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amber.hodge
08-19-2007, 07:38 AM
I think it would be great if better use was made of this forum. We're very interested in learning more about all aspects of jeeping - from wrenching to trail safety, trail wrenching, winching, the peat moss stuff, etc.....
Would like to see people with some free time and knowledge post up.....I look in here fairly often and never see anything new... :(

I see ticklers for interest but rarely classes just posted up - we'd likely go if it wasn't on drill.

terron gregg
08-19-2007, 08:13 AM
id go

Antman
08-19-2007, 08:33 AM
You know Amber, your right. How about some technical write ups? I have a few I can post from different people. Think I'll give it a try.

I know it says workshops but what the heck.

amber.hodge
08-19-2007, 08:34 AM
Wow don't say that too loud :D
What I would like the most is you knowledgable ones start posting up seminars when you have time. I for one learn by doing - I can read something all day and all night and not get the learning experience I would have gotten by getting in there and getting my hands dirty. :D

Antman
08-19-2007, 08:38 AM
Wow don't say that too loud :D
What I would like the most is you knowledgable ones start posting up seminars when you have time. I for one learn by doing - I can read something all day and all night and not get the learning experience I would have gotten by getting in there and getting my hands dirty. :D

Yea but, I have learned a lot reading all of other people's doing's. I'll show you what I mean.

Actually just go to Stu's site and look at all the tech stuff!


www.stu-offroad.com

amber.hodge
08-19-2007, 08:41 AM
That is a great site - I can learn a bit from seeing...Even in school if I don't actually do it, I cannot learn....I used to have to write notes in class and then go home and rewrite notes 2-3 times over again just to retain while in college. Its a PITA, but I do learn more by doing - I think adding some technical workshop write ups would be a great thing in this forum and I also hope to see some physical workshops like what Hunter has held in the past as well as others pop up. :D

TRLR8TDTJ
08-19-2007, 09:49 AM
You can always take jeep apart for fun. When you get it apart put it back together and replace all the things you broke by taking it apart.:)

Over time you will get experience in this stuff from just going out wheeling, and upgrading stuff on jeep. Experience is something that will come with time. Most of the time when I am going to upgrade something I will do search it online, and you can find all the info you need. If you are mechanically in clined you will catch on. if not you will save money by just paying someone, or having wrenching party. There seems to be several people that like working on stuff on their free time to help people out.

I think the idea of winching, and trail safety is something to have class about. The last thing you want to do is kill someone by unsafe winching. Over the past I have seen several classes for this. I have even seen writeups in magazines about winching, and there is a lot of good info out there.

Kyle

Antman
08-19-2007, 10:08 AM
Check out the "YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF" forum! Joe still needs to

increase the size of it though.

mingoglia
08-19-2007, 10:14 AM
Unfortunately most of the people that have contributed in the past technically really don't come around anymore... most have left because of all the offtopic bickering that tends to happen here. :( Typically the threads that ask something Jeep related rarely get any responses. The VJC unfortunately has become softcore and non Jeep related. I'm not saying this to be an arse or point fingers... I'm just throwing out the way I see it. I believe Joe may want to consider some sort of quota where you can only post in Offtopic once for every on topic post you post.... IMHO.

Mike

russ1688
08-19-2007, 10:22 AM
Amber,

Why don't you post a tech write-up on the steps needed to get your Jeep back on the road after the flooding? That rescue sounded like it was a great example of club members pulling together and doing what they do best to get it going again. That could be a valuable technical doc all by itself.

I know I've thought of what I'd need to do, but it would be nice to compare that to a real life example.

Fire Ball
08-19-2007, 11:13 AM
You can always take jeep apart for fun. When you get it apart put it back together and replace all the things you broke by taking it apart.:)

Kyle


I agree. Take today for instance. The wife is out of town and I was bored so I took my skid plate off to replace the tranny mount. It was totally busted, including the little bar that is supposed to hold it when the rubber breaks.

While I was i there I cleaned the skid plate. I used a grinder to grind all the rust off of the plate and the frame where dirt and water had gotten trapped.

