blooddrive
01-05-2004, 09:29 PM
62411-62435
62411 From: pebble007 <jawooten@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 0:57pm
Subject: money to burn on jeep stuff
Hello everyone,
Well hopefully in the next month or so I should come
across about 2500.00 bucks to put into my jeep (thanks honey). What
I need to figure out is on what?
What I currently have:
3in Procomp spring lift (stock control arms)
31x10.50 on ar767 with 4" backspacing
SYE (putting it in hopefully by end of august)
3.73:1 gears in a d30 (f) and D35c (r)
What I would like to end up with:
33-35in tires (prefer 35")
Enough lift to effectivly run up to 35in tires
I drive up to 2500 miles per month mostly on the highway so I need as
smooth of a ride that is possible and be able to maintain 75mph on
the freeway.
I have a 99TJ auto 6cyl. 55,000 miles
The idea here is to make a good dual purpose vehicle that I can
depend on both on the trail and the highway.
Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Josh Wooten
99 TJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
62412 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:04pm
Subject: [FS] 5 OEM wheels and tires off a 99'TJ
Price: $200obo
Contact: (480)236-7418 or (480)413-7755 Russell
Five (5) stock 99'TJ Wheels mounted on larger 30x9.5R15.0LT Goodyear Wrangler GS-A tires. Not sure of the mileage but I guess only about 25% wear. The spare is brand new. The wheels are a painted silver metallic 5-spoke design and I believe 15x7.
Russell Shumway
62413 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:05pm
Subject: Re: Front axle help
Disregard previous suggestion about washers. Should have known better.
Bill's right about the tapered inserts and removal method. A good a
way an any.
Gary Holmes
James Towle wrote:
>Does anyone know how to get the steering arm off this knuckle? (see pic)
>
>Also, I am having trouble getting the u-joint off the outer axle stub to
>inner axle. I have the clips removed and I can't budge the u-joint. If
>anyone has any tip/tricks please let me know.
>
>TIA
>
>--James
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62414 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:08pm
Subject: Re: Front axle help
James:
The large hammer method, while crude, usually does the job for the
steering arm. Soak with penetrating lube and tap on tapered inserts to
loosen/close gap so they can be removed first. Then the arm should come
off easily. The u-joint is another matter. I hate beating on them but
I do have the tool from Harbor Freight (as I am sure others have,
perhaps closer to you) that should make short work of the u-joint. If
that is not an option the old u-joint in a vise with large sockets trick
usually works for me. I am located approx. 39th Ave. and Northern Ave.
if it is workable for you please don't hesitate to call at 602-336-9088.
Gary Holmes
James Towle wrote:
>Does anyone know how to get the steering arm off this knuckle? (see pic)
>
>Also, I am having trouble getting the u-joint off the outer axle stub to
>inner axle. I have the clips removed and I can't budge the u-joint. If
>anyone has any tip/tricks please let me know.
>
>TIA
>
>--James
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62415 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:14pm
Subject: [FS] 5 31x10.50 big o xt's
Price: 300.00
Contact: matt baker 623-975-6311
5 good tires with at least 50% tread
4 american racing rims
Want to get rid of quick.
Also I have an extra skid plate and some factory side steps if anyone wants to make an offer.
Matt Baker
62416 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:20pm
Subject: RE: THANKS... RE: Front axle help
Roger,
Jesus' suggestion was to put the nuts back on with a few threads showing on
top and then burn the stud to the nuts (I literally cranked the 220V and
then turned down the wire, The stud and the nut were one). Then take an
impact gun and try to reverse the studs and washer out. Like I said, this
worked on one.
One of Neal's suggestions was to take the air chisel and try to cut away
where the washer met the knuckle, he also mentioned some other methods using
the blunt tip on the chisel.
Once I couldn't get the other two to budge using Jesus' method I chiseled
the washers away from the arm and then got out the breaker bar. With two
feet on the knuckle and both hands on the breaker bar I got the studs and
washers out of there.
After inspecting the washers they are pretty much one with the studs, rusted
together. I might be able to salvage the washers.
I still have to deal with the u-joints, after lunch though. I have had some
good advise and offers, so they shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks,
--James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:53 PM
> To: James Towle
> Subject: Re: THANKS... RE: [az_vjc] Front axle help
>
>
> James,
>
> I'd be interested in hearing what that detailed info from Jesus
> and Neal was.
> Can you share it with the rest of us? Or at least with me?
>
> Thanks,
> Roger
>
> James Towle wrote:
>
> > Thanks to Jesus & Neal for the speedy and detailed information.
> Holly Cow,
> > those things were on there.
> > One of the studs came out just like Jesus said it would. The
> other two I had
> > to use some of the information provided by Neal along with
> Jesus'. I also
> > found out that a 3 foot long breaker bar with me on the end of it is
> > stronger than my impact wrench, lol (what would that be, 555ft#
> torque on
> > the breaker bar I thought my impact is rated some where between
> 450-600ft#,
> > I guess not over 555 though).
> > I digress, thanks to all.
> >
> > --James
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jesus Chio [mailto:jchio@a...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:55 AM
> > > To: James Towle
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Front axle help
> > >
> > >
> > > Btw, the connical washers cost around $15-$20 each (stock style
> > > like those).
> > >
> > > Av eng and some other folks sell arms with the connical holes so
> > > they can be
> > > reused. Some others use regular bolts or regular studs
> (partsmike, etc)
> > >
> > > Maybe you are already off welding the nuts, hehe I miss those
> ol times...
> > > Have fun!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jesus Chio
> > > www.alloffroad.com
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > GOT .COM?
> > > www.offroadhost.com
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "The Acuna Family" <mkacuna@c...>
> > > To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "James Towle"
> <James.Towle@a...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Front axle help
> > >
> > >
> > > > Those look like split cone retainers used on axle flanges. I
> > > would thread
> > > > the nuts back on just enough to prevent them from becomeing
> projectiles.
> > > > Take a sledge hammer and hit it on the cross mark.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> > > > To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:54 AM
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Front axle help
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know how to get the steering arm off this
> > > knuckle? (see pic)
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, I am having trouble getting the u-joint off the outer
> > > axle stub to
> > > > > inner axle. I have the clips removed and I can't budge
> the u-joint. If
> > > > > anyone has any tip/tricks please let me know.
> > > > >
> > > > > TIA
> > > > >
> > > > > --James
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62417 From: Nick Gasmena <NickG@4...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:35pm
Subject: Re: money to burn on jeep stuff
Oooo.... $2,500 might put you in the range of a nice RE 5.5" long arm kit...
a few more dollars, and you could get yourself some new shoes... 35" MT's
would look good, and you wouldnt feel the need to re-gear too bad... my
buddy ran stock gearing with 36's and a 6 cyl for over a year, and still was
faster than me...
BTW: You could put 36's on there if you wanted :) And remember, you need to
do some axle work soon, if you plan to wheel it... Id think about a new
rear end, and at LEAST the super 30 kit (gives the streinght of about a d44)
Good luck, and happy spending!
Nick
~~~~ Have an EXCEL-ent Day!! ~~~~
Nick Gasmena - nickg@4...
-----------------------
Http://www.excelir.com/greatrates - Your gateway to Financial Freedom!
Home Office: 602-595-7734 Cell: 602-400-8896
-----------------------
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.4x4jeep.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "pebble007" <jawooten@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:57 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> Hello everyone,
> Well hopefully in the next month or so I should come
> across about 2500.00 bucks to put into my jeep (thanks honey). What
> I need to figure out is on what?
>
> What I currently have:
> 3in Procomp spring lift (stock control arms)
> 31x10.50 on ar767 with 4" backspacing
> SYE (putting it in hopefully by end of august)
> 3.73:1 gears in a d30 (f) and D35c (r)
> What I would like to end up with:
> 33-35in tires (prefer 35")
> Enough lift to effectivly run up to 35in tires
> I drive up to 2500 miles per month mostly on the highway so I need as
> smooth of a ride that is possible and be able to maintain 75mph on
> the freeway.
>
> I have a 99TJ auto 6cyl. 55,000 miles
>
> The idea here is to make a good dual purpose vehicle that I can
> depend on both on the trail and the highway.
>
> Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Josh Wooten
> 99 TJ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62418 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:54pm
Subject: Re: D60 high steer options ???
I suppose I could put you in touch with him if he misses this email.
Let me know.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: 'Scott Kruize' ; 'AZ_VJC'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Okay, I did a little web research and found that the knuckles can be machined to accept a D44 style high steer arm. When I was looking at Nasser's Jeep I believe he told me that Neil H does this. If so, I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with Neil.
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:07 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Hello,
I'm looking at picking up a front Dana 60 from a 94 Super Duty later today. But I believe it has a ball joint style knuckle. I've heard that the older kingpin style is the easiest way to go when looking at high steer options.
What are my options with the newer axle? I don't want to pick up this axle and regret it.
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62419 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:56pm
Subject: RE: D60 high steer options ???
Here is a tip on these high steer arms. After you machine and bolt them in place weld them with a high nickel content rod. I have seen these arms break on the trail at the point they bolt on. I bolt and weld all the high steer arms that I mount.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
To: 'Scott Kruize'; 'AZ_VJC'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Okay, I did a little web research and found that the knuckles can be machined to accept a D44 style high steer arm. When I was looking at Nasser's Jeep I believe he told me that Neil H does this. If so, I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with Neil.
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:07 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Hello,
I'm looking at picking up a front Dana 60 from a 94 Super Duty later today. But I believe it has a ball joint style knuckle. I've heard that the older kingpin style is the easiest way to go when looking at high steer options.
What are my options with the newer axle? I don't want to pick up this axle and regret it.
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62420 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:56pm
Subject: RE: D60 high steer options ???
Bill,
I tried to call you back after I lost your call but didn't have any luck at the time. I'll bother you again sometime down the road.
Thanks for all the advice!
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Mish [mailto:yldkat55@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:55 PM
To: 'AZ_VJC'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
I suppose I could put you in touch with him if he misses this email.
