blooddrive
01-05-2004, 10:49 PM
64012-64036
64012 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: RE: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
Rick I didnt see the pics they mut have been Flexy and
Jim F huh.
Jim L
--- Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
> I wouldnt be too scared of those two pics. Neither
> of those guys know how to
> wheel anyway ;)
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
>
>
> It's a joke, people :)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert McNeeley
> [mailto:fatbob309@e...]
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 8:06 AM
> To: 'Stu Olson'; 'Nasser'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> Allan Alexander
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1,
> 2002 - Reminder
>
>
> I was out there (lower Term) for a clean up (rock
> unstacking) and I walked
> most of it. Most of the time people will have an
> open seat that you snag.
> Here is two picks of Lower Term. Rio took the
> picks.
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allan Alexander" <ajalex15@c...>
> To: "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
> <nasser88@c...>;
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:50 AM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> Reminder
>
>
> > Thanks for all of the input guys... Is there a way
> to go out there and
> > watch... Are they long trails...
> >
> > Allan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:31 AM
> > To: 'Nasser'; 'allanalxndr';
> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1,
> > 2002 - Reminder
> >
> > I agree with Nasser on this. There is nothing
> wrong with starting on
> > something just a bit easier and working one's way
> up to the more
> > challenging trails. Put another way, I would not
> take a friend of mine
> > that was new to Jeepin' on the Terminators.
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:42 PM
> > To: allanalxndr; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: jay@t...
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1,
> > 2002 - Reminder
> >
> > Allan,
> >
> > I do not recommend the Terminators or the Predator
> to a beginner with a
> > Jeep
> > with open differentials. You will wind up
> stacking rocks (which is OK
> > as
> > long as you remove them) or getting strapped or
> worse, break something.
> > Simply it will not be any fun for you and others.
> >
> > I suggest upper woodpecker as rock crawling 101
> were you can pick and
> > choose
> > the obstacles, and try your limits and that of
> your vehicle's. Or try
> > Trail
> > 42. Let me know if you are interested, I'll set
> up a trail run.
> >
> > Nasser
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:51 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > Reminder
> >
> > Ok, I will look into it, Not sure what I have
> going on... Can I get
> > some directions also
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Allan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
64013 From: bermboy2000 <bermboy@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:03pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
Well, you got one right, it was flexy when he almost rolled in the z-
turn, and me on the terminator.
Scott Maiden
--- In az_vjc@y..., jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...> wrote:
> Rick I didnt see the pics they mut have been Flexy and
> Jim F huh.
> Jim L
> --- Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
> > I wouldnt be too scared of those two pics. Neither
> > of those guys know how to
> > wheel anyway ;)
> >
> > Rick
> > XTRM XJ
> >
> >
> > It's a joke, people :)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert McNeeley
> > [mailto:fatbob309@e...]
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 8:06 AM
> > To: 'Stu Olson'; 'Nasser'; az_vjc@y...;
> > Allan Alexander
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > 2002 - Reminder
> >
> >
> > I was out there (lower Term) for a clean up (rock
> > unstacking) and I walked
> > most of it. Most of the time people will have an
> > open seat that you snag.
> > Here is two picks of Lower Term. Rio took the
> > picks.
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Allan Alexander" <ajalex15@c...>
> > To: "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
> > <nasser88@c...>;
> > <az_vjc@y...>
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:50 AM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > Reminder
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for all of the input guys... Is there a way
> > to go out there and
> > > watch... Are they long trails...
> > >
> > > Allan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:31 AM
> > > To: 'Nasser'; 'allanalxndr';
> > az_vjc@y...
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > > I agree with Nasser on this. There is nothing
> > wrong with starting on
> > > something just a bit easier and working one's way
> > up to the more
> > > challenging trails. Put another way, I would not
> > take a friend of mine
> > > that was new to Jeepin' on the Terminators.
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:42 PM
> > > To: allanalxndr; az_vjc@y...
> > > Cc: jay@t...
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > > Allan,
> > >
> > > I do not recommend the Terminators or the Predator
> > to a beginner with a
> > > Jeep
> > > with open differentials. You will wind up
> > stacking rocks (which is OK
> > > as
> > > long as you remove them) or getting strapped or
> > worse, break something.
> > > Simply it will not be any fun for you and others.
> > >
> > > I suggest upper woodpecker as rock crawling 101
> > were you can pick and
> > > choose
> > > the obstacles, and try your limits and that of
> > your vehicle's. Or try
> > > Trail
> > > 42. Let me know if you are interested, I'll set
> > up a trail run.
> > >
> > > Nasser
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:51 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > > Reminder
> > >
> > > Ok, I will look into it, Not sure what I have
> > going on... Can I get
> > > some directions also
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Allan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
64014 From: Robert McNeeley <fatbob309@e...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
It was Scott and Flexy.... The one was just after Flexy nearly rolled it at
the z turn.
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimmy lambertus" <jeepnazus@y...>
To: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>; "Robert McNeeley"
<fatbob309@e...>; "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
<nasser88@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Allan Alexander"
<ajalex15@c...>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:01 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
Reminder
> Rick I didnt see the pics they mut have been Flexy and
> Jim F huh.
> Jim L
> --- Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
> > I wouldnt be too scared of those two pics. Neither
> > of those guys know how to
> > wheel anyway ;)
> >
> > Rick
> > XTRM XJ
> >
> >
> > It's a joke, people :)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert McNeeley
> > [mailto:fatbob309@e...]
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 8:06 AM
> > To: 'Stu Olson'; 'Nasser'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > Allan Alexander
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > 2002 - Reminder
> >
> >
> > I was out there (lower Term) for a clean up (rock
> > unstacking) and I walked
> > most of it. Most of the time people will have an
> > open seat that you snag.
> > Here is two picks of Lower Term. Rio took the
> > picks.
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Allan Alexander" <ajalex15@c...>
> > To: "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
> > <nasser88@c...>;
> > <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:50 AM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > Reminder
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for all of the input guys... Is there a way
> > to go out there and
> > > watch... Are they long trails...
> > >
> > > Allan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:31 AM
> > > To: 'Nasser'; 'allanalxndr';
> > az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > > I agree with Nasser on this. There is nothing
> > wrong with starting on
> > > something just a bit easier and working one's way
> > up to the more
> > > challenging trails. Put another way, I would not
> > take a friend of mine
> > > that was new to Jeepin' on the Terminators.
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:42 PM
> > > To: allanalxndr; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Cc: jay@t...
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > > Allan,
> > >
> > > I do not recommend the Terminators or the Predator
> > to a beginner with a
> > > Jeep
> > > with open differentials. You will wind up
> > stacking rocks (which is OK
> > > as
> > > long as you remove them) or getting strapped or
> > worse, break something.
> > > Simply it will not be any fun for you and others.
> > >
> > > I suggest upper woodpecker as rock crawling 101
> > were you can pick and
> > > choose
> > > the obstacles, and try your limits and that of
> > your vehicle's. Or try
> > > Trail
> > > 42. Let me know if you are interested, I'll set
> > up a trail run.
> > >
> > > Nasser
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:51 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > > Reminder
> > >
> > > Ok, I will look into it, Not sure what I have
> > going on... Can I get
> > > some directions also
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Allan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
64015 From: jeepindog <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:29pm
Subject: Re: Trail Ethics
Sandee,
In regards to your questions below, I think that if you turn to
shows like "Jenny Jones", "Jerry Springer", and most tv programs in
general, you will find your answer. The people who will not respect
these gates or obstructions are the ones who do not belong to any 4x4
clubs. (Hint: their necks are quite rosy in hue!)
Lachlan
<snip>Is there that much "lack of honor" out there? Is our problem
a "blatant disrespect of our lands and resources" or is simply "being
thoughtless" or "uneducated"??