A couple coats of Rustoleum paint, install the new mount, bolt it up, and I am done.

I love to do this sorta stuff unfortunately I don't have the funds to fix all the broken things or fab all the things I want to.

I want to build a belly up skid, gas tank skid, and a long arm 4 link, with new axles. SIGH

Billy 4 hp
08-19-2007, 11:24 AM
Unfortunately most of the people that have contributed in the past technically really don't come around anymore... most have left because of all the offtopic bickering that tends to happen here. :( Typically the threads that ask something Jeep related rarely get any responses. The VJC unfortunately has become softcore and non Jeep related. I'm not saying this to be an arse or point fingers... I'm just throwing out the way I see it. I believe Joe may want to consider some sort of quota where you can only post in Offtopic once for every on topic post you post.... IMHO.

Mike

Amen....

SavageSun4x4
08-19-2007, 12:27 PM
Unfortunately most of the people that have contributed in the past technically really don't come around anymore... most have left because of all the offtopic bickering that tends to happen here. :(

Typically the threads that ask something Jeep related rarely get any responses.
Mike

I don't think 'OT' bickering has anything to do with it. If bickering over global warming over in OT bothers you, then stay away from OT and topics that are called "Global Warming".

I think the reason why and you stated it clearly is: "Typically the threads that ask something Jeep related rarely get any responses." I post a LOT of technical write-ups and I have seen many that NEVER get any response at all and even more just get a few. No or little discussion, questions or comments.

Then there are the questions on here that generate a response or 2 and often its nothing other than a one word or sentence.

Examples: What kind of Optima battery should I get, Red, Yellow, Blue top??

Responses: 1) Red 2) Yellow if you have a winch. 1) I have a Red top and a winch and its been on my Jeep since the I hauled the 3 Wise Men out of TM with my rig, yellow tops are a waste of money you idiot. Bicker, bicker, bicker.

Then the thread degenerates into a P ing contest. In that time NOT one single person ever described the advantages or disadvantageous of each battery and why one might work best for various situations. If you do, and I have, MANY times, it is HIGHLY unlikely you will get any response at all.


As above only: Thinking of buying a locker, OX or ARB. Typical response is one word and then sooner or later its "my cousins, uncles, brother has a friend at the plant who had a OX/ARB and it broke first time out, I would NEVER own one.

[ I know quite well since I have provided in depth answers to both of the above threads]

Tech write-ups: Look at Stu's, mine and others. Spend hours doing it, stopping to take pics, do the write up, go thru the steps, post it to a web site, post it on the forum and if you lucky there will be a few comments about it.

Views to posts ratio: If you hit 10% of the number of views the thread has done well.

Sometimes I think why waste the time doing a tech write-up, pictures and install steps if it does not generate discussion, good or bad? That said, my website gets about 43 - 48k hits per month, Stu's even more. So its not like folks are going there seeing it and reading it. I cannot speak for Stu or others but I like and enjoy the discussion of the why/why not did you do and chose what you did. In fact it helps ME learn more. So much so that there have been discussions that have led me to go back and make changes or even install a different part than I had originally.

Also a lot of folks ask a question and do receive a definitive answer. BUT it is NOT the answer they want to hear in spite of the fact you provided the correct answer that solves the issue. Then he wants to argue with you about your solution and why it won't work...

mingoglia
08-19-2007, 12:35 PM
I agree Don. I think we're definitaly on the same page.

This brings up something I did a few weeks ago as an example. I had to pull a large tree out in my yard. Since we had the debate on Amsteel vs Masterpull awhile back (particularly the discussion on stored energy) I decided to attach my Amsteel Blue extension rope to the base of this tree. I hooked the other end up to my truck... and put a bung in the front of the rope just to test if it had an affect (ie fly through my windshield). I also wanted to learn how to splice which is another reason I wanted to make the rope fail. Well, the rope failed and I took pics of the outcome... but I haven't been motivated to post a write-up of the outcome because I really don't want to start another pissing.

