Save Bumble Bee

[nascarwld]

Just got this info, that the state is trying to reroute I-17 thru Bumble Bee, go check out the web site, I will have flyers on the Crownking run.

http://www.savebumblebee.org/seemap.html

[amber.hodge]

You can click on the links on the website to write the people that are trying to do this. I wrote the following:

I am writing regarding the proposed reroute of the I17 Highway. Being an Arizona resident and native, I have grown to see quite a bit of the natural beauty and historical attributes be cast away or demolished for the sake of modern convenience. My husband has to drive up the I17 from Phoenix to Flagstaff twice a month for military drill, and though the I17 is slow at times; neither of us would want to see town sites such as Bumble Bee go the wayside to save him an hour of drive time. I think that widening the I17 is a good plan in parts, and I do understand that because of the mountainside construction of parts of the I17 that it would not be able to be widened and instead would need to be moved to create 4 lanes of commute in each direction. I do not feel that sacrificing our historical town sites is the answer. We owe our children something better than 8 lane highways. We owe our children to be afforded the chance to experience history in real life instead of just in books. Please reconsider this venture.

[GRUNT]

What huge support do they have? Perhaps people who already live next to the existing i-17 and want it moved?!

[amber.hodge]

commuters, vacationers, truckers, etc...

[heavyman]

I am sending my letter this weekend. Thanks for the info. I would expect that environmental groups that have been trying to close off recreational access for OHV around the state would want to prevent such major devastation to the canyon!

[rsliman]

i like bumblebee, anyone know the history of it?

[amber.hodge]

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/az-bumblebee.html

Here is a forum that looks very much like ours on ghost towns
http://forums.ghosttowns.com/showthread.php?t=13840

Some pics on this site
http://www.ghosttowngallery.com/

[Kiwi]

Well, I guess I might be in the minority. There's really nothing in Bumble Bee. Sure, a freeway would kill some trails out there, but, it actualy might be good for the area with new gas stations, etc.. Could even bring Bumble Bee back alive... Heck - might even bring Cleator back to life.

[Keith Haw]

Thanks for the heads up.
This is what I just sent them, hope you don't mind that I changed your letter a little Amber.

I am writing regarding the proposed reroute of the I17 Highway. Being an Arizona resident and native, in the 55+ years I have been on this earth, I have seen quite a bit of the natural beauty and historical attributes be cast away or demolished for the sake of modern convenience. I drive a truck for a living and travel I17 on a fairly regular basis. I am also an avid off-roader and backcountry explorer. I have seen I17 on good days and bad. I think that widening the I17 is a good plan in parts, and I do understand that because of the mountainside construction of parts of the I17 that it would not be able to be widened and instead would need to be moved to create 4 lanes of commute in each direction, but I do not feel that sacrificing our historical town sites is the answer. We owe our children something better than 8 lane highways. We owe our children to be afforded the chance to experience beauty and history of our great state in real life instead of just in books. Please reconsider this venture.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Keith E. Haw

[GRUNT]

Well, I guess I might be in the minority. There's really nothing in Bumble Bee. Sure, a freeway would kill some trails out there, but, it actualy might be good for the area with new gas stations, etc.. Could even bring Bumble Bee back alive... Heck - might even bring Cleator back to life.

This will in no way be good! It would destroy the history of the area!!!!!!!! When most of us do these jeep runs we enjoy the wheeling as well as the views and appreciate the isolated, unmolested history of these areas. Who needs another damn gas station?! They are like Walgreens and Walmarts, on every damn corner. They just get run down and crappy and would be an eye sore, like um the freeway itself!!!!! I understand your optimism but I think this is a terrible idea... My 2 cents.

[Kiwi]

Well, dunno. Progress I guess. I like open, unspoiled areas as much as anyone else. But, remember, in 20 years time or so, everything from Carefree Hwy north to the county lines (and probably beyond) will pretty much be another Mesa, which means there will be people living even further north of the city, and will need good freeways. As it is now, a Sunday commute back into Phoenix is usualy a nightmare.

