blooddrive
01-05-2004, 07:09 PM
56202-56226
56202 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 1:13am
Subject: Re: Quiet without Bill
Just got back from the super secret cage building location.....
Damn, it's tougher than people who know what they're doing make it look!!
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: <sharxjeep@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:48 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Quiet without Bill
> Geeze...it sure is quiet with out Bill babbling on...where are you Bill?
Its
> lonely with out you :) hahaha
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
56203 From: Michael Lake <xjcountry93@m...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 1:11am
Subject: Received 266 bulk e-mail today
Michael!
-------------------------------
He who dies with the most toys,
Still dies!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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56204 From: Timothy W. Tuttle <tim@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:32am
Subject: RE: Digest Number 2339
Regarding your problem with the gear install. I am a lawyer (CA).
It won't be cost effective for you to contact a lawyer on this, but
you have a very strong case for small claims court. His 90 day warranty
won't
matter. In every purchase of a product, there is an "implied warranty
of fitness", i.e., there is an implied warranty that the product will work
as it is intended. Make certain that you have one or two strong letters
from
reputable gear people to support your position. It would be even better
if they could show up in court personally but that might become too
expensive. Make sure that they state their qualifications in the letters.
Once you get the judgment, it shouldn't be that difficult to collect. It's
not that sizeable. If he's been around for a long time, he'll probably have
the ability to pay.
This is blatant. I wouldn't let him get away with it.
Tim Tuttle
-----Original Message-----
From: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:23 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Digest Number 2339
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Quiet without Bill
From: sharxjeep@c...
2. RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
3. Re: gas gauge
From: "Craig Micek" <micekc@e...>
4. D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
From: "mini_dv1" <mini_dv1@y...>
5. Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "flexyxj" <flexyxj98@m...>
6. Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
7. Needed! Straight T-case skid foy YJ
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
8. RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>
9. RE: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
10. OT: A free smile (for the sick among us)
From: "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...>
11. RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
12. Re: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
13. Re: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
From: "Jay Eller" <jay@t...>
14. Re: Digest Number 2338
From: "Leonard K. Pennock" <leonardpennock@c...>
15. Re: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
From: "mini_dv1" <mini_dv1@y...>
16. Re: OT: A free smile (for the sick among us)
From: "CoyotEddie" <coyoteddie@e...>
17. Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...>
18. Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
19. vehicle type required to be a member.
From: "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...>
20. Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
21. RE: vehicle type required to be a member.
From: "DesertJeep" <joey@d...>
22. Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
23. RE: D44 off Waggoner for CJ
From: "Robert Holmes" <robert@c...>
24. Re: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
25. m422a1 membership
From: "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...>
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:48:16 EDT
From: sharxjeep@c...
Subject: Quiet without Bill
Geeze...it sure is quiet with out Bill babbling on...where are you Bill?
Its
lonely with out you :) hahaha
Sharky
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:04:18 -0700
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
Subject: RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Rick,
Sorry to hear of your situation with Al. I've used Al before and found
just the opposite to be true. He went out of his way to pull a few
strings for some R&P pricing for me, grabbed me a new carrier for about
half of what I had found them for, charged me $200 in labor for the axle
rebuild, and painted it while had it. He came highly recommended to me
by a close friend who has used Al for the past 19+ years (and still
does). In hind sight, it was certainly was unfortunate that you did not
contact him when you started having problems right after the work was
done. :-(
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Norman [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:31 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install
problem
13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was
done by Al Baker, a retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business
out of his garage in Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab
shop I have used many times.
Immediately after the gear swap, I started having
problems, mostly in the front end/transfer case. The first thing I
noticed was that I had to back the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was
like the front end was just binding up. Then I started getting some
popping coming from the front end while in 4wd. It was only about a
month ago that I found one of the carrier bearings had been spinning on
the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I have had a cracked
transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front driveshaft u-joints,
and probably a couple other things I haven't thought of. My latest
breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end
and guess what we found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A
quick check verified that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right.
The wrong gears were installed up front. I guess that explains why I
couldn't drive in 4wd on the slickrock of Moab.
I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say
the least. He wont acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong
gears in the first place. He says he always checks the ratio. I said
apparently not. He then stated that his install was warrantied for 90
days, and that because its been over a year, he won't touch it. I told
him that I should be reimbursed for at least the cost of his front end
install (approximately $575) and he replied that it wasnt his problem.
First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for
any Jeep or 4wd repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a
crappy businessman to boot.
Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on
how I should proceed. I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the
AZVJC and it's many members would be made aware of how he handled this
situation. I then told him that I would be contacting a lawyer about
reimbursement.
What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
Thanks
Rick
XTRM XJ
Rick
4x4xFUN
It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
[This message contained attachments]
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:20:04 -0700
From: "Craig Micek" <micekc@e...>
Subject: Re: gas gauge
I had a similar problem with an old toyota. The gage wouldn't go below 3/8
of a tank. It had something to do with all the dents in the tank from
romping through the desert. <grin> The tank only held about 9 gallons.
When I first got it it held about 14!
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] gas gauge
> Mine never drops below .25 tank any longer. I have been filling up by
> odometer for several years now.
>
> --Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Towle [mailto:James.Towle@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:20 AM
> To: AZ_VJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] gas gauge
>
>
> So there I was cruising down the 101 thinking I am either getting good gas
> mileage or my gas gauge is broke and all the sudden the Jeep started
> sputtering. Oh ****... I pulled off the 101, ran a red light to take the
> right hand turn and there were no gas station on that exit. I coasted (ha,
> ha) down a couple of blocks and came to a stop on a side road. Luckily
there
> was a older gentleman out front of his house. I noticed he had a nice lawn
> and asked, if he happened to have any gas for his lawn mower I could buy
> from him. He had a gallon and a half, I gave him $3, poured it in and was
on
> may way to the gas station.
> After filling up at the station the gas gauge went up. So I am thinking
the
> gauge/float was stuck or it decided to become less accurate on the
opposite
> side than is was inaccurate before. Only time will tell.
>
> I can't remember the last time I ran out of gas, it was at least 7 years
> ago. But, now I remember why I have been filling up with a 1/4 tank left.
> Don't trust those dang gauges.
>
> --James
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:15:25 -0000
From: "mini_dv1" <mini_dv1@y...>
Subject: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
hello folks,
sometime back i asked the question regarding full size vs cut axels.
I just finaly got my axels (200.00 for the pair) and i noticed that
the wagoneers had all=time four wheel drive. Does anybody know how
this will affect my vehicle? i have manual locking hubs now. And just
wondering what kind of things i should look out for concenring my
transfer case driving it in overdrive goign to be ok?
...shhhh i wish i could make sense
:D
brendan
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:30:38 -0000
From: "flexyxj" <flexyxj98@m...>
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Rick....I do tend to agree with the fact that you might just be
SOL.... No I also believe that for someone "who has 18 years" of
experiance of setting up gears, they should know the difference
between 41/11 gears and 41/9 gears....however its quite evident this
is not true...I believe that ANYONE in such standing as Al Baker
would at VERY LEAST be reasonable and just give you the cost of gears
and install back....now I know this does not include the price if the
carrier, or install kit, but I said reasonable, and I would do that
for you if I had made such a STUPID, INCOMPETENT mistake....but for
him to tall you "its not my problem" well that is just complete
BULL****. I have been setting gears for almost 10 years in all
applications from drag racing to road racing all the way to off-
roading..... I can honestly say that I have NEVER made that
mistake....(not saying that I MIGHT) BUT if I had I would make good
on it and eat some pride...but than again, by not having a conceeded
attitude that I would never make that mistake, (like Al's) then we
would not know.....
Ok, I will get off the soap box right now...It just irritates me when
people cant stand up and take responsibility for their own
actions.....
FlexyXJ
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:39:09 -0000
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Well put Joe.
Scott Maiden
--- In az_vjc@y..., "flexyxj" <flexyxj98@m...> wrote:
> Rick....I do tend to agree with the fact that you might just be
> SOL.... No I also believe that for someone "who has 18 years" of
> experiance of setting up gears, they should know the difference
> between 41/11 gears and 41/9 gears....however its quite evident
this
> is not true...I believe that ANYONE in such standing as Al Baker
> would at VERY LEAST be reasonable and just give you the cost of
gears
> and install back....now I know this does not include the price if
the
> carrier, or install kit, but I said reasonable, and I would do that
> for you if I had made such a STUPID, INCOMPETENT mistake....but for
> him to tall you "its not my problem" well that is just complete
> BULL****. I have been setting gears for almost 10 years in all
> applications from drag racing to road racing all the way to off-
> roading..... I can honestly say that I have NEVER made that
> mistake....(not saying that I MIGHT) BUT if I had I would make good
> on it and eat some pride...but than again, by not having a
conceeded
> attitude that I would never make that mistake, (like Al's) then we
> would not know.....
> Ok, I will get off the soap box right now...It just irritates me
when
> people cant stand up and take responsibility for their own
> actions.....
>
>
> FlexyXJ
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:43:18 -0000
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
Subject: Needed! Straight T-case skid foy YJ
Anyone have one I can hAve for cheap? Or just borrow? Mine is bent to
$&IT and I am going to make my own, just need a straight template to
make it from BTW its a 6 cyl 5speed, one from same is prefereed, but
any will do.
Thanks,
Scott Maiden
93 YJ
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:56:05 -0700
From: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>
Subject: RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
RE: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install problemStu, Al was
contacted after I started having problems. I had found a couple broken
springs inside my case from my No-Slip. When he installed the gears, he
broke a locker spring but obtained a replacement. I called him to find out
if it was a used set of springs he installed. They were, if I remember
correctly. At the time, I mentioned that I was having problems getting it
out of 4wd. He offered no explanation as to why this was happening.
As to the rest of the problems I was having, I felt was due to the fact that
I wheel my XJ real hard, and as you know, what we do is very hard on parts.
Never did it occur to me that these problems stemmed for a bad install or
even a mismatched set of gears.
Everybody keep your posts coming as I appreciate all your thoughts.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:04 PM
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Rick,
Sorry to hear of your situation with Al. I’ve used Al before and found
just the opposite to be true. He went out of his way to pull a few strings
for some R&P pricing for me, grabbed me a new carrier for about half of what
I had found them for, charged me $200 in labor for the axle rebuild, and
painted it while had it. He came highly recommended to me by a close friend
who has used Al for the past 19+ years (and still does). In hind sight, it
was certainly was unfortunate that you did not contact him when you started
having problems right after the work was done. L
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Norman [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:31 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install problem
13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al Baker,
a retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out of his garage in
Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab shop I have used many
times.
Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly in
the front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was that I had to
back the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like the front end was just
binding up. Then I started getting some popping coming from the front end
while in 4wd. It was only about a month ago that I found one of the carrier
bearings had been spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I
have had a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front
driveshaft u-joints, and probably a couple other things I haven't thought
of. My latest breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess what
we found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick check verified
that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right. The wrong gears were
installed up front. I guess that explains why I couldn't drive in 4wd on the
slickrock of Moab.
I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the least. He
wont acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong gears in the first
place. He says he always checks the ratio. I said apparently not. He then
stated that his install was warrantied for 90 days, and that because its
been over a year, he won't touch it. I told him that I should be reimbursed
for at least the cost of his front end install (approximately $575) and he
replied that it wasnt his problem.
First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep or
4wd repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a crappy businessman
to boot.
Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
proceed. I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's
many members would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then
told him that I would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
Thanks
Rick
XTRM XJ
Rick
4x4xFUN
It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[This message contained attachments]
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:06:08 -0700
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
Subject: RE: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
Brendan,
I think you are talking about the drive plates in the hubs. Just remove
them and slap in some Warn or Superwinch manual hubs.
--Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: mini_dv1 [mailto:mini_dv1@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:15 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
hello folks,
sometime back i asked the question regarding full size vs cut axels.
I just finaly got my axels (200.00 for the pair) and i noticed that
the wagoneers had all=time four wheel drive. Does anybody know how
this will affect my vehicle? i have manual locking hubs now. And just
wondering what kind of things i should look out for concenring my
transfer case driving it in overdrive goign to be ok?
...shhhh i wish i could make sense
:D
brendan
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:11:34 -0700
From: "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...>
Subject: OT: A free smile (for the sick among us)
This.
Just.
Cracks.
Me.
Up.
http://www.nobodyhere.com/justme/nose.html
Joe West
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
Subject: RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Rick,
I have known Al for many years and have found him to be an honest person and
good friend. I am sorry about the current situation and hope you two can
come up with a fair solution.
I don't believe Al will be affected by bashing his name, his reputation
goes way beyond the small boundaries of the AZVJC. I also don't know if an
attorney would be worth the fees, especially if he only had a 90 day
warranty.
However with what you are describing, it sure sounds like that was the
problem. Hind sight is 20/20 but seeing Al or another shop early on would
have made it easier.
If there is anything I can do to help, call me at 602-273-7195.
Barry
Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote: Stu, Al was contacted after I
started having problems. I had found a couple broken springs inside my case
from my No-Slip. When he installed the gears, he broke a locker spring but
obtained a replacement. I called him to find out if it was a used set of
springs he installed. They were, if I remember correctly. At the time, I
mentioned that I was having problems getting it out of 4wd. He offered no
explanation as to why this was happening. As to the rest nbsphe problems I
was having, I felt was due to the fact that I wheel my XJ real hard, and as
you know, what we do is very hard on parts. Never did it occur to me that
these problems stemmed for a bad install or even a mismatched set of gears.
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
Subject: Re: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
To call someone conceded at not knowing them at all is pretty bold, unless
you were there when the conversation took place. Just an observation.
bermboy2000 <bermboy@h...> wrote: Well put Joe.
Scott Maiden
--- In az_vjc@y..., "flexyxj" wrote:
> Rick....I do tend to agree with the fact that you might just be
> SOL.... No I also believe that for someone "who has 18 years" of
> experiance of setting up gears, they should know the difference
> between 41/11 gears and 41/9 gears....however its quite evident
this
> is not true...I believe that ANYONE in such standing as Al Baker
> would at VERY LEAST be reasonable and just give you the cost of
gears
> and install back....now I know this does not include the price if
the
> carrier, or install kit, but I said reasonable, and I would do that
> for you if I had made such a STUPID, INCOMPETENT mistake....but for
> him to tall you "its not my problem" well that is just complete
> BULL****. I have been setting gears for almost 10 years in all
> applications from drag racing to road racing all the way to off-
> roading..... I can honestly say that I have NEVER made that
> mistake....(not saying that I MIGHT) BUT if I had I would make good
> on it and eat some pride...but than again, by not having a
conceeded
> attitude that I would never make that mistake, (like Al's) then we
> would not know.....
> Ok, I will get off the soap box right now...It just irritates me
when
> people cant stand up and take responsibility for their own
> actions.....
>
>
> FlexyXJ
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:53:34 -0500
From: "Jay Eller" <jay@t...>
Subject: Re: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
Shouldn't be a problem. But is the rear pumpkin offset to one side now???
This might be a problem. I believe most of the all-wheel-drive Waggy's had
a t-case that had a rear output to one side rather than straight out the
back. I could be wrong, but I believe this to be the case. If this true
with what you got, it may make for an interesting drive line angle. If it
isn't true, then just ignore me!! ;-)
----------------------------
Jay Eller
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:26:49 -0700
From: "Leonard K. Pennock" <leonardpennock@c...>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2338
I would contact a lawyer on this. First of all the orginal work was not
performed as ordered. If you have the orginial work order that states
4.56 were to be installed and the statement from the servicing mechianic
the 3.73 were in place you have a good case for recovering not only the
cost of the orginial labor but all repairs that were caused by the
incorrect installation.
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
>
> Message: 22 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:41:56 -0700 From: "David
> Withers" <dwithers@a...> Subject: RE: Help/advice needed
> with gear install problem
>
> Even if you win your small claims court case, that doesn't mean
> you'll get your money back. He'll just have a judgment on his
> credit.
>
>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Rick Norman
>> [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:31 PM To:
>> AZ_VJC Subject: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install
>> problem
>>
>>
>>
>> 13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al
>> Baker, a retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out
>> of his garage in Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local
>> fab shop I have used many times.
>>
>> Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly
>> in the front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was
>> that I had to back the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like
>> the front end was just binding up. Then I started getting some
>> popping coming from the front end while in 4wd. It was only about
>> a month ago that I found one of the carrier bearings had been
>> spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I have
>> had a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front
>> driveshaft u-joints, and probably a couple other things I
>> haven't thought of. My latest breakage was a broken tooth on the
>> front pinion.
>>
>> Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess
>> what we found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick
>> check verified that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats
>> right. The wrong gears were installed up front. I guess that
>> explains why I couldn't drive in 4wd on the slickrock of Moab.
>>
>> I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the
>> least. He wont acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong
>> gears in the first place. He says he always checks the ratio. I
>> said apparently not. He then stated that his install was
>> warrantied for 90 days, and that because its been over a year, he
>> won't touch it. I told him that I should be reimbursed for at
>> least the cost of his front end install (approximately $575) and
>> he replied that it wasnt his problem.
>>
>> First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep
>> or 4wd repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a
>> crappy businessman to boot.
>>
>> Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
proceed. I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's
>>many members would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then
>>told him that I would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
>>
>>What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Rick
>>XTRM XJ
>>
>>Rick
>>4x4xFUN
>>It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
>>http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
>>
>>
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 04:40:57 -0000
From: "mini_dv1" <mini_dv1@y...>
Subject: Re: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
yes i have the spicer t-case with the offset pumpkin setup. :D
thats is why i chose the earlier 70's model j-truck or wagoneer
axels .
thanks
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Jay Eller" <jay@t...> wrote:
> Shouldn't be a problem. But is the rear pumpkin offset to one side
now???
> This might be a problem. I believe most of the all-wheel-drive
Waggy's had
> a t-case that had a rear output to one side rather than straight
out the
> back. I could be wrong, but I believe this to be the case. If
this true
> with what you got, it may make for an interesting drive line
angle. If it
> isn't true, then just ignore me!! ;-)
> ----------------------------
> Jay Eller
> http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:40:35 -0700
From: "CoyotEddie" <coyoteddie@e...>
Subject: Re: OT: A free smile (for the sick among us)
LMAO
This.
Just.
Cracks.
Me.
Up.
http://www.nobodyhere.com/justme/nose.html
Joe West
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 04:56:39 -0000
From: "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...>
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Barry,
My friend, once again someone under estimates the power of AzVJC and
of advertising, beit good or bad. I am not siding with anyone in this
statement regarding Rick's situation so don't get me wrong. AzVJC has
been discounted in MANY instances and the funny thing is we always
prove the nay sayer incorrect. Officailly unorganized we are,
organized as a group we also are.
If the guy screwed up he should make it good. If people like Barry
and Stu really know this guy Al then they should help pressure him
until he makes it good. That is what this group should be about and
most of the time we are.
We go to Land Use meetings because someone is screwing up or trying
to screw us up. The other "organized groups" don't do this. When one
of our members gets screwed we need to stand up and be heard, just
like the land use meetings. If you aren't up for the standing maybe,
just maybe, we need to go find another group. One where you can sit
back on your laurels and let people, including greenies, do whatever
they want.
Rick, I am sorry to hear about what happened. I remember you having
problems with your rig on runs we went on. When Big-O sold bme the
incorrect rims and I found out a year later after they had rock rash
on them they made it good and gave me new rims. I would hope that
this guy, Al, would at least make good on what you were supposed to
get. As far as what was damaged, I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were
you.
If I can help you out please let me know.
--James
PS - Barry, no one is "bashing his name", they are just advertising
for his service or lack there of. The content in the advertising is
up to him, just like any vendor we/AzVJC deal(s) with.
--- In az_vjc@y..., barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...> wrote:
>
> Rick,
> I have known Al for many years and have found him to be an honest
person and good friend. I am sorry about the current situation and
hope you two can come up with a fair solution.
> I don't believe Al will be affected by bashing his name, his
reputation goes way beyond the small boundaries of the AZVJC. I also
don't know if an attorney would be worth the fees, especially if he
only had a 90 day warranty.
> However with what you are describing, it sure sounds like that was
the problem. Hind sight is 20/20 but seeing Al or another shop early
on would have made it easier.
> If there is anything I can do to help, call me at 602-273-7195.
> Barry
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 18
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:17:40 -0700
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Wow! Sorry to hear about this! I don't know Al Baker or how qualified he
is, but apparently he isn't interested in keeping customers or getting
new ones. It really doesn't matter if he has friends or satisified
customers. Mess with an AZVJCer -- that's enough for me to boycott a
business for a long long time! Thanks for the warning. Do you know if he
is running a legitmate business? Does the business have a name? Email
address?
Linda
Rick Norman wrote:
>
> 13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al Baker, a
> retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out of his garage in
> Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab shop I have used many
> times.
>
> Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly in the
> front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was that I had to back
> the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like the front end was just
binding
> up. Then I started getting some popping coming from the front end while in
> 4wd. It was only about a month ago that I found one of the carrier
bearings
> had been spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I have
had
> a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front driveshaft
> u-joints, and probably a couple other things I haven't thought of. My
> latest breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
>
> Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess what we
> found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick check verified
> that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right. The wrong gears were
> installed up front. I guess that explains why I couldn't drive in 4wd on
the
> slickrock of Moab.
>
> I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the least. He
wont
> acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong gears in the first place.
> He says he always checks the ratio. I said apparently not. He then stated
> that his install was warrantied for 90 days, and that because its been
over
> a year, he won't touch it. I told him that I should be reimbursed for at
> least the cost of his front end install (approximately $575) and he
replied
> that it wasnt his problem.
>
> First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep or 4wd
> repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a crappy businessman
to
> boot.
>
> Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
proceed.
> I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's many
members
> would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then told him that
I
> would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
>
> What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
>
> Rick
> 4x4xFUN
> It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
> http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Name: winmail.dat
> winmail.dat Type: Netscape File (application/ms-tnef)
> Encoding: base64
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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 05:23:30 -0000
From: "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...>
Subject: vehicle type required to be a member.
I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE 1967.
DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT
TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. THANKS
LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 20
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:30:42 -0700
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Subject: Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
Way cool! Welcome!
Linda
dirtworks13 wrote:
>
> I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE 1967.
> DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
> MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
> JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT
> TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. THANKS
> LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:36:22 -0700
From: "DesertJeep" <joey@d...>
Subject: RE: vehicle type required to be a member.
Larry,
Your in! Welcome to the conglomeration!! Got any pictures to share of
your M422A1??
Joey K
93YJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dirtworks13 [mailto:autoprocollision@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:24 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] vehicle type required to be a member.
>
>
> I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE
> 1967. DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
> MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
> JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT
> TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. THANKS
> LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:33:12 -0700
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Subject: Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
I should say I the last time I saw one of those was at the Military
Vehicle Preservationists show last year. How do you keep something like
that running? Are there still parts available?
Linda
dirtworks13 wrote:
>
> I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE 1967.
> DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
> MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
> JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT
> TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. THANKS
> LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:49:56 -0700
From: "Robert Holmes" <robert@c...>
Subject: RE: D44 off Waggoner for CJ
Almost all of them have offset axels, this is not because of the driveline
coming out of one side or the other, but on the older ones the factory
assumed the gas tank would get in the way of the driveline.
We are currently going to swap a set of 44's into our scrambler, the offset
pumpkin will make it interesting, but I doubt there will be a problem
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Eller [mailto:jay@t...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:54 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
Shouldn't be a problem. But is the rear pumpkin offset to one side now???
This might be a problem. I believe most of the all-wheel-drive Waggy's had
a t-case that had a rear output to one side rather than straight out the
back. I could be wrong, but I believe this to be the case. If this true
with what you got, it may make for an interesting drive line angle. If it
isn't true, then just ignore me!! ;-)
----------------------------
Jay Eller
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 24
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:13:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
Subject: Re: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
James, I don't under estimate the power of the anyone. Remember I am a
member of this group as well as two other 4 wheel drive clubs. I will,
however, not pressure a friend on how to run or conduct his business. If I
had all the information on this matter, not just one side be it right or
wrong I still would not be compelled to to jump into this situation, I feel
that it is between consumer and customer. If the AzVJC jumps on a band
wagon and boycott Al then let it be so. His reputation and business among
the many wheelers that know him will not be hindered and that would include
myself.
I do hope that Al and Rick come to an positive solution to this matter.
---------------------------------
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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 06:23:05 -0000
From: "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...>
Subject: m422a1 membership
hay, that was easy but doesn,t someone with power need to bless this
union ? pictures are coming but first some repairs after the "mighty
mite" fell two feet from the vehicle lift it was on . sheet metal
only and after all this is a body shop. as for how i keep it going ,
well lots of mods. such as a v6 buick swap for the origional air-
cooled 4 banger, blazer frt. hubs and chev. van steering box along
with custom frt. steering linkage. so far no running gear problems.
very little rust as most of it is aluminum. my mods. have added a
1000# so far and i weigh in at 2700 #. i didn,t makeup the
name "mighty mite" either. american motors named it. i call it the
polish cadillac
larry
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56205 From: flatfenderman2000 <cnd4ever@g...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:17am
Subject: 2 Free CJ Grill's...
If anyone needs a grill I have two, just come get'em. One is out of a
77 CJ5 and should fit any 76 to 86 CJ 5 or 7. It's in OK shape, no
head light buckets or parking lights. It will need a little welding
on the radiator support. The second grill is out of an early CJ5 and
is in exellent shape and has all lights and bezels still in it. It
wont fit later model CJ's unless you modify the radiator suport. If
your looking for a retro look, this one is for you....
FYI, these grills are in Florence. Just drop me an e-mail and there
yours. I should be home this evening if you want to come get them.
Chris Lewis
56206 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:19am
Subject: RE: Re: K&N filter upgrade
Scott,
I noticed a difference when I installed the snorkel and put the K&N on top
of it... you were thinking about moving your air intake to the cowl vent
area... are you still going to do that?
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:46 PM
> To: 'robert_j_rogers2'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: K&N filter upgrade
>
>
> I recently went back to the stock airbox after running a K&N
> cone filter
> off the airtube for the last 3 years. I was amazed at how much more
> power I have when the temperatures are high. I need to fab up
> some kind
56207 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:27am
Subject: RE: Re: K&N filter upgrade
I have a K&N, somewhat like the one in the pic. Mine
goes off to the front/side. Is a snorkel better for
gas mileage? If so, is it very involved/expensive to
install?
--- Joe W <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> Scott,
>
> I noticed a difference when I installed the snorkel
> and put the K&N on top
> of it... you were thinking about moving your air
> intake to the cowl vent
> area... are you still going to do that?
>
>
> Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Kruize
> [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:46 PM
> > To: 'robert_j_rogers2'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: K&N filter upgrade
> >
> >
> > I recently went back to the stock airbox after
> running a K&N
> > cone filter
> > off the airtube for the last 3 years. I was amazed
> at how much more
> > power I have when the temperatures are high. I
> need to fab up
> > some kind
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
S. Jayke Thorpe
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56208 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:47am
Subject: Re: Re: dual batteries
Michael:
You're right. I meant Ford type solenoid. And it is. You can't tell them apart by looking at them. The point was made however. Proven technology and resonable pricing.
Gary Holmes
Michael Wixom wrote:
I did not think you could use an actual ford ignition solenoid, I tried it in my Chevy pick up and it would work for a few days then burn out, I bought one at Isleys RV parts that was rated for continuous duty and it lasted for years. The ford starter solenoids will not hold up to continuous energizing as in charging dual batteries. I now have a painless wiring dual battery set-up in my CJ that is kind of cool it allows switching between batteries for different situations. It cost considerably less than 200.00.
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Holmes
To: sthomas@architekton.com
Cc:parajeeper ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteries
Scott:
If you don't subscribe to the isolator setup for dual batteries then it is very simple and inexpensive to utilize a Ford starter solenoid to charge/connect the two batteries together and control when you want to do it. It has been done for years (centuries?) with motor homes and works great. but if someone wants to spend $185-$200 to do it I'll be glad to take their money and set them up. If you look at that set up closely you will see that that is all it is with a ridicules price tag.
Gary Holmes
Scott Thomas wrote:
You still have to buy the dual battery solenoid set up which I believe isaround $185-$200.Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: parajeeper [mailto:pwhhl@yahoo.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:04 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteriesCan't you just mount it in the rear cargo area behind the seat on acustom tray with long cables running to the other battery? Cheaperthan $500--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" wrote:
get us some pictures-----Original Message-----From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:49 PMTo: Mark Mesalam; David Withers; sthomas@a...;az_vjc@y...Subject: Re: [az_vjc] dual batteriesNever say never ;)I've seen a writeups from a couple of people, who have done it
easily.
Use Optima batteries, as they can be mounted in any position. They
both
used two Optimas (full sized ones), and mounted them on their sides
in
the same location as the stock battery. They fit without much of aproblem. Cheers, Fred----- Original Message -----From: Mark Mesalam To: David Withers ;sthomas@a... ; az_vjc@y...Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:36 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesThere isn't room. There is A/C stuff in the way.-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:54 PMTo: sthomas@a...; az_vjc@y...Subject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesI thought there wasn't room to run dual optimas in a TJ with A/C?-----Original Message-----From: Scott Thomas [mailto:sthomas@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:48 PMTo: David WithersSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesDoes having A/C really make that big of a difference on your
electrical
power supply? I can see that having a winch and 15 KC lights make
that
kind of a difference, but A/C. It runs off of your fan belt any
ways.