Let me know.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: 'Scott Kruize' ; 'AZ_VJC'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Okay, I did a little web research and found that the knuckles can be machined to accept a D44 style high steer arm. When I was looking at Nasser's Jeep I believe he told me that Neil H does this. If so, I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with Neil.
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:07 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Hello,
I'm looking at picking up a front Dana 60 from a 94 Super Duty later today. But I believe it has a ball joint style knuckle. I've heard that the older kingpin style is the easiest way to go when looking at high steer options.
What are my options with the newer axle? I don't want to pick up this axle and regret it.
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62421 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:33pm
Subject: Re: D60 high steer options ???
Ohh, GREAT!!!
Now everyone is gonna think we're buddies!
For the record folks, I hung up on him....!!
hehehe!
No problem, Scott, if you need Neal's phone # let me know.
Good luck.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: 'AZ_VJC'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Bill,
I tried to call you back after I lost your call but didn't have any luck at the time. I'll bother you again sometime down the road.
Thanks for all the advice!
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Mish [mailto:yldkat55@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:55 PM
To: 'AZ_VJC'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
I suppose I could put you in touch with him if he misses this email.
Let me know.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: 'Scott Kruize' ; 'AZ_VJC'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Okay, I did a little web research and found that the knuckles can be machined to accept a D44 style high steer arm. When I was looking at Nasser's Jeep I believe he told me that Neil H does this. If so, I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with Neil.
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:07 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Hello,
I'm looking at picking up a front Dana 60 from a 94 Super Duty later today. But I believe it has a ball joint style knuckle. I've heard that the older kingpin style is the easiest way to go when looking at high steer options.
What are my options with the newer axle? I don't want to pick up this axle and regret it.
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62422 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:40pm
Subject: RE: On the Rocks Trail challenge
Sounds good to me! I hope I get my job bonus soon so I can get my winch:) Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: TODD MCCULLEN [mailto:desertfab@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 9:33 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] On the Rocks Trail challenge
Let me know who is interested!!
I am in the process of putting together a fun day off wheeling!!
On The Rocks Trail Challenge!!!
" "Vehicle Requirements"
- Hard Lockers Frt. & Rear, No limited slips
- 33" min. tire size
- Winch
- Full cage or hard top
- First aid kit
- Tow strap
- Fire extiguisure
Rules
- teams of two rigs, ( both rigs must finish all trails to get finish time )
- If a break down occurs, rig must be moved to allow others to get around.
- There will bonus obstacles on certain trails to receive time credits.
- all rock stacking will need to be removed, be curtious to other drivers.
- There will be a tech inspection
- Start times will be drawn from a hat
Trails to be run
- Lower woodpecker
- upper woodpecker
- Highway to Hell
- Axle Alley
- Overdose
- Bad Medicine
- upper Ajax
- Middle Woody
This is a rough idea, It will be for fun , no entry fees. If I charge a fee then we will need to get a permit.
It may be possible to get donations for prizes.
I will need volunteers to help on the trails,
Let me know what you think
Todd McCullen
www.desertfab.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62423 From: bermboy2000 <bermboy@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:46pm
Subject: Re: On the Rocks Trail challenge
Sounds good to me too, just have to get a cage, Im guessing the
stocker wont do;P
Scott Maiden
93 YJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> Sounds good to me! I hope I get my job bonus soon so I can get my
winch:)
> Jim F.
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TODD MCCULLEN [mailto:desertfab@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 9:33 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] On the Rocks Trail challenge
>
>
> Let me know who is interested!!
>
> I am in the process of putting together a fun day off wheeling!!
>
> On The Rocks Trail Challenge!!!
>
> " "Vehicle
Requirements"
>
> - Hard Lockers Frt. & Rear, No limited slips
> - 33" min. tire size
> - Winch
> - Full cage or hard top
> - First aid kit
> - Tow strap
> - Fire extiguisure
>
> Rules
>
> - teams of two rigs, ( both rigs must finish all trails to get
finish
> time )
> - If a break down occurs, rig must be moved to allow others to
get
> around.
> - There will bonus obstacles on certain trails to receive time
credits.
> - all rock stacking will need to be removed, be curtious to
other
> drivers.
> - There will be a tech inspection
> - Start times will be drawn from a hat
>
> Trails to be run
>
> - Lower woodpecker
> - upper woodpecker
> - Highway to Hell
> - Axle Alley
> - Overdose
> - Bad Medicine
> - upper Ajax
> - Middle Woody
>
> This is a rough idea, It will be for fun , no entry fees. If I
charge a
> fee then we will need to get a permit.
> It may be possible to get donations for prizes.
> I will need volunteers to help on the trails,
>
> Let me know what you think
>
> Todd McCullen
> www.desertfab.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
62424 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:50pm
Subject: [FS] SNUG TOP BED COVER
Price: 600.00 OBO
Contact: 602-980-1158 SMCMILLAN@SANDERSONFORD.COM
SNUP TOP BED COVER FOR 99-CURRENT F250-F550 FORD LONG BED TRUCK.COVER IS BRAND NEW WAS ONLY ON TRUCK ONE WEEK. HAVE ALL PARTS AND BRACKETS.
SCOTT MC MILLAN
602-980-1158
SMCMILLAN@SANDERSONFORD.COM
SCOTT MCMILLAN
62425 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:54pm
Subject: Crown King head count
Ok by my count we have 79 signed up on the main page. I clicked on all of
them then went to the trips separately and found 27 that were not high
lighted. So my count for today is 106 :) Looks like a lot of fun. Glad to
see so many members going with us. Jim F. BTW the early bird run will be the
best :O
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
62426 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:59pm
Subject: [TR] Crown King from Lake Pleasant - Saturday, August 17, 2002 - Reminder
Hello All,
Jim Florence is leading a Crown King from Lake Pleasant trail run on Saturday, August 17, 2002.
When: Many trip wiil be scheduled
Where: Meet at the end of Castle Hot springs road where it changes to dirt.
Rating: 3.0-
Length: All day
CB Channel: 4
This is the AZVCJ annual anniversary run to Crown King come join the fun. Last year we had about 100 Jeeps go on the trip. I will set things up with Crown King so they are prepared.
Anthony Celaya will be doing Lunch "The final decision for lunch is: (WARM) BBQ beef sandwich , coleslaw, pasta and soda for the price of $5.50. The half price for the collection is now $2.75, the remaining $2.75 will be collected at the register of the Switchback when we eat. Anthony made a mistake by saying the price was $5.00, and I'm sorry for the change, but I promise the $5.50 price will be the set price. so for those who want to participate in this lunch that Camille is putting together for us, all she's asking is for half of the cost per plate, per person so she could begin preparing and getting supplies. Anthony will be taking the collection to Crown King on the 11th of August but will start collecting on the 9th and 10th.
on the 9th, Anthony will be at the chilies parking lot on the s/e corner of Mill and University from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m..
on the 10th, He will also be on the s/w corner of Thomas and 75th Ave behind Olive Garden (Desert Sky Mall area) at 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m..
if you would like to mail it to Anthony Celaya, his address is on the VJC website under members (be sure to write your name and your guest name so Anthony can put you on the list). if you have any questions, feel free to contact Anthony at 602-438-0468. TIA
.
Sign up on this run if you plan to attend the AzVJC Anniversary Party in Crown King.
Then sign up on one of the trips to Crown King!
We need several more trip leaders at different times. I need everyone to sign up on this page so we have a count. Each trip leader should post the trip and the time they plan on running it please sign up on this page and the trip leaders page you plan on making. Thanks Hackle.
PLEASE have your State Recreation Permit. I know there are a large number
of AZVJC that already have permits but with the Land Dept "bending to your
requests to reopen STL's early......... please respect that by "wheel'n
legally".
Sandee has State Rec Permits (east valley)
4-Wheeler Supply on 35th street &; Washington
Driven Auto Parts on 35th Avenue, south of Van Buren
State Land Dept. at 1616 W. Adams
Public Lands Information Center at 222 N. Central, Phx
$15.00 per year for an individual (cannot be transfered and is for purchaser
ONLY)
$20.00 per year for a family (IMMEDIATE FAMILY ONLY..... purchaser, spouse &;
minor children)
This allows acces to 9.8 million acres of State Trust Land in
Arizona........ make that 9.7....... there are a few small pieces of STL
closed due to urban sprawl and/or EPA directives.
The Lake Pleasang to Crown King trail is a local favorite. On any given weekend, there will be numerous groups of four wheelers, ATV's and motorcycles heading to and from Crown King. It is a fun and scenic trail into the cooler pines of the Bradshaws. This trail was the first trip ever done by AzVJC.
The trail takes off from the Castle Hotsprings Rd and travels through the foot hills and up the side of the mountain, giving nice views of Lake Pleasant and the Valley. There are some tougher optional sections that can make it interesting.
The trail goes through the old ghost towns of Fort Misery and Oro Belle, both of which are remnants of the Mining era of the Bradshaw Mountains. All that remains now, are foundations and a few crumbling walls. Fort Misery makes a nice place to stop and eat lunch as the small creek usually has running water and there are trees to provide shade.
In the winter months, the trail from Fort Misery through Oro Belle to Crown King will often have snow and/or ice. In the summer, an early start is necessary to stay ahead of the rising temperatures.
Once on top of the mountain, the trail runs through the cool pines and into Crown King. In Crown King there are places to eat and have a drink, and a general store that sells some excellent fudge. The old Crown King Saloon was actually built in Oro Belle, and later hauled up (many years ago) to Crown King and rebuilt. In Oro Belle, the saloon was built into the side of the hill, so the upstairs were mainly accessable from the rear of the building (at ground level). The upstairs served as a place repose for women of ill fame.
There are campgrounds on top of the mountain near Crown King for those wishing to stay overnight. The fastest way down is via the main road which leads through Cleator and toward Bumble Bee. You can split off and go through Cordes Junction, which will get you to the Freeway quicker, or keep going strait and go through the little town of Bumble Bee.
