blooddrive
01-05-2004, 09:25 PM
62211-62235
62211 From: <tlafrance@j...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 0:58pm
Subject: Driveline service
From what I understand, Dick moved to Show Low to open a shop (Mtn View Driveline) up there and left the Phx shop for his wife to run. She has her brother and a few other relatives working there also. The help that KNOWS how to perform quality work has been cut to part time 3 days a week as a result.
There is a small shop in Mesa called "Gold Star" located on Center just north of Southern. He gives GREAT personalized service and will build ANYTHING from wild to mild.
Phone # 480-649-0705 ask for Ray and tell him you're from the "Jeep" club :-)
Tom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
62212 From: parajeeper02 <parajeeper02@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:11pm
Subject: Re: What was the larger oil filter # that fit Jeeps?
Nick -
I believe it was a Fram PH8A and a Mobil 1 M1-301.
- Eric
--- In az_vjc@y..., "nnotes" <nnote@a...> wrote:
> I have a 93yj 4Cyl. The Mobil 1 oil filter size for mine is the
> 204. I wanted to get the larger oil filter that someone here
fiqured
> out fit. What was the number for it?
> Nick
62213 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:15pm
Subject: RE: Re: What was the larger oil filter # that fit Jeeps?
Eric,
Right on that's the one.
Nick,
That is what fits in my Jeep.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: parajeeper02 [mailto:parajeeper02@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: What was the larger oil filter # that fit Jeeps?
Nick -
I believe it was a Fram PH8A and a Mobil 1 M1-301.
- Eric
--- In az_vjc@y..., "nnotes" <nnote@a...> wrote:
> I have a 93yj 4Cyl. The Mobil 1 oil filter size for mine is the
> 204. I wanted to get the larger oil filter that someone here
fiqured
> out fit. What was the number for it?
> Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62214 From: rabenius2001 <jrabenius@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:16pm
Subject: Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
Allan,
How often do you go fourwheeling?
What kind of fourwheeling do you do?
If all you do is slow rock crawling on the trails here in Phoenix,
you should be able to use the OR Fab sport kit.
A weld in cage is stronger than a bolt together one.
It also depends on what kind of tubing the cage is made out of.
You can use several different types of tube for building a cage. HREW
is hot rolled electronically welded, and has a yield strength of
40,000 PSI. It will either be 1018 or 1020 mild steel. DOM is drawn
over mandrel, is seamless, and has a yield strength of 70,000 PSI,
almost twice as strong (same O.D., same wall thickness). It will
either be 1020, or 1026 steel.
ARCA rules state that a cage must be nade from 1 1/2" O.D. DOM
tubing, minimum. Not that we are all going to compete.
Most of the aftermarket cages are made from mild steel (HREW) seam
tubing.
While this is always better than nothing, a custom cage built from
DOM seamless tubing that welds to the frame is the best.
The problem is that a custom DOM tubed cage that ties into the frame
would cost more than $1000, and would almost surely not use the
factory bar.
How much do you want to spend, and can you justify the extra expense
of the weld in DOM tubed cage?
To give you an idea of the difference in the material cost alone,
Capital Metals sells a 20 foot length of mild steel seam tubing (HREW)
for $1.10 a foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That's $22.00 for a 20
foot stick.
DOM mild steel seamless tube is twice as strong, but costs $2.90 a
foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That is $58.00 for a 20 foot stick.
If you like high speed dirt road running, the DOM cage is the only
way to go. It is stronger, and is made from stronger material.
Ask John at Hunter offroad what he uses to make the cage pieces from.
I think he generally uses mild steel (HREW)seam tubing, not DOM. This
is fine for most of the population. I'm sure if you asked him, he
would make the cage from DOM, but it will cost you almost 3 time as
much.
The harder you use your vehicle, the more you will need to have a
better stronger cage.
Either the bolt in OR Fab kit or Hunter's custom fabbed cage would
work well.
One last thought: The O.R. fab cage kit comes powdercoated in black.
The hunter custom fabbed cage can be powder coated, but you would
have to strip the stock roll bar first, and then powdercoat the whole
thing (assuming John welds the front cage part to the stock roll
bar). Big hastle.
62215 From: zj_lopez <off-road@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:20pm
Subject: Re: State Land Permits
Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them, forgot
to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land Use
Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
very strict in that area about the permits.
> You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single.
> I think that your hunting license is also good for access to State
Land.
62216 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:22pm
Subject: Re: Want to buy Old Jeep
YOUR IN LUCK!!! There is a girl trying to sell her CJ-8 for $2,500
OBO... I'll betcha you guys can work something out!! LOL ;) -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Houk" <david.houk@o...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I know of someone looking to buy an older jeep. He
wants a
> narrow axle, CJ-5, CJ-7 or older, just to bum around in, for
hunting,
> etc. Stock or mostly stock. Something from the 50's, 60's or 70's
would
> be okay. (1982 was the last year for the narrow axles.) He is
willing
> to pay up to $3500 maximum, depending on condition. He name is
Steve
> Miller and his number is 480-892-4861. Please contact him directly
if
> you know of any jeep like this for sale.
>
> Thanks, David
62217 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:40pm
Subject: RE: State Land Permits
>>>I think that your hunting license is also good for access to State Land.
Only true when you are in the middle of hunting season and actively hunting. If this rule gets abused enough, they will pull it and everyone will be buying permits, no exceptions.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
----- Original Message -----
From: LONNIE PAUGH
To: 'AZVJC'
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:41 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] State Land Permits
Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land Use Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were very strict in that area about the permits.
You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single.
I think that your hunting license is also good for access to State Land.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62218 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
Wow. That's great information, John. Thanks for the education.
As for the powdercoating hassle, another option is to get some
paint made to match the factory cage and packaged in spray cans.
Then simply spray the new part of the cage to match the factory
part.
-Roger
rabenius2001 wrote:
>
> Allan,
>
> How often do you go fourwheeling?
>
> What kind of fourwheeling do you do?
>
> If all you do is slow rock crawling on the trails here in Phoenix,
> you should be able to use the OR Fab sport kit.
>
> A weld in cage is stronger than a bolt together one.
>
> It also depends on what kind of tubing the cage is made out of.
>
> You can use several different types of tube for building a cage. HREW
> is hot rolled electronically welded, and has a yield strength of
> 40,000 PSI. It will either be 1018 or 1020 mild steel. DOM is drawn
> over mandrel, is seamless, and has a yield strength of 70,000 PSI,
> almost twice as strong (same O.D., same wall thickness). It will
> either be 1020, or 1026 steel.
>
> ARCA rules state that a cage must be nade from 1 1/2" O.D. DOM
> tubing, minimum. Not that we are all going to compete.
>
> Most of the aftermarket cages are made from mild steel (HREW) seam
> tubing.
>
> While this is always better than nothing, a custom cage built from
> DOM seamless tubing that welds to the frame is the best.