Just wondering why and if this makes a difference.Thanks,Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:31 PMTo: sthomas@a...; az_vjc@y...Subject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesthis is with A/C-----Original Message-----From: Scott Thomas [mailto:sthomas@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:10 PMTo: David WithersSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesHey David, I'm not sure if you are just informing people or if you are
buying
this dual battery system. None the less I have seen set up that arecheaper and you choose the batteries that you are going to run, so
you
can run two Optima batteries. If you want more information let me
know
and I'll see if I can dig up the information.Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:06 PMTo: az_vjc@y...Subject: [az_vjc] dual batteriesDual Battery System - Jeep TJ<http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-
bin/merchant2/graphics/00000001/34-96
5-1.jpg>Quantity in Basket: noneCode: WNW34-965-1Price: $499.95Shipping Weight: 25.00 poundsQuantity:Dual battery system for '97 - '02 Jeep Wrangler (TJ). Works with orwithout a/c! The system uses two small deep-cycle Odyssey batteries,providing 925cca each. Kit includes all wiring, tray, two
batteries, and
in-cab switch.http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD
<http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD
&Store_Code=4x4RS&Product_Code=WNW34-965-1&Category_Code=Batteries>&Store_Code=4x4RS&Product_Code=WNW34-965-1&Category_Code=BatteriesDavid R. W. WithersDesk: 480.551.4667Mobile: 480.215.6992Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
56209 From: kmichael02 <kmichael02@y...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:49am
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
People make mistakes, althought I don't directly know either party
involved, I am on here frequently looking for advice, help and so
forth regarding various things. My jeep is my only transportation
and I rely on the experiences of many of the faceless members of this
club, as to whom to talk to and whom to see to have major wrenching
done. I feel if you paid for a specific service and got something
other than what you paid for(hopefully it was written down),
regardless of the time frame(reasonably time frame at best), then you
are due some degree of retribution or compensation or help.
I don't know the installer of the gears but it seems to me there is
no since trying to difuse a bomb after it has gone off. Too me, at
this point, it would seem that the installer now has to "ligitimately
answer" for how 3.73's got in the front and 4.56's in the rear. It's
no longer a question of right or wrong. Time frame is somewhat
irrelavant because the driver of the jeep is no gear expert and
wouldn't know that all the issues were from running different sets of
gears. So It's now a question of main't the "great image" you all
project on this installer. You all say he is a great mechanic,
individual, etc etc etc. Well, if that is the case I believe he
should step to the plate and say hey, "I guess I did screw up." That
makes him more solid in my book. Someone who doesnt' take
responsibility for their mistakes, even if it happens only once, is,
IMO lacking character. Especially when the situation is one of "an
expert(installer) and non expert relationship. I beleive as a
business owner, and resident expert(he certainly was dispensing
guidance and opinion) he has a duty to treat a customer with the
respect they deserve. He spent a lot of money and had issues for a
year due to this "mix up." Again this is one opinion, I know
neither party.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
>
>
> 13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al
Baker, a
> retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out of his
garage in
> Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab shop I have
used many
> times.
>
> Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly
in the
> front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was that I had
to back
> the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like the front end was
just binding
> up. Then I started getting some popping coming from the front end
while in
> 4wd. It was only about a month ago that I found one of the carrier
bearings
> had been spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I
have had
> a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front
driveshaft
> u-joints, and probably a couple other things I haven't thought of.
My
> latest breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
>
> Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess
what we
> found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick check
verified
> that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right. The wrong gears
were
> installed up front. I guess that explains why I couldn't drive in
4wd on the
> slickrock of Moab.
>
> I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the least.
He wont
> acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong gears in the first
place.
> He says he always checks the ratio. I said apparently not. He then
stated
> that his install was warrantied for 90 days, and that because its
been over
> a year, he won't touch it. I told him that I should be reimbursed
for at
> least the cost of his front end install (approximately $575) and he
replied
> that it wasnt his problem.
>
> First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep
or 4wd
> repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a crappy
businessman to
> boot.
>
> Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
proceed.
> I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's
many members
> would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then told
him that I
> would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
>
> What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
>
> Rick
> 4x4xFUN
> It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
> http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
56210 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:51am
Subject: RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
I have been do gear installs for 20 years and this is the first time I have
heard of someone doing this. It should have been very obvious during the
test drive that the transfer case was binding and there something was wrong
in the front end.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Norman [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:31 PM
> To: AZ_VJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install problem
>
>
>
> 13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al Baker, a
> retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out of his garage in
> Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab shop I have used many
> times.
>
> Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly in the
> front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was that I had to back
> the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like the front end was just
> binding up. Then I started getting some popping coming from the front end
> while in 4wd. It was only about a month ago that I found one of the
> carrier bearings had been spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior
> to that, I have had a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced
> 4 front driveshaft u-joints, and probably a couple other things I haven't
> thought of. My latest breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
>
> Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess what we
> found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick check verified
> that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right. The wrong gears were
> installed up front. I guess that explains why I couldn't drive in 4wd on
> the slickrock of Moab.
>
> I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the least. He
> wont acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong gears in the first
> place. He says he always checks the ratio. I said apparently not. He then
> stated that his install was warrantied for 90 days, and that because its
> been over a year, he won't touch it. I told him that I should be
> reimbursed for at least the cost of his front end install (approximately
> $575) and he replied that it wasnt his problem.
>
> First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep or 4wd
> repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a crappy businessman
> to boot.
>
> Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
> proceed. I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's
> many members would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then
> told him that I would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
>
> What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
>
> Rick
> 4x4xFUN
> It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
> http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
56211 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:15am
Subject: Cooling a 350 (revisited)
I had to share this with the group. I've been fighting a cooling
problem in my Jeep in the summers ever since I did the Chevy350 swap in
to it. For those that don't know, I have a CJ7 with Chevy 350, turbo350
combo. I finally have it to where I no longer worry about cooling
issues any more, even in 110F heat and in traffic. Here is what I did
and the results:
1) Stock CJ7 7 blade fan with thermal fan clutch
2) 4 core radiator from Mepco (not their 3 core high efficiency one).
3) Custom made fan shroud with 1" plenum and 1/2 covering the depth of
the fan fins.
4) 160F high flow thermostat
5) Stock water pump
6) 70% water, 30% coolant
7) 4.56 gears
8) 38" tires
I find, when the outside air temp is 105F or so, it runs 175 down the
freeway turning 2,800 rpm. When slowing to idle and in stop and go
traffic, it runs no more than 180F. So if anyone is considering this
swap, this is what I have done to solve my cooling problems. And it
works!
Just FYI to those that may be having issues with this.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
56212 From: Scott Thomas <sthomas@a...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:53am
Subject: RE: Re: dual batteries
Mike the painless wiring set-up is the one that I was thinking of. Not really sure of the exact price, but I do remember it being less than the set-up that David e-mailed out.
Scott Thomas
97' Tj
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Wixom [mailto:h8pvmnt@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:33 PM
To: sthomas@architekton.com; Gary Holmes
Cc: parajeeper; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteries
I did not think you could use an actual ford ignition solenoid, I tried it in my Chevy pick up and it would work for a few days then burn out, I bought one at Isleys RV parts that was rated for continuous duty and it lasted for years. The ford starter solenoids will not hold up to continuous energizing as in charging dual batteries. I now have a painless wiring dual battery set-up in my CJ that is kind of cool it allows switching between batteries for different situations. It cost considerably less than 200.00.
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Holmes
To: sthomas@architekton.com
Cc: parajeeper ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteries
Scott:
If you don't subscribe to the isolator setup for dual batteries then it is very simple and inexpensive to utilize a Ford starter solenoid to charge/connect the two batteries together and control when you want to do it. It has been done for years (centuries?) with motor homes and works great. but if someone wants to spend $185-$200 to do it I'll be glad to take their money and set them up. If you look at that set up closely you will see that that is all it is with a ridicules price tag.
Gary Holmes
Scott Thomas wrote:
You still have to buy the dual battery solenoid set up which I believe isaround $185-$200.Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: parajeeper [mailto:pwhhl@yahoo.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:04 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteriesCan't you just mount it in the rear cargo area behind the seat on acustom tray with long cables running to the other battery? Cheaperthan $500--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" wrote:
get us some pictures-----Original Message-----From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:49 PMTo: Mark Mesalam; David Withers; sthomas@a...;az_vjc@y...Subject: Re: [az_vjc] dual batteriesNever say never ;)I've seen a writeups from a couple of people, who have done it
easily.
Use Optima batteries, as they can be mounted in any position. They
both
used two Optimas (full sized ones), and mounted them on their sides
in
the same location as the stock battery. They fit without much of aproblem. Cheers, Fred----- Original Message -----From: Mark Mesalam To: David Withers ;sthomas@a... ; az_vjc@y...Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:36 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesThere isn't room. There is A/C stuff in the way.-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:54 PMTo: sthomas@a...; az_vjc@y...Subject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesI thought there wasn't room to run dual optimas in a TJ with A/C?-----Original Message-----From: Scott Thomas [mailto:sthomas@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:48 PMTo: David WithersSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesDoes having A/C really make that big of a difference on your
electrical
power supply? I can see that having a winch and 15 KC lights make
that
kind of a difference, but A/C. It runs off of your fan belt any
ways.
Just wondering why and if this makes a difference.Thanks,Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:31 PMTo: sthomas@a...; az_vjc@y...Subject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesthis is with A/C-----Original Message-----From: Scott Thomas [mailto:sthomas@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:10 PMTo: David WithersSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesHey David, I'm not sure if you are just informing people or if you are
buying
this dual battery system. None the less I have seen set up that arecheaper and you choose the batteries that you are going to run, so
you
can run two Optima batteries. If you want more information let me
know
and I'll see if I can dig up the information.Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:06 PMTo: az_vjc@y...Subject: [az_vjc] dual batteriesDual Battery System - Jeep TJ<http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-
bin/merchant2/graphics/00000001/34-96
5-1.jpg>Quantity in Basket: noneCode: WNW34-965-1Price: $499.95Shipping Weight: 25.00 poundsQuantity:Dual battery system for '97 - '02 Jeep Wrangler (TJ). Works with orwithout a/c! The system uses two small deep-cycle Odyssey batteries,providing 925cca each. Kit includes all wiring, tray, two
batteries, and
in-cab switch.http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD
<http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD
&Store_Code=4x4RS&Product_Code=WNW34-965-1&Category_Code=Batteries>&Store_Code=4x4RS&Product_Code=WNW34-965-1&Category_Code=BatteriesDavid R. W. WithersDesk: 480.551.4667Mobile: 480.215.6992Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
56213 From: Jason B <the_anubis@h...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:55am
Subject: Torx Tools
Does anybody know all the torx sizes needed to work on a jeep?
I have tons of tools but never had a need for torx....till now :)
and whats the best brand, I have used some cheep ones, and, of course they
broke.....
Thanx All.....
-Jason
92 YJ
__________________________________________________ _______________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
56214 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:29am
Subject: Re: Torx Tools
Beleive it or not, the best Torx bits I have found are the Ace Brand at Ace Hardware. They sell a complete set (complete enough to have all the sizes you will find on a jeep from CJ to ZJ) for like 20 bucks. Ace brand seems to me the best quality. I have never had one strip on me. And beleive me, I have had to use them ALOT over the years. And in some cases, under sever condotions.
I tired once buying a nice set, (supposedly high American quality) from a well known tool shop here in town, I tore them up in one hour, and returned them with 2 bloody knuckles. Got my money back and went to Ace to buy another "cheap" set. (I had lost too many of the original set)
Hope that helps.
John K
56215 From: Matt Bolton <a_waxx5@y...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:37am
Subject: Re: D44 off Waggoner for CJ
The Quadratrac(sp.) transfer case does use passenger
side offset for the rear output, while this may not be
the universal explanation for the offset Dana 44, it
is true in some cases. (ie. CJ's w/q-trac and an
offset model 20)
As far as converting the front from fulltime to part
time,
pop the cap off, remove the snap ring, slide out the
big "gear", the spring behind it, and spring
washer/spacer (may be covered in grease back by the
bearing).
To install the hub of your choice, (between $50 and
$80 for the pair depending on manufacture)
Slide the new locking "gear" in, install new snap
ring, bolt the front of the new locking hub up, and
you’re done.
I just swapped un-cut, offset D-44 in to a CJ w/ a
spicer -18 , if you have any questions, or want to see
it, I'll try to help.
Matt
'46 2A
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
56216 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:50am
Subject: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Think again...
The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ makes (on
purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever noticed that
your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center position, even when you
stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for this is that the
"center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so that the needle
position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the center range, yet
travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high range.
The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at by looking at the
gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge (normal operating
range). If the pointer travels outside the normal range, it will
automatically peg at the high end and the check engine light will go on.
Here's what I measured...
nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my new gauges...
driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my temperature moved
about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I then installed
the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the nominal idle
temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached normal
operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the place from 200
degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle will go up 5
degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10 to 15 degrees
and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let everyone know that
the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to overheating and you
will never know it until it is too late and the factory gauge pegs to the
hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an idiot light with two
positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the temperature
settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume because your gauge
doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay. For those of you with
modifications similar to mine (winch and lights blocking the grille) you may
have to move to a better radiator to ensure adequate cooling. Do not depend
on the factory gauge to detect temperature trends... keep in mind that it is
about as accurate as an idiot light.
Joe West
Joe West
Synopsys Applications Consultant
2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
Tempe, Arizona 85282
Office: (480) 921-3732
Cell: (602) 524-7632
Fax: (480) 921-8883
56217 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:53am
Subject: RE: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Joe,
Have you verified the accuracy of your VDO readings by using a secondary
probe near the thermostat housing?
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:50 AM
To: Azvjc (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge
is linear and somewhat accurate...
Think again...
The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ makes (on
purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever noticed that
your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center position, even when
you stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for this is
that the "center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so that
the needle position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the
center range, yet travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high
range. The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at by
looking at the gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge
(normal operating range). If the pointer travels outside the normal
range, it will automatically peg at the high end and the check engine
light will go on.
Here's what I measured...
nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my new gauges...
driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my temperature
moved about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I then
installed the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the
nominal idle temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached
normal operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the place
from 200 degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle will
go up 5 degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10 to
15 degrees and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let everyone know
that the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to overheating and
you will never know it until it is too late and the factory gauge pegs
to the hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an idiot
light with two positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the
temperature settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume
because your gauge doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay.
For those of you with modifications similar to mine (winch and lights
blocking the grille) you may have to move to a better radiator to ensure
adequate cooling. Do not depend on the factory gauge to detect
temperature trends... keep in mind that it is about as accurate as an
idiot light.
Joe West
Joe West
Synopsys Applications Consultant
2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
Tempe, Arizona 85282
Office: (480) 921-3732
Cell: (602) 524-7632
Fax: (480) 921-8883
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
56218 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:01am
Subject: Re: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Same for the battery. It is, literally, nothing more than an idiot light,
displaying low or high and turning on the <check engine> light at either end
of that. They're basically only three positions that the thing displays,
sort of middle, low and high. Actually all the guages in the instrument
cluster are like that. The computer controls all the displays, at what it
thinks should be shown.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
To: "Azvjc (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:50 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is
linear and somewhat accurate...