Alternatively, you can take the Senator Highway toward Prescott or Mayer, this can be a very interesting trail during snow season. If you have the time, follow Towers Mountain rd through Crown King and up to the top of Towers Mountain, there are some excellent views and you can join back up with the Senator Highway afterward.
Have fun, remember to bring water and your camera.
Enjoy, and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
62427 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:12pm
Subject: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
Ms. Leonard,
I read your "A high-tech scavenger hunt" article in today's newspaper.
Although I am not a "geocacher", I am aware of the popularity it has gained
over the past years. With the improvements in GPS receivers and their drop
in price, it is certainly easy to be the proud owner of one of these little
beauties.
One item was incorrectly reported in your article. You stated (on page A2)
that "Geocaching began in May 2000 when the Clinton administration
unscrambled the electronic signals of the government-owned global
positioning sytem, allowing civilians to use devices to steer cars or find
missing hikers with pinpoint accuracy." While it is true that geocaching
may very well have started in May, 2000, it was not because of any actions
taken by the Clinton Administration. On or about May 1, 2002, then
President Clinton lifted the requirement that caused the intentional
degradation in the accuracy of the GPS signal. Neither he nor his
administration can be given any kind of credit for making the GPS technology
available to the civilian population and its subsequent use for steering
cars or finding lost hikers. I was using a consumer grade GPS receiver long
before May 1, 2000. As to your comment about it being able to steer a
car....no...no...no! Would you feel confident in a car with a "steering
system" that could guide your vehicle to within an accuracy of 6 to 20 feet?
(those are your numbers, not mine) Thank you but no....I prefer to "steer"
my vehicle with more precision than that. I am afraid that a 6 to 20 foot
error would very well put me into the path of dangerous oncoming traffic.
But, enough about the basics of GPS reception. I need to get to the point
of this correspondence.
As an environmentalist that fully enjoys virtually everything our public
lands have to offer, I am saddened to hear that some irresponsible people
are leaving their trash behind, making new trails, and even picking up
native artifacts they find in a geocache area. I wonder how many of these
people are familiar with the laws concerning removing an item from an
archaeological site? I can tell you, from first hand experience, that many
people have no idea that driving across the desert or up a big hill, where
there is no trail, is unlawful in most of Arizona. I can speak to people
leaving their trash behind....any road trip down I-10 or I-17 will yield
supporting evidence that people certainly do litter.
The main point I found quite interesting is the apparent blame that your
article places on those people that are participating in the geocaching
sport (I guess we can call it a sport?)
Let's first look at the facts you stated in the article:
1. There are at least 18 known Arizona caches listed on the Internet that
are on or near archaeological sites. (you didn't mention how many were
actually on a site)
2. There are more than 10,900 known archaeological sites in Maricopa
County.
3. There are more than 50,400 archaeological sites in Arizona, not
including those on Tribal lands.
4. You stated that most of the archaeological locations have been kept
secret for years, and officials have even required a new site steward to
sign a confidentiality agreement.
So...let me see if I understand what you are really saying.
1. 0.0357143% of the geocache sites are located on or near an
archaeological site in this state.
2. Virtually no one, except the trusted site stewards and specific land
management officials, no where the archaeological sites are.....and we have
one or two site stewards (that you interviewed) that are upset because three
and one half hundreths of just one percent of the total geocache sites in
Arizona happen to be put on these secret archaeological sites.
It is sad that the geocachers are being held up as those that are ruining
our archaeological sites but yet we won't tell them where the sites are so
they wouldn't accidentally put their cache "at or near" an archaeological
site. I realize this might very well be a damned if you do, damned if you
don't kind of situation, but please apply some common sense here. Your
article indicates that many of the Arizona geocaches are in remote
locations....places that are difficult to get to. So, we then say shame on
the geocachers for picking a challenging location to hide their
cache.....and when it just happens to be on a secret archaeological site
that no one told them about.....and it is their fault? You've got to be
kidding, right?
Maybe it is not quite as bad as I am led to believe? Perhaps another way to
look at it is:
1. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of our teenage population didn't
complete high school?
2. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of the people driving through a
Phoenix intersection ran the red light?
I do commend you for reporting that Mr. Brian Cluff, a person who helps run
AZgeocaching.com, has not been contacted or notified about the apparent
problem that is occuring at or near the secret archaeological sites.
However, it is sad that the amount of text you devoted to Mr. Cluff is
approximately 0.0357143% of your article. None the less....I am certain
that all reading it will in no way be biased by this.
Now that you have identified this problem, what are the paper's plans to
help correct it? From what was written, it appears that a strong push
towards educating those that enjoy geocaching would certainly go a long way
in correcting this problem. Perhaps some public awareness commercials on
the local TV stations (maybe even radio too) would make more aware of their
inapropriate actions. Remeber, we have people randomly hiding little
tuperware containers of goodies on secret archaeological sites that they
have no knowledge of.
I look forward to your next article that outlines the plans that will be
implemented to help curb this problem.
King Regards,
Stu Olson
Phoenix
62428 From: pebble007 <jawooten@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:22pm
Subject: Re: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
Nice reply to the article Stu. Another example of journalists not
comprhending the full scope of what they are reporting on or just not
caring.. Geo cacheing has been going on for awhile and it is not
until some weenie whines and get it printed in the paper with the
facts twisted or conveyed to one sides needs.
Again great reply.
Josh Wooten
99 TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Ms. Leonard,
>
> I read your "A high-tech scavenger hunt" article in today's
newspaper.
> Although I am not a "geocacher", I am aware of the popularity it
has gained
> over the past years. With the improvements in GPS receivers and
their drop
> in price, it is certainly easy to be the proud owner of one of
these little
> beauties.
>
> One item was incorrectly reported in your article. You stated (on
page A2)
> that "Geocaching began in May 2000 when the Clinton administration
> unscrambled the electronic signals of the government-owned global
> positioning sytem, allowing civilians to use devices to steer cars
or find
> missing hikers with pinpoint accuracy." While it is true that
geocaching
> may very well have started in May, 2000, it was not because of any
actions
> taken by the Clinton Administration. On or about May 1, 2002, then
> President Clinton lifted the requirement that caused the intentional
> degradation in the accuracy of the GPS signal. Neither he nor his
> administration can be given any kind of credit for making the GPS
technology
> available to the civilian population and its subsequent use for
steering
> cars or finding lost hikers. I was using a consumer grade GPS
receiver long
> before May 1, 2000. As to your comment about it being able to
steer a
> car....no...no...no! Would you feel confident in a car with
a "steering
> system" that could guide your vehicle to within an accuracy of 6 to
20 feet?
> (those are your numbers, not mine) Thank you but no....I prefer
to "steer"
> my vehicle with more precision than that. I am afraid that a 6 to
20 foot
> error would very well put me into the path of dangerous oncoming
traffic.
> But, enough about the basics of GPS reception. I need to get to
the point
> of this correspondence.
>
> As an environmentalist that fully enjoys virtually everything our
public
> lands have to offer, I am saddened to hear that some irresponsible
people
> are leaving their trash behind, making new trails, and even picking
up
> native artifacts they find in a geocache area. I wonder how many
of these
> people are familiar with the laws concerning removing an item from
an
> archaeological site? I can tell you, from first hand experience,
that many
> people have no idea that driving across the desert or up a big
hill, where
> there is no trail, is unlawful in most of Arizona. I can speak to
people
> leaving their trash behind....any road trip down I-10 or I-17 will
yield
> supporting evidence that people certainly do litter.
>
> The main point I found quite interesting is the apparent blame that
your
> article places on those people that are participating in the
geocaching
> sport (I guess we can call it a sport?)
>
> Let's first look at the facts you stated in the article:
>
> 1. There are at least 18 known Arizona caches listed on the
Internet that
> are on or near archaeological sites. (you didn't mention how many
were
> actually on a site)
>
> 2. There are more than 10,900 known archaeological sites in
Maricopa
> County.
>
> 3. There are more than 50,400 archaeological sites in Arizona, not
> including those on Tribal lands.
>
> 4. You stated that most of the archaeological locations have been
kept
> secret for years, and officials have even required a new site
steward to
> sign a confidentiality agreement.
>
>
> So...let me see if I understand what you are really saying.
>
> 1. 0.0357143% of the geocache sites are located on or near an
> archaeological site in this state.
>
> 2. Virtually no one, except the trusted site stewards and specific
land
> management officials, no where the archaeological sites are.....and
we have
> one or two site stewards (that you interviewed) that are upset
because three
> and one half hundreths of just one percent of the total geocache
sites in
> Arizona happen to be put on these secret archaeological sites.
>
> It is sad that the geocachers are being held up as those that are
ruining
> our archaeological sites but yet we won't tell them where the sites
are so
> they wouldn't accidentally put their cache "at or near" an
archaeological
> site. I realize this might very well be a damned if you do, damned
if you
> don't kind of situation, but please apply some common sense here.
Your
> article indicates that many of the Arizona geocaches are in remote
> locations....places that are difficult to get to. So, we then say
shame on
> the geocachers for picking a challenging location to hide their
> cache.....and when it just happens to be on a secret archaeological
site
> that no one told them about.....and it is their fault? You've got
to be
> kidding, right?
>
> Maybe it is not quite as bad as I am led to believe? Perhaps
another way to
> look at it is:
>
> 1. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of our teenage
population didn't
> complete high school?
>
> 2. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of the people driving
through a
> Phoenix intersection ran the red light?
>
> I do commend you for reporting that Mr. Brian Cluff, a person who
helps run
> AZgeocaching.com, has not been contacted or notified about the
apparent
> problem that is occuring at or near the secret archaeological sites.
> However, it is sad that the amount of text you devoted to Mr. Cluff
is
> approximately 0.0357143% of your article. None the less....I am
certain
> that all reading it will in no way be biased by this.
