blooddrive
01-05-2004, 09:31 PM
62511-62535
62511 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:04am
Subject: RE: High Tech scavenger hunt article.
I am glad to hear that Jean's first response was simply "poorly written sarcasm."
For me, that restores some faith in our other public land use neighbors.
TC!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Hagan [mailto:kyle@spiderfirewall.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:19 PM
To: Stu Olson; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] High Tech scavenger hunt article.
Stu,
This was the reply to your email.... I told them I would forward it to you.
Apparently you missed my second message where I apologized for my perhaps poorly written sarcasm. I certainly was not blaming the ATV community for the damage either. I was only trying to show how the few can ruin it for the many, regardless of the activity. I agree that finger pointing and name calling will get us nowhere. Therefore I will not over react to your rather pointed email at me. We all must take responsibity for ourselves, as well as for those who act with disregard to laws and respect of public lands. I always try to leave an area as clean or better than when I arrived, whether hiking, 4x4ing, biking, backpacking, whatever. I apologize again for any offense caused. Please have the decency to forward this to your list serve as well.
Jean
roadrunners
Kyle
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'Kyle Hagan' ; 'AzVJC Website'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:58 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] High Tech scavenger hunt article.
While I think I understand what Jean (roadrunners?) may be trying to say, she does, IMHO, need to be careful about how she states her complaint.
While I am certainly an off-road enthusiast, I am not a geocacher. As such, if people are driving quads and 4x4s to geoache locations and causing problems, then it is the geocachers that are doing it….not the off-road enthusiast. (DUH!)
Now…the above statement is about as stupid as the one that Jean (roadrunners?) wrote, IMO. She is, in my opinion, a dangerous element when it comes to these types of discussions. Finger pointing is NOT the way to solve the problem. Off-road enthusiasts AND geocachers BOTH depend on public access to public land. Without it, we are both without a place to recreate (unless you want to geocache or ramp ricers in the city).
So….my advice to dear Jean (roadrunners?) would be to chill out a bit and stop trying to alienate those that may very well be her best ally in this fight to keep our public lands open and accessible.
Yes….both off-road enthusiasts and geocachers share a common element….the moron that drives around on public land with complete disregard for the land or the laws…..and as she said…the ones that toss fast food wrappers out the window on I-17 (at least she got one thing correct). Once Jean (roadrunners?) figures that out, she will, IMO, not come off as the finger-pointing idiot she appears to be now.
She has yet to figure out that what she is doing is exactly what the greenie folks want….divide the opposition into small in-fighting fractured segments and then pick them off, one at a time. As the old saying goes, “United we stand, divided we fall”. I wish someone would explain this to Jean (roadrunners?) before she helps us all to death.
Timber Chucker!
p.s. Kyle, if you want to filter this back towards the source of your original post, please feel free to do so. It will take a ton of talking to convince me that I am wrong on this subject.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Hagan [mailto:Kyle@spiderfirewall.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:38 PM
To: 'AzVJC Website'
Subject: [az_vjc] High Tech scavenger hunt article.
I thought the list might be interested in what some of the people on AzGeocaching.com is responding about this article:
Perhaps the article should have been written about ATVs and 4x4s. We have noticed that there is a definite correlation in the amount of trash and the vehicle access. When you are in areas where you must travel by foot, there is a very small amount of trash. But when you are in areas where vehicles can go, there are always bud light cans by the case and a bunch of other crap one can only wonder why someone took the trouble to haul it way out there, unless it was to use it for target practice and leave it behind. We say TRASHY PEOPLE HAVE TRASHY WAYS. These are the same idiots who throw fast food wrappers out the window on I-17 thinking "someone" else will pick it up. I offer the following rewrite of the article:
An off road vehicle rampage has caused a panic among authorites who say the offroaders are destroying archaelogical sites around the state. Using jeeps and ATVs the slobs can literally drive right to more than 600 sites throughout arizona and vandalize artifacts and throw trash out the window....
Jean
roadrunners
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62512 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:04am
Subject: RE: AZ Republic Geocache Article
Larry,
Thanks for the note. There are always bad apples in every barrel and those
that are causing problems with 4x4s or ATVs in the geocaching sport are
probably the same ones that rip up the Coves and trash the Table Mesa or
White Tanks areas too. (If they are not one in the same, they are in the
same category.)
From another post, I saw that Jean stated her post was an attempt at
sarcasm. I obviously missed that fine point (as did some others from what
you wrote). So be it. Maybe she will think twice before trying that
approach again. I certainly do sympathize with her about concerning the
dislike for people who disrepect the land.
Thanks for the note and the additional info. It helped clear up the issue
quite a bit.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Farquhar, Larry [mailto:larry.farquhar@i...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 5:39 AM
To: 'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] AZ Republic Geocache Article
Stu (and all);
I've been an inactive member of the AZVJC for the past couple years. I still
lurk on the list, as I constantly learn from you. I know - it's been awhile
since I've been on a trail run. Mainly, because I got VERY involved in
Geocaching.
First, I (and all geocachers) greatly appreciate the support you've shown
and your responses to the AZ Republic. Many of us geocacher's are also avid
and responsible 4-wheelers. So we do have much in common. Am I a Jeeper or a
Geocacher? I'm both.
Second, please don't take Jean's (roadrunners) message to strongly. She's
only one person who dislikes any ATV or 4-wheeler who disrespects the land,
as do many of us Jeepers. Many people on the geocache Email list have
expressed to Jean their dislike for her Email, and she's apologized to the
geocache list. I understand her intent wasn't to slam all ATV and
4-wheelers, but specifically those few giving us all a bad name.
Thanks again for your continued support of geocaching, as it's in both of
our best interests. I'm sure I'll see you on the trails again soon (as long
as Joey's not leading).
Larry Farquhar
Yellow '02 TJ (original banana bunch member)
Geocaching Team "Wyle E"
www-happy-wanderers.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62513 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:05am
Subject: RE: AZ Republic Geocache Article
or at least learn to use the "Mark-Up Language" tags "<sarcasm></sarcasm>"
:D
-----Original Message-----
From another post, I saw that Jean stated her post was an attempt at
sarcasm. I obviously missed that fine point (as did some others from what
you wrote). So be it. Maybe she will think twice before trying that
approach again.
62514 From: <jeepthingtj2000@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:09am
Subject: Re: money to burn on jeep stuff
I couldnt agree with you more gunslinger!!
62515 From: pebble007 <jawooten@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:10am
Subject: Burnin money on the jeep
Hello all,
Thanks for all the input on next stepping my jeep. I have
narrowed it down to a couple of choices/packages:
Behind door #1
Long arm upgrade kit (no springs, shocks, upper front control arms)
1200.00
upper arms 225.00
33" tires 900.00
Then at a later date pick up 4.5 - 5.5 springs, xduty trac bar and
bracket (front and rear), extended brake lines and regear.