Mike

Wayco
08-19-2007, 01:00 PM
Oh boy, never thought I would have to disagree with Don and Mike about something I hold sacred in this forum, but here goes.
Discussion on any topic, regardless if it is mechanical or safety related should be shared on the forum. Why would it matter if it starts a pissing contest? That's how we learn.
Mike, I can't believe you would withhold safety information just because you don't want to hear what we think! :confused: There was a lot of information shared in the threads that were started regarding the failure of my winch line. It doesn't bother me a bit that some members drew different conclusions from the data was shared.
Don, technical info. is specific to a particular problem, if only a few people have that problem, you will only get a few responses. Do you need "atta guys" to share your knowledge? If no one is responding to your write-up, maybe it's because no one has had that problem. I use Stu's website extensively, and seldom post anything technical here because it's already been well covered there.
Bottom line is that our forum works when we talk about our experiences, please don't withhold what you are doing just because you don't like what MIGHT or might not be said about it.

Fire Ball
08-19-2007, 02:08 PM
I agree with Wayne. I have learned very quickly how to filter out the crap on here and I know who knows, and who is just blowing smoke. I simply filter out the garbage and find some very valuable info here.

Thanks to all who have shared valuable information. You know who you are. To the rest, sorry were you saying something :D

Well enough of this I gotta go rescue Morgan at the coves.

SavageSun4x4
08-19-2007, 03:05 PM
Oh boy, never thought I would have to disagree with Don and Mike about something I hold sacred in this forum, but here goes.
Discussion on any topic, regardless if it is mechanical or safety related should be shared on the forum. Why would it matter if it starts a pissing contest? That's how we learn.
Mike, I can't believe you would withhold safety information just because you don't want to hear what we think! :confused: There was a lot of information shared in the threads that were started regarding the failure of my winch line. It doesn't bother me a bit that some members drew different conclusions from the data was shared.
Don, technical info. is specific to a particular problem, if only a few people have that problem, you will only get a few responses. Do you need "atta guys" to share your knowledge? If no one is responding to your write-up, maybe it's because no one has had that problem. I use Stu's website extensively, and seldom post anything technical here because it's already been well covered there.
Bottom line is that our forum works when we talk about our experiences, please don't withhold what you are doing just because you don't like what MIGHT or might not be said about it.
Wayne, not sure we are disagreeing very much at all.

Yes, a lot of times a P ing contest can produce lots of good info. Certainly with me, It makes me do some research, check my sources and dig a bit deeper.

I think Mike and I both were really talking about the times it goes beyond or crosses the line of good manners and the attack becomes the attack of the individual rather than the issue. I can assure you as a Moderator you see a lot of stuff that crosses that line and does so in a destructive fashion. And I am not talking the occasional jab...

Doesn't apply: There is very little that is posted on here or on any other board that does not apply. If nothing else in principal.

Sure you may not have D44's therefore changing the R&P does not apply to your D30/35/60...Or does it? They all have R&P, you might upgrade someday, who knows and to the person who thinks the tech talk does not apply its truly their shortsightedness. CJ/YJ/TJ or JK, from mild to wild I have learned from all of them.

At the trailhead I have looked at Jeeps with few mods compared to mine and I cannot say how many times I have walked away after talking to a novice with a few mods that I have learned and made a mod to my Jeep as a result. Maybe its just me but I figure I can learn something from anybody.

The fact that Stu or anyone else has done it, does not make the the only or best solution. That is just the way someone approached it at that point in time with what was available then. So don't hold back if you use a different method, tools or parts.

Wayco
08-19-2007, 04:15 PM
Thanks for the clarification Don.
With all the info. on the internet, I have to choose carefully what I spend my time reading. When someone posts up a thread about a D-35 gear build, I probably wouldn't bother to read or comment. The thread on "Pitman arm beef" ended up covering crossover/highsteer. It was relevant to me and got a lot of posts. Gasman even posted up his setup on an XJ.
So I see what you mean in this regard. But if Kyle had not started that thread, we would have all lost out on an opportunity to SHARE INFORMATION.
I know that as a moderator, you are exposed to a lot of negative crap. I'm grateful to you for keeping it out of our forum, really I am. This is not what I was talking about. If Mike (Mingoglia) doesn't post up a thread about his winchline experiment because he doesn't want to start a dispute, then we all lose out on that info. If Kyle (TRLR8TDTJ) had not started the "Pitman arm beef" thread because he was afraid what we would say about his bronco pitman arm, we would have all lost out on that great thread. It's all about SHARING INFORMATION.