>
> Now that you have identified this problem, what are the paper's
plans to
> help correct it? From what was written, it appears that a strong
push
> towards educating those that enjoy geocaching would certainly go a
long way
> in correcting this problem. Perhaps some public awareness
commercials on
> the local TV stations (maybe even radio too) would make more aware
of their
> inapropriate actions. Remeber, we have people randomly hiding
little
> tuperware containers of goodies on secret archaeological sites
that they
> have no knowledge of.
>
> I look forward to your next article that outlines the plans that
will be
> implemented to help curb this problem.
>
> King Regards,
>
> Stu Olson
> Phoenix
62429 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:22pm
Subject: ot: website help again
Ok, I used Netscape to find a template of a site.......(thanks Joe West), but know the header on my site says I'm at Joe West's Home page. How do I get rid of that.........pay a copyright fee8>) Also, the links I put on my page don't bring up the pictures, just the dreaded red x's. How do I get those to work?
Thanks,
Mike
62430 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:31pm
Subject: Re: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
Nicely done Stu! I was a little bent at that article this morning too.
Definately seemed out of whack but unfortunately I didn't have the time
or the knowledge to challenge the conclusions.
Gary Holmes
Stu Olson wrote:
>Ms. Leonard,
>
>I read your "A high-tech scavenger hunt" article in today's newspaper.
>Although I am not a "geocacher", I am aware of the popularity it has gained
>over the past years. With the improvements in GPS receivers and their drop
>in price, it is certainly easy to be the proud owner of one of these little
>beauties.
>
>One item was incorrectly reported in your article. You stated (on page A2)
>that "Geocaching began in May 2000 when the Clinton administration
>unscrambled the electronic signals of the government-owned global
>positioning sytem, allowing civilians to use devices to steer cars or find
>missing hikers with pinpoint accuracy." While it is true that geocaching
>may very well have started in May, 2000, it was not because of any actions
>taken by the Clinton Administration. On or about May 1, 2002, then
>President Clinton lifted the requirement that caused the intentional
>degradation in the accuracy of the GPS signal. Neither he nor his
>administration can be given any kind of credit for making the GPS technology
>available to the civilian population and its subsequent use for steering
>cars or finding lost hikers. I was using a consumer grade GPS receiver long
>before May 1, 2000. As to your comment about it being able to steer a
>car....no...no...no! Would you feel confident in a car with a "steering
>system" that could guide your vehicle to within an accuracy of 6 to 20 feet?
>(those are your numbers, not mine) Thank you but no....I prefer to "steer"
>my vehicle with more precision than that. I am afraid that a 6 to 20 foot
>error would very well put me into the path of dangerous oncoming traffic.
>But, enough about the basics of GPS reception. I need to get to the point
>of this correspondence.
>
>As an environmentalist that fully enjoys virtually everything our public
>lands have to offer, I am saddened to hear that some irresponsible people
>are leaving their trash behind, making new trails, and even picking up
>native artifacts they find in a geocache area. I wonder how many of these
>people are familiar with the laws concerning removing an item from an
>archaeological site? I can tell you, from first hand experience, that many
>people have no idea that driving across the desert or up a big hill, where
>there is no trail, is unlawful in most of Arizona. I can speak to people
>leaving their trash behind....any road trip down I-10 or I-17 will yield
>supporting evidence that people certainly do litter.
>
>The main point I found quite interesting is the apparent blame that your
>article places on those people that are participating in the geocaching
>sport (I guess we can call it a sport?)
>
>Let's first look at the facts you stated in the article:
>
>1. There are at least 18 known Arizona caches listed on the Internet that
>are on or near archaeological sites. (you didn't mention how many were
>actually on a site)
>
>2. There are more than 10,900 known archaeological sites in Maricopa
>County.
>
>3. There are more than 50,400 archaeological sites in Arizona, not
>including those on Tribal lands.
>
>4. You stated that most of the archaeological locations have been kept
>secret for years, and officials have even required a new site steward to
>sign a confidentiality agreement.
>
>
>So...let me see if I understand what you are really saying.
>
>1. 0.0357143% of the geocache sites are located on or near an
>archaeological site in this state.
>
>2. Virtually no one, except the trusted site stewards and specific land
>management officials, no where the archaeological sites are.....and we have
>one or two site stewards (that you interviewed) that are upset because three
>and one half hundreths of just one percent of the total geocache sites in
>Arizona happen to be put on these secret archaeological sites.
>
>It is sad that the geocachers are being held up as those that are ruining
>our archaeological sites but yet we won't tell them where the sites are so
>they wouldn't accidentally put their cache "at or near" an archaeological
>site. I realize this might very well be a damned if you do, damned if you
>don't kind of situation, but please apply some common sense here. Your
>article indicates that many of the Arizona geocaches are in remote
>locations....places that are difficult to get to. So, we then say shame on
>the geocachers for picking a challenging location to hide their
>cache.....and when it just happens to be on a secret archaeological site
>that no one told them about.....and it is their fault? You've got to be
>kidding, right?
>
>Maybe it is not quite as bad as I am led to believe? Perhaps another way to
>look at it is:
>
>1. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of our teenage population didn't
>complete high school?
>
>2. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of the people driving through a
>Phoenix intersection ran the red light?
>
>I do commend you for reporting that Mr. Brian Cluff, a person who helps run
>AZgeocaching.com, has not been contacted or notified about the apparent
>problem that is occuring at or near the secret archaeological sites.
>However, it is sad that the amount of text you devoted to Mr. Cluff is
>approximately 0.0357143% of your article. None the less....I am certain
>that all reading it will in no way be biased by this.
>
>Now that you have identified this problem, what are the paper's plans to
>help correct it? From what was written, it appears that a strong push
>towards educating those that enjoy geocaching would certainly go a long way
>in correcting this problem. Perhaps some public awareness commercials on
>the local TV stations (maybe even radio too) would make more aware of their
>inapropriate actions. Remeber, we have people randomly hiding little
>tuperware containers of goodies on secret archaeological sites that they
>have no knowledge of.
>
>I look forward to your next article that outlines the plans that will be
>implemented to help curb this problem.
>
>King Regards,
>
>Stu Olson
>Phoenix
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
62431 From: David Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:35pm
Subject: Re: ot: website help again
go into html and look at the top should have <head> near it
----Original Message Follows----
From: "The Acuna Family" <mkacuna@c...>
To: "AzVJC Website" <azvjc@a...>
Subject: [az_vjc] ot: website help again
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:22:42 -0700
Ok, I used Netscape to find a template of a site.......(thanks Joe West),
but know the header on my site says I'm at Joe West's Home page. How do I
get rid of that.........pay a copyright fee8>) Also, the links I put on my
page don't bring up the pictures, just the dreaded red x's. How do I get
those to work?
Thanks,
Mike
__________________________________________________ _______________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
62432 From: Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:38pm
Subject: High Tech scavenger hunt article.
I thought the list might be interested in what some of the people on AzGeocaching.com is responding about this article:
Perhaps the article should have been written about ATVs and 4x4s. We have noticed that there is a definite correlation in the amount of trash and the vehicle access. When you are in areas where you must travel by foot, there is a very small amount of trash. But when you are in areas where vehicles can go, there are always bud light cans by the case and a bunch of other crap one can only wonder why someone took the trouble to haul it way out there, unless it was to use it for target practice and leave it behind. We say TRASHY PEOPLE HAVE TRASHY WAYS. These are the same idiots who throw fast food wrappers out the window on I-17 thinking "someone" else will pick it up. I offer the following rewrite of the article:
An off road vehicle rampage has caused a panic among authorites who say the offroaders are destroying archaelogical sites around the state. Using jeeps and ATVs the slobs can literally drive right to more than 600 sites throughout arizona and vandalize artifacts and throw trash out the window....
Jean
roadrunners
62433 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:39pm
Subject: [FS] Wanted Black WindJammer
Price: ???
Contact: 602.791.9835
Need for 92 YJ,
Jason B
62434 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:41pm
Subject: Re: ot: website help again
Nice to hear from you David. Thanks, that worked. Now, how about them link
pics.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...>
To: <mkacuna@c...>; <azvjc@a...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ot: website help again
> go into html and look at the top should have <head> near it
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "The Acuna Family" <mkacuna@c...>
> To: "AzVJC Website" <azvjc@a...>
> Subject: [az_vjc] ot: website help again
> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:22:42 -0700
>
> Ok, I used Netscape to find a template of a site.......(thanks Joe West),
> but know the header on my site says I'm at Joe West's Home page. How do I
> get rid of that.........pay a copyright fee8>) Also, the links I put on
my
> page don't bring up the pictures, just the dreaded red x's. How do I get
> those to work?
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
62435 From: Robert Peck <rlpii@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:50pm
Subject: Re: High Tech scavenger hunt article.
We, the OHV community, had better clean up our act, or we will be 4 wheeling in the Safeway parking lot.
The public doesn't hear about the good things we do (the clean-ups, fire run, search and rescues, etc.) and their perception is that we are the ones doing the damage.
"Perception Is Reality"
(No, I am not saying that we really do the damage, I'm just saying that their perception is their reality)
Bob
74 CJ-5
CANT W8
Kyle Hagan wrote:
I thought the list might be interested in what some of the people on AzGeocaching.com is responding about this article: Perhaps the article should have been written about ATVs and 4x4s. We have noticed that there is a definite correlation in the amount of trash and the vehicle access. When you are in areas where you must travel by foot, there is a very small amount of trash. But when you are in areas where vehicles can go, there are always bud light cans by the case and a bunch of other crap one can only wonder why someone took the trouble to haul it way out there, unless it was to use it for target practice and leave it behind. We say TRASHY PEOPLE HAVE TRASHY WAYS. These are the same idiots who throw fast food wrappers out the window on I-17 thinking "someone" else will pick it up. I offer the following rewrite of the article:
An off road vehicle rampage has caused a panic among authorites who say the offroaders are destroying archaelogical sites around the state. Using jeeps and ATVs the slobs can literally drive right to more than 600 sites throughout arizona and vandalize artifacts and throw trash out the window....
Jean
roadrunners
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62411 From: pebble007 <jawooten@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 0:57pm
Subject: money to burn on jeep stuff
Hello everyone,
Well hopefully in the next month or so I should come
across about 2500.00 bucks to put into my jeep (thanks honey). What
I need to figure out is on what?
