Broken Arrow Trail Questions: Are these lines legal?

[Sean K.]

Please don't take this as a dig on anyone on the site at all.

I've never done the Broken Arrow trail and would like to on one of the weekends in early December.

I have a street legal, registered and insured buggy.....

Since so many 4wheelers have a bad impression of buggies in general, I'm trying to avoid doing anything that will cause any undue negative attention while on this heavily traveled trail.

My question is.....how do I know if an obstacle or route (line...whatever) is legal on the trail?

From some pics on the site (again, not nit-picking anyone....just don't want to get into trouble):

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13917&stc=1&d=1190587612

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13909&stc=1&d=1190587223

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/Jeepinyahoo/IMGP0679.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/Jeepinyahoo/IMGP0681.jpg

Are all these areas legal to be on? There don't look like alot of tracks, so I'm guessing it's hard to tell unless you're with someone who knows the area well.

Mainly, I'm just trying to avoid any problems but still have a little bit of fun. If I had a less built rig, I'd take it instead....but I really don't want to take my fullsize tow rig in there.

Also, while my buggy is street legal, I really don't want to push the issue and would like to be able to drop my trailer near the trail head. My understanding is that parking is extremely limited there. Is it best to get there really early (how early?) in order to get a spot?

Thanks,
Sean

[rubicontrail]

A lot of the areas of Broken Arrow that you have pictured are sandstone and are open to vehicle traffic.

Do NOT run over any vegetation or go any place where you will cause excessive wheel spin.

Also, do not leave the vehicle idling when you aren't in it. If you do, you may get a friendly little ticket from the rangers.

Follow the rules of Tread Lightly and you should be good. Anywhere you see the Pink Jeeps go, you can go.

[xjstocker]

you can park at farabees its a short drive to the trail head but it is thru the center of town. not alot of trailer parking anywhere near the trailhead. the parking lot is to small for your rig and trailer. we had Nena with us on that run and she knows the area very well. she didnt say anything bout dont go there. and the pink jeep gestapo didnt say anything to us and beleive me if it wasnt allowed they would have. just remember to keep the group size small i.e. under 6 rigs. not that busy this time of year but still considerate. have fun this trail is fun

[Sedona Jeep School]

There are two main "playgrounds" in open slickrock areas on that trail where there are multiple choices. As mentioned, don't drive anywhere where there is virgin soil or vegetation. In these play areas, even the tracks from the 5 Pink Jeeps per hour are not as distinct. If you are unsure, please stop by our shop, and we will be happy to mark the playground areas on a map for you.

[Sean K.]

Thanks. I may just take you up on that! :)

Sean

Thanks for the replies guys.

[Sedona Jeep School]

I should add for the benefit of everyone:

The lines shown in the photos are all part of established play areas. When those photos were taken was right after a rain, so even the worn-down easy lines were obscured and harder to see. If you look closely, you can see established tracks in the photos.

Also, we mentioned "solid rock" areas are okay--this does not mean ANY area that is all rock. It also does not mean any area WITH rocks--we avoid straying onto loose or broken rocks, even if there is no soil or plant life in it.

Last, but not least, Sean--THANK YOU FOR ASKING! We must police ourselves, and I hope speak for everyone here when I say that I will NEVER be offended by someone asking about a line or trail pics. At the very least, it opens it up for discussion, so others may better understand. Tread Lightly!

On a side note, I am not sure about the technicality of using Ben as traction--can anyone help out here? :D

[amber.hodge]

The line on my husband's back is illegal.......Only Rio can drive on my husband w/o prior permitting and special permissions from Wife! :D

No, those lines were legal - we were up there with Nena and she would have had NO PROBLEM telling us if we were in a "no-go" area! :D

You haven't seen those lines before because the pink jeeps are to little to try them is all.

[ROKBITR]

I would just like to add....I LOVE SEDONA! :offtopic:....Thank you, that is all :)

[OlneyJeeps]

just 2 additional notes/observations

I'm sure you had some with you, but peat sorb and pig pads

second, if you have questionable pics, pm to someone (ie joe, sandy etc) first... forum is regularly scanned by tree huggers for stuff to burn us on (while ago.. but imfamous Mookie rescue ended up all over net)

[Sean K.]

