blooddrive
01-05-2004, 08:01 PM
57177-57201
57177 From: RICK BEER <rickbeer105@y...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:18pm
Subject: Re: Rick Beers
4TH AVE & BELL RD 602-942-9603
george Andrews wrote:
It's almost time for new tires on my rig. I've heard lots of good things about Rick...but never kept his location nor number. Can somebody provide me with Rick's phone?
George Andrews
'83 Cherokee WT, 454TBI, TH400, QT, d44s, 35x12.50s, ARBs
'73 Wagoneer, 360, TH400, QT, D30/44, 32x11.50s,
'00 TJ
Avondale Arizona
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
57178 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:34pm
Subject: Re: [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
LOL, I just checked the link I refered to in my letter, it is not
linked to their homepage now either. I can't take any credit because,
this was the same page that annouced one of the "kids" from the Back
Street Boys was on their side, Barry Young & Rush ripped them for
having this as a press release and nothing about our fires.
Good job everyone, keep up the work/pressure.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Fred,
>
> Perhaps the millions and millions that were allocated were diverted
to
> the courtrooms. According to Sentator Kyl, up to 40% of the USFS
budget
> has been spent in defending lawsuits from the anti-recreationists.
>
>
>
> It is interesting in that the URL that I included in my letter to
the
> Sierra Club this morning seems to be no longer linked on their
site. It
> would appear that they removed the link to that page (although the
page
> itself can still be directly accessed with the URL). If it is still
> linked, then they have reshuffled their web pages around so it is
not
> nearly so easy to stumble across. By the way, that was the page
that
> said "forest fires do not pose a major threat to home and
communities".
>
>
>
>
> What do you know..I honestly believe I made a difference!
>
>
>
> Stu Olson
>
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:04 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
>
>
>
> Are we suggesting that some greenies aren't in favor of controlled
> burns. They all seem to be, and they are in favor of letting remote
> fires burn, and most in forest thinning. Note, though, that forest
> thinning is not logging..
>
> I just taped a local news report with some "greenies" asking what's
> happened to the millions and millions of dollars that have been
> allocated to the FS for just those purposes. That is controlled
burns
> and manual thinning around occupied areas of the forest.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: CoyotEddie <mailto:coyoteddie@e...>
>
> To: az_vjc@y... ; Chatfield, <mailto:Mike@A...>
> Mike
>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:27 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
>
>
>
> I just voted its up to 751 votes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Chatfield, Mike <mailto:Mike@A...>
>
> To: 'az_vjc@y...'
>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:42 PM
>
> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
>
>
>
> Right now there is a poll on http://www.azcentral.com:
>
>
>
> "Do you favor controlled burns to prevent wildfires?"
>
>
>
> It is in the middle of the page. Only 500 or so have voted so far,
the
> results are overwhelmingly in favor of controlled burns and forest
> thinning, lets keep it that way and add another 500 to 1000 votes.
>
>
>
> - Mike
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
57179 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:48pm
Subject: RE: interesting post on slashdot.org
At 07:41 PM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Tony...for what it is worth, the computer codes, at least for the TJs,
>are printed in the service manual.
>
>I do agree that diagnostic codes should be made available to anyone that
>wishes to use them.
Even more than that, why weren't car computers provided with standard
RS-232 interfaces and published protocol specs in the first place?
Also, have you ever seen a Chrysler DRB III? With an RS-232 interface
and the protocol specs, it would be easy to write software for a laptop
that would emulate everything a DRB (Diagnostic Readout Box) does,
which goes way beyond just diagnostic codes. I've seen a Chrysler tech
decelerate and accelerate my engine with the DRB, and perform some
other pretty sophisticated analyses. Chrysler doesn't sell the DRB III
to customers though.
Another reason why I hate Chrysler.
Tony
>
>Stu
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:42 PM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] interesting post on slashdot.org
>
>
>Interesting post on slashdot. Here's part of the post text:
>
>SEWilco writes: "A Minneapolis Star Tribune story points out that small
>repair
>shops say they lose money because they don't have access to car computer
>codes.
>These 'codes' are the diagnostic messages used by onboard computers to
>report
>problems and perform tests. Older designs only required a jumper wire
>to make
>a test light flash code patterns, certain dashboard actions to display
>codes,
>or a cheap display terminal from a parts store. Now the interfaces and
>code
>meanings are more complex and undocumented, so only auto dealer repair
>shops
>can easily find causes of some problems. U.S. Senate S.2617 and House
>H. R.
>2735 would force auto manufacturers to share the codes. Sen. Wellstone
>says
>that manufacturers are acting like a cartel, blocking independent shops
>and
>car owners. But GM is being helpful."
>
>Here's the url:
>
>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/25/0156226&mode=thread&tid=126
>
>I certainly hope this/these bills pass because the auto manufacturers
>are
>also shutting out the backyard mechanic or the jeep owner who is stuck
>in the middle of nowhere because the computer is refusing to cooperate
>and start the engine.
>
>Tony
>
>
>--
>even the safest course is fraught with peril
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
57180 From: Judith Raya <jraya@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:32pm
Subject: Greens Screaming Foul
Good day from the PCCFMU,
> The Center for Biological Diversity is wildly flailing about blaming
> everyone including the state of Arizona for the fires in the White
> Mountains. These people are so fanatical in their "love" of mother
earth
> that they will see her burn rather than admit to their mistakes and
> allow responsible land and forest management to take place. It is my
> belief that most of the leaders in the green groups are mentally ill
and
> in serious need of deprograming and therapy. Their "love" of the earth
> is not love but an unhealthy obsession. What they essentially do is
> stalk their earth love and anyone who may have divergent interests or
> uses for it other than their own. Burning, terrorizing, intimidation,
> obstruction and litigation are their means to "protect" her ( in
their
> sick minds) from those they state would rape and misuse her.
> It is time to clearly draw the line between good land management
> practices and science, and the druidic, earth worshiping fanaticism
that
> is being foisted upon the people of North America by the green
> organizations across the country.
> Sincerely,
> Glynn Burkhardt
>
> Subject:
> Arizona Fire Update
> Date:
> 24 Jun 2002 23:39:09 -0000
> From:
> "Center for Biological Diveristy"
> <center@b...>
> Reply-To:
> notice-reply-i8gkwb4r78xmbm@a...
> To:
>
>
>
>
> NEWS ADVISORY: Monday, June 24
> CONTACT: Brian Segee, (520) 623-5252 x308
> More Information:
> http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
>
> STATE PRESSURED FOREST SERVICE TO HALT FUELS REDUCTION
> PROJECT IN RODEO BURN AREA
>
> GOVERNOR HULL SCAPEGOATS ENVIRONMENTALISTS FOR LARGEST
> FIRES IN ARIZONA HISTORY
>
> As Arizona faces its largest wildfire in history with
> hundreds of homes destroyed and thousands of people
> evacuated from their homes, Governor Jane Hull has
> seized upon the tragedy to advance her own anti-environmental
> agenda: On Sunday, June 23rd, Hull appeared on television
> to blame environmentalists for the fire.
>
> The Governor predictably failed to explain how environmentalists
> were to blame for the fires. Additionally, the Governor
> failed to mention 1) that a prescribed fire set by
> the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuel loads within
> the burned area was stopped by state intervention,
> 2) the vast majority of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forests have been previously logged by the U.S. Forest
> Service, 3) a recent report by the Government Accounting
> Office (GAO) found that only 1% of Forest Service fuel
> reduction projects were challenged with appeals or
> lawsuits, and 4) a second recent report by the GAO
> found that the Forest Service has misdirected funds
> from its massive fuels reduction budget away from the
> protection of rural communities threatened by fire.
>
>
> The Los Angeles Times recently reported that a prescribed
> fire set by the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuels
> in what is now the Rodeo-Chediski fire was stopped
> by unwarranted intervention by state agencies:
>
> "When controlled burns were set recently in the Apache
> Sitgreaves National Forest, where the Rodeo fire now
> rages, nearby residents complained to state air quality
> officials about the smoke. The state pressured Forest
> Service officials to extinguish the blazes prematurely,
> Anderson (planner on the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forest) said. "Other plans to start controlled burns
> have been blocked by litigation, he said." (17 Blazes
> Charring the West, Los Angeles Times, 6-23-02).
>
> The Governor's scapegoating of environmentalists is
> fundamentally inaccurate. The Center for Biological
> Diversity (CBD), Sierra Club, Southwest Forest Alliance
> and other environmental organizations have long supported
> the use of both prescribed fire and thinning of small-diameter
> trees as the most effective methods to reduce fire
> danger within Southwestern ponderosa pine forests.
> Ironically, CBD sits on Governor's Forest Health/Fire
> Plan Advisory Committee, a group appointed by Jane
> Hull to advise governor on community protection and
> forest restoration issues and to make recommendations
> on where to spend National Fire Plan funds. We also
> are on Senator Bingaman's (D-NM) Community Forest Restoration
> Program Advisory Committee, which is charged with distribution
> of $ 5 million annually to rural communities for forest
> restoration and community protection.
>
> "The Governor is opportunistically and cynically using
> this on-going tragedy to further an anti-environmental
> agenda," stated Brian Segee with CBD. "Not only do
> we strongly support community protection efforts such
> as wildland-urban interface treatments, prescribed
> burning and small-diameter thinning, we are deeply
> involved in on-going collaborative and governmental
> efforts to make such goals a reality."
>
> Independent studies conducted by the federal government
> also directly contradict charges that environmental
> organizations are preventing needed fuels reduction
> projects from being completed. As stated in an August
> 2001 report by the Government Accounting Office (GAO),
> an independent investigative branch of Congress:
>
> "In summary, as of July 18, 2001, the Forest Service
> has completed the necessary environmental analysis
> and had decided to implement 1,671 hazardous fuel reduction
> projects in fiscal year 2001. Of these projects, 20
> (about 1 percent) had been appealed and none had been
> litigated. Appellants included environmental groups,
> recreation groups, private industry interests, and
> individuals."
>
> Under the National Fire Plan, passed in the wake of
> 2000's intense fire season, the Forest Service and
> other federal agencies were given over $2 billion
> to thin brush and small-diameter trees, with an emphasis
> on community protection. GAO research has concluded
> that the Forest Service could not account for how this
> money was being spent. In a January 2002 GAO report
> entitled "Severe Wildland Fires: Leadership and Accountability
> Needed to Reduce Risks to Communities and Resources,"
> it is stated:
>
> "Over a year after the Congress substantially increased
> funds to reduce hazardous fuels, the federal effort
> still lacks clearly defined and effective leadership
> . . .it is not possible to determine if the $796 million
> appropriated for hazardous fuels reduction in fiscal
> years 2001 and 2002 is targeted to the communities
> and other areas at highest risk of severe wildland
> fires."
>
> Finally, forgotten in the Governor's continued and
> escalating attack against environmentalists is the
> fact that almost all of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forests where the two fires are burning has been intensively
> logged. Almost no area along the relatively flat and
> easily accessible Mogollon Rim has been spared from
> logging.