What I currently have:
3in Procomp spring lift (stock control arms)
31x10.50 on ar767 with 4" backspacing
SYE (putting it in hopefully by end of august)
3.73:1 gears in a d30 (f) and D35c (r)
What I would like to end up with:
33-35in tires (prefer 35")
Enough lift to effectivly run up to 35in tires
I drive up to 2500 miles per month mostly on the highway so I need as
smooth of a ride that is possible and be able to maintain 75mph on
the freeway.
I have a 99TJ auto 6cyl. 55,000 miles
The idea here is to make a good dual purpose vehicle that I can
depend on both on the trail and the highway.
Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Josh Wooten
99 TJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
62412 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:04pm
Subject: [FS] 5 OEM wheels and tires off a 99'TJ
Price: $200obo
Contact: (480)236-7418 or (480)413-7755 Russell
Five (5) stock 99'TJ Wheels mounted on larger 30x9.5R15.0LT Goodyear Wrangler GS-A tires. Not sure of the mileage but I guess only about 25% wear. The spare is brand new. The wheels are a painted silver metallic 5-spoke design and I believe 15x7.
Russell Shumway
62413 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:05pm
Subject: Re: Front axle help
Disregard previous suggestion about washers. Should have known better.
Bill's right about the tapered inserts and removal method. A good a
way an any.
Gary Holmes
James Towle wrote:
>Does anyone know how to get the steering arm off this knuckle? (see pic)
>
>Also, I am having trouble getting the u-joint off the outer axle stub to
>inner axle. I have the clips removed and I can't budge the u-joint. If
>anyone has any tip/tricks please let me know.
>
>TIA
>
>--James
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62414 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:08pm
Subject: Re: Front axle help
James:
The large hammer method, while crude, usually does the job for the
steering arm. Soak with penetrating lube and tap on tapered inserts to
loosen/close gap so they can be removed first. Then the arm should come
off easily. The u-joint is another matter. I hate beating on them but
I do have the tool from Harbor Freight (as I am sure others have,
perhaps closer to you) that should make short work of the u-joint. If
that is not an option the old u-joint in a vise with large sockets trick
usually works for me. I am located approx. 39th Ave. and Northern Ave.
if it is workable for you please don't hesitate to call at 602-336-9088.
Gary Holmes
James Towle wrote:
>Does anyone know how to get the steering arm off this knuckle? (see pic)
>
>Also, I am having trouble getting the u-joint off the outer axle stub to
>inner axle. I have the clips removed and I can't budge the u-joint. If
>anyone has any tip/tricks please let me know.
>
>TIA
>
>--James
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62415 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:14pm
Subject: [FS] 5 31x10.50 big o xt's
Price: 300.00
Contact: matt baker 623-975-6311
5 good tires with at least 50% tread
4 american racing rims
Want to get rid of quick.
Also I have an extra skid plate and some factory side steps if anyone wants to make an offer.
Matt Baker
62416 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:20pm
Subject: RE: THANKS... RE: Front axle help
Roger,
Jesus' suggestion was to put the nuts back on with a few threads showing on
top and then burn the stud to the nuts (I literally cranked the 220V and
then turned down the wire, The stud and the nut were one). Then take an
impact gun and try to reverse the studs and washer out. Like I said, this
worked on one.
One of Neal's suggestions was to take the air chisel and try to cut away
where the washer met the knuckle, he also mentioned some other methods using
the blunt tip on the chisel.
Once I couldn't get the other two to budge using Jesus' method I chiseled
the washers away from the arm and then got out the breaker bar. With two
feet on the knuckle and both hands on the breaker bar I got the studs and
washers out of there.
After inspecting the washers they are pretty much one with the studs, rusted
together. I might be able to salvage the washers.
I still have to deal with the u-joints, after lunch though. I have had some
good advise and offers, so they shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks,
--James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:53 PM
> To: James Towle
> Subject: Re: THANKS... RE: [az_vjc] Front axle help
>
>
> James,
>
> I'd be interested in hearing what that detailed info from Jesus
> and Neal was.
> Can you share it with the rest of us? Or at least with me?
>
> Thanks,
> Roger
>
> James Towle wrote:
>
> > Thanks to Jesus & Neal for the speedy and detailed information.
> Holly Cow,
> > those things were on there.
> > One of the studs came out just like Jesus said it would. The
> other two I had
> > to use some of the information provided by Neal along with
> Jesus'. I also
> > found out that a 3 foot long breaker bar with me on the end of it is
> > stronger than my impact wrench, lol (what would that be, 555ft#
> torque on
> > the breaker bar I thought my impact is rated some where between
> 450-600ft#,
> > I guess not over 555 though).
> > I digress, thanks to all.
> >
> > --James
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jesus Chio [mailto:jchio@a...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:55 AM
> > > To: James Towle
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Front axle help
> > >
> > >
> > > Btw, the connical washers cost around $15-$20 each (stock style
> > > like those).
> > >
> > > Av eng and some other folks sell arms with the connical holes so
> > > they can be
> > > reused. Some others use regular bolts or regular studs
> (partsmike, etc)
> > >
> > > Maybe you are already off welding the nuts, hehe I miss those
> ol times...
> > > Have fun!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jesus Chio
> > > www.alloffroad.com
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > GOT .COM?
> > > www.offroadhost.com
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "The Acuna Family" <mkacuna@c...>
> > > To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "James Towle"
> <James.Towle@a...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Front axle help
> > >
> > >
> > > > Those look like split cone retainers used on axle flanges. I
> > > would thread
> > > > the nuts back on just enough to prevent them from becomeing
> projectiles.
> > > > Take a sledge hammer and hit it on the cross mark.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> > > > To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:54 AM
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Front axle help
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know how to get the steering arm off this
> > > knuckle? (see pic)
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, I am having trouble getting the u-joint off the outer
> > > axle stub to
> > > > > inner axle. I have the clips removed and I can't budge
> the u-joint. If
> > > > > anyone has any tip/tricks please let me know.
> > > > >
> > > > > TIA
> > > > >
> > > > > --James
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
62417 From: Nick Gasmena <NickG@4...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:35pm
Subject: Re: money to burn on jeep stuff
Oooo.... $2,500 might put you in the range of a nice RE 5.5" long arm kit...
a few more dollars, and you could get yourself some new shoes... 35" MT's
would look good, and you wouldnt feel the need to re-gear too bad... my
buddy ran stock gearing with 36's and a 6 cyl for over a year, and still was
faster than me...
BTW: You could put 36's on there if you wanted :) And remember, you need to
do some axle work soon, if you plan to wheel it... Id think about a new
rear end, and at LEAST the super 30 kit (gives the streinght of about a d44)
Good luck, and happy spending!
Nick
~~~~ Have an EXCEL-ent Day!! ~~~~
Nick Gasmena - nickg@4...
-----------------------
Http://www.excelir.com/greatrates - Your gateway to Financial Freedom!
Home Office: 602-595-7734 Cell: 602-400-8896
-----------------------
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.4x4jeep.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "pebble007" <jawooten@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:57 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] money to burn on jeep stuff
> Hello everyone,
> Well hopefully in the next month or so I should come
> across about 2500.00 bucks to put into my jeep (thanks honey). What
> I need to figure out is on what?
>
> What I currently have:
> 3in Procomp spring lift (stock control arms)
> 31x10.50 on ar767 with 4" backspacing
> SYE (putting it in hopefully by end of august)
> 3.73:1 gears in a d30 (f) and D35c (r)
> What I would like to end up with:
> 33-35in tires (prefer 35")
> Enough lift to effectivly run up to 35in tires
> I drive up to 2500 miles per month mostly on the highway so I need as
> smooth of a ride that is possible and be able to maintain 75mph on
> the freeway.
>
> I have a 99TJ auto 6cyl. 55,000 miles
>
> The idea here is to make a good dual purpose vehicle that I can
> depend on both on the trail and the highway.
>
> Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Josh Wooten
> 99 TJ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62418 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:54pm
Subject: Re: D60 high steer options ???
I suppose I could put you in touch with him if he misses this email.
Let me know.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: 'Scott Kruize' ; 'AZ_VJC'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Okay, I did a little web research and found that the knuckles can be machined to accept a D44 style high steer arm. When I was looking at Nasser's Jeep I believe he told me that Neil H does this. If so, I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with Neil.
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:07 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Hello,
I'm looking at picking up a front Dana 60 from a 94 Super Duty later today. But I believe it has a ball joint style knuckle. I've heard that the older kingpin style is the easiest way to go when looking at high steer options.
What are my options with the newer axle? I don't want to pick up this axle and regret it.
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62419 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:56pm
Subject: RE: D60 high steer options ???
Here is a tip on these high steer arms. After you machine and bolt them in place weld them with a high nickel content rod. I have seen these arms break on the trail at the point they bolt on. I bolt and weld all the high steer arms that I mount.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
To: 'Scott Kruize'; 'AZ_VJC'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Okay, I did a little web research and found that the knuckles can be machined to accept a D44 style high steer arm. When I was looking at Nasser's Jeep I believe he told me that Neil H does this. If so, I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with Neil.
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:07 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Hello,
I'm looking at picking up a front Dana 60 from a 94 Super Duty later today. But I believe it has a ball joint style knuckle. I've heard that the older kingpin style is the easiest way to go when looking at high steer options.
What are my options with the newer axle? I don't want to pick up this axle and regret it.
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62420 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 1:56pm
Subject: RE: D60 high steer options ???
Bill,
I tried to call you back after I lost your call but didn't have any luck at the time. I'll bother you again sometime down the road.
Thanks for all the advice!
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Mish [mailto:yldkat55@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:55 PM
To: 'AZ_VJC'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
I suppose I could put you in touch with him if he misses this email.
Let me know.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: 'Scott Kruize' ; 'AZ_VJC'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Okay, I did a little web research and found that the knuckles can be machined to accept a D44 style high steer arm. When I was looking at Nasser's Jeep I believe he told me that Neil H does this. If so, I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with Neil.
