9 Reported dead in Mall shooting

[azdesertrhino]

Exactly why law abiding citizens should arm themselves.

Could it have stopped this?

Don't know but I bet the families of the 9 reported dead wish they're loved ones would have had the chance and means to defend themselves!!

(Fox news now reporting 10 dead)

My heart goes out to the families!


Mall Shooting (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/05/mall.shooting/index.html?eref=time_us)

[amber.hodge]

Wow. Right in time for the holiday shopping with the recession....this won't be good for the economy, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, what a horrible loss for the families of those innocent people. :(

[Duality]

what kind of gun was used?

[Wind_Danzer]

Reported was rifle.

[knockonit]

Bummer, the antis will jump all over this,
Hey this tain't no recession, its just a slow down, when the recession hits, if it does you will know it, it will get ugly, I have been thru several in this valley and none are as memorable as the one in the 80's,
Hey its only gonna get better, cause " the sun will come out tomorrow, bet yere bottom dollar tomorrrow) ha
hey the ole fat guy knows things.

As far as the shooting, crazies cannot be stopped, you cannot stop anyone or thing that is willing to exchange their own life for others, you can only try.
Just wished there was more security on site, but again, we shouldn;t have to worry about this kind of thing happening.

Merry Christmas, and happy new year
If thats not polictically correct enough for you, you know what you can kiss to make a difference.

[Duality]

his sks was found. I just bought one of those... Creepy.

[John_P]

Don't know but I bet the families of the 9 reported dead wish they're loved ones would have had the chance and means to defend themselves!!


Actually, I would bet dollars to donuts they wish they were still alive. :yes:

[06GrnRubi]

Actually, I would bet dollars to donuts they wish they were still alive. :yes:

And they might be if law abiding citizens were allowed to carry firearms in the malls just like the criminals do.

[John_P]

And they might be if law abiding citizens were allowed to carry firearms in the malls just like the criminals do.

Gunfights in crowded holiday malls. Great idea. :aagh:

[mingoglia]

Gunfights in crowded holiday malls. Great idea. :aagh:

That's a bit insane John. If someone was going to commit a crime against someone and they walked in somewhere and every citizen was either wearing a sidearm (or there was a high likelyhood that someone had a concealed sidearm) they more than likely wouldn't even bother.

[azdesertrhino]

I wonder when people are going to enter the real world and get a clue.

Criminals do not care if guns are not supposed to be carried in malls, bars, certain banks etc. They will carry their weapons where they please.

The only individuals that adhere to the laws are the law abiding citizens, whether licensed to carry concealed or not.

The liberal left will have you believe that if they pass more laws against guns, the criminals will not be able to get guns. It only makes it harder for the law abiding citizen to arm and protect himself and family.

The criminals would love for our government to disarm every law abiding citizen. The would know for sure there would be no possible way the sheeple could protect or defend themselves.

[John_P]

This kid was SUICIDAL. Do you think citizens carrying guns would have made a difference in his decision? Remember...he wanted to be "famous"...

[Wildcat455]

This kid was SUICIDAL. Do you think citizens carrying guns would have made a difference in his decision? Remember...he wanted to be "famous"...

It would have went a LONG way to ensure he wasn't "Famous"...

The "potential" to end it before it started.

[mingoglia]

This kid was SUICIDAL. Do you think citizens carrying guns would have made a difference in his decision? Remember...he wanted to be "famous"...

Well perhaps he would have became famous from jumping off a bridge if he knew that by the time he pulled out his weapon someone would have taken him out... or perhaps he would have gone over to Canada and tried to become "famous" there.

I'm not saying armed citizens would have avoided a guy like this.... but as was pointed out earlier more gun laws isn't going to make this problem get any better. If we discovered a new island and decided to settle there and they made a law that no guns were allowed I might be more likely to buy into the idea.... but guns are here, and if you get "rid" of them only the criminals will have them. Hmmm, I wonder what happened when we tried to outlaw alcohol. hmmmm....

[Duality]

This kid was SUICIDAL. Do you think citizens carrying guns would have made a difference in his decision? Remember...he wanted to be "famous"...

perhaps someone could have killed him when he still had a body count of only 3-4??

[azdesertrhino]

OR LESS!




perhaps someone could have killed him when he still had a body count of only 3-4??

[Joe West]

You guys beat me to this post...

The anti-freedom movement will use this to further their cause, and more likely than not the frenzy (if there is one) will forget that had someone in the vicinity been carrying a concealed weapon legally; this shooting might have been curtailed early.

The truth is (as much as I hate to agree with John); even if everyone in the mall would have been carrying concealed, this guy would have found another way to kill people to be famous.... like running his vehicle into a crowd of holiday shoppers waiting in line or driving it through a fence at a school in a crowded playground (god... just saying this gives me the willies). There is simply no stopping people who do not value life and have an intent to kill.

I honestly believe if more citizens had been carrying in this mall; someone may (key word MAY) have stopped this idiot. I've argued this before and I'll argue it again; it is better to be carrying and have a choice whether or not to intervene in a situation with lethal force than not to have a choice.

My blood boils when this kind of crap happens... I can't imagine how the families are dealing with this. :(

Joe

[John_P]

I like some of the language in here...

"might have"

"potential"

"could have"

Ahh...the uncertainty of it all...

Let me ask you fellas...What if a CCW carry injured two people in "gunning down" the perp? What then?

I don't think a scenario like this can be predicted or have a solution that is so neat and clean as you make it "possibly" sound.

[Hardline]

Ahh...the uncertainty of it all...


Good point, John - that is what life is all about: uncertainty.

Personally I'm a person who prefers to have an option, as opposed to no options.

[Joe West]

Any other language would simply be incorrect, and you understand this better than most John. Most people who have a fair amount of education (as you do) under their belt understand that everything in life is best defined in probabilistic terms.

Few things are certain (assuming you define certain as I do; 100% probable)

JW

I like some of the language in here...

"might have"

"potential"

"could have"

Ahh...the uncertainty of it all...

Let me ask you fellas...What if a CCW carry injured two people in "gunning down" the perp? What then?

I don't think a scenario like this can be predicted or have a solution that is so neat and clean as you make it "possibly" sound.

[06GrnRubi]

This kid was SUICIDAL. Do you think citizens carrying guns would have made a difference in his decision? Remember...he wanted to be "famous"...

Wouldn't he have been more famous if he had gone into a police station and shooting a half dozen cops before killing himself?

Oh, wait a minute. Police stations are not gun free zones.

[knockonit]

Lots of talk about coulda woulda shoulda, it didn't and if a ccw carrier was present, and probably was or even an individual carrying illegally, he/she didn't show up as most won't, most people and gun users are trained to run from the sound of the shot, its shear survival on anyones part.
Very few, would run to the gun fire, heck most cops wont' so there can be a lot of chat about how, when and why, there is merit to all of it, with no answer to any of it.
Its one of the things that happen,(although it shouldn't) if he did not have a weapon as another poster stated, a car to a long line of shoppers or some other mass human destruction and death would have occurred.
Its a fact the antis will get on the bandwagon and ride it for all its possibilities
And a few of the families who lost someone will join in, which is there right, confusion will fill the anger and sadness of it all and for what, so some politicians and pro gunners, and anti gunners can have a day in the press.

Again there is no answer, it is almost impossible as was stated earlier to stop an individual or group that has decided to exchange their life for those of others.

We can only rant and rave about the pros and cons of coulda woulda shoulda.
It will be a long time before normalcy returns to the Omaha malls, and we as a society can only wish the families well and our condolences.
This is what helpless people do, when things beyond there control frighten them.

JMO

[SavageSun4x4]

We have had several gun killings of late and the anti's have said very little about it...Do you wonder why????

My guess is the Dims want them to keep a low profile. NOW is NOT the time to start big debates on guns. The antis and Dims DO NOT want to go on record on their stand on gun ownership, registration etc. In fact neither do most 'publicans.

But is the Dims and antis that are in bed together on this. On 10 January 2009 the :drummer: beat will begin and this "mall" incident will be addressed.

DimOkrat controlled congress + DimOkrat in the Presidents chair = You make the call. :skull:

[AZG23]

Media Coverage of Mall Shooting Fails to Reveal Mall's Gun-Free-Zone Status
Thursday , December 06, 2007

By John R. Lott, Jr.
The horrible tragedy at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb. received a lot of attention Wednesday and Thursday. It should have. Eight people were killed, and five were wounded.

A Google news search using the phrase "Omaha Mall Shooting" finds an incredible 2,794 news stories worldwide for the last day. From India and Taiwan to Britain and Austria, there are probably few people in the world who haven’t heard about this tragedy.

But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.

Surely, with all the reporters who appear at these crime scenes and seemingly interview virtually everyone there, why didn’t one simply mention the signs that ban guns from the premises?

Nebraska allows people to carry permitted concealed handguns, but it allows property owners, such as the Westroads Mall, to post signs banning permit holders from legally carrying guns on their property.

The same was true for the attack at the Trolley Square Mall in Utah in February (a copy of the sign at the mall can be seen here). But again the media coverage ignored this fact. Possibly the ban there was even more noteworthy because the off-duty police officer who stopped the attack fortunately violated the ban by taking his gun in with him when he went shopping.

Yet even then, the officer "was at the opposite end and on a different floor of the convoluted Trolley Square complex when the shooting began. By the time he became aware of the shooting and managed to track down and confront Talovic [the killer], three minutes had elapsed."

There are plenty of cases every year where permit holders stop what would have been multiple victim shootings every year, but they rarely receive any news coverage. Take a case this year in Memphis, where WBIR-TV reported a gunman started "firing a pistol beside a busy city street" and was stopped by two permit holders before anyone was harmed.

When will part of the media coverage on these multiple-victim public shootings be whether guns were banned where the attack occurred? While the media has begun to cover whether teachers can have guns at school or the almost 8,000 college students across the country who protested gun-free zones on their campuses, the media haven’t started checking what are the rules where these attacks occur.

Surely, the news stories carry detailed information on the weapon used (in this case, a rifle) and the number of ammunition clips (apparently, two). But if these aspects of the story are deemed important for understanding what happened, why isn’t it also important that the attack occurred where guns were banned? Isn’t it important to know why all the victims were disarmed?

Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed the legislation and openly talked about it.

No wonder, as the bill being debated would have allowed permitted guns to be carried on school property. It is quite a coincidence that he attacked the Columbine High School the very day the legislature was scheduled to vote on the bill.

Despite the lack of news coverage, people are beginning to notice what research has shown for years: Multiple-victim public shootings keep occurring in places where guns already are banned. Forty states have broad right-to-carry laws, but even within these states it is the "gun-free zones," not other public places, where the attacks happen.

People know the list: Virginia Tech saw 32 murdered earlier this year; the Columbine High School shooting left 13 murdered in 1999; Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had 23 who were fatally shot by a deranged man in 1991; and a McDonald's in Southern California had 21 people shot dead by an unemployed security guard in 1984.

All these attacks — indeed, all attacks involving more than a small number of people being killed — happened in gun-free zones.

In recent years, similar attacks have occurred across the world, including in Australia, France, Germany and Britain. Do all these countries lack enough gun-control laws? Hardly. The reverse is more accurate.

The law-abiding, not criminals, are obeying the rules. Disarming the victims simply means that the killers have less to fear. As Wednesday's attack demonstrated yet again, police are important, but they almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.

The longer it takes for someone to arrive on the scene with a gun, the more people who will be harmed by such an attack.

Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did.

