D-35 locker

[sms1688]

Ok Seen alot of things about the d-35 rear diff. I have heard alot about if you put a rear locker that you will snap axles alot. Is this true? What is the best upgade to do? should I just get a different Diff? What will bolt up? What kind of locker? I dont like air. I dont want to put a ton of money in. Wheres I good place to get it? All and any info would be great thanks.

[desertdawg]

I wouldn't put a locker in a dana 35. I know of two people who broke axles after locking their dana 35's and they weren't really wheeling hard.

If you really want a locker I would put one up front and save up the money to upgrade your rear to a dana 44 before locking the rear.

[sms1688]

Ok so a dana 44 will bolt up in place of the dana 35? Where would I get a dana 44? How much would they cost and what would be a good locker for it?

[Allen]

I have a locked D30/D35! I put the lockrights in it because spending more than $200 on a D35 would be a waste! I've had it over a few trails since locking it and no troubles, but it's not going to take too much skinny pedal without breaking! Stay easy on the climbs and you'll be ok!

A D44 is on my wish list, but the funds are slim!

[desertdawg]

4Wheeler's Supply, DesertFab, Absolute Offroad, are a few and they are all business sponsors on this board. I'm sure they will chime in here soon.:)

[lancetkenyon]

Yep, don't waste the cash on a D35. Save the cash for a D44 or Ford 8.8 upgrade. Lockrites are cheap and strong.

[sms1688]

What about these upgrade kits they have for the dana 35 are they worth it with a locker or just a waste of money?

[rosshh]

What about these upgrade kits they have for the dana 35 are they worth it with a locker or just a waste of money?

by the time you get the bigger spline axles and a locker you coulda shoulda bought a 44. Pretty sure also your locker choices are limited.

[OlneyJeeps]

guess I should take the lockright out of my XJ (31x10.5's, AT) .... been in there for 2.5 years now and still havent broken it (or axles )

On reading what I just wrote, noticed BIG "concern": AT or manual.... manuals are much more prone to breaking things ( oh, I can feel the heat of the flames already:eek: )

I have a full floater kit that has been sitting on shelf (waiting for one of my axles to break.... just collecting dust).... will probably sell as soon as the "burb" (:eek: OlneyJeeps got a Chevy:eek: ) is done

[Wayco]

Hey Paul, after watching the way you drive, I can't recommend doing anything to your D35. It's days are numbered if you plan on rock crawling your YJ. A D44 will cost you almost as much as your Jeep did unless you piece it together from stuff you find here. Then you need fabricating skills to mount it. I guess what I'm trying to say (diplomatically) is that you could spend a lot of money on your rig, and still have an unreliable Jeep. Maybe you should look at Spongebob's Jeep:
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=21643
He has a lot of upgrades that we all want, and they are already put together in a nice Jeep that can take the kind of abuse that our trails here dish out. Not trying to take anything away from your Jeep, it could drive all over Arizona and give you lots of adventures, but the rated trails that we wheel around here will tear it up. The nice thing about this forum is that you can get advice from all different perspectives and then make up your mind. This is just my opinion. :)

[Mike McCarville]

I have a 94 YJ and put in a 8.8 out of a salvage yard 97 Ford Explorer. Cost $350 to include all brake lines and disc brakes. It was fairly easy to install, some welding required for spring perches and shock mounts. There are plenty 8.8's out there and you can find many "how to do it's" if you google jeep axles swaps.

[sms1688]

Hey Wayne I am just looking at how far I want to get with this. Asking question prices and what not. Like you said this a great place to get different perspectives. I am not going to go crazy I want to stay with the moderate runs.

[lancetkenyon]

As Wayne said, you can spend $1K on a D35 upgrade, or save your dimes for a D44. I try to talk everyone I know out of throwing cash away. There was only 1 guy I knew who ran a Super 35 kit and didn't break it........often. I did see him break it, only 1 time. He also carried extra alloys as spares. Why spend the cash on extra alloys, when you KNOW you are gonna break it. Trust me, do it right the first time, not the second.(hint hint, Johnathon)

[azcharlie]

They should call it the D-35 locker bomb. Because they always go BOOM! I don't know anything about the 8.8 but the D44 is a great axle and you can get 30,33 or 35 spline axle shafts.

