blooddrive
01-05-2004, 10:33 PM
62561-62585
62561 From: Nick Gasmena <NickG@4...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 4:10pm
Subject: Re: FW: thanks
You should have him attend your class Stu :)
~~~~ Have an EXCEL-ent Day!! ~~~~
Nick Gasmena - nickg@4...
-----------------------
Http://www.excelir.com/greatrates - Your gateway to Financial Freedom!
Home Office: 602-595-7734 Cell: 602-400-8896
-----------------------
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.4x4jeep.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] FW: thanks
> The response concerning my past posting about the geocaching ariticle.
This
> is from the author.
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: christina.leonard@a...
> [mailto:christina.leonard@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:30 PM
> To: Stu Olson
> Subject: thanks
>
>
> I just read your posting, thanks for that. I do want to say that I did try
> and interview other geocachers, but none returned my calls. We have tight
> deadlines for our stories. I went out on the White tanks hike one day, and
> the story was due the next. I would have liked to have gone with others
> (and I think I told you that my husband and I planned to use our GPS
system
> to geochache ourselves as well) ... but I do think I got a pretty good
idea
> of what happens from reading a ton of postings and researching the web
> sites. Just wanted to mention that. THanks again ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
62562 From: <jeepthingtj2000@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 0:15pm
Subject: Re: Vote for Our Webmaster as an Off Road God
well gave you a 10!!!!!! good luck with the new shirt. : )
62563 From: Hogan Whittall <hogan@n...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 4:14pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
On Thursday 08 August 2002 03:26 pm, Chris Krieg wrote:
> Let me clarify.
>
> The only way this could possibly (and I even doubt this) work and not
> become the mess that many other BBSs have become is to have membership 100%
> moderated. Each person signing up would have to prove and be verified by
> someone that they live in AZ (it is one of the rules) and has a Jeep
> (another of the rules). Without these rules, we'd have everybody and their
> brother with every make and model of vehicle from every state and country
> joing the BBS.
Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if those
rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS (I run
one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a Yahoo!
Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing lists with
web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for two
different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a BBS
would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want to chit
chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're looking
for.
Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think you'd want
it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now other
than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership moderated
is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator approval
before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
Just my $0.02.
--
Hogan Whittall
E-Mail: hogan@n...
Pager: pagehogan@n...
62564 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 4:30pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
No flames at all. You also make some good points.
The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
to verify their address validity.
Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
Chris
On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
> those
> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
> (I run
> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
> Yahoo!
> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
> lists with
> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
> two
> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
> BBS
> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
> to chit
> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
> looking
> for.
>
> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
> you'd want
> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
> other
> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
> moderated
> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
> approval
> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> --
> Hogan Whittall
> E-Mail: hogan@n...
> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62565 From: Hogan Whittall <hogan@n...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
On Thursday 08 August 2002 04:30 pm, Chris Krieg wrote:
> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
> system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
> to verify their address validity.
That's exactly what the BBS software I use does. You're more than welcome to
sign up and check it out. Basically, you're asked some basic information and
you don't create a password when you register...you get a password in the
verification email, so you use that password to login and then you can change
it to whatever you want. Registrations can also be moderated and require
approval before the user is active. It's quite flexible and I don't think
there's much to worry about as far as it becoming like the Pirate board,
there really aren't any rules to be a member of the BBS but if you cause too
much trouble you will get banned.
As for trolls, especially repeat ones, most software (mine does) has a way to
control access. For example, I can ban members based on email address, their
email domain, and even the IP address or ISP they use. All the poster info
is logged when they post, such as their IP address, to make tracking easier.
>
> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
Someone could always set it up and have people beta-test it without taking
down or affecting the Yahoo group. If it gets the thumbs up then great, if
not then it was at least worth looking into. :)
Y'all are more than welcome to go play with my board and see how it works.
The best part is the software is free.
--
Hogan Whittall
E-Mail: hogan@n...
Pager: pagehogan@n...
62566 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 5:22pm
Subject: [FS] ATTN: 4cyl TJ owners
Price: $50
Contact: hiett710@yahoo.com 602 882 9895
Trying to sell my stock springs and shocks for my 02 TJ. I hear they make the 4cyl ride much more comfortable. They have less then 3k miles on them and are yours for the low low low price of $50(for all)
Mike H.
Mike Hiett
62567 From: hiett710 <hiett710@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 5:28pm
Subject: ATTN It people!!!
Stop by Maricopa Medical Center Employee parking lot anytime during
work hours. I'll be you can find a victim there :)
Mike H. 02 TJ
62568 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 5:41pm
Subject: Re: CK Anv Run Camping?
We are planning on camping out Saturday night.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "g_rob_williams" <g_rob_williams@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 11:49 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] CK Anv Run Camping?
> Is anyone camping out for the night and heading back down by way of
> Lake Pleasant the next day? I am running up with the morning turkey
> creek crowd and am planning on staying the night, then going back
> down the trail the next morning. I camped out last year and had a
> lot of fun, and wanted to do it again this year. -Rob
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
62569 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:50pm
Subject: CROWN KING LUNCH REMINDER
Just to let you all know that tomorrow I will be on the s/e corner of mill
and university at the chili's parking lot collecting the down payment for the
crown king lunch. Saturday I will be on the s/w corner of Thomas and 75th Ave
behind the olive garden. just a reminder, all you need to come up with is
half of the $5.50 which will be $2.75 per person, the remainder must be paid
to Camille at the switchback restaurant when you receive your lunch. Those
who participated in this collection for the lunch down payment will be on a
list. Camille will have a copy of this lunch list. those who paid the full
amount up front will be on the list with "paid in full" next to it. If you
have any questions feel free to call me @ 602-438-0468. Sunday morning (
8-11-02) I will be delivering the down payment to Camille in crown king. TIA
Anthony Celaya
62570 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 6:06pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Chris, In my Honest opinion, all good points.
The "cool" thing about the VJC in it's current configuration is it tends to
appeal to the people who do the MOST to improve the image of the group.
These people bring positive recognition to the group and to the sport.
Getting just the info you want kind of leaves you like an Ostrich with it's
head in a hole.
This may be an old fashioned view, but I think we have better clout as a
group of people versus "a group of groups".
Owning a Jeep has many facets.
Sometimes, you gotta take the good with the bad.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
To: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
> What about the issues I posted? Trolls, bandwidth, space, member location
> and vehicle verification?
>
> My concern is that we will become (as most popular BBs become when they
get
> too popular) too big and lose our identity. They become a haven for bored
> people that have nothing better to do than spew trash (Yeah, I know, we
have
> David Withers, but he has gone to digest form). Yeah, we could have
> moderators to try to control this, but it is often a losing battle. An
email
> list is harder to troll from (except for David W.) because many can't get
> personal emails at work or it is monitored so they don't even try.
> Look at what we have now. Our classifieds section is already becoming a
> place for non-Jeep owners to post their non-Jeep stuff for sale. They fill
> in just enough info to join to post an ad. Look at this Bruce Bot guy.
I've
> never seen him post or even heard of him and he has several non-Jeep
related
> ads in the General Jeep classifieds. His profile has his name and location
> and email address. That's it. No Jeeps listed at all. Translation. It is a
> free, easy place to throw his ads so he joined just to do that.
> We'd have people from all over posting the "can anyone post pics of a red
> Jeep with blue tires, green wheels, yellow rollbar pads, and a poodle on
the
> hood" threads. Who wants to try to control that?
>
> Even if we had the option to just receive emails from the BB, we'd still
get
> all the crap threads, just in email form instead.
>
> Chris
>
> > From: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:33:37 -0700
> > To: "'DesertJeep'" <joey@d...>, "'David
> > Shields'"<drshieldsut@y...>,
> > "'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'"<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
> >
> > For all of those that said:
> >
> > "NO!"
> >
> > Would you be interested in it, if you still received e-mails and could
> > "reply" to a post via e-mail?
> >
> > The idea is that you could "subscribe" to whichever forums (ie. CJ Tech,
TJ
> > Tech, Trips, General Chit-Chat, etc...)you wanted to. On the subscribed
> > forums, you would receive (if you choose) an e-mail version of each
post.
> > You could then reply to the post, as long as you don't modify the "Key"
in
> > the subject, and it would be posted to the proper forum and thread --
OR --
> > You could choose to reply directly to the sender.
> >
> > You could also start a new post simply by sending an e-mail to the
proper
> > forum. (ie. CJTech@A..., TJTech@A..., Trips@A...,
> > ChitChat@A..., etc...) You wouldn't have to be "Subscribed" to the
> > forum you are posting to either.
> >
> > Additionally, moderators could be assigned to each forum to keep people
"in
> > line."
> >
> > As a bonus, it would also remove any advertisements :)
> >
> > This is something I am working on, I am building it using C# and ASPX
pages
> > -- so it should be pretty fast. It will be some time before it is ready,
but
> > I might have a "Beta" version ready around New Years.
> >
> > - Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Shields [mailto:drshieldsut@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:57 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
> >
> >
> > I know this topic was brought up and polled a few
> > months ago. I think I voted against the change.
> > However, for the past two months I have been using
> > several bulletin boards and have very much enjoyed
> > them. For Example the Pirate's of the Rubicon Board, S.N.O.R.T.'s
> > board, and the JeepForum. I have really come to enjoy them because they
> > give me the freedom to look at the topics that are of the most interest
> > and skip the ones that are uninteresting to me. If you have moderators
> > for the various forums they can monitor their forum and keep OT posts
> > off that forum or send the post to the forum it belongs in.
> >
> > Would there be any interest in reconsidering a change
> > to the bulletin board approach?
> >
> > Just wondering.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> > http://www.hotjobs.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62571 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 2:03pm
Subject: CROWN KING LUNCH REMINDER
OOPS, I forgot to post the times I'll be at these locations. here they are.
Friday-s/e corner of mill and university form 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM
saterday-s/w corner of 75th Ave and Thomas from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
Anthony Celaya
62572 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 6:04pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Thanks Bill. I like what you said. Not old fashioned at all.
Anyone else?
Chris
> From: "Bill Mish" <yldkat55@h...>
> Organization: Wildcat Off Road
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:06:34 -0700
> To: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>, <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>, "Chris
> Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> Chris, In my Honest opinion, all good points.
> The "cool" thing about the VJC in it's current configuration is it tends to
> appeal to the people who do the MOST to improve the image of the group.
> These people bring positive recognition to the group and to the sport.
