blooddrive
01-04-2004, 02:32 PM
45164-45188
45164 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:04am
Subject: [FS] Looking for a vacuum booster for my 80 cj5
Price: ???
Contact: c_estle@hotmail.com
Chad Estle
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45165 From: driveshaft37 <aarondickinson@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:05am
Subject: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
easy on him...he's trying.
Thanks,
aaron@m...
45166 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:09am
Subject: Re: Project Frame?
Just curious why you want a CJ frame. A YJ frame is fully boxed
and is stronger than a CJ frame.
-Roger
Robert Holmes wrote:
>
> Im looking for a frame to start building a project trail Jeep on.
> Idealy I want a CJ-7 frame. Does anyone have one or know where to get one.
>
> ~Robert Holmes
45167 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:16am
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
If hes out there saturday Id almost guarentee about 6 other people from this
group would go help and bring stuff. I would and will but can only offer man
power and a not very well built wagoneer
>From: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
>Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:05:51 -0000
>
>I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
>abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
>the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
>you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
>easy on him...he's trying.
>
>Thanks,
>aaron@m...
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
~Robert Holmes
__________________________________________________ _______________
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45168 From: swaders7 <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 5:08pm
Subject: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
Or was it Lapis blue?
I can say that cause mine's the same color!
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
>
> He hee!!!:)
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
> > Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
Rd.
> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
> >
> > John Visic
45169 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:52am
Subject: RE: Test
You're right Joey... it's a business plug...
If anyone out there in AZVJC land wants to purchase Integrated Circuit
Design software which will allow you to do physical IC Design down to Deep
Sub micron feature sizes... please feel free to give me a call.
By the way, our software only runs about $5,000,000.00 to $8,500,000.00 per
seat (license) and I can probably get you a 35% discount for AZVJC
members...
If anyone is interested, please let me know.
By the way, our software only runs on REAL computers; UNIX Workstations.
PCs and Macs need not apply.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:49 PM
> To: joew@a...; Azvjc (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Test
>
>
> Yeah sure looks more like a business plug to me!!
> :)
> Joey K
> 93YJ
> www.desertjeep.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:04 AM
> To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> Subject: [az_vjc] Test
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************** ******************
> Joe West
> Avant! US Technical Support Engineer
> 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> Tempe, Arizona 85282
> Office: (480) 921-3732
> Cell: (602) 524-7632
> Fax: (480) 921-8883
>
> Links to Avant! Support:
> http://www.avanticorp.com/register -> register for TS
> http://www.avanticorp.com/faq -> frequently asked questions
> http://www.avanticorp.com/sol/search -> this month's FAQs
> http://www.avanticorp.com/case/new -> submit problem report
> http://www.avanticorp.com/case/search -> cases reported by me
>
> Southwest support aliases:
> Apollo: swae-apollo@a...
> Hercules: swae-herc@a...
> Simulation: swae-sim@a...
> Extraction: swae-starrc@a...
> Mars: swae-mars@a...
> ************************************************** ******************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45170 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:09am
Subject: Pulling the Toy
I am going to contact the owner, who is up for helping this
Saturday? We will need a trailer, and a 4x4 to pull it. Would be
nice if a couple of winches are there too.
Mike Baney
45171 From: Joel Chong <jollywell@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:13am
Subject: Re: ANYBODY NEED ANY WELDING DONE?
Anybody has the contact number for John Rabenius in the East Valley?
Joel Chong
E-MAIL: jollywell@hotmail.com
: jchong@pecaz.com
: tazjc500@yahoo.com
Project Engineering Consultant,
2310 W Mission Lane
Phoenix, AZ 85021
Tel: (602)906-1901
>From: johnrabenius@hotmail.com
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] ANYBODY NEED ANY WELDING DONE?
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:22:09 -0000
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>
>I'm making front and rear bumpers and rock rails for Cherokees, along
>with lower control arm skid plates (weld on).