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:07 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Hello,
I'm looking at picking up a front Dana 60 from a 94 Super Duty later today. But I believe it has a ball joint style knuckle. I've heard that the older kingpin style is the easiest way to go when looking at high steer options.
What are my options with the newer axle? I don't want to pick up this axle and regret it.
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62421 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:33pm
Subject: Re: D60 high steer options ???
Ohh, GREAT!!!
Now everyone is gonna think we're buddies!
For the record folks, I hung up on him....!!
hehehe!
No problem, Scott, if you need Neal's phone # let me know.
Good luck.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: 'AZ_VJC'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Bill,
I tried to call you back after I lost your call but didn't have any luck at the time. I'll bother you again sometime down the road.
Thanks for all the advice!
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Mish [mailto:yldkat55@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:55 PM
To: 'AZ_VJC'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
I suppose I could put you in touch with him if he misses this email.
Let me know.
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: 'Scott Kruize' ; 'AZ_VJC'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Okay, I did a little web research and found that the knuckles can be machined to accept a D44 style high steer arm. When I was looking at Nasser's Jeep I believe he told me that Neil H does this. If so, I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with Neil.
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:07 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] D60 high steer options ???
Hello,
I'm looking at picking up a front Dana 60 from a 94 Super Duty later today. But I believe it has a ball joint style knuckle. I've heard that the older kingpin style is the easiest way to go when looking at high steer options.
What are my options with the newer axle? I don't want to pick up this axle and regret it.
Thanks,
Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62422 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:40pm
Subject: RE: On the Rocks Trail challenge
Sounds good to me! I hope I get my job bonus soon so I can get my winch:) Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: TODD MCCULLEN [mailto:desertfab@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 9:33 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] On the Rocks Trail challenge
Let me know who is interested!!
I am in the process of putting together a fun day off wheeling!!
On The Rocks Trail Challenge!!!
" "Vehicle Requirements"
- Hard Lockers Frt. & Rear, No limited slips
- 33" min. tire size
- Winch
- Full cage or hard top
- First aid kit
- Tow strap
- Fire extiguisure
Rules
- teams of two rigs, ( both rigs must finish all trails to get finish time )
- If a break down occurs, rig must be moved to allow others to get around.
- There will bonus obstacles on certain trails to receive time credits.
- all rock stacking will need to be removed, be curtious to other drivers.
- There will be a tech inspection
- Start times will be drawn from a hat
Trails to be run
- Lower woodpecker
- upper woodpecker
- Highway to Hell
- Axle Alley
- Overdose
- Bad Medicine
- upper Ajax
- Middle Woody
This is a rough idea, It will be for fun , no entry fees. If I charge a fee then we will need to get a permit.
It may be possible to get donations for prizes.
I will need volunteers to help on the trails,
Let me know what you think
Todd McCullen
www.desertfab.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62423 From: bermboy2000 <bermboy@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:46pm
Subject: Re: On the Rocks Trail challenge
Sounds good to me too, just have to get a cage, Im guessing the
stocker wont do;P
Scott Maiden
93 YJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> Sounds good to me! I hope I get my job bonus soon so I can get my
winch:)
> Jim F.
>
> I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
member. "Groucho
> Marx"
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> http://www.rockrats.org/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TODD MCCULLEN [mailto:desertfab@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 9:33 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] On the Rocks Trail challenge
>
>
> Let me know who is interested!!
>
> I am in the process of putting together a fun day off wheeling!!
>
> On The Rocks Trail Challenge!!!
>
> " "Vehicle
Requirements"
>
> - Hard Lockers Frt. & Rear, No limited slips
> - 33" min. tire size
> - Winch
> - Full cage or hard top
> - First aid kit
> - Tow strap
> - Fire extiguisure
>
> Rules
>
> - teams of two rigs, ( both rigs must finish all trails to get
finish
> time )
> - If a break down occurs, rig must be moved to allow others to
get
> around.
> - There will bonus obstacles on certain trails to receive time
credits.
> - all rock stacking will need to be removed, be curtious to
other
> drivers.
> - There will be a tech inspection
> - Start times will be drawn from a hat
>
> Trails to be run
>
> - Lower woodpecker
> - upper woodpecker
> - Highway to Hell
> - Axle Alley
> - Overdose
> - Bad Medicine
> - upper Ajax
> - Middle Woody
>
> This is a rough idea, It will be for fun , no entry fees. If I
charge a
> fee then we will need to get a permit.
> It may be possible to get donations for prizes.
> I will need volunteers to help on the trails,
>
> Let me know what you think
>
> Todd McCullen
> www.desertfab.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
62424 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:50pm
Subject: [FS] SNUG TOP BED COVER
Price: 600.00 OBO
Contact: 602-980-1158 SMCMILLAN@SANDERSONFORD.COM
SNUP TOP BED COVER FOR 99-CURRENT F250-F550 FORD LONG BED TRUCK.COVER IS BRAND NEW WAS ONLY ON TRUCK ONE WEEK. HAVE ALL PARTS AND BRACKETS.
SCOTT MC MILLAN
602-980-1158
SMCMILLAN@SANDERSONFORD.COM
SCOTT MCMILLAN
62425 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:54pm
Subject: Crown King head count
Ok by my count we have 79 signed up on the main page. I clicked on all of
them then went to the trips separately and found 27 that were not high
lighted. So my count for today is 106 :) Looks like a lot of fun. Glad to
see so many members going with us. Jim F. BTW the early bird run will be the
best :O
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
62426 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 2:59pm
Subject: [TR] Crown King from Lake Pleasant - Saturday, August 17, 2002 - Reminder
Hello All,
Jim Florence is leading a Crown King from Lake Pleasant trail run on Saturday, August 17, 2002.
When: Many trip wiil be scheduled
Where: Meet at the end of Castle Hot springs road where it changes to dirt.
Rating: 3.0-
Length: All day
CB Channel: 4
This is the AZVCJ annual anniversary run to Crown King come join the fun. Last year we had about 100 Jeeps go on the trip. I will set things up with Crown King so they are prepared.
Anthony Celaya will be doing Lunch "The final decision for lunch is: (WARM) BBQ beef sandwich , coleslaw, pasta and soda for the price of $5.50. The half price for the collection is now $2.75, the remaining $2.75 will be collected at the register of the Switchback when we eat. Anthony made a mistake by saying the price was $5.00, and I'm sorry for the change, but I promise the $5.50 price will be the set price. so for those who want to participate in this lunch that Camille is putting together for us, all she's asking is for half of the cost per plate, per person so she could begin preparing and getting supplies. Anthony will be taking the collection to Crown King on the 11th of August but will start collecting on the 9th and 10th.
on the 9th, Anthony will be at the chilies parking lot on the s/e corner of Mill and University from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m..
on the 10th, He will also be on the s/w corner of Thomas and 75th Ave behind Olive Garden (Desert Sky Mall area) at 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m..
if you would like to mail it to Anthony Celaya, his address is on the VJC website under members (be sure to write your name and your guest name so Anthony can put you on the list). if you have any questions, feel free to contact Anthony at 602-438-0468. TIA
.
Sign up on this run if you plan to attend the AzVJC Anniversary Party in Crown King.
Then sign up on one of the trips to Crown King!
We need several more trip leaders at different times. I need everyone to sign up on this page so we have a count. Each trip leader should post the trip and the time they plan on running it please sign up on this page and the trip leaders page you plan on making. Thanks Hackle.
PLEASE have your State Recreation Permit. I know there are a large number
of AZVJC that already have permits but with the Land Dept "bending to your
requests to reopen STL's early......... please respect that by "wheel'n
legally".
Sandee has State Rec Permits (east valley)
4-Wheeler Supply on 35th street &; Washington
Driven Auto Parts on 35th Avenue, south of Van Buren
State Land Dept. at 1616 W. Adams
Public Lands Information Center at 222 N. Central, Phx
$15.00 per year for an individual (cannot be transfered and is for purchaser
ONLY)
$20.00 per year for a family (IMMEDIATE FAMILY ONLY..... purchaser, spouse &;
minor children)
This allows acces to 9.8 million acres of State Trust Land in
Arizona........ make that 9.7....... there are a few small pieces of STL
closed due to urban sprawl and/or EPA directives.
The Lake Pleasang to Crown King trail is a local favorite. On any given weekend, there will be numerous groups of four wheelers, ATV's and motorcycles heading to and from Crown King. It is a fun and scenic trail into the cooler pines of the Bradshaws. This trail was the first trip ever done by AzVJC.
The trail takes off from the Castle Hotsprings Rd and travels through the foot hills and up the side of the mountain, giving nice views of Lake Pleasant and the Valley. There are some tougher optional sections that can make it interesting.
The trail goes through the old ghost towns of Fort Misery and Oro Belle, both of which are remnants of the Mining era of the Bradshaw Mountains. All that remains now, are foundations and a few crumbling walls. Fort Misery makes a nice place to stop and eat lunch as the small creek usually has running water and there are trees to provide shade.
In the winter months, the trail from Fort Misery through Oro Belle to Crown King will often have snow and/or ice. In the summer, an early start is necessary to stay ahead of the rising temperatures.
Once on top of the mountain, the trail runs through the cool pines and into Crown King. In Crown King there are places to eat and have a drink, and a general store that sells some excellent fudge. The old Crown King Saloon was actually built in Oro Belle, and later hauled up (many years ago) to Crown King and rebuilt. In Oro Belle, the saloon was built into the side of the hill, so the upstairs were mainly accessable from the rear of the building (at ground level). The upstairs served as a place repose for women of ill fame.
There are campgrounds on top of the mountain near Crown King for those wishing to stay overnight. The fastest way down is via the main road which leads through Cleator and toward Bumble Bee. You can split off and go through Cordes Junction, which will get you to the Freeway quicker, or keep going strait and go through the little town of Bumble Bee.