>
> Getting just the info you want kind of leaves you like an Ostrich with it's
> head in a hole.
> This may be an old fashioned view, but I think we have better clout as a
> group of people versus "a group of groups".
> Owning a Jeep has many facets.
> Sometimes, you gotta take the good with the bad.
>
>
> Bill Mish
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
> To: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
>
>> What about the issues I posted? Trolls, bandwidth, space, member location
>> and vehicle verification?
>>
>> My concern is that we will become (as most popular BBs become when they
> get
>> too popular) too big and lose our identity. They become a haven for bored
>> people that have nothing better to do than spew trash (Yeah, I know, we
> have
>> David Withers, but he has gone to digest form). Yeah, we could have
>> moderators to try to control this, but it is often a losing battle. An
> email
>> list is harder to troll from (except for David W.) because many can't get
>> personal emails at work or it is monitored so they don't even try.
>> Look at what we have now. Our classifieds section is already becoming a
>> place for non-Jeep owners to post their non-Jeep stuff for sale. They fill
>> in just enough info to join to post an ad. Look at this Bruce Bot guy.
> I've
>> never seen him post or even heard of him and he has several non-Jeep
> related
>> ads in the General Jeep classifieds. His profile has his name and location
>> and email address. That's it. No Jeeps listed at all. Translation. It is a
>> free, easy place to throw his ads so he joined just to do that.
>> We'd have people from all over posting the "can anyone post pics of a red
>> Jeep with blue tires, green wheels, yellow rollbar pads, and a poodle on
> the
>> hood" threads. Who wants to try to control that?
>>
>> Even if we had the option to just receive emails from the BB, we'd still
> get
>> all the crap threads, just in email form instead.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>> From: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:33:37 -0700
>>> To: "'DesertJeep'" <joey@d...>, "'David
>>> Shields'"<drshieldsut@y...>,
>>> "'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'"<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>>>
>>> For all of those that said:
>>>
>>> "NO!"
>>>
>>> Would you be interested in it, if you still received e-mails and could
>>> "reply" to a post via e-mail?
>>>
>>> The idea is that you could "subscribe" to whichever forums (ie. CJ Tech,
> TJ
>>> Tech, Trips, General Chit-Chat, etc...)you wanted to. On the subscribed
>>> forums, you would receive (if you choose) an e-mail version of each
> post.
>>> You could then reply to the post, as long as you don't modify the "Key"
> in
>>> the subject, and it would be posted to the proper forum and thread --
> OR --
>>> You could choose to reply directly to the sender.
>>>
>>> You could also start a new post simply by sending an e-mail to the
> proper
>>> forum. (ie. CJTech@A..., TJTech@A..., Trips@A...,
>>> ChitChat@A..., etc...) You wouldn't have to be "Subscribed" to the
>>> forum you are posting to either.
>>>
>>> Additionally, moderators could be assigned to each forum to keep people
> "in
>>> line."
>>>
>>> As a bonus, it would also remove any advertisements :)
>>>
>>> This is something I am working on, I am building it using C# and ASPX
> pages
>>> -- so it should be pretty fast. It will be some time before it is ready,
> but
>>> I might have a "Beta" version ready around New Years.
>>>
>>> - Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Shields [mailto:drshieldsut@y...]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:57 PM
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>>>
>>>
>>> I know this topic was brought up and polled a few
>>> months ago. I think I voted against the change.
>>> However, for the past two months I have been using
>>> several bulletin boards and have very much enjoyed
>>> them. For Example the Pirate's of the Rubicon Board, S.N.O.R.T.'s
>>> board, and the JeepForum. I have really come to enjoy them because they
>>> give me the freedom to look at the topics that are of the most interest
>>> and skip the ones that are uninteresting to me. If you have moderators
>>> for the various forums they can monitor their forum and keep OT posts
>>> off that forum or send the post to the forum it belongs in.
>>>
>>> Would there be any interest in reconsidering a change
>>> to the bulletin board approach?
>>>
>>> Just wondering.
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
>>> http://www.hotjobs.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62573 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Ok, Hogan, not that I would try to force feed someone a Land issue, but I
will use it to illustrate my point.
How many of the people do you think you would reach that were only
interested in modifying their Jeep, and completely oblivious to the need to
protect their sport?
Here, you post to the whole group no matter what.
Sure some wont be interested.
BFD.
Some will get caught up in the "rallying the troops" and go just to check it
out, or write that letter or whatever.
Keeping your finger on the pulse of the Jeeping community is pretty
important.
You get a better feeling for the fellow "Virtual" members of the club with
one group.
BB's lend themselves to cliques, more so than this format.
BB's lend themselves well to giving you just what you want.
One thing to remember, The more you modify something, the more "Special
purpose" it becomes.
I think this rings true for Jeeps and oddly enough, this group.
In the groups case, I don't think "Special Purpose" is going to fit the
majority.
Have a good one!
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hogan Whittall" <hogan@n...>
To: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
> On Thursday 08 August 2002 03:26 pm, Chris Krieg wrote:
> > Let me clarify.
> >
> > The only way this could possibly (and I even doubt this) work and not
> > become the mess that many other BBSs have become is to have membership
100%
> > moderated. Each person signing up would have to prove and be verified by
> > someone that they live in AZ (it is one of the rules) and has a Jeep
> > (another of the rules). Without these rules, we'd have everybody and
their
> > brother with every make and model of vehicle from every state and
country
> > joing the BBS.
>
> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
those
> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS (I
run
> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
Yahoo!
> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing lists
with
> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for two
> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
BBS
> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want to
chit
> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
looking
> for.
>
> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think you'd
want
> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
other
> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
moderated
> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator approval
> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> --
> Hogan Whittall
> E-Mail: hogan@n...
> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62574 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 6:42pm
Subject: RE: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Chris,
I like the list setup as is. Why? Because I can dial up, grab all the
mail I have in my inbox and then go back off-line....read it, delete it,
answer it, etc. Then dial up again and send out my responses.
On-line BBS forums do not allow that. I am not in a position to keep a
connection up and running for extended periods....so getting it via my
mail client is certainly nice.
There are a ton of Jeep related BBS forums. I would just as soon NOT
become one of them, if I have anything to say about it.
OK...there is my reasons.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
No flames at all. You also make some good points.
The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
to verify their address validity.
Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
Chris
On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but
if
> those
> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
> (I run
> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
> Yahoo!
> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
> lists with
> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
> two
> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think
a
> BBS
> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
> to chit
> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too.
No
> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
> looking
> for.
>
> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
> you'd want
> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right
now
> other
> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
> moderated
> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
> approval
> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> --
> Hogan Whittall
> E-Mail: hogan@n...
> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62575 From: jeepindog <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:09pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Ok, I understand how ball bearings (BBs) and Bull**** (BS) apply
to what goes on here at this Yahoo Group, and as far as email goes,
most people are forum, not against 'em. Can anyone tell me how to
please all of the people all of the time, because it seems that we
can't even please some of the people some of the time? LOL! Hope
this was taken lightly, as this entire topic is a light topic.
Lachlan
In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I like the list setup as is. Why? Because I can dial up, grab all
the
> mail I have in my inbox and then go back off-line....read it,
delete it,
> answer it, etc. Then dial up again and send out my responses.
>
> On-line BBS forums do not allow that. I am not in a position to
keep a
> connection up and running for extended periods....so getting it via
my
> mail client is certainly nice.
>
> There are a ton of Jeep related BBS forums. I would just as soon
NOT
> become one of them, if I have anything to say about it.
>
> OK...there is my reasons.
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally
more
> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email
address
> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
> system to send out an email to their email address to have them
respond
> to verify their address validity.
>
> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change?
What do
> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues
be
> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
>
> Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey?
Hackle?
>
> Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
>
> Chris
>
> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
>
> > Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points,
but
> if
> > those
> > rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place
that
> > requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join
a BBS
>
> > (I run
> > one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi)
than a
> > Yahoo!
> > Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from
what
> > they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few
mailing
> > lists with
> > web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really
meant for
>
> > two
> > different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I
think
> a
> > BBS
> > would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You
want
> > to chit
> > chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that,
too.
> No
> > having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that
you're
> > looking
> > for.
> >
> > Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd
think
> > you'd want
> > it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls
right
> now
> > other
> > than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
> > moderated
> > is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
> > approval
> > before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
> >
> > Just my $0.02.
> >
> > --
> > Hogan Whittall
> > E-Mail: hogan@n...
> > Pager: pagehogan@n...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62576 From: rrichards13 <rrichards13@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:21pm
Subject: Re: Crown King Question
Arent we in a
drought??????
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Kyle
Hagan" <Kyle@s...> wrote:
> This will be my 1st ride with the club since I moved to AZ.
>
> What my question is, I Like to ride without my doors, will the trip
takeme
> through and deep water
> that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im running 33's with 2in
spacers
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@y...>; <pats@d...>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for Crown King
>
>
> > Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through Phoenix. You will be
taking
> > State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of Bell Road. Once
you get to
> > SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go right (BTW at this
point
> the
> > Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of the road). You
will
> quickly
> > come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are still on SR74 it
is about
> 8
> > miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off main entry also
called
> > Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now headed north
just follow
> > this road until it turns to a dirt road and make a left you are
there. HTH
> > Jim F
> >
> > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
member. "Groucho
> > Marx"
> > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > http://www.rockrats.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
62577 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:25pm
Subject: RE: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
I hit several BB also and I like them for what they are. Again it may be
just because this is what I am used to but, I feel our group has a lot more
of a community feel to it.
I end up on this group learning a great deal about other types of Jeeps as
in this format I read more of the posts. On the BB I skip over a lot more. I
would also not like the chance we would lose the spread of information on
such issues as Land Use. As in more people might just skip over those. Again
this is not to say I am right. JMHO
I would also think asking Mike if the server could even handle that kind of
format would be a good first step. Why spend time discussing something that
is not possible. Also who wants to be the moderator? I know I don't. Jim F.
aka Hackle
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
No flames at all. You also make some good points.
The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
to verify their address validity.
Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
Chris
On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
> those
> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
> (I run
> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
> Yahoo!
> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
> lists with
> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
> two
> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
> BBS
> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
> to chit
> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
> looking
> for.
>
> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
> you'd want
> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
> other
> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
> moderated
> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
> approval
> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> --
> Hogan Whittall
> E-Mail: hogan@n...
> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62578 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: Parts cross reference
The parts department at Darners found 12 spring P/Ns for the 93 ZJ.