[tomfooshee]

Sounds like I need a new Jeep. I've got lockrights in the front 30 and rear 35. The rear locker has been in over 5 years and the front for 1 year. Stock axles still. But I don't do the rock krawling. 3.5 trails is about it for me. The lockrights work for me. Some others have Aussie lockers and powertrax which are all basically the same type. It all depends on what you want to do with your Jeep. The lockrights pop and bang once in awhile. Scares the ---- out of you. You'd sware your rear end is laying all over the place but it's still there and you drive on.

[rockwerks]

They should call it the D-35 locker bomb. Because they always go BOOM! I don't know anything about the 8.8 but the D44 is a great axle and you can get 30,33 or 35 spline axle shafts.

alot depends on driving style and types of trails. I know many who have run a 35 locked with 35's for many years........Is it a hardcore axle? no does it need to be for many? NO.

Im running a super 35 ARB with usa alloys in my XJ custom trussed, with 34's and frankly Im not worried about it

[Wayco]

Sounds like I need a new Jeep. I've got lockrights in the front 30 and rear 35. The rear locker has been in over 5 years and the front for 1 year. Stock axles still. But I don't do the rock krawling. 3.5 trails is about it for me. The lockrights work for me. Some others have Aussie lockers and powertrax which are all basically the same type. It all depends on what you want to do with your Jeep. The lockrights pop and bang once in awhile. Scares the ---- out of you. You'd sware your rear end is laying all over the place but it's still there and you drive on.

This is what I was trying to tell Paul, his rig and your rig are perfect for wheeling the forest roads and easier trails around Arizona! The best advice I can give to anyone is WHEEL IT, take it out with friends or others that you meet on this forum. By doing that, you get experience with others with similar interests. When you break something, everyone will have advice on what to do next. BELIEVE ME, everybody has an opinion here and they are willing to share it.
That's the beauty of this group, we love it when someone breaks something, it gives us the opportunity to help, share experiences, laugh at each other.....:D Just ask me about Moab....:eek: :D

[My1stJeep]

Ok, I ran a lockright in my D35c on 33" tires and had no problems for over a year. I never broke an axle, I instead had two carriers go out on me. It was my daily driver and I put an average of 40,000 miles a year on it, and I wheeled it on everything from Appetizer to Lower Terminator and everything in between, but stayed pretty soft on the skinny pedal.... most of the time (right Stu?) :D

I toyed with the D44 vs 8.8 swap. For a YJ the swap would not be much different doing the D44 or the 8.8. If you get a D44 from YJ then the spring purchases would be on there, for the 8.8 there are leaf spring mounts on the underside, don't know if they would work on a YJ or if you would have to swap them out.

Either case you will need a new driveshaft made, cost will be about $300.

As for strength I have to give it to the 8.8, the housing is stronger, the axle shafts are stronger (IMO, 31 spline that are slightly larger than a GM 12 bolt) and the diff/ring and pinion are definitely stronger. The only down side is that it is still a c-clip. That said I have heard of only one break and that came from a guy with a chevy 350 and he was hammering down on it hard enough he said he would have broken a D60. YOu can find several pulled at yards for abot $400, that might even have the same gear ratio you currently have in your YJ and a limited slip device. If you do choose the 8.8, which to me is your best choice (know a few guys who even with the c-clip swapped out their D44 for an 8.8), do not go with a lock right. For some reason this locker does not do well with an 8.8. I had it for about 18 months (12 months daily driver), not my daily driver anymore and it went out, so I went mini-spool now. I suggest going with a detroit if you don't get one with limited slip. If you can get the limited slip then I suggest getting a lockright for the front.

