blooddrive
01-05-2004, 10:00 PM
63237-63261
63237 From: Michael Lake <xjcountry93@m...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:36pm
Subject: pistons
OK, I am retarded and can't figure out how to do a search for pistons for my 4.0 block, can some one please help? =-(
Michael!
Green Cherokee'
93 Country 2 door
If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?
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63238 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:39pm
Subject: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Mike. Read the proposed rating system. Thanks for the effort. It really is appreciated.
Personally, I prefer the 1-5 scale, with the use of .5's (such as 4.5). This is really the exact same thing as using a 10 point scale (same number of ratings) but is more in keeping with accepted trail ratings (avoids the Beta Max thing :o) and is just as descriptive. Actually, it allows for enhancement (ie 4.5+) without getting lost in the numbers (what is an 8.5 again???) :o)
My 2 cents.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chatfield
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Ok, so I’m in the process of converting the AzVJC website to ASPX, using C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the current website will continue as is.
New features will be added, and some old things will be revamped. One of the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail Ratings. I’ve come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better classifies the trails we run. So that it isn’t confused with the ASA4WDC rating, it is based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a DRAFT and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the rating systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of trails that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the given trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition of 4.5, and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
Anyway the link to the revised description is:
http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
Thanks,
Mike Chatfield
(Mike@AzChatfield.net)
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63239 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:39pm
Subject: RE: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Sorry Linda the Jamboree is a bad example. Martinez Canyon is rated a 4.5+
while Upper Ajax is rated a 4.5. Martinez may have been a 4.5+ when the luge
was in use it is not a obstacle that really should count any more. Without
that one obstacle it is a no contest on which trail is harder and it is not
the 45+. IMHO
Sandee any rating system is very subjective. United is proposing a system
that uses 1 through 4 to judge a trail from a paved road to Upper
Woodpecker??? Then use 4.0 to 5.0 to judge Upper Woodpecker to Annihilator
(spelling) ???? I would think that most of the system should tell me the
difference between the hard rock runs not 80% of it spent on paved to
graded. JMHO Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: linda luik [mailto:minihummer@w...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:16 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
I have to agree with Sandee. The one thing nice about staying with the
same, consistent rating system is being able to get a general idea of
how tough (or easy) a trail is regardless if the trail is rated by the
AZVJC, the ASA4WDC, or any 4x4 club that is maintaining 4x4 trails or
trail rating for 4x4 events. The simpler the rating system the better,
but the rating system needs to describe terrain characteristics as well
as recommended vehicle modifications. The trail rating used for the
ASA4WDC 4x4 Jamboree is a good example of a 1-5 rating system.
Linda
Sandee McCullen wrote:
>
> OK all....... it's just me, obviously throwing another wrench into the
> pot!!!
> I would really like to see VJC stay with the 1-5 rating scale as other
than
> one 4x4 association and the Official Jeep Jamboree, the 1-5 rating is
being
> used internationally. I just returned from United Four Wheel Drive
> Convention and there was discussion re this exact issue. It looks like
what
> United is planning on doing is what I've been talking about for the past
> couple of years............. break the 4.0 = 4.5 down even further. 4.0,
> 4.1, 4.2, ..... 4.8, 4.9 etc.
>
> Colorado has been using the 1-10 system faithfully for years and even they
> are dropping back to the 1-5. 1-10 actually leaves more questionable
space
> than breaking down the 1-5....... my thoughts....... guess I'm more into
> everyone being "on the same page".
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:39 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> >
> >
> > I concur.
> >
> > Scott Maiden
> > Lil Green YJ
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > > Mike as a Fellow Rockrat we are used to this system. I think with a
> > little
> > > work it can be a lot more accurate then the present system. As
> > harder and
> > > harder trails have been developed the 5.0 system just does not have
> > enough
> > > information available. Jim F.
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Chatfield [mailto:Mike@A...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
> > > To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok, so I'm in the process of converting the AzVJC website to
> > ASPX, using
> > > C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the
> > current
> > > website will continue as is.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > New features will be added, and some old things will be
> > revamped. One of
> > > the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail
> > Ratings. I've
> > > come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better
> > classifies the
> > > trails we run. So that it isn't confused with the ASA4WDC rating,
> > it is
> > > based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a
> > DRAFT
> > > and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the
> > rating
> > > systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of
> > trails
> > > that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the
> > given
> > > trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition
> > of 4.5,
> > > and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway the link to the revised description is:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Chatfield
> > >
> > > (Mike@A...)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
63240 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
If Martinez is rated a 4.5+, that rating should be changed...but I don't see
the need to throw out the rating system. For example, someone could rate CK
a 10 on the proposed system. That doesn't make the system bad, but the
rating would just be wrong and should be corrected.
I'll be sticking to the tried and true 1-5 system, with the descriptive
".5", "+", and "-" additives. It's what ASA uses, it's what all the clubs I
know of use, and it's the closest thing to a National Standard that exists.
Taint broke, IMO.
Doug (doing the 4.5++ trails when the Jeeps not broke :o)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> Sorry Linda the Jamboree is a bad example. Martinez Canyon is rated a 4.5+
> while Upper Ajax is rated a 4.5. Martinez may have been a 4.5+ when the
luge
> was in use it is not a obstacle that really should count any more. Without
> that one obstacle it is a no contest on which trail is harder and it is
not
> the 45+. IMHO
> Sandee any rating system is very subjective. United is proposing a system
> that uses 1 through 4 to judge a trail from a paved road to Upper
> Woodpecker??? Then use 4.0 to 5.0 to judge Upper Woodpecker to Annihilator
> (spelling) ???? I would think that most of the system should tell me the
> difference between the hard rock runs not 80% of it spent on paved to
> graded. JMHO Jim F.
>
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: linda luik [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:16 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
>
>
> I have to agree with Sandee. The one thing nice about staying with the
> same, consistent rating system is being able to get a general idea of
> how tough (or easy) a trail is regardless if the trail is rated by the
> AZVJC, the ASA4WDC, or any 4x4 club that is maintaining 4x4 trails or
> trail rating for 4x4 events. The simpler the rating system the better,
> but the rating system needs to describe terrain characteristics as well
> as recommended vehicle modifications. The trail rating used for the
> ASA4WDC 4x4 Jamboree is a good example of a 1-5 rating system.
>
> Linda
>
> Sandee McCullen wrote:
> >
> > OK all....... it's just me, obviously throwing another wrench into the
> > pot!!!
> > I would really like to see VJC stay with the 1-5 rating scale as other
> than
> > one 4x4 association and the Official Jeep Jamboree, the 1-5 rating is
> being
> > used internationally. I just returned from United Four Wheel Drive
> > Convention and there was discussion re this exact issue. It looks like
> what
> > United is planning on doing is what I've been talking about for the past
> > couple of years............. break the 4.0 = 4.5 down even further.
4.0,
> > 4.1, 4.2, ..... 4.8, 4.9 etc.
> >
> > Colorado has been using the 1-10 system faithfully for years and even
they
> > are dropping back to the 1-5. 1-10 actually leaves more questionable
> space
> > than breaking down the 1-5....... my thoughts....... guess I'm more
into
> > everyone being "on the same page".