>
> The problem is that a custom DOM tubed cage that ties into the frame
> would cost more than $1000, and would almost surely not use the
> factory bar.
>
> How much do you want to spend, and can you justify the extra expense
> of the weld in DOM tubed cage?
>
> To give you an idea of the difference in the material cost alone,
> Capital Metals sells a 20 foot length of mild steel seam tubing (HREW)
> for $1.10 a foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That's $22.00 for a 20
> foot stick.
>
> DOM mild steel seamless tube is twice as strong, but costs $2.90 a
> foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That is $58.00 for a 20 foot stick.
>
> If you like high speed dirt road running, the DOM cage is the only
> way to go. It is stronger, and is made from stronger material.
>
> Ask John at Hunter offroad what he uses to make the cage pieces from.
> I think he generally uses mild steel (HREW)seam tubing, not DOM. This
> is fine for most of the population. I'm sure if you asked him, he
> would make the cage from DOM, but it will cost you almost 3 time as
> much.
>
> The harder you use your vehicle, the more you will need to have a
> better stronger cage.
>
> Either the bolt in OR Fab kit or Hunter's custom fabbed cage would
> work well.
>
> One last thought: The O.R. fab cage kit comes powdercoated in black.
> The hunter custom fabbed cage can be powder coated, but you would
> have to strip the stock roll bar first, and then powdercoat the whole
> thing (assuming John welds the front cage part to the stock roll
> bar). Big hastle.
62219 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
Good info in here, except I'm pretty sure that ARCA does NOT require DOM-
HREW is fine currently.
At 08:16 PM 8/5/2002 +0000, rabenius2001 wrote:
>Allan,
>
>How often do you go fourwheeling?
>
>What kind of fourwheeling do you do?
>
>If all you do is slow rock crawling on the trails here in Phoenix,
>you should be able to use the OR Fab sport kit.
>
>A weld in cage is stronger than a bolt together one.
>
>It also depends on what kind of tubing the cage is made out of.
>
>You can use several different types of tube for building a cage. HREW
>is hot rolled electronically welded, and has a yield strength of
>40,000 PSI. It will either be 1018 or 1020 mild steel. DOM is drawn
>over mandrel, is seamless, and has a yield strength of 70,000 PSI,
>almost twice as strong (same O.D., same wall thickness). It will
>either be 1020, or 1026 steel.
>
>ARCA rules state that a cage must be nade from 1 1/2" O.D. DOM
>tubing, minimum. Not that we are all going to compete.
>
>Most of the aftermarket cages are made from mild steel (HREW) seam
>tubing.
>
>While this is always better than nothing, a custom cage built from
>DOM seamless tubing that welds to the frame is the best.
>
>The problem is that a custom DOM tubed cage that ties into the frame
>would cost more than $1000, and would almost surely not use the
>factory bar.
>
>How much do you want to spend, and can you justify the extra expense
>of the weld in DOM tubed cage?
>
>To give you an idea of the difference in the material cost alone,
>Capital Metals sells a 20 foot length of mild steel seam tubing (HREW)
>for $1.10 a foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That's $22.00 for a 20
>foot stick.
>
>DOM mild steel seamless tube is twice as strong, but costs $2.90 a
>foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That is $58.00 for a 20 foot stick.
>
>If you like high speed dirt road running, the DOM cage is the only
>way to go. It is stronger, and is made from stronger material.
>
>Ask John at Hunter offroad what he uses to make the cage pieces from.
>I think he generally uses mild steel (HREW)seam tubing, not DOM. This
>is fine for most of the population. I'm sure if you asked him, he
>would make the cage from DOM, but it will cost you almost 3 time as
>much.
>
>The harder you use your vehicle, the more you will need to have a
>better stronger cage.
>
>Either the bolt in OR Fab kit or Hunter's custom fabbed cage would
>work well.
>
>One last thought: The O.R. fab cage kit comes powdercoated in black.
>The hunter custom fabbed cage can be powder coated, but you would
>have to strip the stock roll bar first, and then powdercoat the whole
>thing (assuming John welds the front cage part to the stock roll
>bar). Big hastle.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62220 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:47pm
Subject: RE: Driveline service
Tom,
Thanks for the info. Assuming that is true, it does help explain why
things have gone down hill, quality wise. I obviously didn't end up
with one of those part time guys that knew how to do it. (with my luck,
I got the under age nephew that was helping during Easter break!)
TC!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: tlafrance@j... [mailto:tlafrance@j...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 12:59 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Driveline service
From what I understand, Dick moved to Show Low to open a shop (Mtn View
Driveline) up there and left the Phx shop for his wife to run. She has
her brother and a few other relatives working there also. The help that
KNOWS how to perform quality work has been cut to part time 3 days a
week as a result.
There is a small shop in Mesa called "Gold Star" located on Center just
north of Southern. He gives GREAT personalized service and will build
ANYTHING from wild to mild.
Phone # 480-649-0705 ask for Ray and tell him you're from the "Jeep"
club :-)
Tom
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62221 From: weasel_ugs <weaselugs@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Ideas on new rear end!
But how much stress wil be put on that rear end?Doesnt look like it
will go anywhere but out of garage to a trailer. Don
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Michael Lake" <xjcountry93@m...> wrote:
> The folks at NAXJA brought up the idea of an 8" Toyota and I did a
search and found this big truck http://www.truckworld.com/4x4-
OffRoad/Thumper-Toyota/4x4-Toyota.html
>
> Michael!
> Green Cherokee'
> 93 Country 2 door
>
> If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself,
is it considered a hostage situation?Get more from the Web. FREE MSN
Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
62222 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:54pm
Subject: Re: Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
Also, John has used CREW in the past. I sent a long e-mail here (az_vjc),
explaining all the differences, etc., a while ago (maybe 2 months back). I
was specifically into response to the use of CREW and why it's not as
"strong" as the HREW. Also there was some discussion regarding the wall
thinkness uniformity between the three, and how HREW can have better wall
thickness uniformity than DOM.
For the wheeling that we do, DOM is probably way overkill. Nothing wrong
with it, if you have the $$$$, but certainly not needed.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daver" <daver@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
> Good info in here, except I'm pretty sure that ARCA does NOT require DOM-
> HREW is fine currently.
>
> At 08:16 PM 8/5/2002 +0000, rabenius2001 wrote:
> >Allan,
> >
> >How often do you go fourwheeling?
> >
> >What kind of fourwheeling do you do?
> >
> >If all you do is slow rock crawling on the trails here in Phoenix,
> >you should be able to use the OR Fab sport kit.
> >
> >A weld in cage is stronger than a bolt together one.
> >
> >It also depends on what kind of tubing the cage is made out of.
> >
> >You can use several different types of tube for building a cage. HREW
> >is hot rolled electronically welded, and has a yield strength of
> >40,000 PSI. It will either be 1018 or 1020 mild steel. DOM is drawn
> >over mandrel, is seamless, and has a yield strength of 70,000 PSI,
> >almost twice as strong (same O.D., same wall thickness). It will
> >either be 1020, or 1026 steel.
> >
> >ARCA rules state that a cage must be nade from 1 1/2" O.D. DOM
> >tubing, minimum. Not that we are all going to compete.
> >
> >Most of the aftermarket cages are made from mild steel (HREW) seam
> >tubing.
> >
> >While this is always better than nothing, a custom cage built from
> >DOM seamless tubing that welds to the frame is the best.
> >
> >The problem is that a custom DOM tubed cage that ties into the frame
> >would cost more than $1000, and would almost surely not use the
> >factory bar.
> >
> >How much do you want to spend, and can you justify the extra expense
> >of the weld in DOM tubed cage?
> >
> >To give you an idea of the difference in the material cost alone,
> >Capital Metals sells a 20 foot length of mild steel seam tubing (HREW)
> >for $1.10 a foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That's $22.00 for a 20
> >foot stick.
> >
> >DOM mild steel seamless tube is twice as strong, but costs $2.90 a
> >foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That is $58.00 for a 20 foot stick.
> >
> >If you like high speed dirt road running, the DOM cage is the only
> >way to go. It is stronger, and is made from stronger material.
> >
> >Ask John at Hunter offroad what he uses to make the cage pieces from.
> >I think he generally uses mild steel (HREW)seam tubing, not DOM. This
> >is fine for most of the population. I'm sure if you asked him, he
> >would make the cage from DOM, but it will cost you almost 3 time as
> >much.
> >
> >The harder you use your vehicle, the more you will need to have a
> >better stronger cage.
> >
> >Either the bolt in OR Fab kit or Hunter's custom fabbed cage would
> >work well.
> >
> >One last thought: The O.R. fab cage kit comes powdercoated in black.
> >The hunter custom fabbed cage can be powder coated, but you would
> >have to strip the stock roll bar first, and then powdercoat the whole
> >thing (assuming John welds the front cage part to the stock roll
> >bar). Big hastle.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62223 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:53pm
Subject: RE: Re: State Land Permits
Jose,
IMO, anyone that wheels in Arizona needs to have a STL permit. It is a
no-brainer decision to get one. Call 602-542-4631 (Phoenix) or
520-628-5480 (Tucson) or 520-774-1425 (Flagstaff) and have an
application sent to your house. Most folks (including me half of the
time) don't know if they are on or off STL when running a trail.
However...we all know that many of our favorite trails are on or cut
across STL. Not having one is silly, given the $20 cost for a family
permit. Mine expires in approximately two weeks and my renewal is in
the mail, as I type.
TC!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:20 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them, forgot
to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land Use
Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
very strict in that area about the permits.
> You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single.
> I think that your hunting license is also good for access to State
Land.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62224 From: my2001tj <my2001tj@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:57pm
Subject: Drive shaft
Im getting a SYE this week and need a drive shaft any good shops? And
Stu or anyone how long dose the install on a sye take? Have one other
guy to help me.
Thank you Dean
62225 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:02pm
Subject: RE: Drive shaft
I would NOT recommend Dicks Driveshaft (whose part time help that knows
how to make drive shafts may or may not be the person that does yours!)
LOL
I don't know who long the SYE should take as I have not done one myself
(I know, surprising isn't it? LOL) My used t-case from JoeW came with
a SYE on it. :)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: my2001tj [mailto:my2001tj@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:57 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Drive shaft
Im getting a SYE this week and need a drive shaft any good shops? And
Stu or anyone how long dose the install on a sye take? Have one other
guy to help me.
Thank you Dean
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62226 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:05pm
Subject: [FS] Large hole Dana -18 t-case
Price: $200
Contact: Matt Bolton, 602-502-4865
Dana / Spicer model 18 transfercase.
Large hole index (4”) case
Rebuilt and never used
$200
Matt Bolton
602-502-4865
Matt Bolton
62227 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:15pm
Subject: Re: Drive shaft
Plan on at least 4 hours for your first time. The time is cut in half
with experience. Here is my write on Stu's page ;) http://www.stu-
offroad.com/sye/sye-1.htm
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "my2001tj" <my2001tj@y...> wrote:
> Im getting a SYE this week and need a drive shaft any good shops?
And
> Stu or anyone how long dose the install on a sye take? Have one
other
> guy to help me.
>
>
> Thank you Dean
62228 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:33pm
Subject: Alignmeng Guy Needed (Can't remember name)
Who is our alignment guy that is on our list. Please call me on my cell
phone 602-373-2911. Needing some help. Thanks.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
62229 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:53pm
Subject: RE: Toys By Troy Roll Cage
Whether or not its going to cause a problem is unknown yet. In my
opinion though it would seem better to have a single bolt on each corner
of the windshield.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Daver [mailto:daver@c...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 10:12 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Toys By Troy Roll Cage
My YJ has had a cage without a windshield support for 3-4 years now, I
haven't had any trouble with it wobbling or flopping up to my max speed
of
about 80-85 MPH. My CJ5's full cage didn't have any windshield support
either, and it was rock solid up to its max speed of about 60-65MPH.
FWIW.
At 09:52 AM 8/5/2002 -0700, Roger Tomas wrote:
>My windshield is not attached to my cage - it is only attached at the
>hinge. It does not flop around. In fact, it seems pretty solid. If
>you think about it, CJ's were all this way too.
>
>-Roger
>
>Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> > Having installed both of these cages (Troy and ORF) I will throw in
> > my 2 cents. Both appear to be pretty equal in most aspects. But the
> > one thing I do not like about the one from Troy is that there is no
> > bracket bracing the windshield. The only thing keeping the
> > windshiled from flopping around is the bolt on each hinge. The top
> > side is completely free. The windshield wobbles around.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62230 From: JML2112 DESERTRAT <JML2112@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Driveline service
I have used Gold Star in Mesa and was very satisfied with Ray's work>
Jeff Lewis
74 CJ5 east Mesa
>From: tlafrance@juno.com
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Driveline service
>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:58:42 GMT
>
>From what I understand, Dick moved to Show Low to open a shop (Mtn View Driveline) up there and left the Phx shop for his wife to run. She has her brother and a few other relatives working there also. The help that KNOWS how to perform quality work has been cut to part time 3 days a week as a result.
>
>There is a small shop in Mesa called "Gold Star" located on Center just north of Southern. He gives GREAT personalized service and will build ANYTHING from wild to mild.
>Phone # 480-649-0705 ask for Ray and tell him you're from the "Jeep" club :-)
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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62231 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:03pm
Subject: RE: Re: State Land Permits
This topic comes up a lot on this list. I don't feel it's the
responsibility of the trip leader to check for permits. I know that my
closest friends and I all carry valid permits. I will recommend that any
newbies I meet get a STL permit. But for most people I leave it up to
them. It's not my job to enforce these rules.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:54 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
Jose,
IMO, anyone that wheels in Arizona needs to have a STL permit. It is a
no-brainer decision to get one. Call 602-542-4631 (Phoenix) or
520-628-5480 (Tucson) or 520-774-1425 (Flagstaff) and have an
application sent to your house. Most folks (including me half of the
time) don't know if they are on or off STL when running a trail.
However...we all know that many of our favorite trails are on or cut
across STL. Not having one is silly, given the $20 cost for a family
permit. Mine expires in approximately two weeks and my renewal is in
the mail, as I type.
TC!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:20 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them, forgot
to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land Use
Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
very strict in that area about the permits.
> You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single. I think
> that your hunting license is also good for access to State
Land.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62232 From: zj_lopez <off-road@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:07pm
Subject: Re: State Land Permits
Stu:
I could not agree more, I got mine the next day I found out that I
needed one, it was easier for me to pick it up, rather than doing it
by mail because I work close to the State Land Office. Before I ran
Bulldog Canyon I got that permit too, that my take on things. I just
thought that maybe we could exhort some kind of "peer pressure"
asking about them before we start a trail. Obviously people can lie
and say they have them when they don't, but imagine the embarrassment
if a group got pulled over and someone claiming they had one did
not?. I'd be kind of funny don't you think?
If doing things the right way is not incentive enough, then maybe
thinking that the money they spent on the fine could have been used
to buy that "last" mod to their rig might settle it for them. :)
Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Jose,
>
> IMO, anyone that wheels in Arizona needs to have a STL permit. It
is a
> no-brainer decision to get one. Call 602-542-4631 (Phoenix) or
> 520-628-5480 (Tucson) or 520-774-1425 (Flagstaff) and have an
> application sent to your house. Most folks (including me half of
the
> time) don't know if they are on or off STL when running a trail.
> However...we all know that many of our favorite trails are on or cut
> across STL. Not having one is silly, given the $20 cost for a
family
> permit. Mine expires in approximately two weeks and my renewal is
in
> the mail, as I type.
>
> TC!
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:20 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
>
> Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
> their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
> trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
> wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them,
forgot
> to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> > Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
> they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land
Use
> Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
> very strict in that area about the permits.
> > You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> > 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
> office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> > The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single.
> > I think that your hunting license is also good for access to
State
> Land.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62233 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:11pm
Subject: RE: Re: State Land Permits
How many years of individual permits could you have bought for the cost
of 1 fine? 166.6 years of individual permits so long as the price never
goes up. It's not worth risking it. $2500 is one heck of a fine.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 3:08 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
Stu:
I could not agree more, I got mine the next day I found out that I
needed one, it was easier for me to pick it up, rather than doing it
by mail because I work close to the State Land Office. Before I ran
Bulldog Canyon I got that permit too, that my take on things. I just
thought that maybe we could exhort some kind of "peer pressure"
asking about them before we start a trail. Obviously people can lie
and say they have them when they don't, but imagine the embarrassment
if a group got pulled over and someone claiming they had one did
not?. I'd be kind of funny don't you think?
If doing things the right way is not incentive enough, then maybe
thinking that the money they spent on the fine could have been used
to buy that "last" mod to their rig might settle it for them. :)
Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Jose,
>
> IMO, anyone that wheels in Arizona needs to have a STL permit. It
is a
> no-brainer decision to get one. Call 602-542-4631 (Phoenix) or
> 520-628-5480 (Tucson) or 520-774-1425 (Flagstaff) and have an
> application sent to your house. Most folks (including me half of
the
> time) don't know if they are on or off STL when running a trail.
> However...we all know that many of our favorite trails are on or cut
> across STL. Not having one is silly, given the $20 cost for a
family
> permit. Mine expires in approximately two weeks and my renewal is
in
> the mail, as I type.
>
> TC!
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:20 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
>
> Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
> their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
> trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
> wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them,
forgot
> to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> > Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
> they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land
Use
> Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
> very strict in that area about the permits.
> > You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> > 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
> office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> > The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single. I think
> > that your hunting license is also good for access to
State
> Land.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62234 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:12pm
Subject: Re: Toys By Troy Roll Cage
There is a big difference between the way a CJ/YJ windshield is securred vs
a TJ. The CJ/YJ have a beefy bracket that comes down behind the windshield
and attaches to the dash with a big honking bolt. The TJ has a much smaller
bolt that attaches through the side of the windshielf hinge to the side of
the body. Much less sturdier and more chance for forward/aft movement as the
hole oblongates over time as the windshield moves. The CJ/YJ clamps better
the winshield in place to not allow forward/aft movement as much.
Which is better between the ORf and TBT? Who knows. They are pretty similar.
I have the ORF one and like the windshield support. Is it needed? Again, who
knows.
Chris
> From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Toys By Troy Roll Cage
>
> My windshield is not attached to my cage - it is only attached at the hinge.
> It does not flop around. In fact, it seems pretty solid. If you think about
> it, CJ's were all this way too.
>
> -Roger
>
> Scott Kruize wrote:
>
>> Having installed both of these cages (Troy and ORF) I will throw in my 2
>> cents. Both appear to be pretty equal in most aspects. But the one thing
>> I do not like about the one from Troy is that there is no bracket
>> bracing the windshield. The only thing keeping the windshiled from
>> flopping around is the bolt on each hinge. The top side is completely
>> free. The windshield wobbles around.
>>
>> Scott K
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 9:57 PM
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Toys By Troy Roll Cage
>>
>> I am interested in getting one of those cages, I looked on his
>> website but didn't see any pricing.. Does anyone know the price of
>> the cage?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Allan
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62235 From: jeepthang87yj <jeep_thang@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:18pm
Subject: OT: Puppies Going up For Sale
These puppies are not up for sale yet as they are still weening, but
will be going up soon (1st week of Sept). I am just wandering if
anybody in the club would like a first chance of getting one or two.
I don't know much about the puppies as they are my mothers, but they
are very cute. There are 6 Golden and 3 Black Labs for sale, all
puppies are Pure Bread and Papered, AKC Registered both Male and
Female on site, do not know how many of each.
The asking price is between $375.00 and $450.00 each Very Negotiable.
If you are Seriously interested send me an e-mail off list at
larry@d...
I do think that they will reserve puppies for those interested.
The puppies are located in Central Tucson Az.
Sincerely: JEEP THANG
62211 From: <tlafrance@j...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 0:58pm
Subject: Driveline service
From what I understand, Dick moved to Show Low to open a shop (Mtn View Driveline) up there and left the Phx shop for his wife to run. She has her brother and a few other relatives working there also. The help that KNOWS how to perform quality work has been cut to part time 3 days a week as a result.
