Power from unexpected places...

[John_P]

So I know turbo systems for a Jeep have been discussed.

The cons of such systems are..

1. Install...it can get cramped under the hood with a new manifold, turbo, associated piping and the like...

2. Heat...kills. Nuff said.

3. Cooling...most of the time you need a IC to make it work well and run decent boost.

However, I ran into a Camaro this morning that was making use of a new trend in turbos...

Rear-mounting.

Yes, rather than laboring to install a new manifold under the hood, clearing space for your newly acquired snail, would it not be easier to just replace your muffler with a turbo!?!

They already have kits for Taco's...

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/tacoma/tacoma%20turbo2.jpg

So what do you think?

My question is this...

Do you think it would be tough (and safe) to mount a turbo where the muffler resides on a TJ? Seems there is plenty of space up in there for mufflers, air tanks, pumps, etc...why not a turbo?

Stays cooler...no lag (given the right turbo) and no need for an IC.

Discuss

[AZXJ]

I think you'd be pressed for room of the intake pipes.. Notice at the top of the picture there is a pipe that runs back to the engine compartment. Also I'm wondering how much pressure he is actually getting to the intake from the turbo with that length of tube running from the rear of the vehicle..

Dave

[John_P]

From what I read, there is only a 2-3psi drop in pressure from the turbo to the manifold...

here is a pic of someone who booty fabbed a Volvo turbo in the general location I was thinking about..

http://www.dragtimes.com/images/9000-1997-Jeep-Wrangler.jpg

[John_P]

From what I read, there is only a 2-3psi drop in pressure from the turbo to the manifold...

here is a pic of someone who booty fabbed a Volvo turbo in the general location I was thinking about..

http://www.dragtimes.com/images/9000-1997-Jeep-Wrangler.jpg

First of all, there appears to be plenty of room...second, the fit is not as good because the turbo he is using has an integrated wastegate...

I would use a standalone wastegate (TiAL or HKS). Second, I think you can get away with 2-2.5" piping. I have read some articles of vette and F-body owners running around 4-6psi with these setups.

[AZXJ]

let me get this right.. your going to spend $$ on a Turbo, Exhaust mods (that don't leak)
intake tubes (that don't leak) an oiling system for the turbo for 4 to 6 psi of boost that you will loose 2 to 3 psi of due to the length of tube to the intake ?? am I wrong ?
I think you could spend your money and time on other items to improve performance and get better bang for the buck.. Plus what are you going to do about emissions?

Dave

[John_P]

let me get this right.. your going to spend $$ on a Turbo, Exhaust mods (that don't leak)
intake tubes (that don't leak) an oiling system for the turbo for 4 to 6 psi of boost that you will loose 2 to 3 psi of due to the length of tube to the intake ?? am I wrong ?
I think you could spend your money and time on other items to improve performance and get better bang for the buck.. Plus what are you going to do about emissions?

Dave

Nothing is free, Dave...what you are saying? That it cost money to make power? :confused:

But to address the issues you did raise...

First of all, pressure drop is not uncommon when running an IC...You simply adjust the wastegate accordingly so that pressure is in a comfortable range at the intake manifold. Not an issue.

Second, while you are very correct in terms of cost of piping, you are leaving out the fact that you don't have to spend money on an IC or custom exhaust manifold. So I think there may be some cost savings over traditional set-ups.

Third...emissions? Are you kidding me? With a setup like this, it "might" not even be that much of a task to simply change out the turbo for a muffler...test, re-install. Certainly easier than a traditional system...

[AZXJ]

I wasn't saying it was free I was saying that you are going to go through the expense of the mods and still loose 1/2 the psi you intended to gain.. What is the potential of the waste gate ? can you make up for the loss of psi with it's adjustment ?

Having done custom exhaust mods for many of our customers to clear suspension links and other components I am aware of the costs in tubing and labor to install said tubing.
Routing is going to be the issue due to the location of the intake over the exhaust manifold. Either way you are going to have to cross the exhaust at some point to get to the intake.

I think it's a great idea to find horsepower in non traditional ways, don't get me wrong..
I just think that for the ammount of work and the expense involved there are better options. Especially options that aren't going to get beat on while offroading..

Take care
Dave

[John_P]

Good points, Dave. Yes, you can make up for the pressure drop with wastegate adjustments.

In the pic I found, it does not seem like the routing of the piping was an issue, BUT I could see how it may get tricky if you have an aftermarket liftkit. Either way, although it looks totally booty, the pic I provided does suggest that it can be done.

AS far as getting beat on...that would be my chief concern for sure...

