Trail Closure....Smasher Canyon and one other.

[zman]

Well people, this is the time to speak up. Smasher Canyon and another proposed trail near Smasher Canyon are to be shut down if the current TMR plan goes thru. Currently the Forest Service allows us to use Smasher but it's future does not look good. Other than Broken Arrow and Greasy Spoon there are no hard core trails in all of Coconino National Forest.

We need voices at the up coming meetings, and here are the dates:

July 31 (Tuesday) 5:00-8:00 p.m. Sinagua High School,
Flagstaff
August 1 (Wednesday) 5:00-8:00 p.m. Happy Jack Lodge,
Blue Ridge
August 2 (Thursday) 5:00-8:00 p.m. Cliff Castle Casino,
Verde Valley
August 4 (Saturday) 12:00-5:00 p.m. Sinagua High School,
Flagstaff

zman

[GRUNT]

Circle the wagons gang!!!

[pitch]

Is there a need to attend multiple meetings or would it be redundant?

I can attend at least one of the Flagstaff meetings.

[zman]

Is there a need to attend multiple meetings or would it be redundant?

I can attend at least one of the Flagstaff meetings.

I'm just doing the CV meeting. Put in a word about Smasher Canyon at your Flagstaff meeting. If they hear about it from another location other than from the VV4W in the Verde Valley maybe they will pay more attention. Jim Beard is one person I know that is familiar with the trail and is easy to talk to.

zman

[SEDONA RICK]

Would That One Other Be Brutal Canyon??
I Will Be In Flag For The Tues 07.31 Meeting.

[lancetkenyon]

That is funny! You said Broken Arrow and Greasy Spoon are hard core trails! That does suck about the closures though. Unfortunately, work does not permit me to attend these meetings. Good luck with the cause though. It is NOT funny that this is an issue.

[SEDONA RICK]

96 hrs UNTIL 1st MEETING. SO I'M GOING TO DO SOME RESEARCH IN THE MORNING. WHAT I LIKE TO DO BEST "RECON". GET THE FEEL. TUNE UP MY 'TUDE. TOUCHY FEELY WITH THE ROCKS.
BRUTAL CANYON & ICE COFFEE.
LANCE IT IS FUNNY WHEN THE BEST TRAILS IN THE VERDE VALLEY ARE LIKE DRIVING THE 51, 101, I-17 DURRING PEAK Hrs.

[ROKBITR]

I should be able to make it over to the 7-31 meeting in flag. Hopefully my jeep will be running enough to get over there. I don't get off work until 6 though, do you think that will be an issue? To be perfectly honest, I have never even ran that trail, or even know where it is for that matter, but those pics look pretty enjoyable:) . Where can I get some more details on that trail? Either way, I don't want to see anymore AZ trails in jepordy.

[SEDONA RICK]

Smasher & Brutal Canyons Are Near Clarkdale. And Are On The Western Edge Of Coconino Nat Forest.

Smasher Cyn Pics. End Of Spring This Year. Zman, Rick, And The Welder.

[lancetkenyon]

Smasher & Brutal Canyons Are Near Clarkdale. And Are On The Western Edge Of Coconino Nat Forest.

Smasher Cyn Pics. End Of Spring This Year. Zman, Rick, And The Welder.

Those are some good pics.:)

[Hivemind]

Great pics!! So, which one is "the Welder"? No, wait, I think I figured it out

[Sandee McCullen]

The need for RED shirts at these meetings is crucial but LETTERS will also help. Make specific note that both these trails were "APPROVED BY F/S". They were NOT wildcat trails. Being they were approved trails they need to give "specific reason/data" to close. If you find problems with the method of planning from Coconino.......... contact Harv Foresgren, Region 3 Supervisor. You can find his contact information on the FS, Region 3 WEB site.

[zman]

That is funny! You said Broken Arrow and Greasy Spoon are hard core trails! That does suck about the closures though. Unfortunately, work does not permit me to attend these meetings. Good luck with the cause though. It is NOT funny that this is an issue.


Ya I probably did not word that right. Forget about BA and GS as being Hard Core.

zman

[zman]

The need for RED shirts at these meetings is crucial but LETTERS will also help. Make specific note that both these trails were "APPROVED BY F/S". They were NOT wildcat trails. Being they were approved trails they need to give "specific reason/data" to close. If you find problems with the method of planning from Coconino.......... contact Harv Foresgren, Region 3 Supervisor. You can find his contact information on the FS, Region 3 WEB site.

Thanks Sandy,

The so called "Brutal" trail was not approved by the Forest Service. It has been submitted as a future trail under a different name. Unfortuneately the word about this trail has gotten out and now there are additional rouge trails in the area. The so called trail was even published in a popular 4WD magazine last year. The Verde Valley 4 Wheelers are working hard to get these trails on the map and have had several meeting with the FS. Would like to see more support outside the VV4W to show how popular our "sport" is.

zman

[Sandee McCullen]

Thanks Sandy,

The so called "Brutal" trail was not approved by the Forest Service. It has been submitted as a future trail under a different name. Unfortuneately the word about this trail has gotten out and now there are additional rouge trails in the area. The so called trail was even published in a popular 4WD magazine last year. The Verde Valley 4 Wheelers are working hard to get these trails on the map and have had several meeting with the FS. Would like to see more support outside the VV4W to show how popular our "sport" is.

zman

I haven't been up there for several years and don't know the "new" or "other" names for the trails but I know Smasher (lower and upper portions) were approved. USE THIS INFORMATION. If there are others simply include them in the proposed trail plan but include support of "new" trails by way of the APPROVED trail and a trail system as a combination.

Coconino WILL try closing everything they can........ they are claiming "can't manage" but they certainly plan on receiving $$$ from the OHV Gas Tax dollars. We must insure they are using OHV dollars for OHV issues!!! THAT is up to US to overview.

[pitch]

I just returned from the meeting at Sinagua HS. The number of mapped forest roads to be closed in the current proposal is staggering. Considering that all of the unmapped routes and roads will be closed under the new plan is really discouraging. Under the new plan I would guess that 60-70% of all existing roads will be closed, with around 1/3rd of those being currently mapped forest roads.

On the current maps, trails like Brutal and Smasher were not identified as access routes, other current roads are also left off of the approved list... once that I travel fairly regularly. Many of the other popular Sedona trails are included, but not all.

Per Jim Beard at the USFS, we have until the first week of Sept. to submit our public comments on routes that we would like approved. After 2009... do not expect to see any more washes, non-posted roads, or new trails to be made or run.

My biggest advice to everyone is to go to your meetings with routes already mapped out on your own. Put together an intellegent platform to stand on and make your case for keeping these routes open. We are already fighting a losing battle. Getting hot-headed and argumentative will not get us anywhere in this fight.

[zman]

Our club has sat down with Jim Beard at the Red Rock Ranger Station, sent out a written proposal with maps of the trail, the # forest road to acess the trail, and the club has offered to adopt the trail(s) and maintain them. I will be visiting with him again tommorow night. Jim Beard has been nice to talk to and none of our meetings have ever gotten argumentative. Our club has a very good relationship with the RRRS. I will keep plugging away at this until the very end. Just would like other people to speak up and let them know the VV4W are not the only group wanting this trail and others open.

zman

[Sedona Jeep School]

I attended the Camp Verde meeting. It was nice to see the maps on a larger scale than the "take out" size. At first glance, it does look like A LOT of trails will be closed, but actually, by my estimation, at least 90% of what showed as proposed closed roads are roads that have long since been closed, blocked off, or otherwise ignored to the point of no longer being identifiable as a road.

There were even a few "user-built" roads which made the designated list.

I will be adding a few more things that I would like to see designated as roads--mostly wash areas that have served as useful alternate routes off of more heavily traveled roads.

There were only a couple dozen people at the meeting when I went--around 6:30 - 7 PM. Everyone was actively engaged and discussions seemed positive and productive. The USFS staff has sure come a long way in the last 5 years in improving their public interaction.

FYI, the Prescott National Forest will be holding their meetings in October.

[FrenchChili]

^Where can we get those maps?

[zman]

^Where can we get those maps?

At the bottom of this link.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/projects/tmr/proposed-action.shtml

zman

[zman]

Got to talk to a few FS personal last night and have got some work to do. The FS looked at our proposal that the VV4W submitted a couple of months ago. I was told that they looked at over a thousand proposals and because Smasher was not already an established trail they did not put it on the map. Apparently it needs to go thru the process to determine what effects it will have on the forest. The FS has a budget of that can spent and we are going to work with them to have Smasher Canyon and the trail near by evaluated. I have talked with the District Ranger and she is willing to meet us in the next month or so regarding these trails. The door is not closed, but we have an uphill battle to keep these trails open. In the next month or two I would like to get an endorsement by local clubs to keep these trails open. Thinking of writting a generic letter and have it signed by various clubs throughout AZ on why we want this trail. I want to include these letters with my detail proposal on keeping Smasher Canyon open. What do you guys think? I am open to any suggestions.

zman

[DAKOTA]

My folks were at the meeting last night and what they got was over 95% of all roads that they use for riding ,hunting and even fishing on the smaller lakes/pods in there area are to be closed . My dad asked why the roads they asked to keep open were ALL to be closed and the guy replied "Well we don't want anyone up here " just like that . They sent out the email's about the meeting but they skipped the gal up in the community since she sends out the news letter to all the residents in the area . These 2 faced back stabbing crooks want to close everything so if you enjoy any part of the National Forest you need to get your letters sent . 2009 is right around the corner and unless paying taxes to take care of a forest you have to pay a fee to camp in and pay a fee to fish , ets ,ets. is your idea of a good time !

[SEDONA RICK]

SORRY I MISSED YOU LAST NITE NENA. I LEFT @ 6:00.
I HAVE BEEN REVIEWING THE "TAKE OUT MAPS" TODAY WITH A LITTLE INSITE I RECIVED FROM JIM LAST NITE. THE PLAN IS NOT TO CLOSE ROADS & TRAILS BUT AREAS. THERE WAS A LARGE OVER VIEW MAP OF AREAS AND THE DISTANCE TO AN OPEN ROAD.
"SMASHER" IS NOT EVEN ON THEIR MAP BUT THE ACCESS ROADS TO SMASHER ARE PROPOSED TO BE CLOSED. AND NENA IS RIGHT (AS ALLWAYS:rolleyes:) A LOT OF WHAT I SEE PROPOSED FOR CLOSURE ARE ALL-READY CLOSED OR NOT USED.
I'M GOING TO CK OUT THE WEB SITE & "TAKE OUT CD" TONITE.

[SEDONA RICK]

"THERE WAS A LARGE OVER VIEW MAP OF AREAS AND THE DISTANCE TO AN OPEN ROAD." THIS MAP IS "BLUE MAP" @ BOTTOM OF THE WEB SITE ZMAN PROVIDED.