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View Full Version : AZ Wilderness Coalition - Link - Martinez Cyn



RokNRich
12-31-2007, 09:10 PM
This is an oldie but goodie. The attack on us in regards to Martinez Cyn begins on page 7.

http://www.azwild.org/documents/AZWILDFall2006-07LR.pdf

Thought there was a recent thread somewhere in regards to Martinez :confused:

GRUNT
12-31-2007, 09:42 PM
Don't get me wrong, I am all for saving this for our kids and hanging the idiots who trail blaze but these greenies that write this tripe are "one-way" and as closed minded as any hardcore Democrat(or Neo-Conservative for that matter) who has an agenda. I love it when articles include "one-sided" stats...

Whew, sorry for the incoherent rant, I am tired after 48 hours of working....

1BLKJP
01-02-2008, 03:21 PM
Martinez Canyon is Jason Williams biggest hard on in the entire state. Regardless of the proof that we have shown him and "BLM VOLUNTEER" Tom Taylor that the cabin fell due to excessive water flow at some point in time in the canyon they still feel that we had something to do with it. We have pictures that have been provided of that canyon over the last 30 years also that show natural erosion and changing of the landscape in a big way for parts of that canyon that vehicles don't even travel in.

I especially like the 20 "Toxic" spills that have been witnessed in 34 years by Tom Taylor. These articles are some of the major reasons the Coalition was put together to get "EVERYONE's" OHV voice heard.

My1stJeep
01-02-2008, 04:33 PM
We even have taken someone with a biology a degree in there, and they noted the spills they could find, it did not number 20 and the even put their hand held GPS next to them to show the minute size. This all leads to the fact that they don't listen to real information and science. They instead, take their own version of their vision, then the run to whomever will listen, often the media, run off invalid facts as truth and begin to sway public opinion.

On a side note, this is the same organization that during all those meetings was listening in, was working toward solutions and in agreement with us on trying the gate and other options, and we had given on several fronts that made sense, and right before the end, they renigged on all of their deals with us. Basically they went as far as they could to see if we would give anymore, then took all their offers off the table.

There is no real science that will close Martinez, but the opinionated version they have presented may in fact sway public opinion and assist them.

We need to stay focused, be nice in our presentations, stick to the facts and continue our efforts to show what we as the OHV community are doing to actually preserve the environment and our areas. We need to show our clean up efforts, and what we do in a positive light, and numbers, just how many of us out there we are.

I will say this, and cannot stress it enough, making flip comments don't help. At one meeting we were making some good progress and one person making the flip comment shut down the progress immediately. We have to be maintain our composure and stick to the facts and how we can help the land management organization and the areas we are discussing.

RokNRich
01-02-2008, 04:38 PM
Hey, you guys (Jack, Chris) heard anything about the fencing that was sighted up there last week ?

1BLKJP
01-02-2008, 04:54 PM
Hey, you guys (Jack, Chris) heard anything about the fencing that was sighted up there last week ?

Rich, I've put some inquiries in about it, but haven't heard anything back yet. Thanks for the reminder to follow up.

Allen
01-02-2008, 05:39 PM
Just my own personal opinion of the fence....


it looks to be there to replace the current fence made of chicken wire that runs along the ledge just after the cowboy grave. It's light gauge 1" steel and only about 24" high. All the gates I ever seen built are 6" steel posts and 3" steel gates.

They have also been offloaded at different places along the ledge, 6 stacks of 10 foot sections, or 360 feet of lightweight fence. Just enough to replace the chicken wire fence!

1BLKJP
01-03-2008, 04:13 PM
Just my own personal opinion of the fence....


it looks to be there to replace the current fence made of chicken wire that runs along the ledge just after the cowboy grave. It's light gauge 1" steel and only about 24" high. All the gates I ever seen built are 6" steel posts and 3" steel gates.

They have also been offloaded at different places along the ledge, 6 stacks of 10 foot sections, or 360 feet of lightweight fence. Just enough to replace the chicken wire fence!