>
> Sandee
64016 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:31pm
Subject: RE: "Tag... your it!!!!"
If that was the Jeep on Greenway the poor guy works at Discount and his Jeep is not running yet:) He also only lives about 4 houses from me so I will have to keep the garage closed for a while:) Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Holmes [mailto:rjholmes@dustrunner.com]
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:34 AM
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] "Tag... your it!!!!"
was the the Yellow YJ on Greenway that sits on the left side of the street?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
64017 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:49pm
Subject: RE: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
Well Jim you were half right Flexy and Scott M. I knew Rick would not post
his comment if I was in it:)
Allen we walked and watched on 90% of the trails we now run before we ran
them. I think that is a good policy to stick to. Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
64018 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:02pm
Subject: [TR] Unspecified - Saturday, August 24, 2002
Hello All,
Gary Oglesby is leading an Unspecified trail run on Saturday, August 24, 2002.
When: 10 am - or any other time is fine...
Where: Meet in Ajo @ Dairy Queen on Highway 85
Rating: None
Length: 3-5 hours
CB Channel: 4
Riding around the backroads, in and out of 4 wheel drive. Just wanting to get out of town go to some favorite spots. Nothing very tough, trail rating 2.5 to 3max. Probably won't hit much of the washes with the temps so high (I overheat to easily.)
I will be there all weekend (leaving phx @ 4:30pm) so will also be hitting the trails at night (much cooler.) Friday and Saturday night.
Ajo is about 1 hour 45 minutes from down town phoenix.
If you want to go other than the time listed just call me. I won't have my computer but will have my cell phone so call if you can make it at the time listed or any other.
(623) 694-9510
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
64019 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:08pm
Subject: RE: Trail Ethics
Sandee as many people that this club reaches and educates there are a lot
more that have no clue. We as responsible 4 wheelers can only educate those
we touch. We all do that including the ASA and associated clubs. Please do
not (not intended to you Sandee) Characterize our sport by the lowest common
denominator. If we did that to the anti-recreationist they would all be in
line with the Unabomber. Keep up the fight we reach more and more all the
time. Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
64020 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:20pm
Subject: [FS] NP231 Transfer Case
Price: Best Offer
Contact: Theon Wier
NP231 transfer case from a 1997 Jeep Cherokee, never used off road, fluids changed every 15,000 miles, Jeep has 97000 highway miles on it, no leaks. Bought a new family van, now I can build my project Jeep, Replacing it with Atlas II. Wanting to sell badly. Will consider any reasonable offer.
Have other parts from 1990 Jeep as well, and the springs from this 1997.
Theon Wier
64021 From: <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:31am
Subject: Re: Aluminum Alloy Tie Rods-calling BS.
Well concidering the fact you can see on my sway bar bracket where the tie
rod was pushed into it and the diff cover and its only happened to one Jeep
one time ...I dont see how you come up with the BS factor. Im sure someone
else would have managed to have done it by now dont you think. Also the fact
that my Jeep was being strapped at the time and you had the force of both
vehicles slamming it into the rock Id say also played a big part. Everyone
has their own likes and dislikes...I happen to love the Alumi-Flex tie rod
and is why I went with the complete system in the larger diameter...the point
is not whether it works or not (we all know that it works), but wheether it
is safe or not and I have not seen any evidence to prove to me it isnt.
Sharky
64022 From: Mike Beach <mikebeach2002@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:39pm
Subject: Car show tonight? (35th Ave and Northern)
Is anyone going to the car show on 35th ave and Northern tonight? Im thinking about going out there around 6:30-7. Hope to see some jeepers out there. Shoot me an e-mail or call me if you want
Mike Beach
602-405-4606
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
64023 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:48pm
Subject: Re: Car show tonight? (35th Ave and Northern)
Mike:
I'll meet you out there with the Camo Cow. 6:30-7:00 seems good.
Gary Holmes
Mike Beach wrote:
Is anyone going to the car show on 35th ave and Northern tonight? Im thinking about going out there around 6:30-7. Hope to see some jeepers out there. Shoot me an e-mail or call me if you want
Mike Beach
602-405-4606
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
64024 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
Who was behind Flexy? Must have looked pretty cool
huh.
Jim L
--- Robert McNeeley <fatbob309@e...> wrote:
> It was Scott and Flexy.... The one was just after
> Flexy nearly rolled it at
> the z turn.
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jimmy lambertus" <jeepnazus@y...>
> To: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>; "Robert
> McNeeley"
> <fatbob309@e...>; "'Stu Olson'"
> <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
> <nasser88@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Allan
> Alexander"
> <ajalex15@c...>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> Reminder
>
>
> > Rick I didnt see the pics they mut have been Flexy
> and
> > Jim F huh.
> > Jim L
> > --- Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
> > > I wouldnt be too scared of those two pics.
> Neither
> > > of those guys know how to
> > > wheel anyway ;)
> > >
> > > Rick
> > > XTRM XJ
> > >
> > >
> > > It's a joke, people :)
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Robert McNeeley
> > > [mailto:fatbob309@e...]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 8:06 AM
> > > To: 'Stu Olson'; 'Nasser';
> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > Allan Alexander
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > >
> > > I was out there (lower Term) for a clean up
> (rock
> > > unstacking) and I walked
> > > most of it. Most of the time people will have an
> > > open seat that you snag.
> > > Here is two picks of Lower Term. Rio took the
> > > picks.
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Allan Alexander" <ajalex15@c...>
> > > To: "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>;
> "'Nasser'"
> > > <nasser88@c...>;
> > > <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:50 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > > Reminder
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks for all of the input guys... Is there a
> way
> > > to go out there and
> > > > watch... Are they long trails...
> > > >
> > > > Allan
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:31 AM
> > > > To: 'Nasser'; 'allanalxndr';
> > > az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area
> -
> > > Sunday, September 1,
> > > > 2002 - Reminder
> > > >
> > > > I agree with Nasser on this. There is nothing
> > > wrong with starting on
> > > > something just a bit easier and working one's
> way
> > > up to the more
> > > > challenging trails. Put another way, I would
> not
> > > take a friend of mine
> > > > that was new to Jeepin' on the Terminators.
> > > >
> > > > Stu Olson
> > > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:42 PM
> > > > To: allanalxndr; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Cc: jay@t...
> > > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area
> -
> > > Sunday, September 1,
> > > > 2002 - Reminder
> > > >
> > > > Allan,
> > > >
> > > > I do not recommend the Terminators or the
> Predator
> > > to a beginner with a
> > > > Jeep
> > > > with open differentials. You will wind up
> > > stacking rocks (which is OK
> > > > as
> > > > long as you remove them) or getting strapped
> or
> > > worse, break something.
> > > > Simply it will not be any fun for you and
> others.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest upper woodpecker as rock crawling
> 101
> > > were you can pick and
> > > > choose
> > > > the obstacles, and try your limits and that of
> > > your vehicle's. Or try
> > > > Trail
> > > > 42. Let me know if you are interested, I'll
> set
> > > up a trail run.
> > > >
> > > > Nasser
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:51 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > > > Reminder
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I will look into it, Not sure what I have
> > > going on... Can I get
> > > > some directions also
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Allan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> > http://finance.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
64025 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:16pm
Subject: [FS] TRADE D30 Locked D35 Open 410 R&P
Price: TRAK++
Contact: squarelights@aol.com
Nick Lara
64026 From: blt4rox <blt4rox@e...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:16pm
Subject: Aluminum Alloy -BS reply
Sharky,
Agreed. There hasn't been any evidence to either prove nor disprove
that aluminum steering is safe over the long haul. Time will tell.
I never said that it was unsafe, merely that I did not know one way
or the other.