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:39 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > >
> > >
> > > I concur.
> > >
> > > Scott Maiden
> > > Lil Green YJ
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > > > Mike as a Fellow Rockrat we are used to this system. I think with a
> > > little
> > > > work it can be a lot more accurate then the present system. As
> > > harder and
> > > > harder trails have been developed the 5.0 system just does not have
> > > enough
> > > > information available. Jim F.
> > > >
> > > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > > member. "Groucho
> > > > Marx"
> > > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mike Chatfield [mailto:Mike@A...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
> > > > To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok, so I'm in the process of converting the AzVJC website to
> > > ASPX, using
> > > > C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the
> > > current
> > > > website will continue as is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > New features will be added, and some old things will be
> > > revamped. One of
> > > > the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail
> > > Ratings. I've
> > > > come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better
> > > classifies the
> > > > trails we run. So that it isn't confused with the ASA4WDC rating,
> > > it is
> > > > based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a
> > > DRAFT
> > > > and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the
> > > rating
> > > > systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of
> > > trails
> > > > that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the
> > > given
> > > > trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition
> > > of 4.5,
> > > > and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway the link to the revised description is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike Chatfield
> > > >
> > > > (Mike@A...)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
63241 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:44pm
Subject: RE: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
This is where the .1, .2, .3..... .6, .7, .8 yada yada comes in. It will be
easier and more precise than 1-10...... maybe that's why everyone other
than Jeep Jamboree is going to 1-5. Why would an "8" be any different than
what..... a 4.0 or a 3.8???? A lot of subjectivity with 1-10 and I think
you'll find people trying to "compare" the two scales and not know what
anything is.
Sandee
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:40 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
>
>
> Sorry Linda the Jamboree is a bad example. Martinez Canyon
> is rated a 4.5+
> while Upper Ajax is rated a 4.5. Martinez may have been a 4.5+
> when the luge
> was in use it is not a obstacle that really should count any more. Without
> that one obstacle it is a no contest on which trail is harder and
> it is not
> the 45+. IMHO
> Sandee any rating system is very subjective. United is
> proposing a system
> that uses 1 through 4 to judge a trail from a paved road to Upper
> Woodpecker??? Then use 4.0 to 5.0 to judge Upper Woodpecker to Annihilator
> (spelling) ???? I would think that most of the system should tell me the
> difference between the hard rock runs not 80% of it spent on paved to
> graded. JMHO Jim F.
>
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: linda luik [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:16 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
>
>
> I have to agree with Sandee. The one thing nice about staying with the
> same, consistent rating system is being able to get a general idea of
> how tough (or easy) a trail is regardless if the trail is rated by the
> AZVJC, the ASA4WDC, or any 4x4 club that is maintaining 4x4 trails or
> trail rating for 4x4 events. The simpler the rating system the better,
> but the rating system needs to describe terrain characteristics as well
> as recommended vehicle modifications. The trail rating used for the
> ASA4WDC 4x4 Jamboree is a good example of a 1-5 rating system.
>
> Linda
>
> Sandee McCullen wrote:
> >
> > OK all....... it's just me, obviously throwing another wrench into the
> > pot!!!
> > I would really like to see VJC stay with the 1-5 rating scale as other
> than
> > one 4x4 association and the Official Jeep Jamboree, the 1-5 rating is
> being
> > used internationally. I just returned from United Four Wheel Drive
> > Convention and there was discussion re this exact issue. It looks like
> what
> > United is planning on doing is what I've been talking about for the past
> > couple of years............. break the 4.0 = 4.5 down even
> further. 4.0,
> > 4.1, 4.2, ..... 4.8, 4.9 etc.
> >
> > Colorado has been using the 1-10 system faithfully for years
> and even they
> > are dropping back to the 1-5. 1-10 actually leaves more questionable
> space
> > than breaking down the 1-5....... my thoughts....... guess
> I'm more into
> > everyone being "on the same page".
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:39 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > >
> > >
> > > I concur.
> > >
> > > Scott Maiden
> > > Lil Green YJ
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > > > Mike as a Fellow Rockrat we are used to this system. I think with a
> > > little
> > > > work it can be a lot more accurate then the present system. As
> > > harder and
> > > > harder trails have been developed the 5.0 system just does not have
> > > enough
> > > > information available. Jim F.
> > > >
> > > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > > member. "Groucho
> > > > Marx"
> > > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mike Chatfield [mailto:Mike@A...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
> > > > To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok, so I'm in the process of converting the AzVJC website to
> > > ASPX, using
> > > > C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the
> > > current
> > > > website will continue as is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > New features will be added, and some old things will be
> > > revamped. One of
> > > > the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail
> > > Ratings. I've
> > > > come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better
> > > classifies the
> > > > trails we run. So that it isn't confused with the ASA4WDC rating,
> > > it is
> > > > based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a
> > > DRAFT
> > > > and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the
> > > rating
> > > > systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of
> > > trails
> > > > that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the
> > > given
> > > > trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition
> > > of 4.5,
> > > > and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway the link to the revised description is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike Chatfield
> > > >
> > > > (Mike@A...)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
63242 From: Michael Lake <xjcountry93@m...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:07pm
Subject: Re: pistons
Thanks for the reply. I am looking for pistons to buy. I would like to find different types and oversized. Doing B & S on new block and shop wont boar it out till I bring in pistons.
----- Original Message -----
From: JEEPER401@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:01 PM
To: xjcountry93@msn.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] pistons
http://www.jeeptech.com/engine/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
63243 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:15pm
Subject: Re: Sing along with me...
I'm telling you Joe, we can make some money. Let me be your manager!
Anthony Celaya
63244 From: <JEEPER401@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:19pm
Subject: Re: pistons
Try Lopers.I did a 258 about 6yrs ago and installed 40 overs.
Steve 76 CJ5
63245 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
I'm bringing my girlfriend. she looks young but she's really 29!
Anthony celaya
63246 From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:31pm
Subject: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Mike,
I weigh 85 kg and am 1.83 meters tall. Am I tall and thin, or short and fat? You'd have to convert to lbs and feet, because you don't have an intuitive feel for height and weight in SI units. The same is true with trail ratings. I grew up with the Moab 1-4+ rating system, and it's just tough to visualize how hard a 7 trail would be. I'd have to pull out my HP calculator and convert units...
Your ratings are great... Just divide them all by two! I realize you chose the 1-10 scale as to not confuse it with ASA4WDC and other similar ratings, but trail ratings are just too subjective anyways...
-darren
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chatfield
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Ok, so I’m in the process of converting the AzVJC website to ASPX, using C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the current website will continue as is.