Linda
jetowle2000 wrote:
>
> According to a few sites I looked at, the lift springs are the same
> part numbers. So I am guessing the stock springs are the same part
> number. The search I did considered both to be 4x4's. I would also
> guess that they would need to have the same size engine, but I am not
> sure that this really matters.
>
> --James
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "RAM" <ramaz@c...> wrote:
> > Morning all
> >
> > Does anyone know of a web site that lets you cross reference parts
> and
> > parts numbers? My son broke a coil spring on his 88 XJ, I still
> have
> > the original coils from my 95 XJ but need to know if they will fit.
> > Checked autozone.com and a couple others and they don't list any
> part
> > numbers for coil springs.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > RAM
> >
> > Randall A. Mutter 95XJ, 76 CJ-7
> > ramaz@c...
> >
> > Thank goodness there are no 12 step programs for Jeeping...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62579 From: Steve Meyer <steve.j.meyer@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:47pm
Subject: RE: money to burn on jeep stuff
35's are the compromise for not going to 38" TSL SX's. :-)
--Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:05 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
Steve wrote:
"...After all, Josh wants to have a compromise between road and trail."
I guess I have a hard time thinking of 35"s as a "compromise". IMO, when
you go to 35 and the lifts necessary to clear them, the gears necessary to
run them, the brakes necessary to stop them, and all the other mods that are
interrelated...you are building an off-road machine, not a compromise
machine.
Anyway, I'm curious to hear what he decides.
Gunslinger
Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 22:54
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> Your not going to get any arguments on stability from me. The thing is,
> Josh wants to run 35's and still maintain a comfortable driving
environment.
> You told him that it was not fun... I think it is (if done right). Given
> you can expect to spend more money on gas, there is more wear and tear on
> steering components and knuckle ball joints. But as far as cruising on
the
> freeway at 75mph with 35" tires...no issue. When doing so, it is not a
bad
> idea to compensate with new gears in the pigs and larger brakes
(preferable
> larger axles also). All this said, you can make a suitable daily driver
if
> you spend the cash and do it right. After all, Josh wants to have a
> compromise between road and trail.
>
> --Steve (Just from experience of driving my cadillac riding YJ)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:04 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Lifts (of any type) and taller tires all raise the center-of-gravity. The
> higher the center-of-gravity, without the appropriate increases in track
and
> wheelbase, make a vehicle (any vehicle) less stable.
>
> Also a wider tire, unless designed for wet surfaces (or, for that matter,
> any equal tire), is more likely to aquaplane. Another aspect of less
> stability.
>
> Just as most sports cars setup for track racing, or even rallying, are not
> ideal for highways - the same is true of Jeeps setup to crawl rocks or
play
> in the mud.
>
> Its like weapons. A 9 mm is a good all around defensive sidearm. A .44
is
> till a sidearm but could be sued for some types of hunting. But it starts
> getting very uncomfortable if you had to carry it all day everyday. You
> would much rather carry the nine.
>
> Jeeps are no different. You can modify them all you want. But most of
the
> mods will make the vehicle less suitable for daily driving.
>
> And using the original poster as an example, he's driving about 2.5 times
> the US average. That's a lot of hours to which I would hate to add much
> discomfort.
>
> As I said, JMO, FWIW, YMMV
>
> Gunslinger
>
> Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 20:02
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
>
>
> > I have to disagree with some of this. If done right, 35's and 4.56
gears
> > can be just as comfortable to drive as stock. SOA YJ's (like mine) ride
> > pretty damn nice.
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:47 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> >
> >
> > Josh,
> >
> > Its an interesting conundrum; you really want your Jeep to do
everything.
> > Smooth, comfy, and nice top end on the road; and big boulders as well.
> > Complicated by the fact that you are doing high on-road mileage, by
> > anybody's reckoning - 30K per year.
> >
> > On the Jeep list, which is not as "rock crawling" focused as this list
is,
> I
> > frequently ask folks "what percentage of your driving will be on-road
vs.
> > the percentage off-road?" Oft times it is that folks don't realize the
> more
> > "purpose-built" a vehicle becomes, the less "roadable" it becomes
> > simultaneously.
> >
> > One question would be: "Have you driven a 35" tire, 4"+ lift, 4.56
gears,
> > Detroit locked Jeep on the highway?" Not fun at all.
> >
> > Next question would be: "What have you tried to accomplish (driving)
with
> > your Jeep that you have failed?"
> >
> > Where you don't want to end up is with a Jeep that know longer serves
your
> > primary purpose - daily driver - and doesn't gain you much more on the
> > trails.
> >
> > That said, here is an opinion. My YJ is set up similarly to your
present
> > setup. Its quite comfortable on the road and handles most of the bad
> roads,
> > trails, rocks, mud, sand etc. without many problems. Of course, I don't
> do
> > monster rocks nor mud bogs. I have driven some well set-up Jeeps with
> 4.5"
> > lifts, 35" tires, 4.56 gears, lockers front and rear, and all the other
> > typical mods. They sure do climb over objects more easily than my YJ,
but
> I
> > also never want to drive one in traffic, especially on a wet road.
> >
> > Not trying to start a flame war, but I think usage percentages should
> weight
> > the type of mods.
> >
> > JMO, FWIW.
> >
> > Gunslinger
> >
> > Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "pebble007" <jawooten@c...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 14:57
> > Subject: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> >
> >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > Well hopefully in the next month or so I should come
> > > across about 2500.00 bucks to put into my jeep (thanks honey). What
> > > I need to figure out is on what?
> > >
> > > What I currently have:
> > > 3in Procomp spring lift (stock control arms)
> > > 31x10.50 on ar767 with 4" backspacing
> > > SYE (putting it in hopefully by end of august)
> > > 3.73:1 gears in a d30 (f) and D35c (r)
> > > What I would like to end up with:
> > > 33-35in tires (prefer 35")
> > > Enough lift to effectivly run up to 35in tires
> > > I drive up to 2500 miles per month mostly on the highway so I need as
> > > smooth of a ride that is possible and be able to maintain 75mph on
> > > the freeway.
> > >
> > > I have a 99TJ auto 6cyl. 55,000 miles
> > >
> > > The idea here is to make a good dual purpose vehicle that I can
> > > depend on both on the trail and the highway.
> > >
> > > Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Josh Wooten
> > > 99 TJ
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62580 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Burnin money on the jeep
I vote for the long arm and your future plans concerning it. Why wste
money and time going through the babay steps a lot of AZVJCers have gone
through. I am a strong advocate of doing it right the first time. The
research makes the process achingly slow when you want to jump in and go
for it. I would contact ScottK on the LA setup. He has nothing but good
to say about the RE kit. Too bad Clayton doesn't build anything for TJs.
Stay away from really wide tires. 33x10.50s and 285/75r16s are good
choices for the lightweight TJ and will be less stressful on the
steering and axles, particularly the D35C.
Linda
pebble007 wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> Thanks for all the input on next stepping my jeep. I have
> narrowed it down to a couple of choices/packages:
>
> Behind door #1
> Long arm upgrade kit (no springs, shocks, upper front control arms)
> 1200.00
> upper arms 225.00
> 33" tires 900.00
>
> Then at a later date pick up 4.5 - 5.5 springs, xduty trac bar and
> bracket (front and rear), extended brake lines and regear.
>
> Advantages - LONG ARM KIT, can upgrade the parts as nessecary
> Disadvantages - no additional lift, more cost down the line to
> complete the kit, no strength added to rear axle for off road
> performance.
>
> Behind door #2
> RE 4.5 super flex kit 850.00
> super 35 kit with ox locker 1100.00
> 33 - 35" tires 900.00
>
> Advantages - complete lift ready to go up to 35" tires (may need a
> set of spacers), stronger axle with ox locker to run the larger tires
> and not have to join the Arizona Axle Breaker club (or at least
> reduce this risk), can upgrade to the long arm kit in a year if I am
> not satisfied with the on road ride. With 3.73 gears should be able
> to go up to 4.56 and not have to change the carrier (please correct
> me if I am wrong on this).
>
> Disadvantages - NO LONG ARM KIT (on road ride may not be quite where
> I want it but should be pretty close).
>
> So let me know what you guys and gals think of the 2 options, am I
> missing anything that is a must have right away with either of these
> options that will increase the price.
> Thanks for the info,
> Josh Wooten
> 99 TJ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62581 From: Garrison St.Clair <gunslinger@i...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:51pm
Subject: Re: money to burn on jeep stuff
Which are the compromise for not going to 44" and Unimog axles? <G>
Gunslinger
Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 08 August, 2002 21:47
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> 35's are the compromise for not going to 38" TSL SX's. :-)
>
> --Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:05 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
>
>
> Steve wrote:
>
> "...After all, Josh wants to have a compromise between road and trail."
>
> I guess I have a hard time thinking of 35"s as a "compromise". IMO, when
> you go to 35 and the lifts necessary to clear them, the gears necessary to
> run them, the brakes necessary to stop them, and all the other mods that
are
> interrelated...you are building an off-road machine, not a compromise
> machine.
>
> Anyway, I'm curious to hear what he decides.
>
> Gunslinger
>
> Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 22:54
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
>
>
> > Your not going to get any arguments on stability from me. The thing is,
> > Josh wants to run 35's and still maintain a comfortable driving
> environment.
> > You told him that it was not fun... I think it is (if done right).
Given
> > you can expect to spend more money on gas, there is more wear and tear
on
> > steering components and knuckle ball joints. But as far as cruising on
> the
> > freeway at 75mph with 35" tires...no issue. When doing so, it is not a
> bad
> > idea to compensate with new gears in the pigs and larger brakes
> (preferable
> > larger axles also). All this said, you can make a suitable daily driver
> if
> > you spend the cash and do it right. After all, Josh wants to have a
> > compromise between road and trail.
> >
> > --Steve (Just from experience of driving my cadillac riding YJ)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:04 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > Lifts (of any type) and taller tires all raise the center-of-gravity.
The
> > higher the center-of-gravity, without the appropriate increases in track
> and
> > wheelbase, make a vehicle (any vehicle) less stable.
> >
> > Also a wider tire, unless designed for wet surfaces (or, for that
matter,
> > any equal tire), is more likely to aquaplane. Another aspect of less
> > stability.
> >
> > Just as most sports cars setup for track racing, or even rallying, are
not
> > ideal for highways - the same is true of Jeeps setup to crawl rocks or
> play
> > in the mud.