[AZXJ]

Well, good luck with this if you decide to do it.. looks like your doing your homework..




Take care
Dave

[John_P]

Some more pics...

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2362000-2362999/2362146_14_full.jpg

Here is the extent of the under the hood piping...

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2362000-2362999/2362146_22_full.jpg

[TanTJJim]

This topic has been beaten to death on another forum (a neon forum, don't laugh:)) On that specific vehicle there is no point whatsoever to doing a remote mounted turbo.

A camaro or similar v8 engine has a much higher exhaust volume than a 4 cyl engine therefore it would be easier to reduce lag by using a smaller a/r turbine housing.

Keep in mind also, that the energy used to spool a turbo is HEAT energy, not just the volume of exhaust gas. Therefore a remote mounted turbo will be much less efficient than one mounted closer to the cylinder head.

Now on a Jeep that is designed for rock crawling (which I assume most of us are into and would use their jeep primarily for this) a turbo I think would be a bad idea. If you use your Jeep more as a dd or a tow rig I could see the benefit. Here's why I don't think a turbo would be good for a rock crawler.

When you're crawing, from my experience, you want alot of throttle control. Too little or too much throttle and you'll bog the engine or just spin the tires. A turbocharger, when it spools up, CAN be like an on/off switch. It's very hard to control how much boost it produces.

That being said, I do believe it would be plausible to use a turbo for a rock crawler IF the crawl ratio was pretty high and at super low speeds you would have a wider range of engine rpm. This makes it a little easier to modulate the boost levels through the accelerator pedal.

To accomplish all this you would need a VERY extensive knowledge or turbochargers and your specific vehicle. The components would have to work almost flawlessly together to achieve a good result. And no, I am not the person with such knowledge. I have turbocharged a vehicle that was not ever intended to have one. It was a great learning experience and I still drive it from time to time but just turbocharging a vehicle is the easy part. Getting it to perform exactly like you want it takes alot of very technical knowledge.

[tywilson88]

i know they have a kit for a vette,

http://imgup-lb.automotive.com:8080/files/1030125.w500.jpg

but i dont see the point. you cant really push that much boost into the little 4.0, unless it is stroked, and it looks like you would loose a pretty good aamount of ground clearance. especially after you made a custom skid plate.

[TRLR8TDTJ]

Nothing beats opening your hood and seeing this

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o160/trlr8tdtj/turbo.jpg

I really like the 505 performance kit. It looks really simple to install. I think you will have to install IC if you want good performance out of it. It is just too hot out here. The stroker engine is about the same price in new quadratrec. My only problem is my engine is real tired. I could put v8 in mine for same price as stroker engine.

http://shop.505performance.com/displayProductDocument.hg?productId=2

Kyle

[ademster]

this has been done for a long time... this is the only way to mount them in corvettes..


anyhow... I dont see the reason to turbo a jeep when we need the instant torque and power, I woulkd suggest a roots style blower. or small pro charger.

[danno]

I have seen this done, and done well on Corvettes, Camaros, Tacomas, and Escalade/Yukon/Tahoes...

I would not recommend it for a Jeep that sees any reasonable amount of off-road time... Why?

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13219&stc=1&d=1187909421

See the red circle? Thats the Intake Air Filter and intake for the engine... That filter would get clogged pretty damn quick by dust and dirt, not even to mention mud...

Also, my Lexus RX300 can cross the Aqua Fria up at Table Mesa even with a reasonable amount of water running... With this setup, would have a hard time crossing even where the Lexus can cross. Even if you extended a 3rd pipe to get the air filter up and out of the way, Turbo Chargers are not meant to be submerged in water while they run...

[Markos]

John:

You'll want to talk to someone who has actually seen the benefits of a remote mounted turbo in a 4.0L application. Hit up cagedxj (http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/member.php?u=1283) on www.colorado4x4.org.

Originally posted by cagedxj:
The myth of turbos not working offroad is due to improperly sized turbos. I am running a turbo setup on my XJ buggy right now. I have full spool by 1200 RPM with a max boost of 12 PSI if not controlled. It works perfect, and it is not at all complicated. I did a remote mount that in its self is replacing the muffler. I use a blow off valve to control pressure when I lift off the throttle fast and a manual boost controller. Thats it. The power is equal to that of a small block chevy.