Time to buy land in the area, just in case. Goverments always tend to do what is 'easist and cheapest' nowadays

[zman]

I am all for this. That stretch of freeway is dangerous. Most of the I17 accidents are in this area. If there is a fatality the only northern route may be closed for 2-6 hours.

zman

[amber.hodge]

Well, dunno. Progress I guess. I like open, unspoiled areas as much as anyone else. But, remember, in 20 years time or so, everything from Carefree Hwy north to the county lines (and probably beyond) will pretty much be another Mesa, which means there will be people living even further north of the city, and will need good freeways. As it is now, a Sunday commute back into Phoenix is usualy a nightmare.

Time to buy land in the area, just in case. Goverments always tend to do what is 'easist and cheapest' nowadays

BOOOOO! :mad: This is not progress - it is DIGRESS just so poeple can save 20-30 minutes of drive time.

[amber.hodge]

I am all for this. That stretch of freeway is dangerous. Most of the I17 accidents are in this area. If there is a fatality the only northern route may be closed for 2-6 hours.

zman

There are plenty of ways to get around without using the I17 in several areas. The worst jams are at the entrance to Phoenix, and if you simply take the happy valley road exit and go east - you get somewhere. Also, I believe through Anthem there is access to the valley...?

[zman]

There are plenty of ways to get around without using the I17 in several areas. The worst jams are at the entrance to Phoenix, and if you simply take the happy valley road exit and go east - you get somewhere. Also, I believe through Anthem there is access to the valley...?

I'm talking about the accidents near the bumble bee exit coming down the hill. 4 hour delays are not unheard of. Going thru Camp Verde and Payson is the only alternative. Also the verticle climb in this area creates a nice road jam when one trucker going 25mph decides to pass another one going 24mph.

As far as alternative further south if you can reach Care Free hwy or New River you can always go east over to Cave Creek Rd.

BTW, some of the buildings in Bumble Bee are not even relics. They were built to attract tourists which did not work.

zman

[amber.hodge]

Response from the people I emailed - I would have EVERYONE email them and ask to be added to the study!!!

Thank you for your interest in the I-17 corridor. There are no current plans or funding to re-route or otherwise alter I-17. There are, however, a number of studies underway, including environmental studies and public involvement, to identify areas that need improvement and examine alternatives to accomplish those improvements. We welcome your participation in those studies. With your permission, we will add you to the contact lists for the studies. Please let me know and I will see that you are added.



Thank you


Kristin Darr-Bornstein
KDA
4545 E Shea Blvd, Ste 108

[RokNRich]

I think zman and kiwi are on the right track. The road needs fixed.

:)

[amber.hodge]

And they may not destroy bumble bee - they are doing a study, so if you want to be involved go to the link provided and simply email them stating you want to be involved on the study.

[RokNRich]

Well, in that case, there is no reason to panic then, is there ?

[amber.hodge]

Yep, no reason to panic :D sky not falling yet :D Just get involved on the study group and you can have a little bit of input :D

[DREDnot]

Bumble bee was born to take advantage of the black canyon stage road.
The buildings there are not that old and the ghost town-y ones are fake.
The town died when they built I17 up on the bluff.

[Hardline]

Bumble bee was born to take advantage of the black canyon stage road.
The buildings there are not that old and the ghost town-y ones are fake.
The town died when they built I17 up on the bluff.

Yep: http://www.ghosttowngallery.com/htme/bumble.htm

And quoted from: http://www.legendsofamerica.com/az-bumblebee.html

Though the original road through Bumble Bee was crude, it led to the mines, which the many prospectors were determined to reach. When a stage was established with a stop at Snyder’s ranch, Snyder built a small hostelry and stable to accommodate to the travelers. Then, when gold was discovered in the adjacent Bradshaw Mountains, prospectors were crawling in nearby Bumble Bee Creek.

Soon, enough people had arrived in the area that a post office was established in February, 1879, taking its name from nearby Bumble Bee Creek, so named because early travelers said that the Indians were as “thick as bumblebees.”

As the railroad pushed westward, it pushed the stagecoach out and about the same time; the rich ores were diminishing in the area. Bumble Bee was destined to die. Its few remaining residents did everything to keep the town alive, moving the town site three different times as new roads were surveyed. Finally, though, it was by-passed so far by the Black Canyon highway, it became a true ghost town.