As for calling BS, that same thing would have happened to any Jeep
with the alumiflex steering in that situation. You stated it was a 1
in a million thing. If we took another Jeep with the same steering,
placed it in the same spot, did the same thing, the result would be
the same. I called BS in a joking manner about that particular
instance. What's at issue is whether or not a steel tie rod would've
broken in the same situation. The answer is a resounding NO. It
probably would have bent or snapped a tie rod end, but it wouldn't
have fractured the tubing. The difference is, a snapped tie rod end
could've been changed or the tie rod itself straightened. The same
can't be said for aluminum.
Take care,
Sean
PS. For some reason this site isn't allowing me to reply to any
emails. Sorry for the new post.
64027 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:21pm
Subject: [FS] Trade D30 Locked D35 Open 410 R&P
Price: Trade
Contact: squarelights@aol.com
Its from a 93 YJ SOA or SUA, Spare d35 axle shafts. 410 R&P.; I want to trade for bigger axles. Thanks
Nick L.
Nick Lara
64028 From: jeepdaddy56 <jeepdaddy56@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:34pm
Subject: Re: [FS] SWAP MEET?
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
> I actually was talking about it before the CK run and I'm just
looking for a location in the metrocenter area. I was going to work
on on it this weekend
64029 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:53pm
Subject: RE: Jawbreaker
Fellow Recreationists.............
Below............... go to bottom and scroll up, are the communications
between Brad Jones and myself. He requested I forward copy of his letter to
the Tucson BLM office to all of you. I am doing that.
Again, I do not agree Brad should be communicating as the voice of the
ASA4WDC if the members/delegates/board do not back him in this issue. He
certainly has the right to "not agree with me" but he does not have the
right to speak for the ASA4WDC without support from it's
members.............. are the clubs/members supporting Brads actions or
decisions? Within the ASA4WDC organizations neither the President or the
Executive Board have a "vote". ONLY the club delegates (2 per club)have a
vote. Has he polled anyone from the OHV community?? He is not approaching
the BLM office as a "representative of the OHV community" or "his personal
opinion"....... he's "representing ASA4WDC" an organization of 25 clubs and
approx 800 members. His attitude in his letter below is much more open than
it was following the ASA4WDC delegate meeting this past weekend and he now
reflects a combination of mitigating measures. We cannot "educate" if we
don't ALL agree. I need to believe "most" of the inconsiderate
recreationists WILL wake up and see the light........ I know there will
always be some that will not "follow the rules nor care" ........... as
responsible recreationists WE need to report those that are not being
respectful. A few LARGE dollar citations may turn numbers around. It made
a difference with the use of the State Land Permit. Who
knows?...............
Due to the mishandling of several issues regarding the Jamboree Brad needed
to step in and resolve these problems relating to Jamboree or there would
not have been a permit granted this year. Many of the issues that arose
from the approval/denial of the Jamboree permit are going to be ongoing
issues throughout the entire recreational community and I am, for one,
thankful Brad was able to get these issue straightened out for Jamboree.
The requirements Brad has set forth regarding the Jamboree are EXACTLY the
guidelines that have been enforced every year within Jamboree..... Other
than asking paying participants to "help restore" the Jawbreaker trail, each
and every requirement is the same as past years. The "impact" on this trail
comes from use outside Jamboree. These are the recreationists we need to
"educate"............ Possible?, I don't know, but I sure want to try.
I have received a large number of responses to my original letter and 99%
support "using an obstacle and signs before a gate".............. a few
felt both may be needed but liked the idea of an obstacle first. I had one
response where they felt a gate was probably best although they didn't feel
it would work.
An obstacle with interpretive signs may not be the answer but it's my
opinion, as well as numerous other agency offices, that this is a working
solution. It has been tried and proven.
Please forward this information to your 4x4 lists and keep in touch re your
thoughts or opinions.............. we need to join together. We are
looking at closures and limited access to many of our trails......... we
must join together and ALL work towards mitigating actions that benefit
everyone.
THANKS to all of you that DO CARE!!!.......... Sandee
#3
Brad,
Thank you for responding to this issue but the bottom line is I'm not
convinced an obstacle with signing will not reduce the impact enough that an
"ugly" gate is needed. I would hope we would give the recreationists the
option to "abide by the rules / Tread Lightly BEFORE we put up gates that
seem to openly "dare" some recreationists to find a way around.
I will forward your letter to my mailing list but your letter does not solve
the problem. I feel you need to consult with your
clubs/delegates/members/recreationists before stepping in as the "voice" for
ASA4WDC without the direction/agreement from the members on issues outside
the problem with Jamboree. When I presented my proposal it was done as a
result of actual "working cases". I was not "representing or speaking for
anyone other than proposing a mitigation that has been used and is very
successful.
Sandee
>
>#2
> Sandee;
> Attached is the letter I wrote to the Tucson BLM office to document our
> discussions during several meetings. It is essentially what we
> discussed at
> the Quarterly meeting in Happy Jack. After your comments about
> the entrance
> obstacles, I now feel that a combination of technical and administrative
> measures are needed to reach an agreement on the continued use of the
> Jawbreaker Trail.
> Please distribute this attachment to your mailing list.
> BCNU,
> Brad
Arizona State Association of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs
P. O. Box 23904
Tempe, Arizona 85285
Ms. Linda Marianito
Mr. Francisco Mendoza
Bureau of Land Management
12661 East Broadway Road
Tucson, Arizona 85748-7208
Dear Linda and Francisco;
Thank you for taking the time and providing transportation to review the
Jawbreaker Trail yesterday. It was time well spent to evaluate the impacts
of vehicle use and for me to understand some of the topography and history
of roadways in the Lower Martinez Canyon.
We agree that the trail needs to be restored and long term actions need to
be taken to avoid further negative impacts of Off Highway Vehicle use of
the route in the canyon.
As a part of the Jamboree permit for 2002, the ASA4WDC would agree;
a. To restore the trail by removing and relocating rocks that have been
placed to reduce obstacle difficulty.
b. To restrict all Jamboree vehicles to those that are capable of using the
trail with no ‘rock-stacking’. (Lockers and lifts will be required and
enforced by technical inspection.)
c. The trail will be clearly identified to ensure vehicles use the least
intrusive ‘line’.
d. The past year permit restrictions (15 vehicles per trip, one trip per
day, etc.) would also be in effect for this 2002 permit. (We plan to request
trail participants to help with the trail restoration.)
In addition to these Jamboree specific actions, we would also set a
requirement that the ASA4WDC and BLM will jointly develop a long term
control system that would achieve an equilibrium of recreational use and
resource protection for this beautiful canyon. We agree it is a unique
riparian area in this desert region that must be protected to conserve the
natural resources while ensuring recreational opportunities for the future.
The resource protection provisions may include (but not be limited to);
1. Technical obstacles at the entrances to ‘filter’ vehicles to ensure
capability so ‘rock-stacking’ would not be needed.
2. Signs that explain the sensitive nature of the area and the controls to
ensure conservation and continued vehicle access.
3. Gating or other control mechanisms that could be used to limit traffic.
4. Development of a day-use permit system that would limit the number of
vehicles accessing the trail, with provisions for seasonal or climatic
variations in the number of permits.
We also agreed that the other two alternatives (do nothing or complete
closure) were extreme and unacceptable to both the ASA4WDC and BLM.
Thanks again for your help and consideration of our permit application,
Brad Jones
President
ASA4WDC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> To: <mccullen@c...>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:04 AM
> Subject: Jawbreaker
>
>#1
> > Fellow 4-wheelers.......
> >
> > I'm writing because I need your help...... or at least your opinion on
> this
> > issue.