Advantages - LONG ARM KIT, can upgrade the parts as nessecary
Disadvantages - no additional lift, more cost down the line to
complete the kit, no strength added to rear axle for off road
performance.
Behind door #2
RE 4.5 super flex kit 850.00
super 35 kit with ox locker 1100.00
33 - 35" tires 900.00
Advantages - complete lift ready to go up to 35" tires (may need a
set of spacers), stronger axle with ox locker to run the larger tires
and not have to join the Arizona Axle Breaker club (or at least
reduce this risk), can upgrade to the long arm kit in a year if I am
not satisfied with the on road ride. With 3.73 gears should be able
to go up to 4.56 and not have to change the carrier (please correct
me if I am wrong on this).
Disadvantages - NO LONG ARM KIT (on road ride may not be quite where
I want it but should be pretty close).
So let me know what you guys and gals think of the 2 options, am I
missing anything that is a must have right away with either of these
options that will increase the price.
Thanks for the info,
Josh Wooten
99 TJ
62516 From: Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:13am
Subject: Crown King Question
This will be my 1st ride with the club since I moved to AZ.
What my question is, I Like to ride without my doors, will the trip takeme
through and deep water
that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im running 33's with 2in spacers
Kyle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; <pats@d...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for Crown King
> Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through Phoenix. You will be taking
> State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of Bell Road. Once you get to
> SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go right (BTW at this point
the
> Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of the road). You will
quickly
> come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are still on SR74 it is about
8
> miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off main entry also called
> Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now headed north just follow
> this road until it turns to a dirt road and make a left you are there. HTH
> Jim F
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
62517 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:20am
Subject: Re: Crown King Question
You won't have any problem with water. There will be
a lot of dust out there, though.
--- Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...> wrote:
> This will be my 1st ride with the club since I
> moved to AZ.
>
> What my question is, I Like to ride without my
> doors, will the trip takeme
> through and deep water
> that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im
> running 33's with 2in spacers
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> <pats@d...>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for
> Crown King
>
>
> > Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through
> Phoenix. You will be taking
> > State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of
> Bell Road. Once you get to
> > SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go
> right (BTW at this point
> the
> > Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of
> the road). You will
> quickly
> > come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are
> still on SR74 it is about
> 8
> > miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off
> main entry also called
> > Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now
> headed north just follow
> > this road until it turns to a dirt road and make a
> left you are there. HTH
> > Jim F
> >
> > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me
> as a member. "Groucho
> > Marx"
> > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > http://www.rockrats.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
S. Jayke Thorpe
__________________________________________________
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62518 From: pebble007 <jawooten@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:21am
Subject: OT (FS) Quad and Trailer
For Sale
Polaris 700 Twin 4x4 quad
-independant front and rear suspension
-on demand four wheel drive
-Fully automatic with reverse and override
Brand new (2miles) never offroad. Biggest baddest utility quad on
the market that I won in a sales contest. Racks carry 340lbs.
Perfect for you hunters out there. Tows up to 1500lbs and has 28"
tires on it.
Price also includes 15X8 (hitch to tail) trailer with fuel rack and
storage box, brand new ( I am still waiting for the trailer to be
delivered).
PRICE: $8000.00 firm for both
Jeep related: Great for towing behind your jeep to your favorite
camping/hunting spots. Also I will get to buy all kinds of goodies
for my jeep.
Contact: Josh Wooten email: jawooten@c... Cell phone: 602-571-9763
Thanks,
Josh Wooten
62519 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:27am
Subject: Re: Crown King Question
In fact, you will be lucky to "see" water up there
since it has been so dry.
--- Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...> wrote:
> You won't have any problem with water. There will
> be
> a lot of dust out there, though.
>
> --- Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...> wrote:
> > This will be my 1st ride with the club since I
> > moved to AZ.
> >
> > What my question is, I Like to ride without my
> > doors, will the trip takeme
> > through and deep water
> > that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im
> > running 33's with 2in spacers
> >
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <pats@d...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for
> > Crown King
> >
> >
> > > Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through
> > Phoenix. You will be taking
> > > State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of
> > Bell Road. Once you get to
> > > SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go
> > right (BTW at this point
> > the
> > > Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of
> > the road). You will
> > quickly
> > > come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are
> > still on SR74 it is about
> > 8
> > > miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off
> > main entry also called
> > > Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now
> > headed north just follow
> > > this road until it turns to a dirt road and make
> a
> > left you are there. HTH
> > > Jim F
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have
> me
> > as a member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > >
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> S. Jayke Thorpe
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
S. Jayke Thorpe
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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62520 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:32am
Subject: Finally!!!
The search and TAG was successful today.
I found a Green YJ License plate KKJ-838. It was at the Goodyear store at Chandler and Kyrene, a guy named "Spencer".
Chris Krieg You have not driven your Jeep to work today, or you would have been IT.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com
62521 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:49am
Subject: CK Anv Run Camping?
Is anyone camping out for the night and heading back down by way of
Lake Pleasant the next day? I am running up with the morning turkey
creek crowd and am planning on staying the night, then going back
down the trail the next morning. I camped out last year and had a
lot of fun, and wanted to do it again this year. -Rob
62522 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:50am
Subject: Re: Bearing retainer nut
Just FYI to James:
You can pick one up for your D44 at any PepBoys. They run about $12.00. Well
worth owning your own. I've taken (and I'm sure others will echo this) my hubs
apart so many times, I can't even keep track. Has been well worth picking one
up.
BTW, they have 2 different kinds (I think) for a D44. You most likely have the
one that has 4 notches in it. If not, then you need the other one that is like
a D30 where it is a regular nut. They have both at PepBoys.
Just thought I would mention it.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
62523 From: my1stjeep <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:53am
Subject: Re: [TR] Raw Deal (Lower) - Friday, August 9, 2002
7:00a or 7:00p?
Chris
"AzA"---------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
>
62524 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:57am
Subject: RE: CK Anv Run Camping?
Rob,
There are a few planning on camping including myself.
Not sure about the run down the next morning though. I will be doing the
wash board road back Sunday morning.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: g_rob_williams [mailto:g_rob_williams@y...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 11:50 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] CK Anv Run Camping?
Is anyone camping out for the night and heading back down by way of
Lake Pleasant the next day? I am running up with the morning turkey
creek crowd and am planning on staying the night, then going back
down the trail the next morning. I camped out last year and had a
lot of fun, and wanted to do it again this year. -Rob
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62525 From: Brad Gailey <dunefever1@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 0:20pm
Subject: Re: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
Stu,
This is outstanding. Great job
Brad
--- Stu Olson <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Ms. Leonard,
>
> I read your "A high-tech scavenger hunt" article in
> today's newspaper.