> >
> > Its like weapons. A 9 mm is a good all around defensive sidearm. A .44
> is
> > till a sidearm but could be sued for some types of hunting. But it
starts
> > getting very uncomfortable if you had to carry it all day everyday. You
> > would much rather carry the nine.
> >
> > Jeeps are no different. You can modify them all you want. But most of
> the
> > mods will make the vehicle less suitable for daily driving.
> >
> > And using the original poster as an example, he's driving about 2.5
times
> > the US average. That's a lot of hours to which I would hate to add much
> > discomfort.
> >
> > As I said, JMO, FWIW, YMMV
> >
> > Gunslinger
> >
> > Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 20:02
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> >
> >
> > > I have to disagree with some of this. If done right, 35's and 4.56
> gears
> > > can be just as comfortable to drive as stock. SOA YJ's (like mine)
ride
> > > pretty damn nice.
> > >
> > > --Steve
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:47 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh,
> > >
> > > Its an interesting conundrum; you really want your Jeep to do
> everything.
> > > Smooth, comfy, and nice top end on the road; and big boulders as well.
> > > Complicated by the fact that you are doing high on-road mileage, by
> > > anybody's reckoning - 30K per year.
> > >
> > > On the Jeep list, which is not as "rock crawling" focused as this list
> is,
> > I
> > > frequently ask folks "what percentage of your driving will be on-road
> vs.
> > > the percentage off-road?" Oft times it is that folks don't realize
the
> > more
> > > "purpose-built" a vehicle becomes, the less "roadable" it becomes
> > > simultaneously.
> > >
> > > One question would be: "Have you driven a 35" tire, 4"+ lift, 4.56
> gears,
> > > Detroit locked Jeep on the highway?" Not fun at all.
> > >
> > > Next question would be: "What have you tried to accomplish (driving)
> with
> > > your Jeep that you have failed?"
> > >
> > > Where you don't want to end up is with a Jeep that know longer serves
> your
> > > primary purpose - daily driver - and doesn't gain you much more on the
> > > trails.
> > >
> > > That said, here is an opinion. My YJ is set up similarly to your
> present
> > > setup. Its quite comfortable on the road and handles most of the bad
> > roads,
> > > trails, rocks, mud, sand etc. without many problems. Of course, I
don't
> > do
> > > monster rocks nor mud bogs. I have driven some well set-up Jeeps with
> > 4.5"
> > > lifts, 35" tires, 4.56 gears, lockers front and rear, and all the
other
> > > typical mods. They sure do climb over objects more easily than my YJ,
> but
> > I
> > > also never want to drive one in traffic, especially on a wet road.
> > >
> > > Not trying to start a flame war, but I think usage percentages should
> > weight
> > > the type of mods.
> > >
> > > JMO, FWIW.
> > >
> > > Gunslinger
> > >
> > > Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "pebble007" <jawooten@c...>
> > > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 14:57
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > Well hopefully in the next month or so I should come
> > > > across about 2500.00 bucks to put into my jeep (thanks honey). What
> > > > I need to figure out is on what?
> > > >
> > > > What I currently have:
> > > > 3in Procomp spring lift (stock control arms)
> > > > 31x10.50 on ar767 with 4" backspacing
> > > > SYE (putting it in hopefully by end of august)
> > > > 3.73:1 gears in a d30 (f) and D35c (r)
> > > > What I would like to end up with:
> > > > 33-35in tires (prefer 35")
> > > > Enough lift to effectivly run up to 35in tires
> > > > I drive up to 2500 miles per month mostly on the highway so I need
as
> > > > smooth of a ride that is possible and be able to maintain 75mph on
> > > > the freeway.
> > > >
> > > > I have a 99TJ auto 6cyl. 55,000 miles
> > > >
> > > > The idea here is to make a good dual purpose vehicle that I can
> > > > depend on both on the trail and the highway.
> > > >
> > > > Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance.
> > > >
> > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > Josh Wooten
> > > > 99 TJ
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
62582 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Thanks Jim, Bill, and Stu. I agrre with all that has been said by them. We
have a little community here. Almost like a family. BBs, in my opinion,
depersonalize things. Because of this list, I have learned more about ZJs
and YJ SOAs than I ever would have on a BB because I never read those parts
of a BB. I am also one of those people (yes, I'll admit it) that would
probably never read the land use portion. Its not because I don't care, but
because the other portions of the board (tech) would appeal more to me and I
just wouldn't "get around" to reading them. In our current format, you can't
help but read them and do something about it.
Oh well, once again, just my opinions.
Chris
> From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:25:25 -0700
> To: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> I hit several BB also and I like them for what they are. Again it may be
> just because this is what I am used to but, I feel our group has a lot more
> of a community feel to it.
> I end up on this group learning a great deal about other types of Jeeps as
> in this format I read more of the posts. On the BB I skip over a lot more. I
> would also not like the chance we would lose the spread of information on
> such issues as Land Use. As in more people might just skip over those. Again
> this is not to say I am right. JMHO
> I would also think asking Mike if the server could even handle that kind of
> format would be a good first step. Why spend time discussing something that
> is not possible. Also who wants to be the moderator? I know I don't. Jim F.
> aka Hackle
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
>
> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
> system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
> to verify their address validity.
>
> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
>
> Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
> Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
>
> Chris
>
> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
>
>> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
>> those
>> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
>> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
>> (I run
>> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
>> Yahoo!
>> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
>> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
>> lists with
>> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
>> two
>> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
>> BBS
>> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
>> to chit
>> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
>> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
>> looking
>> for.
>>
>> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
>> you'd want
>> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
>> other
>> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
>> moderated
>> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
>> approval
>> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>>
>> Just my $0.02.
>>
>> --
>> Hogan Whittall
>> E-Mail: hogan@n...
>> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62583 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 8:04pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Hey Linda, I forgot to ask your opinion.
Have one?
Chris
> From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:25:25 -0700
> To: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> I hit several BB also and I like them for what they are. Again it may be
> just because this is what I am used to but, I feel our group has a lot more
> of a community feel to it.
> I end up on this group learning a great deal about other types of Jeeps as
> in this format I read more of the posts. On the BB I skip over a lot more. I
> would also not like the chance we would lose the spread of information on
> such issues as Land Use. As in more people might just skip over those. Again
> this is not to say I am right. JMHO
> I would also think asking Mike if the server could even handle that kind of
> format would be a good first step. Why spend time discussing something that
> is not possible. Also who wants to be the moderator? I know I don't. Jim F.
> aka Hackle
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
>
> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
> system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
> to verify their address validity.
>
> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
>
> Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
> Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
>
> Chris
>
> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
>
>> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
>> those
>> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
>> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
>> (I run
>> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
>> Yahoo!
>> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
>> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
>> lists with
>> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
>> two
>> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
>> BBS
>> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
>> to chit
>> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
>> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
>> looking
>> for.
>>
>> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
>> you'd want
>> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
>> other
>> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
>> moderated
>> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
>> approval
>> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>>
>> Just my $0.02.
>>
>> --
>> Hogan Whittall
>> E-Mail: hogan@n...
>> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62584 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
:-P
> From: "jeepindog" <jeepindog@y...>
> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:09:25 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> Ok, I understand how ball bearings (BBs) and Bull**** (BS) apply
> to what goes on here at this Yahoo Group, and as far as email goes,
> most people are forum, not against 'em. Can anyone tell me how to
> please all of the people all of the time, because it seems that we
> can't even please some of the people some of the time? LOL! Hope
> this was taken lightly, as this entire topic is a light topic.
>
> Lachlan
>
>
> In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
>> Chris,
>>
>> I like the list setup as is. Why? Because I can dial up, grab all
> the
>> mail I have in my inbox and then go back off-line....read it,
> delete it,
>> answer it, etc. Then dial up again and send out my responses.
>>
>> On-line BBS forums do not allow that. I am not in a position to
> keep a
>> connection up and running for extended periods....so getting it via
> my
>> mail client is certainly nice.
>>
>> There are a ton of Jeep related BBS forums. I would just as soon
> NOT
>> become one of them, if I have anything to say about it.
>>
>> OK...there is my reasons.
>>
>> Stu
>>
>> Stu Olson
>> www.stu-offroad.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
>> To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>>
>> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
>> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally
> more
>> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email
> address
>> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
>> system to send out an email to their email address to have them
> respond
>> to verify their address validity.
>>
>> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change?
> What do
>> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues
> be
>> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
>>
>> Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey?
> Hackle?
>>
>> Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points,
> but
>> if
>>> those
>>> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place
> that
>>> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join
> a BBS
>>
>>> (I run
>>> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi)
> than a
>>> Yahoo!
>>> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from
> what
>>> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few
> mailing
>>> lists with
>>> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really
> meant for
>>
>>> two
>>> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I
> think
>> a
>>> BBS
>>> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You
> want
>>> to chit
>>> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that,
> too.
>> No
>>> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that
> you're
>>> looking
>>> for.
>>>
>>> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd
> think
>>> you'd want
>>> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls
> right
>> now
>>> other
>>> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
>>> moderated
>>> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
>>> approval
>>> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>>>
>>> Just my $0.02.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hogan Whittall
>>> E-Mail: hogan@n...
>>> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62585 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
This list has a great personality that I think would be irreparable if the format switched.
I do however think that a BBS consisting of predominantly AZ wheelers would be great. Not just Jeeps but everyone. Think of the support that could have been rounded up for the land use meetings if all the wheelers out there who "don't understand" could be informed. The cutting edge rigs are being built here. Many of the best trails are here. I am sure there are more people who wheel here than most places.
I can't help but think that the AZVJC is probably the only group that could actually pull enough people to post and keep it interesting.
Maybe I just live under rock and there is already one out there?
Craig
62561 From: Nick Gasmena <NickG@4...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 4:10pm
Subject: Re: FW: thanks
You should have him attend your class Stu :)
~~~~ Have an EXCEL-ent Day!! ~~~~
Nick Gasmena - nickg@4...
-----------------------
Http://www.excelir.com/greatrates - Your gateway to Financial Freedom!
Home Office: 602-595-7734 Cell: 602-400-8896
-----------------------
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.4x4jeep.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] FW: thanks
> The response concerning my past posting about the geocaching ariticle.
This
> is from the author.
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: christina.leonard@a...
> [mailto:christina.leonard@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:30 PM
> To: Stu Olson
> Subject: thanks
>
>
> I just read your posting, thanks for that. I do want to say that I did try
> and interview other geocachers, but none returned my calls. We have tight
> deadlines for our stories. I went out on the White tanks hike one day, and
> the story was due the next. I would have liked to have gone with others
> (and I think I told you that my husband and I planned to use our GPS
system
> to geochache ourselves as well) ... but I do think I got a pretty good
idea
> of what happens from reading a ton of postings and researching the web
> sites. Just wanted to mention that. THanks again ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
62562 From: <jeepthingtj2000@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 0:15pm
Subject: Re: Vote for Our Webmaster as an Off Road God
well gave you a 10!!!!!! good luck with the new shirt. : )
62563 From: Hogan Whittall <hogan@n...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 4:14pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
On Thursday 08 August 2002 03:26 pm, Chris Krieg wrote:
> Let me clarify.
>
> The only way this could possibly (and I even doubt this) work and not
> become the mess that many other BBSs have become is to have membership 100%
> moderated. Each person signing up would have to prove and be verified by
> someone that they live in AZ (it is one of the rules) and has a Jeep
> (another of the rules). Without these rules, we'd have everybody and their
> brother with every make and model of vehicle from every state and country
> joing the BBS.
Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if those
rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS (I run
one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a Yahoo!
Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing lists with
web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for two
different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a BBS
would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want to chit
chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're looking
for.
Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think you'd want
it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now other
than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership moderated
is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator approval
before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
Just my $0.02.
--
Hogan Whittall
E-Mail: hogan@n...
Pager: pagehogan@n...
62564 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 4:30pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
No flames at all. You also make some good points.
The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
to verify their address validity.
Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
Chris
On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
> those
> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
> (I run
> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
> Yahoo!
> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
> lists with
> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
> two
> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
> BBS
> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
> to chit
> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
> looking
> for.
>
> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
> you'd want
> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
> other
> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
> moderated
> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
> approval
> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> --
> Hogan Whittall
> E-Mail: hogan@n...
> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62565 From: Hogan Whittall <hogan@n...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
On Thursday 08 August 2002 04:30 pm, Chris Krieg wrote:
> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
> system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
> to verify their address validity.
That's exactly what the BBS software I use does. You're more than welcome to
sign up and check it out. Basically, you're asked some basic information and
you don't create a password when you register...you get a password in the
verification email, so you use that password to login and then you can change
it to whatever you want. Registrations can also be moderated and require
approval before the user is active. It's quite flexible and I don't think
there's much to worry about as far as it becoming like the Pirate board,
there really aren't any rules to be a member of the BBS but if you cause too
much trouble you will get banned.
As for trolls, especially repeat ones, most software (mine does) has a way to
control access. For example, I can ban members based on email address, their
email domain, and even the IP address or ISP they use. All the poster info
is logged when they post, such as their IP address, to make tracking easier.
>
> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
Someone could always set it up and have people beta-test it without taking
down or affecting the Yahoo group. If it gets the thumbs up then great, if
not then it was at least worth looking into. :)
Y'all are more than welcome to go play with my board and see how it works.
The best part is the software is free.
--
Hogan Whittall
E-Mail: hogan@n...
Pager: pagehogan@n...
62566 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 5:22pm
Subject: [FS] ATTN: 4cyl TJ owners
Price: $50
Contact: hiett710@yahoo.com 602 882 9895
Trying to sell my stock springs and shocks for my 02 TJ. I hear they make the 4cyl ride much more comfortable. They have less then 3k miles on them and are yours for the low low low price of $50(for all)
Mike H.
Mike Hiett
62567 From: hiett710 <hiett710@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 5:28pm
Subject: ATTN It people!!!
Stop by Maricopa Medical Center Employee parking lot anytime during
work hours. I'll be you can find a victim there :)
Mike H. 02 TJ
62568 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 5:41pm
Subject: Re: CK Anv Run Camping?
We are planning on camping out Saturday night.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "g_rob_williams" <g_rob_williams@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 11:49 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] CK Anv Run Camping?
> Is anyone camping out for the night and heading back down by way of
> Lake Pleasant the next day? I am running up with the morning turkey
> creek crowd and am planning on staying the night, then going back
> down the trail the next morning. I camped out last year and had a
> lot of fun, and wanted to do it again this year. -Rob
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
62569 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:50pm
Subject: CROWN KING LUNCH REMINDER
Just to let you all know that tomorrow I will be on the s/e corner of mill
and university at the chili's parking lot collecting the down payment for the
crown king lunch. Saturday I will be on the s/w corner of Thomas and 75th Ave
behind the olive garden. just a reminder, all you need to come up with is
half of the $5.50 which will be $2.75 per person, the remainder must be paid
to Camille at the switchback restaurant when you receive your lunch. Those
who participated in this collection for the lunch down payment will be on a
list. Camille will have a copy of this lunch list. those who paid the full
amount up front will be on the list with "paid in full" next to it. If you
have any questions feel free to call me @ 602-438-0468. Sunday morning (
8-11-02) I will be delivering the down payment to Camille in crown king. TIA
Anthony Celaya
62570 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 6:06pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Chris, In my Honest opinion, all good points.
The "cool" thing about the VJC in it's current configuration is it tends to
appeal to the people who do the MOST to improve the image of the group.
These people bring positive recognition to the group and to the sport.
Getting just the info you want kind of leaves you like an Ostrich with it's
head in a hole.
This may be an old fashioned view, but I think we have better clout as a
group of people versus "a group of groups".
Owning a Jeep has many facets.
Sometimes, you gotta take the good with the bad.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
To: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
> What about the issues I posted? Trolls, bandwidth, space, member location
> and vehicle verification?
>
> My concern is that we will become (as most popular BBs become when they
get
> too popular) too big and lose our identity. They become a haven for bored
> people that have nothing better to do than spew trash (Yeah, I know, we
have
> David Withers, but he has gone to digest form). Yeah, we could have
> moderators to try to control this, but it is often a losing battle. An
> list is harder to troll from (except for David W.) because many can't get
> personal emails at work or it is monitored so they don't even try.
> Look at what we have now. Our classifieds section is already becoming a
> place for non-Jeep owners to post their non-Jeep stuff for sale. They fill
> in just enough info to join to post an ad. Look at this Bruce Bot guy.
I've
> never seen him post or even heard of him and he has several non-Jeep
related
> ads in the General Jeep classifieds. His profile has his name and location
> and email address. That's it. No Jeeps listed at all. Translation. It is a
> free, easy place to throw his ads so he joined just to do that.
> We'd have people from all over posting the "can anyone post pics of a red
> Jeep with blue tires, green wheels, yellow rollbar pads, and a poodle on
the
> hood" threads. Who wants to try to control that?
>
> Even if we had the option to just receive emails from the BB, we'd still
get
> all the crap threads, just in email form instead.
>
> Chris
>
> > From: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:33:37 -0700
> > To: "'DesertJeep'" <joey@d...>, "'David
> > Shields'"<drshieldsut@y...>,
> > "'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'"<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
> >
> > For all of those that said:
> >
> > "NO!"
> >
> > Would you be interested in it, if you still received e-mails and could
> > "reply" to a post via e-mail?
> >
> > The idea is that you could "subscribe" to whichever forums (ie. CJ Tech,
TJ
> > Tech, Trips, General Chit-Chat, etc...)you wanted to. On the subscribed
> > forums, you would receive (if you choose) an e-mail version of each
post.
> > You could then reply to the post, as long as you don't modify the "Key"
in
> > the subject, and it would be posted to the proper forum and thread --
OR --
> > You could choose to reply directly to the sender.
> >
> > You could also start a new post simply by sending an e-mail to the
proper
> > forum. (ie. CJTech@A..., TJTech@A..., Trips@A...,
> > ChitChat@A..., etc...) You wouldn't have to be "Subscribed" to the
> > forum you are posting to either.
> >
> > Additionally, moderators could be assigned to each forum to keep people
"in
> > line."
> >
> > As a bonus, it would also remove any advertisements :)
> >
> > This is something I am working on, I am building it using C# and ASPX
pages
> > -- so it should be pretty fast. It will be some time before it is ready,
but
> > I might have a "Beta" version ready around New Years.
> >
> > - Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Shields [mailto:drshieldsut@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:57 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
> >
> >
> > I know this topic was brought up and polled a few
> > months ago. I think I voted against the change.
> > However, for the past two months I have been using
> > several bulletin boards and have very much enjoyed
> > them. For Example the Pirate's of the Rubicon Board, S.N.O.R.T.'s
> > board, and the JeepForum. I have really come to enjoy them because they
> > give me the freedom to look at the topics that are of the most interest
> > and skip the ones that are uninteresting to me. If you have moderators
> > for the various forums they can monitor their forum and keep OT posts
> > off that forum or send the post to the forum it belongs in.
> >
> > Would there be any interest in reconsidering a change
> > to the bulletin board approach?
> >
> > Just wondering.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> > http://www.hotjobs.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62571 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 2:03pm
Subject: CROWN KING LUNCH REMINDER
OOPS, I forgot to post the times I'll be at these locations. here they are.
Friday-s/e corner of mill and university form 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM
saterday-s/w corner of 75th Ave and Thomas from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
Anthony Celaya
62572 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 6:04pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Thanks Bill. I like what you said. Not old fashioned at all.
Anyone else?
Chris
> From: "Bill Mish" <yldkat55@h...>
> Organization: Wildcat Off Road
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:06:34 -0700
> To: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>, <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>, "Chris
> Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> Chris, In my Honest opinion, all good points.
> The "cool" thing about the VJC in it's current configuration is it tends to
> appeal to the people who do the MOST to improve the image of the group.
> These people bring positive recognition to the group and to the sport.
>
> Getting just the info you want kind of leaves you like an Ostrich with it's
> head in a hole.
> This may be an old fashioned view, but I think we have better clout as a
> group of people versus "a group of groups".
> Owning a Jeep has many facets.
> Sometimes, you gotta take the good with the bad.
>
>
> Bill Mish
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
> To: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
>
>> What about the issues I posted? Trolls, bandwidth, space, member location
>> and vehicle verification?
>>
>> My concern is that we will become (as most popular BBs become when they
> get
>> too popular) too big and lose our identity. They become a haven for bored
>> people that have nothing better to do than spew trash (Yeah, I know, we
> have
>> David Withers, but he has gone to digest form). Yeah, we could have
>> moderators to try to control this, but it is often a losing battle. An
>> list is harder to troll from (except for David W.) because many can't get
>> personal emails at work or it is monitored so they don't even try.