WalterD
08-19-2007, 04:43 PM
I have posted many questions Jeep related, mostly CJ. I have gotten responses from several people. All have been helpful in some way. But the responses I get, I use as a search from others. Most responses are opinions. Some people such as myself get sidetracked easily. It's the Internet (thanks Mr. Gore) use the information wisely.
I would like to see more technical write-ups, but realistically do a search in goggle and you will find MANY links.

Rogue XJ
08-19-2007, 05:05 PM
free time? whassat? :)

I have to admit it takes longer to do projects and take informative pics, then reduce file sizes, then add text... whew... but getting feedback on the "write ups" I've done (via slideshows) makes it go down a little smoother.

see Cherokee Rear Bumper Build, parts one and two, so far...

if anyone wants to chime in with a thread link.. feel free :D

but yes... write ups good... experience shared by others... priceless.

1BLKJP
08-19-2007, 06:09 PM
The best place to learn about winching, peat sorb, trail fixes etc.... Is to actually be on the trail and learning from what other people have to say or do. It's hard to explain a trail fix appropriately when you are in a parking lot. When your axle is 3 or 4 feet off the ground and you have to change a shaft or re-seat a bead it's a whole differnt ball game than a "Seminar"

So instead of having 101 classes everyone should just get out and wheel with experienced people and do a little OJT (On the Job Training). :D

TRLR8TDTJ
08-19-2007, 06:13 PM
I also say get out there and break your junk. That is the best way to learn trail repairs.:)

Kyle

SavageSun4x4
08-20-2007, 08:48 AM
The best place to learn about winching, peat sorb, trail fixes etc.... Is to actually be on the trail and learning from what other people have to say or do. It's hard to explain a trail fix appropriately when you are in a parking lot. When your axle is 3 or 4 feet off the ground and you have to change a shaft or re-seat a bead it's a whole differnt ball game than a "Seminar"

So instead of having 101 classes everyone should just get out and wheel with experienced people and do a little OJT (On the Job Training). :D


I also say get out there and break your junk. That is the best way to learn trail repairs.:)

Kyle
That is the old axe: "those who can do, those who can't teach"

While I mostly agree with you on this it does suffer some drawbacks. Many things in the system can be installed 180 degrees out just as easy as correctly. This can often lead to further damage and or very expensive repairs.

Broke on the trail often equals a *** is that and how do we get it fixed. The unknowing more often than not have no earthly idea of which way to turn and sitting on the trail being broke only elicits a response to get me and my Jeep the hell out of here ASAP.

That said then it has to beg the question of where does one start in the learning process. Seminars, classes, books, and magazines serve this purpose.

Making the assumption that everything is so easy a caveman can do it might well have worked in the days of a caveman. To just hit the trail and drive till it breaks then assume you will learn to fix it trail-side might turn a 30 min trail fix into a 4 hour nightmare for somebody.

ArizonaXJ
08-23-2007, 08:21 PM
So, based on what I just read here; do you guys think anyone would want to know how I swapped out my 90 amp alternator for a 136 amp one, to include part numbers and the mods needed to accomplish?
It was based off of something that I found here but, I just did it a few weeks.....okay, a couple of months ago so my information is new and up to date.
Unfortunately though, I didn't take any pics at the time. I could probably do it when I either do the TJ or the wife's XJ.

amber.hodge
08-23-2007, 08:24 PM
Ben is all over it. Wants to swap it out anyway....I'm just smiling and nodding and saying "sure honey"

GRUNT
08-23-2007, 08:42 PM
I love any information I can get! I am like a UNICEF kid on rice... I agree, it is the internet so take it with a grain of salt. As for here, I know who the hardballers are and I love reading anything you guys say. I just don't always respond and most of the time Don, it is above my head or not YJ related. In fact I went out today to look under my hood to find out what alternator I have. 90amp... I wanna learn about your swap!!!