New features will be added, and some old things will be revamped. One of the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail Ratings. I’ve come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better classifies the trails we run. So that it isn’t confused with the ASA4WDC rating, it is based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a DRAFT and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the rating systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of trails that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the given trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition of 4.5, and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
Anyway the link to the revised description is:
http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
Thanks,
Mike Chatfield
(Mike@AzChatfield.net)
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63247 From: <JEEPER401@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:33pm
Subject: Re: CK run, was RE: pistons
Hey Nasser. I am planning on going.I signed up for the same run you are on.I
am going to take the motorhome and camp out somewhere.Don't know where
yet.See ya there. Steve
63248 From: oveson2 <oveson2@j...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:41pm
Subject: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Mike I think the trail discriptions are great and very informative.
But....these discriptions could just as easily be applied to the 1 to
5 point rating system with a .5 increment. This could result in the
best of both systems.
Lyle Oveson
2000TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Mike Chatfield" <Mike@A...> wrote:
> Ok, so I'm in the process of converting the AzVJC website to ASPX,
using C#.
> The new website will be available in Beta form, while the current
website
> will continue as is.
>
> New features will be added, and some old things will be revamped.
One of
> the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail
Ratings. I've
> come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better
classifies the
> trails we run. So that it isn't confused with the ASA4WDC rating,
it is
> based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a
DRAFT
> and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the
rating
> systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of
trails
> that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the
given
> trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition
of 4.5,
> and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
>
> Anyway the link to the revised description is:
>
> http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chatfield
> (Mike@A...)
63249 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
Sure she's 29........8>(o)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: chaton602@aol.com
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
I'm bringing my girlfriend. she looks young but she's really 29!
Anthony celaya
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63250 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:14pm
Subject: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
I've never liked the 1 ~ 10 trail rating. It's just too darn subjective. I mean what's the difference between, say, a 7.5 and a 7.7 ?? No difference that's really important to me. The 1 ~ 5 with .5 increments and + or - is something that I can relate too much better.
I really don't care if a trail is 7.5 or 7.7. I may care if it's 7.5 or 8.5 (or not)..
Being an engineer, I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) ;)
No use trying to over-engineer something, and I think the 1~10 rating is simply over engineering where it's really not needed.
In the examples below, Predator would probably be a 4.5- and Annihilator a 4.5+.
I understand that rating well. On a 1~10, Predator might be a 8.8 and Annihilator a 9.2 ..... But maybe someone would claim Predator to be an 8.7 or someone else claiming and 8.9.
I can see it now. The bickering would go on for months ;)
Nah, just 4.5- :)
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chatfield
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Ok, so I’m in the process of converting the AzVJC website to ASPX, using C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the current website will continue as is.
New features will be added, and some old things will be revamped. One of the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail Ratings. I’ve come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better classifies the trails we run. So that it isn’t confused with the ASA4WDC rating, it is based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a DRAFT and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the rating systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of trails that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the given trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition of 4.5, and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
Anyway the link to the revised description is:
http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
Thanks,
Mike Chatfield
(Mike@AzChatfield.net)
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63251 From: Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:25pm
Subject: Jeep Recall - Sorry if its a dupe. I just found it.
You all may have seen this before but I just found out. Sorry if its a dupe.
DaimlerChrysler to Recall Jeep® Vehicles with 4.0 Liter Engines
2000-2002 Jeep Wranglers
2000-2001 Jeep Cherokees
1999-2002 Jeep Grand Cherokees
Auburn Hills, Mich., Apr 16, 2002 - As a preventative measure, the Chrysler Group will recall 2000-2002 Jeep Wranglers, 2000-2001 Jeep Cherokees and 1999-2002 Jeep Grand Cherokees with 4.0 Liter engines to reduce the possibility of debris accumulation in the engine compartment that could potentially cause a fire. There have been no accidents or injuries related to this issue.
The Chrysler Group determined a design change made to the engine manifolds modified the underhood airflow, which in rare cases could lead to debris accumulation in the engine compartment. While this situation is uncommon, the Chrysler Group will attach a shield in the manifold area to prevent this from occurring. This affects 182,044 Jeep Wranglers, 293,968 Jeep Cherokees and 639,310 Jeep Grand Cherokees.
If customers have questions, please call the DaimlerChrysler Customer Call Center at 1-800-853-1403.
63252 From: robert mcneeley <rubberside_up309@y...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
Im going to tell her you said that.... better yet I'll just let her see the post when I get to work ;)
Robert
chaton602@aol.com wrote:
I'm bringing my girlfriend. she looks young but she's really 29!
Anthony celaya
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63253 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:15am
Subject: RE: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
Joey is right, his son John is nothing like him. I have no idea where
the boy gets it from, but I think he's going to grow up to be a
respectable young man anyway.
Hehe ;)
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 6:32 PM
To: 'Kyle Hagan'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Kids on the CK run on Saturday
Kyle,
My son will be 6 Sunday and he's nothing like me. So your twins will be
safe on the Turkey Creek Run. ;) Joey K 93YJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kyle Hagan [mailto:Kyle@s...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:07 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Kids on the CK run on Saturday
>
>
> What groups is everyone taking that are bringing the kids. I
> might be bringing my Twin Girls (7yrs) and It might be good
> to go with groups that have kids also. They have been with me
> before on trips in florida and they love it.
>
> Kyle
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>
> To: "zj_lopez" <off-road@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:59 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Kids on the CK run on Saturday
>
>
> > We will be bringing Alyssa(9), Anah(9) and Shawna(3). They
> should have
> lots
> > of fun with the other kids.
> >
> > Rick
> > XTRM XJ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:48 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Kids on the CK run on Saturday
> >
> >
> > Is anyone bringing their kids to this run?. I have mixed emotions
> > about it, mine are good troopers but it seems like a long day for
> > them, yet the memory of seeing about a houndred Jeeps
> wheeling might
> > make it worth their while.
> >
> > If any of you are taking their kids, please let me know so
> I cant ask
> > them (my kids) what they want to do. Thanks.- Jose
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
63254 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:16am
Subject: RE: Sing along with me...
Oh no! Its Joe and the Kum-bya song!
Ooh, it makes me want to hurl.
:D
Scott k
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@synopsys.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:19 PM
To: Azvjc (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc] Sing along with me...
If Ya'll can stop fighting long enough... sing along with me:
(If you do not own a guitar, play your air-guitar)
Joe West
number = left hand finger X = string not played O = play open string thin string chord grid right
Left palm
2
1 | 3
| | | 4
T | | | |
| | | | |
\| | | | G
_ _O_O_ _
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_1_|_|_|_|
2_|_|_|_3_4
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_| C
X_ _ _O_ _O
|_|_|_|_1_|
|_|_2_|_|_|
|_3_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_| D
X_X_O_ _ _
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_1_|_2
|_|_|_|_3_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_| Start
singing:
_ _ _ _ _
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
*_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
[ G ] Kumbya my Lord [ C ] Kumby [ G ] ya
Kumbya my Lord [ C ] Kumby [ D ] ya
Kumby [ G ] ya my Lord [ C ] Kumby [ G ] ya
[ C ] Oh [ G ] Lord [ D ] Kumby [ G ] ya
2. Someone's crying Lord Kumbya... 3. Someone's praying Lord Kumbya...
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63255 From: Jake Wagner <jakewagner@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:22am
Subject: STL Permits
Sandee and I have exchanged a few e-mails and I figured I'd throw this out to the club since a few are complaining about the cost of the permit. A $20 Family Permit breaks down to $0.38 cents a week, and a $15 Individual Permit breaks down to $0.28 Cents a week. If you can't afford it then you shouldn't be driving a Jeep!