Alternatively, you can take the Senator Highway toward Prescott or Mayer, this can be a very interesting trail during snow season. If you have the time, follow Towers Mountain rd through Crown King and up to the top of Towers Mountain, there are some excellent views and you can join back up with the Senator Highway afterward.
Have fun, remember to bring water and your camera.
Enjoy, and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
62427 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:12pm
Subject: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
Ms. Leonard,
I read your "A high-tech scavenger hunt" article in today's newspaper.
Although I am not a "geocacher", I am aware of the popularity it has gained
over the past years. With the improvements in GPS receivers and their drop
in price, it is certainly easy to be the proud owner of one of these little
beauties.
One item was incorrectly reported in your article. You stated (on page A2)
that "Geocaching began in May 2000 when the Clinton administration
unscrambled the electronic signals of the government-owned global
positioning sytem, allowing civilians to use devices to steer cars or find
missing hikers with pinpoint accuracy." While it is true that geocaching
may very well have started in May, 2000, it was not because of any actions
taken by the Clinton Administration. On or about May 1, 2002, then
President Clinton lifted the requirement that caused the intentional
degradation in the accuracy of the GPS signal. Neither he nor his
administration can be given any kind of credit for making the GPS technology
available to the civilian population and its subsequent use for steering
cars or finding lost hikers. I was using a consumer grade GPS receiver long
before May 1, 2000. As to your comment about it being able to steer a
car....no...no...no! Would you feel confident in a car with a "steering
system" that could guide your vehicle to within an accuracy of 6 to 20 feet?
(those are your numbers, not mine) Thank you but no....I prefer to "steer"
my vehicle with more precision than that. I am afraid that a 6 to 20 foot
error would very well put me into the path of dangerous oncoming traffic.
But, enough about the basics of GPS reception. I need to get to the point
of this correspondence.
As an environmentalist that fully enjoys virtually everything our public
lands have to offer, I am saddened to hear that some irresponsible people
are leaving their trash behind, making new trails, and even picking up
native artifacts they find in a geocache area. I wonder how many of these
people are familiar with the laws concerning removing an item from an
archaeological site? I can tell you, from first hand experience, that many
people have no idea that driving across the desert or up a big hill, where
there is no trail, is unlawful in most of Arizona. I can speak to people
leaving their trash behind....any road trip down I-10 or I-17 will yield
supporting evidence that people certainly do litter.
The main point I found quite interesting is the apparent blame that your
article places on those people that are participating in the geocaching
sport (I guess we can call it a sport?)
Let's first look at the facts you stated in the article:
1. There are at least 18 known Arizona caches listed on the Internet that
are on or near archaeological sites. (you didn't mention how many were
actually on a site)
2. There are more than 10,900 known archaeological sites in Maricopa
County.
3. There are more than 50,400 archaeological sites in Arizona, not
including those on Tribal lands.
4. You stated that most of the archaeological locations have been kept
secret for years, and officials have even required a new site steward to
sign a confidentiality agreement.
So...let me see if I understand what you are really saying.
1. 0.0357143% of the geocache sites are located on or near an
archaeological site in this state.
2. Virtually no one, except the trusted site stewards and specific land
management officials, no where the archaeological sites are.....and we have
one or two site stewards (that you interviewed) that are upset because three
and one half hundreths of just one percent of the total geocache sites in
Arizona happen to be put on these secret archaeological sites.
It is sad that the geocachers are being held up as those that are ruining
our archaeological sites but yet we won't tell them where the sites are so
they wouldn't accidentally put their cache "at or near" an archaeological
site. I realize this might very well be a damned if you do, damned if you
don't kind of situation, but please apply some common sense here. Your
article indicates that many of the Arizona geocaches are in remote
locations....places that are difficult to get to. So, we then say shame on
the geocachers for picking a challenging location to hide their
cache.....and when it just happens to be on a secret archaeological site
that no one told them about.....and it is their fault? You've got to be
kidding, right?
Maybe it is not quite as bad as I am led to believe? Perhaps another way to
look at it is:
1. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of our teenage population didn't
complete high school?
2. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of the people driving through a
Phoenix intersection ran the red light?
I do commend you for reporting that Mr. Brian Cluff, a person who helps run
AZgeocaching.com, has not been contacted or notified about the apparent
problem that is occuring at or near the secret archaeological sites.
However, it is sad that the amount of text you devoted to Mr. Cluff is
approximately 0.0357143% of your article. None the less....I am certain
that all reading it will in no way be biased by this.
Now that you have identified this problem, what are the paper's plans to
help correct it? From what was written, it appears that a strong push
towards educating those that enjoy geocaching would certainly go a long way
in correcting this problem. Perhaps some public awareness commercials on
the local TV stations (maybe even radio too) would make more aware of their
inapropriate actions. Remeber, we have people randomly hiding little
tuperware containers of goodies on secret archaeological sites that they
have no knowledge of.
I look forward to your next article that outlines the plans that will be
implemented to help curb this problem.
King Regards,
Stu Olson
Phoenix
62428 From: pebble007 <jawooten@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:22pm
Subject: Re: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
Nice reply to the article Stu. Another example of journalists not
comprhending the full scope of what they are reporting on or just not
caring.. Geo cacheing has been going on for awhile and it is not
until some weenie whines and get it printed in the paper with the
facts twisted or conveyed to one sides needs.
Again great reply.
Josh Wooten
99 TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Ms. Leonard,
>
> I read your "A high-tech scavenger hunt" article in today's
newspaper.
> Although I am not a "geocacher", I am aware of the popularity it
has gained
> over the past years. With the improvements in GPS receivers and
their drop
> in price, it is certainly easy to be the proud owner of one of
these little
> beauties.
>
> One item was incorrectly reported in your article. You stated (on
page A2)
> that "Geocaching began in May 2000 when the Clinton administration
> unscrambled the electronic signals of the government-owned global
> positioning sytem, allowing civilians to use devices to steer cars
or find
> missing hikers with pinpoint accuracy." While it is true that
geocaching
> may very well have started in May, 2000, it was not because of any
actions
> taken by the Clinton Administration. On or about May 1, 2002, then
> President Clinton lifted the requirement that caused the intentional
> degradation in the accuracy of the GPS signal. Neither he nor his
> administration can be given any kind of credit for making the GPS
technology
> available to the civilian population and its subsequent use for
steering
> cars or finding lost hikers. I was using a consumer grade GPS
receiver long
> before May 1, 2000. As to your comment about it being able to
steer a
> car....no...no...no! Would you feel confident in a car with
a "steering
> system" that could guide your vehicle to within an accuracy of 6 to
20 feet?
> (those are your numbers, not mine) Thank you but no....I prefer
to "steer"
> my vehicle with more precision than that. I am afraid that a 6 to
20 foot
> error would very well put me into the path of dangerous oncoming
traffic.
> But, enough about the basics of GPS reception. I need to get to
the point
> of this correspondence.
>
> As an environmentalist that fully enjoys virtually everything our
public
> lands have to offer, I am saddened to hear that some irresponsible
people
> are leaving their trash behind, making new trails, and even picking
up
> native artifacts they find in a geocache area. I wonder how many
of these
> people are familiar with the laws concerning removing an item from
an
> archaeological site? I can tell you, from first hand experience,
that many
> people have no idea that driving across the desert or up a big
hill, where
> there is no trail, is unlawful in most of Arizona. I can speak to
people
> leaving their trash behind....any road trip down I-10 or I-17 will
yield
> supporting evidence that people certainly do litter.
>
> The main point I found quite interesting is the apparent blame that
your
> article places on those people that are participating in the
geocaching
> sport (I guess we can call it a sport?)
>
> Let's first look at the facts you stated in the article:
>
> 1. There are at least 18 known Arizona caches listed on the
Internet that
> are on or near archaeological sites. (you didn't mention how many
were
> actually on a site)
>
> 2. There are more than 10,900 known archaeological sites in
Maricopa
> County.
>
> 3. There are more than 50,400 archaeological sites in Arizona, not
> including those on Tribal lands.
>
> 4. You stated that most of the archaeological locations have been
kept
> secret for years, and officials have even required a new site
steward to
> sign a confidentiality agreement.
>
>
> So...let me see if I understand what you are really saying.
>
> 1. 0.0357143% of the geocache sites are located on or near an
> archaeological site in this state.
>
> 2. Virtually no one, except the trusted site stewards and specific
land
> management officials, no where the archaeological sites are.....and
we have
> one or two site stewards (that you interviewed) that are upset
because three
> and one half hundreths of just one percent of the total geocache
sites in
> Arizona happen to be put on these secret archaeological sites.
>
> It is sad that the geocachers are being held up as those that are
ruining
> our archaeological sites but yet we won't tell them where the sites
are so
> they wouldn't accidentally put their cache "at or near" an
archaeological
> site. I realize this might very well be a damned if you do, damned
if you
> don't kind of situation, but please apply some common sense here.
Your
> article indicates that many of the Arizona geocaches are in remote
> locations....places that are difficult to get to. So, we then say
shame on
> the geocachers for picking a challenging location to hide their
> cache.....and when it just happens to be on a secret archaeological
site
> that no one told them about.....and it is their fault? You've got
to be
> kidding, right?
>
> Maybe it is not quite as bad as I am led to believe? Perhaps
another way to
> look at it is:
>
> 1. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of our teenage
population didn't
> complete high school?
>
> 2. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of the people driving
through a
> Phoenix intersection ran the red light?
>
> I do commend you for reporting that Mr. Brian Cluff, a person who
helps run
> AZgeocaching.com, has not been contacted or notified about the
apparent
> problem that is occuring at or near the secret archaeological sites.
> However, it is sad that the amount of text you devoted to Mr. Cluff
is
> approximately 0.0357143% of your article. None the less....I am
certain
> that all reading it will in no way be biased by this.
>
> Now that you have identified this problem, what are the paper's
plans to
> help correct it? From what was written, it appears that a strong
push
> towards educating those that enjoy geocaching would certainly go a
long way
> in correcting this problem. Perhaps some public awareness
commercials on
> the local TV stations (maybe even radio too) would make more aware
of their
> inapropriate actions. Remeber, we have people randomly hiding
little
> tuperware containers of goodies on secret archaeological sites
that they
> have no knowledge of.