In the mid 1930’s an attempt was made to bring Bumble Bee back to life by making it into a tourist attraction. Several new buildings were constructed, but the attraction never drew the tourists they hoped for.

Over the years, the property changed hands a number of times, until the entire town was placed on the market and purchased in 1960 by newspaper king, Charles A. Penn. Though Penn had plans to restore the town and build a museum, it never happened.

Time and weather have taken their toll on what little is left of the old ghost town, though several buildings continue to stand. The site is on private property and some of the old buildings are occupied; however, photographs can be taken from the road. At the time of this writing, the old school building, which houses a private residence and formerly, a gift shop for several years, is for sale.

The rest of the businesses have long closed have been left to the elements.

[zman]

BTW, I may have sound a little harsh. I have nothing agaist Bumble Bee. If you look at the website that wants to save Bumble Bee their arguments for the reroute are vague and I can counter every claim they make. Hopefully the study will come out with the right route. At this point I just see nothing there to claim why the new freeway would be bad.

zman

[Hardline]

I'm talking about the accidents near the bumble bee exit coming down the hill. 4 hour delays are not unheard of. Also the vertical climb in this area creates a nice road jam when one trucker going 25mph decides to pass another one going 24mph.


I don't think you were harsh, it is true about the accidents in that area. Wayco may chime in about this, I can remember his father, who lived in Black Canyon City before he passed away several years ago, would go and man the phone at the local fire department when they were called to an accident on I-17 and he would do it several times a week, and almost always on the weekend at one point or another. These were often fatal accidents with multiple hour delays.

[GRUNT]

Yes, I will concur with you guys about the safety of the highway. I must state though it is not the highway itself that is unsafe, it is the drivers in a rush to get back to town. They come barrelling down and when they crash it is like bowling, they take everything with them. The accidents are in remote areas which cause further delay in DPS and Fire/EMS getting there. A new freeway may give you more lanes but you'll still have the delays. Now people will travel faster and side by side, still will take a long time to get help and clean them up...

[Sandee McCullen]

Just the fact of the HISTORICAL VALUE of Bumble Bee I would think would weigh on the side of preservation. Bumble Bee is one of the most historically known sites, along with the Coke Ovens, that draw vistors (Economic value) to Arizona.

Just received a map from ADOT with proposed freeways that go through Wilderness or National Conservation Areas or cut beautiful canyons in half. It's time our people step up and help preserve some of our state's history......... just my $.02

[amber.hodge]

I agree. I think that Bumblebee townfolk need to do some renos and restoration to make their little town look worth preserving.

[Stoy]

OK my 3 cents: This is good and bad: good that yes it will cut; travel time,accidents that hold up traffic and shut the freeway for hours. BAD that it will desecrate natural habitat trails and the wonders of the south west. Not to mention tearing up one or two towns.

One of my questions is are they going to take the old freeway and make it look like it was before they built I17 in the first place?

What are the affects of the construction as it will or if it happens?

how many trails,homes , etc are going to be affected from this construction. And like it has been said before the gov't/state will do whats best for the whole!

IF we want to make the differance everyone of us needs to send our letters. Mine will go out tonight! How about yours?!

[GRUNT]

One of my questions is are they going to take the old freeway and make it look like it was before they built I17 in the first place?


Very good question... It would seem a waste to build a new freeway and leave the other sitting above....

[zman]

Well if they leave the "old" I17 alone Bumble Bee can be replaced by the Sunset Point rest stop. :D

[amber.hodge]

Or they could just move a Fouth time and probably be one of the only arizona towns to move 4 times in its life..... :) might be able to get some publicity out of it - I do have concern about the beautiful valley area and the trails though.

[zman]

I do have concern about the beautiful valley area and the trails though.

I do too, but I have not actually seen what would be affected to determine if its a real concern or not. What is beautiful to one may be just another valley to others. As far as trails, nobody has named any yet. Alot of assumptions at this point.

zman

[amber.hodge]

I know anything that would kill table mesa would create a riot with OHV users.

[zman]

I know anything that would kill table mesa would create a riot with OHV users.

...and I would then be fighting this proposal, but I don't think it will effect any of the TM trails. I am more worried about other groups (like Sierra Club)attacking the TM trails.

zman