On top of this most of my friends and I throw about $800 to $1,000 a year at our TJs, $15/20 is a tank of gas people. I highly recommend that each and everyone in the club has one because I have no sympathy for someone who goes on a run and gets a minimun of a $500 fine. I myself was ignorant and did not know that one was needed, but you bet your butt I went out and purchased one and everyone of my passengers has one . All my regular wheeling friends also have them and we encourage all of you to purchase one.
I don't agree with the permit, but I'd rather pay $15 than $500. I'm already paying taxes, why should I have to pay for a permit to use the land? BLM and the Forest Service do not require one and the money to maintain the roads, etc come out of my paycheck via taxes every week.
See you all on the CK run, can't wait to trail test the body lift and motor mount lift Scott K, Joey K and I put on my TJ tonight.
Jake
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63256 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:31am
Subject: RE: [Tech] 84 CJ-7 - AMC 20 rear and Dana 30 front I6 engine
Ray,
I have had a Detroit Softlocker in my Dana 44 for the last 2.5 years.The Detroit Softlocker is great for a Jeep like mine that was only driven on the streets to get to and from the trails. It was much tamer than the old Detroits. I am now installing a Ford 8.8 later this month and will be installing an ARB this time. The only Detroit available for the 8.8 was the older style. That is why I'm installing an ARB this time. IMO the Detroit Softlocker or ARB are the best two choices you can make. In your case the Detroit is listed at the Tractech website for the AMC 20 as the softlocker variety. You can tell this by the SL in the part number. But an ARB is only about $75 more expensive now that Detroit if you shop around. If you use the following air switch you can avoid using electric switches and solenoids. The main benefit of the ARB is that it remains an open diff on the street until you decide to lock it up.
http://www.gulfcoastrovers.com/all/switch/
I ordered one of these switches yesterday. I've talked to some people that have gone this route and it seems to be a more reliable way to switch the ARB on and off. I'll be sure to post a report once I've got it all installed.
Either way you can't go wrong,
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:32 AM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [Tech] 84 CJ-7 - AMC 20 rear and Dana 30 front I6 engine
I drive my jeep to work sometimes and I want to put lockers in it. What would be a good choice.
Ray Besst
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63257 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:48am
Subject: RE: Daystar body lift and 1" motor mount spacers. was: STL Permits
Right on Jake!
I've probably installed 6 body lifts over the years. I have to say that of all the body lifts I have ever installed the Daystar kit is the biggest pain in the *** I've ever seen. The 2 mounts right behind the front tires didn't fit right. Jake had to grind the hole in the frame so it would drop in. Because it replaces the factory mounts you can't just jack up the body an inch and slip a puck in. You have to jack it up about 2 inches so you can tip the new puck into the hole and then straighten it out. The body tends to slide around more because of this making the bolts harder to get started. We noticed some extra vibes from the poly mounts as well. Otherwise it seemed to be a good complete kit. I'm sure it will last years longer than the stock rubber body mounts.
BTW, I had alot of fun building those 1" motor mount spacers for you. Of course free beer in my refrigerator didn't hurt either :D After doing Chris B's, Joey K's, and yours I think we have it down to an art. If any of you would like a set of spacers built shoot me an e-mail. I'm sure we can work something out.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Jake Wagner [mailto:jakewagner@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:22 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] STL Permits
Sandee and I have exchanged a few e-mails and I figured I'd throw this out to the club since a few are complaining about the cost of the permit. A $20 Family Permit breaks down to $0.38 cents a week, and a $15 Individual Permit breaks down to $0.28 Cents a week. If you can't afford it then you shouldn't be driving a Jeep!
On top of this most of my friends and I throw about $800 to $1,000 a year at our TJs, $15/20 is a tank of gas people. I highly recommend that each and everyone in the club has one because I have no sympathy for someone who goes on a run and gets a minimun of a $500 fine. I myself was ignorant and did not know that one was needed, but you bet your butt I went out and purchased one and everyone of my passengers has one . All my regular wheeling friends also have them and we encourage all of you to purchase one.
I don't agree with the permit, but I'd rather pay $15 than $500. I'm already paying taxes, why should I have to pay for a permit to use the land? BLM and the Forest Service do not require one and the money to maintain the roads, etc come out of my paycheck via taxes every week.
See you all on the CK run, can't wait to trail test the body lift and motor mount lift Scott K, Joey K and I put on my TJ tonight.
Jake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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63258 From: Jesus Chio <jchio@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:55am
Subject: muddin with a rockcrawler rig?
Hello guys,
Im sure that 90% or more of you are rockcrawlers, that said I think it will be a lot of help what you have to say about mud since my Jeep is set for rockcrawling only (almost?) too.
What modifications would you do in order to get your rig mud capable? Say you wanna go to LA and do some mudbogs and hit the local mud trails...
Im going to a ramsey challenge that is supposed to be 98% mud so I wanna get the CJ ready, even if that means regearing or getting a different size of tires.
Im running a 350H0, 4.11s and 38.5Sx, D60s, Atlas II and Sm420. SOA with Rancho 9012s...
Any help will be appreciated!
Jesus Chio
www.alloffroad.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
GOT .COM?
www.offroadhost.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
63259 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:45am
Subject: Re: pistons
Depends on what you are looking for. Summit Racing
(www.summitracing.com) has the 802CP pistons. If you are looking for
actual stroker pistons try www.accuratepower.com.
Michael Lake wrote:
> Any one have a website address for pistons? All my searches are not
> working well. The shop wont boar till I bring in some pistons and I
> have not had any luck finding ANY. Thanks for any help offered.
>
> Michael!
> Green Cherokee'
> 93 Country 2 door
>
> If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it
> considered a hostage situation?
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
63260 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:59am
Subject: RE: Best winch prices
You can get a Ramsey 8000 for under $500.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Norman [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:07 PM
> To: AZ_VJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] Best winch prices
>
> It looks like I will be putting a winch on the front of the XJ (after John
> K makes me a bumper). I like either the Warn 8000 or 9000. Does anyone in
> town offer prices comparable to what I can find online?? I really would
> like to support local business if possible.
>
> Any info will be much appreciated!
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
63261 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:02am
Subject: RE: [Tech] 84 CJ-7 - AMC 20 rear and Dana 30 front I6 en gine
You really need to provide more information then this. What type of trails do you run? How much money do you want to spend? What size tires are you running?
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:32 PM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [Tech] 84 CJ-7 - AMC 20 rear and Dana 30 front I6 engine
I drive my jeep to work sometimes and I want to put lockers in it. What would be a good choice.
Ray Besst
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63237 From: Michael Lake <xjcountry93@m...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:36pm
Subject: pistons
OK, I am retarded and can't figure out how to do a search for pistons for my 4.0 block, can some one please help? =-(
Michael!