I should add for the benefit of everyone:

The lines shown in the photos are all part of established play areas. When those photos were taken was right after a rain, so even the worn-down easy lines were obscured and harder to see. If you look closely, you can see established tracks in the photos.

Also, we mentioned "solid rock" areas are okay--this does not mean ANY area that is all rock. It also does not mean any area WITH rocks--we avoid straying onto loose or broken rocks, even if there is no soil or plant life in it.

Last, but not least, Sean--THANK YOU FOR ASKING! We must police ourselves, and I hope speak for everyone here when I say that I will NEVER be offended by someone asking about a line or trail pics. At the very least, it opens it up for discussion, so others may better understand. Tread Lightly!

On a side note, I am not sure about the technicality of using Ben as traction--can anyone help out here? :D

No thanks necessary....I just didn't want to be "that guy" that went off trail in a buggy. The buggy guys have a bad enough rep....so bad that some of the older crowd wants us banned from BLM land and the sport of extreme rockcrawling banned altogether.

Sean

[Sean K.]

Oh, and is there absolutely NO PARKING whatsoever near the trail head for my trailer? Or is it simply a matter of getting there early enough? If the latter, what time is early enough?

Thanks,
Sean

[CaptainMorgan]

it would be tight for a truck and trailer.

[Skii4x4]

I would say no parking for trailer there. Extremely small parking lot.

[Rioshilo]

The line on my husband's back is illegal.......Only Rio can drive on my husband w/o prior permitting and special permissions from Wife! :D

No, those lines were legal - we were up there with Nena and she would have had NO PROBLEM telling us if we were in a "no-go" area! :D

You haven't seen those lines before because the pink jeeps are to little to try them is all.


I didn't know I was on top of him... he kind of snuck up behind me and then slipped underneath me while I was posing for the camera...

Wait a minute... I don't really like where this is going. :dizzy2:

[Sean K.]

Is there anywhere south of Morgan road that I could park the trailer and tow rig?

My buggy is street legal (screw up on MVDs part) but right now it has no turn signals or winshield or horn....I really don't want to risk driving through town.

Sean

[xjstocker]

try parking at the hotel/resort right near there

[Sean K.]

I'm betting I'd get towed out of there....or at least ticketed. Maybe I should google earth it and look for a dirt road or something.

Sean

[Sean K.]

I thought someone here posted a google pic type link to the BA trail. I thought it was in the trail section. Can't seem to find it though.....anyone know what I'm referring to?

Sean

[YGOHOME]

search for these coordinates using google maps...
34.846208, -111.758224

will take you straight to the trail head

[SEDONA RICK]

Is there anywhere south of Morgan road that I could park the trailer and tow rig? Sean

@ MORGAN RD. & HWY 179. THEY ARE WORKING ON WIDENING 179. IF YOU MADE IT LOOL LIKE A CONSTRUCTION TRAILER YOU COULD PROLLY LEAVE IT THERE FOR A FEW HRS. I'LL CK IT OUT LATER TODAY. EVEN POST PICS.
BUT ONLY IF YOU LET ME KNOW WHEN & I'LL RUN BA WITH YA. WOULD LIKE TO CK OUT YOUR BUGGY.

[Sedona Jeep School]

The only thing within 2 miles of the trailhead is the Radisson Poco Diablo, which is just 200 yards south of Morgan Road and 179. Park at your own risk, or tip the bellman generously--Ask for Steve, Gene, or William. There is also Jan at the front desk who is neighbors with Sheri, our office manager. Small town.

If that doesn't work, I can't think of anywhere else closer than us that is trailer friendly, except maybe Bashas'. Whenever there are utility companies or car haulers in town, they make arrangements to park with us because there are no options to speak of.