>
>If anyone needs any welding or fabrication done, I live in the East
>valley, near Rural and Chandler blvd.
>
>John Rabenius
>480-496-4124
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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45172 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:28am
Subject: [TR] Martinez Canyon - Saturday, March 9, 2002
Hello All,
Mike Baney is leading a Martinez Canyon trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.
When: Not completly decided yet
Where: Meet at Texaco in FJ
Rating: 4.0+
Length: Several hours
CB Channel: 4
This is to help Chirs, the guy with the burnt Toy on the trail. We will need some help, muscle, tools, pickup truck to haul a short distance, winch, etc...
Martinez Canyon has to be one of the most beautiful canyons south of the Sedona AZ red bluffs. To reach the trailhead you travel over rolling hills of desert cactus, shrubs and trees. All of a sudden you enter a narrow passageway into a canyon of deep red bluffs and cottonwood trees.
Most of the year there is a spring that winds through the trees and low area. You will find the old homestead at the grouping of cottonwood trees along with some old mining generators and storerooms. Just past the homestead you will drop into the wash and follow it to the old mill.
The road winds back and forth across the wash as well as follows the wash for a time but the trail stays in the wash. You can spend hours "playing" on the rocks and waterfalls.
A mile or so into the wash you will approach a large landslide blocking the wash so the trail starts up the switchback trail "to the top of the world". The view from the top of the mountain is breathtaking.
As you start back down the switchback trail you will find it has been washed out, big time! The washout cuts through several of the "switchbacks" in a cut approximately 8 feet deep and 8 foot wide, so down you go. After a drop into the washout you will crank a hard left turn and literally freeslide on the loose gravel/dirt about 200 yards.
The first comment made from one of the original founders is the best description to the end of a great day of wheeling. "This is better than an 'E' Ticket ride at Disneyland! It's wheel'n the luge!"
This trail is definitely for the "extreme" vehicle as well as an experienced driver. Lockers are required and 33" tires and maximum clearance are a must.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
NOTE: 2/17/02 - I (Stu Olson) ran the trail yesterday and I believe it is safe to say that there is not much of a chance to "run the luge" anymore. I could be mistaken, but few (any?) would survive the drop into the luge. It is extrememly erroded now and the old bypass is now the main path down, IMO.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
45173 From: David Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:27am
Subject: OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
45174 From: Greg Mobley <gregorym85268@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:41am
Subject: Garmin GPS3 track help
I have downloaded a track from my Garmin GPS 3 into Delorme Topo3 program and have been unable to display the track on my computer screen in Topo 3 map program. Can anyone help me ?
Thanks Greg
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45175 From: paparoach85251 <lespaparoach@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:53am
Subject: Re: OR-FAB sport bar
David,
I recently installed the front sport cage from OR-Fab and it works
with either a soft or hard top. Fairly easy install also.
Les
-- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
45176 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:57am
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
Did 'ja ask him what happened, how he got in that spot to begin with. Did he
go out there alone, originally, and/or try that run with a vehicle that's
not "built for it" ?? Just curious if there were any explainations on what
happened and how.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
> I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
> abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
> the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
> you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
> easy on him...he's trying.
>
> Thanks,
> aaron@m...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
45177 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:17pm
Subject: RE: OR-FAB sport bar
It would seem logical that if it fits under my hard top, it would most likely fit a soft top. I know of only one model (that I am aware of).
Timber Chucker!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45178 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:02pm
Subject: RE: OR-FAB sport bar
the soft top needs two wholes on each side of the sport bar for the door frame to bolt to. Just wanted to make sure it would work. I think John B just said it would. Thanks Stu.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:17 PM
To: David Withers; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
It would seem logical that if it fits under my hard top, it would most likely fit a soft top. I know of only one model (that I am aware of).
Timber Chucker!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45179 From: David Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:00pm
Subject: Darner link /info
I couldn't find it on the site. Does anyone have the account # for the discount, or tell me where on the site it is.
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
45180 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Burned Toyoya in Martinez Canyon
I can help out on Sunday but probably not on Saturday.
-Roger
45181 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:31pm
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45182 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:36pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45183 From: Robert McNeeley <robert.mcneeley@p...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:40pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45184 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:47pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Scott,
You're missing the point Scott. I pointed out how to get more strength for LESS money. I didn't suggest that ANYONE go out and spend as much as I did.
I suggested that they spend LESS than what the OR-Fab unit costs and I defined specific steps on how to do so. I hope you're not suggesting that because
I spent 2 grand on a complete replacement cage (ah yes... what is my life and my families life worth?) that my advise not to purchase the OR-Fab unit is not sound?
Where's the logic in that?
I'm trying to keep someone... anyone... everyone... from making the mistake you and others in this group have made; the OR-Fab unit is a waste of money... I'm not doing this to put you down, I'm doing this because it is a safety issue.
Kind Regards,
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
45185 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:47pm
Subject: Re: Darner link /info
Don't need an account #, just tell them about the discount.
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> I couldn't find it on the site. Does anyone have the account # for
the
> discount, or tell me where on the site it is.
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
45186 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:44pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Every time I bust my knuckles on some dumb *** "engineered" design I think how nice it would be if they only took 15 mechanical engineering classes instead of 30..;-0>..it is amazing anything gets built.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45187 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we are friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without ever backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup is not as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that point.
Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after NASCAR type protection.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@phoenix.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45188 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
What about lowering the windshield? welding the sport bar seem would prevent this. Although I do have access to a welder.
Taking tubular steel to the floor would make a 6'3" person have even more difficulties getting in and out?
Is John really that cheap?
I think I'll stay away from it though. I want safety not looks
Thanks Joe
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45164 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:04am
Subject: [FS] Looking for a vacuum booster for my 80 cj5
Price: ???
Contact: c_estle@hotmail.com
Chad Estle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
45165 From: driveshaft37 <aarondickinson@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:05am
Subject: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
easy on him...he's trying.
Thanks,
aaron@m...
45166 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:09am
Subject: Re: Project Frame?
Just curious why you want a CJ frame. A YJ frame is fully boxed
and is stronger than a CJ frame.
-Roger
Robert Holmes wrote:
>
> Im looking for a frame to start building a project trail Jeep on.
> Idealy I want a CJ-7 frame. Does anyone have one or know where to get one.
>
> ~Robert Holmes
45167 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:16am
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
If hes out there saturday Id almost guarentee about 6 other people from this
group would go help and bring stuff. I would and will but can only offer man
power and a not very well built wagoneer
>From: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
>Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:05:51 -0000
>
>I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
>abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
>the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
>you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
>easy on him...he's trying.
>
>Thanks,
>aaron@m...
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
~Robert Holmes
__________________________________________________ _______________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
45168 From: swaders7 <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 5:08pm
Subject: Re: (MS) Blue TJ with snorkel + mucho mods
Or was it Lapis blue?
I can say that cause mine's the same color!
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...> wrote:
> If it was smurf blue it was probably Chris K.
>
> He hee!!!:)
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "J & P Visic" <jpvisic@n...> wrote:
> > Saw your jeep in a parking lot of 1300 block on N. Alma School
Rd.
> in Chandler. Very Nice. Here's your wave.
> >
> > John Visic
45169 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:52am
Subject: RE: Test
You're right Joey... it's a business plug...
If anyone out there in AZVJC land wants to purchase Integrated Circuit
Design software which will allow you to do physical IC Design down to Deep
Sub micron feature sizes... please feel free to give me a call.
By the way, our software only runs about $5,000,000.00 to $8,500,000.00 per
seat (license) and I can probably get you a 35% discount for AZVJC
members...
If anyone is interested, please let me know.
By the way, our software only runs on REAL computers; UNIX Workstations.