[azdesertrhino]

The guy writing the article stole the ideas I've been stating for years!!

[GRUNT]

Taking arms away from everyone has proven not to work...
-Austrailia
-Great Britain

I can see John Ps concerns for evey maverick taking a CCW class weilding a firearm and believing they could put a stop to it... I have more firearm training than most, believe in the right to own and carry but I too have that concern. A lot of people get guns, take a weekend class, then go shoot bottles every weekend in the desert and then pray for the day someone kicks in their door or opens up in a store. Could it have helped? Sure, if the CCWs would have more than a weekend class, getting firm instruction to further their skills. Otherwise it could have looked like the "duck hunt" at the fair... IMHO

I believe in the right to carry, just wish that more of those that did were better trained so a dumb dirty harry doesn't shoot my baby's stroller...

[SavageSun4x4]

Taking arms away from everyone has proven not to work...
-Austrailia
-Great Britain

I can see John Ps concerns for evey maverick taking a CCW class weilding a firearm and believing they could put a stop to it...


I believe in the right to carry, just wish that more of those that did were better trained so a dumb dirty harry doesn't shoot my baby's stroller...

Highly unlikely scenario, but one in which the far left and Johnny-boy thinks is likely.

What is far more dangerous than guns and requires less training and KILLS and injures more folks? Driving a car and a drivers license.

In spite of all the training we give soldiers who are going into combat (Infantry) we still have a % that freeze when face to face with the enemy and or cannot "pull the trigger".

[HvyHau8272]

Anytime there is a crime or an issue involving guns there is always anti-gun cronies jumping on the ban wagon. The one FACT that everybody always forgets, is that there has NEVER EVER IN ANY HISTORY OF THE WORLD BEEN A GUN COMMITING A CRIME, but they always try to outlaw them anyway.

We fail to address the real problem, and that is the act of the crime itself
performed by people, not objects. If the country would stop this politically correct BS and actually prosecute people for thier crimes along with follwing through with the sentencing then criminals might think twice about the crimes they commit. When the sick thrill, or personal gain of the crime out wieghs the punishment then there is no deterrent to stop the crime.

If we as a country outlaw gun ownership then what is next? Your car, your jeep, your shovels, ballbats , ect, ect, ect. all of these items have been used to commit a crime at one time in the past. THE ISSUE IS NOT GUN CONTROLL IT'S CRIMINAL CONTROLL.

Why should I as a legal law biding citzen be chastised for the crimes of others? I will futher state that our 2nd Ammendment rights give me the abillity to ensure I will not be a unarmed victim!!!

[Joe West]

Well said.

It seems so obvious... how sad that so many miss the point.

JW


Anytime there is a crime or an issue involving guns there is always anti-gun cronies jumping on the ban wagon. The one FACT that everybody always forgets, is that there has NEVER EVER IN ANY HISTORY OF THE WORLD BEEN A GUN COMMITING A CRIME, but they always try to outlaw them anyway.

We fail to address the real problem, and that is the act of the crime itself
performed by people, not objects. If the country would stop this politically correct BS and actually prosecute people for thier crimes along with follwing through with the sentencing then criminals might think twice about the crimes they commit. When the sick thrill, or personal gain of the crime out wieghs the punishment then there is no deterrent to stop the crime.

If we as a country outlaw gun ownership then what is next? Your car, your jeep, your shovels, ballbats , ect, ect, ect. all of these items have been used to commit a crime at one time in the past. THE ISSUE IS NOT GUN CONTROLL IT'S CRIMINAL CONTROLL.

Why should I as a legal law biding citzen be chastised for the crimes of others? I will futher state that our 2nd Ammendment rights give me the abillity to ensure I will not be a unarmed victim!!!

[OlneyJeeps]

Gunfights in crowded holiday malls. Great idea. :aagh:

A one sided slaughter is always much more civilized. Croud shoud have been chided for running away... someone could have been smothered in mass confusion.... please move orderly towards an exit in single file.


Ok, what are the odds the off duty police officer who violated the law by carrying a gun in a gun free zone is cited / reprimanded / fired?

to go hypothetical, what would have happened if he, in stopping the killer, had accidently shot bystander or bystander was shot in "shoot out"?

one more: number or bystanders have become victims of "cross fire" of shoot outs vs number of innocents killed past first 90 seconds because no defense was available?

[John_P]

A one sided slaughter is always much more civilized.

Nice, but you missed the real intent of that comment...if one gun going off is a bad idea, then two seems a less desirable alternative.

[Wayco]

Nice, but you missed the real intent of that comment...if one gun going off is a bad idea, then two seems a less desirable alternative.

Not if it stops a deranged murderer. 1 shot, 1 kill. There are some that hold to that motto.

[OlneyJeeps]

Nice, but you missed the real intent of that comment...if one gun going off is a bad idea, then two seems a less desirable alternative.

Sorry John, think you missed intent of my comment: I would rather stand in a crowd returning fire than in a crowd being picked off like lambs at a slaughter house

But for someone with a gun, how long do you think (how many more dead) he would have continued?

Still waiting for crossfire death statistics

[John_P]

Sorry John, think you missed intent of my comment: I would rather stand in a crowd returning fire than in a crowd being picked off like lambs at a slaughter house

But for someone with a gun, how long do you think (how many more dead) he would have continued?

Still waiting for crossfire death statistics

No...I got it...two guns, twice as many bullets. Can't say I would be "standing around".

...and Steve, if you have a point to make with numbers, the burden is on you to provide them.

[SavageSun4x4]

...and Steve, if you have a point to make with numbers, the burden is on you to provide them.
Yea that is for sure...since you Johnny-boy since you find it next to impossible to validate any of your ludicrous claims and the rare times you do cough up a source it is often of. shall we say "dubious facts". :aagh: :aagh:

[azdesertrhino]

I'm sure John has some information from the Brady Bunch or others but thought a few of these articles were interesting reading!

How a gun could have saved my parents! (http://www.gunowners.org/sk0401.htm)

Sounds like someone I've read! (http://www.gunowners.org/sk0202.htm)

Media Blind To Guns Used To Stop School Killer (http://www.gunowners.org/sk0302.htm)

[AZG23]

Here is an eyewitness account....posted from another less sheepish forum I am on.

http://joemerchant24.blogspot.com/2007/12/firsthand-account-of-von-maur-shooting.html

Saturday, December 8, 2007
Firsthand account of the Von Maur shooting

The Shack has the privilege of being able to talk with one of the witnesses from the third floor of the Von Maur store at Westroads Mall in Omaha.

On the condition of anonymity, he has agreed to tell his account of what happened. He will only be identified by the moniker NW.

I was given the first draft of this account Thursday morning, 12/6/07. The only changes that have been made were mostly grammatical and organizational. NW's account has not changed. He has opted to leave any inaccuracies (such as the gun identification) as it was originally written in order to properly show how the mind works in this condition.

I have agreed to post his story account as is, with only minor edits for spelling and grammar. The bulk of this was written about 14 hours after the event occurred. There is an update at the end.

His story presents an interesting issue for CCW holders in such a situation: Shoot or no shoot. Hide or flee. Help or don’t help.

Please look at the post after this account as I have put up a practice drill (The Von Maur Drill) that is designed based on this man’s scenario.

With that, I now turn the blog over to NW.



The shooting
I took a later lunch that day because I had a noon phone meeting with a company out of New York, apparently we’re not on the same lunch schedule. I also planned to take a one-hour lunch that day, instead of a 30-minute lunch, so I could go to Van Maur and pick up some gifts for my wife. We were both there on the evening of Dec 03 with my 1-year-old daughter, and my wife tried on some coats and showed me some bath robes she liked, so I knew exactly what I was going for that day.

I asked a co-worker (named K for this story) for directions to Van Maur from my place of business. as she knew a faster route that would get me there quicker.

I left work around 1:15 to 1:20 and arrived at the front doors of Van Maur at 1:35 (shooting -7), I remember specifically looking at my watch as walked in. I came in the south entrance to Van Maur, right by the elevators.

I proceeded to 2nd floor using the escalator around 1:36 (shooting -6 minutes). I soon picked up a coat that my wife liked. I spent a couple

minutes there because I was still not completely sure about picking

the white coat or black coat. I checked my watch and realized time was

running out, so I picked the white one. This was about 1:39 (shooting

-3).





Then I again took the escalator to the third floor.I went over to the bath robes near the bra section, which is by

customer service. I was standing close to the north wall, by the east

corner. I walked around the robes a bit to see if there were any last

minute changes about what I wanted to get, then I proceeded to the

rack of robes that my wife had expressed interest in.





At this point I don't have a time line, but the events unfolded follows:


I heard gunshots, about 8. I knew exactly what they were, but my brain

didn't want me to believe it.





I looked towards the escalators because it sounded like they came from

there. I could not place the direction the shots came from because I

was surrounded by 4 walls and standing nearly in a corner.





I stood there for maybe 8 seconds (time enough to change a magazine),

then I heard several more shots. Somehow, then I focused in on the

shooter. He was towards the south wall, in the east corner, maybe 30

degrees to my left. He was about 30 yards away. He was shooting

towards the west and I had a nice side view of him.

He was wearing what looked like a solid green sleeveless vest, and was

shooting a semi-automatic rifle. I could see sleeves of a shirt that did not match the vest. The vest did not look military or camouflage, but to me looked green.






To me, at the time, I thought the rifle might be an AR15. One thing I

noticed, it appeared that the empty shells were ejecting out of the

left side of the gun instead of the right, which doesn't make sense

and could of been an illusion. All I could see were mostly the black

parts of the gun. The stock of the gun was the black frame style,

instead of a wood stock.





The shooter had brown or black hair, and I remember it being cut quite

Short, but not buzzed. He had the gun up to his cheek and was shooting in rapid

succession doing quick maneuvers with the gun. At first, It went

through my mind that this guy was some sort of military and this was a

terrorist attack. I could see the shells ejecting from the gun.





The way he was walking and shooting, calmly, no yelling, made me think that there was more than one shooter and they were performing a "clean sweep". He was aiming down the barrel of the gun, and shooting rapidly.





At this point, I stared for nearly 5 seconds, until I turned and

ducked down and started running. I want to make note of this point in

time, as I will come back to it.





I was running towards the north wall and somehow making my way farther

towards the east wall at the same time, putting myself in the corner

even more. There were maybe five people who started walking fast

looking in the direction of the shooter. I am not sure if they could

see him or just heard the commotion. When they saw that I was running

like heck, others started running, too.





People were running into the dressing rooms. I got near the door and

decided that is not where I wanted to be. I ran west a few yards

uncertain of what to do or where to go. I was trapped. But then I

focused in on an emergency exit and ran out of it. The alarm sounded.

It was loud, but I think it was only an alarm attached to the door, not sure if it set the whole store alarms off, but they were loud shreiking alarms, not continuous, but a pulse type alarm.



I ended up in some gray hallway with a set of stairs and very little room to move side to side. I ran down one set of stairs to 2nd floor.



There was a door there and I almost went through it. But I heard more

gunshots that sounded like they were on the other side of the door. I

believe I turned and I jumped over the stair railing to the next landing, skipping

the stairs completely. I do not remember the impact, and I do not

remember if I jumped down a whole floor, or ran down the first half of

the stairs and jumped down the rest. I am not certain of this point due to the fear I felt at this point after hearing more gunshots I thought was on 2nd floor, confirming in my mind there were multiple shooters.


I ran down a small hallway and found a door to the outside, but it would not open. It was a double door with a push bar. At this point, I had to make a decision. Do I wait here or get out?

I didn’t know what or who was on the other side of the door, and but I decided to go for it because I was trapped at the end of a hallway with no where to go. I pushed the door hard and it still would not give, so I kicked the push bar and the door flung open.

I was now outside, on Van Maur’s loading dock on the east side, I looked to my right and there was a long trash can close to the wall. I jumped over a rail, off the dock between the garbage can and the wall. I ran along this until I came to the end of both the garbage can and wall. I then realized that I was still carrying the coat I was going to by my wife. For some reason, I decided to drop it, and probably ruined it.

Then I ran out into the parking lot, which is between the mall and the parking garage. I didn’t know what to do next. I tried to call 911 on my phone with no luck. I yelled to some guy to call 911. Then I asked him if he had a gun I could use. I was freaking out, and in reality probably would not have gone back in. However, I was worried about someone picking off people in the lot, or coming out charging with guns firing. I had no idea how many shooters were in there.

I borrowed a lady’s cell phone, and she was worried I was going to run off with it. But 911 was busy, so I knew people were probably called. It took FOREVER for the cops to get there, I estimated the time as10 minutes but the news says 6.

During this time I did not know what to do. I almost just went for my car and left, but I realized that couldn’t be right. It was like someone pulled a fire alarm at the store, so I thought about just leaving and let everyone else figure it out. I decided that was the wrong thing to do..

I walked around to the north side and saw all the cops loading up. I yelled to them, “I saw what is going on. The guy has an M-16 type gun. If you need information, I can give it or else I am outta here.” A police lieutenant pulled me aside and I ended up in a cop car.

Minutes later another witness joined me. She said she was right beside me on the 3rd floor before the shooting. We were both very shaken up. My lungs were burning because I nearly did a full sprint down 3 floors. The cold air hit my lungs hard.

I was later taken to J.C. Penney and interviewed. At first, the interviewer was taking notes, but when he realized how involved I was I had start over, this time with a tape recorder running

I was then escorted to my car and I stopped back by work. I arrived at work around 4pm, which means my interview ended around 3:30 – 3:45.


My feelings

When I heard the first round of gunshots, I knew what they were but didn’t want to believe it. I tried to think that they were balloons or fireworks. However, I definitely took a defensive stance ready to run.

When I saw the shooter, I stood there for nearly 5 seconds just watching.

Why?

First, he was firing 90 degrees away from me. The thing is, this image was nothing new to me. I see people shooting all the time at the range, on TV, in video games. But what my brain was having a hard time processing was that was Van Maur.

Now back to the point I referenced earlier.

Honestly, and as God as my witness, when I saw him shooting and as watched for a few seconds trying to figure out what he was going to do and what I should do, the thought that when through my mind was, “If I had a gun, I have a perfect shot.”

Yes, a perfect shot. I had a full side profile, I was close, and no one was visible behind him execept a wall. I had a clear shot during the second round of fire. I told this to every cop I came in contact with. The interviewer agreed.

When I realized that I had no gun, fear instantly struck me, along with anger, and severe panic.

I ran hard.

I did not think to try to help people, I just got out.

While I was running, I kept hearing shots. In my mind, I could see myself getting shot in the back, bullets ripping through me and blood spraying in front of me.

Interestingly, I was still able to make decisions. I knew the dressing room was a bad place. When I realized I was trapped in a corner, more fear set in and I almost went for the dressing room, but then I saw the emergency exit.

I instantly started second-guessing that decision as well. For all I knew, there were more shooters waiting for people to try to escape. But realizing that I was wide open to attack, I ran out the emergency door.

As I ran down the stairs, all kinds of thoughts started occurring. What if a shooter was coming up the stairs? What if one followed me down? Every decision I made was second-guessed, should I just stop or keep going?

[AZG23]

often all it takes is one person to act, in the right place, at the right time...with the NEEDED equiptment!