>> Look at what we have now. Our classifieds section is already becoming a
>> place for non-Jeep owners to post their non-Jeep stuff for sale. They fill
>> in just enough info to join to post an ad. Look at this Bruce Bot guy.
> I've
>> never seen him post or even heard of him and he has several non-Jeep
> related
>> ads in the General Jeep classifieds. His profile has his name and location
>> and email address. That's it. No Jeeps listed at all. Translation. It is a
>> free, easy place to throw his ads so he joined just to do that.
>> We'd have people from all over posting the "can anyone post pics of a red
>> Jeep with blue tires, green wheels, yellow rollbar pads, and a poodle on
> the
>> hood" threads. Who wants to try to control that?
>>
>> Even if we had the option to just receive emails from the BB, we'd still
> get
>> all the crap threads, just in email form instead.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>> From: "Chatfield, Mike" <Mike@A...>
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:33:37 -0700
>>> To: "'DesertJeep'" <joey@d...>, "'David
>>> Shields'"<drshieldsut@y...>,
>>> "'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'"<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>>>
>>> For all of those that said:
>>>
>>> "NO!"
>>>
>>> Would you be interested in it, if you still received e-mails and could
>>> "reply" to a post via e-mail?
>>>
>>> The idea is that you could "subscribe" to whichever forums (ie. CJ Tech,
> TJ
>>> Tech, Trips, General Chit-Chat, etc...)you wanted to. On the subscribed
>>> forums, you would receive (if you choose) an e-mail version of each
> post.
>>> You could then reply to the post, as long as you don't modify the "Key"
> in
>>> the subject, and it would be posted to the proper forum and thread --
> OR --
>>> You could choose to reply directly to the sender.
>>>
>>> You could also start a new post simply by sending an e-mail to the
> proper
>>> forum. (ie. CJTech@A..., TJTech@A..., Trips@A...,
>>> ChitChat@A..., etc...) You wouldn't have to be "Subscribed" to the
>>> forum you are posting to either.
>>>
>>> Additionally, moderators could be assigned to each forum to keep people
> "in
>>> line."
>>>
>>> As a bonus, it would also remove any advertisements :)
>>>
>>> This is something I am working on, I am building it using C# and ASPX
> pages
>>> -- so it should be pretty fast. It will be some time before it is ready,
> but
>>> I might have a "Beta" version ready around New Years.
>>>
>>> - Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Shields [mailto:drshieldsut@y...]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:57 PM
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>>>
>>>
>>> I know this topic was brought up and polled a few
>>> months ago. I think I voted against the change.
>>> However, for the past two months I have been using
>>> several bulletin boards and have very much enjoyed
>>> them. For Example the Pirate's of the Rubicon Board, S.N.O.R.T.'s
>>> board, and the JeepForum. I have really come to enjoy them because they
>>> give me the freedom to look at the topics that are of the most interest
>>> and skip the ones that are uninteresting to me. If you have moderators
>>> for the various forums they can monitor their forum and keep OT posts
>>> off that forum or send the post to the forum it belongs in.
>>>
>>> Would there be any interest in reconsidering a change
>>> to the bulletin board approach?
>>>
>>> Just wondering.
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
>>> http://www.hotjobs.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62573 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Ok, Hogan, not that I would try to force feed someone a Land issue, but I
will use it to illustrate my point.
How many of the people do you think you would reach that were only
interested in modifying their Jeep, and completely oblivious to the need to
protect their sport?
Here, you post to the whole group no matter what.
Sure some wont be interested.
BFD.
Some will get caught up in the "rallying the troops" and go just to check it
out, or write that letter or whatever.
Keeping your finger on the pulse of the Jeeping community is pretty
important.
You get a better feeling for the fellow "Virtual" members of the club with
one group.
BB's lend themselves to cliques, more so than this format.
BB's lend themselves well to giving you just what you want.
One thing to remember, The more you modify something, the more "Special
purpose" it becomes.
I think this rings true for Jeeps and oddly enough, this group.
In the groups case, I don't think "Special Purpose" is going to fit the
majority.
Have a good one!
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hogan Whittall" <hogan@n...>
To: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
> On Thursday 08 August 2002 03:26 pm, Chris Krieg wrote:
> > Let me clarify.
> >
> > The only way this could possibly (and I even doubt this) work and not
> > become the mess that many other BBSs have become is to have membership
100%
> > moderated. Each person signing up would have to prove and be verified by
> > someone that they live in AZ (it is one of the rules) and has a Jeep
> > (another of the rules). Without these rules, we'd have everybody and
their
> > brother with every make and model of vehicle from every state and
country
> > joing the BBS.
>
> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
those
> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS (I
run
> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
Yahoo!
> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing lists
with
> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for two
> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
BBS
> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want to
chit
> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
looking
> for.
>
> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think you'd
want
> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
other
> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
moderated
> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator approval
> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> --
> Hogan Whittall
> E-Mail: hogan@n...
> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62574 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 6:42pm
Subject: RE: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Chris,
I like the list setup as is. Why? Because I can dial up, grab all the
mail I have in my inbox and then go back off-line....read it, delete it,
answer it, etc. Then dial up again and send out my responses.
On-line BBS forums do not allow that. I am not in a position to keep a
connection up and running for extended periods....so getting it via my
mail client is certainly nice.
There are a ton of Jeep related BBS forums. I would just as soon NOT
become one of them, if I have anything to say about it.
OK...there is my reasons.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
No flames at all. You also make some good points.
The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
to verify their address validity.
Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
Chris
On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but
if
> those
> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
> (I run
> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
> Yahoo!
> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
> lists with
> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
> two
> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think
a
> BBS
> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
> to chit
> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too.
No
> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
> looking
> for.
>
> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
> you'd want
> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right
now
> other
> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
> moderated
> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
> approval
> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> --
> Hogan Whittall
> E-Mail: hogan@n...
> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62575 From: jeepindog <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:09pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Ok, I understand how ball bearings (BBs) and Bull**** (BS) apply
to what goes on here at this Yahoo Group, and as far as email goes,
most people are forum, not against 'em. Can anyone tell me how to
please all of the people all of the time, because it seems that we
can't even please some of the people some of the time? LOL! Hope
this was taken lightly, as this entire topic is a light topic.
Lachlan
In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I like the list setup as is. Why? Because I can dial up, grab all
the
> mail I have in my inbox and then go back off-line....read it,
delete it,
> answer it, etc. Then dial up again and send out my responses.
>
> On-line BBS forums do not allow that. I am not in a position to
keep a
> connection up and running for extended periods....so getting it via
my
> mail client is certainly nice.
>
> There are a ton of Jeep related BBS forums. I would just as soon
NOT
> become one of them, if I have anything to say about it.
>
> OK...there is my reasons.
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally
more
> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email
address
> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
> system to send out an email to their email address to have them
respond
> to verify their address validity.
>
> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change?
What do
> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues
be
> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
>
> Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey?
Hackle?
>
> Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
>
> Chris
>
> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
>
> > Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points,
but
> if
> > those
> > rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place
that
> > requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join
a BBS
>
> > (I run
> > one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi)
than a
> > Yahoo!
> > Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from
what
> > they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few
mailing
> > lists with
> > web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really
meant for
>
> > two
> > different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I
think
> a
> > BBS
> > would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You
want
> > to chit
> > chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that,
too.
> No
> > having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that
you're
> > looking
> > for.
> >
> > Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd
think
> > you'd want
> > it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls
right
> now
> > other
> > than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
> > moderated
> > is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
> > approval
> > before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
> >
> > Just my $0.02.
> >
> > --
> > Hogan Whittall
> > E-Mail: hogan@n...
> > Pager: pagehogan@n...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62576 From: rrichards13 <rrichards13@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:21pm
Subject: Re: Crown King Question
Arent we in a
drought??????
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Kyle
Hagan" <Kyle@s...> wrote:
> This will be my 1st ride with the club since I moved to AZ.
>
> What my question is, I Like to ride without my doors, will the trip
takeme
> through and deep water
> that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im running 33's with 2in
spacers
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@y...>; <pats@d...>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for Crown King
>
>
> > Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through Phoenix. You will be
taking
> > State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of Bell Road. Once
you get to
> > SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go right (BTW at this
point
> the
> > Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of the road). You
will
> quickly
> > come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are still on SR74 it
is about
> 8
> > miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off main entry also
called
> > Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now headed north
just follow
> > this road until it turns to a dirt road and make a left you are
there. HTH
> > Jim F
> >
> > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
member. "Groucho
> > Marx"
> > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > http://www.rockrats.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
62577 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:25pm
Subject: RE: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
I hit several BB also and I like them for what they are. Again it may be
just because this is what I am used to but, I feel our group has a lot more
of a community feel to it.
I end up on this group learning a great deal about other types of Jeeps as
in this format I read more of the posts. On the BB I skip over a lot more. I
would also not like the chance we would lose the spread of information on
such issues as Land Use. As in more people might just skip over those. Again
this is not to say I am right. JMHO
I would also think asking Mike if the server could even handle that kind of
format would be a good first step. Why spend time discussing something that
is not possible. Also who wants to be the moderator? I know I don't. Jim F.
aka Hackle
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
No flames at all. You also make some good points.
The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
to verify their address validity.
Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
Chris
On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
> those
> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
> (I run
> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
> Yahoo!
> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
> lists with
> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
> two
> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
> BBS
> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
> to chit
> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
> looking
> for.
>
> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
> you'd want
> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
> other
> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
> moderated
> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
> approval
> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> --
> Hogan Whittall
> E-Mail: hogan@n...
> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62578 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: Parts cross reference
The parts department at Darners found 12 spring P/Ns for the 93 ZJ.
Linda
jetowle2000 wrote:
>
> According to a few sites I looked at, the lift springs are the same
> part numbers. So I am guessing the stock springs are the same part
> number. The search I did considered both to be 4x4's. I would also
> guess that they would need to have the same size engine, but I am not
> sure that this really matters.
>
> --James
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "RAM" <ramaz@c...> wrote:
> > Morning all
> >
> > Does anyone know of a web site that lets you cross reference parts
> and
> > parts numbers? My son broke a coil spring on his 88 XJ, I still
> have
> > the original coils from my 95 XJ but need to know if they will fit.
> > Checked autozone.com and a couple others and they don't list any
> part
> > numbers for coil springs.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > RAM
> >
> > Randall A. Mutter 95XJ, 76 CJ-7
> > ramaz@c...