PCs and Macs need not apply.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:49 PM
> To: joew@a...; Azvjc (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Test
>
>
> Yeah sure looks more like a business plug to me!!
> :)
> Joey K
> 93YJ
> www.desertjeep.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe West [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:04 AM
> To: Azvjc (E-mail)
> Subject: [az_vjc] Test
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************** ******************
> Joe West
> Avant! US Technical Support Engineer
> 2151 East Broadway Road, Suite 106
> Tempe, Arizona 85282
> Office: (480) 921-3732
> Cell: (602) 524-7632
> Fax: (480) 921-8883
>
> Links to Avant! Support:
> http://www.avanticorp.com/register -> register for TS
> http://www.avanticorp.com/faq -> frequently asked questions
> http://www.avanticorp.com/sol/search -> this month's FAQs
> http://www.avanticorp.com/case/new -> submit problem report
> http://www.avanticorp.com/case/search -> cases reported by me
>
> Southwest support aliases:
> Apollo: swae-apollo@a...
> Hercules: swae-herc@a...
> Simulation: swae-sim@a...
> Extraction: swae-starrc@a...
> Mars: swae-mars@a...
> ************************************************** ******************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
45170 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:09am
Subject: Pulling the Toy
I am going to contact the owner, who is up for helping this
Saturday? We will need a trailer, and a 4x4 to pull it. Would be
nice if a couple of winches are there too.
Mike Baney
45171 From: Joel Chong <jollywell@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:13am
Subject: Re: ANYBODY NEED ANY WELDING DONE?
Anybody has the contact number for John Rabenius in the East Valley?
Joel Chong
E-MAIL: jollywell@hotmail.com
: jchong@pecaz.com
: tazjc500@yahoo.com
Project Engineering Consultant,
2310 W Mission Lane
Phoenix, AZ 85021
Tel: (602)906-1901
>From: johnrabenius@hotmail.com
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] ANYBODY NEED ANY WELDING DONE?
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:22:09 -0000
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>I'm making front and rear bumpers and rock rails for Cherokees, along
>with lower control arm skid plates (weld on).
>
>If anyone needs any welding or fabrication done, I live in the East
>valley, near Rural and Chandler blvd.
>
>John Rabenius
>480-496-4124
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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45172 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:28am
Subject: [TR] Martinez Canyon - Saturday, March 9, 2002
Hello All,
Mike Baney is leading a Martinez Canyon trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.
When: Not completly decided yet
Where: Meet at Texaco in FJ
Rating: 4.0+
Length: Several hours
CB Channel: 4
This is to help Chirs, the guy with the burnt Toy on the trail. We will need some help, muscle, tools, pickup truck to haul a short distance, winch, etc...
Martinez Canyon has to be one of the most beautiful canyons south of the Sedona AZ red bluffs. To reach the trailhead you travel over rolling hills of desert cactus, shrubs and trees. All of a sudden you enter a narrow passageway into a canyon of deep red bluffs and cottonwood trees.
Most of the year there is a spring that winds through the trees and low area. You will find the old homestead at the grouping of cottonwood trees along with some old mining generators and storerooms. Just past the homestead you will drop into the wash and follow it to the old mill.
The road winds back and forth across the wash as well as follows the wash for a time but the trail stays in the wash. You can spend hours "playing" on the rocks and waterfalls.
A mile or so into the wash you will approach a large landslide blocking the wash so the trail starts up the switchback trail "to the top of the world". The view from the top of the mountain is breathtaking.
As you start back down the switchback trail you will find it has been washed out, big time! The washout cuts through several of the "switchbacks" in a cut approximately 8 feet deep and 8 foot wide, so down you go. After a drop into the washout you will crank a hard left turn and literally freeslide on the loose gravel/dirt about 200 yards.
The first comment made from one of the original founders is the best description to the end of a great day of wheeling. "This is better than an 'E' Ticket ride at Disneyland! It's wheel'n the luge!"