> Think again...
>
> The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ makes (on
> purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever noticed that
> your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center position, even when
you
> stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for this is that the
> "center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so that the needle
> position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the center range,
yet
> travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high range.
> The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at by looking at
the
> gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge (normal operating
> range). If the pointer travels outside the normal range, it will
> automatically peg at the high end and the check engine light will go on.
>
> Here's what I measured...
>
> nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
> nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
>
> I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my new gauges...
> driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my temperature moved
> about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I then installed
> the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the nominal idle
> temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
>
> While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached
normal
> operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the place from 200
> degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle will go up 5
> degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10 to 15 degrees
> and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
>
> What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let everyone know that
> the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
> temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to overheating and
you
> will never know it until it is too late and the factory gauge pegs to the
> hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an idiot light with
two
> positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the temperature
> settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume because your gauge
> doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay. For those of you with
> modifications similar to mine (winch and lights blocking the grille) you
may
> have to move to a better radiator to ensure adequate cooling. Do not
depend
> on the factory gauge to detect temperature trends... keep in mind that it
is
> about as accurate as an idiot light.
>
> Joe West
>
>
>
>
> Joe West
> Synopsys Applications Consultant
> 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> Tempe, Arizona 85282
>
> Office: (480) 921-3732
> Cell: (602) 524-7632
> Fax: (480) 921-8883
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
56219 From: ricklog502002 <rlogan@d...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:04am
Subject: new jeeper comming to town
I am already of member of this club but I live in Flagstaff. I am
moving to Gilbert and looking forward to the lunches and other things
this club does my jeep is in the gallery under richard logan
56220 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:11am
Subject: Rocky Point 6/21
The family and I have decided to go down to Rocky Point a week from
tomorrow, for the weekend. I was wondering if someone else would be down
there, from the group, or if anyone else wanted to go. We will be dragging
the TJ behind the truck and staying at a hotel. If you want the number for
our hotel I can get it, I don't have it off hand.
I am kind of excited because this will be the first time I have had the Jeep
in the sand since getting my lockers, tires and gears. Plus, I actually get
to put the Jeep in four wheel drive, lol (I didn't think I would get to do
that this summer). I had better get a shovel, now that I think about it.
Let me know.
--James
56221 From: az_jml <JML2112@h...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:06am
Subject: 74 cj5
hello my name is Jeff i have a 74 cj5 and i would like to put a t-18
4 speed in it. i have a t-15 in it now. does anyone have any advice
on this swap. it also has a dana 20 transfer case dana 44 rear and
dana 30 front with a 304 pushing it all around.looking for any advice
i can get.dont have a t-18 trans yet so if anyone has one laying
around or knows someone who does please call or email me.
sincerely,
cel 480-330-9527 Jeff
email JML2112@h...
56222 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:17am
Subject: RE: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Hi Fred,
The computer controls every gauge except the oil pressure gauge (I think, I
don't have the schematic in front of me but I seem to remember that the oil
pressure is not filtered). I have not quantified the other gauges yet...
but I believe you to be correct that all of the gauges are nothing more than
idiot lights with pointers on them.
The computer controls the display range and linearity of the gauges AND,
when it detects something is wrong, it pegs the gauges to either min or max
value depending on the failure condition and then turns on the check engine
light.
I remember the first time I had this happen with my voltage gauge on my
TJ... I looked at the gauges and went OH MY GOD!!! My voltage is at 19
VOLTS!!!! After I figured out that the computer pushes the gauge to the
maximum value (what idiot thought of this?) or minimum value depending on
the failure... I wasn't so worried. I guess the engineers at DC don't think
that the average Jeep driver can figure out what the problem is by looking
at the actual readings... they figure it must be easier just to push the
gauge to the max or min value so that we can't miss the problem... what
idiots! If I'm running hot, I want to know HOW HOT and not just the fact
that it is TOO HOT.
Here's a summary of what you get with the factory gauges:
Speed, accurate
Tach, accurate
Voltage, nominal, high, low
Temperature, relatively accurate low to nominal, high
Oil pressure, not computer controlled, accurate to cheap gauge limitations.
Fuel, not accurate ever... what a joke.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:02 AM
> To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature
> gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
>
>
> Same for the battery. It is, literally, nothing more than an
> idiot light,
> displaying low or high and turning on the <check engine>
> light at either end
> of that. They're basically only three positions that the
> thing displays,
> sort of middle, low and high. Actually all the guages in the
> instrument
> cluster are like that. The computer controls all the
> displays, at what it
> thinks should be shown.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
> To: "Azvjc (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:50 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ
> temperature gauge is
> linear and somewhat accurate...
>
>
> > Think again...
> >
> > The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ
> makes (on
> > purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever
> noticed that
> > your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center
> position, even when
> you
> > stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for
> this is that the
> > "center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so
> that the needle
> > position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the
> center range,
> yet
> > travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high range.
> > The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at
> by looking at
> the
> > gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge
> (normal operating
> > range). If the pointer travels outside the normal range, it will
> > automatically peg at the high end and the check engine
> light will go on.
> >
> > Here's what I measured...
> >
> > nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
> > nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
> >
> > I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my
> new gauges...
> > driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my
> temperature moved
> > about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I
> then installed
> > the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the nominal idle
> > temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
> >
> > While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached
> normal
> > operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the
> place from 200
> > degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle
> will go up 5
> > degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10
> to 15 degrees
> > and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
> >
> > What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let
> everyone know that
> > the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
> > temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to
> overheating and
> you
> > will never know it until it is too late and the factory
> gauge pegs to the
> > hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an
> idiot light with
> two
> > positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the temperature
> > settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume
> because your gauge
> > doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay. For
> those of you with
> > modifications similar to mine (winch and lights blocking
> the grille) you
> may
> > have to move to a better radiator to ensure adequate cooling. Do not
> depend
> > on the factory gauge to detect temperature trends... keep
> in mind that it
> is
> > about as accurate as an idiot light.
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe West
> > Synopsys Applications Consultant
> > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> >
> > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
56223 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:27am
Subject: Re: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Joe, you got me curious about the oil pressure gauge now ;) I'll check the
FSM tonight when I get home. I first found out about the gauges being
nothing more than idiot lights when I got my winch and respooled it. After a
few seconds the charge "gauge" dropped to the low end (6 volts, I think, I
haven't actually looked at it in a while) and the check engine light came
on. I pulled out the FSM and that's when I learned that the computer pegs it
one side or the other and turns on the check engine light, depending out
what it thinks is wrong, battery in my case.. I remember thinking "what a
joke, if they are going to do this, they might as well simply use idiot
light, it's certainly cheaper ;)
:)
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
To: "'Azvjc (E-mail)'" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge
is linear and somewhat accurate...
> Hi Fred,
>
> The computer controls every gauge except the oil pressure gauge (I think,
I
> don't have the schematic in front of me but I seem to remember that the
oil
> pressure is not filtered). I have not quantified the other gauges yet...
> but I believe you to be correct that all of the gauges are nothing more
than
> idiot lights with pointers on them.
>
> The computer controls the display range and linearity of the gauges AND,
> when it detects something is wrong, it pegs the gauges to either min or
max
> value depending on the failure condition and then turns on the check
engine
> light.
>
> I remember the first time I had this happen with my voltage gauge on my
> TJ... I looked at the gauges and went OH MY GOD!!! My voltage is at 19
> VOLTS!!!! After I figured out that the computer pushes the gauge to the
> maximum value (what idiot thought of this?) or minimum value depending on
> the failure... I wasn't so worried. I guess the engineers at DC don't
think
> that the average Jeep driver can figure out what the problem is by looking
> at the actual readings... they figure it must be easier just to push the
> gauge to the max or min value so that we can't miss the problem... what
> idiots! If I'm running hot, I want to know HOW HOT and not just the fact
> that it is TOO HOT.
>
> Here's a summary of what you get with the factory gauges:
>
> Speed, accurate
> Tach, accurate
> Voltage, nominal, high, low
> Temperature, relatively accurate low to nominal, high
> Oil pressure, not computer controlled, accurate to cheap gauge
limitations.
> Fuel, not accurate ever... what a joke.
>
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:02 AM
> > To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature
> > gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
> >
> >
> > Same for the battery. It is, literally, nothing more than an
> > idiot light,
> > displaying low or high and turning on the <check engine>
> > light at either end
> > of that. They're basically only three positions that the
> > thing displays,
> > sort of middle, low and high. Actually all the guages in the
> > instrument
> > cluster are like that. The computer controls all the
> > displays, at what it
> > thinks should be shown.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
> > To: "Azvjc (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:50 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ
> > temperature gauge is
> > linear and somewhat accurate...
> >
> >
> > > Think again...
> > >
> > > The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ
> > makes (on
> > > purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever
> > noticed that
> > > your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center
> > position, even when
> > you
> > > stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for
> > this is that the
> > > "center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so
> > that the needle
> > > position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the
> > center range,
> > yet
> > > travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high range.
> > > The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at
> > by looking at
> > the
> > > gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge
> > (normal operating
> > > range). If the pointer travels outside the normal range, it will
> > > automatically peg at the high end and the check engine
> > light will go on.
> > >
> > > Here's what I measured...
> > >
> > > nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
> > > nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
> > >
> > > I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my
> > new gauges...
> > > driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my
> > temperature moved
> > > about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I
> > then installed
> > > the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the nominal idle
> > > temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
> > >
> > > While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached
> > normal
> > > operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the
> > place from 200
> > > degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle
> > will go up 5
> > > degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10
> > to 15 degrees
> > > and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
> > >
> > > What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let
> > everyone know that
> > > the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
> > > temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to
> > overheating and
> > you
> > > will never know it until it is too late and the factory
> > gauge pegs to the
> > > hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an
> > idiot light with
> > two
> > > positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the temperature
> > > settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume
> > because your gauge
> > > doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay. For
> > those of you with
> > > modifications similar to mine (winch and lights blocking
> > the grille) you
> > may
> > > have to move to a better radiator to ensure adequate cooling. Do not
> > depend
> > > on the factory gauge to detect temperature trends... keep
> > in mind that it
> > is
> > > about as accurate as an idiot light.
> > >
> > > Joe West
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe West
> > > Synopsys Applications Consultant
> > > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > >
> > > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
56224 From: my1stjeep <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:33am
Subject: Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
Only one I know of can pack his in the back of a full size Truck,
that would be Sharky... actually did you mean before or after a
roll? LOL
Chris
"AzA"----------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@y..., "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...> wrote:
> I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE 1967.
> DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
> MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
> JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE
BUT
> TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER.
THANKS
> LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
56225 From: Jesus Chio - Alloffroad.com <jchio@a...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:37am
Subject: RE: Cooling a 350 (revisited)
Jay where is the sending unit of your water temp gauge???
I have a crate 350, mild roller cam, quadrajet, 30 miles on the engine,
Chevy 6 blade fan with clutch, 160 thermostat, 2 core griffin aluminum
radiator.
the temp outside reached up to 110, 1st gear on the sm420 and low on the
atlas, pedal to the floor an temp would go slightly over 210.
Crusing at 50 mph temp stays between 200 and 210....
Im not sure if its because the fuel temp sending unit is right on the block,
between the hedders and that adds some temp. I have a 14 lb radiator cap
and the overflow bottle never goes over the half level.
Water temp gauge is an autometer ultralite electric if that matters....
50% water, 50% prestone II
thanks in advance!
Jesus Chio
Home account
Chief Editor : www.alloffroad.com
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
CC: AzVJC <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
Fecha: Jueves, 13 de Junio de 2002 09:23 a.m.
Asunto: [az_vjc] Cooling a 350 (revisited)
>I had to share this with the group. I've been fighting a cooling
>problem in my Jeep in the summers ever since I did the Chevy350 swap in
>to it. For those that don't know, I have a CJ7 with Chevy 350, turbo350
>combo. I finally have it to where I no longer worry about cooling
>issues any more, even in 110F heat and in traffic. Here is what I did
>and the results:
>
>1) Stock CJ7 7 blade fan with thermal fan clutch
>2) 4 core radiator from Mepco (not their 3 core high efficiency one).
>3) Custom made fan shroud with 1" plenum and 1/2 covering the depth of
>the fan fins.
>4) 160F high flow thermostat
>5) Stock water pump
>6) 70% water, 30% coolant
>7) 4.56 gears
>8) 38" tires
>
>I find, when the outside air temp is 105F or so, it runs 175 down the
>freeway turning 2,800 rpm. When slowing to idle and in stop and go
>traffic, it runs no more than 180F. So if anyone is considering this
>swap, this is what I have done to solve my cooling problems. And it
>works!
>
>Just FYI to those that may be having issues with this.
>
>--
>----------------------------
>Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
>http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
56226 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:00am
Subject: K&N vs. Paper
All this talk about K&N filters brings up a question. I have a '98 XJ that
I need to put a new filter in, and was wondering if the K&N really produces
some of the implied benefits (more H.P and better mileage), or am I better
off just sticking with the paper filter? I'm talking about the drop in
filter, not an air tube with cone filter.
TIA
Ben Hill
Grape Ape XJ
http://www.bensjeep.homestead.com
56202 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 1:13am
Subject: Re: Quiet without Bill
Just got back from the super secret cage building location.....
Damn, it's tougher than people who know what they're doing make it look!!
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
----- Original Message -----
From: <sharxjeep@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:48 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Quiet without Bill
> Geeze...it sure is quiet with out Bill babbling on...where are you Bill?
Its
> lonely with out you :) hahaha
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
56203 From: Michael Lake <xjcountry93@m...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 1:11am
Subject: Received 266 bulk e-mail today
Michael!
-------------------------------
He who dies with the most toys,
Still dies!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
56204 From: Timothy W. Tuttle <tim@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:32am
Subject: RE: Digest Number 2339
Regarding your problem with the gear install. I am a lawyer (CA).
It won't be cost effective for you to contact a lawyer on this, but
you have a very strong case for small claims court. His 90 day warranty
won't
matter. In every purchase of a product, there is an "implied warranty
of fitness", i.e., there is an implied warranty that the product will work
as it is intended. Make certain that you have one or two strong letters
from
reputable gear people to support your position. It would be even better
if they could show up in court personally but that might become too
expensive. Make sure that they state their qualifications in the letters.
Once you get the judgment, it shouldn't be that difficult to collect. It's
not that sizeable. If he's been around for a long time, he'll probably have
the ability to pay.
This is blatant. I wouldn't let him get away with it.
Tim Tuttle
-----Original Message-----
From: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:23 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Digest Number 2339
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Quiet without Bill
From: sharxjeep@c...
2. RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
3. Re: gas gauge
From: "Craig Micek" <micekc@e...>
4. D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
From: "mini_dv1" <mini_dv1@y...>
5. Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "flexyxj" <flexyxj98@m...>
6. Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
7. Needed! Straight T-case skid foy YJ
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
8. RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>
9. RE: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
10. OT: A free smile (for the sick among us)
From: "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...>
11. RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
12. Re: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
13. Re: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
From: "Jay Eller" <jay@t...>
14. Re: Digest Number 2338
From: "Leonard K. Pennock" <leonardpennock@c...>
15. Re: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
From: "mini_dv1" <mini_dv1@y...>
16. Re: OT: A free smile (for the sick among us)
From: "CoyotEddie" <coyoteddie@e...>
17. Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...>
18. Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
19. vehicle type required to be a member.
From: "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...>
20. Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
21. RE: vehicle type required to be a member.
From: "DesertJeep" <joey@d...>
22. Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
23. RE: D44 off Waggoner for CJ
From: "Robert Holmes" <robert@c...>
24. Re: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
25. m422a1 membership
From: "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...>
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:48:16 EDT
From: sharxjeep@c...
Subject: Quiet without Bill
Geeze...it sure is quiet with out Bill babbling on...where are you Bill?
Its
lonely with out you :) hahaha
Sharky
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:04:18 -0700
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
Subject: RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Rick,
Sorry to hear of your situation with Al. I've used Al before and found
just the opposite to be true. He went out of his way to pull a few
strings for some R&P pricing for me, grabbed me a new carrier for about
half of what I had found them for, charged me $200 in labor for the axle
rebuild, and painted it while had it. He came highly recommended to me
by a close friend who has used Al for the past 19+ years (and still
does). In hind sight, it was certainly was unfortunate that you did not
contact him when you started having problems right after the work was
done. :-(
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Norman [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:31 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install
problem
13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was
done by Al Baker, a retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business
out of his garage in Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab
shop I have used many times.
Immediately after the gear swap, I started having
problems, mostly in the front end/transfer case. The first thing I
noticed was that I had to back the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was
like the front end was just binding up. Then I started getting some
popping coming from the front end while in 4wd. It was only about a
month ago that I found one of the carrier bearings had been spinning on
the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I have had a cracked
transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front driveshaft u-joints,
and probably a couple other things I haven't thought of. My latest
breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end
and guess what we found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A
quick check verified that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right.
The wrong gears were installed up front. I guess that explains why I
couldn't drive in 4wd on the slickrock of Moab.
I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say
the least. He wont acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong
gears in the first place. He says he always checks the ratio. I said
apparently not. He then stated that his install was warrantied for 90
days, and that because its been over a year, he won't touch it. I told
him that I should be reimbursed for at least the cost of his front end
install (approximately $575) and he replied that it wasnt his problem.
First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for
any Jeep or 4wd repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a
crappy businessman to boot.
Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on
how I should proceed. I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the
AZVJC and it's many members would be made aware of how he handled this
situation. I then told him that I would be contacting a lawyer about
reimbursement.
What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
Thanks
Rick
XTRM XJ
Rick
4x4xFUN
It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
[This message contained attachments]
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:20:04 -0700
From: "Craig Micek" <micekc@e...>
Subject: Re: gas gauge
I had a similar problem with an old toyota. The gage wouldn't go below 3/8
of a tank. It had something to do with all the dents in the tank from
romping through the desert. <grin> The tank only held about 9 gallons.
When I first got it it held about 14!
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] gas gauge
> Mine never drops below .25 tank any longer. I have been filling up by
> odometer for several years now.
>
> --Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Towle [mailto:James.Towle@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:20 AM
> To: AZ_VJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] gas gauge
>
>
> So there I was cruising down the 101 thinking I am either getting good gas
> mileage or my gas gauge is broke and all the sudden the Jeep started
> sputtering. Oh ****... I pulled off the 101, ran a red light to take the
> right hand turn and there were no gas station on that exit. I coasted (ha,
> ha) down a couple of blocks and came to a stop on a side road. Luckily
there
> was a older gentleman out front of his house. I noticed he had a nice lawn
> and asked, if he happened to have any gas for his lawn mower I could buy
> from him. He had a gallon and a half, I gave him $3, poured it in and was
on
> may way to the gas station.
> After filling up at the station the gas gauge went up. So I am thinking
the
> gauge/float was stuck or it decided to become less accurate on the
opposite
> side than is was inaccurate before. Only time will tell.
>
> I can't remember the last time I ran out of gas, it was at least 7 years
> ago. But, now I remember why I have been filling up with a 1/4 tank left.
> Don't trust those dang gauges.
>
> --James
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:15:25 -0000
From: "mini_dv1" <mini_dv1@y...>
Subject: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
hello folks,
sometime back i asked the question regarding full size vs cut axels.
I just finaly got my axels (200.00 for the pair) and i noticed that
the wagoneers had all=time four wheel drive. Does anybody know how
this will affect my vehicle? i have manual locking hubs now. And just
wondering what kind of things i should look out for concenring my
transfer case driving it in overdrive goign to be ok?
...shhhh i wish i could make sense
:D
brendan
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:30:38 -0000
From: "flexyxj" <flexyxj98@m...>
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Rick....I do tend to agree with the fact that you might just be
SOL.... No I also believe that for someone "who has 18 years" of
experiance of setting up gears, they should know the difference
between 41/11 gears and 41/9 gears....however its quite evident this
is not true...I believe that ANYONE in such standing as Al Baker
would at VERY LEAST be reasonable and just give you the cost of gears
and install back....now I know this does not include the price if the
carrier, or install kit, but I said reasonable, and I would do that
for you if I had made such a STUPID, INCOMPETENT mistake....but for
him to tall you "its not my problem" well that is just complete
BULL****. I have been setting gears for almost 10 years in all
applications from drag racing to road racing all the way to off-
roading..... I can honestly say that I have NEVER made that
mistake....(not saying that I MIGHT) BUT if I had I would make good
on it and eat some pride...but than again, by not having a conceeded
attitude that I would never make that mistake, (like Al's) then we
would not know.....
Ok, I will get off the soap box right now...It just irritates me when
people cant stand up and take responsibility for their own
actions.....
FlexyXJ
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:39:09 -0000
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Well put Joe.
Scott Maiden
--- In az_vjc@y..., "flexyxj" <flexyxj98@m...> wrote:
> Rick....I do tend to agree with the fact that you might just be
> SOL.... No I also believe that for someone "who has 18 years" of
> experiance of setting up gears, they should know the difference
> between 41/11 gears and 41/9 gears....however its quite evident
this
> is not true...I believe that ANYONE in such standing as Al Baker
> would at VERY LEAST be reasonable and just give you the cost of
gears
> and install back....now I know this does not include the price if
the
> carrier, or install kit, but I said reasonable, and I would do that
> for you if I had made such a STUPID, INCOMPETENT mistake....but for
> him to tall you "its not my problem" well that is just complete
> BULL****. I have been setting gears for almost 10 years in all
> applications from drag racing to road racing all the way to off-
> roading..... I can honestly say that I have NEVER made that
> mistake....(not saying that I MIGHT) BUT if I had I would make good
> on it and eat some pride...but than again, by not having a
conceeded
> attitude that I would never make that mistake, (like Al's) then we
> would not know.....
> Ok, I will get off the soap box right now...It just irritates me
when
> people cant stand up and take responsibility for their own
> actions.....
>
>
> FlexyXJ
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:43:18 -0000
From: "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...>
Subject: Needed! Straight T-case skid foy YJ
Anyone have one I can hAve for cheap? Or just borrow? Mine is bent to
$&IT and I am going to make my own, just need a straight template to
make it from BTW its a 6 cyl 5speed, one from same is prefereed, but
any will do.
Thanks,
Scott Maiden
93 YJ
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:56:05 -0700
From: "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...>
Subject: RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
RE: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install problemStu, Al was
contacted after I started having problems. I had found a couple broken
springs inside my case from my No-Slip. When he installed the gears, he
broke a locker spring but obtained a replacement. I called him to find out
if it was a used set of springs he installed. They were, if I remember
correctly. At the time, I mentioned that I was having problems getting it
out of 4wd. He offered no explanation as to why this was happening.
As to the rest of the problems I was having, I felt was due to the fact that
I wheel my XJ real hard, and as you know, what we do is very hard on parts.
Never did it occur to me that these problems stemmed for a bad install or
even a mismatched set of gears.
Everybody keep your posts coming as I appreciate all your thoughts.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:04 PM
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Rick,
Sorry to hear of your situation with Al. I’ve used Al before and found
just the opposite to be true. He went out of his way to pull a few strings
for some R&P pricing for me, grabbed me a new carrier for about half of what
I had found them for, charged me $200 in labor for the axle rebuild, and
painted it while had it. He came highly recommended to me by a close friend
who has used Al for the past 19+ years (and still does). In hind sight, it
was certainly was unfortunate that you did not contact him when you started
having problems right after the work was done. L
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Norman [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:31 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install problem
13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al Baker,
a retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out of his garage in
Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab shop I have used many
times.
Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly in
the front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was that I had to
back the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like the front end was just
binding up. Then I started getting some popping coming from the front end
while in 4wd. It was only about a month ago that I found one of the carrier
bearings had been spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I
have had a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front
driveshaft u-joints, and probably a couple other things I haven't thought
of. My latest breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess what
we found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick check verified
that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right. The wrong gears were
installed up front. I guess that explains why I couldn't drive in 4wd on the
slickrock of Moab.
I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the least. He
wont acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong gears in the first
place. He says he always checks the ratio. I said apparently not. He then
stated that his install was warrantied for 90 days, and that because its
been over a year, he won't touch it. I told him that I should be reimbursed
for at least the cost of his front end install (approximately $575) and he
replied that it wasnt his problem.
First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep or
4wd repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a crappy businessman
to boot.
Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
proceed. I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's
many members would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then
told him that I would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
Thanks
Rick
XTRM XJ
Rick
4x4xFUN
It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[This message contained attachments]
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:06:08 -0700
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@c...>
Subject: RE: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
Brendan,
I think you are talking about the drive plates in the hubs. Just remove
them and slap in some Warn or Superwinch manual hubs.
--Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: mini_dv1 [mailto:mini_dv1@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:15 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
hello folks,
sometime back i asked the question regarding full size vs cut axels.
I just finaly got my axels (200.00 for the pair) and i noticed that
the wagoneers had all=time four wheel drive. Does anybody know how
this will affect my vehicle? i have manual locking hubs now. And just
wondering what kind of things i should look out for concenring my
transfer case driving it in overdrive goign to be ok?
...shhhh i wish i could make sense
:D
brendan
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:11:34 -0700
From: "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...>
Subject: OT: A free smile (for the sick among us)
This.
Just.
Cracks.
Me.
Up.
http://www.nobodyhere.com/justme/nose.html
Joe West
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
Subject: RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Rick,
I have known Al for many years and have found him to be an honest person and
good friend. I am sorry about the current situation and hope you two can
come up with a fair solution.
I don't believe Al will be affected by bashing his name, his reputation
goes way beyond the small boundaries of the AZVJC. I also don't know if an
attorney would be worth the fees, especially if he only had a 90 day
warranty.
However with what you are describing, it sure sounds like that was the
problem. Hind sight is 20/20 but seeing Al or another shop early on would
have made it easier.
If there is anything I can do to help, call me at 602-273-7195.
Barry
Rick Norman <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote: Stu, Al was contacted after I
started having problems. I had found a couple broken springs inside my case
from my No-Slip. When he installed the gears, he broke a locker spring but
obtained a replacement. I called him to find out if it was a used set of
springs he installed. They were, if I remember correctly. At the time, I
mentioned that I was having problems getting it out of 4wd. He offered no
explanation as to why this was happening. As to the rest nbsphe problems I
was having, I felt was due to the fact that I wheel my XJ real hard, and as
you know, what we do is very hard on parts. Never did it occur to me that
these problems stemmed for a bad install or even a mismatched set of gears.
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[This message contained attachments]
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__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
Subject: Re: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
To call someone conceded at not knowing them at all is pretty bold, unless
you were there when the conversation took place. Just an observation.
bermboy2000 <bermboy@h...> wrote: Well put Joe.
Scott Maiden
--- In az_vjc@y..., "flexyxj" wrote:
> Rick....I do tend to agree with the fact that you might just be
> SOL.... No I also believe that for someone "who has 18 years" of
> experiance of setting up gears, they should know the difference
> between 41/11 gears and 41/9 gears....however its quite evident
this
> is not true...I believe that ANYONE in such standing as Al Baker
> would at VERY LEAST be reasonable and just give you the cost of
gears
> and install back....now I know this does not include the price if
the
> carrier, or install kit, but I said reasonable, and I would do that
> for you if I had made such a STUPID, INCOMPETENT mistake....but for
> him to tall you "its not my problem" well that is just complete
> BULL****. I have been setting gears for almost 10 years in all
> applications from drag racing to road racing all the way to off-
> roading..... I can honestly say that I have NEVER made that
> mistake....(not saying that I MIGHT) BUT if I had I would make good
> on it and eat some pride...but than again, by not having a
conceeded
> attitude that I would never make that mistake, (like Al's) then we
> would not know.....
> Ok, I will get off the soap box right now...It just irritates me
when
> people cant stand up and take responsibility for their own
> actions.....
>
>
> FlexyXJ
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:53:34 -0500
From: "Jay Eller" <jay@t...>
Subject: Re: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
Shouldn't be a problem. But is the rear pumpkin offset to one side now???
This might be a problem. I believe most of the all-wheel-drive Waggy's had
a t-case that had a rear output to one side rather than straight out the
back. I could be wrong, but I believe this to be the case. If this true
with what you got, it may make for an interesting drive line angle. If it
isn't true, then just ignore me!! ;-)
----------------------------
Jay Eller
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:26:49 -0700
From: "Leonard K. Pennock" <leonardpennock@c...>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2338
I would contact a lawyer on this. First of all the orginal work was not
performed as ordered. If you have the orginial work order that states
4.56 were to be installed and the statement from the servicing mechianic
the 3.73 were in place you have a good case for recovering not only the
cost of the orginial labor but all repairs that were caused by the
incorrect installation.
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
>
> Message: 22 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:41:56 -0700 From: "David
> Withers" <dwithers@a...> Subject: RE: Help/advice needed
> with gear install problem
>
> Even if you win your small claims court case, that doesn't mean
> you'll get your money back. He'll just have a judgment on his
> credit.
>
>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Rick Norman
>> [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:31 PM To:
>> AZ_VJC Subject: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install
>> problem
>>
>>
>>
>> 13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al
>> Baker, a retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out
>> of his garage in Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local
>> fab shop I have used many times.
>>
>> Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly
>> in the front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was
>> that I had to back the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like
>> the front end was just binding up. Then I started getting some
>> popping coming from the front end while in 4wd. It was only about
>> a month ago that I found one of the carrier bearings had been
>> spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I have
>> had a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front
>> driveshaft u-joints, and probably a couple other things I
>> haven't thought of. My latest breakage was a broken tooth on the
>> front pinion.