> >
> > I'm sure most, if not all, of you know the touchy situation Jawbreaker
> Trail
> > has been in over the past couple of years. The Tucson BLM would like
> > nothing better than to close this trail to OHV........ PERIOD. This
> trail
> > has been used for many years but was opened to the ASA4WDC
> Jamboree trail
> > lineup a couple of years ago. Because of this, the exposure
> has been such
> > that the impact from vehicles not truly capable of traversing this trail
> > without doing damage, making by-passes, or stacking rocks has
> brought the
> > impact to this canyon/trail to a serious issue. Several biologists and
> > numerous land specialists have viewed this trail over the past couple of
> > years and the bottom line decision is: "Riparian, functioning but at
> risk".
> > This means simply that any more impact will CLOSE this trail to us.
> >
> > On to my main issue............. I have been trying to encourage the
> Tucson
> > BLM office to "build an obstacle as tough or tougher than the main
> obstacle
> > within the trail" with signing explaining the issues. The mitigating
> > actions of "building an obstacle" to limit the vehicle access has been
> used
> > across the country with huge success. The reason for this
> action in lieu
> of
> > simply "gating" the trail is this. A gate simply gives "actual numbers"
> > where the agency can know the exact numbers of vehicles in and
> out whereas
> > an "obstacle" would limit the vehicles that are doing the
> impact. A gate
> > would not limit the vehicles that are causing the impact. It would not
> stop
> > those vehicles that should not be on a 3.5++ rated trail. An obstacle
> > would.
> >
> > My reasoning is I believe most recreationists would honor an
> obstacle with
> a
> > sign indicating the reason in limiting the impact to this trail. If the
> > "responsibility" of this trail is put to the recreationist (US) the
> > "ownership" / "stewardship" is on the shoulders of the recreationist
> > where..... hopefully........ honor and respect begins to
> build. It may
> > well be that down the line we may have to gate this trail as well due to
> > seasonal closures that might be needed but I still feel (or hope) my
> fellow
> > recreationist would honor a sign asking them to respect or stay
> out for a
> > specific time.
> >
> > My problem is that I had a committment from the Tucson office
> to build the
> > obstacles and place signs at Jawbreaker and Martinez in lieu of
> > closing........... I have now found out that Brad Jones, ASA4WDC
> President,
> > has openly "vetoed" my plans and says "he will personally work with the
> > Tucson office to find another solution other than building an obstacle".
> > His alternative plan is to "build a gate". His reason is: He "feels he
> has
> > a right to traverse and see this canyon as much as anyone else". I
> > disagree............ he has a right IF his vehicle is equipped
> to do so.
> > Francisco Mendoza has told me he has "put the <my> plans on hold for now
> as
> > he wants to review Brads plans more because he feels Brad represents the
> > ASA4WDC". Meaning he has a larger supporting group than I. Is Brad
> > "speaking" for the ASA4WDC? What about those of you not affiliated with
> the
> > ASA4WDC?
> >
> > I would appreciate your input or the decisions/thoughts of your clubs on
> > this issue. If the thoughts of the greater portion of the OHV community
> > would rather see a gate in lieu of an obstacle please let me know your
> vote.
> > Something HAS to be done or they will simply close this, and
> other trails,
> > to ALL OHV use. Trails are rated for this very
> reason.............. some
> > trails simply need lockers or special equipment to traverse
> without doing
> > unnecessary impact to the lands and resources. In replying please note
> > whether your vehicle has lockers or not, and if so.........
> what kind and
> > where.
> >
> > Thanks for your help, Sandee
> >
> >
> >
>
64030 From: RICK BEER <RIKNAZ@M...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:05pm
Subject: Atten. John Rabenius
John please e-mail or call me @ home 480-502-4995
THANKS RICK BEER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
64031 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:18pm
Subject: [FS] WANTED !!! Warn winch & Bead lock wheels.
Price:
Contact: gary mcleer 623-465-0576 or gary@hdesert.com
Am looking for a warn winch at least 8000 lb or more. Will pay cash or trade for a can soda machine. I am a vendor and have many soda machines for sale or trade. I am also looking for bead lock wheels for ford 9" axles. Also need a 35" super swamper w/ wheel for a spare.
64032 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:22pm
Subject: [FS] Tj Hard top for sale 97-02 Dark Tan
Price: $1000.00/obo
Contact: mikeg407@cox.net
Selling the factory dark tan hardtop off my 1999 sahara. It has tinted windows,rear defroster, window wiper/washer. It is in great condition with no cracks or chips that I've seen. It does have a few scrapes and scratches. The inside is white and very clean.I have only had the jeep a few days so they were there when I got it. The top is on eBay if you would like to see a pic of it. The auction goes another 6 days or you can contact me via email with offers. Thanks
Mike Garcia
64033 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:11pm
Subject: Re: Aluminum Alloy Tie Rods-calling BS.
Ok, been out of town, but now I'm back.
On aluminum tie rods, they are cute. If you like em, keep em, I am sorry
they aren't as strong as steel.
Relax, take a deep breath and welcome yourself back to reality.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: <sharxjeep@c...>
To: <blt4rox@e...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Aluminum Alloy Tie Rods-calling BS.
> Well concidering the fact you can see on my sway bar bracket where the tie
> rod was pushed into it and the diff cover and its only happened to one
Jeep
> one time ...I dont see how you come up with the BS factor. Im sure someone
> else would have managed to have done it by now dont you think. Also the
fact
> that my Jeep was being strapped at the time and you had the force of both
> vehicles slamming it into the rock Id say also played a big part. Everyone
> has their own likes and dislikes...I happen to love the Alumi-Flex tie rod
> and is why I went with the complete system in the larger diameter...the
point
> is not whether it works or not (we all know that it works), but wheether
it
> is safe or not and I have not seen any evidence to prove to me it isnt.
>
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
64034 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Aluminum Alloy -BS reply
oops, you forgot somehow to mention you could have welded the steel one and
got off the trail.....
Sincerely, the Aluminum tie rods are super sexy, but if you are really into
rockcrawling, they are not practical.
Just get a bigger steel one if you are bending or breaking yours.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: "blt4rox" <blt4rox@e...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 4:16 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Aluminum Alloy -BS reply
> Sharky,
> Agreed. There hasn't been any evidence to either prove nor disprove
> that aluminum steering is safe over the long haul. Time will tell.
> I never said that it was unsafe, merely that I did not know one way
> or the other.
>
> As for calling BS, that same thing would have happened to any Jeep
> with the alumiflex steering in that situation. You stated it was a 1
> in a million thing. If we took another Jeep with the same steering,
> placed it in the same spot, did the same thing, the result would be
> the same. I called BS in a joking manner about that particular
> instance. What's at issue is whether or not a steel tie rod would've
> broken in the same situation. The answer is a resounding NO. It
> probably would have bent or snapped a tie rod end, but it wouldn't
> have fractured the tubing. The difference is, a snapped tie rod end
> could've been changed or the tie rod itself straightened. The same
> can't be said for aluminum.
>
> Take care,
> Sean
>
> PS. For some reason this site isn't allowing me to reply to any
> emails. Sorry for the new post.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
64035 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:22pm
Subject: [FS] D35
Price: $250
Contact: dzrtoffroad@aol.com
SUA,3.55's,non c-clip,trac lok. in great shape. also have brand new u-bolts- never been used.
steve sample
64036 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:24pm
Subject: [FS] rear seat
Price: $75
Contact: dzrtoffroad@aol;.com
in xlnt cond. black stock,fold-and-tumble. complete with all brackets/hardware and seat belts. no rips/tears/fade.
steve sample
64012 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: RE: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
Rick I didnt see the pics they mut have been Flexy and
Jim F huh.
