blooddrive
01-04-2004, 02:32 PM
45189-45213
45189 From: Robert McNeeley <robert.mcneeley@p...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:03pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Thats cool. I see your point as i don't have two grand to spend but I also see his... why not get the most bang for your buck.
Robert aka Fat Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:54 PM
To: 'Robert McNeeley'; joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we are friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without ever backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup is not as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that point.
Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after NASCAR type protection.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@phoenix.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
45190 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:23pm
Subject: Leaf Spring Susp?
Im looking to build a Jeep here soon (hence the frame inquiry) I was
wondering about the Old Man Emu Springs. Ive heard they are really flexy and
work rather well from write ups and things But I was curious if there is
anyone who runs this and knows first hand how it performs
This would be for either a YJ or a CJ (not sure which suspension to use yet)
Any other Suspension that would work well in a Spring Over configuration ???
While Im at it if anyone else has any ideas or expeirences (Good or Bad)
shoot me an email cuz i could use some input (kinda doing this on the fly)
But im starting from the ground up (hence frame and suspension are mentioned
first)
~Robert Holmes
__________________________________________________ _______________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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45191 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
The official DC color is Lapis Blue.
Chris K
> From: "swaders7" <swaders7@y...>
> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:08:20 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>
> Or was it Lapis blue?
>
> I can say that cause mine's the same color!
>
> ~Wade
> 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
>> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
>>
>> He hee!!!:)
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
>>> Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
> Rd.
>> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
>>>
>>> John Visic
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
45192 From: Darren Richards <r50880@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Test
Joe,
Be careful advertizing a 35% discount, because I might be able to take
you up on that. :) (Okay, not me personally, but I might get a bonus by
saving the company millions of dollars...)
And speaking of REAL computers... I looked through the AZVJC website
statistics, and noticed that only 59 web page hits were from people
using Sun OS... I probably accounted for most of those...
darren
p.s. if you can get me a free Avant! shirt, I can do some free
advertizing for you. That, coupled with a 35% discount, may be enough
to convert us from Cadence tools to Avanti...
Joe West wrote:
>
> You're right Joey... it's a business plug...
>
> If anyone out there in AZVJC land wants to purchase Integrated Circuit
> Design software which will allow you to do physical IC Design down to Deep
> Sub micron feature sizes... please feel free to give me a call.
>
> By the way, our software only runs about $5,000,000.00 to $8,500,000.00 per
> seat (license) and I can probably get you a 35% discount for AZVJC
> members...
>
> If anyone is interested, please let me know.
>
> By the way, our software only runs on REAL computers; UNIX Workstations.
> PCs and Macs need not apply.
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:49 PM
> > To: joew@a...; Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Test
> >
> >
> > Yeah sure looks more like a business plug to me!!
> > :)
> > Joey K
> > 93YJ
> > www.desertjeep.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:04 AM
> > To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Test
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************************** ******************
> > Joe West
> > Avant! US Technical Support Engineer
> > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> >
> > Links to Avant! Support:
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/register -> register for TS
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/faq -> frequently asked questions
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/sol/search -> this month's FAQs
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/new -> submit problem report
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/search -> cases reported by me
> >
> > Southwest support aliases:
> > Apollo: swae-apollo@a...
> > Hercules: swae-herc@a...
> > Simulation: swae-sim@a...
> > Extraction: swae-starrc@a...
> > Mars: swae-mars@a...
> > ************************************************** ******************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45193 From: Rick <ricknhall@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:40pm
Subject: Re: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Talk to John 1st before you make a decision. He will explain the differences in the bars and quote you a fair price for what you need. I had him "add" to my stock bar and have not regretted it. It took a little while to get used to the drop bars in front but after a while you really don't notice it (and I have a standard).
Rick
>
> From: "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2002/03/06 Wed PM 03:53:16 EST
> To: <joew@avanticorp.com>,
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
> What about lowering the windshield? welding the sport bar seem would
> prevent this. Although I do have access to a welder.
> Taking tubular steel to the floor would make a 6'3" person have even
> more difficulties getting in and out?
> Is John really that cheap?
> I think I'll stay away from it though. I want safety not looks
> Thanks Joe
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> David,
>
> It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
>
> 1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
> 2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
>
> Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term
> for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
>
> 1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support
> beams and cross braces.
> 2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
>
> The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over
> the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get
> MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have.
> What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two
> additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into
> the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them,
> they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
>
> The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as
> those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will
> crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't
> pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it
> offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does
> so at a fairly high cost.
>
> Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty
> is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
>
> The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work
> MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter
> Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
>
> 1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
> 2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
> 3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
> 4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
> 5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield
> drop tubes.
>
> You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the
> OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
>
> Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list...
> don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have
> the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing
> your money away.
>
> And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I
> have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to
> the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on
> posting in defense of this product, please do so from a
> mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in
> kind.
> Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
>
> There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have
> looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly
> electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college
> credits...
>
> Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
What about lowering the windshield? welding the sport bar seem would prevent this. Although I do have access to a welder.
Taking tubular steel to the floor would make a 6'3" person have even more difficulties getting in and out?
Is John really that cheap?
I think I'll stay away from it though. I want safety not looks
Thanks Joe
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45194 From: tjsr4r0cks <dkober@g...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:44pm
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Stock TJ roll over, 45 MPH. Pictures.
http://www.4wdlinks.com/project.htm
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we
are
> friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
>
> He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without
ever
> backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup
is not
> as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that
point.
>
> Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and
> provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after
NASCAR
> type protection.