> Although I am not a "geocacher", I am aware of the
> popularity it has gained
> over the past years. With the improvements in GPS
> receivers and their drop
> in price, it is certainly easy to be the proud owner
> of one of these little
> beauties.
>
> One item was incorrectly reported in your article.
> You stated (on page A2)
> that "Geocaching began in May 2000 when the Clinton
> administration
> unscrambled the electronic signals of the
> government-owned global
> positioning sytem, allowing civilians to use devices
> to steer cars or find
> missing hikers with pinpoint accuracy." While it is
> true that geocaching
> may very well have started in May, 2000, it was not
> because of any actions
> taken by the Clinton Administration. On or about
> May 1, 2002, then
> President Clinton lifted the requirement that caused
> the intentional
> degradation in the accuracy of the GPS signal.
> Neither he nor his
> administration can be given any kind of credit for
> making the GPS technology
> available to the civilian population and its
> subsequent use for steering
> cars or finding lost hikers. I was using a consumer
> grade GPS receiver long
> before May 1, 2000. As to your comment about it
> being able to steer a
> car....no...no...no! Would you feel confident in a
> car with a "steering
> system" that could guide your vehicle to within an
> accuracy of 6 to 20 feet?
> (those are your numbers, not mine) Thank you but
> no....I prefer to "steer"
> my vehicle with more precision than that. I am
> afraid that a 6 to 20 foot
> error would very well put me into the path of
> dangerous oncoming traffic.
> But, enough about the basics of GPS reception. I
> need to get to the point
> of this correspondence.
>
> As an environmentalist that fully enjoys virtually
> everything our public
> lands have to offer, I am saddened to hear that some
> irresponsible people
> are leaving their trash behind, making new trails,
> and even picking up
> native artifacts they find in a geocache area. I
> wonder how many of these
> people are familiar with the laws concerning
> removing an item from an
> archaeological site? I can tell you, from first
> hand experience, that many
> people have no idea that driving across the desert
> or up a big hill, where
> there is no trail, is unlawful in most of Arizona.
> I can speak to people
> leaving their trash behind....any road trip down
> I-10 or I-17 will yield
> supporting evidence that people certainly do litter.
>
> The main point I found quite interesting is the
> apparent blame that your
> article places on those people that are
> participating in the geocaching
> sport (I guess we can call it a sport?)
>
> Let's first look at the facts you stated in the
> article:
>
> 1. There are at least 18 known Arizona caches
> listed on the Internet that
> are on or near archaeological sites. (you didn't
> mention how many were
> actually on a site)
>
> 2. There are more than 10,900 known archaeological
> sites in Maricopa
> County.
>
> 3. There are more than 50,400 archaeological sites
> in Arizona, not
> including those on Tribal lands.
>
> 4. You stated that most of the archaeological
> locations have been kept
> secret for years, and officials have even required a
> new site steward to
> sign a confidentiality agreement.
>
>
> So...let me see if I understand what you are really
> saying.
>
> 1. 0.0357143% of the geocache sites are located on
> or near an
> archaeological site in this state.
>
> 2. Virtually no one, except the trusted site
> stewards and specific land
> management officials, no where the archaeological
> sites are.....and we have
> one or two site stewards (that you interviewed) that
> are upset because three
> and one half hundreths of just one percent of the
> total geocache sites in
> Arizona happen to be put on these secret
> archaeological sites.
>
> It is sad that the geocachers are being held up as
> those that are ruining
> our archaeological sites but yet we won't tell them
> where the sites are so
> they wouldn't accidentally put their cache "at or
> near" an archaeological
> site. I realize this might very well be a damned if
> you do, damned if you
> don't kind of situation, but please apply some
> common sense here. Your
> article indicates that many of the Arizona geocaches
> are in remote
> locations....places that are difficult to get to.
> So, we then say shame on
> the geocachers for picking a challenging location to
> hide their
> cache.....and when it just happens to be on a secret
> archaeological site
> that no one told them about.....and it is their
> fault? You've got to be
> kidding, right?
>
> Maybe it is not quite as bad as I am led to believe?
> Perhaps another way to
> look at it is:
>
> 1. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of our
> teenage population didn't
> complete high school?
>
> 2. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of the
> people driving through a
> Phoenix intersection ran the red light?
>
> I do commend you for reporting that Mr. Brian Cluff,
> a person who helps run
> AZgeocaching.com, has not been contacted or notified
> about the apparent
> problem that is occuring at or near the secret
> archaeological sites.
> However, it is sad that the amount of text you
> devoted to Mr. Cluff is
> approximately 0.0357143% of your article. None the
> less....I am certain
> that all reading it will in no way be biased by
> this.
>
> Now that you have identified this problem, what are
> the paper's plans to
> help correct it? From what was written, it appears
> that a strong push
> towards educating those that enjoy geocaching would
> certainly go a long way
> in correcting this problem. Perhaps some public
> awareness commercials on
> the local TV stations (maybe even radio too) would
> make more aware of their
> inapropriate actions. Remeber, we have people
> randomly hiding little
> tuperware containers of goodies on secret
> archaeological sites that they
> have no knowledge of.
>
> I look forward to your next article that outlines
> the plans that will be
> implemented to help curb this problem.
>
> King Regards,
>
> Stu Olson
> Phoenix
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=== message truncated ===
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62526 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 0:52pm
Subject: RE: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
I finished my phone conversation with Christina Leonard about an hour ago.
I am happy to say that it went much better than I thought it might. I do
believe that she understands the problem that the geocachers and off-roaders
share.....a percentage of the population that shows no respect for the land
they recreate on. While somewhat off topic from her article, we spoke about
the cleanups that AZVJC has done at the Coves, WhiteTank Mountains, etc. and
the fact that we (the club members) really do worry about loosing access to
public lands because of some irresponsible individuals that are NOT
representative of the off-road (or geocaching) community.
We also spoke about the site stewards and the fact that there are 18
geoaches located on or near the archaeological sites. Christina said she
too asked the stewards how it was that the geocachers, who have no knowledge
of where the 50,400 arachaeological sites are located, are suppose to avoid
accidentally placing a cache on a piece of land that is a site. She also
stated that until one actually knows what signs to look for, you have no
idea you are on a site. She was shown a pottery shard at a archaeological
site and didn't recognize that it was a shard. When she commented that the
18 sites is a very small number compared to the 50,400 in the state, they
told her "One is too many". In my opinion, this zero tolerance thing is
going to grow into a bigger issue as time goes on.
I fully believe Christina was attempting to explain the Catch-22 situation
that the geoachers are caught in (don't put your stuff on an archaeological
site...but we won't tell you where that may be) and the fact that these site
stewards are just becoming aware of the increased traffic (and trash) that
their once secret sites are now accidentally getting.
While the article came across to me as being biased against the geocachers,
I do not believe it was intended to be that way. My assumption is that the
site stewards, being all to much like the greenies we see at land use
meetings, made it seem a hundred times worse than it actually was (their
quotes dripping with sympathy, IMO).
Although I did not mention it to her, I wish Christina would have hooked up
with a local geocacher (perhaps Mr. Cluff from the article?) and experienced
the sport the way it was meant to be done. For me, that would have gone a
LONG way to show she was neutral on this issue. From my personal
expereince, until one has a chance to ride in a built up Jeep that is
tackling a tough trail, that person doesn't have any idea about our off-road
sport. I would imagine that geocaching must be very much the same way.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
62527 From: bermboy2000 <bermboy@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Crown King head count
I figured you might want to see it, as you werent there for the last
time he went upside down;P
Turtle! Turtle! LOL
Scott Maiden
93 YJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> Why would you want to see him play with his turtle again? no one
> would want to see that, not even once! :)
>
>
> Mike A.
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...> wrote:
> > Sweet! I might get to see him play turtle again!!
> >
> > Scott Maiden
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "my1stjeep" <my1stjeep@e...> wrote:
> > > Uh oh, I now see a rush to run on the 6:00am with Hackle.
> > >
> > > Sharky(always looking to make something happen) is going on
that
> > > one...<grin>
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > "AzA"-----------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > > > Yeah but Joey is leading it??? Did anything good ever happen
> that
> > > was lead
> > > > by a Joey??? :) Jim F. aka Hackle
> > > >
> > > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > > member. "Groucho
> > > > Marx"
> > > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:12 PM
> > > > To: 'Az_Vjc'
> > > > Cc: 'Hackle'
> > > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Crown King head count
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Everyone don't listen to Hackle. The early Turkey Creek run
> will
> > > be much
> > > > more interesting!
> > > > Joey K
> > > > 93YJ
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 2:54 PM
> > > > To: Az_Vjc
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Crown King head count
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok by my count we have 79 signed up on the main page.
I
> > > clicked
> > > > on all of them then went to the trips separately and found 27
> > that
> > > were
> > > > not high lighted. So my count for today is 106 :) Looks like
a
> > lot
> > > of
> > > > fun. Glad to see so many members going with us. Jim F. BTW
the
> > > early
> > > > bird run will be the best :O
> > > >
> > > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > > member. "Groucho
> > > > Marx" Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62528 From: Jim Hughes <jhughes@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:37pm
Subject: Re: Crown King Question
Thunder Storm may be a possibility
>>> Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...> 08/08/02 11:27AM >>>
In fact, you will be lucky to "see" water up there
since it has been so dry.
--- Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...> wrote:
> You won't have any problem with water. There will
> be
> a lot of dust out there, though.
>
> --- Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...> wrote:
> > This will be my 1st ride with the club since I
> > moved to AZ.
> >
> > What my question is, I Like to ride without my
> > doors, will the trip takeme
> > through and deep water
> > that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im
> > running 33's with 2in spacers
> >
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <pats@d...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for
> > Crown King
> >
> >
> > > Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through
> > Phoenix. You will be taking
> > > State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of
> > Bell Road. Once you get to
> > > SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go
> > right (BTW at this point
> > the
> > > Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of
> > the road). You will
> > quickly
> > > come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are
> > still on SR74 it is about
> > 8
> > > miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off
> > main entry also called
> > > Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now
> > headed north just follow
> > > this road until it turns to a dirt road and make
> a
> > left you are there. HTH
> > > Jim F
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have
> me
> > as a member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > >
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> S. Jayke Thorpe
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
S. Jayke Thorpe
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62529 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:41pm
Subject: FW: Keep up the great work
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Wood [mailto:wood@m...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 PM
To: Webmaster@A...
Subject: Keep up the great work
Hi,
I felt that I should drop you an e-mail and let you know that I just spent
some time looking at your webpages. I found you thanks to the discussion
that has been going on about geocaching and 4 wheeling over on the
azgeocaching.com's listserv. I am an active geocacher and a 4
wheeler. While not a jeep owner, I drive a 1968 FJ-40 Land Cruiser.
I just wanted to let you know that I think you guys are doing a hell of a
job here in Arizona.
Scott Wood
www.myblueheaven.com
62530 From: az_squarelights <squarelights@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Finally!!!
hey joe how long did you have it for? spencer must of not had it
long. he wanted me to go and have my oil changed at turbo rx for a
good price, so i did. when i came back to get my jeep it was
tagged. i should of figured he had something up his sleeve. anyway
i got it now, and im on the look out ;)
nick l. 93 yj soa
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> The search and TAG was successful today.
>
> I found a Green YJ License plate KKJ-838. It was at the Goodyear
store at Chandler and Kyrene, a guy named "Spencer".
>
> Chris Krieg You have not driven your Jeep to work today, or you
would have been IT.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
62531 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 9:51am
Subject: Re: [FS] got free tires?
I have three BFG AT's here at my house that I'm not using. They're 32's and
in fairly good condition. They still have tread.
Anthony Celaya
62532 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:52pm
Subject: [FS] Miscellaneous jeep parts
Price: Free!! Free!!
Contact: 623-776-9913, or 623-330-8987
Have d44 narrow trac axle
d30 complete from disc calipers in
d35 complete
hood and fenders for cj5
tube bumpers (rear, 1 with hitch)
miscelaneous other small suspension parts.
Will toss next monday. come and get it!!!!
Michael Beckham
62533 From: roy95yj <roy95yj@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 2:08pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Miscellaneous jeep parts
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
> Mike,
please call me
480-693-2346 or 602-614-7982
thanks
Roy
62534 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 2:10pm
Subject: [FS] YJ Hard Half Doors
Price: $475
Contact: kwj2@dana.ucc.nau.edu
Wrangler YJ hard steel half doors. White paint with tan interior panels. Doors in good condition with a few small dings. Driver's side interior panel has speaker hole, but door itself is uncut.
Kevin Jackson
62535 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 2:12pm
Subject: [FS] Hard Half Doors
Price: $475 pair
Contact: kwj2@dana.ucc.nau.edu
Wrangler YJ hard steel half doors. White paint with tan interior panels. Doors in good condition with a few small dings. Driver's side interior panel has speaker hole, but door itself is uncut.
Kevin Jackson
62511 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:04am
Subject: RE: High Tech scavenger hunt article.
I am glad to hear that Jean's first response was simply "poorly written sarcasm."
For me, that restores some faith in our other public land use neighbors.
TC!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Hagan [mailto:kyle@spiderfirewall.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:19 PM
To: Stu Olson; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] High Tech scavenger hunt article.
Stu,
This was the reply to your email.... I told them I would forward it to you.
Apparently you missed my second message where I apologized for my perhaps poorly written sarcasm. I certainly was not blaming the ATV community for the damage either. I was only trying to show how the few can ruin it for the many, regardless of the activity. I agree that finger pointing and name calling will get us nowhere. Therefore I will not over react to your rather pointed email at me. We all must take responsibity for ourselves, as well as for those who act with disregard to laws and respect of public lands. I always try to leave an area as clean or better than when I arrived, whether hiking, 4x4ing, biking, backpacking, whatever. I apologize again for any offense caused. Please have the decency to forward this to your list serve as well.
Jean
roadrunners
Kyle
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'Kyle Hagan' ; 'AzVJC Website'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:58 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] High Tech scavenger hunt article.
While I think I understand what Jean (roadrunners?) may be trying to say, she does, IMHO, need to be careful about how she states her complaint.
While I am certainly an off-road enthusiast, I am not a geocacher. As such, if people are driving quads and 4x4s to geoache locations and causing problems, then it is the geocachers that are doing it….not the off-road enthusiast. (DUH!)
Now…the above statement is about as stupid as the one that Jean (roadrunners?) wrote, IMO. She is, in my opinion, a dangerous element when it comes to these types of discussions. Finger pointing is NOT the way to solve the problem. Off-road enthusiasts AND geocachers BOTH depend on public access to public land. Without it, we are both without a place to recreate (unless you want to geocache or ramp ricers in the city).
So….my advice to dear Jean (roadrunners?) would be to chill out a bit and stop trying to alienate those that may very well be her best ally in this fight to keep our public lands open and accessible.
Yes….both off-road enthusiasts and geocachers share a common element….the moron that drives around on public land with complete disregard for the land or the laws…..and as she said…the ones that toss fast food wrappers out the window on I-17 (at least she got one thing correct). Once Jean (roadrunners?) figures that out, she will, IMO, not come off as the finger-pointing idiot she appears to be now.
She has yet to figure out that what she is doing is exactly what the greenie folks want….divide the opposition into small in-fighting fractured segments and then pick them off, one at a time. As the old saying goes, “United we stand, divided we fall”. I wish someone would explain this to Jean (roadrunners?) before she helps us all to death.
Timber Chucker!
p.s. Kyle, if you want to filter this back towards the source of your original post, please feel free to do so. It will take a ton of talking to convince me that I am wrong on this subject.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Hagan [mailto:Kyle@spiderfirewall.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:38 PM
To: 'AzVJC Website'
Subject: [az_vjc] High Tech scavenger hunt article.
I thought the list might be interested in what some of the people on AzGeocaching.com is responding about this article:
Perhaps the article should have been written about ATVs and 4x4s. We have noticed that there is a definite correlation in the amount of trash and the vehicle access. When you are in areas where you must travel by foot, there is a very small amount of trash. But when you are in areas where vehicles can go, there are always bud light cans by the case and a bunch of other crap one can only wonder why someone took the trouble to haul it way out there, unless it was to use it for target practice and leave it behind. We say TRASHY PEOPLE HAVE TRASHY WAYS. These are the same idiots who throw fast food wrappers out the window on I-17 thinking "someone" else will pick it up. I offer the following rewrite of the article:
An off road vehicle rampage has caused a panic among authorites who say the offroaders are destroying archaelogical sites around the state. Using jeeps and ATVs the slobs can literally drive right to more than 600 sites throughout arizona and vandalize artifacts and throw trash out the window....
Jean
roadrunners
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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62512 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:04am
Subject: RE: AZ Republic Geocache Article
Larry,
Thanks for the note. There are always bad apples in every barrel and those
that are causing problems with 4x4s or ATVs in the geocaching sport are
probably the same ones that rip up the Coves and trash the Table Mesa or
White Tanks areas too. (If they are not one in the same, they are in the
same category.)
From another post, I saw that Jean stated her post was an attempt at
sarcasm. I obviously missed that fine point (as did some others from what
you wrote). So be it. Maybe she will think twice before trying that
approach again. I certainly do sympathize with her about concerning the
dislike for people who disrepect the land.
Thanks for the note and the additional info. It helped clear up the issue
quite a bit.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Farquhar, Larry [mailto:larry.farquhar@i...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 5:39 AM
To: 'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] AZ Republic Geocache Article
Stu (and all);
I've been an inactive member of the AZVJC for the past couple years. I still
lurk on the list, as I constantly learn from you. I know - it's been awhile
since I've been on a trail run. Mainly, because I got VERY involved in
Geocaching.
First, I (and all geocachers) greatly appreciate the support you've shown
and your responses to the AZ Republic. Many of us geocacher's are also avid
and responsible 4-wheelers. So we do have much in common. Am I a Jeeper or a
Geocacher? I'm both.
Second, please don't take Jean's (roadrunners) message to strongly. She's
only one person who dislikes any ATV or 4-wheeler who disrespects the land,
as do many of us Jeepers. Many people on the geocache Email list have
expressed to Jean their dislike for her Email, and she's apologized to the
geocache list. I understand her intent wasn't to slam all ATV and
4-wheelers, but specifically those few giving us all a bad name.
Thanks again for your continued support of geocaching, as it's in both of
our best interests. I'm sure I'll see you on the trails again soon (as long
as Joey's not leading).
Larry Farquhar
Yellow '02 TJ (original banana bunch member)
Geocaching Team "Wyle E"
www-happy-wanderers.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62513 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:05am
Subject: RE: AZ Republic Geocache Article
or at least learn to use the "Mark-Up Language" tags "<sarcasm></sarcasm>"
:D
-----Original Message-----
From another post, I saw that Jean stated her post was an attempt at
sarcasm. I obviously missed that fine point (as did some others from what
you wrote). So be it. Maybe she will think twice before trying that
approach again.
62514 From: <jeepthingtj2000@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 7:09am
Subject: Re: money to burn on jeep stuff
I couldnt agree with you more gunslinger!!
62515 From: pebble007 <jawooten@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:10am
Subject: Burnin money on the jeep
Hello all,
Thanks for all the input on next stepping my jeep. I have
narrowed it down to a couple of choices/packages:
Behind door #1
Long arm upgrade kit (no springs, shocks, upper front control arms)
1200.00
upper arms 225.00
33" tires 900.00
Then at a later date pick up 4.5 - 5.5 springs, xduty trac bar and
bracket (front and rear), extended brake lines and regear.