Jim L
--- Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
> I wouldnt be too scared of those two pics. Neither
> of those guys know how to
> wheel anyway ;)
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
>
>
> It's a joke, people :)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert McNeeley
> [mailto:fatbob309@e...]
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 8:06 AM
> To: 'Stu Olson'; 'Nasser'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> Allan Alexander
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1,
> 2002 - Reminder
>
>
> I was out there (lower Term) for a clean up (rock
> unstacking) and I walked
> most of it. Most of the time people will have an
> open seat that you snag.
> Here is two picks of Lower Term. Rio took the
> picks.
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allan Alexander" <ajalex15@c...>
> To: "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
> <nasser88@c...>;
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:50 AM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> Reminder
>
>
> > Thanks for all of the input guys... Is there a way
> to go out there and
> > watch... Are they long trails...
> >
> > Allan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:31 AM
> > To: 'Nasser'; 'allanalxndr';
> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1,
> > 2002 - Reminder
> >
> > I agree with Nasser on this. There is nothing
> wrong with starting on
> > something just a bit easier and working one's way
> up to the more
> > challenging trails. Put another way, I would not
> take a friend of mine
> > that was new to Jeepin' on the Terminators.
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:42 PM
> > To: allanalxndr; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: jay@t...
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1,
> > 2002 - Reminder
> >
> > Allan,
> >
> > I do not recommend the Terminators or the Predator
> to a beginner with a
> > Jeep
> > with open differentials. You will wind up
> stacking rocks (which is OK
> > as
> > long as you remove them) or getting strapped or
> worse, break something.
> > Simply it will not be any fun for you and others.
> >
> > I suggest upper woodpecker as rock crawling 101
> were you can pick and
> > choose
> > the obstacles, and try your limits and that of
> your vehicle's. Or try
> > Trail
> > 42. Let me know if you are interested, I'll set
> up a trail run.
> >
> > Nasser
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:51 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > Reminder
> >
> > Ok, I will look into it, Not sure what I have
> going on... Can I get
> > some directions also
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Allan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
64013 From: bermboy2000 <bermboy@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:03pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
Well, you got one right, it was flexy when he almost rolled in the z-
turn, and me on the terminator.
Scott Maiden
--- In az_vjc@y..., jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...> wrote:
> Rick I didnt see the pics they mut have been Flexy and
> Jim F huh.
> Jim L
> --- Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
> > I wouldnt be too scared of those two pics. Neither
> > of those guys know how to
> > wheel anyway ;)
> >
> > Rick
> > XTRM XJ
> >
> >
> > It's a joke, people :)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert McNeeley
> > [mailto:fatbob309@e...]
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 8:06 AM
> > To: 'Stu Olson'; 'Nasser'; az_vjc@y...;
> > Allan Alexander
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > 2002 - Reminder
> >
> >
> > I was out there (lower Term) for a clean up (rock
> > unstacking) and I walked
> > most of it. Most of the time people will have an
> > open seat that you snag.
> > Here is two picks of Lower Term. Rio took the
> > picks.
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Allan Alexander" <ajalex15@c...>
> > To: "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
> > <nasser88@c...>;
> > <az_vjc@y...>
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:50 AM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > Reminder
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for all of the input guys... Is there a way
> > to go out there and
> > > watch... Are they long trails...
> > >
> > > Allan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:31 AM
> > > To: 'Nasser'; 'allanalxndr';
> > az_vjc@y...
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > > I agree with Nasser on this. There is nothing
> > wrong with starting on
> > > something just a bit easier and working one's way
> > up to the more
> > > challenging trails. Put another way, I would not
> > take a friend of mine
> > > that was new to Jeepin' on the Terminators.
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:42 PM
> > > To: allanalxndr; az_vjc@y...
> > > Cc: jay@t...
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > > Allan,
> > >
> > > I do not recommend the Terminators or the Predator
> > to a beginner with a
> > > Jeep
> > > with open differentials. You will wind up
> > stacking rocks (which is OK
> > > as
> > > long as you remove them) or getting strapped or
> > worse, break something.
> > > Simply it will not be any fun for you and others.
> > >
> > > I suggest upper woodpecker as rock crawling 101
> > were you can pick and
> > > choose
> > > the obstacles, and try your limits and that of
> > your vehicle's. Or try
> > > Trail
> > > 42. Let me know if you are interested, I'll set
> > up a trail run.
> > >
> > > Nasser
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:51 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > > Reminder
> > >
> > > Ok, I will look into it, Not sure what I have
> > going on... Can I get
> > > some directions also
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Allan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
64014 From: Robert McNeeley <fatbob309@e...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
It was Scott and Flexy.... The one was just after Flexy nearly rolled it at
the z turn.
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimmy lambertus" <jeepnazus@y...>
To: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>; "Robert McNeeley"
<fatbob309@e...>; "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
<nasser88@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Allan Alexander"
<ajalex15@c...>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:01 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
Reminder
> Rick I didnt see the pics they mut have been Flexy and
> Jim F huh.
> Jim L
> --- Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
> > I wouldnt be too scared of those two pics. Neither
> > of those guys know how to
> > wheel anyway ;)
> >
> > Rick
> > XTRM XJ
> >
> >
> > It's a joke, people :)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert McNeeley
> > [mailto:fatbob309@e...]
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 8:06 AM
> > To: 'Stu Olson'; 'Nasser'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > Allan Alexander
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > 2002 - Reminder
> >
> >
> > I was out there (lower Term) for a clean up (rock
> > unstacking) and I walked
> > most of it. Most of the time people will have an
> > open seat that you snag.
> > Here is two picks of Lower Term. Rio took the
> > picks.
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Allan Alexander" <ajalex15@c...>
> > To: "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
> > <nasser88@c...>;
> > <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:50 AM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > Reminder
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for all of the input guys... Is there a way
> > to go out there and
> > > watch... Are they long trails...
> > >
> > > Allan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:31 AM
> > > To: 'Nasser'; 'allanalxndr';
> > az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > > I agree with Nasser on this. There is nothing
> > wrong with starting on
> > > something just a bit easier and working one's way
> > up to the more
> > > challenging trails. Put another way, I would not
> > take a friend of mine
> > > that was new to Jeepin' on the Terminators.
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:42 PM
> > > To: allanalxndr; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Cc: jay@t...
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > > Allan,
> > >
> > > I do not recommend the Terminators or the Predator
> > to a beginner with a
> > > Jeep
> > > with open differentials. You will wind up
> > stacking rocks (which is OK
> > > as
> > > long as you remove them) or getting strapped or
> > worse, break something.
> > > Simply it will not be any fun for you and others.
> > >
> > > I suggest upper woodpecker as rock crawling 101
> > were you can pick and
> > > choose
> > > the obstacles, and try your limits and that of
> > your vehicle's. Or try
> > > Trail
> > > 42. Let me know if you are interested, I'll set
> > up a trail run.
> > >
> > > Nasser
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:51 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > > Reminder
> > >
> > > Ok, I will look into it, Not sure what I have
> > going on... Can I get
> > > some directions also
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Allan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
64015 From: jeepindog <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:29pm
Subject: Re: Trail Ethics
Sandee,
In regards to your questions below, I think that if you turn to
shows like "Jenny Jones", "Jerry Springer", and most tv programs in
general, you will find your answer. The people who will not respect
these gates or obstructions are the ones who do not belong to any 4x4
clubs. (Hint: their necks are quite rosy in hue!)
Lachlan
<snip>Is there that much "lack of honor" out there? Is our problem
a "blatant disrespect of our lands and resources" or is simply "being
thoughtless" or "uneducated"??
>
> Sandee
64016 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:31pm
Subject: RE: "Tag... your it!!!!"
If that was the Jeep on Greenway the poor guy works at Discount and his Jeep is not running yet:) He also only lives about 4 houses from me so I will have to keep the garage closed for a while:) Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Holmes [mailto:rjholmes@dustrunner.com]
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:34 AM
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] "Tag... your it!!!!"
was the the Yellow YJ on Greenway that sits on the left side of the street?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
64017 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:49pm
Subject: RE: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
Well Jim you were half right Flexy and Scott M. I knew Rick would not post
his comment if I was in it:)
Allen we walked and watched on 90% of the trails we now run before we ran
them. I think that is a good policy to stick to. Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
64018 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:02pm
Subject: [TR] Unspecified - Saturday, August 24, 2002
Hello All,
Gary Oglesby is leading an Unspecified trail run on Saturday, August 24, 2002.
When: 10 am - or any other time is fine...
Where: Meet in Ajo @ Dairy Queen on Highway 85
Rating: None
Length: 3-5 hours
CB Channel: 4
Riding around the backroads, in and out of 4 wheel drive. Just wanting to get out of town go to some favorite spots. Nothing very tough, trail rating 2.5 to 3max. Probably won't hit much of the washes with the temps so high (I overheat to easily.)
I will be there all weekend (leaving phx @ 4:30pm) so will also be hitting the trails at night (much cooler.) Friday and Saturday night.
Ajo is about 1 hour 45 minutes from down town phoenix.
If you want to go other than the time listed just call me. I won't have my computer but will have my cell phone so call if you can make it at the time listed or any other.
(623) 694-9510
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
64019 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:08pm
Subject: RE: Trail Ethics
Sandee as many people that this club reaches and educates there are a lot
more that have no clue. We as responsible 4 wheelers can only educate those
we touch. We all do that including the ASA and associated clubs. Please do
not (not intended to you Sandee) Characterize our sport by the lowest common
denominator. If we did that to the anti-recreationist they would all be in
line with the Unabomber. Keep up the fight we reach more and more all the
time. Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
64020 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:20pm
Subject: [FS] NP231 Transfer Case
Price: Best Offer
Contact: Theon Wier
NP231 transfer case from a 1997 Jeep Cherokee, never used off road, fluids changed every 15,000 miles, Jeep has 97000 highway miles on it, no leaks. Bought a new family van, now I can build my project Jeep, Replacing it with Atlas II. Wanting to sell badly. Will consider any reasonable offer.
Have other parts from 1990 Jeep as well, and the springs from this 1997.
Theon Wier
64021 From: <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:31am
Subject: Re: Aluminum Alloy Tie Rods-calling BS.
Well concidering the fact you can see on my sway bar bracket where the tie
rod was pushed into it and the diff cover and its only happened to one Jeep
one time ...I dont see how you come up with the BS factor. Im sure someone
else would have managed to have done it by now dont you think. Also the fact
that my Jeep was being strapped at the time and you had the force of both
vehicles slamming it into the rock Id say also played a big part. Everyone
has their own likes and dislikes...I happen to love the Alumi-Flex tie rod
and is why I went with the complete system in the larger diameter...the point
is not whether it works or not (we all know that it works), but wheether it
is safe or not and I have not seen any evidence to prove to me it isnt.
Sharky
64022 From: Mike Beach <mikebeach2002@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:39pm
Subject: Car show tonight? (35th Ave and Northern)
Is anyone going to the car show on 35th ave and Northern tonight? Im thinking about going out there around 6:30-7. Hope to see some jeepers out there. Shoot me an e-mail or call me if you want
Mike Beach
602-405-4606
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
64023 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:48pm
Subject: Re: Car show tonight? (35th Ave and Northern)
Mike:
I'll meet you out there with the Camo Cow. 6:30-7:00 seems good.
Gary Holmes
Mike Beach wrote:
Is anyone going to the car show on 35th ave and Northern tonight? Im thinking about going out there around 6:30-7. Hope to see some jeepers out there. Shoot me an e-mail or call me if you want
Mike Beach
602-405-4606
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
64024 From: jimmy lambertus <jeepnazus@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area - Sunday, September 1, 2002 - Reminder
Who was behind Flexy? Must have looked pretty cool
huh.
Jim L
--- Robert McNeeley <fatbob309@e...> wrote:
> It was Scott and Flexy.... The one was just after
> Flexy nearly rolled it at
> the z turn.
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jimmy lambertus" <jeepnazus@y...>
> To: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>; "Robert
> McNeeley"
> <fatbob309@e...>; "'Stu Olson'"
> <solson8@q...>; "'Nasser'"
> <nasser88@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Allan
> Alexander"
> <ajalex15@c...>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> Reminder
>
>
> > Rick I didnt see the pics they mut have been Flexy
> and
> > Jim F huh.
> > Jim L
> > --- Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
> > > I wouldnt be too scared of those two pics.
> Neither
> > > of those guys know how to
> > > wheel anyway ;)
> > >
> > > Rick
> > > XTRM XJ
> > >
> > >
> > > It's a joke, people :)
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Robert McNeeley
> > > [mailto:fatbob309@e...]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 8:06 AM
> > > To: 'Stu Olson'; 'Nasser';
> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > Allan Alexander
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > > Sunday, September 1,
> > > 2002 - Reminder
> > >
> > >
> > > I was out there (lower Term) for a clean up
> (rock
> > > unstacking) and I walked
> > > most of it. Most of the time people will have an
> > > open seat that you snag.
> > > Here is two picks of Lower Term. Rio took the
> > > picks.
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Allan Alexander" <ajalex15@c...>
> > > To: "'Stu Olson'" <solson8@q...>;
> "'Nasser'"
> > > <nasser88@c...>;
> > > <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:50 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > > Reminder
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks for all of the input guys... Is there a
> way
> > > to go out there and
> > > > watch... Are they long trails...
> > > >
> > > > Allan
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:31 AM
> > > > To: 'Nasser'; 'allanalxndr';
> > > az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area
> -
> > > Sunday, September 1,
> > > > 2002 - Reminder
> > > >
> > > > I agree with Nasser on this. There is nothing
> > > wrong with starting on
> > > > something just a bit easier and working one's
> way
> > > up to the more
> > > > challenging trails. Put another way, I would
> not
> > > take a friend of mine
> > > > that was new to Jeepin' on the Terminators.
> > > >
> > > > Stu Olson
> > > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:42 PM
> > > > To: allanalxndr; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Cc: jay@t...
> > > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area
> -
> > > Sunday, September 1,
> > > > 2002 - Reminder
> > > >
> > > > Allan,
> > > >
> > > > I do not recommend the Terminators or the
> Predator
> > > to a beginner with a
> > > > Jeep
> > > > with open differentials. You will wind up
> > > stacking rocks (which is OK
> > > > as
> > > > long as you remove them) or getting strapped
> or
> > > worse, break something.
> > > > Simply it will not be any fun for you and
> others.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest upper woodpecker as rock crawling
> 101
> > > were you can pick and
> > > > choose
> > > > the obstacles, and try your limits and that of
> > > your vehicle's. Or try
> > > > Trail
> > > > 42. Let me know if you are interested, I'll
> set
> > > up a trail run.
> > > >
> > > > Nasser
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:51 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Table Mesa Area -
> > > Sunday, September 1, 2002 -
> > > > Reminder
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I will look into it, Not sure what I have
> > > going on... Can I get
> > > > some directions also
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Allan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> > http://finance.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
64025 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:16pm
Subject: [FS] TRADE D30 Locked D35 Open 410 R&P
Price: TRAK++
Contact: squarelights@aol.com
Nick Lara
64026 From: blt4rox <blt4rox@e...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:16pm
Subject: Aluminum Alloy -BS reply
Sharky,
Agreed. There hasn't been any evidence to either prove nor disprove
that aluminum steering is safe over the long haul. Time will tell.
