are we not allowed to have an opinion now????

[AZLugz]

Or we get closed??

[Fire Ball]

Yuo can go over to the "New game: This or That " thread, useful dialog going on there :)

[SHNIPE]

you can have an opinion but whats the use of keeping the discussion open when the topic has been covered 239429034 tiems before and every time the majority agrees to NOT post the subject publicly?

[Miles2go1979]

start a poll... those things never get old... or die... or get locked... :D

[06GrnRubi]

Herein lies the problem of not being a formal club. Since we have no elected officials, those who have been here the longest, and/or have buddied up to those that have, make the rules. The rest of us, even though we may pay dues to help keep the site alive, have no say in how things are run. The site is not a democracy, it is governed by a few dictators.

Having said that, I don't really care. I come here so I can wheel with others without having to attend a minimum number of meetings, and other requirements that must be adhered to. I can go on the runs I want, and not feel like I have to go on others just to stay a member. Also, I think I'm making a statement to all of those formal clubs, saying: "I don't need you to enjoy recreational opportunities."

Whoever said the following, WWW.VIRTUALJEEPCLUB.COM DOES NOT ALLOW NOR WILL EVER ALLOW FOR GPS COORDINATES OR EXACT DIRECTIONS TO EXTREME TRAILS TO BE POSTED ON THE BOARD. THIS IS SOLELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TRAILS THEMSELVES. NOT YOU, is very rude. I mean, if the coordinates are posted elsewhere on the internet, what benefit (protection) is gained by not posting them here? Are we so nieve to think that if the greenies can't find them here, that they won't be able to find them somewhere else? Is it because the powers that be don't care about the rest of us? Is this the reason there have been so many groups that have spun off this site?

As I stated ealier, I am here to wheel, and am willing to live with the constraints that some of the old timers here have placed on us. Whatever decision is made, someo people will be unhappy. I'm not happy with this decision, but am willing to abide by it to obtain the benefits the group offers.

Now, let's move on.

[knockonit]

I'll bet those oldtimers found the trails without a gps info.
Ya think?

[SHNIPE]

I think for SHNIPE to say, and I quote, WWW.VIRTUALJEEPCLUB.COM DOES NOT ALLOW NOR WILL EVER ALLOW FOR GPS COORDINATES OR EXACT DIRECTIONS TO EXTREME TRAILS TO BE POSTED ON THE BOARD. THIS IS SOLELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TRAILS THEMSELVES. NOT YOU, is very rude.

That "quote" was from a moderator on THIS site. (http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showpost.php?p=233253&postcount=19) misquoting is rude. the question of whether or not they CAN find the info on our trails elsewhere was also covered by me saying that we shouldnt make it any easier for them. Breadcrumbs can be followed if they work hard enough. Handing them the key is dumb.

[SHNIPE]

oh and the mod is a AZOHV rep and also a tread lightly trainer so he knows the full extent of why we need to keep the trails hidden. he knows how the greenies and the state works first hand. wise advice from a credible source.

[SHNIPE]

OH and for what its worth: This topic arose out of the need for people to have access to the trails if or when there is an emergency call coming from a specific trail. I DO think Yjunks idea about updating the emergency contact list with which trails that person is familiar with so that they could either be contacted or asked to lead/assist. that way we could group the particular wheeling areas into zones and create some sort of "Special Response Team" for each area/trail set.

[Tom Schenk]

Or we get closed??

You can have your opinion. Just don't go get butt-hurt when it doesn't stick. Not posting trail locations is not a matter of opinion. Its a matter of keeping the trails open. If you want to know where the trails are I suggest singing up here (http://virtualjeepclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=66).

[AZLugz]

Actually not "Butt hurt" at all, just thought it BS that two threads were closed with no questions. As for trail rides, I am on the trails quite often with my groups. I don't post them up because they are Christian groups ad most people have made it know they don't want that stuff here so I try to keep it somewhat low except for my avatar and sig. Not affraid of who or what I am, just don't feel it is right to force it on others

[SHNIPE]

lots of groups hold private runs and functions but that doesnt mean you cant hold off on your normal ways to learn new trails with other groups. IF you want to knwo where a trail is. post up for a leader and a date.

[wannabejeeper]

Good thing I don't have GPS, or I might have something to say, course I don't wheel either.:D

[1BLKJP]

Whoever said the following, WWW.VIRTUALJEEPCLUB.COM DOES NOT ALLOW NOR WILL EVER ALLOW FOR GPS COORDINATES OR EXACT DIRECTIONS TO EXTREME TRAILS TO BE POSTED ON THE BOARD. THIS IS SOLELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TRAILS THEMSELVES. NOT YOU, is very rude. I mean, if the coordinates are posted elsewhere on the internet, what benefit (protection) is gained by not posting them here? Are we so nieve to think that if the greenies can't find them here, that they won't be able to find them somewhere else? Is it because the powers that be don't care about the rest of us? Is this the reason there have been so many groups that have spun off this site?

I said it and I will stand by it. For those of you who think us in the "Old Guard" are ruining your board then take it up with Joe. Call me the incarnate of the sheriff I don't care. But you all have touched on a very volatile subject with me today and i'm not backing down on it one bit. Once you've spent the time, money, and energy that I have on working to save your trails you might just understand what I'm talking about. Kind of wants to make me just F off what we are trying to build for you all out in FJ and just let the landfill company do what they want.

So if you saw there was going to be a mass raping of a teenager on a flier would you just post it up here because you figure what the hell they'll see it somewhere else anyway? I highly doubt it. Because there is just some things that you don't want your name being associated with right? Well that's how I feel about this club and posting of directions to trails. While I have a say in the matter I'm not going to let the VJC's name be associated with the destruction of the trail systems as we know it. I already go out and run trails like DS and CD and recognize that as they've become more popular there have been rigs in there that have no business being in there.

The groups that splinter off of this one are ones of like minded individuals (Except Lance, he's in every club :D) that want a less public setting to conduct their runs and business. Is there something wrong with that? There are still members of every club in this state that sign on to this board everyday. I'm a member of a splinter club, yet I'm still on this board and as a moderator. Hmmmmm, guess that throws your theory out.

Whether or not those threads got closed this morning was not my call. I said my piece in there and then hadn't been on since then. I will say that there has been a shift in the methodolgy of closing threads on this board lately. You Lugz even have the ability to close this thread since you started it. There just comes a time when something is no longer providing a valid form of either entertainment or content and needs to no longer be furthered.

[AZLugz]

Agreed on that point

[1BLKJP]

I'll bet those oldtimers found the trails without a gps info.
Ya think?

Oh, and we do find all of the trails without GPS. Because we go with people who have been on or know where they are. :D