>
> For more information,
> http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
>
> (end)
>
57181 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:54pm
Subject: Re: Message to Bill Witt...
A big DITTO. Please let us know if there's anything we can do.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: <k7ant@t...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:45 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Message to Bill Witt...
> Bill,
>
> I don't know if or when you might see this but I hope you and
> your family are safe and that your home has been spared. Let
> me know if there is anything I can do to help you out.
>
> -Roger
>
> (For those of you who don't know Bill, he is an AZVJC member
> who lives in Heber.)
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
57182 From: AzVJC Website <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:15pm
Subject: [FS] FREE Stuff
Price: 0-Zilch-nada
Contact: trmn8rjn98@aol.com
Ok I have a set of pretty worn 31" bfg ATs on stock steel wheels (Very experienced on rocks ;-)) do hold air though. &; a set of 91 sahara wheels greenish gold stock steels 2 with very low tread 31" BFG Muds. As well as a couple of ford 2 barrel carbs 2100 (1.21s)
All in Fountain Hills
John
John Norton
57183 From: AzVJC Website <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:22pm
Subject: [FS] CHEAP STUFF
Price:
Contact: trmn8rjn98@aol.com
OK I have a set of 32x11.50x15 big O ATs still have some good miles in them have pics of the tread probably 40%-25% $75.00 all 4.
A full set of YJ sahara flares &; side steps in good shape $50.00
4 15x8 Factory Gamblers with lots of rock rash (but still straight) $100.00
All in Fountain Hills
John
John Norton
57184 From: AzVJC Website <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:26pm
Subject: [FS] WANTED BAD 33x12.5 MTR for spare any amount of tread
Price: Depends on tire
Contact: trmn8rjn98@aol.com
Hi I am looking for 1 or more 33x12.50x15 Goodyear MTR.
Please contact me with what you have.
thanks
John
John Norton
57185 From: Eric Marble <emarble3@p...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:28pm
Subject: Re: Message to Bill Witt...
any of you guys out there have access to a big delivery truck? 24 or 26 foot
box truck. The salvation army needs help moving supplies up north. I have
two so far.
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "DougB" <azjeep@c...>
To: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>; <k7ant@t...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Message to Bill Witt...
> A big DITTO. Please let us know if there's anything we can do.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
> To: <k7ant@t...>
> Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:45 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Message to Bill Witt...
>
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > I don't know if or when you might see this but I hope you and
> > your family are safe and that your home has been spared. Let
> > me know if there is anything I can do to help you out.
> >
> > -Roger
> >
> > (For those of you who don't know Bill, he is an AZVJC member
> > who lives in Heber.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
57186 From: Christopher H. Dewey <cubs.fan@c...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:39pm
Subject: Suspension Lift Questions
All,
I've really enjoyed the ride of the Old Man Emu lift on my '99 TJ, but I have noticed that my jeep is now an inch or so higher on the driver's side and it creaks when I start rolling.
I've been told that it's normal for springs to break in at different rates and that parking it for an hour or so with the high side up on some rocks would ensure that the springs break-in evenly (which apparently hasn't happened in the 3 months I've had the lift). Think that will work? How high will the rocks need to be?
Assuming tilt-o-parking isn't going to fix this, I've been told that using coil spacers of varying height could easily get me back to level again. How hard are these to install? Would I have to get a spring compressor, etc. or could these be slid in place without removing the springs? Can they be used in conjunction with coil spring isolators or additional spacers to level the Jeep?
On to the creaking problem. Before the Old Man Emu lift there were 1 3/4" spacers front and rear. I heard some noise when I let the clutch out, but a replacement of the rear u-joints seems to have fixed that. Right now I have very short isolators -- maybe 3/4" -- up front and nothing in the back from what I can see. Could having nothing in the back be causing the creaking I hear when I start moving forwards or backwards? If so, would a set of coil spring isolators or spacers for all four corners stop the creaking? Would I be able to put the old 1 3/4" spacers back in, or would shock travel force me to go with something really small like a set of 1/4" isolators? I currently have N66/N67 and OME933/OME942 springs and shocks.
Looking at the whole problem, would I be able to move the 3/4" isolator that's on the front driver's side to the rear passenger side -- along with the isolators -- to get a quiet and level ride?
Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris Dewey
cubs.fan@cox.net
57187 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:47pm
Subject: Re: Greens Screaming Foul
I've been very quite on several list today, trying to find hard facts and
not simply knee jerking. The thing that I find interesting are the facts.
I find nothing in the statement (below issued by the CBD) to be "wildly
failing about blaming...."..
I see nothing but easily checked facts such as:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Additionally, the Governor
> failed to mention 1) that a prescribed fire set by
> the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuel loads within
> the burned area was stopped by state intervention,
> 2) the vast majority of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forests have been previously logged by the U.S. Forest
> Service, 3) a recent report by the Government Accounting
> Office (GAO) found that only 1% of Forest Service fuel
> reduction projects were challenged with appeals or
> lawsuits, and 4) a second recent report by the GAO
> found that the Forest Service has misdirected funds
> from its massive fuels reduction budget away from the
> protection of rural communities threatened by fire.
>
>
> The Los Angeles Times recently reported that a prescribed
> fire set by the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuels
> in what is now the Rodeo-Chediski fire was stopped
> by unwarranted intervention by state agencies:
>
> "When controlled burns were set recently in the Apache
> Sitgreaves National Forest, where the Rodeo fire now
> rages, nearby residents complained to state air quality
> officials about the smoke. The state pressured Forest
> Service officials to extinguish the blazes prematurely,
> Anderson (planner on the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forest) said. "Other plans to start controlled burns
> have been blocked by litigation, he said." (17 Blazes
> Charring the West, Los Angeles Times, 6-23-02).
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These, I've been able to verify, and I run across them today, while
searching for "facts"..
In a separate e-mail, sent to the az_vcj, just a while ago, was the
following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just read the article on azcentral titled "Forestry policy is hampered by
politics".
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0624fire-policy24.html
The most alarming statistic in that article was the fact that 40 percent of
the Forest Service's annual budget is spent defending itself against
environmental groups. That's astounding and absolutely absurd. Just think
of all the good that could be done with all that money that is wasted
because of frivolous lawsuits filed by the sierra club and other eco-nazis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interestingly enough the article hit upon some of the same facts, such as
the prescribed burn being stopped:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
forest officials said prescribed burns in the northern part of Hop Canyon,
southwest of Show Low, could have slowed the growth of the Rodeo fire.
But political wrangling prevented the burns because residents north of Hop
Canyon did not want smoke and ashes coming into their area, said Chaden
Palmer, a Forest Service spokesman.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A "fact" that I've not been able to verify, and I've been searching a lot
is:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
According to Sentator Kyl, up to 40% of the USFS budget has been spent in
defending lawsuits from the anti-recreationists.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll e-mail the Senator tomorrow and ask for references for the above. I
would tonight, but I don't have his e-mail address here at home. If anyone
sends it to me, I'll e-mail him tonight.
Another thing that's popped up, that's been of interest to me, is the
following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Under the National Fire Plan, passed in the wake of
> 2000's intense fire season, the Forest Service and
> other federal agencies were given over $2 billion
> to thin brush and small-diameter trees, with an emphasis
> on community protection. GAO research has concluded
> that the Forest Service could not account for how this
> money was being spent. In a January 2002 GAO report
> entitled "Severe Wildland Fires: Leadership and Accountability
> Needed to Reduce Risks to Communities and Resources,"
> it is stated:
>
> "Over a year after the Congress substantially increased
> funds to reduce hazardous fuels, the federal effort
> still lacks clearly defined and effective leadership
> . . .it is not possible to determine if the $796 million
> appropriated for hazardous fuels reduction in fiscal
> years 2001 and 2002 is targeted to the communities
> and other areas at highest risk of severe wildland
> fires."
~~~~~~~~~~
Millions of dollars have to allocated to the FS, earmarked strickly for
controlled burns and forest thinning and they appear to have been lost.
I'm in no way defending the Sierra Club and other "greenie groups" , but I'm
failing to find facts backing up some of the claims being made by others.
Most of which are appearing to be knee jerk reactions.
I'll stand in line to point a finger, or fingers at the people or
organizations that may be to blame. But, basically, so far, the only one
that I've finding, with references to back it up, is the FS mis-management
of the forest, basically but not burning more (controlled burns) and an
almost century old policy of putting out every fire, even in the remote
areas. They've also failed to thin (not by logging though) forest around
populated areas. Much of this has been driven by the timber industry, which
until the late 1980's and maybe early 1990's was a source of major income
for the FS. Much of this income basically stopped in the early 1990's when
the public got tired of their tax money going to fund the construction of
FSA roads for use by the timber companies, so they could get access to more
forest land, to log and sell for a profit.
Well, this is long enough. I'll continue searching and searching and
searching, for hard facts. This is something that I've choosen to do for
myself, for my own education, and it's just getting interesting.
Anyway, the fire is a great tragdy, with large property loss. The reasons
for the fire are many, not the least, is the fact that we have in the second
year of one of the worst droughts in history, with the moisture content of
living trees less than that of kiln dried timber !! As I mentioned in a
previous e-mail, my heart goes out to all those that have been directly
affected by this diaster. I've contributed what I felt I could, money wise,
and will continue to help in any way that I can and that I feel comfortable
with.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judith Raya" <jraya@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:32 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Greens Screaming Foul
> Good day from the PCCFMU,
> > The Center for Biological Diversity is wildly flailing about blaming
> > everyone including the state of Arizona for the fires in the White
> > Mountains. These people are so fanatical in their "love" of mother
> earth
> > that they will see her burn rather than admit to their mistakes and
> > allow responsible land and forest management to take place. It is my
> > belief that most of the leaders in the green groups are mentally ill
> and
> > in serious need of deprograming and therapy. Their "love" of the earth
>
> > is not love but an unhealthy obsession. What they essentially do is
> > stalk their earth love and anyone who may have divergent interests or
> > uses for it other than their own. Burning, terrorizing, intimidation,
> > obstruction and litigation are their means to "protect" her ( in
> their
> > sick minds) from those they state would rape and misuse her.
> > It is time to clearly draw the line between good land management
> > practices and science, and the druidic, earth worshiping fanaticism
> that
> > is being foisted upon the people of North America by the green
> > organizations across the country.
> > Sincerely,
> > Glynn Burkhardt
> >
> > Subject:
> > Arizona Fire Update
> > Date:
> > 24 Jun 2002 23:39:09 -0000
> > From:
> > "Center for Biological Diveristy"
> > <center@b...>
> > Reply-To:
> > notice-reply-i8gkwb4r78xmbm@a...
> > To:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > NEWS ADVISORY: Monday, June 24
> > CONTACT: Brian Segee, (520) 623-5252 x308
> > More Information:
> > http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
> >
> > STATE PRESSURED FOREST SERVICE TO HALT FUELS REDUCTION
> > PROJECT IN RODEO BURN AREA
> >
> > GOVERNOR HULL SCAPEGOATS ENVIRONMENTALISTS FOR LARGEST
> > FIRES IN ARIZONA HISTORY
> >
> > As Arizona faces its largest wildfire in history with
> > hundreds of homes destroyed and thousands of people
> > evacuated from their homes, Governor Jane Hull has
> > seized upon the tragedy to advance her own anti-environmental
> > agenda: On Sunday, June 23rd, Hull appeared on television
> > to blame environmentalists for the fire.
> >
> > The Governor predictably failed to explain how environmentalists
> > were to blame for the fires. Additionally, the Governor
> > failed to mention 1) that a prescribed fire set by
> > the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuel loads within
> > the burned area was stopped by state intervention,
> > 2) the vast majority of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> > Forests have been previously logged by the U.S. Forest
> > Service, 3) a recent report by the Government Accounting
> > Office (GAO) found that only 1% of Forest Service fuel
> > reduction projects were challenged with appeals or
> > lawsuits, and 4) a second recent report by the GAO
> > found that the Forest Service has misdirected funds
> > from its massive fuels reduction budget away from the
> > protection of rural communities threatened by fire.
> >
> >
> > The Los Angeles Times recently reported that a prescribed
> > fire set by the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuels
> > in what is now the Rodeo-Chediski fire was stopped
> > by unwarranted intervention by state agencies:
> >
> > "When controlled burns were set recently in the Apache
> > Sitgreaves National Forest, where the Rodeo fire now
> > rages, nearby residents complained to state air quality
> > officials about the smoke. The state pressured Forest
> > Service officials to extinguish the blazes prematurely,
> > Anderson (planner on the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> > Forest) said. "Other plans to start controlled burns
> > have been blocked by litigation, he said." (17 Blazes
> > Charring the West, Los Angeles Times, 6-23-02).
> >
> > The Governor's scapegoating of environmentalists is
> > fundamentally inaccurate. The Center for Biological
> > Diversity (CBD), Sierra Club, Southwest Forest Alliance
> > and other environmental organizations have long supported
> > the use of both prescribed fire and thinning of small-diameter
> > trees as the most effective methods to reduce fire
> > danger within Southwestern ponderosa pine forests.
> > Ironically, CBD sits on Governor's Forest Health/Fire
> > Plan Advisory Committee, a group appointed by Jane
> > Hull to advise governor on community protection and
> > forest restoration issues and to make recommendations
> > on where to spend National Fire Plan funds. We also
> > are on Senator Bingaman's (D-NM) Community Forest Restoration
> > Program Advisory Committee, which is charged with distribution
> > of $ 5 million annually to rural communities for forest
> > restoration and community protection.
> >
> > "The Governor is opportunistically and cynically using
> > this on-going tragedy to further an anti-environmental
> > agenda," stated Brian Segee with CBD. "Not only do
> > we strongly support community protection efforts such
> > as wildland-urban interface treatments, prescribed
> > burning and small-diameter thinning, we are deeply
> > involved in on-going collaborative and governmental
> > efforts to make such goals a reality."
> >
> > Independent studies conducted by the federal government
> > also directly contradict charges that environmental
> > organizations are preventing needed fuels reduction
> > projects from being completed. As stated in an August
> > 2001 report by the Government Accounting Office (GAO),
> > an independent investigative branch of Congress:
> >
> > "In summary, as of July 18, 2001, the Forest Service
> > has completed the necessary environmental analysis
> > and had decided to implement 1,671 hazardous fuel reduction
> > projects in fiscal year 2001. Of these projects, 20
> > (about 1 percent) had been appealed and none had been
> > litigated. Appellants included environmental groups,
> > recreation groups, private industry interests, and
> > individuals."
> >
> > Under the National Fire Plan, passed in the wake of
> > 2000's intense fire season, the Forest Service and
> > other federal agencies were given over $2 billion
> > to thin brush and small-diameter trees, with an emphasis
> > on community protection. GAO research has concluded
> > that the Forest Service could not account for how this
> > money was being spent. In a January 2002 GAO report
> > entitled "Severe Wildland Fires: Leadership and Accountability
> > Needed to Reduce Risks to Communities and Resources,"
> > it is stated:
> >
> > "Over a year after the Congress substantially increased
> > funds to reduce hazardous fuels, the federal effort
> > still lacks clearly defined and effective leadership
> > . . .it is not possible to determine if the $796 million
> > appropriated for hazardous fuels reduction in fiscal
> > years 2001 and 2002 is targeted to the communities
> > and other areas at highest risk of severe wildland
> > fires."
> >
> > Finally, forgotten in the Governor's continued and
> > escalating attack against environmentalists is the
> > fact that almost all of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> > Forests where the two fires are burning has been intensively
> > logged. Almost no area along the relatively flat and
> > easily accessible Mogollon Rim has been spared from
> > logging.
> >
> > For more information,
> > http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
> >
> > (end)
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
57188 From: Halverson <byrnec@q...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:43pm
Subject: Re: Where to get Xylene??
Most any professional paint supply store will carry it. Sometimes in my work
we need xylene and that is were we go.
John Halverson
'99TJ
'51CJ3A
----- Original Message -----
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 3:48 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Where to get Xylene??
> Ok, I need some xylene as I am going to herc my tub, but I couldnt
> find it at Ace, home depot or Lowes. Where can I get it? Thanks;P
>
> Scott Maiden
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
57189 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:30pm
Subject: RE: Suspension Lift Questions
Chris,
This is a first I have ever heard of a lift with height differences from side to side. If I had to guess I'd think that you have installed a rear spring up front on one side. But hey that is just a guess, I am a YJ owner. I also think that is bull about the springs breaking in at different rates, what I should say is the fronts should wear relatively the same but they should sit even for a while after install. I say relatively because your engine will produce torque that will cause one side to squat more after a considerable amount of time. After which you will want to swap the two front springs.
You also may want to make sure your axel is centered under the Jeep. You should have a track bar relocator or a longer adjustable track bar. An uncentered axel may give the illusion of a tilted Jeep.
Just some thoughts
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher H. Dewey [mailto:cubs.fan@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 9:39 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Suspension Lift Questions
All,
I've really enjoyed the ride of the Old Man Emu lift on my '99 TJ, but I have noticed that my jeep is now an inch or so higher on the driver's side and it creaks when I start rolling.
I've been told that it's normal for springs to break in at different rates and that parking it for an hour or so with the high side up on some rocks would ensure that the springs break-in evenly (which apparently hasn't happened in the 3 months I've had the lift). Think that will work? How high will the rocks need to be?
Assuming tilt-o-parking isn't going to fix this, I've been told that using coil spacers of varying height could easily get me back to level again. How hard are these to install? Would I have to get a spring compressor, etc. or could these be slid in place without removing the springs? Can they be used in conjunction with coil spring isolators or additional spacers to level the Jeep?
On to the creaking problem. Before the Old Man Emu lift there were 1 3/4" spacers front and rear. I heard some noise when I let the clutch out, but a replacement of the rear u-joints seems to have fixed that. Right now I have very short isolators -- maybe 3/4" -- up front and nothing in the back from what I can see. Could having nothing in the back be causing the creaking I hear when I start moving forwards or backwards? If so, would a set of coil spring isolators or spacers for all four corners stop the creaking? Would I be able to put the old 1 3/4" spacers back in, or would shock travel force me to go with something really small like a set of 1/4" isolators? I currently have N66/N67 and OME933/OME942 springs and shocks.
Looking at the whole problem, would I be able to move the 3/4" isolator that's on the front driver's side to the rear passenger side -- along with the isolators -- to get a quiet and level ride?
Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris Dewey
cubs.fan@cox.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
57190 From: Michael Lake <xjcountry93@m...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 0:18am
Subject: Fw: Officials blame environmentalists for wildfires!
www.groups.yahoo.com/myprefs?edit=2
I have bean bouncing, my settings said soft bounce and had to change to normal. I notice no one has posted in a while, thought every one else may be doing the same.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Lake
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:38 PM
To: My-wheelin-rights; Jeepers Group
Subject: Officials blame environmentalists for wildfires!
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/24/wildfires.thinning.ap/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Gehrke, a forest expert with the Wilderness Society, said it is naive to think that cutting down trees will solve the fire problems.
"They're kidding themselves if they think they can control all the forces in the forest," he said. "In drought years, forests are going to burn."
He said taking out small trees leaves flammable material on the forest floor and can make it more prone to fire. The best solution, he said, is setting targeted fires during the early spring and late fall months to clear out excessive growth.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is out of the article. Burn the woods or thin them out?
Michael!
-------------------------------
He who dies with the most toys,
Still dies!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
57191 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:17am
Subject: RE: Suspension Lift Questions
Chris,
The ride height difference between driver and passenger side springs is very common on a lifted TJ and always (as you have experienced) the passenger side sits lower.
Having many friends who have experienced this (as well as experiencing this myself), I can tell you that there is an easy fix:
Get a terraflex adjustable rear track bar.
The primary reason that the right side sits lower is because your rear track bar is binding at the point where it attaches to the frame on the right (no surprise) side of your Jeep. When you get the terraflex adjustable rear track bar, you can adjust the bar so that the binding is minimized AND the bar is designed to minimize axial loading of the bar itself so that there is virtually no way for the bar to bind up.
Joe West
All,
I've really enjoyed the ride of the Old Man Emu lift on my '99 TJ, but I have noticed that my jeep is now an inch or so higher on the driver's side and it creaks when I start rolling.
I've been told that it's normal for springs to break in at different rates and that parking it for an hour or so w
57192 From: Theresa Kruize <theresakruize@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:27am
Subject: Fire Info
INCIDENT MANAGEMENT SITUATION REPORT
TUESDAY, JUNE 25, 2002 - 0530 MDT
NATIONAL PREPAREDNESS LEVEL 5
CURRENT SITUATION:
Initial attack activity was moderate in the Rocky
Mountain, Northern
California and Southwest Areas, and light elsewhere.
Nationally, 168
new
fires were reported. Three of these became large
fires, one each in the
Southern California, Southern and Southwest Areas. Two
large fires were
contained in the Southwest Area. Very high to extreme
fire indices were
reported in Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado,
Kansas, Nevada, New
Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.
SOUTHWEST AREA LARGE FIRES:
Priorities are being established by the Southwest
Multi-Agency
Coordinating Group based on information submitted via
Wildland Fire
Situation Analysis reports and Incident Status Summary
(ICS-209) forms.
An
Area Command Team (Ribar) is assigned to manage the
Rodeo and Chediski
fires.
RODEO, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Fort Apache Agency.
Two Type 1
Incident
Management Teams (Humphrey and Bateman) are assigned.