I never said that it was unsafe, merely that I did not know one way
or the other.
As for calling BS, that same thing would have happened to any Jeep
with the alumiflex steering in that situation. You stated it was a 1
in a million thing. If we took another Jeep with the same steering,
placed it in the same spot, did the same thing, the result would be
the same. I called BS in a joking manner about that particular
instance. What's at issue is whether or not a steel tie rod would've
broken in the same situation. The answer is a resounding NO. It
probably would have bent or snapped a tie rod end, but it wouldn't
have fractured the tubing. The difference is, a snapped tie rod end
could've been changed or the tie rod itself straightened. The same
can't be said for aluminum.
Take care,
Sean
PS. For some reason this site isn't allowing me to reply to any
emails. Sorry for the new post.
64027 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:21pm
Subject: [FS] Trade D30 Locked D35 Open 410 R&P
Price: Trade
Contact: squarelights@aol.com
Its from a 93 YJ SOA or SUA, Spare d35 axle shafts. 410 R&P.; I want to trade for bigger axles. Thanks
Nick L.
Nick Lara
64028 From: jeepdaddy56 <jeepdaddy56@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:34pm
Subject: Re: [FS] SWAP MEET?
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
> I actually was talking about it before the CK run and I'm just
looking for a location in the metrocenter area. I was going to work
on on it this weekend
64029 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:53pm
Subject: RE: Jawbreaker
Fellow Recreationists.............
Below............... go to bottom and scroll up, are the communications
between Brad Jones and myself. He requested I forward copy of his letter to
the Tucson BLM office to all of you. I am doing that.
Again, I do not agree Brad should be communicating as the voice of the
ASA4WDC if the members/delegates/board do not back him in this issue. He
certainly has the right to "not agree with me" but he does not have the
right to speak for the ASA4WDC without support from it's
members.............. are the clubs/members supporting Brads actions or
decisions? Within the ASA4WDC organizations neither the President or the
Executive Board have a "vote". ONLY the club delegates (2 per club)have a
vote. Has he polled anyone from the OHV community?? He is not approaching
the BLM office as a "representative of the OHV community" or "his personal
opinion"....... he's "representing ASA4WDC" an organization of 25 clubs and
approx 800 members. His attitude in his letter below is much more open than
it was following the ASA4WDC delegate meeting this past weekend and he now
reflects a combination of mitigating measures. We cannot "educate" if we
don't ALL agree. I need to believe "most" of the inconsiderate
recreationists WILL wake up and see the light........ I know there will
always be some that will not "follow the rules nor care" ........... as
responsible recreationists WE need to report those that are not being
respectful. A few LARGE dollar citations may turn numbers around. It made
a difference with the use of the State Land Permit. Who
knows?...............
Due to the mishandling of several issues regarding the Jamboree Brad needed
to step in and resolve these problems relating to Jamboree or there would
not have been a permit granted this year. Many of the issues that arose
from the approval/denial of the Jamboree permit are going to be ongoing
issues throughout the entire recreational community and I am, for one,
thankful Brad was able to get these issue straightened out for Jamboree.
The requirements Brad has set forth regarding the Jamboree are EXACTLY the
guidelines that have been enforced every year within Jamboree..... Other
than asking paying participants to "help restore" the Jawbreaker trail, each
and every requirement is the same as past years. The "impact" on this trail
comes from use outside Jamboree. These are the recreationists we need to
"educate"............ Possible?, I don't know, but I sure want to try.
I have received a large number of responses to my original letter and 99%
support "using an obstacle and signs before a gate".............. a few
felt both may be needed but liked the idea of an obstacle first. I had one
response where they felt a gate was probably best although they didn't feel
it would work.
An obstacle with interpretive signs may not be the answer but it's my
opinion, as well as numerous other agency offices, that this is a working
solution. It has been tried and proven.
Please forward this information to your 4x4 lists and keep in touch re your
thoughts or opinions.............. we need to join together. We are
looking at closures and limited access to many of our trails......... we
must join together and ALL work towards mitigating actions that benefit
everyone.
THANKS to all of you that DO CARE!!!.......... Sandee
#3
Brad,
Thank you for responding to this issue but the bottom line is I'm not
convinced an obstacle with signing will not reduce the impact enough that an
"ugly" gate is needed. I would hope we would give the recreationists the
option to "abide by the rules / Tread Lightly BEFORE we put up gates that
seem to openly "dare" some recreationists to find a way around.
I will forward your letter to my mailing list but your letter does not solve
the problem. I feel you need to consult with your
clubs/delegates/members/recreationists before stepping in as the "voice" for
ASA4WDC without the direction/agreement from the members on issues outside
the problem with Jamboree. When I presented my proposal it was done as a
result of actual "working cases". I was not "representing or speaking for
anyone other than proposing a mitigation that has been used and is very
successful.
Sandee
>
>#2
> Sandee;
> Attached is the letter I wrote to the Tucson BLM office to document our
> discussions during several meetings. It is essentially what we
> discussed at
> the Quarterly meeting in Happy Jack. After your comments about
> the entrance
> obstacles, I now feel that a combination of technical and administrative
> measures are needed to reach an agreement on the continued use of the
> Jawbreaker Trail.
> Please distribute this attachment to your mailing list.
> BCNU,
> Brad
Arizona State Association of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs
P. O. Box 23904
Tempe, Arizona 85285
Ms. Linda Marianito
Mr. Francisco Mendoza
Bureau of Land Management
12661 East Broadway Road
Tucson, Arizona 85748-7208
Dear Linda and Francisco;
Thank you for taking the time and providing transportation to review the
Jawbreaker Trail yesterday. It was time well spent to evaluate the impacts
of vehicle use and for me to understand some of the topography and history
of roadways in the Lower Martinez Canyon.
We agree that the trail needs to be restored and long term actions need to
be taken to avoid further negative impacts of Off Highway Vehicle use of
the route in the canyon.
As a part of the Jamboree permit for 2002, the ASA4WDC would agree;
a. To restore the trail by removing and relocating rocks that have been
placed to reduce obstacle difficulty.
b. To restrict all Jamboree vehicles to those that are capable of using the
trail with no ‘rock-stacking’. (Lockers and lifts will be required and
enforced by technical inspection.)
c. The trail will be clearly identified to ensure vehicles use the least
intrusive ‘line’.
d. The past year permit restrictions (15 vehicles per trip, one trip per
day, etc.) would also be in effect for this 2002 permit. (We plan to request
trail participants to help with the trail restoration.)
In addition to these Jamboree specific actions, we would also set a
requirement that the ASA4WDC and BLM will jointly develop a long term
control system that would achieve an equilibrium of recreational use and
resource protection for this beautiful canyon. We agree it is a unique
riparian area in this desert region that must be protected to conserve the
natural resources while ensuring recreational opportunities for the future.
The resource protection provisions may include (but not be limited to);
1. Technical obstacles at the entrances to ‘filter’ vehicles to ensure
capability so ‘rock-stacking’ would not be needed.
2. Signs that explain the sensitive nature of the area and the controls to
ensure conservation and continued vehicle access.
3. Gating or other control mechanisms that could be used to limit traffic.
4. Development of a day-use permit system that would limit the number of
vehicles accessing the trail, with provisions for seasonal or climatic
variations in the number of permits.
We also agreed that the other two alternatives (do nothing or complete
closure) were extreme and unacceptable to both the ASA4WDC and BLM.
Thanks again for your help and consideration of our permit application,
Brad Jones
President
ASA4WDC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> To: <mccullen@c...>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:04 AM
> Subject: Jawbreaker
>
>#1
> > Fellow 4-wheelers.......
