AZ Republic: "Off-roaders take toll on public land"

[heavyman]

Possible alternate title COULD have read "Off-roaders see beautiful public land that is otherwise inaccessible." Which do you prefer?

Within today's article (see link below) are just a few lines toward the end about how user activism helps:

"Off-roading clubs have also been active in volunteer efforts to repair damaged areas, build fences around trailheads and other activities to help the agencies. "

The rest of the article is primarily a dire-sounding warning about how off-roaders are damaging the desert, and to the uneducated this article is going to be fuel for future legislation that hurts our cause and further restricts recreational land use. Everyone needs to read, read, read, and let their voices be heard! (BTW, Sandee, thanks for all your hard work and dedication). I believe it is important that we understand the issues raised in this article, since they seem to make for good press. It would be nice to see an article about how much our kids love to see places in the middle of nowhere that only Jeeps,etc can reach...not quite as glamorous, though!

http://www.azcentral.com/news/green/articles/0731offhighway0731.html
- by Corinne Purtill, The Arizona Republic, Jul. 31, 2007 12:00 AM -

Jonathan

[RokNRich]

ouch

That was pretty harsh. I think maybe she doesn't like us !

:p

[offroadaz]

do people read the republic anymore?

[Papa Mo]

do people read the republic anymore?

They are still in business!! bad,bad,paper:(

[Moriarty]

I also thought it was ironic they put the positive side of us off-roaders in
a two liner 3/4 down the page. I am always sure to tread lightly but can't help but laugh when I unstack rock piles from other people knowing that while I am doing my part to keep the trail in its natural form somewhere lurking in the darkness licking his lips is a developer waiting to bulid Anthem Part III. :rolleyes:

[azrubyman]

Yeah, I read the article this morning. I was expecting a much worse drubbing and ended up actually surprised we didn't get hit harder, as is usually the case in the press.
My take away from the article was....The main point being the sheer numbers of new OHV users every year and as the responsible OHV users numbers grow...so do the irresponsible users numbers grow. We all know what they are talking about here. Also, they actually wrote about the Copper sticker failing and how the state legislature le everyone down, conservation, OHV....everyone. All in all not a friendly OHV article but not totally off base either on some key points, IMO.
Ken

[61scout80]

well, since we do so much damage we should close all the land. then they should sell it so a developer can buy it, bulldoze it and build more houses.

[My1stJeep]

I have to say, I think she hit the nail on the head. She did decipher between responsible and irresponsible OHV users, and we do know that irresponsible OHV users do cause damage just like irresponsible hikers, horse back riders, etc... No matter how you use the land, an irresponsible user in the form you like to recreate on it will cause damage, as much as the greener side of life would like to make you think they don't, we can just look to their actions in Martinez Canyon to validate they do.

She also talks about efforts by OHV groups to rehab areas, also talks of our support of legislation that would help fund programs to educate and enforce the current laws on the books and put some teeth to them (HB 2443), which in the end helps us preserve our areas and trails to ride. So while she does point out some not so nice facts, she does denote that those were by irresponsible OHV users, I think a more appropriate term would have just been irresponsible users, but JMO.

I do think azrubyman has a point, it would have been nice for her to include the benefits of seeing the outdoors, exploring and the family bonds that get built during family outings. Who knows if we all write some positive comments and encourage her enough, maybe she will do a follow up piece from our point of view.

[SavageSun4x4]

I read the article and I have to take some of it with a raised eyebrow.

The Enviro-Nazis always talk about terra-firma as if walking on it would bring the earth to a grinding halt.

Fact is I just don't beleive there BS that stepping on it will cause 100 years of irrepairable damage.

I have to cite some observations:

1) Mt St Helens. I have been there many times and have flown over it to view it many times. When I first went up there after it was opened again it looked like the surface of the moon. NOT a living thing and the ground was like powder having been literally burnt to a crisp. It has made a STUNNING recovery, even amazing the scientists that have been monitoring the site, many who I spoke with.

2) Ft Hood Texas. The largest full time combat training base in the free world. 2 full time stationed combat Army Divisions, mechanized Infantry and tanks train there 24 x 365. Additionally it is the largest combat National Guard and Army Reserves training base in the free world, training 24 x365. I spent 7 years training there. It never ceased to amaze me how the ground could recover as fast as we drove over it.

To give you an idea: When a M 1 tank unit (64 tons each tank) traverses a trail by the time you get back to the 10th tank or so the ground/trail develops a water-like appearance. Drive thru in a Jeep and you can see the "waves" of dust acting like water. Incredible.

3) Training area, Hohenfels, Germany. Germany being small dedicated a training area for the US, German and NATO training. Again it is a mechanized tank heavy area. The are is quite small as far a training areas go. It rains/snows a lot where it is (at the base of the Alps) and a 64 ton tank going thru there churns up the vegetation and mud into a soupy mixture. Yet in over 50 years of continual training it still looks like another patch of woods.

4) Permian Basing oil fields of West Texas. A desert similar to our here only drier. 70+ years of oil drilling, spilling, most of it long before any "clean-up" rules and yet it looks almost undamaged. I have seen it many times from the air in a small private plane and from the window of a 4x4 truck as we drove to various drilling sites.

5) North Slope of Alaska. Flown over this several times always looked like frozen ice and snow far as I could tell.

6) Bikini Atoll, Pacific Ocean. I haven't personally seen it, but have friends who have and have seen on TV the returning scientists as they went back to the island of nuclear testing. Yep, you guessed it. Its alive and has come back.

7) Bay of Campeche Mexico, site of worlds largest oil spill, Gulf of Mexico in general, more oil spills than any place in the world. The fish are still biting, shrimp business is booming, beaches are clean and sport fishermen head to the oil platforms to fish since it is so fertile for fish. I have driven the entire coast line from Brownsville, Texas to Key West FL. SCUBA dived and fished. The Red Snapper is abundant, shrimp are large and the Oysters are succulent, in fact rated as some of the best in the world.

Bottom line is I haven't seen all the damage the E-Nazis claim is there or would be there if we set our toes upon it.

To put it another way...show me the money?

[Lumpster]

She didnt even address the fact that there may not be more "off-roaders" but that more "off-roaders" are licensing their quads, dirtbikes, etc... due to local laws and enforcement of "on-road" driving of such vehicles. Of course the number of licenses would go up if enforcement of "on-road" law that was ignored in the past is not being enforeced.

My son and I ride our quads on trails but last year we couldnt ride in until we got licenses due to local enforement. We rode for years without licenses on them but last year it became a big issue..... Just my obvious flaw in her article.

[1BLKJP]

I think this would be an excellent time for Ms. Purtill to hear from some of the off road enthusiats. So she can have first hand knowledge of how much we actually to do try and help keep the lands we enjoy in better shape than we find them.

This is exactly what I did with Shawn McKinnon when they wrote the last article's about desert dumping and it turned into a huge plus for us and gave us some very favorable coverage of last falls's TM cleanup and also others in the state as well.

[amber.hodge]

Mean old liberal battle axe

my 2 centavos.

[Kiwi]

I wonder when the concerned environmentalists are gonna start showing up down along the border protesting the tens of thousands of people marching across the desert every year, dumping hundreds of tons of trash, urine, human waste, etc...

Kinda shows you their priorities are a bit out of whack. Responsible, tax paying citizens recreating = must stop now. Trash dumping, desert killing 'migrants' = bring 'em on!

[amber.hodge]

Maybe we should publish an article about how bad greenies are for our children.......

[jkdup]

I think my big beef about the whole article is the title - it lumps all off roaders together when the article is entirely focused on quads and all the damage they can do. (I realize some people here have quads and are very responsible - :D)

The majority of people out there are going to see the title and not be interested enough to actually read the article. Then in their ignorance will automatically blame us too.

[Wayco]

Mean old liberal battle axe who obviously is too harsh and ugly to get laid so she takes it out on offroaders. b ich

my 2 centavos.

Gee Amber, I guess we won't be asking you to write a "thank you" letter....:rolleyes:

I think Jack (1BLKJP) has an excellent idea, the article has merit, let's show some support. Not that I expect much from that paper.

[amber.hodge]

Sorry, I'm in an unusually bad mood today. I just felt that the article was very unfair to those of us who do happen to be very responsible and the writer should have more tactfully attacked those who abuse the land privileges we have and cut trails/ trash nature/ etc......There are a lot of them, but there are some very responsible OHV groups and people out there who are aware of the need to follow the rules and to leave everything in as good - if not better - condition than what it was found in. I don't see need for a thank you letter for this article. It stereotypes and overgeneralizes.

[jkdup]

Sorry, I'm in an unusually bad mood today. I just felt that the article was very unfair to those of us who do happen to be very responsible and the writer should have more tactfully attacked those who abuse the land privileges we have and cut trails/ trash nature/ etc......There are a lot of them, but there are some very responsible OHV groups and people out there who are aware of the need to follow the rules and to leave everything in as good - if not better - condition than what it was found in. I don't see need for a thank you letter for this article. It stereotypes and overgeneralizes.

I absolutely agree.

[ArizonaXJ]

I also thought it was ironic they put the positive side of us off-roaders in
a two liner 3/4 down the page. I am always sure to tread lightly but can't help but laugh when I unstack rock piles from other people knowing that while I am doing my part to keep the trail in its natural form somewhere lurking in the darkness licking his lips is a developer waiting to bulid Anthem Part III. :rolleyes:


I know exactly what you mean. Being in the military we suffer greatly because of environmental issues. Take Florence for example.
Here is a great place to train and shoot artillery. Not too far from Phoenix but far away enough not bother anyone, so-to-speak. Fast forward a few years and bam! There's now developments everywhere headed in that direction. Then one weekend when we are trying to get to our firing point we run into a boat load of four-wheelers on Cottonwood canyon road. Okay, no problem except for a couple who had no idea what they were doing, thought of our convoy as an inconvenience and cut in and out....not the safest thing to do. We finally get to the firing point and as we're setting up our perimeter a group of dirt bikes come tearing down through a wash and one of them uses it as a ramp and launches himself into the air and almost takes out the MKT (large specially built trailer that pops up and serves as a kitchen for a unit).....
A few years later there are more houses closer to the training area. Then more OHV's....then we get blamed for all the damage done to the environment and have to pony up big $$$$ for corrective action. Where did that money come from??? How about school funding, training aids, ammunition, etc. A couple of more years and the STATE DOUBLES our (the military's) lease amount!!!!! Yes, we PAY to use that land. Meanwhile there are developers that are all over the area waiting for the STATE to make them a "sweet" land deal.......
Yeah, I pack out what I pack in and then some......I put my cigarette butts in my pocket or the Jeep.....but it is really getting harder and harder to do when I know the only people that really appreciate my efforts are my fellow enthusiasts with 1/2 a brain and my son's because they want to use the land.
The tree huggers don't really have a clue as to what is right or wrong or how to handle things properly, IMO. As for the licensing or charging a fee to use the land....that is just what we need. Another way for this mis-managed state to get more money out of us! They will raise the fees to where we can't afford to do this anymore. Here's an ad for you "Super nice Jeep, Lifted, Lockers, everything you need to hit the trail. Can't afford the special license anymore"
They are naive as to what it is that we do or want to do. They think they are protecting the environment....what they don't know is that they ARE protecting it....so that some SOB developer can snatch it up, build mega $$$$ homes on it and sell it with the add saying "Beautiful Desert Views".........
Sorry about ranting but I have lost too much to this State and the environmentalists........
BTW, for the Republic itself....yea, there are a few people that read it. I do once in a while, when it's free and I feel the need to get ticked off :mad:

[Allen]

Maybe we should publish an article about how bad greenies are for our children.......

A scientific study of the effects of enviromentalists on the public! Would be a laugh to show that they do as much damage as they claim we do!

[Sandee McCullen]

Sorry, I'm in an unusually bad mood today. I just felt that the article was very unfair to those of us who do happen to be very responsible and the writer should have more tactfully attacked those who abuse the land privileges we have and cut trails/ trash nature/ etc......There are a lot of them, but there are some very responsible OHV groups and people out there who are aware of the need to follow the rules and to leave everything in as good - if not better - condition than what it was found in. I don't see need for a thank you letter for this article. It stereotypes and overgeneralizes.

Irregardless of how biased the Header is the article is by far the most positive for "US" than has ever posted in the Republic in the past. Several members of the OHV Coalition were interviewed......... comments were made regarding "misquoting" and this DID HAPPEN. AGAIN.

There were positive facts and responses regarding RESPONSIBLE users.......... If any letters are written it's suggested they be polite, thank them for their beginning support and understanding that there are "responsible" users and there are "yahoos"............. as in ANY/ALL sports using public lands. Maybe ask that "quotes" be accurate and that better data might be better for understanding but don't slam the article as a whole or we won't ever get to a point where we can have a good relationship with the media. We NEED this ability.
Maybe offer the assistance of BRC or SEMA or ORBA or AMA etc.........

Yes, the bias is overwhelming sometimes but we won't help it with ugliness. What's the saying?.......
Honey draws more than vinegar. .............. spread the honey on thick.............beat them at their own game.

[amber.hodge]

My boss gives me that idiom when dealing with the boys downrange that are using the equipment.....I figure if you are still doing things wrong after 1 year you deserve my sharp tongue....I really don't do the honey thing well.....I'm pretty straightforward....most the time people don't like me because of it - but hey - at least I never lie!

[macinyart]

I thought the article wasn't too bad. It was biased in some areas and it left out some pertinent information and "background". Here is a copy of an email I sent to Ms. Purtill.
Ms. Purtill,
I read your recent article in the Republic. I thought it was reasoned and fair. I would like to share with you some background "aura", if you will allow me. In the article you mentioned that certain state and federal agencies were in the process of marking trails as "legal" and "illegal" (that is not the terminology that they will use). The background is this: There are groups of "environmentalists" who are lobbying heavily to close many trails that are in fact "legal" in order to fulfill their beliefs that only foot and horse traffic should be allowed in these areas. They wish to have roads closed that have been in existence for years. Recently the bill known as "2443" failed in the legislature. It would have been step in the right direction. I have been to several "cleanups" in the local Phoenix area. Specifically the area known as Table Mesa just northwest of the metropolitan area and Lower Sycamore off the Beeline about five miles past Fountain Hills. I must say the groups represented there were off road enthusiasts, ATV owners, off road bike owners, and jeep owners. I also feel it would be fair to point out that I did not see any representatives of the Sierra Club there or any other environmental group. Nor have I heard anything from those groups about the huge amounts of trash left in the Organ Pipe monument. Ms. Purtill, these are huge amounts of trash. If you or I threw trash like that we would be in prison. The problem is that the desert is huge and isolated. It is difficult to catch the violators due to the size of the area and the lack of law enforcement officers, who by the way, have been very cooperative with groups of off road people in responding to apparent violations of land use. I would like to thank you for reading this far. In addition I would ask respectfully that you look at these two sites.
www.azohv.org and www.treadlightly.org.
Both are evidence of groups of off road enthusiasts who share your respect for the desert.
Thank you.

[SavageSun4x4]

We finally get to the firing point and as we're setting up our perimeter a group of dirt bikes come tearing down through a wash

Redleg 24, Redleg 16, Fire Mission OVER

Redleg 24, over

Redleg 24, dirt bikes in open, azimuth 223 degrees, range 2300 meters, battery of 3 Hotel Echo, battery of 3 Willy Pete, spread rounds, fire for effect.

Redleg 16, shot out, shot out

Redleg 24 confirm, problem solved ;):D

[amber.hodge]

:D if only we could use howitzers... :D
I know where a howitzer christened "Jackie" is..... ;)

[ArizonaXJ]

Redleg 24, Redleg 16, Fire Mission OVER

Redleg 24, over

Redleg 24, dirt bikes in open, azimuth 223 degrees, range 2300 meters, battery of 3 Hotel Echo, battery of 3 Willy Pete, spread rounds, fire for effect.

Redleg 16, shot out, shot out

Redleg 24 confirm, problem solved ;):D

Why Don, I didn't know you were an old Red Leg???? Pretty good call for fire. Only a couple things missing.....but not the MAIN STUFF!!!!!
For this particular fire mission I would give you a "go" at this station!

[amber.hodge]

:) He outranks both of us, ArizonaXJ.....by a lot...