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
> To: joew@a...; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have
pissed
> off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda
> boring if we all got along :)
> Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Hmm,
>
> I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately
> since it's only marginally safe.
>
> I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over
$2000
> on his cage. Whatever Joe....
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> David,
>
> It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
>
> 1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
> 2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
>
> Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent
term
> for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money
and:
>
> 1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation
support
> beams and cross braces.
> 2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
>
> The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support
over
> the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can
get
> MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you
have.
> What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add
two
> additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them
into
> the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at
them,
> they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
>
> The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as
> those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will
> crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't
> pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While
it
> offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it
does
> so at a fairly high cost.
>
> Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if
pretty
> is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
>
> The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND
work
> MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to
Hunter
> Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
>
> 1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
> 2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
> 3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
> 4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
> 5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front
windshield
> drop tubes.
>
> You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the
> OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after
step 2.
>
> Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list...
> don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list
have
> the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be
throwing
> your money away.
>
> And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit...
yes... I
> have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it
to
> the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on
> posting in defense of this product, please do so from a
> mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in
> kind.
> Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
>
> There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may
have
> looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a
lowly
> electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering
college
> credits...
>
> Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
45195 From: oveson2 <oveson2@j...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:48pm
Subject: Welding
Any experience with Jeeps? Bumpers, Roll Cages, etc???
Lyle Oveson
45196 From: Darren Richards <r50880@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:51pm
Subject: Re: Test
Oops, I meant to hit the "reply" button, not the "reply all" button.
Ah, well. I might as well send this reply to the whole group again to
proliferate this OT thread and ruffle a few more feathers. <grin>
darren
"Shepherd, Blake" wrote:
>
> I think this thread qualifies as being the "most off topic thread" in the
> history of the AZVJC.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Richards [mailto:r50880@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:39 PM
> To: joew@a...
> Cc: 'DesertJeep'; 'Azvjc (E-mail)'
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Test
>
> Joe,
>
> Be careful advertizing a 35% discount, because I might be able to take
> you up on that. :) (Okay, not me personally, but I might get a bonus by
> saving the company millions of dollars...)
>
> And speaking of REAL computers... I looked through the AZVJC website
> statistics, and noticed that only 59 web page hits were from people
> using Sun OS... I probably accounted for most of those...
>
> darren
>
> p.s. if you can get me a free Avant! shirt, I can do some free
> advertizing for you. That, coupled with a 35% discount, may be enough
> to convert us from Cadence tools to Avanti...
>
> Joe West wrote:
> >
> > You're right Joey... it's a business plug...
> >
> > If anyone out there in AZVJC land wants to purchase Integrated Circuit
> > Design software which will allow you to do physical IC Design down to Deep
> > Sub micron feature sizes... please feel free to give me a call.
> >
> > By the way, our software only runs about $5,000,000.00 to $8,500,000.00
> per
> > seat (license) and I can probably get you a 35% discount for AZVJC
> > members...
> >
> > If anyone is interested, please let me know.
> >
> > By the way, our software only runs on REAL computers; UNIX Workstations.
> > PCs and Macs need not apply.
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:49 PM
> > > To: joew@a...; Azvjc (E-mail)
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Test
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah sure looks more like a business plug to me!!
> > > :)
> > > Joey K
> > > 93YJ
> > > www.desertjeep.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:04 AM
> > > To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Test
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ************************************************** ******************
> > > Joe West
> > > Avant! US Technical Support Engineer
> > > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> > >
> > > Links to Avant! Support:
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/register -> register for TS
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/faq -> frequently asked questions
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/sol/search -> this month's FAQs
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/new -> submit problem report
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/search -> cases reported by me
> > >
> > > Southwest support aliases:
> > > Apollo: swae-apollo@a...
> > > Hercules: swae-herc@a...
> > > Simulation: swae-sim@a...
> > > Extraction: swae-starrc@a...
> > > Mars: swae-mars@a...
> > > ************************************************** ******************
45197 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:02pm
Subject: [FS] 15" x 10" Wheels
Price: $250 obo.
Contact: Michael Smith 480-792-9057 or msmith658@yahoo.com
I have four 15x10 American Eagle 117 wheels for sale. They are the 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern. They can be seen at: http://www.americaneaglewheel.com/image/wheels/117.jpg
and also in the AZVJC gallery. They do have some rock rash.
Michael Smith
45198 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
Yeah, well at least its not the "Everybody And Their Aunt Marge Has" Moss
Green
> From: "Joe West" <joew@a...>
> Reply-To: <joew@a...>
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:38:14 -0700
> To: "'Chris Krieg'" <rv6a@m...>, "'swaders7'" <swaders7@y...>,
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>
> And the official AZVJC color is SMURF Blue.
> hahahahahahahahahhahahahah
>
> Joe
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:28 PM
>> To: swaders7; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>>
>>
>> The official DC color is Lapis Blue.
>>
>> Chris K
>>
>>> From: "swaders7" <swaders7@y...>
>>> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:08:20 -0000
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>>>
>>> Or was it Lapis blue?
>>>
>>> I can say that cause mine's the same color!
>>>
>>> ~Wade
>>> 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
>>>
>>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
>>>> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
>>>>
>>>> He hee!!!:)
>>>>
>>>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
>>>>> Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
>>> Rd.
>>>> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Visic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
45199 From: jaylalib <jaylalib1@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:11pm
Subject: JB SYE Install
So, I am looking for any helpful advice or pointers or don't do
this....
I am getting ready to tackle this on Saturday. It is looking like I
do have some help, but Scott Thomas and Bob Peck and I have not done
this install before. So any helpful advice would be much
apreciated. Is there any other tools I need besides some snap ring
pliers?
TIA
Jason LaLiberty
99' TJ
www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
45200 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:12pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
That is about what I'd expect out of the stock setup. I've seen pics of
crashes where the windshield folded back quite a bit more than that.
Even with the stock bars the occupant was safer IMO than your average
convertible driver. Whenever I ride in my friends Miata I think about
this. I'm still trying to convince him to at least add a rear bar behind
the seats.
Joe emailed me saying the ORF roll pictures are available in an album at
4Wheelers. Does anybody want to see if they can scan and post them?
I'm not expecting any of these cages to be 100% resistant to damage.
Even Sharky would have to kiss his *** goodbye if he were to be hit by a
railroad locomotive ;)
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: tjsr4r0cks [mailto:dkober@g...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:44 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stock TJ roll over, 45 MPH. Pictures.
http://www.4wdlinks.com/project.htm
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we
are
> friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
>
> He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without
ever
> backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup
is not
> as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that
point.
>
> Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and
> provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after
NASCAR
> type protection.
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
> To: joew@a...; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have
pissed
> off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda
> boring if we all got along :) Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Hmm,
>
> I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately
> since it's only marginally safe.
>
> I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over
$2000
> on his cage. Whatever Joe....
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> David,
>
> It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
>
> 1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
> 2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
>
> Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent
term
> for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money
and:
>
> 1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation
support
> beams and cross braces.
> 2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
>
> The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support
over
> the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can
get
> MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you
have.
> What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add
two
> additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them
into
> the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at
them,
> they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
>
> The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as
> those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will
> crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't
> pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While
it
> offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it
does
> so at a fairly high cost.
>
> Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if
pretty
> is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
>
> The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND
work
> MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to
Hunter
> Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
>
> 1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
> 2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar. 3. Add
> additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor. 4. Add a
> header cross-brace at the front windshield. 5. Tie roll bar to vehicle
> interfaces to frame at the front
windshield
> drop tubes.
>
> You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the
> OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after
step 2.
>
> Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list...
> don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list
have
> the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be
throwing
> your money away.
>
> And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit...
yes... I
> have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it
to
> the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on
> posting in defense of this product, please do so from a
> mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in
> kind. Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand
> unopposed.
>
> There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may
have
> looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a
lowly
> electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering
college
> credits...
>
> Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45201 From: tom lafrance <tlafrance@j...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:12pm
Subject: TJ roll over pics
Jeez, they totaled THAT???? I would have had the front end and
windshield frame replaced ASAP, bought it back and continued the build
up. Total downtime would have been 72 hrs ;-)
Tom LaFrance
>Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:44:27 -0000
>From: "tjsr4r0cks" <dkober@g...>
>Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
>Stock TJ roll over, 45 MPH. Pictures.
>http://www.4wdlinks.com/project.htm
-----------------------------------------------
"Wax is for Corvettes - Dirt is for Jeeps"
45202 From: Adam DuBose <afdinaz@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:29pm
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
From talking with him. He is sorry that it looks as though he abondoned it.
His dad and him were in it when I caught fire. They exited and attempted to
extinguish but it was too late. The vehicle was then drug a short distance
to get it off the trail. The accessories that were removed was done by him
to prevent them from being stolen. Sounded like a nice guy.
Adam
----- Original Message -----
From: "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...>
To: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
> Did 'ja ask him what happened, how he got in that spot to begin with. Did
he
> go out there alone, originally, and/or try that run with a vehicle that's
> not "built for it" ?? Just curious if there were any explainations on
what
> happened and how.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:05 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
>
>
> > I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
> > abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
> > the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
> > you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
> > easy on him...he's trying.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > aaron@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45203 From: Mike Beach <mikebeach2002@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:21pm
Subject: Warn X8000i not spooling
I just got my Master pull line, and wanted to put it on. But my winch isnt spooling out. What can I do to fix it? Has anyone else had any problems like this? Let me know what you guys think I should do.
Thanks
Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
45204 From: dthorton_2000 <dt_horton@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:31pm
Subject: Re: JB SYE Install
James Towle did a nice write up on Stu's site:
http://www.stu-offroad.com/sye/sye-1.htm
A rather complete write up at www.rockcrawler.com:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/JB_Wood_crosstrainer/
index.asp
Dan
--- In az_vjc@y..., "jaylalib" <jaylalib1@c...> wrote:
> So, I am looking for any helpful advice or pointers or don't do
> this....
>
> I am getting ready to tackle this on Saturday. It is looking like I
> do have some help, but Scott Thomas and Bob Peck and I
have not done
> this install before. So any helpful advice would be much
> apreciated. Is there any other tools I need besides some snap
ring
> pliers?
>
> TIA
>
> Jason LaLiberty
> 99' TJ
> www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
45205 From: jaylalib <jaylalib1@c...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 7:17pm
Subject: Trail Rack Sold....
45206 From: pmioffroad <PRSTGMTRCR@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:54pm
Subject: FS 1985 cj7
1985 cj7 laredo 4.2 5spd dana300 dana 30 amc20. black,black hardtop
and doors,3in blackdiamond lift,quick discos,new 33/12.5/15 all
terrians on 15x10 black rockcrawlers.new p/s hoses and box,cast
valvecover,rebuilt carb,naw exhaust including cat,runs and drives
nice,but needs somes cosmetics.asking $5500 call 602-750-9303 or
return post
45207 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:04pm
Subject: [FS] BFG Muds, 33x12.5x15 with 5x5.5 wheels $250
Price: $250 bucks
Contact: Cannon Mix
tires are still for sale. they are used, and the wheels are brand new. about 40% tread remaining. They come with the wheels, you can resell the wheels and make back what you paid for the tires...What a screamin' deal.
Cannon Mix
45208 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 7:38pm
Subject: [TR] Sycamore Creek - Wednesday, March 6, 2002 - Reminder
Hello All,
Mike Hiett is leading a Sycamore Creek trail run on Wednesday, March 6, 2002.
When: Arround 10 am
Where: Gilbert and the B-line intersection (mesa dump)
Rating: 3.5+
Length: most of the day
CB Channel: 4
Testing out my new lift and 32/11.50/15 tires.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
45209 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:13pm
Subject: Re: Warn X8000i not spooling
I cant tell you why its not spooling but when you change the cable double
check you have it on the right way. I know it sounds elementry but When my
dad and I were changing the winch cable on the Scrambler we/I spooled it the
wrong way result no more winch :(
>From: Mike Beach <mikebeach2002@y...>
>To: AZVJC <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [az_vjc] Warn X8000i not spooling
>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:21:50 -0800 (PST)
>
>I just got my Master pull line, and wanted to put it on. But my winch isnt
>spooling out. What can I do to fix it? Has anyone else had any problems
>like this? Let me know what you guys think I should do.
>Thanks
>Mike
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
45210 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:18pm
Subject: RE: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
Ya... now you know why I put stickers on it!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:02 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'swaders7'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>
>
> Yeah, well at least its not the "Everybody And Their Aunt
> Marge Has" Moss
> Green
>
>
> > From: "Joe West" <joew@a...>
> > Reply-To: <joew@a...>
> > Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:38:14 -0700
> > To: "'Chris Krieg'" <rv6a@m...>, "'swaders7'"
> <swaders7@y...>,
> > <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
> >
> > And the official AZVJC color is SMURF Blue.
> > hahahahahahahahahhahahahah
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:28 PM
> >> To: swaders7; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
> >>
> >>
> >> The official DC color is Lapis Blue.
> >>
> >> Chris K
> >>
> >>> From: "swaders7" <swaders7@y...>
> >>> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:08:20 -0000
> >>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
> >>>
> >>> Or was it Lapis blue?
> >>>
> >>> I can say that cause mine's the same color!
> >>>
> >>> ~Wade
> >>> 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
> >>>
> >>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
> >>>> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
> >>>>
> >>>> He hee!!!:)
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
> >>>>> Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
> >>> Rd.
> >>>> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John Visic
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45211 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 7:50pm
Subject: Drinking on the trail
While the server is back up, let's put this topic behind us too, shall we?
Aww, c'mon, it'll be fun!
Please do not respond to me directly concerning this. Let's all share with
the group!
Personally, I'll have a few whenever and wherever I feel like it. I would
like to think I use good judgment in deciding when and where. I like to
relax on the trail, If someone finds it just absolutely abhorred, that's too
bad, at least until they work up the balls (figuratively speaking) to say
something to me, at which point, I will gladly leave my present company.
I think if you are an idiot or a dweeb, or you just can't control yourself,
you shouldn't drink on the trail or anywhere else for that matter. Honestly,
I think there are some people who just can't seem to handle and control
themselves as well as others. If you have trouble deciding if you fit in one
of these categories (or all of them) let me know and I'll be happy to decide
for you. I also think that if you are an idiot or a dweeb, you shouldn't
waste your time trying to flame me, your opinion doesn't really matter
anyway, (especially not to me) you should know this by now, because no one
has ever taken you serious your whole life. If has appeared someone has
taken you serious, then trust me, you are delusional.
If you do fit into one or more of these categories, chances are you'll do
stupid things that will irritate the people around you. Some of the people
around you are sissies and won't have the courage to tell you your an ***.
Rest assured if I'm around, and you are irritating (Drinking or not) I will
tell you. That's just the kind of guy I am. I would also expect that in
regards to me from anyone else who deserves respect on this list. I say this
because some of you may not deserve the respect you think you do.
Before you point the finger at me, please note there are three more pointing
back at you!
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
45212 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:24pm
Subject: RE: Drinking on the trail
Bill,
Have you been drinking at the Keyboard AGAIN?
;)
Joe
>
> While the server is back up, let's put this topic behind us
> too, shall we?
> Aww, c'mon, it'll be fun!
> Please do not respond to me directly concerning this. Let's
> all share with
> the group!
> Personally, I'll have a few whenever and wherever I feel
> like it. I would
> like to think I use good judgment in deciding when and where.
<snip>
45213 From: hiett710 <hiett710@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Darner link /info
Make sure you tell them in advance you are from AZVJC
They are more than willing to give the discount but get really P.O.'d
when they have to RE-figure your order. Today I called in to see if
they had a certain part. They said they had it and I told them I was
on my way. When I got there they had it all rang up and ready to go
and then I said "can I have my discount?" and ohh boy did I open a
can of worms. Anyhow just a heads up!
Mike H.
02 Yellow TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> I couldn't find it on the site. Does anyone have the account # for
the
> discount, or tell me where on the site it is.
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
45189 From: Robert McNeeley <robert.mcneeley@p...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:03pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Thats cool. I see your point as i don't have two grand to spend but I also see his... why not get the most bang for your buck.
Robert aka Fat Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:54 PM
To: 'Robert McNeeley'; joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we are friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without ever backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup is not as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that point.
Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after NASCAR type protection.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@phoenix.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
45190 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:23pm
Subject: Leaf Spring Susp?
Im looking to build a Jeep here soon (hence the frame inquiry) I was
wondering about the Old Man Emu Springs. Ive heard they are really flexy and
work rather well from write ups and things But I was curious if there is
anyone who runs this and knows first hand how it performs
This would be for either a YJ or a CJ (not sure which suspension to use yet)
Any other Suspension that would work well in a Spring Over configuration ???
While Im at it if anyone else has any ideas or expeirences (Good or Bad)
shoot me an email cuz i could use some input (kinda doing this on the fly)
But im starting from the ground up (hence frame and suspension are mentioned
first)
~Robert Holmes
__________________________________________________ _______________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
45191 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
The official DC color is Lapis Blue.
Chris K
> From: "swaders7" <swaders7@y...>
> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:08:20 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>
> Or was it Lapis blue?
>
> I can say that cause mine's the same color!
>
> ~Wade
> 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
>> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
>>
>> He hee!!!:)
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
>>> Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
> Rd.
>> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
>>>
>>> John Visic
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
45192 From: Darren Richards <r50880@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Test
Joe,
Be careful advertizing a 35% discount, because I might be able to take
you up on that. :) (Okay, not me personally, but I might get a bonus by
saving the company millions of dollars...)
And speaking of REAL computers... I looked through the AZVJC website
statistics, and noticed that only 59 web page hits were from people
using Sun OS... I probably accounted for most of those...
darren
p.s. if you can get me a free Avant! shirt, I can do some free
advertizing for you. That, coupled with a 35% discount, may be enough
to convert us from Cadence tools to Avanti...
Joe West wrote:
>
> You're right Joey... it's a business plug...
>
> If anyone out there in AZVJC land wants to purchase Integrated Circuit
> Design software which will allow you to do physical IC Design down to Deep
> Sub micron feature sizes... please feel free to give me a call.
>
> By the way, our software only runs about $5,000,000.00 to $8,500,000.00 per
> seat (license) and I can probably get you a 35% discount for AZVJC
> members...
>
> If anyone is interested, please let me know.
>
> By the way, our software only runs on REAL computers; UNIX Workstations.
> PCs and Macs need not apply.
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:49 PM
> > To: joew@a...; Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Test
> >
> >
> > Yeah sure looks more like a business plug to me!!
> > :)
> > Joey K
> > 93YJ
> > www.desertjeep.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:04 AM
> > To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Test
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************************** ******************
> > Joe West
> > Avant! US Technical Support Engineer
> > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> >
> > Links to Avant! Support:
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/register -> register for TS
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/faq -> frequently asked questions
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/sol/search -> this month's FAQs
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/new -> submit problem report
> > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/search -> cases reported by me
> >
> > Southwest support aliases:
> > Apollo: swae-apollo@a...
> > Hercules: swae-herc@a...
> > Simulation: swae-sim@a...
> > Extraction: swae-starrc@a...
> > Mars: swae-mars@a...
> > ************************************************** ******************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45193 From: Rick <ricknhall@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:40pm
Subject: Re: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Talk to John 1st before you make a decision. He will explain the differences in the bars and quote you a fair price for what you need. I had him "add" to my stock bar and have not regretted it. It took a little while to get used to the drop bars in front but after a while you really don't notice it (and I have a standard).
Rick
>
> From: "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2002/03/06 Wed PM 03:53:16 EST
> To: <joew@avanticorp.com>,
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
> What about lowering the windshield? welding the sport bar seem would
> prevent this. Although I do have access to a welder.
> Taking tubular steel to the floor would make a 6'3" person have even
> more difficulties getting in and out?
> Is John really that cheap?
> I think I'll stay away from it though. I want safety not looks
> Thanks Joe
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> David,
>
> It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
>
> 1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
> 2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
>
> Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term
> for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
>
> 1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support
> beams and cross braces.
> 2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
>
> The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over
> the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get
> MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have.
> What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two
> additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into
> the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them,
> they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
>
> The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as
> those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will
> crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't
> pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it
> offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does
> so at a fairly high cost.
>
> Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty
> is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
>
> The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work
> MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter
> Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
>
> 1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
> 2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
> 3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
> 4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
> 5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield
> drop tubes.
>
> You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the
> OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
>
> Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list...
> don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have
> the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing
> your money away.
>
> And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I
> have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to
> the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on
> posting in defense of this product, please do so from a
> mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in
> kind.
> Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
>
> There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have
> looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly
> electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college
> credits...
>
> Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
What about lowering the windshield? welding the sport bar seem would prevent this. Although I do have access to a welder.
Taking tubular steel to the floor would make a 6'3" person have even more difficulties getting in and out?
Is John really that cheap?
I think I'll stay away from it though. I want safety not looks
Thanks Joe
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45194 From: tjsr4r0cks <dkober@g...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:44pm
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Stock TJ roll over, 45 MPH. Pictures.
http://www.4wdlinks.com/project.htm
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we
are
> friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
>
> He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without
ever
> backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup
is not
> as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that
point.
>
> Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and
> provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after
NASCAR
> type protection.
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
> To: joew@a...; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have
pissed
> off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda
> boring if we all got along :)
> Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Hmm,
>
> I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately
> since it's only marginally safe.
>
> I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over
$2000
> on his cage. Whatever Joe....
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> David,
>
> It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
>
> 1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
> 2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
>
> Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent
term
> for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money
and:
>
> 1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation
support
> beams and cross braces.
> 2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
>
> The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support
over
> the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can
get
> MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you
have.
> What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add
two
> additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them
into
> the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at
them,
> they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
>
> The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as
> those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will
> crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't
> pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While
it
> offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it
does
> so at a fairly high cost.
>
> Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if
pretty
> is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
>
> The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND
work
> MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to
Hunter
> Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
>
> 1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
> 2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
> 3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
> 4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
> 5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front
windshield
> drop tubes.
>
> You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the
> OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after
step 2.
>
> Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list...
> don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list
have
> the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be
throwing
> your money away.
>
> And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit...
yes... I
> have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it
to
> the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on
> posting in defense of this product, please do so from a
> mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in
> kind.
> Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
>
> There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may
have
> looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a
lowly
> electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering
college
> credits...
>
> Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
45195 From: oveson2 <oveson2@j...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:48pm
Subject: Welding
Any experience with Jeeps? Bumpers, Roll Cages, etc???
Lyle Oveson
45196 From: Darren Richards <r50880@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:51pm
Subject: Re: Test
Oops, I meant to hit the "reply" button, not the "reply all" button.
Ah, well. I might as well send this reply to the whole group again to
proliferate this OT thread and ruffle a few more feathers. <grin>
darren
"Shepherd, Blake" wrote:
>
> I think this thread qualifies as being the "most off topic thread" in the
> history of the AZVJC.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Richards [mailto:r50880@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:39 PM
> To: joew@a...
> Cc: 'DesertJeep'; 'Azvjc (E-mail)'
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Test
>
> Joe,
>
> Be careful advertizing a 35% discount, because I might be able to take
> you up on that. :) (Okay, not me personally, but I might get a bonus by
> saving the company millions of dollars...)
>
> And speaking of REAL computers... I looked through the AZVJC website
> statistics, and noticed that only 59 web page hits were from people
> using Sun OS... I probably accounted for most of those...
>
> darren
>
> p.s. if you can get me a free Avant! shirt, I can do some free
> advertizing for you. That, coupled with a 35% discount, may be enough
> to convert us from Cadence tools to Avanti...
>
> Joe West wrote:
> >
> > You're right Joey... it's a business plug...
> >
> > If anyone out there in AZVJC land wants to purchase Integrated Circuit
> > Design software which will allow you to do physical IC Design down to Deep
> > Sub micron feature sizes... please feel free to give me a call.
> >
> > By the way, our software only runs about $5,000,000.00 to $8,500,000.00
> per
> > seat (license) and I can probably get you a 35% discount for AZVJC
> > members...
> >
> > If anyone is interested, please let me know.
> >
> > By the way, our software only runs on REAL computers; UNIX Workstations.
> > PCs and Macs need not apply.
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:49 PM
> > > To: joew@a...; Azvjc (E-mail)
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Test
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah sure looks more like a business plug to me!!
> > > :)
> > > Joey K
> > > 93YJ
> > > www.desertjeep.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:04 AM
> > > To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Test
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ************************************************** ******************
> > > Joe West
> > > Avant! US Technical Support Engineer
> > > 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> > > Tempe, Arizona 85282
> > > Office: (480) 921-3732
> > > Cell: (602) 524-7632
> > > Fax: (480) 921-8883
> > >
> > > Links to Avant! Support:
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/register -> register for TS
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/faq -> frequently asked questions
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/sol/search -> this month's FAQs
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/new -> submit problem report
> > > http://www.avanticorp.com/case/search -> cases reported by me
> > >
> > > Southwest support aliases:
> > > Apollo: swae-apollo@a...
> > > Hercules: swae-herc@a...
> > > Simulation: swae-sim@a...
> > > Extraction: swae-starrc@a...
> > > Mars: swae-mars@a...
> > > ************************************************** ******************
45197 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:02pm
Subject: [FS] 15" x 10" Wheels
Price: $250 obo.
Contact: Michael Smith 480-792-9057 or msmith658@yahoo.com
I have four 15x10 American Eagle 117 wheels for sale. They are the 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern. They can be seen at: http://www.americaneaglewheel.com/image/wheels/117.jpg
and also in the AZVJC gallery. They do have some rock rash.
Michael Smith
45198 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
Yeah, well at least its not the "Everybody And Their Aunt Marge Has" Moss
Green
> From: "Joe West" <joew@a...>
> Reply-To: <joew@a...>
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:38:14 -0700
> To: "'Chris Krieg'" <rv6a@m...>, "'swaders7'" <swaders7@y...>,
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>
> And the official AZVJC color is SMURF Blue.
> hahahahahahahahahhahahahah
>
> Joe
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:28 PM
>> To: swaders7; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>>
>>
>> The official DC color is Lapis Blue.
>>
>> Chris K
>>
>>> From: "swaders7" <swaders7@y...>
>>> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:08:20 -0000
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>>>
>>> Or was it Lapis blue?
>>>
>>> I can say that cause mine's the same color!
>>>
>>> ~Wade
>>> 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
>>>
>>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
>>>> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
>>>>
>>>> He hee!!!:)
>>>>
>>>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
>>>>> Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
>>> Rd.
>>>> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Visic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
45199 From: jaylalib <jaylalib1@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:11pm
Subject: JB SYE Install
So, I am looking for any helpful advice or pointers or don't do
this....
I am getting ready to tackle this on Saturday. It is looking like I
do have some help, but Scott Thomas and Bob Peck and I have not done
this install before. So any helpful advice would be much
apreciated. Is there any other tools I need besides some snap ring
pliers?
TIA
Jason LaLiberty
99' TJ
www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
45200 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:12pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
That is about what I'd expect out of the stock setup. I've seen pics of
crashes where the windshield folded back quite a bit more than that.
Even with the stock bars the occupant was safer IMO than your average
convertible driver. Whenever I ride in my friends Miata I think about
this. I'm still trying to convince him to at least add a rear bar behind
the seats.
Joe emailed me saying the ORF roll pictures are available in an album at
4Wheelers. Does anybody want to see if they can scan and post them?
I'm not expecting any of these cages to be 100% resistant to damage.
Even Sharky would have to kiss his *** goodbye if he were to be hit by a
railroad locomotive ;)
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: tjsr4r0cks [mailto:dkober@g...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:44 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stock TJ roll over, 45 MPH. Pictures.
http://www.4wdlinks.com/project.htm
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we
are
> friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
>
> He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without
ever
> backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup
is not
> as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that
point.
>
> Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and
> provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after
NASCAR
> type protection.
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
> To: joew@a...; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have
pissed
> off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda
> boring if we all got along :) Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport
bar
>
>
> Hmm,
>
> I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately
> since it's only marginally safe.
>
> I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over
$2000
> on his cage. Whatever Joe....
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <file://C:\Documents and Settings\Scott\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Signatures\./testsig_files/image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> David,
>
> It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
>
> 1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
> 2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
>
> Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent
term
> for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money
and:
>
> 1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation
support
> beams and cross braces.
> 2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
>
> The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support
over
> the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can
get
> MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you
have.
> What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add
two
> additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them
into
> the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at
them,
> they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
>
> The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as
> those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will
> crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't
> pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While
it
> offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it
does
> so at a fairly high cost.
>
> Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if
pretty
> is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
>
> The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND
work
> MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to
Hunter
> Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
>
> 1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
> 2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar. 3. Add
> additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor. 4. Add a
> header cross-brace at the front windshield. 5. Tie roll bar to vehicle
> interfaces to frame at the front
windshield
> drop tubes.
>
> You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the
> OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after
step 2.
>
> Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list...
> don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list
have
> the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be
throwing
> your money away.
>
> And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit...
yes... I
> have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it
to
> the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on
> posting in defense of this product, please do so from a
> mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in
> kind. Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand
> unopposed.
>
> There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may
have
> looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a
lowly
> electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering
college
> credits...
>
> Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
>
>
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45201 From: tom lafrance <tlafrance@j...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:12pm
Subject: TJ roll over pics
Jeez, they totaled THAT???? I would have had the front end and
windshield frame replaced ASAP, bought it back and continued the build
up. Total downtime would have been 72 hrs ;-)
Tom LaFrance
>Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:44:27 -0000
>From: "tjsr4r0cks" <dkober@g...>
>Subject: Re: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
>Stock TJ roll over, 45 MPH. Pictures.
>http://www.4wdlinks.com/project.htm
-----------------------------------------------
"Wax is for Corvettes - Dirt is for Jeeps"
45202 From: Adam DuBose <afdinaz@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:29pm
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
From talking with him. He is sorry that it looks as though he abondoned it.
His dad and him were in it when I caught fire. They exited and attempted to
extinguish but it was too late. The vehicle was then drug a short distance
to get it off the trail. The accessories that were removed was done by him
to prevent them from being stolen. Sounded like a nice guy.
Adam
----- Original Message -----
From: "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...>
To: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
> Did 'ja ask him what happened, how he got in that spot to begin with. Did
he
> go out there alone, originally, and/or try that run with a vehicle that's
> not "built for it" ?? Just curious if there were any explainations on
what
> happened and how.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:05 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
>
>
> > I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
> > abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
> > the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
> > you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
> > easy on him...he's trying.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > aaron@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45203 From: Mike Beach <mikebeach2002@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:21pm
Subject: Warn X8000i not spooling
I just got my Master pull line, and wanted to put it on. But my winch isnt spooling out. What can I do to fix it? Has anyone else had any problems like this? Let me know what you guys think I should do.
Thanks
Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
45204 From: dthorton_2000 <dt_horton@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:31pm
Subject: Re: JB SYE Install
James Towle did a nice write up on Stu's site:
http://www.stu-offroad.com/sye/sye-1.htm
A rather complete write up at www.rockcrawler.com:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/JB_Wood_crosstrainer/
index.asp
Dan
--- In az_vjc@y..., "jaylalib" <jaylalib1@c...> wrote:
> So, I am looking for any helpful advice or pointers or don't do
> this....
>
> I am getting ready to tackle this on Saturday. It is looking like I
> do have some help, but Scott Thomas and Bob Peck and I
have not done
> this install before. So any helpful advice would be much
> apreciated. Is there any other tools I need besides some snap
ring
> pliers?
>
> TIA
>
> Jason LaLiberty
> 99' TJ
> www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
45205 From: jaylalib <jaylalib1@c...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 7:17pm
Subject: Trail Rack Sold....
45206 From: pmioffroad <PRSTGMTRCR@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:54pm
Subject: FS 1985 cj7
1985 cj7 laredo 4.2 5spd dana300 dana 30 amc20. black,black hardtop
and doors,3in blackdiamond lift,quick discos,new 33/12.5/15 all
terrians on 15x10 black rockcrawlers.new p/s hoses and box,cast
valvecover,rebuilt carb,naw exhaust including cat,runs and drives
nice,but needs somes cosmetics.asking $5500 call 602-750-9303 or
return post
45207 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:04pm
Subject: [FS] BFG Muds, 33x12.5x15 with 5x5.5 wheels $250
Price: $250 bucks
Contact: Cannon Mix
tires are still for sale. they are used, and the wheels are brand new. about 40% tread remaining. They come with the wheels, you can resell the wheels and make back what you paid for the tires...What a screamin' deal.
Cannon Mix
45208 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 7:38pm
Subject: [TR] Sycamore Creek - Wednesday, March 6, 2002 - Reminder
Hello All,
Mike Hiett is leading a Sycamore Creek trail run on Wednesday, March 6, 2002.
When: Arround 10 am
Where: Gilbert and the B-line intersection (mesa dump)
Rating: 3.5+
Length: most of the day
CB Channel: 4
Testing out my new lift and 32/11.50/15 tires.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
45209 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:13pm
Subject: Re: Warn X8000i not spooling
I cant tell you why its not spooling but when you change the cable double
check you have it on the right way. I know it sounds elementry but When my
dad and I were changing the winch cable on the Scrambler we/I spooled it the
wrong way result no more winch :(
>From: Mike Beach <mikebeach2002@y...>
>To: AZVJC <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [az_vjc] Warn X8000i not spooling
>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:21:50 -0800 (PST)
>
>I just got my Master pull line, and wanted to put it on. But my winch isnt
>spooling out. What can I do to fix it? Has anyone else had any problems
>like this? Let me know what you guys think I should do.
>Thanks
>Mike
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
45210 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:18pm
Subject: RE: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
Ya... now you know why I put stickers on it!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:02 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'swaders7'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
>
>
> Yeah, well at least its not the "Everybody And Their Aunt
> Marge Has" Moss
> Green
>
>
> > From: "Joe West" <joew@a...>
> > Reply-To: <joew@a...>
> > Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:38:14 -0700
> > To: "'Chris Krieg'" <rv6a@m...>, "'swaders7'"
> <swaders7@y...>,
> > <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
> >
> > And the official AZVJC color is SMURF Blue.
> > hahahahahahahahahhahahahah
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:28 PM
> >> To: swaders7; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
> >>
> >>
> >> The official DC color is Lapis Blue.
> >>
> >> Chris K
> >>
> >>> From: "swaders7" <swaders7@y...>
> >>> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:08:20 -0000
> >>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
> >>>
> >>> Or was it Lapis blue?
> >>>
> >>> I can say that cause mine's the same color!
> >>>
> >>> ~Wade
> >>> 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
> >>>
> >>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
> >>>> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
> >>>>
> >>>> He hee!!!:)
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
> >>>>> Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
> >>> Rd.
> >>>> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John Visic
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
45211 From: Bill Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 7:50pm
Subject: Drinking on the trail
While the server is back up, let's put this topic behind us too, shall we?
Aww, c'mon, it'll be fun!
Please do not respond to me directly concerning this. Let's all share with
the group!
Personally, I'll have a few whenever and wherever I feel like it. I would
like to think I use good judgment in deciding when and where. I like to
relax on the trail, If someone finds it just absolutely abhorred, that's too
bad, at least until they work up the balls (figuratively speaking) to say
something to me, at which point, I will gladly leave my present company.
I think if you are an idiot or a dweeb, or you just can't control yourself,
you shouldn't drink on the trail or anywhere else for that matter. Honestly,
I think there are some people who just can't seem to handle and control
themselves as well as others. If you have trouble deciding if you fit in one
of these categories (or all of them) let me know and I'll be happy to decide
for you. I also think that if you are an idiot or a dweeb, you shouldn't
waste your time trying to flame me, your opinion doesn't really matter
anyway, (especially not to me) you should know this by now, because no one
has ever taken you serious your whole life. If has appeared someone has
taken you serious, then trust me, you are delusional.
If you do fit into one or more of these categories, chances are you'll do
stupid things that will irritate the people around you. Some of the people
around you are sissies and won't have the courage to tell you your an ***.
Rest assured if I'm around, and you are irritating (Drinking or not) I will
tell you. That's just the kind of guy I am. I would also expect that in
regards to me from anyone else who deserves respect on this list. I say this
because some of you may not deserve the respect you think you do.
Before you point the finger at me, please note there are three more pointing
back at you!
Bill Mish
1955 Willys CJ3B
45212 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:24pm
Subject: RE: Drinking on the trail
Bill,
Have you been drinking at the Keyboard AGAIN?
;)
Joe
>
> While the server is back up, let's put this topic behind us
> too, shall we?
> Aww, c'mon, it'll be fun!
> Please do not respond to me directly concerning this. Let's
> all share with
> the group!
> Personally, I'll have a few whenever and wherever I feel
> like it. I would
> like to think I use good judgment in deciding when and where.
<snip>
45213 From: hiett710 <hiett710@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Darner link /info
Make sure you tell them in advance you are from AZVJC
They are more than willing to give the discount but get really P.O.'d
when they have to RE-figure your order. Today I called in to see if
they had a certain part. They said they had it and I told them I was
on my way. When I got there they had it all rang up and ready to go
and then I said "can I have my discount?" and ohh boy did I open a
can of worms. Anyhow just a heads up!
Mike H.
02 Yellow TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> I couldn't find it on the site. Does anyone have the account # for
the
> discount, or tell me where on the site it is.
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992