Global Warming more convenient lies exposed

[SavageSun4x4]

Weatherman in Ca has discovered over 100 temp sensors that are used to determine our weather trends have been ...shall we say, mislocated.

Temp stations on or next to: Asphalt, concrete, AC exhaust, burning trash barrels, in direct sunlight, etc, etc.

http://www.surfacestations.org/

How NOT to measure temps: http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/weather_stations/

[desertrubi]

Looking at some of the pictures in the second link there, no wonder temps are getting higher. I remember when I first moved here temps would reach the 120's no problem. Seems we don't hit that high very often anymore. Huh, are we entering an ice age?

[TanTJJim]

If you haven't read "State of Fear" by Micheal Crichton, do it. It definitely sheds a different light on environmentalists and non-profits that have grown beyond their means.

[John_P]

Measurement error. The leverage this data has on global or regional trends is most likely minimal.

[SavageSun4x4]

Measurement error. The leverage this data has on global or regional trends is most likely minimal.

Johnny, you are too smart to be that dumb and beleive that ;)

[desertrubi]

Johnny, you are too smart to be that dumb and beleive that ;)

Its more than the leverage the data has, but the leverage the person or persons using the data has. Al Gore for one. He speaks and unfortunatly, there are those people that follow everything he says as fact. You use the statistics that benefit your side of the argument.

[Miles2go1979]

Incovnienent Truth was on Stars last weekend so I finally watched it (there was no way I'd actually pay to see it). Its scary to see how aweful it was. I almost got tied into the whole emotional thing that al gore was trying to play... talking about his son in the hospitle and sister dying of lung cancer... how did he win an award for that?

anyway one thing I noticed is that this theory of global warming relies on the assumtion that its just going to get hotter and hotter and there are no ways of the earth cooling itself... but earlier he explained how the glaciers that formed the great lakes caused an ice age in england when they melted... why wouldn't that happen again?

[WalterD]

This planet is allot older than any history books. What are the chances this planet has seen many global warmings and many Ice Ages? How many times has this planet had some global disaster that wiped out a good portion of it's population ( not talking about mankind )? It's happened before, that's a fact. Why does the existence of man change this? It doesn't, it will happen again. It's arrogant to think mankind is the sole reason for the existence of Planet Earth. It is just a matter of time.

[John_P]

Don, I am not saying that we should not strive to obtain the best measurements possible...but just that measurement error is always a factor. Connecting this to the broader GW debate is a bit of a stretch.

Whether GW is something we can directly change is really beside point...The point is that humans need to alter the way they interact with the environment.

[Cave Gimp]

Whether GW is something we can directly change is really beside point...The point is that humans need to alter the way they interact with the environment.

Well John, I think this is one of the few posts I agree with you on. Humans do need to change they way we interact with the environment. Don't trash our trails, don't waste resources, strive for better efficiency, etc.

As far as GW, well I'm sure humans have had some hand in accelerating what is a natural cycle for the earth. So this cycle may be a few hundred/thousand years shorter than others, but its still a cycle. It happened before us, and it will happen after us. What bugs me are the folks trying to make personal gains (money, fame, etc) off a natural occurrence.

Measurement error is a huge issue. At my work we all say "No data is better than bad data." How much 100 sensors will affect the complete calculation for planet, I have no idea, but the measurements need to be fixed.

[John_P]

Measurement error is a huge issue. At my work we all say "No data is better than bad data." How much 100 sensors will affect the complete calculation for planet, I have no idea, but the measurements need to be fixed.

Huge, but depending how much error is present, it can be accounted for...at least with some of the methods I use. Obviously if a measure has so much error it is simply all noise...well, then it is useless.

[SavageSun4x4]

Don, I am not saying that we should not strive to obtain the best measurements possible...but just that measurement error is always a factor. Connecting this to the broader GW debate is a bit of a stretch.

Whether GW is something we can directly change is really beside point...The point is that humans need to alter the way they interact with the environment.

Well John, I think this is one of the few posts I agree with you on. Humans do need to change they way we interact with the environment. Don't trash our trails, don't waste resources, strive for better efficiency, etc.

As far as GW, well I'm sure humans have had some hand in accelerating what is a natural cycle for the earth. So this cycle may be a few hundred/thousand years shorter than others, but its still a cycle. It happened before us, and it will happen after us. What bugs me are the folks trying to make personal gains (money, fame, etc) off a natural occurrence.

Measurement error is a huge issue. At my work we all say "No data is better than bad data." How much 100 sensors will affect the complete calculation for planet, I have no idea, but the measurements need to be fixed.

True that 100+ pieces of bad data will not skew the overall results by an order of a magnitude. That said, what we have here is a lone professional weatherman who has done some limited research in and around the region he lives. Taking this into account the results of his cursory investigation are staggering in their implications across the WORLD. I don't think for one second that his discovery is anomaly, in fact it is the norm.

If you examine temperature collection methods one thing becomes patently clear. Obtaining incorrect samples that are skewed to higher temps is not only easy, but the norm. To capture lower temps is at best difficult to do. Bottom line is temperature creep and its is upward not downward.

I fully concur that humans need to change the way they interact with the environment. But that is a very broad and all encompassing statement and I am not even sure what it means...I know what it means to me, but I also know what it means to Owl and I understood meanings are much different if not opposed.

THIS is what gets us in trouble: "Vote for me because I believe humans should change the way they interact with their environment"! If you don't vote for me then you must not care! Do we not ALL agree on changing the way we interact? Unless your deaf, dumb and blind, you can see where this is going.

I will bet money that I am more caring, more concerned, more passionate and have done more for our environment that Owl ever has. But I am 100% opposed to his and his followers lunacy.

I believe in hunting:
Waterfowl: At all time records in population due to the efforts of Ducks Unlimited and hunters.

Polar Bears: At all time records in population due to the efforts of hunters.

Black Rhino: Saved from extinction by hunters.

Elephants: Populations at all time highs due to the efforts of hunters. The exceptions are a few countries in Afrika that banned hunting due to the efforts of a group of American Doctors and some others here.

Same for deer and Elk populations in the US, EXCEPT in states that the wackos have got involved. Starvation, disease and environmental destruction has occurred.


Rent a light plane and fly over one of the worlds largest and most productive oil fields. The one that provided the WORLD with it oil supply for nearly 50 years. Fly low so you can try to find any damage to the environment...it will difficult to see. Yes, I have done this! Permian Basin, West Texas.

How about the Gulf of Mexico? From Florida's "sugar sand" white beaches to Texas Padre Island, a prime destination for water fun, shrimping, fishing. Yet BILLIONS of barrels of oil have been extracted.

I would venture to say that Table Mesa is in worse shape than West Texas or the Gulf of Mexico.

Fact is we can go on and on.

And in the news TODAY:
Germany considering phasing out its NUCLEAR plants and converting to coal and gas for safety IN-SPITE of environmental concerns.

Japan rocked by NUCLEAR radioactive water spillage into the Sea of Japan. Government to discuss converting to coal and gas for electrical generation...in-spite of environmental concerns.

IMO the current "Warming" and some of the other environmental arguments have NOTHING to do with care-taking of our planet, NOTHING! In fact I feel it is just another ploy by individuals, companies and governments to gain and further control the people, extract unneeded taxes, control our comings and goings and our lifestyles. FOLLOW THE MONEY!

[Miles2go1979]

Humans do need to change they way we interact with the environment. Don't trash our trails, don't waste resources, strive for better efficiency, etc.

So do I, but out of respect for the wonder creation that we live and play in. Not because of fear of the earth boiling away. Talk about playing on fears...

[willtjx]

i think the whole GW debate is rediculous...however lets assume for a moment that it is right and we do everything that we can to "save the planet" what is the downside? nothing. on the other hand lets assume its all bunk and we continue doing what we are doing are there drawbacks? maybe. i dont "tread lighty" because i am afraid of enviro groups...i do it because its the right thing to do.

will

[Scout]

iwe do everything that we can to "save the planet" what is the downside? nothing.

Some oilmen will have a few less billion dollars.



on the other hand lets assume its all bunk and we continue doing what we are doing are there drawbacks? maybe. i dont "tread lighty" because i am afraid of enviro groups...i do it because its the right thing to do.

will

On target.

[Kiwi]

Doing more to pollute less is a noble goal. Enacting treaties that exclude the polluting nations is dumb.

But, when the selling of 'carbon credits' popped up, the light finaly goes on. It's all about the money. Scare the people into parting with thier money. Same old scam.

[SavageSun4x4]

Doing more to pollute less is a noble goal. Enacting treaties that exclude the polluting nations is dumb.

But, when the selling of 'carbon credits' popped up, the light finaly goes on. It's all about the money. Scare the people into parting with thier money. Same old scam.

Like I always say "Follow the money".

I agree 100% the earth is getting warmer and there is NOTHING we as a collective human race can do to stop it. It will run its course as it has over the past 4 Billion years or so of our planets life.