[SEDONA RICK]

Well After A 52 Hr Week I Took Off Early Today. Took The Short Cut From Cottonwood Up And Over House Mt Thru The Village Of Oak Creek Up To Morgan Rd. It's Like Give Me 40 Acers And I'll Park A Trailer Some Where. Not A No Parking Sign In Sight. Might Need A Red Rock Pass.

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[Sean K.]

Thank you both SO much. That dirt lot area in your pics, Rick looks perfect. I would definitely welcome the company if you were willing to join me. I've never really been up there in my own rig to wheel so I don't know much about it and would greatly appreciate any help.

If for some reason the dirt lot won't work, then the hotel Nena mentioned is another option. I don't mind paying $20 or so to park there for a few hours.

Can I pick up a Red Rock Pass in Sedona or possibly online or in Phx somewhere before heading up? Not sure how that all works.

Ben, thanks for the co-ordinates.

Thanks again guys.

Sean

PS. I'm thinking of coming up around 9-10 am on Saturday the 8th of December.

[Sean K.]

I have a friend from work that is very new to offroading. Just bought his first 4x4 truck....it's a 2007 Ford Ranger 4x4 extra cab. It is BONE stock. He's interested in going but isn't sure if he can make BA without any damage. Having never run the trail, I can't tell him for sure....I'd think if he was careful, he'd be okay....but his truck is fairly low to the ground. Does anyone know for sure if he could make it?

Thanks,
Sean

[xjstocker]

ran it in the explorer bone stock w/ 31" tires didnt even scrape once. and dont let him talk to the pink jeep drivers they'll tell him he cant do the stairs. he can no sweat.

[Sean K.]

Thanks Steve. 'preciate the reply. :)

Sean

[Sedona Jeep School]

The angle of departure is much shallower on any pickup than on any SUV, because of the extra feet of bed sticking out. Angle of departure is important on BA. Rangers, especially, are not that tall. He will drag butt.

[xjstocker]

the depature angle is different. but his ranger surely sits hecka higher than my street fighter expo does. he might touch his trailer hitch if equiped but if doesnt do my lines he should do fine IMO:)

[Sean K.]

The angle of departure is much shallower on any pickup than on any SUV, because of the extra feet of bed sticking out. Angle of departure is important on BA. Rangers, especially, are not that tall. He will drag butt.

Ya, I'd considered that....but I'm sorta with Steve....the Ranger looks like it sits a lot higher than the Explorer. You have more experience with the trail than either of us though, so I'll defer to your judgement.

Thanks for the heads up.

Sean

[Heinz57]

Sean, not to derail the topic but you mentioned a couple times about buggies and bad raps. Also mentioned banning buggies from BLM and what not. Are these reliable sources? Reason I say this because i imagine they would have to ban all motorized (legal) rigs including, jeeps, side by sides, quads and bikes. Just curious cuz I have not heard these rumblings.
Back on track..Sedona is awsome and the hikes off these trails are equally as scenic if not more than the trail you drive on. Check with Nena and she can offer you some scenic advice once on the trail.

[CaptainMorgan]

His ranger will do fine...I know a guy who took his bone stock '05 through there and had only a little trouble folowing me, but it was all driver error there is a picture of him behind me on the staircase in the "Magazine Pics" thread...ALSO he was from New York and still h ad the plates to prove it...had never ben on a rock in his life ad he did fine. I smashed my exhaust that day.

[Sean K.]

Sean, not to derail the topic but you mentioned a couple times about buggies and bad raps. Also mentioned banning buggies from BLM and what not. Are these reliable sources? Reason I say this because i imagine they would have to ban all motorized (legal) rigs including, jeeps, side by sides, quads and bikes. Just curious cuz I have not heard these rumblings.


Barry,

It's not from BLM (yet)....it's from "fellow" wheelers. If you are at all familiar with the gun groups, I'd liken these guys to the "fuds" of the gun groups. Ya know, completely against anything but their specific gun type or use (usually gun owners that like deer hunting are against "assault weapon" style rifles or handguns for example). It's just another form of unproductive, divide and conquer.

There are many, many wheelers out there running non-buggies that are now preaching this mantra of buggies are the problem. As I interact with more recreational 4wheelers that don't run buggies, I see this phenomenon more and more. The perception problem seems to be growing exponentially and these same "fellow wheelers" are bragging about how they are bending the ears of NFS and BLM officials in such as way as to distance themselves from the "problem buggy/extreme 4wheeling guys".

Bill Burke of 4wheeling America(I'm sure you've heard of him) is one such buffoon....ranting endlessly about how Moab is being destroyed by buggies making harder lines on obstacles and the like when in reality.....it's the underequipped making bypasses to obstacles like on Jawbreaker resulting in closure. Nevermind the fact that many of Moab's obstacles like "rockpile" on Pritchett are neither signed as to the original, legal route nor are they run by anything but the super built up rigs. When I first did Pritchett in 99, there was the Rockpile ledge and one bypass....now there are at least 3 bypasses....All to make getting up the trail easier than the original obstacle itself. This is just one example.

I do wonder how long it will be before these seperatists cause a rift in the 4wd community and the BLM takes notice and advantage of the situation...though I do see your point about having to lock out all mechanized/motorized travel in order to accomplish the goal. Unfortunately, that's the green side's goal....and our own ranks don't seem to recognize that "We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately." -Benjamin Franklin

Sean

[Sean K.]

His ranger will do fine...I know a guy who took his bone stock '05 through there and had only a little trouble folowing me, but it was all driver error there is a picture of him behind me on the staircase in the "Magazine Pics" thread...ALSO he was from New York and still h ad the plates to prove it...had never ben on a rock in his life ad he did fine. I smashed my exhaust that day.

Hmmm....now I don't know what to tell him. Did your friend have a hitch? Mine doesn't.....I don't want ANY damage to his rig whatsoever. Guess he should probably stay home JIC.

Sean

[Heinz57]

Well put Sean. Yep, we have to stick together and I can see how this perception is percieved, I am sure it started to happened when jeeps started running big tires with lockers front and rear as well.

More importantly have a great time in Sedona. Let me know when you go, I have a good friend in Prescott who would let me run his TJ and would like to hit Sedona, have not been up there for years!

[xjstocker]

i have no issues with buggys it just shows me two things. one, thats where i want to be and what works and what doesnt so when my little truck grows up, ive learned from those before me.

[Sean K.]

Well put Sean. Yep, we have to stick together and I can see how this perception is percieved, it I am sure happened when jeeps started running big tires with lockers front and rear as well.

More importantly have a great time in Sedona. Let me know when you go, I have a good friend in Prescott who would let me run his TJ and would like to hit Sedona, have not been up there for years!


Right now, the plan is December 8th (Saturday) between 9-10 am.

Sean

Oh, and Steve....just so everyone (including you) knows: I wasn't referring to anyone here on this site.....but on other sites I've been to as well as out on the trails.

[Sean K.]

As usual, the plan's changed. :)

My dad is coming into town unexpectedly on the 8th so I have to cancel that day. I'm off the 7th and my wife is now taking the day off so she can go too. I totally understand if Sedona Rick can no longer lead....just wanted to post up so anyone thinking of going wouldn't be waiting for us on the 8th.

Anyone who'd like to go the 7th (Friday) instead is more than welcome to do so. We're planning a 11 am start time and will firm that time up if anyone posts up that they'd like to go.

***Edit****I decided to make a later start time (11 am) after my brilliant wife pointed out that Friday morning traffic out of the Valley will be bad until around 9 am.

As it stands right now, I'm not sure of the day either....just got off the phone with my Dad. He's now not sure if he's even going to come out the 8th....so we may go up to BA on Saturday instead (which would be my preference). As soon as I know something concrete, I'll post here and probably start a new thread in case anyone wants to join us. Sorry for all the changes of plan. *****

Thanks,
Sean

[Sean K.]

Okay....so it looks like Friday is the day we're going up. We are planning to hit the trail around 11 am. If anyone's interested, please post up here. :)

Sean