One thing to be very clear, the 8.8 came in mustangs, rangers, explorers, etc... however the only vehicle that the 8.8 came in with the 31 spline shafts standard was the Explorer. The others have a 27 spline which is not much stronger then the stock D35c. There are a few yards that are you pull it yards that have half off days, at most of them that puts the 8.8 using your labor at under $100.

My vote is 8.8.........

[rvisokey]

I too run a D35 with the Super 35 kit, Detroit Lckr, trussed housing and 33's. Never worry about it and have abused it extremely well. If I ever upgrade tires to a larger size it may become a concern but for now it's exceptionally tough.

[Tom Jacobson]

Depends on a lot of things...at the top of the list, how does the original poster intend to use HIS JEEP???

If plan to install 35-36"+ tires and run 4.0 trails, my advice would be to trash-can the thought of running a D35. Start saving for something bigger...8.8, D44, or even beyond.

If plan to run 33's to maybe 35's on moderate trails, then the Super 35 kit starts to make sense. You can maybe install a D44 or 8.8 for about the same money...but the Super35 is a more straightforward (easy) approach.

Advice regarding locking the stock D35? DON'T! ;-) Been there, done that. Broke a lockright 2-3 times on as many consecutive runs and had simply had enough. The Lockrite is really sensitve to any bend in your axle housing, so with an older YJ (1992 was what he had, right?)...could be a good chance it's not straight anymore. The little spring loaded pins that go between the two halves of a lockrite are super puny on the D35 model and like to snap.

If you need a locker immediately for your wheeling, consider something for the front D30. Haven't heard nearly as many complaints about Lockrites, or any other locker, for the HP D30.

FWIW...my old YJ has 8.8 with Detroit and stock shafts and the D30 with lockrite on alloy shafts. Seen plenty of 4.0 trails on 35-36" rubber. D30 Lockrite has been in for ~7-8 yrs...no problems with it.

Good luck!

Tom

[azcharlie]

alot depends on driving style and types of trails. I know many who have run a 35 locked with 35's for many years........Is it a hardcore axle? no does it need to be for many? NO.

Im running a super 35 ARB with usa alloys in my XJ custom trussed, with 34's and frankly Im not worried about it

Yes it depends on a lot of different things. But if your going to upgrade why not just get your moneys worth and get the 8.8 or D44? Then if he decides to get bigger tires or start running the harder trails he won't have to worry about breaking the super 35.

[lancetkenyon]

Yes it depends on a lot of different things. But if your going to upgrade why not just get your moneys worth and get the 8.8 or D44? Then if he decides to get bigger tires or start running the harder trails he won't have to worry about breaking the super 35.

My thoughts exactly.

[rockwerks]

My thoughts exactly.

I only spent 400.00 for the setup:D arb, 4:56 gears, and usa alloys.....

[rockwerks]

Yes it depends on a lot of different things. But if your going to upgrade why not just get your moneys worth and get the 8.8 or D44? Then if he decides to get bigger tires or start running the harder trails he won't have to worry about breaking the super 35.

a super 35 is 40% stronger than a stock dana 44

[lancetkenyon]

a super 35 is 40% stronger than a stock dana 44

But still has the C-clips, which are not even close. And how much stronger are Alloy USA D44 shafts, even the 30 spline?

[azcharlie]

a super 35 is 40% stronger than a stock dana 44

LOL...........

[rosshh]

a super 35 is 40% stronger than a stock dana 44


what formula did you use to calculate that :confused:

[d10shun]

So many opinions - just do what you can afford. I invested in my d35 and didn't regret it. Then got a used d44 from junkyard $350-500. VERY hard to find. I paid $500, ouch. New brakes, paint, gears, detroit, bearings, labor, etc. Don't really want to add it up but it is expensive.