Green Cherokee'
93 Country 2 door
If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?
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63238 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:39pm
Subject: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Mike. Read the proposed rating system. Thanks for the effort. It really is appreciated.
Personally, I prefer the 1-5 scale, with the use of .5's (such as 4.5). This is really the exact same thing as using a 10 point scale (same number of ratings) but is more in keeping with accepted trail ratings (avoids the Beta Max thing :o) and is just as descriptive. Actually, it allows for enhancement (ie 4.5+) without getting lost in the numbers (what is an 8.5 again???) :o)
My 2 cents.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chatfield
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Ok, so I’m in the process of converting the AzVJC website to ASPX, using C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the current website will continue as is.
New features will be added, and some old things will be revamped. One of the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail Ratings. I’ve come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better classifies the trails we run. So that it isn’t confused with the ASA4WDC rating, it is based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a DRAFT and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the rating systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of trails that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the given trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition of 4.5, and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
Anyway the link to the revised description is:
http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
Thanks,
Mike Chatfield
(Mike@AzChatfield.net)
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63239 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:39pm
Subject: RE: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Sorry Linda the Jamboree is a bad example. Martinez Canyon is rated a 4.5+
while Upper Ajax is rated a 4.5. Martinez may have been a 4.5+ when the luge
was in use it is not a obstacle that really should count any more. Without
that one obstacle it is a no contest on which trail is harder and it is not
the 45+. IMHO
Sandee any rating system is very subjective. United is proposing a system
that uses 1 through 4 to judge a trail from a paved road to Upper
Woodpecker??? Then use 4.0 to 5.0 to judge Upper Woodpecker to Annihilator
(spelling) ???? I would think that most of the system should tell me the
difference between the hard rock runs not 80% of it spent on paved to
graded. JMHO Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: linda luik [mailto:minihummer@w...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:16 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
I have to agree with Sandee. The one thing nice about staying with the
same, consistent rating system is being able to get a general idea of
how tough (or easy) a trail is regardless if the trail is rated by the
AZVJC, the ASA4WDC, or any 4x4 club that is maintaining 4x4 trails or
trail rating for 4x4 events. The simpler the rating system the better,
but the rating system needs to describe terrain characteristics as well
as recommended vehicle modifications. The trail rating used for the
ASA4WDC 4x4 Jamboree is a good example of a 1-5 rating system.
Linda
Sandee McCullen wrote:
>
> OK all....... it's just me, obviously throwing another wrench into the
> pot!!!
> I would really like to see VJC stay with the 1-5 rating scale as other
than
> one 4x4 association and the Official Jeep Jamboree, the 1-5 rating is
being
> used internationally. I just returned from United Four Wheel Drive
> Convention and there was discussion re this exact issue. It looks like
what
> United is planning on doing is what I've been talking about for the past
> couple of years............. break the 4.0 = 4.5 down even further. 4.0,
> 4.1, 4.2, ..... 4.8, 4.9 etc.
>
> Colorado has been using the 1-10 system faithfully for years and even they
> are dropping back to the 1-5. 1-10 actually leaves more questionable
space
> than breaking down the 1-5....... my thoughts....... guess I'm more into
> everyone being "on the same page".
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:39 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> >
> >
> > I concur.
> >
> > Scott Maiden
> > Lil Green YJ
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > > Mike as a Fellow Rockrat we are used to this system. I think with a
> > little
> > > work it can be a lot more accurate then the present system. As
> > harder and
> > > harder trails have been developed the 5.0 system just does not have
> > enough
> > > information available. Jim F.
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Chatfield [mailto:Mike@A...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
> > > To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok, so I'm in the process of converting the AzVJC website to
> > ASPX, using
> > > C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the
> > current
> > > website will continue as is.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > New features will be added, and some old things will be
> > revamped. One of
> > > the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail
> > Ratings. I've
> > > come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better
> > classifies the
> > > trails we run. So that it isn't confused with the ASA4WDC rating,
> > it is
> > > based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a
> > DRAFT
> > > and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the
> > rating
> > > systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of
> > trails
> > > that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the
> > given
> > > trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition
> > of 4.5,
> > > and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway the link to the revised description is:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Chatfield
> > >
> > > (Mike@A...)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
63240 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
If Martinez is rated a 4.5+, that rating should be changed...but I don't see
the need to throw out the rating system. For example, someone could rate CK
a 10 on the proposed system. That doesn't make the system bad, but the
rating would just be wrong and should be corrected.
I'll be sticking to the tried and true 1-5 system, with the descriptive
".5", "+", and "-" additives. It's what ASA uses, it's what all the clubs I
know of use, and it's the closest thing to a National Standard that exists.
Taint broke, IMO.
Doug (doing the 4.5++ trails when the Jeeps not broke :o)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> Sorry Linda the Jamboree is a bad example. Martinez Canyon is rated a 4.5+
> while Upper Ajax is rated a 4.5. Martinez may have been a 4.5+ when the
luge
> was in use it is not a obstacle that really should count any more. Without
> that one obstacle it is a no contest on which trail is harder and it is
not
> the 45+. IMHO
> Sandee any rating system is very subjective. United is proposing a system
> that uses 1 through 4 to judge a trail from a paved road to Upper
> Woodpecker??? Then use 4.0 to 5.0 to judge Upper Woodpecker to Annihilator
> (spelling) ???? I would think that most of the system should tell me the
> difference between the hard rock runs not 80% of it spent on paved to
> graded. JMHO Jim F.
>
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: linda luik [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:16 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
>
>
> I have to agree with Sandee. The one thing nice about staying with the
> same, consistent rating system is being able to get a general idea of
> how tough (or easy) a trail is regardless if the trail is rated by the
> AZVJC, the ASA4WDC, or any 4x4 club that is maintaining 4x4 trails or
> trail rating for 4x4 events. The simpler the rating system the better,
> but the rating system needs to describe terrain characteristics as well
> as recommended vehicle modifications. The trail rating used for the
> ASA4WDC 4x4 Jamboree is a good example of a 1-5 rating system.
>
> Linda
>
> Sandee McCullen wrote:
> >
> > OK all....... it's just me, obviously throwing another wrench into the
> > pot!!!
> > I would really like to see VJC stay with the 1-5 rating scale as other
> than
> > one 4x4 association and the Official Jeep Jamboree, the 1-5 rating is
> being
> > used internationally. I just returned from United Four Wheel Drive
> > Convention and there was discussion re this exact issue. It looks like
> what
> > United is planning on doing is what I've been talking about for the past
> > couple of years............. break the 4.0 = 4.5 down even further.
4.0,
> > 4.1, 4.2, ..... 4.8, 4.9 etc.
> >
> > Colorado has been using the 1-10 system faithfully for years and even
they
> > are dropping back to the 1-5. 1-10 actually leaves more questionable
> space
> > than breaking down the 1-5....... my thoughts....... guess I'm more
into
> > everyone being "on the same page".
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:39 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > >
> > >
> > > I concur.
> > >
> > > Scott Maiden
> > > Lil Green YJ
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > > > Mike as a Fellow Rockrat we are used to this system. I think with a
> > > little
> > > > work it can be a lot more accurate then the present system. As
> > > harder and
> > > > harder trails have been developed the 5.0 system just does not have
> > > enough
> > > > information available. Jim F.
> > > >
> > > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > > member. "Groucho
> > > > Marx"
> > > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mike Chatfield [mailto:Mike@A...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
> > > > To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok, so I'm in the process of converting the AzVJC website to
> > > ASPX, using
> > > > C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the
> > > current
> > > > website will continue as is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > New features will be added, and some old things will be
> > > revamped. One of
> > > > the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail
> > > Ratings. I've
> > > > come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better
> > > classifies the
> > > > trails we run. So that it isn't confused with the ASA4WDC rating,
> > > it is
> > > > based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a
> > > DRAFT
> > > > and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the
> > > rating
> > > > systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of
> > > trails
> > > > that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the
> > > given
> > > > trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition
> > > of 4.5,
> > > > and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway the link to the revised description is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike Chatfield
> > > >
> > > > (Mike@A...)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
63241 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:44pm
Subject: RE: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
This is where the .1, .2, .3..... .6, .7, .8 yada yada comes in. It will be
easier and more precise than 1-10...... maybe that's why everyone other
than Jeep Jamboree is going to 1-5. Why would an "8" be any different than
what..... a 4.0 or a 3.8???? A lot of subjectivity with 1-10 and I think
you'll find people trying to "compare" the two scales and not know what
anything is.
Sandee
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:40 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
>
>
> Sorry Linda the Jamboree is a bad example. Martinez Canyon
> is rated a 4.5+
> while Upper Ajax is rated a 4.5. Martinez may have been a 4.5+
> when the luge
> was in use it is not a obstacle that really should count any more. Without
> that one obstacle it is a no contest on which trail is harder and
> it is not
> the 45+. IMHO
> Sandee any rating system is very subjective. United is
> proposing a system
> that uses 1 through 4 to judge a trail from a paved road to Upper
> Woodpecker??? Then use 4.0 to 5.0 to judge Upper Woodpecker to Annihilator
> (spelling) ???? I would think that most of the system should tell me the
> difference between the hard rock runs not 80% of it spent on paved to
> graded. JMHO Jim F.
>
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: linda luik [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:16 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
>
>
> I have to agree with Sandee. The one thing nice about staying with the
> same, consistent rating system is being able to get a general idea of
> how tough (or easy) a trail is regardless if the trail is rated by the
> AZVJC, the ASA4WDC, or any 4x4 club that is maintaining 4x4 trails or
> trail rating for 4x4 events. The simpler the rating system the better,
> but the rating system needs to describe terrain characteristics as well
> as recommended vehicle modifications. The trail rating used for the
> ASA4WDC 4x4 Jamboree is a good example of a 1-5 rating system.
>
> Linda
>
> Sandee McCullen wrote:
> >
> > OK all....... it's just me, obviously throwing another wrench into the
> > pot!!!
> > I would really like to see VJC stay with the 1-5 rating scale as other
> than
> > one 4x4 association and the Official Jeep Jamboree, the 1-5 rating is
> being
> > used internationally. I just returned from United Four Wheel Drive
> > Convention and there was discussion re this exact issue. It looks like
> what
> > United is planning on doing is what I've been talking about for the past
> > couple of years............. break the 4.0 = 4.5 down even
> further. 4.0,
> > 4.1, 4.2, ..... 4.8, 4.9 etc.
> >
> > Colorado has been using the 1-10 system faithfully for years
> and even they
> > are dropping back to the 1-5. 1-10 actually leaves more questionable
> space
> > than breaking down the 1-5....... my thoughts....... guess
> I'm more into
> > everyone being "on the same page".
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:39 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > >
> > >
> > > I concur.
> > >
> > > Scott Maiden
> > > Lil Green YJ
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > > > Mike as a Fellow Rockrat we are used to this system. I think with a
> > > little
> > > > work it can be a lot more accurate then the present system. As
> > > harder and
> > > > harder trails have been developed the 5.0 system just does not have
> > > enough
> > > > information available. Jim F.
> > > >
> > > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > > member. "Groucho
> > > > Marx"
> > > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mike Chatfield [mailto:Mike@A...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
> > > > To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok, so I'm in the process of converting the AzVJC website to
> > > ASPX, using
> > > > C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the
> > > current
> > > > website will continue as is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > New features will be added, and some old things will be
> > > revamped. One of
> > > > the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail
> > > Ratings. I've
> > > > come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better
> > > classifies the
> > > > trails we run. So that it isn't confused with the ASA4WDC rating,
> > > it is
> > > > based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a
> > > DRAFT
> > > > and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the
> > > rating
> > > > systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of
> > > trails
> > > > that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the
> > > given
> > > > trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition
> > > of 4.5,
> > > > and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway the link to the revised description is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike Chatfield
> > > >
> > > > (Mike@A...)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
63242 From: Michael Lake <xjcountry93@m...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:07pm
Subject: Re: pistons
Thanks for the reply. I am looking for pistons to buy. I would like to find different types and oversized. Doing B & S on new block and shop wont boar it out till I bring in pistons.
----- Original Message -----
From: JEEPER401@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:01 PM
To: xjcountry93@msn.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] pistons
http://www.jeeptech.com/engine/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
63243 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:15pm
Subject: Re: Sing along with me...
I'm telling you Joe, we can make some money. Let me be your manager!
Anthony Celaya
63244 From: <JEEPER401@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:19pm
Subject: Re: pistons
Try Lopers.I did a 258 about 6yrs ago and installed 40 overs.
Steve 76 CJ5
63245 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
I'm bringing my girlfriend. she looks young but she's really 29!
Anthony celaya
63246 From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:31pm
Subject: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Mike,
I weigh 85 kg and am 1.83 meters tall. Am I tall and thin, or short and fat? You'd have to convert to lbs and feet, because you don't have an intuitive feel for height and weight in SI units. The same is true with trail ratings. I grew up with the Moab 1-4+ rating system, and it's just tough to visualize how hard a 7 trail would be. I'd have to pull out my HP calculator and convert units...
Your ratings are great... Just divide them all by two! I realize you chose the 1-10 scale as to not confuse it with ASA4WDC and other similar ratings, but trail ratings are just too subjective anyways...
-darren
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chatfield
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Ok, so I’m in the process of converting the AzVJC website to ASPX, using C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the current website will continue as is.
New features will be added, and some old things will be revamped. One of the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail Ratings. I’ve come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better classifies the trails we run. So that it isn’t confused with the ASA4WDC rating, it is based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a DRAFT and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the rating systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of trails that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the given trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition of 4.5, and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
Anyway the link to the revised description is:
http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
Thanks,
Mike Chatfield
(Mike@AzChatfield.net)
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63247 From: <JEEPER401@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:33pm
Subject: Re: CK run, was RE: pistons
Hey Nasser. I am planning on going.I signed up for the same run you are on.I
am going to take the motorhome and camp out somewhere.Don't know where
yet.See ya there. Steve
63248 From: oveson2 <oveson2@j...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:41pm
Subject: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Mike I think the trail discriptions are great and very informative.
But....these discriptions could just as easily be applied to the 1 to
5 point rating system with a .5 increment. This could result in the
best of both systems.
Lyle Oveson
2000TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Mike Chatfield" <Mike@A...> wrote:
> Ok, so I'm in the process of converting the AzVJC website to ASPX,
using C#.
> The new website will be available in Beta form, while the current
website
> will continue as is.
>
> New features will be added, and some old things will be revamped.
One of
> the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail
Ratings. I've
> come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better
classifies the
> trails we run. So that it isn't confused with the ASA4WDC rating,
it is
> based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a
DRAFT
> and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the
rating
> systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of
trails
> that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the
given
> trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition
of 4.5,
> and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
>
> Anyway the link to the revised description is:
>
> http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chatfield
> (Mike@A...)
63249 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
Sure she's 29........8>(o)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: chaton602@aol.com
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
I'm bringing my girlfriend. she looks young but she's really 29!
Anthony celaya
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63250 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:14pm
Subject: Re: Website Changes: Trail Ratings
I've never liked the 1 ~ 10 trail rating. It's just too darn subjective. I mean what's the difference between, say, a 7.5 and a 7.7 ?? No difference that's really important to me. The 1 ~ 5 with .5 increments and + or - is something that I can relate too much better.
I really don't care if a trail is 7.5 or 7.7. I may care if it's 7.5 or 8.5 (or not)..
Being an engineer, I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) ;)
No use trying to over-engineer something, and I think the 1~10 rating is simply over engineering where it's really not needed.
In the examples below, Predator would probably be a 4.5- and Annihilator a 4.5+.
I understand that rating well. On a 1~10, Predator might be a 8.8 and Annihilator a 9.2 ..... But maybe someone would claim Predator to be an 8.7 or someone else claiming and 8.9.
I can see it now. The bickering would go on for months ;)
Nah, just 4.5- :)
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chatfield
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Website Changes: Trail Ratings
Ok, so I’m in the process of converting the AzVJC website to ASPX, using C#. The new website will be available in Beta form, while the current website will continue as is.
New features will be added, and some old things will be revamped. One of the things I think we need to take a HARD look at is Trail Ratings. I’ve come up with an Alternate trail rating that I think better classifies the trails we run. So that it isn’t confused with the ASA4WDC rating, it is based on a Ten scale. Take a hard look at it, realize that it is a DRAFT and let me know what you think. Take a HARD look at both of the rating systems, try to think of examples for each trail rating. Think of trails that would define both the lower limit and the upper limit of the given trail rating (For instance Predator may be the minimum definition of 4.5, and Annihilator may define the maximum definition of 4.5).
Anyway the link to the revised description is:
http://www.azvjc.org/trails/altratings.asp
Thanks,
Mike Chatfield
(Mike@AzChatfield.net)
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63251 From: Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:25pm
Subject: Jeep Recall - Sorry if its a dupe. I just found it.
You all may have seen this before but I just found out. Sorry if its a dupe.
DaimlerChrysler to Recall Jeep® Vehicles with 4.0 Liter Engines
2000-2002 Jeep Wranglers
2000-2001 Jeep Cherokees
1999-2002 Jeep Grand Cherokees
Auburn Hills, Mich., Apr 16, 2002 - As a preventative measure, the Chrysler Group will recall 2000-2002 Jeep Wranglers, 2000-2001 Jeep Cherokees and 1999-2002 Jeep Grand Cherokees with 4.0 Liter engines to reduce the possibility of debris accumulation in the engine compartment that could potentially cause a fire. There have been no accidents or injuries related to this issue.
The Chrysler Group determined a design change made to the engine manifolds modified the underhood airflow, which in rare cases could lead to debris accumulation in the engine compartment. While this situation is uncommon, the Chrysler Group will attach a shield in the manifold area to prevent this from occurring. This affects 182,044 Jeep Wranglers, 293,968 Jeep Cherokees and 639,310 Jeep Grand Cherokees.
If customers have questions, please call the DaimlerChrysler Customer Call Center at 1-800-853-1403.
63252 From: robert mcneeley <rubberside_up309@y...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
Im going to tell her you said that.... better yet I'll just let her see the post when I get to work ;)
Robert
chaton602@aol.com wrote:
I'm bringing my girlfriend. she looks young but she's really 29!
Anthony celaya
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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63253 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:15am
Subject: RE: Kids on the CK run on Saturday
Joey is right, his son John is nothing like him. I have no idea where
the boy gets it from, but I think he's going to grow up to be a
respectable young man anyway.
Hehe ;)
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 6:32 PM
To: 'Kyle Hagan'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Kids on the CK run on Saturday
Kyle,
My son will be 6 Sunday and he's nothing like me. So your twins will be
safe on the Turkey Creek Run. ;) Joey K 93YJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kyle Hagan [mailto:Kyle@s...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:07 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Kids on the CK run on Saturday
>
>
> What groups is everyone taking that are bringing the kids. I
> might be bringing my Twin Girls (7yrs) and It might be good
> to go with groups that have kids also. They have been with me
> before on trips in florida and they love it.
>
> Kyle
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>
> To: "zj_lopez" <off-road@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:59 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Kids on the CK run on Saturday
>
>
> > We will be bringing Alyssa(9), Anah(9) and Shawna(3). They
> should have
> lots
> > of fun with the other kids.
> >
> > Rick
> > XTRM XJ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:48 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Kids on the CK run on Saturday
> >
> >
> > Is anyone bringing their kids to this run?. I have mixed emotions
> > about it, mine are good troopers but it seems like a long day for
> > them, yet the memory of seeing about a houndred Jeeps
> wheeling might
> > make it worth their while.
> >
> > If any of you are taking their kids, please let me know so
> I cant ask
> > them (my kids) what they want to do. Thanks.- Jose
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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63254 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:16am
Subject: RE: Sing along with me...
Oh no! Its Joe and the Kum-bya song!
Ooh, it makes me want to hurl.
:D
Scott k
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@synopsys.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:19 PM
To: Azvjc (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc] Sing along with me...
If Ya'll can stop fighting long enough... sing along with me:
(If you do not own a guitar, play your air-guitar)
Joe West
number = left hand finger X = string not played O = play open string thin string chord grid right
Left palm
2
1 | 3
| | | 4
T | | | |
| | | | |
\| | | | G
_ _O_O_ _
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_1_|_|_|_|
2_|_|_|_3_4
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_| C
X_ _ _O_ _O
|_|_|_|_1_|
|_|_2_|_|_|
|_3_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_| D
X_X_O_ _ _
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_1_|_2
|_|_|_|_3_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_| Start
singing:
_ _ _ _ _
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
*_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
[ G ] Kumbya my Lord [ C ] Kumby [ G ] ya
Kumbya my Lord [ C ] Kumby [ D ] ya
Kumby [ G ] ya my Lord [ C ] Kumby [ G ] ya
[ C ] Oh [ G ] Lord [ D ] Kumby [ G ] ya
2. Someone's crying Lord Kumbya... 3. Someone's praying Lord Kumbya...
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63255 From: Jake Wagner <jakewagner@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:22am
Subject: STL Permits
Sandee and I have exchanged a few e-mails and I figured I'd throw this out to the club since a few are complaining about the cost of the permit. A $20 Family Permit breaks down to $0.38 cents a week, and a $15 Individual Permit breaks down to $0.28 Cents a week. If you can't afford it then you shouldn't be driving a Jeep!