RokNRich
08-23-2007, 08:44 PM
The best place to learn about winching, peat sorb, trail fixes etc.... Is to actually be on the trail and learning from what other people have to say or do. It's hard to explain a trail fix appropriately when you are in a parking lot. When your axle is 3 or 4 feet off the ground and you have to change a shaft or re-seat a bead it's a whole differnt ball game than a "Seminar"

So instead of having 101 classes everyone should just get out and wheel with experienced people and do a little OJT (On the Job Training). :D



Agreed


I also say get out there and break your junk. That is the best way to learn trail repairs.:)

Kyle

Agreed


That is the old axe: "those who can do, those who can't teach"

While I mostly agree with you on this it does suffer some drawbacks. Many things in the system can be installed 180 degrees out just as easy as correctly. This can often lead to further damage and or very expensive repairs.

Broke on the trail often equals a *** is that and how do we get it fixed. The unknowing more often than not have no earthly idea of which way to turn and sitting on the trail being broke only elicits a response to get me and my Jeep the hell out of here ASAP.

That said then it has to beg the question of where does one start in the learning process. Seminars, classes, books, and magazines serve this purpose.

Making the assumption that everything is so easy a caveman can do it might well have worked in the days of a caveman. To just hit the trail and drive till it breaks then assume you will learn to fix it trail-side might turn a 30 min trail fix into a 4 hour nightmare for somebody.

I'm going to pre-emptively edit this post, even though I don't think you can ban me anymore, what I was about to say wasn't very nice, ;)








So, based on what I just read here; do you guys think anyone would want to know how I swapped out my 90 amp alternator for a 136 amp one, to include part numbers and the mods needed to accomplish?
It was based off of something that I found here but, I just did it a few weeks.....okay, a couple of months ago so my information is new and up to date.
Unfortunately though, I didn't take any pics at the time. I could probably do it when I either do the TJ or the wife's XJ.

Check this thread out.

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=10393

No need to reinvent the wheel, but if you found things that needed fixed, sure

writeup:
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2004/jeepalt/

SavageSun4x4
08-24-2007, 08:55 AM
So, based on what I just read here; do you guys think anyone would want to know how I swapped out my 90 amp alternator for a 136 amp one, to include part numbers and the mods needed to accomplish?
It was based off of something that I found here but, I just did it a few weeks.....okay, a couple of months ago so my information is new and up to date.
Unfortunately though, I didn't take any pics at the time. I could probably do it when I either do the TJ or the wife's XJ.
YES! Albeit I like to see pics n stuff and I think most folks do, not everyone has a website to post to or a handy digital camera to work with.

I read nearly every install or "looky what I did" thread to gain some insight.

I will also be the first to say that from time to time the install is not worth the time or effort to even read. But those usually go something like this:

WOW, put in a new upgraded alternator this past weekend. Gawd it was hot in the garage me 'n Crossthread drank nearly a case of Bud light we got down at the Chug 'n Go on 2112 E Central across from the Broke Mountain Strip club. They got Bud Light on sale for $15.99 a case.

New alternator really puts out the juice, see ya on the trail ;)

I feel any write up done that contains valuable info, parts numbers, costs, time to do etc is useful.

Sometimes I see a write up that I think is especially valuable to a LOT of folks and when I do I will ask permission to post it on my web site like this one:

http://www.savagesun4x4.com/iWeb/SavageSun%204x4/TJ%20OBA%20under%20$100,.html

XJ, you always make a valuable contribution, don't stop.

Hivemind
08-24-2007, 10:42 AM
They got Bud Light on sale for $15.99 a case.


That's a lot isn't it?

sorry BTT:D

At my level of the game i'm afraid I don't have any worthy comment except "Thanks for taking the time" or "Nice job"

But you can be sure I read every word of every post! Do I think I can learn enough from a post to fix my Jeep on the trail? Hell no!! I do it to try to immerse myself in the Jeep world and try to retain some tidbits here and there so when I do speak I don't sound totally ignorant. I ignore the silly bits or add to them when I can with respect of course.

