutes of ACTUAL welding per 10 minutes? Also, I see some say with or without gas. What gas Oxy/ace? Also, do most welders come with a basic "how to weld" beginning book? I know you have to ground it and such. I have tried the "trail welding" with 2 batteries and jumper cables. I was also wondering if an on board welder would be sufficient to use for occasional welding, or if they are just for emergency welding? I could kill 2 birds with 1 stone that way.

Yes, with a 20% duty cycle for every 10 minutes you can weld for 2 minutes and rest for 8. That's at the rated amperage. If that amperage is 160amps and you have lets say a 50% duty rating that means at 80 amps you'll have a 100% duty rating.

If you were to put Oxy/ace through your MIG you'd be up for all sorts of fun. ;) The gas they're referring to is *typically* c25 for mild steel. C25 is made up of 75% argon and 25% co2. You can weld with straight co2 and it will yield higher penetration, but for the best results with mild steel is c25. Argon is heavier than air and lingers around the weld pool, the co2 gives you most of your penetration. If you weld with straight co2 you typically will have to weld in perfectly calm air as co2 is lighter than air and floats away from your weld pool very quickly/easily allowing your weld to oxidize and become contaminated.

Flux core (without gas) will actually give you slightly better penetration. This is especially an advantage with a smaller machine. You can also weld with both gas and flux if you have the wallet and patience for it. Typically you don't use both. One usually uses a flux wire when they're on a budge or are welding in windy conditions as it's less prone to "float" away. Flux core is just like it sounds... it's welding wire that is manufactured in a sheet, it's rolled, then on the inside a flux powder is injected.

A field welder such as my Ready Welder II is a fine welder. It's got tons of penetration. The only disadvantage is you can only adjust the wire speed....also they're always hot unless you pick up that newest option they have where the tip isn't hot.... but the main thing with them is since you can only adjust wire speed you have to weld very hot. Because of this they're definitely not a good first welder. You have to know what you're doing and be able to control the weld pool. I also wouldn't attempt to weld anything thin with it... it is perfect for around 3/16 and higher which makes it perfect for repairing all the things that typically leave you stranded on the side of the trail.

Mike

[gotpower]

My Lincoln 135 will weld at least a foot, if not 2, before it duty cycles.

Not sure why yours only welds an inch??

I may be exagerating a bit... but I know I can't weld for too long before it trips the breaker at my electrical panel.

I'm wondering if its just cheap/crappy breakers in our house, I can't string more than two strings of christmas lights together with out them either kicking CB's or burning fuses on the light strands themselves. I haven't had time to look into it, but I've been wondering if maybe the GFI in the garage is bad and trips/overloads too quickly. Usually, with electrical, it either works or it doesn't.....All I know is it IS FRUSTRATING

[mingoglia]

...one more thing Lance... if you want to meet up I can drop off my Ready Welder and you can practice with it if you'd like...it's easy to transport since it's in a small case. As Kyle mentioned (I believe he has a mm210 like me) the Miller is waaay to heavy to move anywhere. ;) ...even my stick welder is too heavy to move very far.

Mike

[mingoglia]

I may be exagerating a bit... but I know I can't weld for too long before it trips the breaker at my electrical panel.

I'm wondering if its just cheap/crappy breakers in our house, I can't string more than two strings of christmas lights together with out them either kicking CB's or burning fuses on the light strands themselves. I haven't had time to look into it, but I've been wondering if maybe the GFI in the garage is bad and trips/overloads too quickly. Usually, with electrical, it either works or it doesn't.....All I know is it IS FRUSTRATING

Keep in mind a welder doesn't like extension cords. If you're using one make sure it's a much larger diameter wire. In addition most homes are on 15amps and if you're welder requires 20 amps (for a smaller machine) you're going to have problems. Furthermore, transformers don't like brown outs so if you're not able to pull enough juice you could cause some issues with your welder power supply. :(

Mike

[1toughxj]

Try Cyberweld.com I bought my welders and plasma cutter from there. Good pricing and most orders are dropshipped from the manufacturer with free shipping.

[Antman]

Lance,

My entire jeep is built with a Lincoln ProMig 135 110V welder.

Sure, a 220 welder is best, but not necessary for up to 3/16" steel. I've never used 1/4" for anything on my heep, except control arms.

That being said, if you've got the funds, and the electrical supply, go with the 220v.

Hey Woody, I have the same welder and it does fine flux core and it can weld continuously longer than I can.:laugh2: I have welded a ton of stuff on my TJ
and haven't had a weld fail yet. I'm an old stick welder and I don't know if it's age or what, but I have to wear my reading glasses and get my face real
close to the puddle to see it.:wheelchair:
I do however agree, get a 220v at least 180Amps. :sifone:

[FrenchChili]

Keep in mind a welder doesn't like extension cords. If you're using one make sure it's a much larger diameter wire. In addition most homes are on 15amps and if you're welder requires 20 amps (for a smaller machine) you're going to have problems. Furthermore, transformers don't like brown outs so if you're not able to pull enough juice you could cause some issues with your welder power supply. :(

Mike


x2, most welders, but a 220 can handle the extension a lot better than a 110. My previous 110 was cr@p with an extension cord. On the 220(Clarke 180) I replaced the power cord with a 26footer (10gauge) and barely saw any change in power.


Lance, it's awesome Mike proposed you try his welder, do it! You are also welcome to try mine, I have plenty of scrap metal.

[06TJWRANGLER]

Lance, call me man I might be able to get ya one cheaper then your average walk in, since we deal through praxair a lot. You have my number call me tomorrow, plus I dont mind teachin ya how to weld! Here are a few good selections, Id look into for under 800 maybe less.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler125/

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler140/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_140_autoset/

[Allen]

I think I'm just gona get a ready welder (http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/RW10000ADP.html)

[Oc1paddler]

Lance,
I just upgraded my welder last month. The best price's I could find were at weldingdepot.com. I shopped hard and at the last min. decided to stop at prax air on Broadway just east of the 101 to look at a Lincon I was interested in. The manager in their said that they used to just carry Miller and Lincon was offering them smoking rebates. He beat Weldingdepot's price buy $150 bucks and everybody else in town by 4 to 5 hundered. Anyway worth checking out. For what its worth I bought the Lincon 215 and it seems like a very nice machine. It has a much better duty cycle than I need so I never will have to wait.

[mingoglia]

Lance,
I just upgraded my welder last month. The best price's I could find were at weldingdepot.com. I shopped hard and at the last min. decided to stop at prax air on Broadway just east of the 101 to look at a Lincon I was interested in. The manager in their said that they used to just carry Miller and Lincon was offering them smoking rebates. He beat Weldingdepot's price buy $150 bucks and everybody else in town by 4 to 5 hundered. Anyway worth checking out. For what its worth I bought the Lincon 215 and it seems like a very nice machine. It has a much better duty cycle than I need so I never will have to wait.

Lance, I was able to get Phoenix Welding down to the same price on my mm210 as that one Internet seller that sells Miller's cheap with free shipping. I know Jeff S is in the process of picking up a new welder (may want to hit him up on the Undertakers as you might be able to work out a better deal if the two of you buy together.

Mike