This wind and
fuel
driven fire is burning in ponderosa pine, juniper and
brush three miles
north of Cibecue, AZ. Extreme fire behavior was
observed. Crews are
burning out from Cottonwood Canyon to Highway 60. Show
Low, Pinedale,
Lakeside, Clay Springs, Pinetop, Hon Dah, Linden and
surrounding
populated
areas remain evacuated. Structure protection is in
place. Evacuation
centers are open in Winslow and Holbrook. Highway 260
and 277 are
closed.
Forty-five additional residences were lost.
CHEDISKI, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Fort Apache
Agency. A Type 1
Incident
Management Team (Dash) is assigned. An additional Type
1 Incident
Management Team (Martin) has been ordered. This wind
and fuel driven
fire,
burning in chaparral, ponderosa pine, juniper and
pinyon pine, is 12
miles
northwest of Cibecue, AZ. Steady southwest winds
resulted in active
fire
behavior, with crowning and long range spotting
observed during the
afternoon. Crews are constructing handline on the
south and west flanks
and engines are patrolling and mopping up. The Forest
Lakes subdivision
and the towns of Heber and Overgaard remain evacuated.
Structure
protection is in place. Fifteen additional residences
were lost.
ROYBAL/TRAMPAS, Santa Fe National Forest. The Roybal
fire is four miles
northeast of Pecos, NM and the Trampas fire is in the
Pecos Wilderness
Area, eight miles west of Rociada, NM. The fires are
burning in
ponderosa
pine and mixed conifer forest. No new information was
reported.
HIPPY, Bureau of Land Management, Yuma-Havasu Field
Office. This fire
is 1
mile south of Palo Verde, AZ and is burning in salt
cedar and
cottonwood.
Isolated flare-ups were observed. Favorable weather
conditions assisted
containment efforts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
INCIDENT |ST|UNIT| SIZE | % | EST
|TOTAL|CRW|ENG|HELI|STRC| $$$
NAME | | | |CTN| CTN |PERS | |
| |LOSS|C-T-D
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
RODEO |AZ| FTA|210000| 0| UNK| 1520| 39|
30| 11| 150| 4.0M
CHEDISKI |AZ| FTA|121340| 0| UNK| 708| 27|
23| 4| 140| 2.0M
ROYBAL/TRAMPAS |NM| SNF| 5655| 25| UNK| 652| 4|
12| 5| 0| 5.5M
HIPPY |AZ| YUD| 416| 99| UNK| 36| 1|
4| 0| 0| NR
COMMUNITY |AZ| CNF| 855|100| -| 96| 2|
4| 1| 0| 41K
ALAMEDA |NM| N3S| 300|100| -| 0| 0|
0| 0| 0| 62K
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CNF = Coronado National Forest
N3S = New Mexico State Forestry Office, Socorro
District
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
57193 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:14am
Subject: Re: [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
I saw an representative from the Sierra Club on TV last night. He
said, we are willing to let the FS cut down trees that are less than
9" in diameter. The FS spokesman's reply was, just cutting the trees
less than 9" diameter doesn't help the total plan.
From what I gathered, they (the FS and Sierra Club) have been
dickering back and forth and haven't come to an agreement so nothing
has been done about thinning.
There was no comments made one way or the other about controlled
burns, in this interview.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., FredTJ <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> Are we suggesting that some greenies aren't in favor of controlled
burns. They all seem to be, and they are in favor of letting remote
fires burn, and most in forest thinning. Note, though, that forest
thinning is not logging..
> I just taped a local news report with some "greenies" asking what's
happened to the millions and millions of dollars that have been
allocated to the FS for just those purposes. That is controlled burns
and manual thinning around occupied areas of the forest.
>
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
57194 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:00am
Subject: Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az fires????
Since this is one of those VERY easy runs, are you going to roll
again Sharky??
LOL
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., sharxjeep@c... wrote:
> That sounds like a great idea...they need all the help they can get
right now.
>
> Sharky
57195 From: David Withers <dwithers@a...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:18am
Subject: RE: Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az fires????
The ceo of the red cross lives in a million dollar mansion,,,,,, get a
clue.
-----Original Message-----
From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:07 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
fires????
Don't know what y'all are seeing on the news up in Phoenix, but here, in
Tucson, that are saying that they DON'T need food. They have more than
they know what to do with (food that is) at all of the shelters. They do
need pet supplies, and things like gloves, socks, lip balm, toliet
items, etc... Also, whoever said that they don't need cash, is jsut flat
wrong. The Red Cross was on the news, saying, YES they need and will
take money. They also didn't want a lot of people traveling around up
around the areas, as it's congested enough as it is. The Red Cross can
furnish the names and locations of drop off areas for supplies and
money.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: <sharxjeep@c...>
To: <gunslinger@i...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
fires????
> That sounds like a great idea...they need all the help they can get
> right
now.
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
57196 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:23am
Subject: Re: Suspension Lift Questions
Actually the OME springs are different lengths, side to side, and are marked; PS-> passenger side; DS -> driver side. Since the OME lift is made in Australia, the springs normally require swapping from side to side. Most people find that they only have to swap the rears, that is place the rear spring marked DS on the right side and the one marked PS on the left side. If that doesn't do it, then swap the fronts also.
I've owned an OME lift before, and I helped install it, after I sold it to a friend, in their Jeep, and just recently helped install another one. Try the rear spring swap.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe W
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Suspension Lift Questions
Chris,
The ride height difference between driver and passenger side springs is very common on a lifted TJ and always (as you have experienced) the passenger side sits lower.
Having many friends who have experienced this (as well as experiencing this myself), I can tell you that there is an easy fix:
Get a terraflex adjustable rear track bar.
The primary reason that the right side sits lower is because your rear track bar is binding at the point where it attaches to the frame on the right (no surprise) side of your Jeep. When you get the terraflex adjustable rear track bar, you can adjust the bar so that the binding is minimized AND the bar is designed to minimize axial loading of the bar itself so that there is virtually no way for the bar to bind up.
Joe West
All,
I've really enjoyed the ride of the Old Man Emu lift on my '99 TJ, but I have noticed that my jeep is now an inch or so higher on the driver's side and it creaks when I start rolling.
I've been told that it's normal for springs to break in at different rates and that parking it for an hour or so w
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
57197 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:36am
Subject: Re: Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az fires????
"The ceo of the red cross lives in a million dollar mansion"
So, maybe I do also.. Get a clue.
If he live in city housing would that mean anything different.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Withers" <dwithers@a...>
To: "'FredTJ'" <fredtj@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:18 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
fires????
> The ceo of the red cross lives in a million dollar mansion,,,,,, get a
> clue.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:07 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
> fires????
>
>
> Don't know what y'all are seeing on the news up in Phoenix, but here, in
> Tucson, that are saying that they DON'T need food. They have more than
> they know what to do with (food that is) at all of the shelters. They do
> need pet supplies, and things like gloves, socks, lip balm, toliet
> items, etc... Also, whoever said that they don't need cash, is jsut flat
> wrong. The Red Cross was on the news, saying, YES they need and will
> take money. They also didn't want a lot of people traveling around up
> around the areas, as it's congested enough as it is. The Red Cross can
> furnish the names and locations of drop off areas for supplies and
> money.
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sharxjeep@c...>
> To: <gunslinger@i...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
> fires????
>
>
> > That sounds like a great idea...they need all the help they can get
> > right
> now.
> >
> > Sharky
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
57198 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:44am
Subject: Re: Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az fires????
Whether anyone wants to donate money to the Red Cross, or not, is their
decision. I was simply correcting the mis-information from the original
poster who said that the Red Cross was not accepting money.
Mis-information is not what's needed
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Withers" <dwithers@a...>
To: "'FredTJ'" <fredtj@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:18 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
fires????
> The ceo of the red cross lives in a million dollar mansion,,,,,, get a
> clue.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:07 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
> fires????
>
>
> Don't know what y'all are seeing on the news up in Phoenix, but here, in
> Tucson, that are saying that they DON'T need food. They have more than
> they know what to do with (food that is) at all of the shelters. They do
> need pet supplies, and things like gloves, socks, lip balm, toliet
> items, etc... Also, whoever said that they don't need cash, is jsut flat
> wrong. The Red Cross was on the news, saying, YES they need and will
> take money. They also didn't want a lot of people traveling around up
> around the areas, as it's congested enough as it is. The Red Cross can
> furnish the names and locations of drop off areas for supplies and
> money.
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sharxjeep@c...>
> To: <gunslinger@i...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
> fires????
>
>
> > That sounds like a great idea...they need all the help they can get
> > right
> now.
> >
> > Sharky
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
57199 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:54am
Subject: [FS] 1987 NISSAN PATHFINDER 4x4 FIRST $1900.00 FIRM
Price: $1900.00
Contact: 602-579-5132
1987 NISSAN PATHFINDER 4x4,6 cyl.,5 speed,COLD A/C,pw,pb,tilt,sun roof,(LOOKS &; RUNS GOOD),$1900.00 FIRM. CALL 602-579-5132
Bruce Boc
57200 From: sign_xpressions <sign_xpressions@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:54am
Subject: possible fire run decal?????
I was thinking of making a fire run decal...or somthing that
shows our support....with the profits going to the red cross or
someone...but i don't know if we would be interested in
something like this....this was what i came up with yesterday.
http://home.earthlink.net/~aduncanphotos/Images/Fire1.jpg
need some input...i don't want to make money off this this
fire...but was trying to find something i could do...i'am interested
in doing something to help out...if we need to take stuff up or
move some stuff around i have 6x12 atv trailer we could use..
-Andrew
57201 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:56am
Subject: Re: Re: [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
Regardiing the controlled burns, though I haven't had time to check
everything yet (it'll take a while), I'm not seeing resistance from any
particular "green" group against controlled burns. The only information that
I've found so far is "do controlled burns".. The couple that I've found that
have been stopped (controlled burns) were stopped by other people, not
"greenies".. The State stopped one (stepped in and stopped the FS for
starting it) in the general area of the current fire, because residents were
complaining about the possiblity of smoke, for instance.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 7:14 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
>
> I saw an representative from the Sierra Club on TV last night. He
> said, we are willing to let the FS cut down trees that are less than
> 9" in diameter. The FS spokesman's reply was, just cutting the trees
> less than 9" diameter doesn't help the total plan.
>
> From what I gathered, they (the FS and Sierra Club) have been
> dickering back and forth and haven't come to an agreement so nothing
> has been done about thinning.
>
> There was no comments made one way or the other about controlled
> burns, in this interview.
>
> --James
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., FredTJ <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> > Are we suggesting that some greenies aren't in favor of controlled
> burns. They all seem to be, and they are in favor of letting remote
> fires burn, and most in forest thinning. Note, though, that forest
> thinning is not logging..