This trail is definitely for the "extreme" vehicle as well as an experienced driver. Lockers are required and 33" tires and maximum clearance are a must.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
NOTE: 2/17/02 - I (Stu Olson) ran the trail yesterday and I believe it is safe to say that there is not much of a chance to "run the luge" anymore. I could be mistaken, but few (any?) would survive the drop into the luge. It is extrememly erroded now and the old bypass is now the main path down, IMO.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
45173 From: David Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:27am
Subject: OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
45174 From: Greg Mobley <gregorym85268@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:41am
Subject: Garmin GPS3 track help
I have downloaded a track from my Garmin GPS 3 into Delorme Topo3 program and have been unable to display the track on my computer screen in Topo 3 map program. Can anyone help me ?
Thanks Greg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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45175 From: paparoach85251 <lespaparoach@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:53am
Subject: Re: OR-FAB sport bar
David,
I recently installed the front sport cage from OR-Fab and it works
with either a soft or hard top. Fairly easy install also.
Les
-- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> Stu and others,
>
> So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
>
> John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
45176 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:57am
Subject: Re: update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
Did 'ja ask him what happened, how he got in that spot to begin with. Did he
go out there alone, originally, and/or try that run with a vehicle that's
not "built for it" ?? Just curious if there were any explainations on what
happened and how.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "driveshaft37" <aarondickinson@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] update on burned Toy in Martinez Canyon(READ THIS)
> I have the phone number of the owner. It wasn't stolen and he didn't
> abandon it there. He's been trying to get it out, but doesn't have
> the resources to do so by himself. If anyone would like to help out,
> you can email me directly and I will give you his number. Just go
> easy on him...he's trying.
>
> Thanks,
> aaron@m...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
45177 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:17pm
Subject: RE: OR-FAB sport bar
It would seem logical that if it fits under my hard top, it would most likely fit a soft top. I know of only one model (that I am aware of).
Timber Chucker!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45178 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:02pm
Subject: RE: OR-FAB sport bar
the soft top needs two wholes on each side of the sport bar for the door frame to bolt to. Just wanted to make sure it would work. I think John B just said it would. Thanks Stu.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:17 PM
To: David Withers; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
It would seem logical that if it fits under my hard top, it would most likely fit a soft top. I know of only one model (that I am aware of).
Timber Chucker!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45179 From: David Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:00pm
Subject: Darner link /info
I couldn't find it on the site. Does anyone have the account # for the discount, or tell me where on the site it is.
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
45180 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Burned Toyoya in Martinez Canyon
I can help out on Sunday but probably not on Saturday.
-Roger
45181 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:31pm
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45182 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:36pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45183 From: Robert McNeeley <robert.mcneeley@p...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:40pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45184 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:47pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Scott,
You're missing the point Scott. I pointed out how to get more strength for LESS money. I didn't suggest that ANYONE go out and spend as much as I did.
I suggested that they spend LESS than what the OR-Fab unit costs and I defined specific steps on how to do so. I hope you're not suggesting that because
I spent 2 grand on a complete replacement cage (ah yes... what is my life and my families life worth?) that my advise not to purchase the OR-Fab unit is not sound?
Where's the logic in that?
I'm trying to keep someone... anyone... everyone... from making the mistake you and others in this group have made; the OR-Fab unit is a waste of money... I'm not doing this to put you down, I'm doing this because it is a safety issue.
Kind Regards,
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
45185 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:47pm
Subject: Re: Darner link /info
Don't need an account #, just tell them about the discount.
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> I couldn't find it on the site. Does anyone have the account # for
the
> discount, or tell me where on the site it is.
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
45186 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:44pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Every time I bust my knuckles on some dumb *** "engineered" design I think how nice it would be if they only took 15 mechanical engineering classes instead of 30..;-0>..it is amazing anything gets built.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45187 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
Actually I don't have anything against Joe. As a matter of fact we are friends, though we frequently tend to disagree ;)
He's made this argument about the ORF setup countless times without ever backing it up with any photos. I have no doubt that the ORF setup is not as strong as his or Sharky's cages. I'm not going to argue that point.
Anyway, for that vast majority of us the ORF cage works well and provides better than stock protection. Not all of us are after NASCAR type protection.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@phoenix.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Dang.... Joe I hope you have tuff skin.... I think you might have pissed off a few people... Oh well that's how life goes. It would be kinda boring if we all got along :)
Robert (not an engineer) McNeeley
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:37 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Hmm,
I'm going to run out and tear my "crappy" ORF setup out immediately since it's only marginally safe.
I think we should all listen to the advice of Joe who spent over $2000 on his cage. Whatever Joe....
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
45188 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: RE: Don't waste your money: was RE: OR-FAB sport bar
What about lowering the windshield? welding the sport bar seem would prevent this. Although I do have access to a welder.
Taking tubular steel to the floor would make a 6'3" person have even more difficulties getting in and out?
Is John really that cheap?
I think I'll stay away from it though. I want safety not looks
Thanks Joe
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM
To: 'David Withers'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Don't waste your money: was RE: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
David,
It would be almost a complete waste of money for you to:
1. Purchase the OR-Fab unit.
2. Have anyone make a similar one for you.
Given the expense of the OR-Fab "sport" (ah... what an excellent term for this chunk of metal) bar, you'd be better off taking the money and:
1. Having your factory roll bar reinforced using triangulation support beams and cross braces.
2. Have someone make you a "real" roll bar.
The design of the OR-Fab unit offers marginal additional support over the factory roll cage. The key word here is "marginal". You can get MUCH more bang for your buck by having someone truss up what you have. What the OR-Fab "sport" (there's that term again) bar does, is add two additional contact points to your factory "sport" bar and tie them into the firewall. Oh... and if you want to throw a bit more cash at them, they will tie these contact points into the floor for you.
The problem with their design is that under lateral impacts (such as those you might see under a severe roll), their "sport" bar will crumple... I've seen pictures of their product failed and it wasn't pretty. This product is for looks... not for functionality. While it offers marginal additional protection for occupants of your rig, it does so at a fairly high cost.
Ah... but alas, the "sport" bar sure does look pretty... and if pretty is why you are purchasing one; go right ahead.
The absolute best thing you can do which will save you money AND work MUCH better from a protection standpoint it take your rig down to Hunter Offroad (or your favorite fab shop) and have them do the following:
1. Weld up all bolted seams in the factory sport bar.
2. Weld additional bracing to triangulate the factory bar.
3. Add additional drops at the front windshield down to the floor.
4. Add a header cross-brace at the front windshield.
5. Tie roll bar to vehicle interfaces to frame at the front windshield drop tubes.
You could do most, if not all of the above for less money than the OR-Fab unit, and you'd have more strength than the OR unit after step 2.
Please don't make the mistake that others have made on this list... don't purchase a product JUST because a bunch of people on the list have the product... in the case of the OR-Fab sport bar; you'd be throwing your money away.
And for those of you "sport" bar owners of the OR-Fab unit... yes... I have made mistakes and purchased JUNK myself... and I've posted it to the group so other's didn't waste their money. If, you insist on posting in defense of this product, please do so from a mathematical/structural/scientific standpoint and I will respond in kind.
Otherwise, I'd just as soon you let my sage advise stand unopposed.
There are quite a few mechanical engineers on this list, some may have looked at the OR-Fab design... if you have; pipe up! I'm just a lowly electrical engineer with only about 30 mechanical engineering college credits...
Kind Regards, and this post is meant to save you a mistake,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: David Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OR-FAB sport bar
Stu and others,
So they make a sport bar that will work with a soft top?
John (hunter off-road) can you build the same product?
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.