>>
>> Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess
>> what we found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick
>> check verified that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats
>> right. The wrong gears were installed up front. I guess that
>> explains why I couldn't drive in 4wd on the slickrock of Moab.
>>
>> I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the
>> least. He wont acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong
>> gears in the first place. He says he always checks the ratio. I
>> said apparently not. He then stated that his install was
>> warrantied for 90 days, and that because its been over a year, he
>> won't touch it. I told him that I should be reimbursed for at
>> least the cost of his front end install (approximately $575) and
>> he replied that it wasnt his problem.
>>
>> First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep
>> or 4wd repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a
>> crappy businessman to boot.
>>
>> Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
proceed. I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's
>>many members would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then
>>told him that I would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
>>
>>What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Rick
>>XTRM XJ
>>
>>Rick
>>4x4xFUN
>>It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
>>http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
>>
>>
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 04:40:57 -0000
From: "mini_dv1" <mini_dv1@y...>
Subject: Re: D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
yes i have the spicer t-case with the offset pumpkin setup. :D
thats is why i chose the earlier 70's model j-truck or wagoneer
axels .
thanks
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Jay Eller" <jay@t...> wrote:
> Shouldn't be a problem. But is the rear pumpkin offset to one side
now???
> This might be a problem. I believe most of the all-wheel-drive
Waggy's had
> a t-case that had a rear output to one side rather than straight
out the
> back. I could be wrong, but I believe this to be the case. If
this true
> with what you got, it may make for an interesting drive line
angle. If it
> isn't true, then just ignore me!! ;-)
> ----------------------------
> Jay Eller
> http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:40:35 -0700
From: "CoyotEddie" <coyoteddie@e...>
Subject: Re: OT: A free smile (for the sick among us)
LMAO
This.
Just.
Cracks.
Me.
Up.
http://www.nobodyhere.com/justme/nose.html
Joe West
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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 04:56:39 -0000
From: "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...>
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Barry,
My friend, once again someone under estimates the power of AzVJC and
of advertising, beit good or bad. I am not siding with anyone in this
statement regarding Rick's situation so don't get me wrong. AzVJC has
been discounted in MANY instances and the funny thing is we always
prove the nay sayer incorrect. Officailly unorganized we are,
organized as a group we also are.
If the guy screwed up he should make it good. If people like Barry
and Stu really know this guy Al then they should help pressure him
until he makes it good. That is what this group should be about and
most of the time we are.
We go to Land Use meetings because someone is screwing up or trying
to screw us up. The other "organized groups" don't do this. When one
of our members gets screwed we need to stand up and be heard, just
like the land use meetings. If you aren't up for the standing maybe,
just maybe, we need to go find another group. One where you can sit
back on your laurels and let people, including greenies, do whatever
they want.
Rick, I am sorry to hear about what happened. I remember you having
problems with your rig on runs we went on. When Big-O sold bme the
incorrect rims and I found out a year later after they had rock rash
on them they made it good and gave me new rims. I would hope that
this guy, Al, would at least make good on what you were supposed to
get. As far as what was damaged, I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were
you.
If I can help you out please let me know.
--James
PS - Barry, no one is "bashing his name", they are just advertising
for his service or lack there of. The content in the advertising is
up to him, just like any vendor we/AzVJC deal(s) with.
--- In az_vjc@y..., barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...> wrote:
>
> Rick,
> I have known Al for many years and have found him to be an honest
person and good friend. I am sorry about the current situation and
hope you two can come up with a fair solution.
> I don't believe Al will be affected by bashing his name, his
reputation goes way beyond the small boundaries of the AZVJC. I also
don't know if an attorney would be worth the fees, especially if he
only had a 90 day warranty.
> However with what you are describing, it sure sounds like that was
the problem. Hind sight is 20/20 but seeing Al or another shop early
on would have made it easier.
> If there is anything I can do to help, call me at 602-273-7195.
> Barry
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 18
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:17:40 -0700
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
Wow! Sorry to hear about this! I don't know Al Baker or how qualified he
is, but apparently he isn't interested in keeping customers or getting
new ones. It really doesn't matter if he has friends or satisified
customers. Mess with an AZVJCer -- that's enough for me to boycott a
business for a long long time! Thanks for the warning. Do you know if he
is running a legitmate business? Does the business have a name? Email
address?
Linda
Rick Norman wrote:
>
> 13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al Baker, a
> retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out of his garage in
> Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab shop I have used many
> times.
>
> Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly in the
> front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was that I had to back
> the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like the front end was just
binding
> up. Then I started getting some popping coming from the front end while in
> 4wd. It was only about a month ago that I found one of the carrier
bearings
> had been spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I have
had
> a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front driveshaft
> u-joints, and probably a couple other things I haven't thought of. My
> latest breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
>
> Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess what we
> found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick check verified
> that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right. The wrong gears were
> installed up front. I guess that explains why I couldn't drive in 4wd on
the
> slickrock of Moab.
>
> I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the least. He
wont
> acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong gears in the first place.
> He says he always checks the ratio. I said apparently not. He then stated
> that his install was warrantied for 90 days, and that because its been
over
> a year, he won't touch it. I told him that I should be reimbursed for at
> least the cost of his front end install (approximately $575) and he
replied
> that it wasnt his problem.
>
> First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep or 4wd
> repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a crappy businessman
to
> boot.
>
> Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
proceed.
> I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's many
members
> would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then told him that
I
> would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
>
> What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
>
> Rick
> 4x4xFUN
> It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
> http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Name: winmail.dat
> winmail.dat Type: Netscape File (application/ms-tnef)
> Encoding: base64
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__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 19
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 05:23:30 -0000
From: "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...>
Subject: vehicle type required to be a member.
I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE 1967.
DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT
TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. THANKS
LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 20
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:30:42 -0700
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Subject: Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
Way cool! Welcome!
Linda
dirtworks13 wrote:
>
> I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE 1967.
> DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
> MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
> JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT
> TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. THANKS
> LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 21
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:36:22 -0700
From: "DesertJeep" <joey@d...>
Subject: RE: vehicle type required to be a member.
Larry,
Your in! Welcome to the conglomeration!! Got any pictures to share of
your M422A1??
Joey K
93YJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dirtworks13 [mailto:autoprocollision@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:24 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] vehicle type required to be a member.
>
>
> I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE
> 1967. DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
> MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
> JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT
> TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. THANKS
> LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:33:12 -0700
From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Subject: Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
I should say I the last time I saw one of those was at the Military
Vehicle Preservationists show last year. How do you keep something like
that running? Are there still parts available?
Linda
dirtworks13 wrote:
>
> I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE 1967.
> DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
> MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
> JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT
> TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. THANKS
> LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ ______________________
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:49:56 -0700
From: "Robert Holmes" <robert@c...>
Subject: RE: D44 off Waggoner for CJ
Almost all of them have offset axels, this is not because of the driveline
coming out of one side or the other, but on the older ones the factory
assumed the gas tank would get in the way of the driveline.
We are currently going to swap a set of 44's into our scrambler, the offset
pumpkin will make it interesting, but I doubt there will be a problem
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Eller [mailto:jay@t...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:54 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 off Wagoneer for CJ
Shouldn't be a problem. But is the rear pumpkin offset to one side now???
This might be a problem. I believe most of the all-wheel-drive Waggy's had
a t-case that had a rear output to one side rather than straight out the
back. I could be wrong, but I believe this to be the case. If this true
with what you got, it may make for an interesting drive line angle. If it
isn't true, then just ignore me!! ;-)
----------------------------
Jay Eller
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 24
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:13:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: barry brummett <heinz57yj@y...>
Subject: Re: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
James, I don't under estimate the power of the anyone. Remember I am a
member of this group as well as two other 4 wheel drive clubs. I will,
however, not pressure a friend on how to run or conduct his business. If I
had all the information on this matter, not just one side be it right or
wrong I still would not be compelled to to jump into this situation, I feel
that it is between consumer and customer. If the AzVJC jumps on a band
wagon and boycott Al then let it be so. His reputation and business among
the many wheelers that know him will not be hindered and that would include
myself.
I do hope that Al and Rick come to an positive solution to this matter.
---------------------------------
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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 06:23:05 -0000
From: "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...>
Subject: m422a1 membership
hay, that was easy but doesn,t someone with power need to bless this
union ? pictures are coming but first some repairs after the "mighty
mite" fell two feet from the vehicle lift it was on . sheet metal
only and after all this is a body shop. as for how i keep it going ,
well lots of mods. such as a v6 buick swap for the origional air-
cooled 4 banger, blazer frt. hubs and chev. van steering box along
with custom frt. steering linkage. so far no running gear problems.
very little rust as most of it is aluminum. my mods. have added a
1000# so far and i weigh in at 2700 #. i didn,t makeup the
name "mighty mite" either. american motors named it. i call it the
polish cadillac
larry
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56205 From: flatfenderman2000 <cnd4ever@g...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:17am
Subject: 2 Free CJ Grill's...
If anyone needs a grill I have two, just come get'em. One is out of a
77 CJ5 and should fit any 76 to 86 CJ 5 or 7. It's in OK shape, no
head light buckets or parking lights. It will need a little welding
on the radiator support. The second grill is out of an early CJ5 and
is in exellent shape and has all lights and bezels still in it. It
wont fit later model CJ's unless you modify the radiator suport. If
your looking for a retro look, this one is for you....
FYI, these grills are in Florence. Just drop me an e-mail and there
yours. I should be home this evening if you want to come get them.
Chris Lewis
56206 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:19am
Subject: RE: Re: K&N filter upgrade
Scott,
I noticed a difference when I installed the snorkel and put the K&N on top
of it... you were thinking about moving your air intake to the cowl vent
area... are you still going to do that?
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:46 PM
> To: 'robert_j_rogers2'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: K&N filter upgrade
>
>
> I recently went back to the stock airbox after running a K&N
> cone filter
> off the airtube for the last 3 years. I was amazed at how much more
> power I have when the temperatures are high. I need to fab up
> some kind
56207 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:27am
Subject: RE: Re: K&N filter upgrade
I have a K&N, somewhat like the one in the pic. Mine
goes off to the front/side. Is a snorkel better for
gas mileage? If so, is it very involved/expensive to
install?
--- Joe W <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> Scott,
>
> I noticed a difference when I installed the snorkel
> and put the K&N on top
> of it... you were thinking about moving your air
> intake to the cowl vent
> area... are you still going to do that?
>
>
> Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Kruize
> [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:46 PM
> > To: 'robert_j_rogers2'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: K&N filter upgrade
> >
> >
> > I recently went back to the stock airbox after
> running a K&N
> > cone filter
> > off the airtube for the last 3 years. I was amazed
> at how much more
> > power I have when the temperatures are high. I
> need to fab up
> > some kind
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
S. Jayke Thorpe
__________________________________________________
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http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
56208 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:47am
Subject: Re: Re: dual batteries
Michael:
You're right. I meant Ford type solenoid. And it is. You can't tell them apart by looking at them. The point was made however. Proven technology and resonable pricing.
Gary Holmes
Michael Wixom wrote:
I did not think you could use an actual ford ignition solenoid, I tried it in my Chevy pick up and it would work for a few days then burn out, I bought one at Isleys RV parts that was rated for continuous duty and it lasted for years. The ford starter solenoids will not hold up to continuous energizing as in charging dual batteries. I now have a painless wiring dual battery set-up in my CJ that is kind of cool it allows switching between batteries for different situations. It cost considerably less than 200.00.
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Holmes
To: sthomas@architekton.com
Cc:parajeeper ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteries
Scott:
If you don't subscribe to the isolator setup for dual batteries then it is very simple and inexpensive to utilize a Ford starter solenoid to charge/connect the two batteries together and control when you want to do it. It has been done for years (centuries?) with motor homes and works great. but if someone wants to spend $185-$200 to do it I'll be glad to take their money and set them up. If you look at that set up closely you will see that that is all it is with a ridicules price tag.
Gary Holmes
Scott Thomas wrote:
You still have to buy the dual battery solenoid set up which I believe isaround $185-$200.Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: parajeeper [mailto:pwhhl@yahoo.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:04 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteriesCan't you just mount it in the rear cargo area behind the seat on acustom tray with long cables running to the other battery? Cheaperthan $500--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" wrote:
get us some pictures-----Original Message-----From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:49 PMTo: Mark Mesalam; David Withers; sthomas@a...;az_vjc@y...Subject: Re: [az_vjc] dual batteriesNever say never ;)I've seen a writeups from a couple of people, who have done it
easily.
Use Optima batteries, as they can be mounted in any position. They
both
used two Optimas (full sized ones), and mounted them on their sides
in
the same location as the stock battery. They fit without much of aproblem. Cheers, Fred----- Original Message -----From: Mark Mesalam To: David Withers ;sthomas@a... ; az_vjc@y...Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:36 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesThere isn't room. There is A/C stuff in the way.-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:54 PMTo: sthomas@a...; az_vjc@y...Subject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesI thought there wasn't room to run dual optimas in a TJ with A/C?-----Original Message-----From: Scott Thomas [mailto:sthomas@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:48 PMTo: David WithersSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesDoes having A/C really make that big of a difference on your
electrical
power supply? I can see that having a winch and 15 KC lights make
that
kind of a difference, but A/C. It runs off of your fan belt any
ways.
Just wondering why and if this makes a difference.Thanks,Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:31 PMTo: sthomas@a...; az_vjc@y...Subject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesthis is with A/C-----Original Message-----From: Scott Thomas [mailto:sthomas@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:10 PMTo: David WithersSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesHey David, I'm not sure if you are just informing people or if you are
buying
this dual battery system. None the less I have seen set up that arecheaper and you choose the batteries that you are going to run, so
you
can run two Optima batteries. If you want more information let me
know
and I'll see if I can dig up the information.Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:06 PMTo: az_vjc@y...Subject: [az_vjc] dual batteriesDual Battery System - Jeep TJ<http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-
bin/merchant2/graphics/00000001/34-96
5-1.jpg>Quantity in Basket: noneCode: WNW34-965-1Price: $499.95Shipping Weight: 25.00 poundsQuantity:Dual battery system for '97 - '02 Jeep Wrangler (TJ). Works with orwithout a/c! The system uses two small deep-cycle Odyssey batteries,providing 925cca each. Kit includes all wiring, tray, two
batteries, and
in-cab switch.http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD
<http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD
&Store_Code=4x4RS&Product_Code=WNW34-965-1&Category_Code=Batteries>&Store_Code=4x4RS&Product_Code=WNW34-965-1&Category_Code=BatteriesDavid R. W. WithersDesk: 480.551.4667Mobile: 480.215.6992Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
56209 From: kmichael02 <kmichael02@y...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:49am
Subject: Re: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
People make mistakes, althought I don't directly know either party
involved, I am on here frequently looking for advice, help and so
forth regarding various things. My jeep is my only transportation
and I rely on the experiences of many of the faceless members of this
club, as to whom to talk to and whom to see to have major wrenching
done. I feel if you paid for a specific service and got something
other than what you paid for(hopefully it was written down),
regardless of the time frame(reasonably time frame at best), then you
are due some degree of retribution or compensation or help.