> > I just taped a local news report with some "greenies" asking what's
> happened to the millions and millions of dollars that have been
> allocated to the FS for just those purposes. That is controlled burns
> and manual thinning around occupied areas of the forest.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Fred
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
57177 From: RICK BEER <rickbeer105@y...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:18pm
Subject: Re: Rick Beers
4TH AVE & BELL RD 602-942-9603
george Andrews wrote:
It's almost time for new tires on my rig. I've heard lots of good things about Rick...but never kept his location nor number. Can somebody provide me with Rick's phone?
George Andrews
'83 Cherokee WT, 454TBI, TH400, QT, d44s, 35x12.50s, ARBs
'73 Wagoneer, 360, TH400, QT, D30/44, 32x11.50s,
'00 TJ
Avondale Arizona
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
57178 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:34pm
Subject: Re: [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
LOL, I just checked the link I refered to in my letter, it is not
linked to their homepage now either. I can't take any credit because,
this was the same page that annouced one of the "kids" from the Back
Street Boys was on their side, Barry Young & Rush ripped them for
having this as a press release and nothing about our fires.
Good job everyone, keep up the work/pressure.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Fred,
>
> Perhaps the millions and millions that were allocated were diverted
to
> the courtrooms. According to Sentator Kyl, up to 40% of the USFS
budget
> has been spent in defending lawsuits from the anti-recreationists.
>
>
>
> It is interesting in that the URL that I included in my letter to
the
> Sierra Club this morning seems to be no longer linked on their
site. It
> would appear that they removed the link to that page (although the
page
> itself can still be directly accessed with the URL). If it is still
> linked, then they have reshuffled their web pages around so it is
not
> nearly so easy to stumble across. By the way, that was the page
that
> said "forest fires do not pose a major threat to home and
communities".
>
>
>
>
> What do you know..I honestly believe I made a difference!
>
>
>
> Stu Olson
>
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:04 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
>
>
>
> Are we suggesting that some greenies aren't in favor of controlled
> burns. They all seem to be, and they are in favor of letting remote
> fires burn, and most in forest thinning. Note, though, that forest
> thinning is not logging..
>
> I just taped a local news report with some "greenies" asking what's
> happened to the millions and millions of dollars that have been
> allocated to the FS for just those purposes. That is controlled
burns
> and manual thinning around occupied areas of the forest.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: CoyotEddie <mailto:coyoteddie@e...>
>
> To: az_vjc@y... ; Chatfield, <mailto:Mike@A...>
> Mike
>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:27 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
>
>
>
> I just voted its up to 751 votes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Chatfield, Mike <mailto:Mike@A...>
>
> To: 'az_vjc@y...'
>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:42 PM
>
> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
>
>
>
> Right now there is a poll on http://www.azcentral.com:
>
>
>
> "Do you favor controlled burns to prevent wildfires?"
>
>
>
> It is in the middle of the page. Only 500 or so have voted so far,
the
> results are overwhelmingly in favor of controlled burns and forest
> thinning, lets keep it that way and add another 500 to 1000 votes.
>
>
>
> - Mike
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
57179 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:48pm
Subject: RE: interesting post on slashdot.org
At 07:41 PM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Tony...for what it is worth, the computer codes, at least for the TJs,
>are printed in the service manual.
>
>I do agree that diagnostic codes should be made available to anyone that
>wishes to use them.
Even more than that, why weren't car computers provided with standard
RS-232 interfaces and published protocol specs in the first place?
Also, have you ever seen a Chrysler DRB III? With an RS-232 interface
and the protocol specs, it would be easy to write software for a laptop
that would emulate everything a DRB (Diagnostic Readout Box) does,
which goes way beyond just diagnostic codes. I've seen a Chrysler tech
decelerate and accelerate my engine with the DRB, and perform some
other pretty sophisticated analyses. Chrysler doesn't sell the DRB III
to customers though.
Another reason why I hate Chrysler.
Tony
>
>Stu
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:42 PM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] interesting post on slashdot.org
>
>
>Interesting post on slashdot. Here's part of the post text:
>
>SEWilco writes: "A Minneapolis Star Tribune story points out that small
>repair
>shops say they lose money because they don't have access to car computer
>codes.
>These 'codes' are the diagnostic messages used by onboard computers to
>report
>problems and perform tests. Older designs only required a jumper wire
>to make
>a test light flash code patterns, certain dashboard actions to display
>codes,
>or a cheap display terminal from a parts store. Now the interfaces and
>code
>meanings are more complex and undocumented, so only auto dealer repair
>shops
>can easily find causes of some problems. U.S. Senate S.2617 and House
>H. R.
>2735 would force auto manufacturers to share the codes. Sen. Wellstone
>says
>that manufacturers are acting like a cartel, blocking independent shops
>and
>car owners. But GM is being helpful."
>
>Here's the url:
>
>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/25/0156226&mode=thread&tid=126
>
>I certainly hope this/these bills pass because the auto manufacturers
>are
>also shutting out the backyard mechanic or the jeep owner who is stuck
>in the middle of nowhere because the computer is refusing to cooperate
>and start the engine.
>
>Tony
>
>
>--
>even the safest course is fraught with peril
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
57180 From: Judith Raya <jraya@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:32pm
Subject: Greens Screaming Foul
Good day from the PCCFMU,
> The Center for Biological Diversity is wildly flailing about blaming
> everyone including the state of Arizona for the fires in the White
> Mountains. These people are so fanatical in their "love" of mother
earth
> that they will see her burn rather than admit to their mistakes and
> allow responsible land and forest management to take place. It is my
> belief that most of the leaders in the green groups are mentally ill
and
> in serious need of deprograming and therapy. Their "love" of the earth
> is not love but an unhealthy obsession. What they essentially do is
> stalk their earth love and anyone who may have divergent interests or
> uses for it other than their own. Burning, terrorizing, intimidation,
> obstruction and litigation are their means to "protect" her ( in
their
> sick minds) from those they state would rape and misuse her.
> It is time to clearly draw the line between good land management
> practices and science, and the druidic, earth worshiping fanaticism
that
> is being foisted upon the people of North America by the green
> organizations across the country.
> Sincerely,
> Glynn Burkhardt
>
> Subject:
> Arizona Fire Update
> Date:
> 24 Jun 2002 23:39:09 -0000
> From:
> "Center for Biological Diveristy"
> <center@b...>
> Reply-To:
> notice-reply-i8gkwb4r78xmbm@a...
> To:
>
>
>
>
> NEWS ADVISORY: Monday, June 24
> CONTACT: Brian Segee, (520) 623-5252 x308
> More Information:
> http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
>
> STATE PRESSURED FOREST SERVICE TO HALT FUELS REDUCTION
> PROJECT IN RODEO BURN AREA
>
> GOVERNOR HULL SCAPEGOATS ENVIRONMENTALISTS FOR LARGEST
> FIRES IN ARIZONA HISTORY
>
> As Arizona faces its largest wildfire in history with
> hundreds of homes destroyed and thousands of people
> evacuated from their homes, Governor Jane Hull has
> seized upon the tragedy to advance her own anti-environmental
> agenda: On Sunday, June 23rd, Hull appeared on television
> to blame environmentalists for the fire.
>
> The Governor predictably failed to explain how environmentalists
> were to blame for the fires. Additionally, the Governor
> failed to mention 1) that a prescribed fire set by
> the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuel loads within
> the burned area was stopped by state intervention,
> 2) the vast majority of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forests have been previously logged by the U.S. Forest
> Service, 3) a recent report by the Government Accounting
> Office (GAO) found that only 1% of Forest Service fuel
> reduction projects were challenged with appeals or
> lawsuits, and 4) a second recent report by the GAO
> found that the Forest Service has misdirected funds
> from its massive fuels reduction budget away from the
> protection of rural communities threatened by fire.
>
>
> The Los Angeles Times recently reported that a prescribed
> fire set by the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuels
> in what is now the Rodeo-Chediski fire was stopped
> by unwarranted intervention by state agencies:
>
> "When controlled burns were set recently in the Apache
> Sitgreaves National Forest, where the Rodeo fire now
> rages, nearby residents complained to state air quality
> officials about the smoke. The state pressured Forest
> Service officials to extinguish the blazes prematurely,
> Anderson (planner on the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forest) said. "Other plans to start controlled burns
> have been blocked by litigation, he said." (17 Blazes
> Charring the West, Los Angeles Times, 6-23-02).
>
> The Governor's scapegoating of environmentalists is
> fundamentally inaccurate. The Center for Biological
> Diversity (CBD), Sierra Club, Southwest Forest Alliance
> and other environmental organizations have long supported
> the use of both prescribed fire and thinning of small-diameter
> trees as the most effective methods to reduce fire
> danger within Southwestern ponderosa pine forests.
> Ironically, CBD sits on Governor's Forest Health/Fire
> Plan Advisory Committee, a group appointed by Jane
> Hull to advise governor on community protection and
> forest restoration issues and to make recommendations
> on where to spend National Fire Plan funds. We also
> are on Senator Bingaman's (D-NM) Community Forest Restoration
> Program Advisory Committee, which is charged with distribution
> of $ 5 million annually to rural communities for forest
> restoration and community protection.
>
> "The Governor is opportunistically and cynically using
> this on-going tragedy to further an anti-environmental
> agenda," stated Brian Segee with CBD. "Not only do
> we strongly support community protection efforts such
> as wildland-urban interface treatments, prescribed
> burning and small-diameter thinning, we are deeply
> involved in on-going collaborative and governmental
> efforts to make such goals a reality."
>
> Independent studies conducted by the federal government
> also directly contradict charges that environmental
> organizations are preventing needed fuels reduction
> projects from being completed. As stated in an August
> 2001 report by the Government Accounting Office (GAO),
> an independent investigative branch of Congress:
>
> "In summary, as of July 18, 2001, the Forest Service
> has completed the necessary environmental analysis
> and had decided to implement 1,671 hazardous fuel reduction
> projects in fiscal year 2001. Of these projects, 20
> (about 1 percent) had been appealed and none had been
> litigated. Appellants included environmental groups,
> recreation groups, private industry interests, and
> individuals."
>
> Under the National Fire Plan, passed in the wake of
> 2000's intense fire season, the Forest Service and
> other federal agencies were given over $2 billion
> to thin brush and small-diameter trees, with an emphasis
> on community protection. GAO research has concluded
> that the Forest Service could not account for how this
> money was being spent. In a January 2002 GAO report
> entitled "Severe Wildland Fires: Leadership and Accountability
> Needed to Reduce Risks to Communities and Resources,"
> it is stated:
>
> "Over a year after the Congress substantially increased
> funds to reduce hazardous fuels, the federal effort
> still lacks clearly defined and effective leadership
> . . .it is not possible to determine if the $796 million
> appropriated for hazardous fuels reduction in fiscal
> years 2001 and 2002 is targeted to the communities
> and other areas at highest risk of severe wildland
> fires."
>
> Finally, forgotten in the Governor's continued and
> escalating attack against environmentalists is the
> fact that almost all of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forests where the two fires are burning has been intensively
> logged. Almost no area along the relatively flat and
> easily accessible Mogollon Rim has been spared from
> logging.