Rest assured that your posts and pics and websites are appreciated by me and I imagine lots of other folks like me

Keep up the good work!! Thanks for everything!!

ArizonaXJ
08-24-2007, 04:49 PM
Okay, here it goes.......and yes, I know that to some degree I am reinventing the wheel when I post about my alternator but let's be honest, stores change part numbers from time to time. Everyone has different experiences doing things. That is called knowledge, and knowledge is a powerful tool. I know that it takes me a lot longer to do something for the first time when I have never torn into a particular system before. The subsequent times, things go much, much faster. Why? because I know that if I remove part "A" right off the bat and get it out of my way, it will save me an hour getting to part "B". However, that first time I didn't know that spending 10 minutes removing part "A" would save me an hour over all instead of working around it.
I remember when my wife's Hyundai blew it's timing belt years ago. I never worked on a Hyundai before. The shops wanted too much money to do it, couple of hundred bucks. So, I went to Checker, bought a Haynes or Chilton's manual and the belt, cost? about $25.00. When I cracked open the book to read up and check for differences between it and other vehicles that I have worked on, I could have died. It started off with "Remove engine as previous described in chapter..." Well, I knew that I wasn't going to do that! I found an easier and quicker way. However, it took me some time to complete as it was my first time with this system. Now, bring me an 87 Hyundai and watch me go!
It is these little "short cuts" and things that draw me to mechanical minded people and the threads like that. You have the experience & knowledge in something that I don't. Who is going to be faster?
How many times has someone told you to go to XYZ, ask for ABC part number, It'll go right on....then you do it and find out that ABC part number has been changed to HIJ2 and the ABC that you have has a slightly different bolt pattern or something like that?
I don't know about you but, I don't like multiple trips to the parts store....case in point: This week I changed the oil in the TJ and the wife's XJ. Decided to go with bigger oil filters (bigger means more capacity, more media to catch dirt and grime, right?) well, the Jeeps call for a Fram PH16 (shorty) so I bought 2 Fram PH8As.....well, the 05 TJ went on with NO problems. However, the wife' XJ had a Fram PH3895 on it. The PH8A wouldn't go. So I go back and get a PH5. Forgot to check gasket placement. Got home, no good when I really looked at the gasket. I said screw it, told the wife to take the PH5 back, bring me a PH3895 so that I could be done with it. I WILL find the bigger filter and get it on there. I just didn't have time nor wanted to the other evening.
Now, how many other people can I save extra trips to the parts store for with this info???
I'll post my alternator swap up with part numbers, etc later or over the weekend. I have to get ready for the M&G :)

SavageSun4x4
08-24-2007, 06:18 PM
Okay, here it goes.......and yes, I know that to some degree I am reinventing the wheel when I post about my alternator

BINGO. If we didn't post just because someone else has done then Stu, me and a lot of other folks are wasting out time putting stuff on a website.

And, there are more than one way to do many jobs. Then there is the tricks, you know the stuff that is not in the FSM. In the computer business we call them "hidden features" and there are a LOT in everything you do.

Thanks XJ ;)

Steve
08-25-2007, 09:08 AM
Rest assured that your posts and pics and websites are appreciated by me and I imagine lots of other folks like me
Keep up the good work!! Thanks for everything!!

And by me. A lot of the info posted don't apply to me but I will read them and try to see if there is something I can learn from it. You never know when it might come in handy.:D

amber.hodge
08-25-2007, 09:13 AM
I have read a lot of the posts in this thread. I see people suggesting just to get on the job training on the trail.
That is great.....but what about if we don't have someone that is proficient in that area on a run....and what about creating more experienced jeepers instead of causing us noobs to constantly rely on having someone of extensive experience on a run....

I just see the need for technical workshops with people of knowledge teaching. If that knowledge is not shared, once that person leaves or is gone, it is worthless because it goes with them. Why not help the noobs or those inexperienced in those areas learn somewhere other than the chance of seeing it on the trail.

Also, on the trail, people are fixing rigs as fast as possible to continue on.....I don't see that being the best instructional experience....A time and place where everyone isn't in a hurry and every step can be explained and alternative methods would be best.