My buddy has a d35 4:56 geared, powertrax locker axle sitting in his garage. Needs a drum, but you can just swap out yours. $300. Super deal, not a lot of money. It was in my truck and wheeled it for about a year with no problems. Wheeled all sorts of terrain and went easy on the pedel. PM me for more info
Ben

[David C]

I put a simple lockrite locker on my D35 running 33's and broke the passenger side axle about 2 months later. Not even giving it much gas - just coming out of a wash off-camber with most of the weight on that tire. I left the locker in and for about a year I ran lots of trails, some rather challenging, but eventually I broke the driver's side. Again, just slowly creeping over a moderate sized rock. Everyone was surprised that it broke at such an unlikely place. The locker was damaged so I put the spider gears back in and now run open diffs. And I still run the moderate trails without any problems because I am a little better driver now. I don't miss the locker much and my upgrade plans will be the Ford 8.8 mainly because of the price and the fact that I can do all the welding and installation myself. I don't know when or if I'll ever get the money to upgrade, but I do know I will never put another locker on a D35.

[Mike McCarville]

I installed an 8.8 from a salvage yard 97 Ford Explorer. Cost $350. Only cutting and welding was to cut off old spring perches and weld on new perches at the proper angle and distance apart and shock mounts. The 8.8 axle shafts are 1.31" diameter, 31 spline. The tube diameter is 3.25". The width is 59.75," (.75" narrower than the D35). It has the same 5x4.5" wheel bolt pattern. You can find them with 3.55, 3.73, or 4.10 gears from the factory. When I was looking for mine, I found many with Trac Lok limited slip. 1991 to 2001 is what you want to look for, but starting in 1995, they came with disc brakes. The 8.8 uses a pinion flange instead of a pinion yoke like most Dana axles. There are adapters called flange yokes available that connect this flange to the larger 1330 u joints (1994-95 YJ's) or smaller 1310 u joints (most other XJ,YJ,TJ's). However, if you have a 94-95 YJ, just make certain you get the flange from your Ford Explorer as they'll work on the YJ drive shaft. The Explorer uses the same 1330 u joint. Oh, you do use your YJ drive shaft too for this swap. The 8.8 does have c-clip shafts, but are plenty strong for anything less than a built V8 engine. And, with the disc brakes, if you do break the shaft, at least the caliper will hold the axle in the tube. As for the disc brakes, the lines are the same size and threaded right up. My YJ master cylinder works well with the brakes and actually stops me better than the D35 drums did. I even used the Fords ebrake cables. I did have to buy new brake shoes, oils and fluilds, spring perches, shock mounts, and a magnetic angle finder to position the diff angle. I found an 8.8 with the same gears as my front D30. I put in a Lock Right. I have no new vibrations on the road with the 8.8. The install took me and my father-in-law about two days at a leisurely pace to do. Hope this answers some of your questions.

[Mike McCarville]

I installed an 8.8 from a salvage yard 97 Ford Explorer. Cost $350. Only cutting and welding was to cut off old spring perches and weld on new perches at the proper angle and distance apart. The 8.8 axle shafts are 1.31" diameter, 31 spline. The tube diameter is 3.25". The width is 59.75," (.75" narrower than the D35). It has the same 5x4.5" wheel bolt pattern. You can find them with 3.55, 3.73, or 4.10 gears from the factory. When I was looking for mine, I found many with Trac Lok limited slip. 1991 to 2001 is what you want to look for, but starting in 1995, they came with disc brakes. The 8.8 uses a pinion flange instead of a pinion yoke like most Dana axles. There are adapters called flange yokes available that connect this flange to the larger 1330 u joints (1994-95 YJ's) or smaller 1310 u joints (most other XJ,YJ,TJ's). However, if you have a 94-95 YJ, just make certain you get the flange from your Ford Explorer as they'll work on the YJ drive shaft. The Explorer uses the same 1330 u joint. Oh, you do use your YJ drive shaft too for this swap. The 8.8 does have c-clip shafts, but are plenty strong for anything less than a built V8 engine. And, with the disc brakes, if you do break the shaft, at least the caliper will hold the axle in the tube. As for the disc brakes, the lines are the same size and threaded right up. My YJ master cylinder works well with the brakes and actually stops me better than the D35 drums did. I even used the Fords ebrake cables. I did have to buy new brake shoes, oils and fluilds, spring perches, shock mounts, and a magnetic angle finder to position the diff angle. I found an 8.8 with the same gears as my front D30. I put in a Lock Right. I have no new vibrations on the road with the 8.8. The install took me and my father-in-law about two days at a leisurely pace to do. Hope this answers some of your questions.

[Jeep4ME]

I put the 8.8 in my YJ last year. Paid $400 for a complete setup including brake pads and limited slip diff from a 2001 ford Explorer. Came with 4.10's to match my front. You just have to move the spring perches out a little and weld on new shock mounts. You will have to get a new driveline. When I did my swap I did the lift, SYE and rear end at the same time so I didn't have to pay more than once for a CV driveline. I also changed out the master cylinder due to the rear disk brakes needing more fluid. None of it was hard just need a grinder and welder.

The 8.8 axles from my research are stronger than the d44 though some complain they are c-clilp axles, if they do break the axle will not walk out because the disk brakes will hold the axle in the housing.

There's lots of info on the 8.8 swap and if you want to see one under a YJ pm me and you can come over and see what I've done.

[Fire Ball]

I run lock rite in front D30 and open in the rear D35. I am more than pleased with where I can go.

[lancetkenyon]

There is still no substitute for a rear locker, but a front definately helps a ton. Just ask PhxCobra about the last fall on UA. A rear locker and he would have walked it. He drove everything else though.

[Tom Jacobson]

X2 (or 3?) on most of what Mike McC and Jeep4ME said about the 8.8. There are several options on how to obtain them and build them, obviously affecting the final cost of the swap. Detroits for them run $500+, so it could easily be the most expensive part of that particular swap. I did not have to change anything about the driveline length...ran the stock YJ rear shaft until I SOA'd it and di the SYE. On my particular Jeep, the 8.8 disc brakes are better than the D35 drums...but I'm still not happy. Need to explore some type of change to the system...new/different MC I guess.

Prior to the 8.8 install, and the failed attempts at getting a locker to survive in my D35, I ran several trails over the course of a couple years with only the front D30 lockrite and open rear (like Fireball). Was a HUGE improvement over being open/open. So I can't argue with his recommendation as a step in the right direction.

Tom

[rockwerks]

There is still no substitute for a rear locker, but a front definately helps a ton. Just ask PhxCobra about the last fall on UA. A rear locker and he would have walked it. He drove everything else though.

I'm a big believer in a front locker first. I ran that way for a year before getting a rear arb many years ago and was able to do many obstacles that the guys who where locked in the rear only could not get over.

[lancetkenyon]

I'm a big believer in a front locker first. I ran that way for a year before getting a rear arb many years ago and was able to do many obstacles that the guys who where locked in the rear only could not get over.

Agreed, getting the front to climb an obstacle instead of pushing into it helps. I have seen where a front is more important than a rear, and vice versa. Just get locked F/R and you are set.

[Jeep4ME]

X2 (or 3?) . On my particular Jeep, the 8.8 disc brakes are better than the D35 drums...but I'm still not happy. Need to explore some type of change to the system...new/different MC I guess.


Tom

If you swap in the 78 mercury grand marquis master cylinder that is a direct bolt in and costs $16.99 Part No. 101603 at checker autoparts www.partsamerica.com (online). It is cheaper online, so buy online and pick it up at the store. I don't remember if I had to shorten the push rod or not.

Your brakes will be tons better. I hated my conversion until I put on the new Master Cylinder. For less than $20 bucks you must do this conversion. I did a lot of research on this issue and found that the race car drivers used this master cylinder on the cars that had disk brakes on all four wheels. There is also a version for 2 wheel disks if you are runnig drums up front.

[sms1688]

Wow didnt realize this would come from one question. I dont have the tools or the place to do much fabrication. I am lookins at the moment to do trials possibly up to 3.5. I am going to stick with 33" tire for a while. The front locker are you talking like a locrite or a selectable. How does a locrite in the d30 act on normal highway? Does it make driveing on the street any different? Sometimes I do get a little heavy on the throttle( I am working on not doing it as much) does the d30 break as much as they talk about the d35? Sounds like a front locker would help alot what are the Pros and cons?

[Wayco]

Man! You thought your FIRST question got a lot of response, now you opened up a whole new can of worms! The D30 is a MUCH more durable axle in my opinion, but that is based on what I have read on this forum. I started out with D44's and selectable lockers, and did my homework before buying. A selectable is much preferred IMHO.

[Tom Jacobson]

Front Lockrite (non-selectable) is invisible on the street...or as long as you are in 2WD. The YJ front drive shaft does not come from the factory balanced, and the lockrite will cause it to spin all the time. This may result in some driveline vibration, but the shaft can be balanced if it's too bad.

You'll probably want to lighten that right foot off road, though. Which will be a good thing for much more than the locked front axle.

Hope to see you on trail tomorrow...sounds like you'll get a good learning experience to watch the other rigs in their various state of build-up. Don't hesitate to ask questions.

Tom

[lancetkenyon]

Front Lockrite (non-selectable) is invisible on the street...or as long as you are in 2WD. The YJ front drive shaft does not come from the factory balanced, and the lockrite will cause it to spin all the time. This may result in some driveline vibration, but the shaft can be balanced if it's too bad.

You'll probably want to lighten that right foot off road, though. Which will be a good thing for much more than the locked front axle.

Hope to see you on trail tomorrow...sounds like you'll get a good learning experience to watch the other rigs in their various state of build-up. Don't hesitate to ask questions.

Tom

I agree, except for one thing: the Lockrite will be INVISIBLE, but not SILENT! It will still ratchet when cornering, but you will not feel it. A D30 front will be more durable than a D35 with the same components.(locker, gears, etc) And finesse will keep you safe too, most obstacles do not require a throttle jockey to get over it. Sometimes just a bump(momentum) is all that is required, get off the gas as soon as you start climbing or break over. Spinning tires is usually a bad idea. It doesn't allow the lugs to hook up, spins past the traction point.

[Tom Jacobson]

They're both (invisible and silent) on YJ with that pass side disconnect (split inner shaft). And to be honest, I can't say I've heard mine even ratchet after the swap to single-pc iner shaft like the TJ's have.

Either way...ratcheting is no big deal.

And go install an axle, or something, Lance! ;-)

[lancetkenyon]

They're both (invisible and silent) on YJ with that pass side disconnect (split inner shaft). And to be honest, I can't say I've heard mine even ratchet after the swap to single-pc iner shaft like the TJ's have.

Either way...ratcheting is no big deal.

And go install an axle, or something, Lance! ;-)

:( I hope SOMEONE else sees this post, and hurries up.;) I think tomorrow will be a good day to work on it, just probably won't finish it up yet. Still waiting on 1 or 2 parts.

[sms1688]

Sounds like a front locker would be a good starting point and not to painfull to my piggy bank. Any other problems except possible drive shaft wobble/noise?

[FrenchChili]

weld it...:D


Seriously:eek: I broke carriers, spider gears.....lockers!!! Then, at the end, I realized that with all the cash spent on this stupidly engineered D35 I coulda got a 44:( I did get a 44, but it took and accident and $750 deductible:rolleyes: You can find a swap in 44 from free to less than $400.


THE SWAP IS CHEAPER THAN A LOCKER END OF STORY :D:D:D

[dragon51]

Keep watching the forms here and the for sale I picked up a compleat 8.8 with a Full Detroit locker here form here for $350 locker cost more than that alone, plus a built up HPD30 all cromo for a very fair price.

It's always nice when some one up grades and they just want money for a project!

[lancetkenyon]

Sounds like a front locker would be a good starting point and not to painfull to my piggy bank. Any other problems except possible drive shaft wobble/noise?

Depending on tire size, you might have a hard time with keeping axle shafts intact. If running anything over 33s, I would also suggest chromos. And stay off the skinny pedal.:D Your driveshaft shouldn't wobble, but you will hear the ratcheting. Just turn up the radio!;)