>
> For more information,
> http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
>
> (end)
>
57181 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:54pm
Subject: Re: Message to Bill Witt...
A big DITTO. Please let us know if there's anything we can do.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: <k7ant@t...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:45 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Message to Bill Witt...
> Bill,
>
> I don't know if or when you might see this but I hope you and
> your family are safe and that your home has been spared. Let
> me know if there is anything I can do to help you out.
>
> -Roger
>
> (For those of you who don't know Bill, he is an AZVJC member
> who lives in Heber.)
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
57182 From: AzVJC Website <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:15pm
Subject: [FS] FREE Stuff
Price: 0-Zilch-nada
Contact: trmn8rjn98@aol.com
Ok I have a set of pretty worn 31" bfg ATs on stock steel wheels (Very experienced on rocks ;-)) do hold air though. &; a set of 91 sahara wheels greenish gold stock steels 2 with very low tread 31" BFG Muds. As well as a couple of ford 2 barrel carbs 2100 (1.21s)
All in Fountain Hills
John
John Norton
57183 From: AzVJC Website <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:22pm
Subject: [FS] CHEAP STUFF
Price:
Contact: trmn8rjn98@aol.com
OK I have a set of 32x11.50x15 big O ATs still have some good miles in them have pics of the tread probably 40%-25% $75.00 all 4.
A full set of YJ sahara flares &; side steps in good shape $50.00
4 15x8 Factory Gamblers with lots of rock rash (but still straight) $100.00
All in Fountain Hills
John
John Norton
57184 From: AzVJC Website <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:26pm
Subject: [FS] WANTED BAD 33x12.5 MTR for spare any amount of tread
Price: Depends on tire
Contact: trmn8rjn98@aol.com
Hi I am looking for 1 or more 33x12.50x15 Goodyear MTR.
Please contact me with what you have.
thanks
John
John Norton
57185 From: Eric Marble <emarble3@p...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:28pm
Subject: Re: Message to Bill Witt...
any of you guys out there have access to a big delivery truck? 24 or 26 foot
box truck. The salvation army needs help moving supplies up north. I have
two so far.
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "DougB" <azjeep@c...>
To: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>; <k7ant@t...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Message to Bill Witt...
> A big DITTO. Please let us know if there's anything we can do.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
> To: <k7ant@t...>
> Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:45 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Message to Bill Witt...
>
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > I don't know if or when you might see this but I hope you and
> > your family are safe and that your home has been spared. Let
> > me know if there is anything I can do to help you out.
> >
> > -Roger
> >
> > (For those of you who don't know Bill, he is an AZVJC member
> > who lives in Heber.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
57186 From: Christopher H. Dewey <cubs.fan@c...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:39pm
Subject: Suspension Lift Questions
All,
I've really enjoyed the ride of the Old Man Emu lift on my '99 TJ, but I have noticed that my jeep is now an inch or so higher on the driver's side and it creaks when I start rolling.
I've been told that it's normal for springs to break in at different rates and that parking it for an hour or so with the high side up on some rocks would ensure that the springs break-in evenly (which apparently hasn't happened in the 3 months I've had the lift). Think that will work? How high will the rocks need to be?
Assuming tilt-o-parking isn't going to fix this, I've been told that using coil spacers of varying height could easily get me back to level again. How hard are these to install? Would I have to get a spring compressor, etc. or could these be slid in place without removing the springs? Can they be used in conjunction with coil spring isolators or additional spacers to level the Jeep?
On to the creaking problem. Before the Old Man Emu lift there were 1 3/4" spacers front and rear. I heard some noise when I let the clutch out, but a replacement of the rear u-joints seems to have fixed that. Right now I have very short isolators -- maybe 3/4" -- up front and nothing in the back from what I can see. Could having nothing in the back be causing the creaking I hear when I start moving forwards or backwards? If so, would a set of coil spring isolators or spacers for all four corners stop the creaking? Would I be able to put the old 1 3/4" spacers back in, or would shock travel force me to go with something really small like a set of 1/4" isolators? I currently have N66/N67 and OME933/OME942 springs and shocks.
Looking at the whole problem, would I be able to move the 3/4" isolator that's on the front driver's side to the rear passenger side -- along with the isolators -- to get a quiet and level ride?
Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris Dewey
cubs.fan@cox.net
57187 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:47pm
Subject: Re: Greens Screaming Foul
I've been very quite on several list today, trying to find hard facts and
not simply knee jerking. The thing that I find interesting are the facts.
I find nothing in the statement (below issued by the CBD) to be "wildly
failing about blaming...."..
I see nothing but easily checked facts such as:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Additionally, the Governor
> failed to mention 1) that a prescribed fire set by
> the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuel loads within
> the burned area was stopped by state intervention,
> 2) the vast majority of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forests have been previously logged by the U.S. Forest
> Service, 3) a recent report by the Government Accounting
> Office (GAO) found that only 1% of Forest Service fuel
> reduction projects were challenged with appeals or
> lawsuits, and 4) a second recent report by the GAO
> found that the Forest Service has misdirected funds
> from its massive fuels reduction budget away from the
> protection of rural communities threatened by fire.
>
>
> The Los Angeles Times recently reported that a prescribed
> fire set by the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuels
> in what is now the Rodeo-Chediski fire was stopped
> by unwarranted intervention by state agencies:
>
> "When controlled burns were set recently in the Apache
> Sitgreaves National Forest, where the Rodeo fire now
> rages, nearby residents complained to state air quality
> officials about the smoke. The state pressured Forest
> Service officials to extinguish the blazes prematurely,
> Anderson (planner on the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> Forest) said. "Other plans to start controlled burns
> have been blocked by litigation, he said." (17 Blazes
> Charring the West, Los Angeles Times, 6-23-02).
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These, I've been able to verify, and I run across them today, while
searching for "facts"..
In a separate e-mail, sent to the az_vcj, just a while ago, was the
following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just read the article on azcentral titled "Forestry policy is hampered by
politics".
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0624fire-policy24.html
The most alarming statistic in that article was the fact that 40 percent of
the Forest Service's annual budget is spent defending itself against
environmental groups. That's astounding and absolutely absurd. Just think
of all the good that could be done with all that money that is wasted
because of frivolous lawsuits filed by the sierra club and other eco-nazis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interestingly enough the article hit upon some of the same facts, such as
the prescribed burn being stopped:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
forest officials said prescribed burns in the northern part of Hop Canyon,
southwest of Show Low, could have slowed the growth of the Rodeo fire.
But political wrangling prevented the burns because residents north of Hop
Canyon did not want smoke and ashes coming into their area, said Chaden
Palmer, a Forest Service spokesman.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A "fact" that I've not been able to verify, and I've been searching a lot
is:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
According to Sentator Kyl, up to 40% of the USFS budget has been spent in
defending lawsuits from the anti-recreationists.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll e-mail the Senator tomorrow and ask for references for the above. I
would tonight, but I don't have his e-mail address here at home. If anyone
sends it to me, I'll e-mail him tonight.
Another thing that's popped up, that's been of interest to me, is the
following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Under the National Fire Plan, passed in the wake of
> 2000's intense fire season, the Forest Service and
> other federal agencies were given over $2 billion
> to thin brush and small-diameter trees, with an emphasis
> on community protection. GAO research has concluded
> that the Forest Service could not account for how this
> money was being spent. In a January 2002 GAO report
> entitled "Severe Wildland Fires: Leadership and Accountability
> Needed to Reduce Risks to Communities and Resources,"
> it is stated:
>
> "Over a year after the Congress substantially increased
> funds to reduce hazardous fuels, the federal effort
> still lacks clearly defined and effective leadership
> . . .it is not possible to determine if the $796 million
> appropriated for hazardous fuels reduction in fiscal
> years 2001 and 2002 is targeted to the communities
> and other areas at highest risk of severe wildland
> fires."
~~~~~~~~~~
Millions of dollars have to allocated to the FS, earmarked strickly for
controlled burns and forest thinning and they appear to have been lost.
I'm in no way defending the Sierra Club and other "greenie groups" , but I'm
failing to find facts backing up some of the claims being made by others.
Most of which are appearing to be knee jerk reactions.
I'll stand in line to point a finger, or fingers at the people or
organizations that may be to blame. But, basically, so far, the only one
that I've finding, with references to back it up, is the FS mis-management
of the forest, basically but not burning more (controlled burns) and an
almost century old policy of putting out every fire, even in the remote
areas. They've also failed to thin (not by logging though) forest around
populated areas. Much of this has been driven by the timber industry, which
until the late 1980's and maybe early 1990's was a source of major income
for the FS. Much of this income basically stopped in the early 1990's when
the public got tired of their tax money going to fund the construction of
FSA roads for use by the timber companies, so they could get access to more
forest land, to log and sell for a profit.
Well, this is long enough. I'll continue searching and searching and
searching, for hard facts. This is something that I've choosen to do for
myself, for my own education, and it's just getting interesting.
Anyway, the fire is a great tragdy, with large property loss. The reasons
for the fire are many, not the least, is the fact that we have in the second
year of one of the worst droughts in history, with the moisture content of
living trees less than that of kiln dried timber !! As I mentioned in a
previous e-mail, my heart goes out to all those that have been directly
affected by this diaster. I've contributed what I felt I could, money wise,
and will continue to help in any way that I can and that I feel comfortable
with.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judith Raya" <jraya@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:32 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Greens Screaming Foul
> Good day from the PCCFMU,
> > The Center for Biological Diversity is wildly flailing about blaming
> > everyone including the state of Arizona for the fires in the White
> > Mountains. These people are so fanatical in their "love" of mother
> earth
> > that they will see her burn rather than admit to their mistakes and
> > allow responsible land and forest management to take place. It is my
> > belief that most of the leaders in the green groups are mentally ill
> and
> > in serious need of deprograming and therapy. Their "love" of the earth
>
> > is not love but an unhealthy obsession. What they essentially do is
> > stalk their earth love and anyone who may have divergent interests or
> > uses for it other than their own. Burning, terrorizing, intimidation,
> > obstruction and litigation are their means to "protect" her ( in
> their
> > sick minds) from those they state would rape and misuse her.
> > It is time to clearly draw the line between good land management
> > practices and science, and the druidic, earth worshiping fanaticism
> that
> > is being foisted upon the people of North America by the green
> > organizations across the country.
> > Sincerely,
> > Glynn Burkhardt
> >
> > Subject:
> > Arizona Fire Update
> > Date:
> > 24 Jun 2002 23:39:09 -0000
> > From:
> > "Center for Biological Diveristy"
> > <center@b...>
> > Reply-To:
> > notice-reply-i8gkwb4r78xmbm@a...