> >
> > Thank goodness there are no 12 step programs for Jeeping...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62579 From: Steve Meyer <steve.j.meyer@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:47pm
Subject: RE: money to burn on jeep stuff
35's are the compromise for not going to 38" TSL SX's. :-)
--Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:05 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
Steve wrote:
"...After all, Josh wants to have a compromise between road and trail."
I guess I have a hard time thinking of 35"s as a "compromise". IMO, when
you go to 35 and the lifts necessary to clear them, the gears necessary to
run them, the brakes necessary to stop them, and all the other mods that are
interrelated...you are building an off-road machine, not a compromise
machine.
Anyway, I'm curious to hear what he decides.
Gunslinger
Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 22:54
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> Your not going to get any arguments on stability from me. The thing is,
> Josh wants to run 35's and still maintain a comfortable driving
environment.
> You told him that it was not fun... I think it is (if done right). Given
> you can expect to spend more money on gas, there is more wear and tear on
> steering components and knuckle ball joints. But as far as cruising on
the
> freeway at 75mph with 35" tires...no issue. When doing so, it is not a
bad
> idea to compensate with new gears in the pigs and larger brakes
(preferable
> larger axles also). All this said, you can make a suitable daily driver
if
> you spend the cash and do it right. After all, Josh wants to have a
> compromise between road and trail.
>
> --Steve (Just from experience of driving my cadillac riding YJ)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:04 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Lifts (of any type) and taller tires all raise the center-of-gravity. The
> higher the center-of-gravity, without the appropriate increases in track
and
> wheelbase, make a vehicle (any vehicle) less stable.
>
> Also a wider tire, unless designed for wet surfaces (or, for that matter,
> any equal tire), is more likely to aquaplane. Another aspect of less
> stability.
>
> Just as most sports cars setup for track racing, or even rallying, are not
> ideal for highways - the same is true of Jeeps setup to crawl rocks or
play
> in the mud.
>
> Its like weapons. A 9 mm is a good all around defensive sidearm. A .44
is
> till a sidearm but could be sued for some types of hunting. But it starts
> getting very uncomfortable if you had to carry it all day everyday. You
> would much rather carry the nine.
>
> Jeeps are no different. You can modify them all you want. But most of
the
> mods will make the vehicle less suitable for daily driving.
>
> And using the original poster as an example, he's driving about 2.5 times
> the US average. That's a lot of hours to which I would hate to add much
> discomfort.
>
> As I said, JMO, FWIW, YMMV
>
> Gunslinger
>
> Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 20:02
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
>
>
> > I have to disagree with some of this. If done right, 35's and 4.56
gears
> > can be just as comfortable to drive as stock. SOA YJ's (like mine) ride
> > pretty damn nice.
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:47 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> >
> >
> > Josh,
> >
> > Its an interesting conundrum; you really want your Jeep to do
everything.
> > Smooth, comfy, and nice top end on the road; and big boulders as well.
> > Complicated by the fact that you are doing high on-road mileage, by
> > anybody's reckoning - 30K per year.
> >
> > On the Jeep list, which is not as "rock crawling" focused as this list
is,
> I
> > frequently ask folks "what percentage of your driving will be on-road
vs.
> > the percentage off-road?" Oft times it is that folks don't realize the
> more
> > "purpose-built" a vehicle becomes, the less "roadable" it becomes
> > simultaneously.
> >
> > One question would be: "Have you driven a 35" tire, 4"+ lift, 4.56
gears,
> > Detroit locked Jeep on the highway?" Not fun at all.
> >
> > Next question would be: "What have you tried to accomplish (driving)
with
> > your Jeep that you have failed?"
> >
> > Where you don't want to end up is with a Jeep that know longer serves
your
> > primary purpose - daily driver - and doesn't gain you much more on the
> > trails.
> >
> > That said, here is an opinion. My YJ is set up similarly to your
present
> > setup. Its quite comfortable on the road and handles most of the bad
> roads,
> > trails, rocks, mud, sand etc. without many problems. Of course, I don't
> do
> > monster rocks nor mud bogs. I have driven some well set-up Jeeps with
> 4.5"
> > lifts, 35" tires, 4.56 gears, lockers front and rear, and all the other
> > typical mods. They sure do climb over objects more easily than my YJ,
but
> I
> > also never want to drive one in traffic, especially on a wet road.
> >
> > Not trying to start a flame war, but I think usage percentages should
> weight
> > the type of mods.
> >
> > JMO, FWIW.
> >
> > Gunslinger
> >
> > Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "pebble007" <jawooten@c...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 14:57
> > Subject: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> >
> >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > Well hopefully in the next month or so I should come
> > > across about 2500.00 bucks to put into my jeep (thanks honey). What
> > > I need to figure out is on what?
> > >
> > > What I currently have:
> > > 3in Procomp spring lift (stock control arms)
> > > 31x10.50 on ar767 with 4" backspacing
> > > SYE (putting it in hopefully by end of august)
> > > 3.73:1 gears in a d30 (f) and D35c (r)
> > > What I would like to end up with:
> > > 33-35in tires (prefer 35")
> > > Enough lift to effectivly run up to 35in tires
> > > I drive up to 2500 miles per month mostly on the highway so I need as
> > > smooth of a ride that is possible and be able to maintain 75mph on
> > > the freeway.
> > >
> > > I have a 99TJ auto 6cyl. 55,000 miles
> > >
> > > The idea here is to make a good dual purpose vehicle that I can
> > > depend on both on the trail and the highway.
> > >
> > > Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Josh Wooten
> > > 99 TJ
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62580 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Burnin money on the jeep
I vote for the long arm and your future plans concerning it. Why wste
money and time going through the babay steps a lot of AZVJCers have gone
through. I am a strong advocate of doing it right the first time. The
research makes the process achingly slow when you want to jump in and go
for it. I would contact ScottK on the LA setup. He has nothing but good
to say about the RE kit. Too bad Clayton doesn't build anything for TJs.
Stay away from really wide tires. 33x10.50s and 285/75r16s are good
choices for the lightweight TJ and will be less stressful on the
steering and axles, particularly the D35C.
Linda
pebble007 wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> Thanks for all the input on next stepping my jeep. I have
> narrowed it down to a couple of choices/packages:
>
> Behind door #1
> Long arm upgrade kit (no springs, shocks, upper front control arms)
> 1200.00
> upper arms 225.00
> 33" tires 900.00
>
> Then at a later date pick up 4.5 - 5.5 springs, xduty trac bar and
> bracket (front and rear), extended brake lines and regear.
>
> Advantages - LONG ARM KIT, can upgrade the parts as nessecary
> Disadvantages - no additional lift, more cost down the line to
> complete the kit, no strength added to rear axle for off road
> performance.
>
> Behind door #2
> RE 4.5 super flex kit 850.00
> super 35 kit with ox locker 1100.00
> 33 - 35" tires 900.00
>
> Advantages - complete lift ready to go up to 35" tires (may need a
> set of spacers), stronger axle with ox locker to run the larger tires
> and not have to join the Arizona Axle Breaker club (or at least
> reduce this risk), can upgrade to the long arm kit in a year if I am
> not satisfied with the on road ride. With 3.73 gears should be able
> to go up to 4.56 and not have to change the carrier (please correct
> me if I am wrong on this).
>
> Disadvantages - NO LONG ARM KIT (on road ride may not be quite where
> I want it but should be pretty close).
>
> So let me know what you guys and gals think of the 2 options, am I
> missing anything that is a must have right away with either of these
> options that will increase the price.
> Thanks for the info,
> Josh Wooten
> 99 TJ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62581 From: Garrison St.Clair <gunslinger@i...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:51pm
Subject: Re: money to burn on jeep stuff
Which are the compromise for not going to 44" and Unimog axles? <G>
Gunslinger
Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 08 August, 2002 21:47
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> 35's are the compromise for not going to 38" TSL SX's. :-)
>
> --Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:05 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
>
>
> Steve wrote:
>
> "...After all, Josh wants to have a compromise between road and trail."
>
> I guess I have a hard time thinking of 35"s as a "compromise". IMO, when
> you go to 35 and the lifts necessary to clear them, the gears necessary to
> run them, the brakes necessary to stop them, and all the other mods that
are
> interrelated...you are building an off-road machine, not a compromise
> machine.
>
> Anyway, I'm curious to hear what he decides.
>
> Gunslinger
>
> Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 22:54
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
>
>
> > Your not going to get any arguments on stability from me. The thing is,
> > Josh wants to run 35's and still maintain a comfortable driving
> environment.
> > You told him that it was not fun... I think it is (if done right).
Given
> > you can expect to spend more money on gas, there is more wear and tear
on
> > steering components and knuckle ball joints. But as far as cruising on
> the
> > freeway at 75mph with 35" tires...no issue. When doing so, it is not a
> bad
> > idea to compensate with new gears in the pigs and larger brakes
> (preferable
> > larger axles also). All this said, you can make a suitable daily driver
> if
> > you spend the cash and do it right. After all, Josh wants to have a
> > compromise between road and trail.
> >
> > --Steve (Just from experience of driving my cadillac riding YJ)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:04 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > Lifts (of any type) and taller tires all raise the center-of-gravity.
The
> > higher the center-of-gravity, without the appropriate increases in track
> and
> > wheelbase, make a vehicle (any vehicle) less stable.
> >
> > Also a wider tire, unless designed for wet surfaces (or, for that
matter,
> > any equal tire), is more likely to aquaplane. Another aspect of less
> > stability.
> >
> > Just as most sports cars setup for track racing, or even rallying, are
not
> > ideal for highways - the same is true of Jeeps setup to crawl rocks or
> play
> > in the mud.
> >
> > Its like weapons. A 9 mm is a good all around defensive sidearm. A .44
> is
> > till a sidearm but could be sued for some types of hunting. But it
starts
> > getting very uncomfortable if you had to carry it all day everyday. You
> > would much rather carry the nine.
> >
> > Jeeps are no different. You can modify them all you want. But most of
> the
> > mods will make the vehicle less suitable for daily driving.
> >
> > And using the original poster as an example, he's driving about 2.5
times
> > the US average. That's a lot of hours to which I would hate to add much
> > discomfort.
> >
> > As I said, JMO, FWIW, YMMV
> >
> > Gunslinger
> >
> > Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 20:02
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> >
> >
> > > I have to disagree with some of this. If done right, 35's and 4.56
> gears
> > > can be just as comfortable to drive as stock. SOA YJ's (like mine)
ride
> > > pretty damn nice.