I don't know the installer of the gears but it seems to me there is
no since trying to difuse a bomb after it has gone off. Too me, at
this point, it would seem that the installer now has to "ligitimately
answer" for how 3.73's got in the front and 4.56's in the rear. It's
no longer a question of right or wrong. Time frame is somewhat
irrelavant because the driver of the jeep is no gear expert and
wouldn't know that all the issues were from running different sets of
gears. So It's now a question of main't the "great image" you all
project on this installer. You all say he is a great mechanic,
individual, etc etc etc. Well, if that is the case I believe he
should step to the plate and say hey, "I guess I did screw up." That
makes him more solid in my book. Someone who doesnt' take
responsibility for their mistakes, even if it happens only once, is,
IMO lacking character. Especially when the situation is one of "an
expert(installer) and non expert relationship. I beleive as a
business owner, and resident expert(he certainly was dispensing
guidance and opinion) he has a duty to treat a customer with the
respect they deserve. He spent a lot of money and had issues for a
year due to this "mix up." Again this is one opinion, I know
neither party.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Rick Norman" <4x4xfun1@c...> wrote:
>
>
> 13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al
Baker, a
> retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out of his
garage in
> Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab shop I have
used many
> times.
>
> Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly
in the
> front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was that I had
to back
> the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like the front end was
just binding
> up. Then I started getting some popping coming from the front end
while in
> 4wd. It was only about a month ago that I found one of the carrier
bearings
> had been spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior to that, I
have had
> a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced 4 front
driveshaft
> u-joints, and probably a couple other things I haven't thought of.
My
> latest breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
>
> Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess
what we
> found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick check
verified
> that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right. The wrong gears
were
> installed up front. I guess that explains why I couldn't drive in
4wd on the
> slickrock of Moab.
>
> I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the least.
He wont
> acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong gears in the first
place.
> He says he always checks the ratio. I said apparently not. He then
stated
> that his install was warrantied for 90 days, and that because its
been over
> a year, he won't touch it. I told him that I should be reimbursed
for at
> least the cost of his front end install (approximately $575) and he
replied
> that it wasnt his problem.
>
> First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep
or 4wd
> repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a crappy
businessman to
> boot.
>
> Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
proceed.
> I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's
many members
> would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then told
him that I
> would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
>
> What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
>
> Rick
> 4x4xFUN
> It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
> http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
56210 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:51am
Subject: RE: Help/advice needed with gear install problem
I have been do gear installs for 20 years and this is the first time I have
heard of someone doing this. It should have been very obvious during the
test drive that the transfer case was binding and there something was wrong
in the front end.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Norman [mailto:4x4xfun1@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:31 PM
> To: AZ_VJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] Help/advice needed with gear install problem
>
>
>
> 13 months ago I had my XJ regeared to 4.56. This was done by Al Baker, a
> retired 4wd shop owner who now operates his business out of his garage in
> Glendale. He came highly recommended by a local fab shop I have used many
> times.
>
> Immediately after the gear swap, I started having problems, mostly in the
> front end/transfer case. The first thing I noticed was that I had to back
> the Jeep up to get it out of 4wd. It was like the front end was just
> binding up. Then I started getting some popping coming from the front end
> while in 4wd. It was only about a month ago that I found one of the
> carrier bearings had been spinning on the carrier. In the 12 months prior
> to that, I have had a cracked transfer case (of unknown origin), replaced
> 4 front driveshaft u-joints, and probably a couple other things I haven't
> thought of. My latest breakage was a broken tooth on the front pinion.
>
> Last night we pulled the old gears out of the front end and guess what we
> found.........I had 3.73 gears in the front axle. A quick check verified
> that the rear is geared to 4.56. Yup, thats right. The wrong gears were
> installed up front. I guess that explains why I couldn't drive in 4wd on
> the slickrock of Moab.
>
> I just contacted Al Baker. It didnt go very well, to say the least. He
> wont acknowledge the fact that he installed the wrong gears in the first
> place. He says he always checks the ratio. I said apparently not. He then
> stated that his install was warrantied for 90 days, and that because its
> been over a year, he won't touch it. I told him that I should be
> reimbursed for at least the cost of his front end install (approximately
> $575) and he replied that it wasnt his problem.
>
> First off, I urge all of you to avoid using Al Baker for any Jeep or 4wd
> repair. He's obviously an incompetent installer and a crappy businessman
> to boot.
>
> Second, I would like to get your thoughts and ideas on how I should
> proceed. I mentioned that EVERYBODY I know, including the AZVJC and it's
> many members would be made aware of how he handled this situation. I then
> told him that I would be contacting a lawyer about reimbursement.
>
> What do you think??? Do I stand a chance??
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
> XTRM XJ
>
> Rick
> 4x4xFUN
> It's an XJ thing...you wouldn't understand
> http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
56211 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:15am
Subject: Cooling a 350 (revisited)
I had to share this with the group. I've been fighting a cooling
problem in my Jeep in the summers ever since I did the Chevy350 swap in
to it. For those that don't know, I have a CJ7 with Chevy 350, turbo350
combo. I finally have it to where I no longer worry about cooling
issues any more, even in 110F heat and in traffic. Here is what I did
and the results:
1) Stock CJ7 7 blade fan with thermal fan clutch
2) 4 core radiator from Mepco (not their 3 core high efficiency one).
3) Custom made fan shroud with 1" plenum and 1/2 covering the depth of
the fan fins.
4) 160F high flow thermostat
5) Stock water pump
6) 70% water, 30% coolant
7) 4.56 gears
8) 38" tires
I find, when the outside air temp is 105F or so, it runs 175 down the
freeway turning 2,800 rpm. When slowing to idle and in stop and go
traffic, it runs no more than 180F. So if anyone is considering this
swap, this is what I have done to solve my cooling problems. And it
works!
Just FYI to those that may be having issues with this.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
56212 From: Scott Thomas <sthomas@a...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:53am
Subject: RE: Re: dual batteries
Mike the painless wiring set-up is the one that I was thinking of. Not really sure of the exact price, but I do remember it being less than the set-up that David e-mailed out.
Scott Thomas
97' Tj
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Wixom [mailto:h8pvmnt@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:33 PM
To: sthomas@architekton.com; Gary Holmes
Cc: parajeeper; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteries
I did not think you could use an actual ford ignition solenoid, I tried it in my Chevy pick up and it would work for a few days then burn out, I bought one at Isleys RV parts that was rated for continuous duty and it lasted for years. The ford starter solenoids will not hold up to continuous energizing as in charging dual batteries. I now have a painless wiring dual battery set-up in my CJ that is kind of cool it allows switching between batteries for different situations. It cost considerably less than 200.00.
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Holmes
To: sthomas@architekton.com
Cc: parajeeper ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteries
Scott:
If you don't subscribe to the isolator setup for dual batteries then it is very simple and inexpensive to utilize a Ford starter solenoid to charge/connect the two batteries together and control when you want to do it. It has been done for years (centuries?) with motor homes and works great. but if someone wants to spend $185-$200 to do it I'll be glad to take their money and set them up. If you look at that set up closely you will see that that is all it is with a ridicules price tag.
Gary Holmes
Scott Thomas wrote:
You still have to buy the dual battery solenoid set up which I believe isaround $185-$200.Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: parajeeper [mailto:pwhhl@yahoo.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:04 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] Re: dual batteriesCan't you just mount it in the rear cargo area behind the seat on acustom tray with long cables running to the other battery? Cheaperthan $500--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" wrote:
get us some pictures-----Original Message-----From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:49 PMTo: Mark Mesalam; David Withers; sthomas@a...;az_vjc@y...Subject: Re: [az_vjc] dual batteriesNever say never ;)I've seen a writeups from a couple of people, who have done it
easily.
Use Optima batteries, as they can be mounted in any position. They
both
used two Optimas (full sized ones), and mounted them on their sides
in
the same location as the stock battery. They fit without much of aproblem. Cheers, Fred----- Original Message -----From: Mark Mesalam To: David Withers ;sthomas@a... ; az_vjc@y...Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:36 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesThere isn't room. There is A/C stuff in the way.-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:54 PMTo: sthomas@a...; az_vjc@y...Subject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesI thought there wasn't room to run dual optimas in a TJ with A/C?-----Original Message-----From: Scott Thomas [mailto:sthomas@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:48 PMTo: David WithersSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesDoes having A/C really make that big of a difference on your
electrical
power supply? I can see that having a winch and 15 KC lights make
that
kind of a difference, but A/C. It runs off of your fan belt any
ways.
Just wondering why and if this makes a difference.Thanks,Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:31 PMTo: sthomas@a...; az_vjc@y...Subject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesthis is with A/C-----Original Message-----From: Scott Thomas [mailto:sthomas@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:10 PMTo: David WithersSubject: RE: [az_vjc] dual batteriesHey David, I'm not sure if you are just informing people or if you are
buying
this dual battery system. None the less I have seen set up that arecheaper and you choose the batteries that you are going to run, so
you
can run two Optima batteries. If you want more information let me
know
and I'll see if I can dig up the information.Scott Thomas97' Tj-----Original Message-----From: David Withers [mailto:dwithers@a...]Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:06 PMTo: az_vjc@y...Subject: [az_vjc] dual batteriesDual Battery System - Jeep TJ<http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-
bin/merchant2/graphics/00000001/34-96
5-1.jpg>Quantity in Basket: noneCode: WNW34-965-1Price: $499.95Shipping Weight: 25.00 poundsQuantity:Dual battery system for '97 - '02 Jeep Wrangler (TJ). Works with orwithout a/c! The system uses two small deep-cycle Odyssey batteries,providing 925cca each. Kit includes all wiring, tray, two
batteries, and
in-cab switch.http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD
<http://site36773.dellhost.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD
&Store_Code=4x4RS&Product_Code=WNW34-965-1&Category_Code=Batteries>&Store_Code=4x4RS&Product_Code=WNW34-965-1&Category_Code=BatteriesDavid R. W. WithersDesk: 480.551.4667Mobile: 480.215.6992Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
56213 From: Jason B <the_anubis@h...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:55am
Subject: Torx Tools
Does anybody know all the torx sizes needed to work on a jeep?
I have tons of tools but never had a need for torx....till now :)
and whats the best brand, I have used some cheep ones, and, of course they
broke.....
Thanx All.....
-Jason
92 YJ
__________________________________________________ _______________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
56214 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:29am
Subject: Re: Torx Tools
Beleive it or not, the best Torx bits I have found are the Ace Brand at Ace Hardware. They sell a complete set (complete enough to have all the sizes you will find on a jeep from CJ to ZJ) for like 20 bucks. Ace brand seems to me the best quality. I have never had one strip on me. And beleive me, I have had to use them ALOT over the years. And in some cases, under sever condotions.
I tired once buying a nice set, (supposedly high American quality) from a well known tool shop here in town, I tore them up in one hour, and returned them with 2 bloody knuckles. Got my money back and went to Ace to buy another "cheap" set. (I had lost too many of the original set)
Hope that helps.
John K
56215 From: Matt Bolton <a_waxx5@y...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:37am
Subject: Re: D44 off Waggoner for CJ
The Quadratrac(sp.) transfer case does use passenger
side offset for the rear output, while this may not be
the universal explanation for the offset Dana 44, it
is true in some cases. (ie. CJ's w/q-trac and an
offset model 20)
As far as converting the front from fulltime to part
time,
pop the cap off, remove the snap ring, slide out the
big "gear", the spring behind it, and spring
washer/spacer (may be covered in grease back by the
bearing).
To install the hub of your choice, (between $50 and
$80 for the pair depending on manufacture)
Slide the new locking "gear" in, install new snap
ring, bolt the front of the new locking hub up, and
you’re done.
I just swapped un-cut, offset D-44 in to a CJ w/ a
spicer -18 , if you have any questions, or want to see
it, I'll try to help.
Matt
'46 2A
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
56216 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:50am
Subject: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Think again...
The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ makes (on
purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever noticed that
your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center position, even when you
stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for this is that the
"center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so that the needle
position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the center range, yet
travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high range.
The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at by looking at the
gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge (normal operating
range). If the pointer travels outside the normal range, it will
automatically peg at the high end and the check engine light will go on.
Here's what I measured...
nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my new gauges...
driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my temperature moved
about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I then installed
the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the nominal idle
temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached normal
operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the place from 200
degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle will go up 5
degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10 to 15 degrees
and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let everyone know that
the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to overheating and you
will never know it until it is too late and the factory gauge pegs to the
hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an idiot light with two
positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the temperature
settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume because your gauge
doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay. For those of you with
modifications similar to mine (winch and lights blocking the grille) you may
have to move to a better radiator to ensure adequate cooling. Do not depend
on the factory gauge to detect temperature trends... keep in mind that it is
about as accurate as an idiot light.
Joe West
Joe West
Synopsys Applications Consultant
2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
Tempe, Arizona 85282
Office: (480) 921-3732
Cell: (602) 524-7632
Fax: (480) 921-8883
56217 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:53am
Subject: RE: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Joe,
Have you verified the accuracy of your VDO readings by using a secondary
probe near the thermostat housing?
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:50 AM
To: Azvjc (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge
is linear and somewhat accurate...
Think again...
The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ makes (on
purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever noticed that
your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center position, even when
you stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for this is
that the "center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so that
the needle position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the
center range, yet travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high
range. The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at by
looking at the gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge
(normal operating range). If the pointer travels outside the normal
range, it will automatically peg at the high end and the check engine
light will go on.
Here's what I measured...
nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my new gauges...
driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my temperature
moved about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I then
installed the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the
nominal idle temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached
normal operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the place
from 200 degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle will
go up 5 degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10 to
15 degrees and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let everyone know
that the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to overheating and
you will never know it until it is too late and the factory gauge pegs
to the hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an idiot
light with two positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the
temperature settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume
because your gauge doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay.
For those of you with modifications similar to mine (winch and lights
blocking the grille) you may have to move to a better radiator to ensure
adequate cooling. Do not depend on the factory gauge to detect
temperature trends... keep in mind that it is about as accurate as an
idiot light.
Joe West
Joe West
Synopsys Applications Consultant
2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
Tempe, Arizona 85282
Office: (480) 921-3732
Cell: (602) 524-7632
Fax: (480) 921-8883
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
56218 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:01am
Subject: Re: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Same for the battery. It is, literally, nothing more than an idiot light,
displaying low or high and turning on the <check engine> light at either end
of that. They're basically only three positions that the thing displays,
sort of middle, low and high. Actually all the guages in the instrument
cluster are like that. The computer controls all the displays, at what it
thinks should be shown.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
To: "Azvjc (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:50 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is
linear and somewhat accurate...