Advantages - LONG ARM KIT, can upgrade the parts as nessecary
Disadvantages - no additional lift, more cost down the line to
complete the kit, no strength added to rear axle for off road
performance.
Behind door #2
RE 4.5 super flex kit 850.00
super 35 kit with ox locker 1100.00
33 - 35" tires 900.00
Advantages - complete lift ready to go up to 35" tires (may need a
set of spacers), stronger axle with ox locker to run the larger tires
and not have to join the Arizona Axle Breaker club (or at least
reduce this risk), can upgrade to the long arm kit in a year if I am
not satisfied with the on road ride. With 3.73 gears should be able
to go up to 4.56 and not have to change the carrier (please correct
me if I am wrong on this).
Disadvantages - NO LONG ARM KIT (on road ride may not be quite where
I want it but should be pretty close).
So let me know what you guys and gals think of the 2 options, am I
missing anything that is a must have right away with either of these
options that will increase the price.
Thanks for the info,
Josh Wooten
99 TJ
62516 From: Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:13am
Subject: Crown King Question
This will be my 1st ride with the club since I moved to AZ.
What my question is, I Like to ride without my doors, will the trip takeme
through and deep water
that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im running 33's with 2in spacers
Kyle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; <pats@d...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for Crown King
> Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through Phoenix. You will be taking
> State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of Bell Road. Once you get to
> SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go right (BTW at this point
the
> Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of the road). You will
quickly
> come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are still on SR74 it is about
8
> miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off main entry also called
> Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now headed north just follow
> this road until it turns to a dirt road and make a left you are there. HTH
> Jim F
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
62517 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:20am
Subject: Re: Crown King Question
You won't have any problem with water. There will be
a lot of dust out there, though.
--- Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...> wrote:
> This will be my 1st ride with the club since I
> moved to AZ.
>
> What my question is, I Like to ride without my
> doors, will the trip takeme
> through and deep water
> that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im
> running 33's with 2in spacers
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> <pats@d...>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for
> Crown King
>
>
> > Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through
> Phoenix. You will be taking
> > State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of
> Bell Road. Once you get to
> > SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go
> right (BTW at this point
> the
> > Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of
> the road). You will
> quickly
> > come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are
> still on SR74 it is about
> 8
> > miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off
> main entry also called
> > Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now
> headed north just follow
> > this road until it turns to a dirt road and make a
> left you are there. HTH
> > Jim F
> >
> > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me
> as a member. "Groucho
> > Marx"
> > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > http://www.rockrats.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
S. Jayke Thorpe
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
62518 From: pebble007 <jawooten@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:21am
Subject: OT (FS) Quad and Trailer
For Sale
Polaris 700 Twin 4x4 quad
-independant front and rear suspension
-on demand four wheel drive
-Fully automatic with reverse and override
Brand new (2miles) never offroad. Biggest baddest utility quad on
the market that I won in a sales contest. Racks carry 340lbs.
Perfect for you hunters out there. Tows up to 1500lbs and has 28"
tires on it.
Price also includes 15X8 (hitch to tail) trailer with fuel rack and
storage box, brand new ( I am still waiting for the trailer to be
delivered).
PRICE: $8000.00 firm for both
Jeep related: Great for towing behind your jeep to your favorite
camping/hunting spots. Also I will get to buy all kinds of goodies
for my jeep.
Contact: Josh Wooten email: jawooten@c... Cell phone: 602-571-9763
Thanks,
Josh Wooten
62519 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:27am
Subject: Re: Crown King Question
In fact, you will be lucky to "see" water up there
since it has been so dry.
--- Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...> wrote:
> You won't have any problem with water. There will
> be
> a lot of dust out there, though.
>
> --- Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...> wrote:
> > This will be my 1st ride with the club since I
> > moved to AZ.
> >
> > What my question is, I Like to ride without my
> > doors, will the trip takeme
> > through and deep water
> > that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im
> > running 33's with 2in spacers
> >
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <pats@d...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for
> > Crown King
> >
> >
> > > Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through
> > Phoenix. You will be taking
> > > State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of
> > Bell Road. Once you get to
> > > SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go
> > right (BTW at this point
> > the
> > > Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of
> > the road). You will
> > quickly
> > > come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are
> > still on SR74 it is about
> > 8
> > > miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off
> > main entry also called
> > > Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now
> > headed north just follow
> > > this road until it turns to a dirt road and make
> a
> > left you are there. HTH
> > > Jim F
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have
> me
> > as a member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > >
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> S. Jayke Thorpe
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
S. Jayke Thorpe
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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62520 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:32am
Subject: Finally!!!
The search and TAG was successful today.
I found a Green YJ License plate KKJ-838. It was at the Goodyear store at Chandler and Kyrene, a guy named "Spencer".
Chris Krieg You have not driven your Jeep to work today, or you would have been IT.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com
62521 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:49am
Subject: CK Anv Run Camping?
Is anyone camping out for the night and heading back down by way of
Lake Pleasant the next day? I am running up with the morning turkey
creek crowd and am planning on staying the night, then going back
down the trail the next morning. I camped out last year and had a
lot of fun, and wanted to do it again this year. -Rob
62522 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:50am
Subject: Re: Bearing retainer nut
Just FYI to James:
You can pick one up for your D44 at any PepBoys. They run about $12.00. Well
worth owning your own. I've taken (and I'm sure others will echo this) my hubs
apart so many times, I can't even keep track. Has been well worth picking one
up.
BTW, they have 2 different kinds (I think) for a D44. You most likely have the
one that has 4 notches in it. If not, then you need the other one that is like
a D30 where it is a regular nut. They have both at PepBoys.
Just thought I would mention it.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
62523 From: my1stjeep <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:53am
Subject: Re: [TR] Raw Deal (Lower) - Friday, August 9, 2002
7:00a or 7:00p?
Chris
"AzA"---------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
>
62524 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:57am
Subject: RE: CK Anv Run Camping?
Rob,
There are a few planning on camping including myself.
Not sure about the run down the next morning though. I will be doing the
wash board road back Sunday morning.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: g_rob_williams [mailto:g_rob_williams@y...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 11:50 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] CK Anv Run Camping?
Is anyone camping out for the night and heading back down by way of
Lake Pleasant the next day? I am running up with the morning turkey
creek crowd and am planning on staying the night, then going back
down the trail the next morning. I camped out last year and had a
lot of fun, and wanted to do it again this year. -Rob
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62525 From: Brad Gailey <dunefever1@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 0:20pm
Subject: Re: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
Stu,
This is outstanding. Great job
Brad
--- Stu Olson <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Ms. Leonard,
>
> I read your "A high-tech scavenger hunt" article in
> today's newspaper.
> Although I am not a "geocacher", I am aware of the
> popularity it has gained
> over the past years. With the improvements in GPS
> receivers and their drop
> in price, it is certainly easy to be the proud owner
> of one of these little
> beauties.
>
> One item was incorrectly reported in your article.
> You stated (on page A2)
> that "Geocaching began in May 2000 when the Clinton
> administration
> unscrambled the electronic signals of the
> government-owned global
> positioning sytem, allowing civilians to use devices
> to steer cars or find
> missing hikers with pinpoint accuracy." While it is
> true that geocaching
> may very well have started in May, 2000, it was not
> because of any actions
> taken by the Clinton Administration. On or about
> May 1, 2002, then
> President Clinton lifted the requirement that caused
> the intentional
> degradation in the accuracy of the GPS signal.
> Neither he nor his
> administration can be given any kind of credit for
> making the GPS technology
> available to the civilian population and its
> subsequent use for steering
> cars or finding lost hikers. I was using a consumer
> grade GPS receiver long
> before May 1, 2000. As to your comment about it
> being able to steer a
> car....no...no...no! Would you feel confident in a
> car with a "steering
> system" that could guide your vehicle to within an
> accuracy of 6 to 20 feet?
> (those are your numbers, not mine) Thank you but
> no....I prefer to "steer"
> my vehicle with more precision than that. I am
> afraid that a 6 to 20 foot
> error would very well put me into the path of
> dangerous oncoming traffic.
> But, enough about the basics of GPS reception. I
> need to get to the point
> of this correspondence.
>
> As an environmentalist that fully enjoys virtually
> everything our public
> lands have to offer, I am saddened to hear that some
> irresponsible people
> are leaving their trash behind, making new trails,
> and even picking up
> native artifacts they find in a geocache area. I
> wonder how many of these
> people are familiar with the laws concerning
> removing an item from an
> archaeological site? I can tell you, from first
> hand experience, that many
> people have no idea that driving across the desert
> or up a big hill, where
> there is no trail, is unlawful in most of Arizona.
> I can speak to people
> leaving their trash behind....any road trip down
> I-10 or I-17 will yield
> supporting evidence that people certainly do litter.
>
> The main point I found quite interesting is the
> apparent blame that your
> article places on those people that are
> participating in the geocaching
> sport (I guess we can call it a sport?)
>
> Let's first look at the facts you stated in the
> article:
>
> 1. There are at least 18 known Arizona caches
> listed on the Internet that
> are on or near archaeological sites. (you didn't
> mention how many were
> actually on a site)
>
> 2. There are more than 10,900 known archaeological
> sites in Maricopa
> County.
>
> 3. There are more than 50,400 archaeological sites
> in Arizona, not
> including those on Tribal lands.
>
> 4. You stated that most of the archaeological
> locations have been kept
> secret for years, and officials have even required a
> new site steward to
> sign a confidentiality agreement.
>
>
> So...let me see if I understand what you are really
> saying.
>
> 1. 0.0357143% of the geocache sites are located on
> or near an
> archaeological site in this state.
>
> 2. Virtually no one, except the trusted site
> stewards and specific land
> management officials, no where the archaeological
> sites are.....and we have
> one or two site stewards (that you interviewed) that
> are upset because three
> and one half hundreths of just one percent of the
> total geocache sites in
> Arizona happen to be put on these secret
> archaeological sites.
>
> It is sad that the geocachers are being held up as
> those that are ruining
> our archaeological sites but yet we won't tell them
> where the sites are so
> they wouldn't accidentally put their cache "at or
> near" an archaeological
> site. I realize this might very well be a damned if
> you do, damned if you
> don't kind of situation, but please apply some
> common sense here. Your
> article indicates that many of the Arizona geocaches
> are in remote
> locations....places that are difficult to get to.
> So, we then say shame on
> the geocachers for picking a challenging location to
> hide their
> cache.....and when it just happens to be on a secret
> archaeological site
> that no one told them about.....and it is their
> fault? You've got to be
> kidding, right?
>
> Maybe it is not quite as bad as I am led to believe?
> Perhaps another way to
> look at it is:
>
> 1. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of our
> teenage population didn't
> complete high school?
>
> 2. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of the
> people driving through a
> Phoenix intersection ran the red light?
>
> I do commend you for reporting that Mr. Brian Cluff,
> a person who helps run
> AZgeocaching.com, has not been contacted or notified
> about the apparent
> problem that is occuring at or near the secret
> archaeological sites.
> However, it is sad that the amount of text you
> devoted to Mr. Cluff is
> approximately 0.0357143% of your article. None the
> less....I am certain
> that all reading it will in no way be biased by
> this.
>
> Now that you have identified this problem, what are
> the paper's plans to
> help correct it? From what was written, it appears
> that a strong push
> towards educating those that enjoy geocaching would
> certainly go a long way
> in correcting this problem. Perhaps some public
> awareness commercials on
> the local TV stations (maybe even radio too) would
> make more aware of their
> inapropriate actions. Remeber, we have people
> randomly hiding little
> tuperware containers of goodies on secret
> archaeological sites that they
> have no knowledge of.
>
> I look forward to your next article that outlines
> the plans that will be
> implemented to help curb this problem.
>
> King Regards,
>
> Stu Olson
> Phoenix
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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62526 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 0:52pm
Subject: RE: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
I finished my phone conversation with Christina Leonard about an hour ago.
I am happy to say that it went much better than I thought it might. I do
believe that she understands the problem that the geocachers and off-roaders
share.....a percentage of the population that shows no respect for the land
they recreate on. While somewhat off topic from her article, we spoke about
the cleanups that AZVJC has done at the Coves, WhiteTank Mountains, etc. and
the fact that we (the club members) really do worry about loosing access to
public lands because of some irresponsible individuals that are NOT
representative of the off-road (or geocaching) community.
We also spoke about the site stewards and the fact that there are 18
geoaches located on or near the archaeological sites. Christina said she
too asked the stewards how it was that the geocachers, who have no knowledge
of where the 50,400 arachaeological sites are located, are suppose to avoid
accidentally placing a cache on a piece of land that is a site. She also
stated that until one actually knows what signs to look for, you have no
idea you are on a site. She was shown a pottery shard at a archaeological
site and didn't recognize that it was a shard. When she commented that the
18 sites is a very small number compared to the 50,400 in the state, they
told her "One is too many". In my opinion, this zero tolerance thing is
going to grow into a bigger issue as time goes on.
I fully believe Christina was attempting to explain the Catch-22 situation
that the geoachers are caught in (don't put your stuff on an archaeological
site...but we won't tell you where that may be) and the fact that these site
stewards are just becoming aware of the increased traffic (and trash) that
their once secret sites are now accidentally getting.
While the article came across to me as being biased against the geocachers,
I do not believe it was intended to be that way. My assumption is that the
site stewards, being all to much like the greenies we see at land use
meetings, made it seem a hundred times worse than it actually was (their
quotes dripping with sympathy, IMO).
Although I did not mention it to her, I wish Christina would have hooked up
with a local geocacher (perhaps Mr. Cluff from the article?) and experienced
the sport the way it was meant to be done. For me, that would have gone a
LONG way to show she was neutral on this issue. From my personal
expereince, until one has a chance to ride in a built up Jeep that is
tackling a tough trail, that person doesn't have any idea about our off-road
sport. I would imagine that geocaching must be very much the same way.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
62527 From: bermboy2000 <bermboy@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Crown King head count
I figured you might want to see it, as you werent there for the last
time he went upside down;P
Turtle! Turtle! LOL
Scott Maiden
93 YJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> Why would you want to see him play with his turtle again? no one
> would want to see that, not even once! :)
>
>
> Mike A.
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...> wrote:
> > Sweet! I might get to see him play turtle again!!
> >
> > Scott Maiden
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "my1stjeep" <my1stjeep@e...> wrote:
> > > Uh oh, I now see a rush to run on the 6:00am with Hackle.
> > >
> > > Sharky(always looking to make something happen) is going on
that
> > > one...<grin>
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > "AzA"-----------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > > > Yeah but Joey is leading it??? Did anything good ever happen
> that
> > > was lead
> > > > by a Joey??? :) Jim F. aka Hackle
> > > >
> > > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > > member. "Groucho
> > > > Marx"
> > > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:12 PM
> > > > To: 'Az_Vjc'
> > > > Cc: 'Hackle'
> > > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Crown King head count
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Everyone don't listen to Hackle. The early Turkey Creek run
> will
> > > be much
> > > > more interesting!
> > > > Joey K
> > > > 93YJ
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 2:54 PM
> > > > To: Az_Vjc
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Crown King head count
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok by my count we have 79 signed up on the main page.
I
> > > clicked
> > > > on all of them then went to the trips separately and found 27
> > that
> > > were
> > > > not high lighted. So my count for today is 106 :) Looks like
a
> > lot
> > > of
> > > > fun. Glad to see so many members going with us. Jim F. BTW
the
> > > early
> > > > bird run will be the best :O
> > > >
> > > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> > > member. "Groucho
> > > > Marx" Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62528 From: Jim Hughes <jhughes@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:37pm
Subject: Re: Crown King Question
Thunder Storm may be a possibility
>>> Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...> 08/08/02 11:27AM >>>
In fact, you will be lucky to "see" water up there
since it has been so dry.
--- Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...> wrote:
> You won't have any problem with water. There will
> be
> a lot of dust out there, though.
>
> --- Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...> wrote:
> > This will be my 1st ride with the club since I
> > moved to AZ.
> >
> > What my question is, I Like to ride without my
> > doors, will the trip takeme
> > through and deep water
> > that might get in if I dont have my doors? Im
> > running 33's with 2in spacers
> >
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <pats@d...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:38 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Directions to the rendezvous for
> > Crown King
> >
> >
> > > Coming from Tucson take I17 straight through
> > Phoenix. You will be taking
> > > State Route 74 which is about 10 miles North of
> > Bell Road. Once you get to
> > > SR74 head West it is about 7 miles to the T go
> > right (BTW at this point
> > the
> > > Wild Horse Saloon should be on the south side of
> > the road). You will
> > quickly
> > > come to a Y go left toward Lake Pleasant you are
> > still on SR74 it is about
> > 8
> > > miles on this road to the Lake Pleasant turn off
> > main entry also called
> > > Castle Hot springs road take a right you are now
> > headed north just follow
> > > this road until it turns to a dirt road and make
> a
> > left you are there. HTH
> > > Jim F
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have
> me
> > as a member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > >
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> S. Jayke Thorpe
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
S. Jayke Thorpe
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62529 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:41pm
Subject: FW: Keep up the great work
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Wood [mailto:wood@m...]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 PM
To: Webmaster@A...
Subject: Keep up the great work
Hi,
I felt that I should drop you an e-mail and let you know that I just spent
some time looking at your webpages. I found you thanks to the discussion
that has been going on about geocaching and 4 wheeling over on the
azgeocaching.com's listserv. I am an active geocacher and a 4
wheeler. While not a jeep owner, I drive a 1968 FJ-40 Land Cruiser.
I just wanted to let you know that I think you guys are doing a hell of a
job here in Arizona.
Scott Wood
www.myblueheaven.com
62530 From: az_squarelights <squarelights@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Finally!!!
hey joe how long did you have it for? spencer must of not had it
long. he wanted me to go and have my oil changed at turbo rx for a
good price, so i did. when i came back to get my jeep it was
tagged. i should of figured he had something up his sleeve. anyway
i got it now, and im on the look out ;)
nick l. 93 yj soa
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> The search and TAG was successful today.
>
> I found a Green YJ License plate KKJ-838. It was at the Goodyear
store at Chandler and Kyrene, a guy named "Spencer".
>
> Chris Krieg You have not driven your Jeep to work today, or you
would have been IT.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
62531 From: <chaton602@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 9:51am
Subject: Re: [FS] got free tires?
I have three BFG AT's here at my house that I'm not using. They're 32's and
in fairly good condition. They still have tread.
Anthony Celaya
62532 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 1:52pm
Subject: [FS] Miscellaneous jeep parts
Price: Free!! Free!!
Contact: 623-776-9913, or 623-330-8987
Have d44 narrow trac axle
d30 complete from disc calipers in
d35 complete
hood and fenders for cj5
tube bumpers (rear, 1 with hitch)
miscelaneous other small suspension parts.
Will toss next monday. come and get it!!!!
Michael Beckham
62533 From: roy95yj <roy95yj@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 2:08pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Miscellaneous jeep parts
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
> Mike,
please call me
480-693-2346 or 602-614-7982
thanks
Roy
62534 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 2:10pm
Subject: [FS] YJ Hard Half Doors
Price: $475
Contact: kwj2@dana.ucc.nau.edu
Wrangler YJ hard steel half doors. White paint with tan interior panels. Doors in good condition with a few small dings. Driver's side interior panel has speaker hole, but door itself is uncut.
Kevin Jackson
62535 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 2:12pm
Subject: [FS] Hard Half Doors
Price: $475 pair
Contact: kwj2@dana.ucc.nau.edu
Wrangler YJ hard steel half doors. White paint with tan interior panels. Doors in good condition with a few small dings. Driver's side interior panel has speaker hole, but door itself is uncut.
Kevin Jackson