>
> I look forward to your next article that outlines the plans that
will be
> implemented to help curb this problem.
>
> King Regards,
>
> Stu Olson
> Phoenix
62429 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:22pm
Subject: ot: website help again
Ok, I used Netscape to find a template of a site.......(thanks Joe West), but know the header on my site says I'm at Joe West's Home page. How do I get rid of that.........pay a copyright fee8>) Also, the links I put on my page don't bring up the pictures, just the dreaded red x's. How do I get those to work?
Thanks,
Mike
62430 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:31pm
Subject: Re: your article in AZRepupblic , 8/7/2002
Nicely done Stu! I was a little bent at that article this morning too.
Definately seemed out of whack but unfortunately I didn't have the time
or the knowledge to challenge the conclusions.
Gary Holmes
Stu Olson wrote:
>Ms. Leonard,
>
>I read your "A high-tech scavenger hunt" article in today's newspaper.
>Although I am not a "geocacher", I am aware of the popularity it has gained
>over the past years. With the improvements in GPS receivers and their drop
>in price, it is certainly easy to be the proud owner of one of these little
>beauties.
>
>One item was incorrectly reported in your article. You stated (on page A2)
>that "Geocaching began in May 2000 when the Clinton administration
>unscrambled the electronic signals of the government-owned global
>positioning sytem, allowing civilians to use devices to steer cars or find
>missing hikers with pinpoint accuracy." While it is true that geocaching
>may very well have started in May, 2000, it was not because of any actions
>taken by the Clinton Administration. On or about May 1, 2002, then
>President Clinton lifted the requirement that caused the intentional
>degradation in the accuracy of the GPS signal. Neither he nor his
>administration can be given any kind of credit for making the GPS technology
>available to the civilian population and its subsequent use for steering
>cars or finding lost hikers. I was using a consumer grade GPS receiver long
>before May 1, 2000. As to your comment about it being able to steer a
>car....no...no...no! Would you feel confident in a car with a "steering
>system" that could guide your vehicle to within an accuracy of 6 to 20 feet?
>(those are your numbers, not mine) Thank you but no....I prefer to "steer"
>my vehicle with more precision than that. I am afraid that a 6 to 20 foot
>error would very well put me into the path of dangerous oncoming traffic.
>But, enough about the basics of GPS reception. I need to get to the point
>of this correspondence.
>
>As an environmentalist that fully enjoys virtually everything our public
>lands have to offer, I am saddened to hear that some irresponsible people
>are leaving their trash behind, making new trails, and even picking up
>native artifacts they find in a geocache area. I wonder how many of these
>people are familiar with the laws concerning removing an item from an
>archaeological site? I can tell you, from first hand experience, that many
>people have no idea that driving across the desert or up a big hill, where
>there is no trail, is unlawful in most of Arizona. I can speak to people
>leaving their trash behind....any road trip down I-10 or I-17 will yield
>supporting evidence that people certainly do litter.
>
>The main point I found quite interesting is the apparent blame that your
>article places on those people that are participating in the geocaching
>sport (I guess we can call it a sport?)
>
>Let's first look at the facts you stated in the article:
>
>1. There are at least 18 known Arizona caches listed on the Internet that
>are on or near archaeological sites. (you didn't mention how many were
>actually on a site)
>
>2. There are more than 10,900 known archaeological sites in Maricopa
>County.
>
>3. There are more than 50,400 archaeological sites in Arizona, not
>including those on Tribal lands.
>
>4. You stated that most of the archaeological locations have been kept
>secret for years, and officials have even required a new site steward to
>sign a confidentiality agreement.
>
>
>So...let me see if I understand what you are really saying.
>
>1. 0.0357143% of the geocache sites are located on or near an
>archaeological site in this state.
>
>2. Virtually no one, except the trusted site stewards and specific land
>management officials, no where the archaeological sites are.....and we have
>one or two site stewards (that you interviewed) that are upset because three
>and one half hundreths of just one percent of the total geocache sites in
>Arizona happen to be put on these secret archaeological sites.
>
>It is sad that the geocachers are being held up as those that are ruining
>our archaeological sites but yet we won't tell them where the sites are so
>they wouldn't accidentally put their cache "at or near" an archaeological
>site. I realize this might very well be a damned if you do, damned if you
>don't kind of situation, but please apply some common sense here. Your
>article indicates that many of the Arizona geocaches are in remote
>locations....places that are difficult to get to. So, we then say shame on
>the geocachers for picking a challenging location to hide their
>cache.....and when it just happens to be on a secret archaeological site
>that no one told them about.....and it is their fault? You've got to be
>kidding, right?
>
>Maybe it is not quite as bad as I am led to believe? Perhaps another way to
>look at it is:
>
>1. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of our teenage population didn't
>complete high school?
>
>2. Wouldn't it be great if only 0.0357143% of the people driving through a
>Phoenix intersection ran the red light?
>
>I do commend you for reporting that Mr. Brian Cluff, a person who helps run
>AZgeocaching.com, has not been contacted or notified about the apparent
>problem that is occuring at or near the secret archaeological sites.
>However, it is sad that the amount of text you devoted to Mr. Cluff is
>approximately 0.0357143% of your article. None the less....I am certain
>that all reading it will in no way be biased by this.
>
>Now that you have identified this problem, what are the paper's plans to
>help correct it? From what was written, it appears that a strong push
>towards educating those that enjoy geocaching would certainly go a long way
>in correcting this problem. Perhaps some public awareness commercials on
>the local TV stations (maybe even radio too) would make more aware of their
>inapropriate actions. Remeber, we have people randomly hiding little
>tuperware containers of goodies on secret archaeological sites that they
>have no knowledge of.
>
>I look forward to your next article that outlines the plans that will be
>implemented to help curb this problem.
>
>King Regards,
>
>Stu Olson
>Phoenix
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
62431 From: David Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:35pm
Subject: Re: ot: website help again
go into html and look at the top should have <head> near it
----Original Message Follows----
From: "The Acuna Family" <mkacuna@c...>
To: "AzVJC Website" <azvjc@a...>
Subject: [az_vjc] ot: website help again
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:22:42 -0700
Ok, I used Netscape to find a template of a site.......(thanks Joe West),
but know the header on my site says I'm at Joe West's Home page. How do I
get rid of that.........pay a copyright fee8>) Also, the links I put on my
page don't bring up the pictures, just the dreaded red x's. How do I get
those to work?
Thanks,
Mike
__________________________________________________ _______________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
62432 From: Kyle Hagan <Kyle@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:38pm
Subject: High Tech scavenger hunt article.
I thought the list might be interested in what some of the people on AzGeocaching.com is responding about this article:
Perhaps the article should have been written about ATVs and 4x4s. We have noticed that there is a definite correlation in the amount of trash and the vehicle access. When you are in areas where you must travel by foot, there is a very small amount of trash. But when you are in areas where vehicles can go, there are always bud light cans by the case and a bunch of other crap one can only wonder why someone took the trouble to haul it way out there, unless it was to use it for target practice and leave it behind. We say TRASHY PEOPLE HAVE TRASHY WAYS. These are the same idiots who throw fast food wrappers out the window on I-17 thinking "someone" else will pick it up. I offer the following rewrite of the article:
An off road vehicle rampage has caused a panic among authorites who say the offroaders are destroying archaelogical sites around the state. Using jeeps and ATVs the slobs can literally drive right to more than 600 sites throughout arizona and vandalize artifacts and throw trash out the window....
Jean
roadrunners
62433 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:39pm
Subject: [FS] Wanted Black WindJammer
Price: ???
Contact: 602.791.9835
Need for 92 YJ,
Jason B
62434 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:41pm
Subject: Re: ot: website help again
Nice to hear from you David. Thanks, that worked. Now, how about them link
pics.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...>
To: <mkacuna@c...>; <azvjc@a...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ot: website help again
> go into html and look at the top should have <head> near it
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "The Acuna Family" <mkacuna@c...>
> To: "AzVJC Website" <azvjc@a...>
> Subject: [az_vjc] ot: website help again
> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:22:42 -0700
>
> Ok, I used Netscape to find a template of a site.......(thanks Joe West),
> but know the header on my site says I'm at Joe West's Home page. How do I
> get rid of that.........pay a copyright fee8>) Also, the links I put on
my
> page don't bring up the pictures, just the dreaded red x's. How do I get
> those to work?
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
62435 From: Robert Peck <rlpii@q...>
Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 3:50pm
Subject: Re: High Tech scavenger hunt article.
We, the OHV community, had better clean up our act, or we will be 4 wheeling in the Safeway parking lot.
The public doesn't hear about the good things we do (the clean-ups, fire run, search and rescues, etc.) and their perception is that we are the ones doing the damage.
"Perception Is Reality"
(No, I am not saying that we really do the damage, I'm just saying that their perception is their reality)
Bob
74 CJ-5
CANT W8
Kyle Hagan wrote:
I thought the list might be interested in what some of the people on AzGeocaching.com is responding about this article: Perhaps the article should have been written about ATVs and 4x4s. We have noticed that there is a definite correlation in the amount of trash and the vehicle access. When you are in areas where you must travel by foot, there is a very small amount of trash. But when you are in areas where vehicles can go, there are always bud light cans by the case and a bunch of other crap one can only wonder why someone took the trouble to haul it way out there, unless it was to use it for target practice and leave it behind. We say TRASHY PEOPLE HAVE TRASHY WAYS. These are the same idiots who throw fast food wrappers out the window on I-17 thinking "someone" else will pick it up. I offer the following rewrite of the article:
An off road vehicle rampage has caused a panic among authorites who say the offroaders are destroying archaelogical sites around the state. Using jeeps and ATVs the slobs can literally drive right to more than 600 sites throughout arizona and vandalize artifacts and throw trash out the window....
Jean
roadrunners
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.