There is a small shop in Mesa called "Gold Star" located on Center just north of Southern. He gives GREAT personalized service and will build ANYTHING from wild to mild.
Phone # 480-649-0705 ask for Ray and tell him you're from the "Jeep" club :-)
Tom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
62212 From: parajeeper02 <parajeeper02@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:11pm
Subject: Re: What was the larger oil filter # that fit Jeeps?
Nick -
I believe it was a Fram PH8A and a Mobil 1 M1-301.
- Eric
--- In az_vjc@y..., "nnotes" <nnote@a...> wrote:
> I have a 93yj 4Cyl. The Mobil 1 oil filter size for mine is the
> 204. I wanted to get the larger oil filter that someone here
fiqured
> out fit. What was the number for it?
> Nick
62213 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:15pm
Subject: RE: Re: What was the larger oil filter # that fit Jeeps?
Eric,
Right on that's the one.
Nick,
That is what fits in my Jeep.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: parajeeper02 [mailto:parajeeper02@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: What was the larger oil filter # that fit Jeeps?
Nick -
I believe it was a Fram PH8A and a Mobil 1 M1-301.
- Eric
--- In az_vjc@y..., "nnotes" <nnote@a...> wrote:
> I have a 93yj 4Cyl. The Mobil 1 oil filter size for mine is the
> 204. I wanted to get the larger oil filter that someone here
fiqured
> out fit. What was the number for it?
> Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62214 From: rabenius2001 <jrabenius@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:16pm
Subject: Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
Allan,
How often do you go fourwheeling?
What kind of fourwheeling do you do?
If all you do is slow rock crawling on the trails here in Phoenix,
you should be able to use the OR Fab sport kit.
A weld in cage is stronger than a bolt together one.
It also depends on what kind of tubing the cage is made out of.
You can use several different types of tube for building a cage. HREW
is hot rolled electronically welded, and has a yield strength of
40,000 PSI. It will either be 1018 or 1020 mild steel. DOM is drawn
over mandrel, is seamless, and has a yield strength of 70,000 PSI,
almost twice as strong (same O.D., same wall thickness). It will
either be 1020, or 1026 steel.
ARCA rules state that a cage must be nade from 1 1/2" O.D. DOM
tubing, minimum. Not that we are all going to compete.
Most of the aftermarket cages are made from mild steel (HREW) seam
tubing.
While this is always better than nothing, a custom cage built from
DOM seamless tubing that welds to the frame is the best.
The problem is that a custom DOM tubed cage that ties into the frame
would cost more than $1000, and would almost surely not use the
factory bar.
How much do you want to spend, and can you justify the extra expense
of the weld in DOM tubed cage?
To give you an idea of the difference in the material cost alone,
Capital Metals sells a 20 foot length of mild steel seam tubing (HREW)
for $1.10 a foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That's $22.00 for a 20
foot stick.
DOM mild steel seamless tube is twice as strong, but costs $2.90 a
foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That is $58.00 for a 20 foot stick.
If you like high speed dirt road running, the DOM cage is the only
way to go. It is stronger, and is made from stronger material.
Ask John at Hunter offroad what he uses to make the cage pieces from.
I think he generally uses mild steel (HREW)seam tubing, not DOM. This
is fine for most of the population. I'm sure if you asked him, he
would make the cage from DOM, but it will cost you almost 3 time as
much.
The harder you use your vehicle, the more you will need to have a
better stronger cage.
Either the bolt in OR Fab kit or Hunter's custom fabbed cage would
work well.
One last thought: The O.R. fab cage kit comes powdercoated in black.
The hunter custom fabbed cage can be powder coated, but you would
have to strip the stock roll bar first, and then powdercoat the whole
thing (assuming John welds the front cage part to the stock roll
bar). Big hastle.
62215 From: zj_lopez <off-road@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:20pm
Subject: Re: State Land Permits
Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them, forgot
to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land Use
Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
very strict in that area about the permits.
> You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single.
> I think that your hunting license is also good for access to State
Land.
62216 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:22pm
Subject: Re: Want to buy Old Jeep
YOUR IN LUCK!!! There is a girl trying to sell her CJ-8 for $2,500
OBO... I'll betcha you guys can work something out!! LOL ;) -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Houk" <david.houk@o...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I know of someone looking to buy an older jeep. He
wants a
> narrow axle, CJ-5, CJ-7 or older, just to bum around in, for
hunting,
> etc. Stock or mostly stock. Something from the 50's, 60's or 70's
would
> be okay. (1982 was the last year for the narrow axles.) He is
willing
> to pay up to $3500 maximum, depending on condition. He name is
Steve
> Miller and his number is 480-892-4861. Please contact him directly
if
> you know of any jeep like this for sale.
>
> Thanks, David
62217 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:40pm
Subject: RE: State Land Permits
>>>I think that your hunting license is also good for access to State Land.
Only true when you are in the middle of hunting season and actively hunting. If this rule gets abused enough, they will pull it and everyone will be buying permits, no exceptions.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
----- Original Message -----
From: LONNIE PAUGH
To: 'AZVJC'
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:41 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] State Land Permits
Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land Use Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were very strict in that area about the permits.
You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single.
I think that your hunting license is also good for access to State Land.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
62218 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
Wow. That's great information, John. Thanks for the education.
As for the powdercoating hassle, another option is to get some
paint made to match the factory cage and packaged in spray cans.
Then simply spray the new part of the cage to match the factory
part.
-Roger
rabenius2001 wrote:
>
> Allan,
>
> How often do you go fourwheeling?
>
> What kind of fourwheeling do you do?
>
> If all you do is slow rock crawling on the trails here in Phoenix,
> you should be able to use the OR Fab sport kit.
>
> A weld in cage is stronger than a bolt together one.
>
> It also depends on what kind of tubing the cage is made out of.
>
> You can use several different types of tube for building a cage. HREW
> is hot rolled electronically welded, and has a yield strength of
> 40,000 PSI. It will either be 1018 or 1020 mild steel. DOM is drawn
> over mandrel, is seamless, and has a yield strength of 70,000 PSI,
> almost twice as strong (same O.D., same wall thickness). It will
> either be 1020, or 1026 steel.
>
> ARCA rules state that a cage must be nade from 1 1/2" O.D. DOM
> tubing, minimum. Not that we are all going to compete.
>
> Most of the aftermarket cages are made from mild steel (HREW) seam
> tubing.
>
> While this is always better than nothing, a custom cage built from
> DOM seamless tubing that welds to the frame is the best.
>
> The problem is that a custom DOM tubed cage that ties into the frame
> would cost more than $1000, and would almost surely not use the
> factory bar.
>
> How much do you want to spend, and can you justify the extra expense
> of the weld in DOM tubed cage?
>
> To give you an idea of the difference in the material cost alone,
> Capital Metals sells a 20 foot length of mild steel seam tubing (HREW)
> for $1.10 a foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That's $22.00 for a 20
> foot stick.