> > To:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > NEWS ADVISORY: Monday, June 24
> > CONTACT: Brian Segee, (520) 623-5252 x308
> > More Information:
> > http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
> >
> > STATE PRESSURED FOREST SERVICE TO HALT FUELS REDUCTION
> > PROJECT IN RODEO BURN AREA
> >
> > GOVERNOR HULL SCAPEGOATS ENVIRONMENTALISTS FOR LARGEST
> > FIRES IN ARIZONA HISTORY
> >
> > As Arizona faces its largest wildfire in history with
> > hundreds of homes destroyed and thousands of people
> > evacuated from their homes, Governor Jane Hull has
> > seized upon the tragedy to advance her own anti-environmental
> > agenda: On Sunday, June 23rd, Hull appeared on television
> > to blame environmentalists for the fire.
> >
> > The Governor predictably failed to explain how environmentalists
> > were to blame for the fires. Additionally, the Governor
> > failed to mention 1) that a prescribed fire set by
> > the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuel loads within
> > the burned area was stopped by state intervention,
> > 2) the vast majority of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> > Forests have been previously logged by the U.S. Forest
> > Service, 3) a recent report by the Government Accounting
> > Office (GAO) found that only 1% of Forest Service fuel
> > reduction projects were challenged with appeals or
> > lawsuits, and 4) a second recent report by the GAO
> > found that the Forest Service has misdirected funds
> > from its massive fuels reduction budget away from the
> > protection of rural communities threatened by fire.
> >
> >
> > The Los Angeles Times recently reported that a prescribed
> > fire set by the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuels
> > in what is now the Rodeo-Chediski fire was stopped
> > by unwarranted intervention by state agencies:
> >
> > "When controlled burns were set recently in the Apache
> > Sitgreaves National Forest, where the Rodeo fire now
> > rages, nearby residents complained to state air quality
> > officials about the smoke. The state pressured Forest
> > Service officials to extinguish the blazes prematurely,
> > Anderson (planner on the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> > Forest) said. "Other plans to start controlled burns
> > have been blocked by litigation, he said." (17 Blazes
> > Charring the West, Los Angeles Times, 6-23-02).
> >
> > The Governor's scapegoating of environmentalists is
> > fundamentally inaccurate. The Center for Biological
> > Diversity (CBD), Sierra Club, Southwest Forest Alliance
> > and other environmental organizations have long supported
> > the use of both prescribed fire and thinning of small-diameter
> > trees as the most effective methods to reduce fire
> > danger within Southwestern ponderosa pine forests.
> > Ironically, CBD sits on Governor's Forest Health/Fire
> > Plan Advisory Committee, a group appointed by Jane
> > Hull to advise governor on community protection and
> > forest restoration issues and to make recommendations
> > on where to spend National Fire Plan funds. We also
> > are on Senator Bingaman's (D-NM) Community Forest Restoration
> > Program Advisory Committee, which is charged with distribution
> > of $ 5 million annually to rural communities for forest
> > restoration and community protection.
> >
> > "The Governor is opportunistically and cynically using
> > this on-going tragedy to further an anti-environmental
> > agenda," stated Brian Segee with CBD. "Not only do
> > we strongly support community protection efforts such
> > as wildland-urban interface treatments, prescribed
> > burning and small-diameter thinning, we are deeply
> > involved in on-going collaborative and governmental
> > efforts to make such goals a reality."
> >
> > Independent studies conducted by the federal government
> > also directly contradict charges that environmental
> > organizations are preventing needed fuels reduction
> > projects from being completed. As stated in an August
> > 2001 report by the Government Accounting Office (GAO),
> > an independent investigative branch of Congress:
> >
> > "In summary, as of July 18, 2001, the Forest Service
> > has completed the necessary environmental analysis
> > and had decided to implement 1,671 hazardous fuel reduction
> > projects in fiscal year 2001. Of these projects, 20
> > (about 1 percent) had been appealed and none had been
> > litigated. Appellants included environmental groups,
> > recreation groups, private industry interests, and
> > individuals."
> >
> > Under the National Fire Plan, passed in the wake of
> > 2000's intense fire season, the Forest Service and
> > other federal agencies were given over $2 billion
> > to thin brush and small-diameter trees, with an emphasis
> > on community protection. GAO research has concluded
> > that the Forest Service could not account for how this
> > money was being spent. In a January 2002 GAO report
> > entitled "Severe Wildland Fires: Leadership and Accountability
> > Needed to Reduce Risks to Communities and Resources,"
> > it is stated:
> >
> > "Over a year after the Congress substantially increased
> > funds to reduce hazardous fuels, the federal effort
> > still lacks clearly defined and effective leadership
> > . . .it is not possible to determine if the $796 million
> > appropriated for hazardous fuels reduction in fiscal
> > years 2001 and 2002 is targeted to the communities
> > and other areas at highest risk of severe wildland
> > fires."
> >
> > Finally, forgotten in the Governor's continued and
> > escalating attack against environmentalists is the
> > fact that almost all of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
> > Forests where the two fires are burning has been intensively
> > logged. Almost no area along the relatively flat and
> > easily accessible Mogollon Rim has been spared from
> > logging.
> >
> > For more information,
> > http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
> >
> > (end)
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
57188 From: Halverson <byrnec@q...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:43pm
Subject: Re: Where to get Xylene??
Most any professional paint supply store will carry it. Sometimes in my work
we need xylene and that is were we go.
John Halverson
'99TJ
'51CJ3A
----- Original Message -----
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 3:48 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Where to get Xylene??
> Ok, I need some xylene as I am going to herc my tub, but I couldnt
> find it at Ace, home depot or Lowes. Where can I get it? Thanks;P
>
> Scott Maiden
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
57189 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:30pm
Subject: RE: Suspension Lift Questions
Chris,
This is a first I have ever heard of a lift with height differences from side to side. If I had to guess I'd think that you have installed a rear spring up front on one side. But hey that is just a guess, I am a YJ owner. I also think that is bull about the springs breaking in at different rates, what I should say is the fronts should wear relatively the same but they should sit even for a while after install. I say relatively because your engine will produce torque that will cause one side to squat more after a considerable amount of time. After which you will want to swap the two front springs.
You also may want to make sure your axel is centered under the Jeep. You should have a track bar relocator or a longer adjustable track bar. An uncentered axel may give the illusion of a tilted Jeep.
Just some thoughts
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher H. Dewey [mailto:cubs.fan@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 9:39 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Suspension Lift Questions
All,
I've really enjoyed the ride of the Old Man Emu lift on my '99 TJ, but I have noticed that my jeep is now an inch or so higher on the driver's side and it creaks when I start rolling.
I've been told that it's normal for springs to break in at different rates and that parking it for an hour or so with the high side up on some rocks would ensure that the springs break-in evenly (which apparently hasn't happened in the 3 months I've had the lift). Think that will work? How high will the rocks need to be?
Assuming tilt-o-parking isn't going to fix this, I've been told that using coil spacers of varying height could easily get me back to level again. How hard are these to install? Would I have to get a spring compressor, etc. or could these be slid in place without removing the springs? Can they be used in conjunction with coil spring isolators or additional spacers to level the Jeep?
On to the creaking problem. Before the Old Man Emu lift there were 1 3/4" spacers front and rear. I heard some noise when I let the clutch out, but a replacement of the rear u-joints seems to have fixed that. Right now I have very short isolators -- maybe 3/4" -- up front and nothing in the back from what I can see. Could having nothing in the back be causing the creaking I hear when I start moving forwards or backwards? If so, would a set of coil spring isolators or spacers for all four corners stop the creaking? Would I be able to put the old 1 3/4" spacers back in, or would shock travel force me to go with something really small like a set of 1/4" isolators? I currently have N66/N67 and OME933/OME942 springs and shocks.
Looking at the whole problem, would I be able to move the 3/4" isolator that's on the front driver's side to the rear passenger side -- along with the isolators -- to get a quiet and level ride?
Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris Dewey
cubs.fan@cox.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
57190 From: Michael Lake <xjcountry93@m...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 0:18am
Subject: Fw: Officials blame environmentalists for wildfires!
www.groups.yahoo.com/myprefs?edit=2
I have bean bouncing, my settings said soft bounce and had to change to normal. I notice no one has posted in a while, thought every one else may be doing the same.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Lake
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:38 PM
To: My-wheelin-rights; Jeepers Group
Subject: Officials blame environmentalists for wildfires!
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/24/wildfires.thinning.ap/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Gehrke, a forest expert with the Wilderness Society, said it is naive to think that cutting down trees will solve the fire problems.
"They're kidding themselves if they think they can control all the forces in the forest," he said. "In drought years, forests are going to burn."
He said taking out small trees leaves flammable material on the forest floor and can make it more prone to fire. The best solution, he said, is setting targeted fires during the early spring and late fall months to clear out excessive growth.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is out of the article. Burn the woods or thin them out?
Michael!
-------------------------------
He who dies with the most toys,
Still dies!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
57191 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:17am
Subject: RE: Suspension Lift Questions
Chris,
The ride height difference between driver and passenger side springs is very common on a lifted TJ and always (as you have experienced) the passenger side sits lower.
Having many friends who have experienced this (as well as experiencing this myself), I can tell you that there is an easy fix:
Get a terraflex adjustable rear track bar.
The primary reason that the right side sits lower is because your rear track bar is binding at the point where it attaches to the frame on the right (no surprise) side of your Jeep. When you get the terraflex adjustable rear track bar, you can adjust the bar so that the binding is minimized AND the bar is designed to minimize axial loading of the bar itself so that there is virtually no way for the bar to bind up.
Joe West
All,
I've really enjoyed the ride of the Old Man Emu lift on my '99 TJ, but I have noticed that my jeep is now an inch or so higher on the driver's side and it creaks when I start rolling.
I've been told that it's normal for springs to break in at different rates and that parking it for an hour or so w
57192 From: Theresa Kruize <theresakruize@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:27am
Subject: Fire Info
INCIDENT MANAGEMENT SITUATION REPORT
TUESDAY, JUNE 25, 2002 - 0530 MDT
NATIONAL PREPAREDNESS LEVEL 5
CURRENT SITUATION:
Initial attack activity was moderate in the Rocky
Mountain, Northern
California and Southwest Areas, and light elsewhere.
Nationally, 168
new
fires were reported. Three of these became large
fires, one each in the
Southern California, Southern and Southwest Areas. Two
large fires were
contained in the Southwest Area. Very high to extreme
fire indices were
reported in Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado,
Kansas, Nevada, New
Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.
SOUTHWEST AREA LARGE FIRES:
Priorities are being established by the Southwest
Multi-Agency
Coordinating Group based on information submitted via
Wildland Fire
Situation Analysis reports and Incident Status Summary
(ICS-209) forms.
An
Area Command Team (Ribar) is assigned to manage the
Rodeo and Chediski
fires.
RODEO, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Fort Apache Agency.
Two Type 1
Incident
Management Teams (Humphrey and Bateman) are assigned.