> >
> > I'm writing because I need your help...... or at least your opinion on
> this
> > issue.
> >
> > I'm sure most, if not all, of you know the touchy situation Jawbreaker
> Trail
> > has been in over the past couple of years. The Tucson BLM would like
> > nothing better than to close this trail to OHV........ PERIOD. This
> trail
> > has been used for many years but was opened to the ASA4WDC
> Jamboree trail
> > lineup a couple of years ago. Because of this, the exposure
> has been such
> > that the impact from vehicles not truly capable of traversing this trail
> > without doing damage, making by-passes, or stacking rocks has
> brought the
> > impact to this canyon/trail to a serious issue. Several biologists and
> > numerous land specialists have viewed this trail over the past couple of
> > years and the bottom line decision is: "Riparian, functioning but at
> risk".
> > This means simply that any more impact will CLOSE this trail to us.
> >
> > On to my main issue............. I have been trying to encourage the
> Tucson
> > BLM office to "build an obstacle as tough or tougher than the main
> obstacle
> > within the trail" with signing explaining the issues. The mitigating
> > actions of "building an obstacle" to limit the vehicle access has been
> used
> > across the country with huge success. The reason for this
> action in lieu
> of
> > simply "gating" the trail is this. A gate simply gives "actual numbers"
> > where the agency can know the exact numbers of vehicles in and
> out whereas
> > an "obstacle" would limit the vehicles that are doing the
> impact. A gate
> > would not limit the vehicles that are causing the impact. It would not
> stop
> > those vehicles that should not be on a 3.5++ rated trail. An obstacle
> > would.
> >
> > My reasoning is I believe most recreationists would honor an
> obstacle with
> a
> > sign indicating the reason in limiting the impact to this trail. If the
> > "responsibility" of this trail is put to the recreationist (US) the
> > "ownership" / "stewardship" is on the shoulders of the recreationist
> > where..... hopefully........ honor and respect begins to
> build. It may
> > well be that down the line we may have to gate this trail as well due to
> > seasonal closures that might be needed but I still feel (or hope) my
> fellow
> > recreationist would honor a sign asking them to respect or stay
> out for a
> > specific time.
> >
> > My problem is that I had a committment from the Tucson office
> to build the
> > obstacles and place signs at Jawbreaker and Martinez in lieu of
> > closing........... I have now found out that Brad Jones, ASA4WDC
> President,
> > has openly "vetoed" my plans and says "he will personally work with the
> > Tucson office to find another solution other than building an obstacle".
> > His alternative plan is to "build a gate". His reason is: He "feels he
> has
> > a right to traverse and see this canyon as much as anyone else". I
> > disagree............ he has a right IF his vehicle is equipped
> to do so.
> > Francisco Mendoza has told me he has "put the <my> plans on hold for now
> as
> > he wants to review Brads plans more because he feels Brad represents the
> > ASA4WDC". Meaning he has a larger supporting group than I. Is Brad
> > "speaking" for the ASA4WDC? What about those of you not affiliated with
> the
> > ASA4WDC?
> >
> > I would appreciate your input or the decisions/thoughts of your clubs on
> > this issue. If the thoughts of the greater portion of the OHV community
> > would rather see a gate in lieu of an obstacle please let me know your
> vote.
> > Something HAS to be done or they will simply close this, and
> other trails,
> > to ALL OHV use. Trails are rated for this very
> reason.............. some
> > trails simply need lockers or special equipment to traverse
> without doing
> > unnecessary impact to the lands and resources. In replying please note
> > whether your vehicle has lockers or not, and if so.........
> what kind and
> > where.
> >
> > Thanks for your help, Sandee
> >
> >
> >
>
64030 From: RICK BEER <RIKNAZ@M...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:05pm
Subject: Atten. John Rabenius
John please e-mail or call me @ home 480-502-4995
THANKS RICK BEER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
64031 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:18pm
Subject: [FS] WANTED !!! Warn winch & Bead lock wheels.
Price:
Contact: gary mcleer 623-465-0576 or gary@hdesert.com
Am looking for a warn winch at least 8000 lb or more. Will pay cash or trade for a can soda machine. I am a vendor and have many soda machines for sale or trade. I am also looking for bead lock wheels for ford 9" axles. Also need a 35" super swamper w/ wheel for a spare.
64032 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:22pm
Subject: [FS] Tj Hard top for sale 97-02 Dark Tan
Price: $1000.00/obo
Contact: mikeg407@cox.net
Selling the factory dark tan hardtop off my 1999 sahara. It has tinted windows,rear defroster, window wiper/washer. It is in great condition with no cracks or chips that I've seen. It does have a few scrapes and scratches. The inside is white and very clean.I have only had the jeep a few days so they were there when I got it. The top is on eBay if you would like to see a pic of it. The auction goes another 6 days or you can contact me via email with offers. Thanks
Mike Garcia
64033 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:11pm
Subject: Re: Aluminum Alloy Tie Rods-calling BS.
Ok, been out of town, but now I'm back.
On aluminum tie rods, they are cute. If you like em, keep em, I am sorry
they aren't as strong as steel.
Relax, take a deep breath and welcome yourself back to reality.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: <sharxjeep@c...>
To: <blt4rox@e...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Aluminum Alloy Tie Rods-calling BS.
> Well concidering the fact you can see on my sway bar bracket where the tie
> rod was pushed into it and the diff cover and its only happened to one
Jeep
> one time ...I dont see how you come up with the BS factor. Im sure someone
> else would have managed to have done it by now dont you think. Also the
fact
> that my Jeep was being strapped at the time and you had the force of both
> vehicles slamming it into the rock Id say also played a big part. Everyone
> has their own likes and dislikes...I happen to love the Alumi-Flex tie rod
> and is why I went with the complete system in the larger diameter...the
point
> is not whether it works or not (we all know that it works), but wheether
it
> is safe or not and I have not seen any evidence to prove to me it isnt.
>
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
64034 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Aluminum Alloy -BS reply
oops, you forgot somehow to mention you could have welded the steel one and
got off the trail.....
Sincerely, the Aluminum tie rods are super sexy, but if you are really into
rockcrawling, they are not practical.
Just get a bigger steel one if you are bending or breaking yours.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: "blt4rox" <blt4rox@e...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 4:16 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Aluminum Alloy -BS reply
> Sharky,
> Agreed. There hasn't been any evidence to either prove nor disprove
> that aluminum steering is safe over the long haul. Time will tell.
> I never said that it was unsafe, merely that I did not know one way
> or the other.
>
> As for calling BS, that same thing would have happened to any Jeep
> with the alumiflex steering in that situation. You stated it was a 1
> in a million thing. If we took another Jeep with the same steering,
> placed it in the same spot, did the same thing, the result would be
> the same. I called BS in a joking manner about that particular
> instance. What's at issue is whether or not a steel tie rod would've
> broken in the same situation. The answer is a resounding NO. It
> probably would have bent or snapped a tie rod end, but it wouldn't
> have fractured the tubing. The difference is, a snapped tie rod end
> could've been changed or the tie rod itself straightened. The same
> can't be said for aluminum.
>
> Take care,
> Sean
>
> PS. For some reason this site isn't allowing me to reply to any
> emails. Sorry for the new post.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
64035 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:22pm
Subject: [FS] D35
Price: $250
Contact: dzrtoffroad@aol.com
SUA,3.55's,non c-clip,trac lok. in great shape. also have brand new u-bolts- never been used.
steve sample
64036 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:24pm
Subject: [FS] rear seat
Price: $75
Contact: dzrtoffroad@aol;.com
in xlnt cond. black stock,fold-and-tumble. complete with all brackets/hardware and seat belts. no rips/tears/fade.
steve sample