On top of this most of my friends and I throw about $800 to $1,000 a year at our TJs, $15/20 is a tank of gas people. I highly recommend that each and everyone in the club has one because I have no sympathy for someone who goes on a run and gets a minimun of a $500 fine. I myself was ignorant and did not know that one was needed, but you bet your butt I went out and purchased one and everyone of my passengers has one . All my regular wheeling friends also have them and we encourage all of you to purchase one.
I don't agree with the permit, but I'd rather pay $15 than $500. I'm already paying taxes, why should I have to pay for a permit to use the land? BLM and the Forest Service do not require one and the money to maintain the roads, etc come out of my paycheck via taxes every week.
See you all on the CK run, can't wait to trail test the body lift and motor mount lift Scott K, Joey K and I put on my TJ tonight.
Jake
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63256 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:31am
Subject: RE: [Tech] 84 CJ-7 - AMC 20 rear and Dana 30 front I6 engine
Ray,
I have had a Detroit Softlocker in my Dana 44 for the last 2.5 years.The Detroit Softlocker is great for a Jeep like mine that was only driven on the streets to get to and from the trails. It was much tamer than the old Detroits. I am now installing a Ford 8.8 later this month and will be installing an ARB this time. The only Detroit available for the 8.8 was the older style. That is why I'm installing an ARB this time. IMO the Detroit Softlocker or ARB are the best two choices you can make. In your case the Detroit is listed at the Tractech website for the AMC 20 as the softlocker variety. You can tell this by the SL in the part number. But an ARB is only about $75 more expensive now that Detroit if you shop around. If you use the following air switch you can avoid using electric switches and solenoids. The main benefit of the ARB is that it remains an open diff on the street until you decide to lock it up.
http://www.gulfcoastrovers.com/all/switch/
I ordered one of these switches yesterday. I've talked to some people that have gone this route and it seems to be a more reliable way to switch the ARB on and off. I'll be sure to post a report once I've got it all installed.
Either way you can't go wrong,
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:32 AM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [Tech] 84 CJ-7 - AMC 20 rear and Dana 30 front I6 engine
I drive my jeep to work sometimes and I want to put lockers in it. What would be a good choice.
Ray Besst
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
63257 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:48am
Subject: RE: Daystar body lift and 1" motor mount spacers. was: STL Permits
Right on Jake!
I've probably installed 6 body lifts over the years. I have to say that of all the body lifts I have ever installed the Daystar kit is the biggest pain in the *** I've ever seen. The 2 mounts right behind the front tires didn't fit right. Jake had to grind the hole in the frame so it would drop in. Because it replaces the factory mounts you can't just jack up the body an inch and slip a puck in. You have to jack it up about 2 inches so you can tip the new puck into the hole and then straighten it out. The body tends to slide around more because of this making the bolts harder to get started. We noticed some extra vibes from the poly mounts as well. Otherwise it seemed to be a good complete kit. I'm sure it will last years longer than the stock rubber body mounts.
BTW, I had alot of fun building those 1" motor mount spacers for you. Of course free beer in my refrigerator didn't hurt either :D After doing Chris B's, Joey K's, and yours I think we have it down to an art. If any of you would like a set of spacers built shoot me an e-mail. I'm sure we can work something out.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Jake Wagner [mailto:jakewagner@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:22 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] STL Permits
Sandee and I have exchanged a few e-mails and I figured I'd throw this out to the club since a few are complaining about the cost of the permit. A $20 Family Permit breaks down to $0.38 cents a week, and a $15 Individual Permit breaks down to $0.28 Cents a week. If you can't afford it then you shouldn't be driving a Jeep!
On top of this most of my friends and I throw about $800 to $1,000 a year at our TJs, $15/20 is a tank of gas people. I highly recommend that each and everyone in the club has one because I have no sympathy for someone who goes on a run and gets a minimun of a $500 fine. I myself was ignorant and did not know that one was needed, but you bet your butt I went out and purchased one and everyone of my passengers has one . All my regular wheeling friends also have them and we encourage all of you to purchase one.
I don't agree with the permit, but I'd rather pay $15 than $500. I'm already paying taxes, why should I have to pay for a permit to use the land? BLM and the Forest Service do not require one and the money to maintain the roads, etc come out of my paycheck via taxes every week.
See you all on the CK run, can't wait to trail test the body lift and motor mount lift Scott K, Joey K and I put on my TJ tonight.
Jake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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63258 From: Jesus Chio <jchio@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:55am
Subject: muddin with a rockcrawler rig?
Hello guys,
Im sure that 90% or more of you are rockcrawlers, that said I think it will be a lot of help what you have to say about mud since my Jeep is set for rockcrawling only (almost?) too.
What modifications would you do in order to get your rig mud capable? Say you wanna go to LA and do some mudbogs and hit the local mud trails...
Im going to a ramsey challenge that is supposed to be 98% mud so I wanna get the CJ ready, even if that means regearing or getting a different size of tires.
Im running a 350H0, 4.11s and 38.5Sx, D60s, Atlas II and Sm420. SOA with Rancho 9012s...
Any help will be appreciated!
Jesus Chio
www.alloffroad.com
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63259 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:45am
Subject: Re: pistons
Depends on what you are looking for. Summit Racing
(www.summitracing.com) has the 802CP pistons. If you are looking for
actual stroker pistons try www.accuratepower.com.
Michael Lake wrote:
> Any one have a website address for pistons? All my searches are not
> working well. The shop wont boar till I bring in some pistons and I
> have not had any luck finding ANY. Thanks for any help offered.
>
> Michael!
> Green Cherokee'
> 93 Country 2 door
>
> If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it
> considered a hostage situation?
>
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Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
63260 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:59am
Subject: RE: Best winch prices
You can get a Ramsey 8000 for under $500.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Norman [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:07 PM
> To: AZ_VJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] Best winch prices
>
> It looks like I will be putting a winch on the front of the XJ (after John
> K makes me a bumper). I like either the Warn 8000 or 9000. Does anyone in
> town offer prices comparable to what I can find online?? I really would
> like to support local business if possible.
>
> Any info will be much appreciated!
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
63261 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:02am
Subject: RE: [Tech] 84 CJ-7 - AMC 20 rear and Dana 30 front I6 en gine
You really need to provide more information then this. What type of trails do you run? How much money do you want to spend? What size tires are you running?
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:32 PM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [Tech] 84 CJ-7 - AMC 20 rear and Dana 30 front I6 engine
I drive my jeep to work sometimes and I want to put lockers in it. What would be a good choice.
Ray Besst
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.