This wind and
fuel
driven fire is burning in ponderosa pine, juniper and
brush three miles
north of Cibecue, AZ. Extreme fire behavior was
observed. Crews are
burning out from Cottonwood Canyon to Highway 60. Show
Low, Pinedale,
Lakeside, Clay Springs, Pinetop, Hon Dah, Linden and
surrounding
populated
areas remain evacuated. Structure protection is in
place. Evacuation
centers are open in Winslow and Holbrook. Highway 260
and 277 are
closed.
Forty-five additional residences were lost.
CHEDISKI, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Fort Apache
Agency. A Type 1
Incident
Management Team (Dash) is assigned. An additional Type
1 Incident
Management Team (Martin) has been ordered. This wind
and fuel driven
fire,
burning in chaparral, ponderosa pine, juniper and
pinyon pine, is 12
miles
northwest of Cibecue, AZ. Steady southwest winds
resulted in active
fire
behavior, with crowning and long range spotting
observed during the
afternoon. Crews are constructing handline on the
south and west flanks
and engines are patrolling and mopping up. The Forest
Lakes subdivision
and the towns of Heber and Overgaard remain evacuated.
Structure
protection is in place. Fifteen additional residences
were lost.
ROYBAL/TRAMPAS, Santa Fe National Forest. The Roybal
fire is four miles
northeast of Pecos, NM and the Trampas fire is in the
Pecos Wilderness
Area, eight miles west of Rociada, NM. The fires are
burning in
ponderosa
pine and mixed conifer forest. No new information was
reported.
HIPPY, Bureau of Land Management, Yuma-Havasu Field
Office. This fire
is 1
mile south of Palo Verde, AZ and is burning in salt
cedar and
cottonwood.
Isolated flare-ups were observed. Favorable weather
conditions assisted
containment efforts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
INCIDENT |ST|UNIT| SIZE | % | EST
|TOTAL|CRW|ENG|HELI|STRC| $$$
NAME | | | |CTN| CTN |PERS | |
| |LOSS|C-T-D
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
RODEO |AZ| FTA|210000| 0| UNK| 1520| 39|
30| 11| 150| 4.0M
CHEDISKI |AZ| FTA|121340| 0| UNK| 708| 27|
23| 4| 140| 2.0M
ROYBAL/TRAMPAS |NM| SNF| 5655| 25| UNK| 652| 4|
12| 5| 0| 5.5M
HIPPY |AZ| YUD| 416| 99| UNK| 36| 1|
4| 0| 0| NR
COMMUNITY |AZ| CNF| 855|100| -| 96| 2|
4| 1| 0| 41K
ALAMEDA |NM| N3S| 300|100| -| 0| 0|
0| 0| 0| 62K
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CNF = Coronado National Forest
N3S = New Mexico State Forestry Office, Socorro
District
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
57193 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:14am
Subject: Re: [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
I saw an representative from the Sierra Club on TV last night. He
said, we are willing to let the FS cut down trees that are less than
9" in diameter. The FS spokesman's reply was, just cutting the trees
less than 9" diameter doesn't help the total plan.
From what I gathered, they (the FS and Sierra Club) have been
dickering back and forth and haven't come to an agreement so nothing
has been done about thinning.
There was no comments made one way or the other about controlled
burns, in this interview.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., FredTJ <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> Are we suggesting that some greenies aren't in favor of controlled
burns. They all seem to be, and they are in favor of letting remote
fires burn, and most in forest thinning. Note, though, that forest
thinning is not logging..
> I just taped a local news report with some "greenies" asking what's
happened to the millions and millions of dollars that have been
allocated to the FS for just those purposes. That is controlled burns
and manual thinning around occupied areas of the forest.
>
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
57194 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:00am
Subject: Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az fires????
Since this is one of those VERY easy runs, are you going to roll
again Sharky??
LOL
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., sharxjeep@c... wrote:
> That sounds like a great idea...they need all the help they can get
right now.
>
> Sharky
57195 From: David Withers <dwithers@a...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:18am
Subject: RE: Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az fires????
The ceo of the red cross lives in a million dollar mansion,,,,,, get a
clue.
-----Original Message-----
From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:07 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
fires????
Don't know what y'all are seeing on the news up in Phoenix, but here, in
Tucson, that are saying that they DON'T need food. They have more than
they know what to do with (food that is) at all of the shelters. They do
need pet supplies, and things like gloves, socks, lip balm, toliet
items, etc... Also, whoever said that they don't need cash, is jsut flat
wrong. The Red Cross was on the news, saying, YES they need and will
take money. They also didn't want a lot of people traveling around up
around the areas, as it's congested enough as it is. The Red Cross can
furnish the names and locations of drop off areas for supplies and
money.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: <sharxjeep@c...>
To: <gunslinger@i...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
fires????
> That sounds like a great idea...they need all the help they can get
> right
now.
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
57196 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:23am
Subject: Re: Suspension Lift Questions
Actually the OME springs are different lengths, side to side, and are marked; PS-> passenger side; DS -> driver side. Since the OME lift is made in Australia, the springs normally require swapping from side to side. Most people find that they only have to swap the rears, that is place the rear spring marked DS on the right side and the one marked PS on the left side. If that doesn't do it, then swap the fronts also.
I've owned an OME lift before, and I helped install it, after I sold it to a friend, in their Jeep, and just recently helped install another one. Try the rear spring swap.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe W
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Suspension Lift Questions
Chris,
The ride height difference between driver and passenger side springs is very common on a lifted TJ and always (as you have experienced) the passenger side sits lower.
Having many friends who have experienced this (as well as experiencing this myself), I can tell you that there is an easy fix:
Get a terraflex adjustable rear track bar.
The primary reason that the right side sits lower is because your rear track bar is binding at the point where it attaches to the frame on the right (no surprise) side of your Jeep. When you get the terraflex adjustable rear track bar, you can adjust the bar so that the binding is minimized AND the bar is designed to minimize axial loading of the bar itself so that there is virtually no way for the bar to bind up.
Joe West
All,
I've really enjoyed the ride of the Old Man Emu lift on my '99 TJ, but I have noticed that my jeep is now an inch or so higher on the driver's side and it creaks when I start rolling.
I've been told that it's normal for springs to break in at different rates and that parking it for an hour or so w
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
57197 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:36am
Subject: Re: Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az fires????
"The ceo of the red cross lives in a million dollar mansion"
So, maybe I do also.. Get a clue.
If he live in city housing would that mean anything different.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Withers" <dwithers@a...>
To: "'FredTJ'" <fredtj@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:18 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
fires????
> The ceo of the red cross lives in a million dollar mansion,,,,,, get a
> clue.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:07 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
> fires????
>
>
> Don't know what y'all are seeing on the news up in Phoenix, but here, in
> Tucson, that are saying that they DON'T need food. They have more than
> they know what to do with (food that is) at all of the shelters. They do
> need pet supplies, and things like gloves, socks, lip balm, toliet
> items, etc... Also, whoever said that they don't need cash, is jsut flat
> wrong. The Red Cross was on the news, saying, YES they need and will
> take money. They also didn't want a lot of people traveling around up
> around the areas, as it's congested enough as it is. The Red Cross can
> furnish the names and locations of drop off areas for supplies and
> money.
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sharxjeep@c...>
> To: <gunslinger@i...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
> fires????
>
>
> > That sounds like a great idea...they need all the help they can get
> > right
> now.
> >
> > Sharky
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
57198 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:44am
Subject: Re: Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az fires????
Whether anyone wants to donate money to the Red Cross, or not, is their
decision. I was simply correcting the mis-information from the original
poster who said that the Red Cross was not accepting money.
Mis-information is not what's needed
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Withers" <dwithers@a...>
To: "'FredTJ'" <fredtj@c...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:18 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
fires????
> The ceo of the red cross lives in a million dollar mansion,,,,,, get a
> clue.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:07 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
> fires????
>
>
> Don't know what y'all are seeing on the news up in Phoenix, but here, in
> Tucson, that are saying that they DON'T need food. They have more than
> they know what to do with (food that is) at all of the shelters. They do
> need pet supplies, and things like gloves, socks, lip balm, toliet
> items, etc... Also, whoever said that they don't need cash, is jsut flat
> wrong. The Red Cross was on the news, saying, YES they need and will
> take money. They also didn't want a lot of people traveling around up
> around the areas, as it's congested enough as it is. The Red Cross can
> furnish the names and locations of drop off areas for supplies and
> money.
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sharxjeep@c...>
> To: <gunslinger@i...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: azvjc club run to help those displaced by az
> fires????
>
>
> > That sounds like a great idea...they need all the help they can get
> > right
> now.
> >
> > Sharky
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
57199 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:54am
Subject: [FS] 1987 NISSAN PATHFINDER 4x4 FIRST $1900.00 FIRM
Price: $1900.00
Contact: 602-579-5132
1987 NISSAN PATHFINDER 4x4,6 cyl.,5 speed,COLD A/C,pw,pb,tilt,sun roof,(LOOKS &; RUNS GOOD),$1900.00 FIRM. CALL 602-579-5132
Bruce Boc
57200 From: sign_xpressions <sign_xpressions@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:54am
Subject: possible fire run decal?????
I was thinking of making a fire run decal...or somthing that
shows our support....with the profits going to the red cross or
someone...but i don't know if we would be interested in
something like this....this was what i came up with yesterday.
http://home.earthlink.net/~aduncanphotos/Images/Fire1.jpg
need some input...i don't want to make money off this this
fire...but was trying to find something i could do...i'am interested
in doing something to help out...if we need to take stuff up or
move some stuff around i have 6x12 atv trailer we could use..
-Andrew
57201 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:56am
Subject: Re: Re: [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
Regardiing the controlled burns, though I haven't had time to check
everything yet (it'll take a while), I'm not seeing resistance from any
particular "green" group against controlled burns. The only information that
I've found so far is "do controlled burns".. The couple that I've found that
have been stopped (controlled burns) were stopped by other people, not
"greenies".. The State stopped one (stepped in and stopped the FS for
starting it) in the general area of the current fire, because residents were
complaining about the possiblity of smoke, for instance.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 7:14 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [OT] Poll on AzCentral.com
>
> I saw an representative from the Sierra Club on TV last night. He
> said, we are willing to let the FS cut down trees that are less than
> 9" in diameter. The FS spokesman's reply was, just cutting the trees
> less than 9" diameter doesn't help the total plan.
>
> From what I gathered, they (the FS and Sierra Club) have been
> dickering back and forth and haven't come to an agreement so nothing
> has been done about thinning.
>
> There was no comments made one way or the other about controlled
> burns, in this interview.
>
> --James
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., FredTJ <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> > Are we suggesting that some greenies aren't in favor of controlled
> burns. They all seem to be, and they are in favor of letting remote
> fires burn, and most in forest thinning. Note, though, that forest
> thinning is not logging..
> > I just taped a local news report with some "greenies" asking what's
> happened to the millions and millions of dollars that have been
> allocated to the FS for just those purposes. That is controlled burns
> and manual thinning around occupied areas of the forest.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Fred
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>