Good to know Allen. I don't get out on Martinez much so I do rely some on you all that do get on it alot. Next time anyone is out there if they can get some pics for me and email them to me at 1blkjp@gmail.com I'd appreciate it.

RokNRich
01-13-2008, 11:53 PM
Picture of the fencing taken 1/12/07 by these guys:

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=30031

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/baldsquirell/P1000075.jpg

Xiled1
01-14-2008, 08:29 AM
There were four piles of this fencing out there and its not really the type (size, thickness) you would use to close a trail. More for fencing off an area, perhaps for cattle or people. If they tried to use that to close the trail, it would be down in a week. Hope that helps.

Sandee McCullen
02-23-2008, 10:09 PM
Just my own personal opinion of the fence....


it looks to be there to replace the current fence made of chicken wire that runs along the ledge just after the cowboy grave. It's light gauge 1" steel and only about 24" high. All the gates I ever seen built are 6" steel posts and 3" steel gates.

They have also been offloaded at different places along the ledge, 6 stacks of 10 foot sections, or 360 feet of lightweight fence. Just enough to replace the chicken wire fence!

Absolutely correct........... heard it from the "horeses mouth" earlier this week in an MGCP meeting. Game & Fish are installing pipe fencing to replace the barbed wire to keep the cattle out of the water holes. They didn't have any answer regarding it also keeping the big horn sheep or deer out....... oh well. Game & Fishes NEWEST try at closing Martinez is to request BLM to designate the entire area as a National Conservation Area, thusly closing off all trails to OHV. The major ROADS (Mineral Mtn and Cottonwood Canyon) would be allowed. DUH! National Conservation areas require national designation.............. not field office designation. Tucson still hasn't completed the "Activity Plan" for this area but hope to have it done by May.???? I truly cannot get a feel for what their designation will be but I made it clear that I will not support BLM receiving OHV dollars for gates used to close access to OHV. I was told "we wouldn't do that". Anyones guess as to the final designation I guess.
Tucson has a new field manager as Patrick Madigan left 4-5 months ago for Wyo. The new field manager, Brian Bellew, will report for work on March 31. He's from Socorro NM. Hopefully everyone will give him a chance but I'm not holding my breath as I know the Socorro NM area are closing alot of trails and areas............ hopefully not a result of Brian!!! We'll see.

corwyyn
02-23-2008, 10:14 PM
I was out at Martinez Cabin today and can verify that they are installing the fence, about 8-12" in front of where the current barb-wire fence is. The road is not affected and it looks like they haven't completed it yet but as far as I can tell it shouldn't be a concern.

Sedona Jeep School
02-24-2008, 07:32 AM
The new field manager, Brian Bellew, will report for work on March 31. He's from Socorro NM. Hopefully everyone will give him a chance but I'm not holding my breath as I know the Socorro NM area are closing alot of trails and areas............ hopefully not a result of Brian!!! We'll see.

Thanks for the update Sandee. Maybe we should make the effort to go meet him and welcome him--get off on the right foot! We could invite him out to a clean-up or educational event. ?

Sandee McCullen
02-24-2008, 07:52 AM
Thanks for the update Sandee. Maybe we should make the effort to go meet him and welcome him--get off on the right foot! We could invite him out to a clean-up or educational event. ?

Good idea but we should probably give him time to get his feet settled and get a feel for where he's headed. I'm sure he'll be involved in the MGCP as soon as possible so maybe getting a few more of our fellow OHV enthusiasts that recreate in the FJ area a lot to attend the MGCP meetings will help ease him in. I believe Patrick was bombarded by red shirts at which time he took a defensive stand towards us. We may not like it but we must understand the fact that the Tucson office takes A LOT of push from the extreme environmentalists along with a very green or "save the wildlife" attitude from the Tucson Game & Fish group. BLM must play the game whether we like it or not.

Arizona lost 4 field managers within a couple of months so each one of the new managers need time to catch up and Tucson is by far the toughest!!!

We just need to stay involved and stay visual without an attitude.