>
> DOM mild steel seamless tube is twice as strong, but costs $2.90 a
> foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That is $58.00 for a 20 foot stick.
>
> If you like high speed dirt road running, the DOM cage is the only
> way to go. It is stronger, and is made from stronger material.
>
> Ask John at Hunter offroad what he uses to make the cage pieces from.
> I think he generally uses mild steel (HREW)seam tubing, not DOM. This
> is fine for most of the population. I'm sure if you asked him, he
> would make the cage from DOM, but it will cost you almost 3 time as
> much.
>
> The harder you use your vehicle, the more you will need to have a
> better stronger cage.
>
> Either the bolt in OR Fab kit or Hunter's custom fabbed cage would
> work well.
>
> One last thought: The O.R. fab cage kit comes powdercoated in black.
> The hunter custom fabbed cage can be powder coated, but you would
> have to strip the stock roll bar first, and then powdercoat the whole
> thing (assuming John welds the front cage part to the stock roll
> bar). Big hastle.
62219 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
Good info in here, except I'm pretty sure that ARCA does NOT require DOM-
HREW is fine currently.
At 08:16 PM 8/5/2002 +0000, rabenius2001 wrote:
>Allan,
>
>How often do you go fourwheeling?
>
>What kind of fourwheeling do you do?
>
>If all you do is slow rock crawling on the trails here in Phoenix,
>you should be able to use the OR Fab sport kit.
>
>A weld in cage is stronger than a bolt together one.
>
>It also depends on what kind of tubing the cage is made out of.
>
>You can use several different types of tube for building a cage. HREW
>is hot rolled electronically welded, and has a yield strength of
>40,000 PSI. It will either be 1018 or 1020 mild steel. DOM is drawn
>over mandrel, is seamless, and has a yield strength of 70,000 PSI,
>almost twice as strong (same O.D., same wall thickness). It will
>either be 1020, or 1026 steel.
>
>ARCA rules state that a cage must be nade from 1 1/2" O.D. DOM
>tubing, minimum. Not that we are all going to compete.
>
>Most of the aftermarket cages are made from mild steel (HREW) seam
>tubing.
>
>While this is always better than nothing, a custom cage built from
>DOM seamless tubing that welds to the frame is the best.
>
>The problem is that a custom DOM tubed cage that ties into the frame
>would cost more than $1000, and would almost surely not use the
>factory bar.
>
>How much do you want to spend, and can you justify the extra expense
>of the weld in DOM tubed cage?
>
>To give you an idea of the difference in the material cost alone,
>Capital Metals sells a 20 foot length of mild steel seam tubing (HREW)
>for $1.10 a foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That's $22.00 for a 20
>foot stick.
>
>DOM mild steel seamless tube is twice as strong, but costs $2.90 a
>foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That is $58.00 for a 20 foot stick.
>
>If you like high speed dirt road running, the DOM cage is the only
>way to go. It is stronger, and is made from stronger material.
>
>Ask John at Hunter offroad what he uses to make the cage pieces from.
>I think he generally uses mild steel (HREW)seam tubing, not DOM. This
>is fine for most of the population. I'm sure if you asked him, he
>would make the cage from DOM, but it will cost you almost 3 time as
>much.
>
>The harder you use your vehicle, the more you will need to have a
>better stronger cage.
>
>Either the bolt in OR Fab kit or Hunter's custom fabbed cage would
>work well.
>
>One last thought: The O.R. fab cage kit comes powdercoated in black.
>The hunter custom fabbed cage can be powder coated, but you would
>have to strip the stock roll bar first, and then powdercoat the whole
>thing (assuming John welds the front cage part to the stock roll
>bar). Big hastle.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62220 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:47pm
Subject: RE: Driveline service
Tom,
Thanks for the info. Assuming that is true, it does help explain why
things have gone down hill, quality wise. I obviously didn't end up
with one of those part time guys that knew how to do it. (with my luck,
I got the under age nephew that was helping during Easter break!)
TC!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: tlafrance@j... [mailto:tlafrance@j...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 12:59 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Driveline service
From what I understand, Dick moved to Show Low to open a shop (Mtn View
Driveline) up there and left the Phx shop for his wife to run. She has
her brother and a few other relatives working there also. The help that
KNOWS how to perform quality work has been cut to part time 3 days a
week as a result.
There is a small shop in Mesa called "Gold Star" located on Center just
north of Southern. He gives GREAT personalized service and will build
ANYTHING from wild to mild.
Phone # 480-649-0705 ask for Ray and tell him you're from the "Jeep"
club :-)
Tom
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62221 From: weasel_ugs <weaselugs@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Ideas on new rear end!
But how much stress wil be put on that rear end?Doesnt look like it
will go anywhere but out of garage to a trailer. Don
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Michael Lake" <xjcountry93@m...> wrote:
> The folks at NAXJA brought up the idea of an 8" Toyota and I did a
search and found this big truck http://www.truckworld.com/4x4-
OffRoad/Thumper-Toyota/4x4-Toyota.html
>
> Michael!
> Green Cherokee'
> 93 Country 2 door
>
> If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself,
is it considered a hostage situation?Get more from the Web. FREE MSN
Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
62222 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:54pm
Subject: Re: Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
Also, John has used CREW in the past. I sent a long e-mail here (az_vjc),
explaining all the differences, etc., a while ago (maybe 2 months back). I
was specifically into response to the use of CREW and why it's not as
"strong" as the HREW. Also there was some discussion regarding the wall
thinkness uniformity between the three, and how HREW can have better wall
thickness uniformity than DOM.
For the wheeling that we do, DOM is probably way overkill. Nothing wrong
with it, if you have the $$$$, but certainly not needed.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daver" <daver@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: ORFab Cage vs. Toys by Troy cage
> Good info in here, except I'm pretty sure that ARCA does NOT require DOM-
> HREW is fine currently.
>
> At 08:16 PM 8/5/2002 +0000, rabenius2001 wrote:
> >Allan,
> >
> >How often do you go fourwheeling?
> >
> >What kind of fourwheeling do you do?
> >
> >If all you do is slow rock crawling on the trails here in Phoenix,
> >you should be able to use the OR Fab sport kit.
> >
> >A weld in cage is stronger than a bolt together one.
> >
> >It also depends on what kind of tubing the cage is made out of.
> >
> >You can use several different types of tube for building a cage. HREW
> >is hot rolled electronically welded, and has a yield strength of
> >40,000 PSI. It will either be 1018 or 1020 mild steel. DOM is drawn
> >over mandrel, is seamless, and has a yield strength of 70,000 PSI,
> >almost twice as strong (same O.D., same wall thickness). It will
> >either be 1020, or 1026 steel.
> >
> >ARCA rules state that a cage must be nade from 1 1/2" O.D. DOM
> >tubing, minimum. Not that we are all going to compete.
> >
> >Most of the aftermarket cages are made from mild steel (HREW) seam
> >tubing.
> >
> >While this is always better than nothing, a custom cage built from
> >DOM seamless tubing that welds to the frame is the best.
> >
> >The problem is that a custom DOM tubed cage that ties into the frame
> >would cost more than $1000, and would almost surely not use the
> >factory bar.
> >
> >How much do you want to spend, and can you justify the extra expense
> >of the weld in DOM tubed cage?
> >
> >To give you an idea of the difference in the material cost alone,
> >Capital Metals sells a 20 foot length of mild steel seam tubing (HREW)
> >for $1.10 a foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That's $22.00 for a 20
> >foot stick.
> >
> >DOM mild steel seamless tube is twice as strong, but costs $2.90 a
> >foot for 1 3/4" O.D. .120" wall. That is $58.00 for a 20 foot stick.
> >
> >If you like high speed dirt road running, the DOM cage is the only
> >way to go. It is stronger, and is made from stronger material.
> >
> >Ask John at Hunter offroad what he uses to make the cage pieces from.
> >I think he generally uses mild steel (HREW)seam tubing, not DOM. This
> >is fine for most of the population. I'm sure if you asked him, he
> >would make the cage from DOM, but it will cost you almost 3 time as
> >much.
> >
> >The harder you use your vehicle, the more you will need to have a
> >better stronger cage.
> >
> >Either the bolt in OR Fab kit or Hunter's custom fabbed cage would
> >work well.
> >
> >One last thought: The O.R. fab cage kit comes powdercoated in black.
> >The hunter custom fabbed cage can be powder coated, but you would
> >have to strip the stock roll bar first, and then powdercoat the whole
> >thing (assuming John welds the front cage part to the stock roll
> >bar). Big hastle.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62223 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:53pm
Subject: RE: Re: State Land Permits
Jose,
IMO, anyone that wheels in Arizona needs to have a STL permit. It is a
no-brainer decision to get one. Call 602-542-4631 (Phoenix) or
520-628-5480 (Tucson) or 520-774-1425 (Flagstaff) and have an
application sent to your house. Most folks (including me half of the
time) don't know if they are on or off STL when running a trail.
However...we all know that many of our favorite trails are on or cut
across STL. Not having one is silly, given the $20 cost for a family
permit. Mine expires in approximately two weeks and my renewal is in
the mail, as I type.
TC!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:20 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them, forgot
to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land Use
Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
very strict in that area about the permits.
> You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single.
> I think that your hunting license is also good for access to State
Land.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62224 From: my2001tj <my2001tj@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 1:57pm
Subject: Drive shaft
Im getting a SYE this week and need a drive shaft any good shops? And
Stu or anyone how long dose the install on a sye take? Have one other
guy to help me.
Thank you Dean
62225 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:02pm
Subject: RE: Drive shaft
I would NOT recommend Dicks Driveshaft (whose part time help that knows
how to make drive shafts may or may not be the person that does yours!)
LOL
I don't know who long the SYE should take as I have not done one myself
(I know, surprising isn't it? LOL) My used t-case from JoeW came with
a SYE on it. :)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: my2001tj [mailto:my2001tj@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:57 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Drive shaft
Im getting a SYE this week and need a drive shaft any good shops? And
Stu or anyone how long dose the install on a sye take? Have one other
guy to help me.
Thank you Dean
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62226 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:05pm
Subject: [FS] Large hole Dana -18 t-case
Price: $200
Contact: Matt Bolton, 602-502-4865
Dana / Spicer model 18 transfercase.
Large hole index (4”) case
Rebuilt and never used
$200
Matt Bolton
602-502-4865
Matt Bolton
62227 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:15pm
Subject: Re: Drive shaft
Plan on at least 4 hours for your first time. The time is cut in half
with experience. Here is my write on Stu's page ;) http://www.stu-
offroad.com/sye/sye-1.htm
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "my2001tj" <my2001tj@y...> wrote:
> Im getting a SYE this week and need a drive shaft any good shops?
And
> Stu or anyone how long dose the install on a sye take? Have one
other
> guy to help me.
>
>
> Thank you Dean
62228 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:33pm
Subject: Alignmeng Guy Needed (Can't remember name)
Who is our alignment guy that is on our list. Please call me on my cell
phone 602-373-2911. Needing some help. Thanks.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
62229 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 2:53pm
Subject: RE: Toys By Troy Roll Cage
Whether or not its going to cause a problem is unknown yet. In my
opinion though it would seem better to have a single bolt on each corner
of the windshield.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Daver [mailto:daver@c...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 10:12 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Toys By Troy Roll Cage
My YJ has had a cage without a windshield support for 3-4 years now, I
haven't had any trouble with it wobbling or flopping up to my max speed
of
about 80-85 MPH. My CJ5's full cage didn't have any windshield support
either, and it was rock solid up to its max speed of about 60-65MPH.
FWIW.
At 09:52 AM 8/5/2002 -0700, Roger Tomas wrote:
>My windshield is not attached to my cage - it is only attached at the
>hinge. It does not flop around. In fact, it seems pretty solid. If
>you think about it, CJ's were all this way too.
>
>-Roger
>
>Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> > Having installed both of these cages (Troy and ORF) I will throw in
> > my 2 cents. Both appear to be pretty equal in most aspects. But the
> > one thing I do not like about the one from Troy is that there is no
> > bracket bracing the windshield. The only thing keeping the
> > windshiled from flopping around is the bolt on each hinge. The top
> > side is completely free. The windshield wobbles around.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62230 From: JML2112 DESERTRAT <JML2112@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Driveline service
I have used Gold Star in Mesa and was very satisfied with Ray's work>
Jeff Lewis
74 CJ5 east Mesa
>From: tlafrance@juno.com
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Driveline service
>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:58:42 GMT
>
>From what I understand, Dick moved to Show Low to open a shop (Mtn View Driveline) up there and left the Phx shop for his wife to run. She has her brother and a few other relatives working there also. The help that KNOWS how to perform quality work has been cut to part time 3 days a week as a result.
>
>There is a small shop in Mesa called "Gold Star" located on Center just north of Southern. He gives GREAT personalized service and will build ANYTHING from wild to mild.
>Phone # 480-649-0705 ask for Ray and tell him you're from the "Jeep" club :-)
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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62231 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:03pm
Subject: RE: Re: State Land Permits
This topic comes up a lot on this list. I don't feel it's the
responsibility of the trip leader to check for permits. I know that my
closest friends and I all carry valid permits. I will recommend that any
newbies I meet get a STL permit. But for most people I leave it up to
them. It's not my job to enforce these rules.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:54 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
Jose,
IMO, anyone that wheels in Arizona needs to have a STL permit. It is a
no-brainer decision to get one. Call 602-542-4631 (Phoenix) or
520-628-5480 (Tucson) or 520-774-1425 (Flagstaff) and have an
application sent to your house. Most folks (including me half of the
time) don't know if they are on or off STL when running a trail.
However...we all know that many of our favorite trails are on or cut
across STL. Not having one is silly, given the $20 cost for a family
permit. Mine expires in approximately two weeks and my renewal is in
the mail, as I type.
TC!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:20 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them, forgot
to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land Use
Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
very strict in that area about the permits.
> You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single. I think
> that your hunting license is also good for access to State
Land.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62232 From: zj_lopez <off-road@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:07pm
Subject: Re: State Land Permits
Stu:
I could not agree more, I got mine the next day I found out that I
needed one, it was easier for me to pick it up, rather than doing it
by mail because I work close to the State Land Office. Before I ran
Bulldog Canyon I got that permit too, that my take on things. I just
thought that maybe we could exhort some kind of "peer pressure"
asking about them before we start a trail. Obviously people can lie
and say they have them when they don't, but imagine the embarrassment
if a group got pulled over and someone claiming they had one did
not?. I'd be kind of funny don't you think?
If doing things the right way is not incentive enough, then maybe
thinking that the money they spent on the fine could have been used
to buy that "last" mod to their rig might settle it for them. :)
Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Jose,
>
> IMO, anyone that wheels in Arizona needs to have a STL permit. It
is a
> no-brainer decision to get one. Call 602-542-4631 (Phoenix) or
> 520-628-5480 (Tucson) or 520-774-1425 (Flagstaff) and have an
> application sent to your house. Most folks (including me half of
the
> time) don't know if they are on or off STL when running a trail.
> However...we all know that many of our favorite trails are on or cut
> across STL. Not having one is silly, given the $20 cost for a
family
> permit. Mine expires in approximately two weeks and my renewal is
in
> the mail, as I type.
>
> TC!
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:20 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
>
> Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
> their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
> trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
> wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them,
forgot
> to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> > Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
> they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land
Use
> Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
> very strict in that area about the permits.
> > You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> > 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
> office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> > The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single.
> > I think that your hunting license is also good for access to
State
> Land.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62233 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:11pm
Subject: RE: Re: State Land Permits
How many years of individual permits could you have bought for the cost
of 1 fine? 166.6 years of individual permits so long as the price never
goes up. It's not worth risking it. $2500 is one heck of a fine.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 3:08 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
Stu:
I could not agree more, I got mine the next day I found out that I
needed one, it was easier for me to pick it up, rather than doing it
by mail because I work close to the State Land Office. Before I ran
Bulldog Canyon I got that permit too, that my take on things. I just
thought that maybe we could exhort some kind of "peer pressure"
asking about them before we start a trail. Obviously people can lie
and say they have them when they don't, but imagine the embarrassment
if a group got pulled over and someone claiming they had one did
not?. I'd be kind of funny don't you think?
If doing things the right way is not incentive enough, then maybe
thinking that the money they spent on the fine could have been used
to buy that "last" mod to their rig might settle it for them. :)
Jose
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Jose,
>
> IMO, anyone that wheels in Arizona needs to have a STL permit. It
is a
> no-brainer decision to get one. Call 602-542-4631 (Phoenix) or
> 520-628-5480 (Tucson) or 520-774-1425 (Flagstaff) and have an
> application sent to your house. Most folks (including me half of
the
> time) don't know if they are on or off STL when running a trail.
> However...we all know that many of our favorite trails are on or cut
> across STL. Not having one is silly, given the $20 cost for a
family
> permit. Mine expires in approximately two weeks and my renewal is
in
> the mail, as I type.
>
> TC!
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: zj_lopez [mailto:off-road@c...]
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:20 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: State Land Permits
>
> Has it ever been suggested that trip leaders ask if everyone has
> their permits in order at the meeting point?, or a day before the
> trip even. I know we are supposed to be a responsible group of
> wheelers but sometimes people just don't know they need them,
forgot
> to check the expiration date, etc. - Jose
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...> wrote:
> > Steve Sample mentioned that they got stopped by the sheriff when
> they were up at Florence Junction area for not having State Land
Use
> Permits. When I picked mine up here in Tucson they said they were
> very strict in that area about the permits.
> > You can get one at the State Land Office here in Tucson at:
> > 233 N Main Ave (just north of down town) Phone #628-5480. The
> office is in one of the houses on the west side of Main.
> > The cost is $20 for a family and a little less for a single. I think
> > that your hunting license is also good for access to
State
> Land.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
62234 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:12pm
Subject: Re: Toys By Troy Roll Cage
There is a big difference between the way a CJ/YJ windshield is securred vs
a TJ. The CJ/YJ have a beefy bracket that comes down behind the windshield
and attaches to the dash with a big honking bolt. The TJ has a much smaller
bolt that attaches through the side of the windshielf hinge to the side of
the body. Much less sturdier and more chance for forward/aft movement as the
hole oblongates over time as the windshield moves. The CJ/YJ clamps better
the winshield in place to not allow forward/aft movement as much.
Which is better between the ORf and TBT? Who knows. They are pretty similar.
I have the ORF one and like the windshield support. Is it needed? Again, who
knows.
Chris
> From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Toys By Troy Roll Cage
>
> My windshield is not attached to my cage - it is only attached at the hinge.
> It does not flop around. In fact, it seems pretty solid. If you think about
> it, CJ's were all this way too.
>
> -Roger
>
> Scott Kruize wrote:
>
>> Having installed both of these cages (Troy and ORF) I will throw in my 2
>> cents. Both appear to be pretty equal in most aspects. But the one thing
>> I do not like about the one from Troy is that there is no bracket
>> bracing the windshield. The only thing keeping the windshiled from
>> flopping around is the bolt on each hinge. The top side is completely
>> free. The windshield wobbles around.
>>
>> Scott K
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: allanalxndr [mailto:ajalex15@c...]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 9:57 PM
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Toys By Troy Roll Cage
>>
>> I am interested in getting one of those cages, I looked on his
>> website but didn't see any pricing.. Does anyone know the price of
>> the cage?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Allan
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
62235 From: jeepthang87yj <jeep_thang@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 3:18pm
Subject: OT: Puppies Going up For Sale
These puppies are not up for sale yet as they are still weening, but
will be going up soon (1st week of Sept). I am just wandering if
anybody in the club would like a first chance of getting one or two.
I don't know much about the puppies as they are my mothers, but they
are very cute. There are 6 Golden and 3 Black Labs for sale, all
puppies are Pure Bread and Papered, AKC Registered both Male and
Female on site, do not know how many of each.
The asking price is between $375.00 and $450.00 each Very Negotiable.
If you are Seriously interested send me an e-mail off list at
larry@d...
I do think that they will reserve puppies for those interested.
The puppies are located in Central Tucson Az.
Sincerely: JEEP THANG