G&F land use meeting from tonight , Flagstaff, AZ

[rockwerks]

Well these meetings are more about how the process works rather than actual plans.

I did stay after the meeting to discuss the maps of th Kaibab and Tusayan

If you are a hunter or like primitive camping in Northern AZ you need to get involved.

the current proposed maps for the Kaibab close 95% of all roads in the forest, including many roads hundreds of roads that are currently on your recreational maps will be gone. Including roads with designations that have been around since the original inventories

I will next week have the Kaibab maps in my posession full sized and the amount of closures will be scary!

The ruling will be that all roads are considered closed unless marked as open with a road designation. This will be done by map and sign at the road. if not road sign no access to that road.

I now understand how it wont cost a lot to make the changes and signs for the roads....because the plan is to only delete existing and not add any not already marked. So to implement the plan will be going out to REMOVE signs only.

their definition of OHV trail is very restrictive it is held to vehicles 50" wide or LESS, So those who own many of the new larger ATV's like RHINO's etc will not be allowed on the OHV trails.

Basically the entire plan is a farse

[FrenchChili]

:confused: "Their" definition needs a kick in the butt....

u know where the next meeting is?

[My1stJeep]

We should be pushing for Open unless signed. We cna have signs on open roads all we want, but anyone who does not want us there can simply remove the signs at will and we will not know. Thus closing off a trail or route that should not be. JMO

Thanks for towing the line and going to the meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sedona Jeep School]

We should be pushing for Open unless signed.
That ship has already sailed. It is now national rule, just waiting for road inventories and processes to be completed. What we CAN do is get involved with which of our trails get designated as roads--this is the process the Coconino is in now.

Yeah, with the signage, it's like "guilty until proven innocent" now. :(

[rockwerks]

That ship has already sailed. It is now national rule, just waiting for road inventories and processes to be completed. What we CAN do is get involved with which of our trails get designated as roads--this is the process the Coconino is in now.

Yeah, with the signage, it's like "guilty until proven innocent" now. :(

the review process is happening in the Kaibab now and as it stands 95% of all existing roads and trails will be closed without input from hunters and us.

[Sandee McCullen]

We should be pushing for Open unless signed. We cna have signs on open roads all we want, but anyone who does not want us there can simply remove the signs at will and we will not know. Thus closing off a trail or route that should not be. JMO

Thanks for towing the line and going to the meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"DESIGNATION" does not necessarily mean a "sign". A MAP is the final word on whether a trail/road is OPEN. Many of the level 2 trails/roads will be, or are already, signed but the actual trails may not be. Again, a MAP will be the final rule. It will be OUR RESPONSIBILITY to have that map and abide by it.

RE: Routes and Transportation................. KEEP AT EACH OF THE FORESTS AND/OR RANGER DISTRICTS TO ENSURE YOUR IDENTIFIED ROUTES ARE INCLUDED IN THE EVALUATION. Remember also that the Forests are doing their own "evaluations"......... there will be no outside "unbiased" evaluations done so it's important we ALL keep on top of whats happening in our favorite areas or forests. The Forest Service WEB site is pretty complete so we do not have a reason to "not know what's happening". If you don't like what you see or hear........ call them; walk into their office; be at meetings and VOICE your concerns or needs. ALERT: Coconino is planning on closing HUGE numbers of acres and/or routes. They WILL DO IT if YOU do not stay involved.

[rockwerks]

"DESIGNATION" does not necessarily mean a "sign". A MAP is the final word on whether a trail/road is OPEN. Many of the level 2 trails/roads will be, or are already, signed but the actual trails may not be. Again, a MAP will be the final rule. It will be OUR RESPONSIBILITY to have that map and abide by it.

RE: Routes and Transportation................. KEEP AT EACH OF THE FORESTS AND/OR RANGER DISTRICTS TO ENSURE YOUR IDENTIFIED ROUTES ARE INCLUDED IN THE EVALUATION. Remember also that the Forests are doing their own "evaluations"......... there will be no outside "unbiased" evaluations done so it's important we ALL keep on top of whats happening in our favorite areas or forests. The Forest Service WEB site is pretty complete so we do not have a reason to "not know what's happening". If you don't like what you see or hear........ call them; walk into their office; be at meetings and VOICE your concerns or needs. ALERT: Coconino is planning on closing HUGE numbers of acres and/or routes. They WILL DO IT if YOU do not stay involved.

exactly right. the draft should be out next week is what I was told.

Sandee how do I protest the closing of a bunch of roads assigned to be closed in the Kaibab........LIke I mentioned before over 90% of the areas and roads will be closed. you hunters wont like that abit!

[offroadaz]

Is there someone we can write or email? I cant make the meetings because of work but would like to be involved

[1BLKJP]

Is there someone we can write or email? I cant make the meetings because of work but would like to be involved

Here is the link off of the national forest service site that will lead you to each of our Forest's in AZ. Along with the separate sites for each Forest.

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/map/state_list.shtml#Arizona

Apache
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/asnf/

Coconino
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/

Coronado
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coronado/

Kaibab
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/

Prescott
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/prescott/

Tonto
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/home.shtml

I have also added the separate Forest Links to the Sticky thread at the top of the page for Land Use Links.

[Sycamore]

the review process is happening in the Kaibab now and as it stands 95% of all existing roads and trails will be closed without input from hunters and us.

Rockwerks,

I haven't seen or heard that anywhere else. Can you point me to a website or newspaper article? When you say closed, do you mean permanently or during wet weather , or ?

Thanks,

Sycamore

[Sandee McCullen]

exactly right. the draft should be out next week is what I was told.

Sandee how do I protest the closing of a bunch of roads assigned to be closed in the Kaibab........LIke I mentioned before over 90% of the areas and roads will be closed. you hunters wont like that abit!

Check with the ranger district office and see when the COMMENT period ends. Be specific and forceful in getting the trails you believe should be included. Give substantive reasons WHY and how you use the trails. Ask for specific data and reasons for the proposed closures.

Problem is I believe the time (45 days) has closed...... or is VERY NEAR...... from here your next step is to follow for "final" plans and step in but you must be involved with your name on comments or specific involvement in the process.