> Think again...
>
> The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ makes (on
> purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever noticed that
> your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center position, even when
you
> stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for this is that the
> "center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so that the needle
> position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the center range,
yet
> travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high range.
> The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at by looking at
the
> gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge (normal operating
> range). If the pointer travels outside the normal range, it will
> automatically peg at the high end and the check engine light will go on.
>
> Here's what I measured...
>
> nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
> nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
>
> I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my new gauges...
> driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my temperature moved
> about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I then installed
> the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the nominal idle
> temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
>
> While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached
normal
> operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the place from 200
> degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle will go up 5
> degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10 to 15 degrees
> and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
>
> What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let everyone know that
> the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
> temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to overheating and
you
> will never know it until it is too late and the factory gauge pegs to the
> hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an idiot light with
two
> positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the temperature
> settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume because your gauge
> doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay. For those of you with
> modifications similar to mine (winch and lights blocking the grille) you
may
> have to move to a better radiator to ensure adequate cooling. Do not
depend
> on the factory gauge to detect temperature trends... keep in mind that it
is
> about as accurate as an idiot light.
>
> Joe West
>
>
>
>
> Joe West
> Synopsys Applications Consultant
> 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> Tempe, Arizona 85282
>
> Office: (480) 921-3732
> Cell: (602) 524-7632
> Fax: (480) 921-8883
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
56219 From: ricklog502002 <rlogan@d...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:04am
Subject: new jeeper comming to town
I am already of member of this club but I live in Flagstaff. I am
moving to Gilbert and looking forward to the lunches and other things
this club does my jeep is in the gallery under richard logan
56220 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:11am
Subject: Rocky Point 6/21
The family and I have decided to go down to Rocky Point a week from
tomorrow, for the weekend. I was wondering if someone else would be down
there, from the group, or if anyone else wanted to go. We will be dragging
the TJ behind the truck and staying at a hotel. If you want the number for
our hotel I can get it, I don't have it off hand.
I am kind of excited because this will be the first time I have had the Jeep
in the sand since getting my lockers, tires and gears. Plus, I actually get
to put the Jeep in four wheel drive, lol (I didn't think I would get to do
that this summer). I had better get a shovel, now that I think about it.
Let me know.
--James
56221 From: az_jml <JML2112@h...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:06am
Subject: 74 cj5
hello my name is Jeff i have a 74 cj5 and i would like to put a t-18
4 speed in it. i have a t-15 in it now. does anyone have any advice
on this swap. it also has a dana 20 transfer case dana 44 rear and
dana 30 front with a 304 pushing it all around.looking for any advice
i can get.dont have a t-18 trans yet so if anyone has one laying
around or knows someone who does please call or email me.
sincerely,
cel 480-330-9527 Jeff
email JML2112@h...
56222 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:17am
Subject: RE: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Hi Fred,
The computer controls every gauge except the oil pressure gauge (I think, I
don't have the schematic in front of me but I seem to remember that the oil
pressure is not filtered). I have not quantified the other gauges yet...
but I believe you to be correct that all of the gauges are nothing more than
idiot lights with pointers on them.
The computer controls the display range and linearity of the gauges AND,
when it detects something is wrong, it pegs the gauges to either min or max
value depending on the failure condition and then turns on the check engine
light.
I remember the first time I had this happen with my voltage gauge on my
TJ... I looked at the gauges and went OH MY GOD!!! My voltage is at 19
VOLTS!!!! After I figured out that the computer pushes the gauge to the
maximum value (what idiot thought of this?) or minimum value depending on
the failure... I wasn't so worried. I guess the engineers at DC don't think
that the average Jeep driver can figure out what the problem is by looking
at the actual readings... they figure it must be easier just to push the
gauge to the max or min value so that we can't miss the problem... what
idiots! If I'm running hot, I want to know HOW HOT and not just the fact
that it is TOO HOT.
Here's a summary of what you get with the factory gauges:
Speed, accurate
Tach, accurate
Voltage, nominal, high, low
Temperature, relatively accurate low to nominal, high
Oil pressure, not computer controlled, accurate to cheap gauge limitations.
Fuel, not accurate ever... what a joke.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:02 AM
> To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature
> gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
>
>
> Same for the battery. It is, literally, nothing more than an
> idiot light,
> displaying low or high and turning on the <check engine>
> light at either end
> of that. They're basically only three positions that the
> thing displays,
> sort of middle, low and high. Actually all the guages in the
> instrument
> cluster are like that. The computer controls all the
> displays, at what it
> thinks should be shown.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
> To: "Azvjc (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:50 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ
> temperature gauge is
> linear and somewhat accurate...
>
>
> > Think again...
> >
> > The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ
> makes (on
> > purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever
> noticed that
> > your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center
> position, even when
> you
> > stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for
> this is that the
> > "center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so
> that the needle
> > position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the
> center range,
> yet
> > travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high range.
> > The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at
> by looking at
> the
> > gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge
> (normal operating
> > range). If the pointer travels outside the normal range, it will
> > automatically peg at the high end and the check engine
> light will go on.
> >
> > Here's what I measured...
> >
> > nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
> > nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
> >
> > I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my
> new gauges...
> > driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my
> temperature moved
> > about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I
> then installed
> > the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the nominal idle
> > temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
> >
> > While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached
> normal
> > operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the
> place from 200
> > degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle
> will go up 5
> > degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10
> to 15 degrees
> > and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
> >
> > What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let
> everyone know that
> > the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
> > temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to
> overheating and
> you
> > will never know it until it is too late and the factory
> gauge pegs to the
> > hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an
> idiot light with
> two
> > positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the temperature
> > settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume
> because your gauge
> > doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay. For
> those of you with
> > modifications similar to mine (winch and lights blocking
> the grille) you
> may
> > have to move to a better radiator to ensure adequate cooling. Do not
> depend
> > on the factory gauge to detect temperature trends... keep
> in mind that it
> is
> > about as accurate as an idiot light.
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe West
> > Synopsys Applications Consultant
> > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> >
> > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
56223 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:27am
Subject: Re: For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
Joe, you got me curious about the oil pressure gauge now ;) I'll check the
FSM tonight when I get home. I first found out about the gauges being
nothing more than idiot lights when I got my winch and respooled it. After a
few seconds the charge "gauge" dropped to the low end (6 volts, I think, I
haven't actually looked at it in a while) and the check engine light came
on. I pulled out the FSM and that's when I learned that the computer pegs it
one side or the other and turns on the check engine light, depending out
what it thinks is wrong, battery in my case.. I remember thinking "what a
joke, if they are going to do this, they might as well simply use idiot
light, it's certainly cheaper ;)
:)
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
To: "'Azvjc (E-mail)'" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature gauge
is linear and somewhat accurate...
> Hi Fred,
>
> The computer controls every gauge except the oil pressure gauge (I think,
I
> don't have the schematic in front of me but I seem to remember that the
oil
> pressure is not filtered). I have not quantified the other gauges yet...
> but I believe you to be correct that all of the gauges are nothing more
than
> idiot lights with pointers on them.
>
> The computer controls the display range and linearity of the gauges AND,
> when it detects something is wrong, it pegs the gauges to either min or
max
> value depending on the failure condition and then turns on the check
engine
> light.
>
> I remember the first time I had this happen with my voltage gauge on my
> TJ... I looked at the gauges and went OH MY GOD!!! My voltage is at 19
> VOLTS!!!! After I figured out that the computer pushes the gauge to the
> maximum value (what idiot thought of this?) or minimum value depending on
> the failure... I wasn't so worried. I guess the engineers at DC don't
think
> that the average Jeep driver can figure out what the problem is by looking
> at the actual readings... they figure it must be easier just to push the
> gauge to the max or min value so that we can't miss the problem... what
> idiots! If I'm running hot, I want to know HOW HOT and not just the fact
> that it is TOO HOT.
>
> Here's a summary of what you get with the factory gauges:
>
> Speed, accurate
> Tach, accurate
> Voltage, nominal, high, low
> Temperature, relatively accurate low to nominal, high
> Oil pressure, not computer controlled, accurate to cheap gauge
limitations.
> Fuel, not accurate ever... what a joke.
>
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:02 AM
> > To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ temperature
> > gauge is linear and somewhat accurate...
> >
> >
> > Same for the battery. It is, literally, nothing more than an
> > idiot light,
> > displaying low or high and turning on the <check engine>
> > light at either end
> > of that. They're basically only three positions that the
> > thing displays,
> > sort of middle, low and high. Actually all the guages in the
> > instrument
> > cluster are like that. The computer controls all the
> > displays, at what it
> > thinks should be shown.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
> > To: "Azvjc (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:50 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] For those of you who think your TJ
> > temperature gauge is
> > linear and somewhat accurate...
> >
> >
> > > Think again...
> > >
> > > The computer which controls the temperature gauge on the TJ
> > makes (on
> > > purpose) the temperature gauge non-linear. Has anyone ever
> > noticed that
> > > your temperature gauge rarely moves from the center
> > position, even when
> > you
> > > stop or tow or are moving at high speed? The reason for
> > this is that the
> > > "center" range for the TJ is filtered by the computer so
> > that the needle
> > > position sensitivity is reduced when the needle is in the
> > center range,
> > yet
> > > travels normal linear fashion when in the low and high range.
> > > The problem? You cannot tell what temperature you are at
> > by looking at
> > the
> > > gauge when the pointer is in the center of the gauge
> > (normal operating
> > > range). If the pointer travels outside the normal range, it will
> > > automatically peg at the high end and the check engine
> > light will go on.
> > >
> > > Here's what I measured...
> > >
> > > nominal temperature = 215 on TJ gauge
> > > nominal temperature = 225 on VDO gauge
> > >
> > > I did this test when it was 110F and was checking out my
> > new gauges...
> > > driving at 65mph on the freeway with factory gauges, my
> > temperature moved
> > > about a half a needle over normal idle temperature. When I
> > then installed
> > > the new VDO gauges and did the same test... 225 was the nominal idle
> > > temperature and 240!!! was the 65mph temperature!
> > >
> > > While my factory temperature gauge rarely moved much once it reached
> > normal
> > > operating temperature, the new VDO gauge moves all over the
> > place from 200
> > > degrees to 245 degrees. If I turn the A/C on, the needle
> > will go up 5
> > > degrees, if I drive at high speed, the needle will go up 10
> > to 15 degrees
> > > and as soon as I stop it will go back down.
> > >
> > > What's the purpose of this post? The purpose is to let
> > everyone know that
> > > the factory computer is filtering the information displayed to your
> > > temperature gauge and that you may very well be close to
> > overheating and
> > you
> > > will never know it until it is too late and the factory
> > gauge pegs to the
> > > hot side. The factory gauge is not much better than an
> > idiot light with
> > two
> > > positions; overheating and not overheating... any of the temperature
> > > settings in-between cannot be trusted and DO NOT assume
> > because your gauge
> > > doesn't move off of normal that everything is okay. For
> > those of you with
> > > modifications similar to mine (winch and lights blocking
> > the grille) you
> > may
> > > have to move to a better radiator to ensure adequate cooling. Do not
> > depend
> > > on the factory gauge to detect temperature trends... keep
> > in mind that it
> > is
> > > about as accurate as an idiot light.
> > >
> > > Joe West
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe West
> > > Synopsys Applications Consultant
> > > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > >
> > > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
56224 From: my1stjeep <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:33am
Subject: Re: vehicle type required to be a member.
Only one I know of can pack his in the back of a full size Truck,
that would be Sharky... actually did you mean before or after a
roll? LOL
Chris
"AzA"----------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@y..., "dirtworks13" <autoprocollision@e...> wrote:
> I OWN A M422A1 MADE BY AMERICAN MOTORS. I HAVE OWNED IT SINCE 1967.
> DOES THIS MEET MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS? IT HAS SEEN SEVERAL
> MODIFICATIONS OVER THE YEARS. HOW MANY JEEP OWNERS CAN PACK THEIR
> JEEP IN THE BACK OF A SHORTBED 1998 DODGE P/U . I HAVE NO CHOICE
BUT
> TRANSPORT IT DUE TO 5.25:1 GEARS. WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER.
THANKS
> LARRY OLEXIEWICZ
56225 From: Jesus Chio - Alloffroad.com <jchio@a...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:37am
Subject: RE: Cooling a 350 (revisited)
Jay where is the sending unit of your water temp gauge???
I have a crate 350, mild roller cam, quadrajet, 30 miles on the engine,
Chevy 6 blade fan with clutch, 160 thermostat, 2 core griffin aluminum
radiator.
the temp outside reached up to 110, 1st gear on the sm420 and low on the
atlas, pedal to the floor an temp would go slightly over 210.
Crusing at 50 mph temp stays between 200 and 210....
Im not sure if its because the fuel temp sending unit is right on the block,
between the hedders and that adds some temp. I have a 14 lb radiator cap
and the overflow bottle never goes over the half level.
Water temp gauge is an autometer ultralite electric if that matters....
50% water, 50% prestone II
thanks in advance!
Jesus Chio
Home account
Chief Editor : www.alloffroad.com
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
CC: AzVJC <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
Fecha: Jueves, 13 de Junio de 2002 09:23 a.m.
Asunto: [az_vjc] Cooling a 350 (revisited)
>I had to share this with the group. I've been fighting a cooling
>problem in my Jeep in the summers ever since I did the Chevy350 swap in
>to it. For those that don't know, I have a CJ7 with Chevy 350, turbo350
>combo. I finally have it to where I no longer worry about cooling
>issues any more, even in 110F heat and in traffic. Here is what I did
>and the results:
>
>1) Stock CJ7 7 blade fan with thermal fan clutch
>2) 4 core radiator from Mepco (not their 3 core high efficiency one).
>3) Custom made fan shroud with 1" plenum and 1/2 covering the depth of
>the fan fins.
>4) 160F high flow thermostat
>5) Stock water pump
>6) 70% water, 30% coolant
>7) 4.56 gears
>8) 38" tires
>
>I find, when the outside air temp is 105F or so, it runs 175 down the
>freeway turning 2,800 rpm. When slowing to idle and in stop and go
>traffic, it runs no more than 180F. So if anyone is considering this
>swap, this is what I have done to solve my cooling problems. And it
>works!
>
>Just FYI to those that may be having issues with this.
>
>--
>----------------------------
>Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
>http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
56226 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:00am
Subject: K&N vs. Paper
All this talk about K&N filters brings up a question. I have a '98 XJ that
I need to put a new filter in, and was wondering if the K&N really produces
some of the implied benefits (more H.P and better mileage), or am I better
off just sticking with the paper filter? I'm talking about the drop in
filter, not an air tube with cone filter.
TIA
Ben Hill
Grape Ape XJ
http://www.bensjeep.homestead.com