> > >
> > > --Steve
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Garrison St.Clair [mailto:gunslinger@i...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:47 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh,
> > >
> > > Its an interesting conundrum; you really want your Jeep to do
> everything.
> > > Smooth, comfy, and nice top end on the road; and big boulders as well.
> > > Complicated by the fact that you are doing high on-road mileage, by
> > > anybody's reckoning - 30K per year.
> > >
> > > On the Jeep list, which is not as "rock crawling" focused as this list
> is,
> > I
> > > frequently ask folks "what percentage of your driving will be on-road
> vs.
> > > the percentage off-road?" Oft times it is that folks don't realize
the
> > more
> > > "purpose-built" a vehicle becomes, the less "roadable" it becomes
> > > simultaneously.
> > >
> > > One question would be: "Have you driven a 35" tire, 4"+ lift, 4.56
> gears,
> > > Detroit locked Jeep on the highway?" Not fun at all.
> > >
> > > Next question would be: "What have you tried to accomplish (driving)
> with
> > > your Jeep that you have failed?"
> > >
> > > Where you don't want to end up is with a Jeep that know longer serves
> your
> > > primary purpose - daily driver - and doesn't gain you much more on the
> > > trails.
> > >
> > > That said, here is an opinion. My YJ is set up similarly to your
> present
> > > setup. Its quite comfortable on the road and handles most of the bad
> > roads,
> > > trails, rocks, mud, sand etc. without many problems. Of course, I
don't
> > do
> > > monster rocks nor mud bogs. I have driven some well set-up Jeeps with
> > 4.5"
> > > lifts, 35" tires, 4.56 gears, lockers front and rear, and all the
other
> > > typical mods. They sure do climb over objects more easily than my YJ,
> but
> > I
> > > also never want to drive one in traffic, especially on a wet road.
> > >
> > > Not trying to start a flame war, but I think usage percentages should
> > weight
> > > the type of mods.
> > >
> > > JMO, FWIW.
> > >
> > > Gunslinger
> > >
> > > Gunslinger's First Law: "No good deed goes unpunished."
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "pebble007" <jawooten@c...>
> > > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 07 August, 2002 14:57
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > Well hopefully in the next month or so I should come
> > > > across about 2500.00 bucks to put into my jeep (thanks honey). What
> > > > I need to figure out is on what?
> > > >
> > > > What I currently have:
> > > > 3in Procomp spring lift (stock control arms)
> > > > 31x10.50 on ar767 with 4" backspacing
> > > > SYE (putting it in hopefully by end of august)
> > > > 3.73:1 gears in a d30 (f) and D35c (r)
> > > > What I would like to end up with:
> > > > 33-35in tires (prefer 35")
> > > > Enough lift to effectivly run up to 35in tires
> > > > I drive up to 2500 miles per month mostly on the highway so I need
as
> > > > smooth of a ride that is possible and be able to maintain 75mph on
> > > > the freeway.
> > > >
> > > > I have a 99TJ auto 6cyl. 55,000 miles
> > > >
> > > > The idea here is to make a good dual purpose vehicle that I can
> > > > depend on both on the trail and the highway.
> > > >
> > > > Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance.
> > > >
> > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > Josh Wooten
> > > > 99 TJ
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
62582 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Thanks Jim, Bill, and Stu. I agrre with all that has been said by them. We
have a little community here. Almost like a family. BBs, in my opinion,
depersonalize things. Because of this list, I have learned more about ZJs
and YJ SOAs than I ever would have on a BB because I never read those parts
of a BB. I am also one of those people (yes, I'll admit it) that would
probably never read the land use portion. Its not because I don't care, but
because the other portions of the board (tech) would appeal more to me and I
just wouldn't "get around" to reading them. In our current format, you can't
help but read them and do something about it.
Oh well, once again, just my opinions.
Chris
> From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:25:25 -0700
> To: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> I hit several BB also and I like them for what they are. Again it may be
> just because this is what I am used to but, I feel our group has a lot more
> of a community feel to it.
> I end up on this group learning a great deal about other types of Jeeps as
> in this format I read more of the posts. On the BB I skip over a lot more. I
> would also not like the chance we would lose the spread of information on
> such issues as Land Use. As in more people might just skip over those. Again
> this is not to say I am right. JMHO
> I would also think asking Mike if the server could even handle that kind of
> format would be a good first step. Why spend time discussing something that
> is not possible. Also who wants to be the moderator? I know I don't. Jim F.
> aka Hackle
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
>
> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
> system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
> to verify their address validity.
>
> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
>
> Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
> Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
>
> Chris
>
> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
>
>> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
>> those
>> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
>> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
>> (I run
>> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
>> Yahoo!
>> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
>> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
>> lists with
>> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
>> two
>> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
>> BBS
>> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
>> to chit
>> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
>> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
>> looking
>> for.
>>
>> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
>> you'd want
>> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
>> other
>> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
>> moderated
>> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
>> approval
>> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>>
>> Just my $0.02.
>>
>> --
>> Hogan Whittall
>> E-Mail: hogan@n...
>> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62583 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 8:04pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
Hey Linda, I forgot to ask your opinion.
Have one?
Chris
> From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:25:25 -0700
> To: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> I hit several BB also and I like them for what they are. Again it may be
> just because this is what I am used to but, I feel our group has a lot more
> of a community feel to it.
> I end up on this group learning a great deal about other types of Jeeps as
> in this format I read more of the posts. On the BB I skip over a lot more. I
> would also not like the chance we would lose the spread of information on
> such issues as Land Use. As in more people might just skip over those. Again
> this is not to say I am right. JMHO
> I would also think asking Mike if the server could even handle that kind of
> format would be a good first step. Why spend time discussing something that
> is not possible. Also who wants to be the moderator? I know I don't. Jim F.
> aka Hackle
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
>
> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally more
> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email address
> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
> system to send out an email to their email address to have them respond
> to verify their address validity.
>
> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change? What do
> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues be
> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
>
> Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey? Hackle?
> Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
>
> Chris
>
> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
>
>> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points, but if
>> those
>> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place that
>> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join a BBS
>> (I run
>> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi) than a
>> Yahoo!
>> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from what
>> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few mailing
>> lists with
>> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really meant for
>> two
>> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I think a
>> BBS
>> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You want
>> to chit
>> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that, too. No
>> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that you're
>> looking
>> for.
>>
>> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd think
>> you'd want
>> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls right now
>> other
>> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
>> moderated
>> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
>> approval
>> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>>
>> Just my $0.02.
>>
>> --
>> Hogan Whittall
>> E-Mail: hogan@n...
>> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62584 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
:-P
> From: "jeepindog" <jeepindog@y...>
> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:09:25 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>
> Ok, I understand how ball bearings (BBs) and Bull**** (BS) apply
> to what goes on here at this Yahoo Group, and as far as email goes,
> most people are forum, not against 'em. Can anyone tell me how to
> please all of the people all of the time, because it seems that we
> can't even please some of the people some of the time? LOL! Hope
> this was taken lightly, as this entire topic is a light topic.
>
> Lachlan
>
>
> In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
>> Chris,
>>
>> I like the list setup as is. Why? Because I can dial up, grab all
> the
>> mail I have in my inbox and then go back off-line....read it,
> delete it,
>> answer it, etc. Then dial up again and send out my responses.
>>
>> On-line BBS forums do not allow that. I am not in a position to
> keep a
>> connection up and running for extended periods....so getting it via
> my
>> mail client is certainly nice.
>>
>> There are a ton of Jeep related BBS forums. I would just as soon
> NOT
>> become one of them, if I have anything to say about it.
>>
>> OK...there is my reasons.
>>
>> Stu
>>
>> Stu Olson
>> www.stu-offroad.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:31 PM
>> To: Hogan Whittall; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
>>
>> No flames at all. You also make some good points.
>> The big difference is that with an email list, you are generally
> more
>> accountable because you have to give an actual traceable email
> address
>> so, people don't troll as much. I guess it could be set up on a BBS
>> system to send out an email to their email address to have them
> respond
>> to verify their address validity.
>>
>> Maybe I am just being too set in my ways. Is it time to change?
> What do
>> the other old-timers have to say. Can this work? Can these issues
> be
>> resolved? Would it be better or a cluster f***.
>>
>> Doug B? Bill Mish? James Towle? Joe West? Scott Kruize? Sharkey?
> Hackle?
>>
>> Stu? Others? What do you old-timers think?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 04:14 PM, Hogan Whittall wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly how is that different than NOW? :-) I see your points,
> but
>> if
>>> those
>>> rules aren't even being enforced in the first place, why place
> that
>>> requirement on another medium? Why is it so much easier to join
> a BBS
>>
>>> (I run
>>> one, http://www.extremejeep.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi)
> than a
>>> Yahoo!
>>> Group? My personal feeling is that people don't want change from
> what
>>> they're used to more than anything else. I also run a few
> mailing
>>> lists with
>>> web interfaces, similar to Yahoo! Groups, and they're really
> meant for
>>
>>> two
>>> different things, IMO. With as much traffic as the list sees I
> think
>> a
>>> BBS
>>> would make it a lot easier for people to handle in general. You
> want
>>> to chit
>>> chat? Go there. Land use issues? There's a section for that,
> too.
>> No
>>> having to weed through pages of messages just to find one that
> you're
>>> looking
>>> for.
>>>
>>> Flame away, but if you want member verification on a BBS I'd
> think
>>> you'd want
>>> it just as bad on here as well. Nothing is preventing trolls
> right
>> now
>>> other
>>> than it's more of a mailing list than a board. Having membership
>>> moderated
>>> is a non-issue, simply have the board software wait for moderator
>>> approval
>>> before allowing the user to post. *shrug*
>>>
>>> Just my $0.02.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hogan Whittall
>>> E-Mail: hogan@n...
>>> Pager: pagehogan@n...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62585 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Coversion to Bulletin Board type Forum
This list has a great personality that I think would be irreparable if the format switched.
I do however think that a BBS consisting of predominantly AZ wheelers would be great. Not just Jeeps but everyone. Think of the support that could have been rounded up for the land use meetings if all the wheelers out there who "don't understand" could be informed. The cutting edge rigs are being built here. Many of the best trails are here. I am sure there are more people who wheel here than most places.
I can't help but think that the AZVJC is probably the only group that could actually pull enough people to post and keep it interesting.
Maybe I just live under rock and there is already one out there?
Craig