Originally posted by cagedxj:

I used some 24# injectors intended for a 5.0L ford. I have been running a wideband O2 setup from Austraila to monitor it. It was 80 bucks for the reader and it uses a 5 wire O2 from a newer Honda(junk yard part). I have an FMU to add to it but with the bigger injectors I dont need it. I have found that it goes rich too early with the bigger injectors so I think with an adjustable MAP I could correct it. I havent seen the need for an additional injector since I am only running low boost. Fordged pistons are not necessary until you crank up the boost. Be careful boost-itis is worse than inch-itis!

For the manifold I would use the stock one with a short pipe made for mandrel bends running to the turbo mounted somewhere up front. Mine is a "never going to work" remote mount at the back. I use it instead of a muffler. But my XJ is more buggy than XJ so I am kinda cheating too. I left the pics big so you can see them well. If it pisses you off let me know and Ill shink them up.


http://img144.echo.cx/img144/4742/indy0515turbo4so.png

More Images:
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9036/dscf02618jt.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2649/dscf02679ph.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7050/dscf03172ln.jpg

Found in this thread:
http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=42045

[TanTJJim]

John:

You'll want to talk to someone who has actually seen the benefits of a remote mounted turbo in a 4.0L application. Hit up cagedxj (http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/member.php?u=1283) on www.colorado4x4.org.

That is actually a pretty decent setup. The turbo he's running can be found in most junkyards for under $100 too, same turbo I use on my car, a Garrett T3 off of the older turbo dodges, daytonas, lebarons, caravans, etc.

Of course this is on a buggy which is definitely a dedicated rock crawler. For a dd or even something that sees any kind of use on a public road a turbo that small would KILL higher rpm power. And by higher rpm I would guess anything over 2500-3000 rpms. The downside of being able to spool a turbo at 1200 rpms is that there is so much exhaust restriction the engine can't breath at higher rpms.

However, remote mounting the turbo might actually help reduce the higher rpm power loss. This guy definitely did his homework. Very cool setup. Once again though, a turbo project on a Jeep is not for the faint of heart. You think your Jeep breaks alot now......

[xjstocker]

http://www.ststurbo.com/ these guys do remote tubo setups. cool stuff. not interested in doing this but am keeping the options open. currently going to do megasquirt on the xj to get better driveability and get better gas mileage.

[tywilson88]

that is one sick a*s xj

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

You can do the 505 for $3800 or a Avenger for $4500 or just do it right a Hemi for $8500..I have thought about all of this and a 5.7 would make perfect sense..Yes it is more a turbo or supercharged I-6 could nenver be as good as a hemi.....

.02


Jason

[AZXJ]

John:

You'll want to talk to someone who has actually seen the benefits of a remote mounted turbo in a 4.0L application. Hit up cagedxj (http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/member.php?u=1283) on www.colorado4x4.org.

Originally posted by cagedxj:



Originally posted by cagedxj:



http://img144.echo.cx/img144/4742/indy0515turbo4so.png

More Images:
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9036/dscf02618jt.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2649/dscf02679ph.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7050/dscf03172ln.jpg

Found in this thread:
http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=42045

Chris really knows his stuff.. Big diffrence here tho.. he's running a XJuggy.. he's got plenty of room unlike the underside of the TJ's..

Dave

[Markos]

Chris really knows his stuff.. Big diffrence here tho.. he's running a XJuggy.. he's got plenty of room unlike the underside of the TJ's..


After reviewing his setup, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to put a TJ turbo in the same spot. You could probably run the return back through the cab. You'd need to remove the carpet in the rear, and would probably need to cut some cooling vents in the rear tub. Maybe box in the turbo on one side, and the air intake on the other... who knows. Seems like a lot of work to me...

[Keith Haw]

Wouldn't mounting a turbo where it could possibly suck water into the intake be a bad thing?
Keith

[Wayco]

Wouldn't mounting a turbo where it could possibly suck water into the intake be a bad thing?
Keith

This was posted on the first page.....

I have seen this done, and done well on Corvettes, Camaros, Tacomas, and Escalade/Yukon/Tahoes...

I would not recommend it for a Jeep that sees any reasonable amount of off-road time... Why?

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13219&stc=1&d=1187909421

See the red circle? Thats the Intake Air Filter and intake for the engine... That filter would get clogged pretty damn quick by dust and dirt, not even to mention mud...

Also, my Lexus RX300 can cross the Aqua Fria up at Table Mesa even with a reasonable amount of water running... With this setup, would have a hard time crossing even where the Lexus can cross. Even if you extended a 3rd pipe to get the air filter up and out of the way, Turbo Chargers are not meant to be submerged in water while they run...

Maybe a sticky asking everyone to read the thread before posting would be a good idea? No, that wouldn't work, it would be missed at the front of the thread....:rolleyes: