blooddrive
01-04-2004, 02:34 PM
45314-45338
45314 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:51pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Thanks Robert... yes, I have plenty tough skin. Scott and a few others on this group who are my ABSOLUTE best friends in the whole world purchased these OR-Fab pieces of crap... I wish I had known they were going to do it so I could have stopped them. Most of them already know how I feel as this issue has been brought up before on this forum.
The bottom line is that they got a little bang for allot of buck... anytime I can keep someone from doing that; I will... especially when it deals with safety.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:Robert.McNeeley@phoenix.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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45315 From: <JNB4PLS@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 6:39am
Subject: Re: [TR] Martinez Canyon - Saturday, March 9, 2002
Mike,
My Jeep is in the shop but I can donate my services in my 4x4 Supercrew if
you think it would make it back to that area.
John Butler
45316 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:04pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Scott,
I didn't know you wanted pictures... The pictures are in the photo album at Four Wheeler's supply inside the fab shop. Next time you go there... stop by the fab shop and ask to see their photo album.
You'll see a TJ which rolled... and what you'll see is that the lateral force of the roll caused the OR-Fab sport cage to bend at the joint where the tube portion narrows down to the flat portion where they mount it to the firewall. EXACTLY where you'd expect the design to fail since the transition is weak. Look at the pictures, and then hope you never experience anything more than a nice low speed rollover.
By the way... once again, I'm not saying or even suggesting that people go my route for a cage... if they want the ultimate in protection, perhaps.... but rather, I am suggesting that they modify what they have to make it much stronger than the OR-Fab design for less money...
Thanks for bringing up Sharky's cage... I believe he paid MUCH less than I did and it is an incredible work of art. I'm pretty sure that John at Hunter Offroad has built a few TJ roll cages recently... perhaps one of his customers will let us know how much he is charging for a complete new cage.. quite honestly, I have no idea what he is charging.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:54 PM
To: 'Robert McNeeley'; joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we are friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without ever backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup is not as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that point.
Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after NASCAR type protection.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@phoenix.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what
45317 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:38pm
Subject: RE: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
And the official AZVJC color is SMURF Blue.
hahahahahahahahahhahahahah
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:28 PM
> To: swaders7; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>
>
> The official DC color is Lapis Blue.
>
> Chris K
>
> > From: "swaders7" <swaders7@y...>
> > Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:08:20 -0000
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
> >
> > Or was it Lapis blue?
> >
> > I can say that cause mine's the same color!
> >
> > ~Wade
> > 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
> >> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
> >>
> >> He hee!!!:)
> >>
> >> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
> >>> Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
> > Rd.
> >> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
> >>>
> >>> John Visic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45318 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:51pm
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
Thanks for the update. It looks like we have agroup going out there saturday
to help out.
Chris K
> From: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>
> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:05:51 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
>
> I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
> abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
> the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
> you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
> easy on him...he's trying.
>
> Thanks,
> aaron@m...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
45319 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:48pm
Subject: Re: Darner link /info
Darner Chrysler-Jeep 837 W Main MESA AZ 85201-7105 (480) 969-
4453 Club # 29176 25% on parts
I stand corrected
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> I couldn't find it on the site. Does anyone have the account # for
the
> discount, or tell me where on the site it is.
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
45320 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:08pm
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
ORU just gave me the phone number of the guy that owns it too.
This right before they told me my 8.8 was done..... anybody not
helping at the other wrenching party and getting the Toyota out is
welcome to help me put my 8.8 in, (I have no firmed up plans yet).
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...> wrote:
> I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he
didn't
> abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
> the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help
out,
> you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
> easy on him...he's trying.
>
> Thanks,
> aaron@m...
45321 From: tjsr4r0cks <dkober@g...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:27pm
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
For what it's worth.
This TJ rolled 1 3/4 times at 45 MPH stock roll cage. Pictures.
http://www.4wdlinks.com/project.htm
Dave
99 TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we
are
> friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
>
> He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without
ever
> backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup
is not
> as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that
point.
>
> Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and
> provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after
NASCAR
> type protection.
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
> To: joew@a...; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have
pissed
> off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda
> boring if we all got along :)
> Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Hmm,
>
> I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately
> since it's only marginally safe.
>
> I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over
$2000
> on his cage. Whatever Joe....
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> David,
>
> It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
>
> 1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
> 2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
>
> Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent
term
> for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money
and:
>
> 1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation
support
> beams and cross braces.
> 2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
>
> The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support
over
> the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can
get
> MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you
have.
> What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add
two
> additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them
into
> the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at
them,
> they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
>
> The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as
> those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will
> crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't
> pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While
it
> offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it
does
> so at a fairly high cost.
>
> Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if
pretty
> is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
>
> The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND
work
> MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to
Hunter
> Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
>
> 1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
> 2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
> 3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
> 4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
> 5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front
windshield
> drop tubes.
>
> You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the
> OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after
step 2.
>
> Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list...
> don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list
have
> the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be
throwing
> your money away.
>
> And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit...
yes... I
> have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it
to
> the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on
> posting in defense of this product, please do so from a
> mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in
> kind.
> Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
>
> There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may
have
> looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a
lowly
> electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering
college
> credits...
>
> Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
45322 From: Shepherd, Blake <blakeshepherd@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:42pm
Subject: RE: Test
I think this thread qualifies as being the "most off topic thread" in the
history of the AZVJC.
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Richards [mailto:r50880@e...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:39 PM
To: joew@a...
Cc: 'DesertJeep'; 'Azvjc (E-mail)'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Test
Joe,
Be careful advertizing a 35% discount, because I might be able to take
you up on that. :) (Okay, not me personally, but I might get a bonus by
saving the company millions of dollars...)
And speaking of REAL computers... I looked through the AZVJC website
statistics, and noticed that only 59 web page hits were from people
using Sun OS... I probably accounted for most of those...
darren
p.s. if you can get me a free Avant! shirt, I can do some free
advertizing for you. That, coupled with a 35% discount, may be enough
to convert us from Cadence tools to Avanti...
Joe West wrote:
>
> You're right Joey... it's a business plug...
>
> If anyone out there in AZVJC land wants to purchase Integrated Circuit
> Design software which will allow you to do physical IC Design down to Deep
> Sub micron feature sizes... please feel free to give me a call.
>
> By the way, our software only runs about $5,000,000.00 to $8,500,000.00
per
> seat (license) and I can probably get you a 35% discount for AZVJC
> members...
>
> If anyone is interested, please let me know.
>
> By the way, our software only runs on REAL computers; UNIX Workstations.
> PCs and Macs need not apply.
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:49 PM
> > To: joew@a...; Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Test
> >
> >
> > Yeah sure looks more like a business plug to me!!
> > :)
> > Joey K
> > 93YJ
> > www.desertjeep.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:04 AM
> > To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Test
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************************** ******************
> > Joe West
> > Avant! US Technical Support Engineer
> > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> >
> > Links to Avant! Support:
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/register -> register for TS
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/faq -> frequently asked questions
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/sol/search -> this month's FAQs
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/new -> submit problem report
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/search -> cases reported by me
> >
> > Southwest support aliases:
> > Apollo: swae-apollo@a...
> > Hercules: swae-herc@a...
> > Simulation: swae-sim@a...
> > Extraction: swae-starrc@a...
> > Mars: swae-mars@a...
> > ************************************************** ******************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45323 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:41am
Subject: Re: Burned toyota in martinez
Welcome aboard. Sorry about your loss. That can happen to anyone. What's
really great is that your wanting to do the right thing and get it out.
We're really happy to help.
It'll be very important to get it outta there this Sat...and clean up
everything we can, because a BLM dude will be out there Sunday to assess
Martinez - to see if the Jamboree will be permitted to use it. There has
been some active discussion at BLM to close off this area - so we need to
act fast and do as complete a clean up as possible.
FWIW, I've made several calls to BLM about allowing AzVJC to adopt it as a
trail, but they apparently are uninterested in this - perhaps because they
may wish to close it.
Again - welcome aboard, and sorry for your loss.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "veselrock" <veselrock@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:40 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Burned toyota in martinez
> Im Chris Vesley Desert Dogs member, the owner of "Flexor", the buned
> up toyota. I just want to THANK all who are going to give me a hand
> on getting my truck out and started this run up. Just a few things,
> i dont want to go into a long speech and story. Theres nothing fishy
> about what happended. Liabilty insurance is all i had avaiable as my
> insurance company already totaled out my truck 3 years ago. as my
> family put it to me "GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS" "IT HAPPENDED FOR
> A REASON" Well, as i watched $20,000 of my hard earned money and 3
> years of my life burn to the ground. I wonder what good God has/had
> in store for me. I never been here or posted before now. i joined
> myself in today. NO JEEP THOUGH. . Ive visited the azvjc site a
> bunch. I just dont want anyone to judge me the wrong way. Theres
> only so much you can do when your gas tank catches on fire. Soda and
> little water bottles only do so much. If i would of had a fire
> extinguisher, today i'd might not be sitting here and none of you
> probally ever get to know me. All i've got to say is if you ain't
> got one, put one in your truck. You may never need it, but the
> enevidible is there.Many of you may know who i am. pics. of my truck
> at jamboree are at http://www.enb4w2.rockcrawler.com/photo.html and
> other sites. God bless. Again thanks all Veselrock@m...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45324 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:43am
Subject: Re: Burned toyota in martinez
Note to all off roaders - an essential piece of equipment to take is a fire
extinguisher. If you go on any organized runs (like the Jam) or a club run,
you won't be allowed on the trail w/o one. It's common sense and really a
required piece of equipment.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
To: "veselrock" <veselrock@y...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Burned toyota in martinez
> Welcome to the club Chris. Good words there. I have an extinguisher but
> its not in the Jeep yet. I'll fix that soon.
>
> Hopefully, I can make it Saturday to meet you in person.
> Are you gonna build a new rig? If so, maybe we can help you out.
>
> Chris K
>
> On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 10:40 PM, veselrock wrote:
>
> > Im Chris Vesley Desert Dogs member, the owner of "Flexor", the buned
> > up toyota. I just want to THANK all who are going to give me a hand
> > on getting my truck out and started this run up. Just a few things,
> > i dont want to go into a long speech and story. Theres nothing fishy
> > about what happended. Liabilty insurance is all i had avaiable as my
> > insurance company already totaled out my truck 3 years ago. as my
> > family put it to me "GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS" "IT HAPPENDED FOR
> > A REASON" Well, as i watched $20,000 of my hard earned money and 3
> > years of my life burn to the ground. I wonder what good God has/had
> > in store for me. I never been here or posted before now. i joined
> > myself in today. NO JEEP THOUGH. . Ive visited the azvjc site a
> > bunch. I just dont want anyone to judge me the wrong way. Theres
> > only so much you can do when your gas tank catches on fire. Soda and
> > little water bottles only do so much. If i would of had a fire
> > extinguisher, today i'd might not be sitting here and none of you
> > probally ever get to know me. All i've got to say is if you ain't
> > got one, put one in your truck. You may never need it, but the
> > enevidible is there.Many of you may know who i am. pics. of my truck
> > at jamboree are at http://www.enb4w2.rockcrawler.com/photo.html and
> > other sites. God bless. Again thanks all Veselrock@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45325 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:45am
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Been very happy w/ my ORF cage. Since Joe is equipped for a 90mph roll, I can understand that the ORF isn't for him. For off-roading, it's great.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: JNB4PLS@aol.com ; dr_ww@hotmail.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
John,
Thats exactly why I got the ORF setup. I plan on having John at Hunter do something different in the future when I finally install the harnesses to go along with my Mastercraft Seats. This will require some mods to the cage.
Until then I like the ORF.
-----Original Message-----
From: JNB4PLS@aol.com [mailto:JNB4PLS@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:03 PM
To: dr_ww@hotmail.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dave,
If you are referring to me, the answer is no. I'm not that cheap. I agree with what Joe is saying to some degree and will eventually have a replacement cage in my Jeep. I chose to install the OR Fab set up because it does offer better protection than the stock unit, and I felt that for what I could get an OR Fab set up for it would provide some additional security until the full cage is done. I did'nt think that waiting on a full cage in lieu of getting some additional protection was the least bit logical.
Yes, I am going to spend more money in the long run but it's a damn Jeep, isn't that to be expected?
Best Regards,
John Butler
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45326 From: Rick <ricknhall@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:51am
Subject: FJ Runs this Weekend
Looks like AZVJC is going to have quite a few folks in the FJ area this weekend -
18 - Signed for Coke Ovens
7 - signed for Martinez
and another run posted for Box Canyon that isn't showing on the web site for some reason....
Rick
45327 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:48am
Subject: Re: Burned toyota in martinez / Thank you
Ubet. Glad to help. This type of thing can happen to anyone. See you
Saturday!
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "veselrock" <veselrock@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:47 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Burned toyota in martinez / Thank you
> Hi i am Chris Vesleys wife Stacy and I just want to let everyone
> whom is willing to help us know that we really appreciate the offers
> for help. chris has been devistated since his "BABY" burnt to the
> ground we were all there to watch the horrific event. we are still
> trying to cope but with all your help it really shows that people
> who love wheelin' just as much as we do are willing to come together
> when someone is in need of help ......we love all the trails and
> respect them. (JUST A FREAK THING HAPPENDED ) we are sorry for any
> inconvience to anyone. and again i thank everyone from the bottom of
> my heart for all your willingness to help...God bless and may all be
> safe out on the trails......
> sincerely
> Stacy Vesley :)
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45328 From: Ed Borawski <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 5:26am
Subject: CJ5/CJ7 Body Conversion
OK Here is a strange request. Has anybody (intentionally) cut the door openings on a CJ5 to give it the look of a CJ7/Wrangler. Although I am not into looks I would do this for a more practical reason, being it's easier to get in and out of the vehicle. My concern is if this weakens the tub any.
CoyotEddie
45329 From: azredrocker <azredrocker@y...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 5:44am
Subject: Arizona Rock Crawl results
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Arizona Rock Crawl
"A Fun Weekend On The Rocks With The Arizona Rock Crawlers"
3/3/02
Results
Jim Jewell / Chris Haranczak 87 Pts.
Jim Allen / Shawn McKinley 91 Pts.
Don Boehmer / Bernie Hageman 102 Pts
Jim Fender / Joe Cayer 134 Pts.
Dan Dunaway / Dan Boehmer 143 Pts.
Justin Muffler / Erik Turstill 146 Pts.
Mike Porter / Sam Steinman 156 Pts.
Bill Harrington / Brad McManiss 163 Pts.
Doug Cates / Clay Forrester DNF
Marc "Sharky" Kenner / M. Anderson DNF
Chad Abbott / Scott Dana DNF
Doug Archer / Mitch Ragsdale DNF
THANKS to all those outside the Arizona Rock Crawlers that helped to
make this event a success as well as a lot of fun!! With everyone's
support we're looking towards more events on this level. ARCA wants
to encourage local associations and/or clubs across the country to
initiate "Rock Crawl" events for the local level…. ARCA is also
promoting a Rule Book to cause a consistency in rules and/or classes
for Rock Crawlers across the country. Rock Crawlers could compete
in "local" level events that would qualify them into ARCA Nationals
if they chose.
If anyone has "input" regarding what they'd like to see in a local
level competition please let us know.
ArizonaRockCrawlers@yahoogroups.com
Thanks,
A.R.C.
45330 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:21am
Subject: RE: heim joint questions
I have been running my Heim joint steering for 3 years and they are just as
tight as the day I put them it. I do not run you average heim they are the
Maxi with Teflon rated at 48klbs and they also cost more then $30. They
where originally designed for Indy cars. I can get 55deg angle with these
which is more then twice what you can get with a standard rod end.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Eller [mailto:jay@t...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 7:08 AM
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] heim joint questions
Heims seem to get a little sloppy quicker than rod ends. Probably because
the joint is openly exposed to the elements where the rod ends are usually
booted to protect them. Wearing of heims seems to be more pronounced in
steering applications because it doesn't take much slop to begin to notice
it
in your steering. I ran a 3/4" heimed drag link for about 2 years. I began
to notice a little sloppiness in it towards the end, but it wasn't too
unpleasant. I think I am talking about a situation where you will get 3-5
years of good life from a heim while you might get 5-10 years from rod ends.
Not really a big deal. Just thought I would mention it.
I would go with the $30 heims if given the choice. They are usually
stronger
and made from better materials so they will last longer. Definately stay
away from the ones with Teflon lining. NOT a good idea.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45331 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 5:56am
Subject: RE: Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
I went to Friendly Jeep and Chrysler in Glendale and got a 37 tooth for
$15.40! Tera who??????
Another good example of why I'll never have a teraflex part on my jeep.
I have no idea if it is off or on. I do know it's closer, as I'm not
doing 90 on the freeway.
Easy fix, thanks Stu.
The only issue is the shift light coming on in 5th gear
David
-----Original Message-----
From: hiett710 [mailto:hiett710@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:31 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
Well gang thanks for the info.
Today I installed a 32 tooth
Spedo gear in after Installing 32" tires
with 3.73 gear ratio.
My speed in now only 2 MPH off.
When my spedo says 50 I'm doing 48.2 (garmin GPS12)
Thanks again for all the help.
Mike H. 02 TJ
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45332 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:15am
Subject: RE: axle swap done!
Warn makes the axels for the D30, chrommoly with D44 u-joints.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Gasmena [mailto:horizon@h...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:56 AM
To: joew@a...; 'paparoach85251'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] axle swap done!
Do they make a super d30 kit? Also, do they make an OX locker for a currie
ford 9"? Im getting sick and tired of my rear locker, and the
"locker-lane-changes".... :oP
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe West" <joew@a...>
To: "'paparoach85251'" <lespaparoach@m...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] axle swap done!
> Les,
>
> I was really REALLY impressed with the setup you purchased... the D44 with
> the OX and Super44 axles is quite the bulletproof setup. The quality of
the
> axle, the ease of setup for the axle control cable and the SIZE of those
> Super44 axleshafts make me believe that a Dana 60 isn't as necessary as it
> once was...
>
> For those of you who have Dana44 axles and wish to upgrade from the
factory
> setup to new gears and locker, I'd highly recommend that you consider the
OX
> Locker with the Super 44 axles... I don't know if the Super44 axles are
> available for the ARB yet, but I can tell you that I am incredibly
impressed
> with the OX setup when combined with the Super44 axles. This is one SOLID
> setup.
>
> If I had to do it over again, I'd probably skip the ARB and go with the OX
> and Super44 axles. The addition of a good solid truss to beef up those
wimpy
> TJ axle tubes and one would be hard pressed to justify the additional
weight
> and loss of ground clearance offered by a D60.
>
> By the way, Chris and Stu really did most of the work; I showed up late
and
> really didn't help you guys that much at all... Stu drove quite a distance
> to show up and Chris gave up his entire Sunday... Good job guys.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
>
> By the way Les... I think you owe Chris and his wife a NICE dinner...
<grin>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: paparoach85251 [mailto:lespaparoach@m...]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:22 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] axle swap done!
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > I just wanted to send out a great big public thank you to Chris
> > Krieg, Stu Olson and Joe West for helping me out today with my axle
> > swap. The project took pretty much all day but went without a hitch
> > for the most part. My TJ now has a brand new Dana 44 in the rear with
> > 4.10 gears, the beefy 33 spline super 44 shafts and an ox locker!
> > The front 4.10's and ox locker are being installed in my Dana 30 on
> > Tuesday by 4 wheeler's supply. I will also be having them install my
> > new JB conversions SYE and CV driveshaft to cure my serious driveline
> > vibes. After that my Jeep will be done with mods for a while as I
> > have officially depleted all of my Jeep funds.
> > Maybe now I can join some of you big dogs on some more challenging
> > trails.
> >
> > Thanks again guys for spending your Sunday wrenching on my Jeep!
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45333 From: Mike Baney <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:41am
Subject: Re: Re: Pulling the Toy
Ummm, no axles....
MIke
--- HUNTEROFFROAD@a... wrote:
> Any Chance tires could be bolted on it and strapped out? I would
> imagine it
> should roll? Or are the tires still good?
>
> Are they the original toyota axles?
>
> John K
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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45334 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:40am
Subject: Re: Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
Huh? What is the relationship with Teraflex and a speedo gear? and how is
that related to their products? which, IMO are one of the 2 best out there
(the other being RE).
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...>
Tera who??????
> Another good example of why I'll never have a teraflex part on my jeep.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hiett710 [mailto:hiett710@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
>
>
> Well gang thanks for the info.
> Today I installed a 32 tooth
> Spedo gear in after Installing 32" tires
> with 3.73 gear ratio.
> My speed in now only 2 MPH off.
> When my spedo says 50 I'm doing 48.2 (garmin GPS12)
> Thanks again for all the help.
> Mike H. 02 TJ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45335 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:47am
Subject: RE: Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
Tera sells speedo gears for $28.05 after a discount. Hmmmmmmmm twice
the cost??????!!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@c...]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:41 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; David R. W. Withers
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
Huh? What is the relationship with Teraflex and a speedo gear? and how
is that related to their products? which, IMO are one of the 2 best out
there (the other being RE).
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...>
Tera who??????
> Another good example of why I'll never have a teraflex part on my
> jeep.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hiett710 [mailto:hiett710@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
>
>
> Well gang thanks for the info.
> Today I installed a 32 tooth
> Spedo gear in after Installing 32" tires
> with 3.73 gear ratio.
> My speed in now only 2 MPH off.
> When my spedo says 50 I'm doing 48.2 (garmin GPS12)
> Thanks again for all the help.
> Mike H. 02 TJ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45336 From: Shepherd, Blake <blakeshepherd@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:51am
Subject: RE: CJ5/CJ7 Body Conversion
I have the same problem. I'm 6'4" and the CJ5 stands on 35's and 6" of lift. Kinda hard get in and out. Cutting the doors would be a good idea, but then the seats would still be in the way.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Borawski [mailto:coyoteddie@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 6:26 AM
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: [az_vjc] CJ5/CJ7 Body Conversion
OK Here is a strange request. Has anybody (intentionally) cut the door openings on a CJ5 to give it the look of a CJ7/Wrangler. Although I am not into looks I would do this for a more practical reason, being it's easier to get in and out of the vehicle. My concern is if this weakens the tub any.
CoyotEddie
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45337 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:59am
Subject: Re: KICK DOWN
Tom:
You didn't say what highway speed it was that you wanted it to kick down from. Check the vacuum connection at the right rear of the intake manifold. Mine was a solid metal line plumbed into a fitting but you could have a flex connection that is leaking. Definately fix any vacuum leaks anyway including the heater controls. If you want to come over to my place let me know and we can check it out. I am working on the Camo Cow all this week (and probably into the next one too.)
Gary Holmes
TRobertsRN wrote:
I have a 78 Cherokee with a 360 4 barrel Holly on adapter plate to 2 barrel manifold with a TH400 transmission. When I stomp on the gas in the city it kicks down as it should. At highway speed it still passes well when I hit the gas due to the 4 barrel but the transmission doesn't kick down. I believe the vacuum lines to my heater controls are not connected. Is this my likely cause or should I be looking elsewhere?
Tom Roberts
Gilbert Arizona
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
45338 From: tjsr4r0cks <dkober@g...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 7:03am
Subject: Re: Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
And RE sells a hand throttle that cost $30 but can be made for about
$8. Hmmmmmm three times the cost????!!!! What's the point? Does RE
suck because of the hand throttle?
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> Tera sells speedo gears for $28.05 after a discount. Hmmmmmmmm
twice
> the cost??????!!!!!!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:41 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...; David R. W. Withers
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
>
>
> Huh? What is the relationship with Teraflex and a speedo gear? and
how
> is that related to their products? which, IMO are one of the 2 best
out
> there (the other being RE).
>
> Doug
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...>
> Tera who??????
> > Another good example of why I'll never have a teraflex part on my
> > jeep.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hiett710 [mailto:hiett710@y...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:31 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
> >
> >
> > Well gang thanks for the info.
> > Today I installed a 32 tooth
> > Spedo gear in after Installing 32" tires
> > with 3.73 gear ratio.
> > My speed in now only 2 MPH off.
> > When my spedo says 50 I'm doing 48.2 (garmin GPS12)
> > Thanks again for all the help.
> > Mike H. 02 TJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
45314 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:51pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Thanks Robert... yes, I have plenty tough skin. Scott and a few others on this group who are my ABSOLUTE best friends in the whole world purchased these OR-Fab pieces of crap... I wish I had known they were going to do it so I could have stopped them. Most of them already know how I feel as this issue has been brought up before on this forum.
The bottom line is that they got a little bang for allot of buck... anytime I can keep someone from doing that; I will... especially when it deals with safety.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:Robert.McNeeley@phoenix.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
45315 From: <JNB4PLS@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 6:39am
Subject: Re: [TR] Martinez Canyon - Saturday, March 9, 2002
Mike,
My Jeep is in the shop but I can donate my services in my 4x4 Supercrew if
you think it would make it back to that area.
John Butler
45316 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:04pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Scott,
I didn't know you wanted pictures... The pictures are in the photo album at Four Wheeler's supply inside the fab shop. Next time you go there... stop by the fab shop and ask to see their photo album.
You'll see a TJ which rolled... and what you'll see is that the lateral force of the roll caused the OR-Fab sport cage to bend at the joint where the tube portion narrows down to the flat portion where they mount it to the firewall. EXACTLY where you'd expect the design to fail since the transition is weak. Look at the pictures, and then hope you never experience anything more than a nice low speed rollover.
By the way... once again, I'm not saying or even suggesting that people go my route for a cage... if they want the ultimate in protection, perhaps.... but rather, I am suggesting that they modify what they have to make it much stronger than the OR-Fab design for less money...
Thanks for bringing up Sharky's cage... I believe he paid MUCH less than I did and it is an incredible work of art. I'm pretty sure that John at Hunter Offroad has built a few TJ roll cages recently... perhaps one of his customers will let us know how much he is charging for a complete new cage.. quite honestly, I have no idea what he is charging.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:54 PM
To: 'Robert McNeeley'; joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we are friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without ever backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup is not as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that point.
Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after NASCAR type protection.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@phoenix.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what
45317 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:38pm
Subject: RE: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
And the official AZVJC color is SMURF Blue.
hahahahahahahahahhahahahah
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:28 PM
> To: swaders7; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>
>
> The official DC color is Lapis Blue.
>
> Chris K
>
> > From: "swaders7" <swaders7@y...>
> > Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:08:20 -0000
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
> >
> > Or was it Lapis blue?
> >
> > I can say that cause mine's the same color!
> >
> > ~Wade
> > 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
> >> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
> >>
> >> He hee!!!:)
> >>
> >> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
> >>> Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
> > Rd.
> >> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
> >>>
> >>> John Visic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45318 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:51pm
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
Thanks for the update. It looks like we have agroup going out there saturday
to help out.
Chris K
> From: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>
> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:05:51 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
>
> I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
> abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
> the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
> you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
> easy on him...he's trying.
>
> Thanks,
> aaron@m...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
45319 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:48pm
Subject: Re: Darner link /info
Darner Chrysler-Jeep 837 W Main MESA AZ 85201-7105 (480) 969-
4453 Club # 29176 25% on parts
I stand corrected
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> I couldn't find it on the site. Does anyone have the account # for
the
> discount, or tell me where on the site it is.
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
45320 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:08pm
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
ORU just gave me the phone number of the guy that owns it too.
This right before they told me my 8.8 was done..... anybody not
helping at the other wrenching party and getting the Toyota out is
welcome to help me put my 8.8 in, (I have no firmed up plans yet).
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...> wrote:
> I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he
didn't
> abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
> the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help
out,
> you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
> easy on him...he's trying.
>
> Thanks,
> aaron@m...
45321 From: tjsr4r0cks <dkober@g...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:27pm
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
For what it's worth.
This TJ rolled 1 3/4 times at 45 MPH stock roll cage. Pictures.
http://www.4wdlinks.com/project.htm
Dave
99 TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we
are
> friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
>
> He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without
ever
> backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup
is not
> as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that
point.
>
> Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and
> provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after
NASCAR
> type protection.
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
> To: joew@a...; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have
pissed
> off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda
> boring if we all got along :)
> Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Hmm,
>
> I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately
> since it's only marginally safe.
>
> I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over
$2000
> on his cage. Whatever Joe....
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> David,
>
> It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
>
> 1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
> 2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
>
> Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent
term
> for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money
and:
>
> 1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation
support
> beams and cross braces.
> 2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
>
> The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support
over
> the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can
get
> MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you
have.
> What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add
two
> additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them
into
> the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at
them,
> they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
>
> The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as
> those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will
> crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't
> pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While
it
> offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it
does
> so at a fairly high cost.
>
> Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if
pretty
> is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
>
> The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND
work
> MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to
Hunter
> Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
>
> 1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
> 2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
> 3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
> 4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
> 5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front
windshield
> drop tubes.
>
> You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the
> OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after
step 2.
>
> Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list...
> don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list
have
> the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be
throwing
> your money away.
>
> And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit...
yes... I
> have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it
to
> the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on
> posting in defense of this product, please do so from a
> mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in
> kind.
> Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
>
> There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may
have
> looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a
lowly
> electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering
college
> credits...
>
> Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
45322 From: Shepherd, Blake <blakeshepherd@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:42pm
Subject: RE: Test
I think this thread qualifies as being the "most off topic thread" in the
history of the AZVJC.
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Richards [mailto:r50880@e...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:39 PM
To: joew@a...
Cc: 'DesertJeep'; 'Azvjc (E-mail)'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Test
Joe,
Be careful advertizing a 35% discount, because I might be able to take
you up on that. :) (Okay, not me personally, but I might get a bonus by
saving the company millions of dollars...)
And speaking of REAL computers... I looked through the AZVJC website
statistics, and noticed that only 59 web page hits were from people
using Sun OS... I probably accounted for most of those...
darren
p.s. if you can get me a free Avant! shirt, I can do some free
advertizing for you. That, coupled with a 35% discount, may be enough
to convert us from Cadence tools to Avanti...
Joe West wrote:
>
> You're right Joey... it's a business plug...
>
> If anyone out there in AZVJC land wants to purchase Integrated Circuit
> Design software which will allow you to do physical IC Design down to Deep
> Sub micron feature sizes... please feel free to give me a call.
>
> By the way, our software only runs about $5,000,000.00 to $8,500,000.00
per
> seat (license) and I can probably get you a 35% discount for AZVJC
> members...
>
> If anyone is interested, please let me know.
>
> By the way, our software only runs on REAL computers; UNIX Workstations.
> PCs and Macs need not apply.
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:49 PM
> > To: joew@a...; Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Test
> >
> >
> > Yeah sure looks more like a business plug to me!!
> > :)
> > Joey K
> > 93YJ
> > www.desertjeep.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:04 AM
> > To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Test
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************************** ******************
> > Joe West
> > Avant! US Technical Support Engineer
> > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> >
> > Links to Avant! Support:
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/register -> register for TS
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/faq -> frequently asked questions
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/sol/search -> this month's FAQs
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/new -> submit problem report
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/search -> cases reported by me
> >
> > Southwest support aliases:
> > Apollo: swae-apollo@a...
> > Hercules: swae-herc@a...
> > Simulation: swae-sim@a...
> > Extraction: swae-starrc@a...
> > Mars: swae-mars@a...
> > ************************************************** ******************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45323 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:41am
Subject: Re: Burned toyota in martinez
Welcome aboard. Sorry about your loss. That can happen to anyone. What's
really great is that your wanting to do the right thing and get it out.
We're really happy to help.
It'll be very important to get it outta there this Sat...and clean up
everything we can, because a BLM dude will be out there Sunday to assess
Martinez - to see if the Jamboree will be permitted to use it. There has
been some active discussion at BLM to close off this area - so we need to
act fast and do as complete a clean up as possible.
FWIW, I've made several calls to BLM about allowing AzVJC to adopt it as a
trail, but they apparently are uninterested in this - perhaps because they
may wish to close it.
Again - welcome aboard, and sorry for your loss.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "veselrock" <veselrock@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:40 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Burned toyota in martinez
> Im Chris Vesley Desert Dogs member, the owner of "Flexor", the buned
> up toyota. I just want to THANK all who are going to give me a hand
> on getting my truck out and started this run up. Just a few things,
> i dont want to go into a long speech and story. Theres nothing fishy
> about what happended. Liabilty insurance is all i had avaiable as my
> insurance company already totaled out my truck 3 years ago. as my
> family put it to me "GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS" "IT HAPPENDED FOR
> A REASON" Well, as i watched $20,000 of my hard earned money and 3
> years of my life burn to the ground. I wonder what good God has/had
> in store for me. I never been here or posted before now. i joined
> myself in today. NO JEEP THOUGH. . Ive visited the azvjc site a
> bunch. I just dont want anyone to judge me the wrong way. Theres
> only so much you can do when your gas tank catches on fire. Soda and
> little water bottles only do so much. If i would of had a fire
> extinguisher, today i'd might not be sitting here and none of you
> probally ever get to know me. All i've got to say is if you ain't
> got one, put one in your truck. You may never need it, but the
> enevidible is there.Many of you may know who i am. pics. of my truck
> at jamboree are at http://www.enb4w2.rockcrawler.com/photo.html and
> other sites. God bless. Again thanks all Veselrock@m...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45324 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:43am
Subject: Re: Burned toyota in martinez
Note to all off roaders - an essential piece of equipment to take is a fire
extinguisher. If you go on any organized runs (like the Jam) or a club run,
you won't be allowed on the trail w/o one. It's common sense and really a
required piece of equipment.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
To: "veselrock" <veselrock@y...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Burned toyota in martinez
> Welcome to the club Chris. Good words there. I have an extinguisher but
> its not in the Jeep yet. I'll fix that soon.
>
> Hopefully, I can make it Saturday to meet you in person.
> Are you gonna build a new rig? If so, maybe we can help you out.
>
> Chris K
>
> On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 10:40 PM, veselrock wrote:
>
> > Im Chris Vesley Desert Dogs member, the owner of "Flexor", the buned
> > up toyota. I just want to THANK all who are going to give me a hand
> > on getting my truck out and started this run up. Just a few things,
> > i dont want to go into a long speech and story. Theres nothing fishy
> > about what happended. Liabilty insurance is all i had avaiable as my
> > insurance company already totaled out my truck 3 years ago. as my
> > family put it to me "GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS" "IT HAPPENDED FOR
> > A REASON" Well, as i watched $20,000 of my hard earned money and 3
> > years of my life burn to the ground. I wonder what good God has/had
> > in store for me. I never been here or posted before now. i joined
> > myself in today. NO JEEP THOUGH. . Ive visited the azvjc site a
> > bunch. I just dont want anyone to judge me the wrong way. Theres
> > only so much you can do when your gas tank catches on fire. Soda and
> > little water bottles only do so much. If i would of had a fire
> > extinguisher, today i'd might not be sitting here and none of you
> > probally ever get to know me. All i've got to say is if you ain't
> > got one, put one in your truck. You may never need it, but the
> > enevidible is there.Many of you may know who i am. pics. of my truck
> > at jamboree are at http://www.enb4w2.rockcrawler.com/photo.html and
> > other sites. God bless. Again thanks all Veselrock@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45325 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:45am
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Been very happy w/ my ORF cage. Since Joe is equipped for a 90mph roll, I can understand that the ORF isn't for him. For off-roading, it's great.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Kruize
To: JNB4PLS@aol.com ; dr_ww@hotmail.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
John,
Thats exactly why I got the ORF setup. I plan on having John at Hunter do something different in the future when I finally install the harnesses to go along with my Mastercraft Seats. This will require some mods to the cage.
Until then I like the ORF.
-----Original Message-----
From: JNB4PLS@aol.com [mailto:JNB4PLS@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:03 PM
To: dr_ww@hotmail.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dave,
If you are referring to me, the answer is no. I'm not that cheap. I agree with what Joe is saying to some degree and will eventually have a replacement cage in my Jeep. I chose to install the OR Fab set up because it does offer better protection than the stock unit, and I felt that for what I could get an OR Fab set up for it would provide some additional security until the full cage is done. I did'nt think that waiting on a full cage in lieu of getting some additional protection was the least bit logical.
Yes, I am going to spend more money in the long run but it's a damn Jeep, isn't that to be expected?
Best Regards,
John Butler
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45326 From: Rick <ricknhall@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:51am
Subject: FJ Runs this Weekend
Looks like AZVJC is going to have quite a few folks in the FJ area this weekend -
18 - Signed for Coke Ovens
7 - signed for Martinez
and another run posted for Box Canyon that isn't showing on the web site for some reason....
Rick
45327 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 4:48am
Subject: Re: Burned toyota in martinez / Thank you
Ubet. Glad to help. This type of thing can happen to anyone. See you
Saturday!
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "veselrock" <veselrock@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:47 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Burned toyota in martinez / Thank you
> Hi i am Chris Vesleys wife Stacy and I just want to let everyone
> whom is willing to help us know that we really appreciate the offers
> for help. chris has been devistated since his "BABY" burnt to the
> ground we were all there to watch the horrific event. we are still
> trying to cope but with all your help it really shows that people
> who love wheelin' just as much as we do are willing to come together
> when someone is in need of help ......we love all the trails and
> respect them. (JUST A FREAK THING HAPPENDED ) we are sorry for any
> inconvience to anyone. and again i thank everyone from the bottom of
> my heart for all your willingness to help...God bless and may all be
> safe out on the trails......
> sincerely
> Stacy Vesley :)
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45328 From: Ed Borawski <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 5:26am
Subject: CJ5/CJ7 Body Conversion
OK Here is a strange request. Has anybody (intentionally) cut the door openings on a CJ5 to give it the look of a CJ7/Wrangler. Although I am not into looks I would do this for a more practical reason, being it's easier to get in and out of the vehicle. My concern is if this weakens the tub any.
CoyotEddie
45329 From: azredrocker <azredrocker@y...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 5:44am
Subject: Arizona Rock Crawl results
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Arizona Rock Crawl
"A Fun Weekend On The Rocks With The Arizona Rock Crawlers"
3/3/02
Results
Jim Jewell / Chris Haranczak 87 Pts.
Jim Allen / Shawn McKinley 91 Pts.
Don Boehmer / Bernie Hageman 102 Pts
Jim Fender / Joe Cayer 134 Pts.
Dan Dunaway / Dan Boehmer 143 Pts.
Justin Muffler / Erik Turstill 146 Pts.
Mike Porter / Sam Steinman 156 Pts.
Bill Harrington / Brad McManiss 163 Pts.
Doug Cates / Clay Forrester DNF
Marc "Sharky" Kenner / M. Anderson DNF
Chad Abbott / Scott Dana DNF
Doug Archer / Mitch Ragsdale DNF
THANKS to all those outside the Arizona Rock Crawlers that helped to
make this event a success as well as a lot of fun!! With everyone's
support we're looking towards more events on this level. ARCA wants
to encourage local associations and/or clubs across the country to
initiate "Rock Crawl" events for the local level…. ARCA is also
promoting a Rule Book to cause a consistency in rules and/or classes
for Rock Crawlers across the country. Rock Crawlers could compete
in "local" level events that would qualify them into ARCA Nationals
if they chose.
If anyone has "input" regarding what they'd like to see in a local
level competition please let us know.
ArizonaRockCrawlers@yahoogroups.com
Thanks,
A.R.C.
45330 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:21am
Subject: RE: heim joint questions
I have been running my Heim joint steering for 3 years and they are just as
tight as the day I put them it. I do not run you average heim they are the
Maxi with Teflon rated at 48klbs and they also cost more then $30. They
where originally designed for Indy cars. I can get 55deg angle with these
which is more then twice what you can get with a standard rod end.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Eller [mailto:jay@t...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 7:08 AM
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] heim joint questions
Heims seem to get a little sloppy quicker than rod ends. Probably because
the joint is openly exposed to the elements where the rod ends are usually
booted to protect them. Wearing of heims seems to be more pronounced in
steering applications because it doesn't take much slop to begin to notice
it
in your steering. I ran a 3/4" heimed drag link for about 2 years. I began
to notice a little sloppiness in it towards the end, but it wasn't too
unpleasant. I think I am talking about a situation where you will get 3-5
years of good life from a heim while you might get 5-10 years from rod ends.
Not really a big deal. Just thought I would mention it.
I would go with the $30 heims if given the choice. They are usually
stronger
and made from better materials so they will last longer. Definately stay
away from the ones with Teflon lining. NOT a good idea.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45331 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 5:56am
Subject: RE: Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
I went to Friendly Jeep and Chrysler in Glendale and got a 37 tooth for
$15.40! Tera who??????
Another good example of why I'll never have a teraflex part on my jeep.
I have no idea if it is off or on. I do know it's closer, as I'm not
doing 90 on the freeway.
Easy fix, thanks Stu.
The only issue is the shift light coming on in 5th gear
David
-----Original Message-----
From: hiett710 [mailto:hiett710@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:31 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
Well gang thanks for the info.
Today I installed a 32 tooth
Spedo gear in after Installing 32" tires
with 3.73 gear ratio.
My speed in now only 2 MPH off.
When my spedo says 50 I'm doing 48.2 (garmin GPS12)
Thanks again for all the help.
Mike H. 02 TJ
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45332 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:15am
Subject: RE: axle swap done!
Warn makes the axels for the D30, chrommoly with D44 u-joints.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Gasmena [mailto:horizon@h...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:56 AM
To: joew@a...; 'paparoach85251'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] axle swap done!
Do they make a super d30 kit? Also, do they make an OX locker for a currie
ford 9"? Im getting sick and tired of my rear locker, and the
"locker-lane-changes".... :oP
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe West" <joew@a...>
To: "'paparoach85251'" <lespaparoach@m...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] axle swap done!
> Les,
>
> I was really REALLY impressed with the setup you purchased... the D44 with
> the OX and Super44 axles is quite the bulletproof setup. The quality of
the
> axle, the ease of setup for the axle control cable and the SIZE of those
> Super44 axleshafts make me believe that a Dana 60 isn't as necessary as it
> once was...
>
> For those of you who have Dana44 axles and wish to upgrade from the
factory
> setup to new gears and locker, I'd highly recommend that you consider the
OX
> Locker with the Super 44 axles... I don't know if the Super44 axles are
> available for the ARB yet, but I can tell you that I am incredibly
impressed
> with the OX setup when combined with the Super44 axles. This is one SOLID
> setup.
>
> If I had to do it over again, I'd probably skip the ARB and go with the OX
> and Super44 axles. The addition of a good solid truss to beef up those
wimpy
> TJ axle tubes and one would be hard pressed to justify the additional
weight
> and loss of ground clearance offered by a D60.
>
> By the way, Chris and Stu really did most of the work; I showed up late
and
> really didn't help you guys that much at all... Stu drove quite a distance
> to show up and Chris gave up his entire Sunday... Good job guys.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
>
> By the way Les... I think you owe Chris and his wife a NICE dinner...
<grin>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: paparoach85251 [mailto:lespaparoach@m...]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:22 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] axle swap done!
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > I just wanted to send out a great big public thank you to Chris
> > Krieg, Stu Olson and Joe West for helping me out today with my axle
> > swap. The project took pretty much all day but went without a hitch
> > for the most part. My TJ now has a brand new Dana 44 in the rear with
> > 4.10 gears, the beefy 33 spline super 44 shafts and an ox locker!
> > The front 4.10's and ox locker are being installed in my Dana 30 on
> > Tuesday by 4 wheeler's supply. I will also be having them install my
> > new JB conversions SYE and CV driveshaft to cure my serious driveline
> > vibes. After that my Jeep will be done with mods for a while as I
> > have officially depleted all of my Jeep funds.
> > Maybe now I can join some of you big dogs on some more challenging
> > trails.
> >
> > Thanks again guys for spending your Sunday wrenching on my Jeep!
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45333 From: Mike Baney <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:41am
Subject: Re: Re: Pulling the Toy
Ummm, no axles....
MIke
--- HUNTEROFFROAD@a... wrote:
> Any Chance tires could be bolted on it and strapped out? I would
> imagine it
> should roll? Or are the tires still good?
>
> Are they the original toyota axles?
>
> John K
>
__________________________________________________
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45334 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:40am
Subject: Re: Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
Huh? What is the relationship with Teraflex and a speedo gear? and how is
that related to their products? which, IMO are one of the 2 best out there
(the other being RE).
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...>
Tera who??????
> Another good example of why I'll never have a teraflex part on my jeep.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hiett710 [mailto:hiett710@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
>
>
> Well gang thanks for the info.
> Today I installed a 32 tooth
> Spedo gear in after Installing 32" tires
> with 3.73 gear ratio.
> My speed in now only 2 MPH off.
> When my spedo says 50 I'm doing 48.2 (garmin GPS12)
> Thanks again for all the help.
> Mike H. 02 TJ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45335 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:47am
Subject: RE: Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
Tera sells speedo gears for $28.05 after a discount. Hmmmmmmmm twice
the cost??????!!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@c...]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:41 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; David R. W. Withers
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
Huh? What is the relationship with Teraflex and a speedo gear? and how
is that related to their products? which, IMO are one of the 2 best out
there (the other being RE).
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...>
Tera who??????
> Another good example of why I'll never have a teraflex part on my
> jeep.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hiett710 [mailto:hiett710@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
>
>
> Well gang thanks for the info.
> Today I installed a 32 tooth
> Spedo gear in after Installing 32" tires
> with 3.73 gear ratio.
> My speed in now only 2 MPH off.
> When my spedo says 50 I'm doing 48.2 (garmin GPS12)
> Thanks again for all the help.
> Mike H. 02 TJ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45336 From: Shepherd, Blake <blakeshepherd@c...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:51am
Subject: RE: CJ5/CJ7 Body Conversion
I have the same problem. I'm 6'4" and the CJ5 stands on 35's and 6" of lift. Kinda hard get in and out. Cutting the doors would be a good idea, but then the seats would still be in the way.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Borawski [mailto:coyoteddie@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 6:26 AM
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: [az_vjc] CJ5/CJ7 Body Conversion
OK Here is a strange request. Has anybody (intentionally) cut the door openings on a CJ5 to give it the look of a CJ7/Wrangler. Although I am not into looks I would do this for a more practical reason, being it's easier to get in and out of the vehicle. My concern is if this weakens the tub any.
CoyotEddie
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45337 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 6:59am
Subject: Re: KICK DOWN
Tom:
You didn't say what highway speed it was that you wanted it to kick down from. Check the vacuum connection at the right rear of the intake manifold. Mine was a solid metal line plumbed into a fitting but you could have a flex connection that is leaking. Definately fix any vacuum leaks anyway including the heater controls. If you want to come over to my place let me know and we can check it out. I am working on the Camo Cow all this week (and probably into the next one too.)
Gary Holmes
TRobertsRN wrote:
I have a 78 Cherokee with a 360 4 barrel Holly on adapter plate to 2 barrel manifold with a TH400 transmission. When I stomp on the gas in the city it kicks down as it should. At highway speed it still passes well when I hit the gas due to the 4 barrel but the transmission doesn't kick down. I believe the vacuum lines to my heater controls are not connected. Is this my likely cause or should I be looking elsewhere?
Tom Roberts
Gilbert Arizona
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
45338 From: tjsr4r0cks <dkober@g...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 7:03am
Subject: Re: Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
And RE sells a hand throttle that cost $30 but can be made for about
$8. Hmmmmmm three times the cost????!!!! What's the point? Does RE
suck because of the hand throttle?
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> Tera sells speedo gears for $28.05 after a discount. Hmmmmmmmm
twice
> the cost??????!!!!!!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:41 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...; David R. W. Withers
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
>
>
> Huh? What is the relationship with Teraflex and a speedo gear? and
how
> is that related to their products? which, IMO are one of the 2 best
out
> there (the other being RE).
>
> Doug
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...>
> Tera who??????
> > Another good example of why I'll never have a teraflex part on my
> > jeep.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hiett710 [mailto:hiett710@y...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:31 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Spedo help FINAL UPDATE
> >
> >
> > Well gang thanks for the info.
> > Today I installed a 32 tooth
> > Spedo gear in after Installing 32" tires
> > with 3.73 gear ratio.
> > My speed in now only 2 MPH off.
> > When my spedo says 50 I'm doing 48.2 (garmin GPS12)
> > Thanks again for all the help.
> > Mike H. 02 TJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >