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226 From: RDMcF@a...
Date: Sat Dec 5, 1998 0:05pm
Subject: Tomorrow's Run
Gonna have to bail at the last minute. Got some mechanical problems to deal
with. Sorry about that. I hope to see you all next Saturday. Have fun
tomorrow.
Dan McFarlane
97TJ
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227 From: George Andrews <gandre01@e...>
Date: Sat Dec 5, 1998 5:15pm
Subject: Dec plans
Ouch....my water pump has just given up the battle....thus I will not be
able to enjoy the ride tomorrow. My big block requires a high volume water
which must be special ordered...so most likely won't be able to make next
week either.
Hope y'all have a good ride.
George Andrews
'82 Cherokee WT, 454TBI, TH400, QT, D44s, 35x12.50s
Avondale, Arizona
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228 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Sat Dec 5, 1998 5:33pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: Dec. Run]
If your TJ has the factory TracLoc, you shouldn't have much trouble. If it's open, then you are definitlely making the right decision! Hope to to you next time!
Linda
> I'm driving a stock TJ with 30" tires. I don't plan on trying the class 4
> hill. Are there others in the group who are also planning on bypassing? If
> not, I'll probably have to pass on this trip.
>
> Dan McFarlane
> 97TJ
>
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> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 06:32:39 -0700
> From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
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> Nick: Here are the directions, and anwser to your question. You may want
> to check out the list-serv, which contains archived messages.
>
> As to the By-Pass, it goes a long way around, up a side canyon. I've
> never taken it, but a buddy of mine did, and got to the top just fine in
> a fairly stock CJ (he couldn't make the rocky slough). He did indicate
> that the by pass was not a cake walk though...probably class 3.
>
> Doug
>
>
> Doug B wrote:
> >
>
> > Apache Leap Trailhead is about 45 min. or so from
> > Apache Junction...so you could figure it from there. As to start time, I
> > suggest 10a from Oak Flats Camp Ground. Directions:
> >
> > Take US60 east to Superior. There are several gas stations here, for
> > topping up.
> >
> > Continue east on US60, up a long grade. Once on top, look for a sign on
> > the right for Oak Flats Campground. We'll assemble at the campground.
> > The trail start is a short way further up the road, but the camp
> > ground's a good spot to air down and disconnect.
> >
> > It's not a particularly long trail, so we should be back by late
> > afternoon. It's generally a class 2-3, with a class 4 hill that can be
> > gotten around. Some great views of Devil's Canyon and other points of
> > interest.
> >
> > See ya there.
> >
> > Doug
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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229 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 8:00pm
Subject: Apache Leap/Power Line Trail Report
Wow...absolutely fantastic....spectacular....stupendous....and pretty
good, too.
But first things first. We gathered at Oak Flats at about 10a and were
off by 10:20. Those attending were Linda and friend(ZJ w/ 4.5" RE Lift);
Nick(YJ, w/ shackle lift); Melinda(TJ); and Jim (Yucca) and family(XJ);
and myself (TJ w/ 3" TeraFlex lift).
The trail start itself is several miles up Magma Mine road, through a
gate on the left hand side. Trail conditions at the start were fine,
some mud and puddles, but not bad. We knew it was cold when we came
across a frozen puddle on the trail. The early parts of the trail were
relatively easy, and the terrain was rocky, filled w/ scrub oaks, and
misc desert vegitation. Very scenic.
We started hitting some more challenging hills as we went along, and we
eventually came to a large basin, w/ a tank, and windmill. This forms
the hub of several loop trails that criss cross here...apparently
forming a large figure 8, with the basin being he crossing point.
At the windmill, we proceeded up a large rocky incline, and eventually
dropped into another valley/basin where the class 4 hill is located.
Deuty refers to this as the rocky slough. It has a fairly intimidating
ledge at the beginning. At this point, Melinda, Nick, and Jim and family
took a bypass off to the right, that paralleled the main trail, but up a
side canyon. Linda and I made an attempt at the hill.
Before we split up, the snow started falling...just lightly...at first.
Well, I tried the hill first, and found that the ground was wet enough
to be quite slippery. I made about 4 or 5 attempts to get over the
ledge, but kept losing traction. I finally took a slightly different
line, and made it. Linda was next and had some problems at he same
place I had gotten stuck. A quick help w/ a winch got her going, and we
were off to the top of the hill.
Once over the top, we regrouped with the others and proceeded. At this
point, the snow started falling more heavily, and the flakes were
getting bigger.
We worked our way through a small wash and reached a fork in the trail.
The right fork (the one we took) forms part of a figure 8 that leads
back to the basin with the windmill. The straight ahead fork goes up a
fairly steep hill, and will eventually lead to SR 177, south of
Superior.
This is where things got really spectacular. The snow really started
coming down and was staring to stick. The trail was fairly rugged and we
scrapped bottom a bit, here and there. We reached a fairly flat spot
that was surrounded on 3 sides by Hoodoos (verticle rock outcropings).
One that was particularly spectacular was framed by an opaque white
backdrop, with snow really coming down. The snow was collecting fast on
the leaves of the trees and the cactus, and building up on the ground,
making the trail a bit slick. We were at about 4,800 feet.
From this point, the trail was slow going...rocky, I'd rate it a 3+ (and
he snow wasn't helping any), and generally headed down. At points, it
was hard to see where the trail went, because everything was covered in
an inch or so of snow.
After some rock scrapping and bouncing, we came down into a large basin
covered with almost 2 inches of the white stuff. We stopped for a group
photo shoot, and played in the snow. 15 minutes later, we were getting
ready to start back up, trying to find the trail, when we realized we
were back at the central basin. Things REALLY look quite different
blanketed with snow.
The way out was getting increasingly slick, and on one long hill we had
to tow Melinda up a steep and slippery slope. At this point, Melinda
decided it was time for shop for tires - the Goodyear Wranglers just
weren't working out.
We all made it out fine, and headed back to Superior for some hot coffee
and food.
A REALLY spectacular trip. Linda and Nick took pictures, which they'll
be posting soon. Can't wait to see them. My only regret on this trip was
not bringing a camera. Snow in a mountainous desert setting is something
to behold.
Doug
98TJ
AzVJC
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230 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 8:41pm
Subject: Message for Nick/Apache Leap Trail
Nick:
I don't have your e-mail address, so I'm posting this to AzVJC. Could
you shoot me a note when you get a chance? I'd like to buy copies of the
photos you took on the trail. Could you print a set? I'd be HAPPY to pay
what ever the cost is. Thanks!
A really regret not having brought a camera.
Doug
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231 From: Revolvr@a...
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Apache Leap/Power Line Trail Report
Sounds really great Doug! Wish I could have been out there with you guys.
I actually did see two snowflakes in Ahwatokee. They melted pretty quick.
-- Dan
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232 From: kermit <kermit@f...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 9:26pm
Subject: Re: Apache Leap/Power Line Trail Report
Sounds like one heck of a trip! Sorry I couldn't make it, but today was
Nathan's 5th birthday. We were at Chuck E Cheese when the snow started to
fall in Phoenix. Everyone rushed outside to make sure it really was
happening. Should be really interesting to see how native Phoenicians deal
with icy streets tomorrow morning! I think I may go in late..............
Len
1978 J-10
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233 From: EricKool@a...
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 5:04pm
Subject: Re: Photos - Apache Leap Trail
In a message dated 12/6/98 9:45:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
daballard@p... writes:
> Nick:
>
> I don't have your e-mail address, so I'm posting this to AzVJC. Could
> you shoot me a note when you get a chance? I'd like to buy copies of the
> photos you took on the trail. Could you print a set? I'd be HAPPY to pay
> what ever the cost is. Thanks!
>
> A really regret not having brought a camera.
>
> Doug
Sounds like you all had a hell of a trip. If anyone has photos, please bring
them on this Saturday's trip to the Box Canyon. I'd like to see them too.
Eric
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234 From: RDMcF@a...
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 7:31am
Subject: Repair Question
OK, here's a challenge to those more mechanically inclined than I. I'm having
performance problems with my 97TJ 4.0L, and don't have a repair manual to help
troubleshoot. Even though I have 60,000+ miles on it, it's still considered
"brand new," and nobody carries manuals. The shop manual I ordered from the
dealer months ago has mysteriously disappeared, and the replacement won't be
in for another couple of weeks. Anyway, I noticed this problem on the Table
Mesa trail a few weeks ago, and it's getting noticeably worse. The engine
runs fine at high rpm, and also runs fine at idle. The problem comes when
dropping from high rpm to idle. The engine normally idles at about 700-800
rpm. But when I let off the gas from high rpm (say 2,000), it dips well below
700 rpm, and occasionally stalls. I stalled a few times on the Table Mesa
run. It got so bad the night before Apache Leap that I decided to drop out of
that trip. I'm no mechanic, and with no repair manual I'm basically grasping
at straws here. So far, I've replaced the Mopar air filter with a K&N,
replaced spark plugs and spark plug wires, and checked for vacuum leaks. I've
never replaced any components in the emission control system, but as far as I
can tell, there aren't any components that need periodic replacement. I've
checked through various auto parts stores, and no one lists any replacement
components (e.g., egr valves, pcv valves, etc.). It doesn't even look like
the fuel filter needs to be replaced. I'm getting ready to run another bottle
of fuel system cleaner through it, but I usually run quality gasoline in the
first place (i.e., Chevron & Mobile). I normally burn unleaded, but go with
the higher octane if I'm going off-road.
That's about all the hints I can think of. Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated. I really want to have this thing running well for the run on
Saturday if at all possible. From the sound of the Apache Leap run, I missed
a great time and I don't want to miss out on another one. Thanks to all.
Dan McFarlane
97TJ
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235 From: Atc1man@a...
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 7:47am
Subject: Re: Repair Question
You might have someone look at the injectors. Just because You run high
quality fuel and cleaners, the high mileage may have built up residue on the
injectors. Also, check the manual for an older 4.0 (maybe a YJ manual or
cherokee manual). The engines are pretty much the same, and the trouble
shooting may be the same. That may give you a better start. You are at about
the mileage that you need to change the O2 sensor soon, but that won't affect
this problem. Once the O2 sensor starts to go, you will get a "check engine"
warning with no noted performance loss, smells, etc. Its a really simple
swap, but the computer trouble code will need to be reset. I learned that the
hard way on my cherokee. Good luck
I hit "reply to all" to send this response to everyone. If anyone has any XJ
repair and building tips, or wants to share XJ notes, drop me a line at
atc1man@a... I am new to the az jeep mail list, and while i dont live in
AZ now, Im probably moving back there in March or so.
Thanks,
Jason
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236 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 1:14pm
Subject: new to group
Greetings from Tucson!
I found this group through Rockcrawler.com.
I have a few questions about the group.
Do you have to be from the Phoenix area?
Seems as though most of the runs are in the
Phoenix area, would you like to do some Southern
Arizona runs? Let's talk!
Leah 94 YJ
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237 From: Lawrence K. Foster <idc06@m...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Repair Question
Try checking for fault codes in the engine brain. There may be something
that's not triggering the Check Engine light. Turn the ignition switch
on-off-on-off-on and leave it there, don't start the engine. The Check
Engine light will flash a series of two digit codes with the last one being
5-5 if I recall correctly. They'll keep repeating in case you're like me
and can't count.
Once you get the codes try this site for what they mean.
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~kefford/index.html
Good luck.
Larry Foster
-----Original Message-----
From: RDMcF@a... <RDMcF@a...>
To: az_vjc@m... <az_vjc@m...>
Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 4:34 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Repair Question
>OK, here's a challenge to those more mechanically inclined than I. I'm
having
>performance problems with my 97TJ 4.0L, and don't have a repair manual to
help
>troubleshoot. Even though I have 60,000+ miles on it, it's still
considered
>"brand new," and nobody carries manuals. The shop manual I ordered from
the
>dealer months ago has mysteriously disappeared, and the replacement won't
be
>in for another couple of weeks. Anyway, I noticed this problem on the
Table
>Mesa trail a few weeks ago, and it's getting noticeably worse. The engine
>runs fine at high rpm, and also runs fine at idle. The problem comes when
>dropping from high rpm to idle. The engine normally idles at about 700-800
>rpm. But when I let off the gas from high rpm (say 2,000), it dips well
below
>700 rpm, and occasionally stalls. I stalled a few times on the Table Mesa
>run. It got so bad the night before Apache Leap that I decided to drop out
of
>that trip. I'm no mechanic, and with no repair manual I'm basically
grasping
>at straws here. So far, I've replaced the Mopar air filter with a K&N,
>replaced spark plugs and spark plug wires, and checked for vacuum leaks.
I've
>never replaced any components in the emission control system, but as far as
I
>can tell, there aren't any components that need periodic replacement. I've
>checked through various auto parts stores, and no one lists any replacement
>components (e.g., egr valves, pcv valves, etc.). It doesn't even look like
>the fuel filter needs to be replaced. I'm getting ready to run another
bottle
>of fuel system cleaner through it, but I usually run quality gasoline in
the
>first place (i.e., Chevron & Mobile). I normally burn unleaded, but go
with
>the higher octane if I'm going off-road.
>
>That's about all the hints I can think of. Any suggestions would be
greatly
>appreciated. I really want to have this thing running well for the run on
>Saturday if at all possible. From the sound of the Apache Leap run, I
missed
>a great time and I don't want to miss out on another one. Thanks to all.
>
>Dan McFarlane
>97TJ
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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238 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 4:21pm
Subject: Re: new to group
Leah Eliscu wrote:
>
> Greetings from Tucson!
>
> I found this group through Rockcrawler.com.
> I have a few questions about the group.
> Do you have to be from the Phoenix area?
> Seems as though most of the runs are in the
> Phoenix area, would you like to do some Southern
> Arizona runs? Let's talk!
>
> Leah 94 YJ
>
Welcome to AzVJC. All you need to join is a Jeep, and live in Az...or at
least wheel in Az. As I recall, there is at least one other member from
Tuscon. Most members are from the Phoenix area, but we have members from
Jerome, Sedona, and perhaps elsewhere.
As to trips in southern Az, that sounds great to me. I've done some
wheeling and camping in the Santa Rita's north of Nogales (around
Patagonia). Probably would need to plan it more in advance, and I might
want to combine it w/ an overnight.
If your intereted, this coming Saturday, we're doing a run into Box
Canyon and Martinez Canyon (northeast of Florence). If you live on the
north side of Tuscon, it's really not that far...up the Tom Mix Highway
(SR79), straight to Florence.
Doug
98TJ
AzVJC
If your interested, let us know and we'll shoot you directions.
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239 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 4:38pm
Subject: Re: Repair Question
RDMcF@a... wrote:
>
> OK, here's a challenge to those more mechanically inclined than I.
Dan,
Sounds like you've gotten some good suggestions to check out. I'd start
w/ cleaning the injectors, and also would swap out your fuel filter.
Sounds like a fuel flow problem. I've never used cleaner additives, but
you might give 'em a try. Checking for codes was a good idea posted
earlier.
As to the manual, I got mine from Earnhardts...they had 'em in stock.
You might want to call around. I'll crack mine open and see if there are
any troubleshooting suggestions, and will let you know.
Doug
98TJ
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240 From: kermit <kermit@f...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 8:00pm
Subject: Re: New to list
Welcome Troy! You're the 3rd FSJ owner in the club. I haven't had the
pleasure of 'wheeling with George yet (his FSJ is wounded), but we'll
definately have to all get together.
Len
1978 J-10
-----Original Message-----
From: Troy & Shannon Franks <tsfranks@r...>
To: kermit <kermit@f...>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 2:44 AM
Subject: New to list
>Hello list... Let me intro Myself... Len and George already know of me,
>(FSJ) I keep seeing info from Len on the "other jeep list" I am on. I am
>moving into the area in March and have 2 Jeeps. (mine and the wife's) My
>Jeep is a 69 Wagoneer lifted 4 inches, and always working on it. The wife's
>Jeep is an 88 XJ cherokee lifted 4 inches too, both Jeeps have 31's on
them,
>
>I am looking forward to going on a few trails as soon as I get down to
>Pheonix, and hanging out with real 4WD's. Buy the way all, love the web
>site, and hope to be included on a few trail reports.
>
>Troy Franks
>In Utah for now
>69 Wagoneer (Papa Tonka)
>88 XJ Cherokee (Tonka)
>
>
>>Sounds like one heck of a trip! Sorry I couldn't make it, but today was
>>Nathan's 5th birthday. We were at Chuck E Cheese when the snow started to
>>fall in Phoenix. Everyone rushed outside to make sure it really was
>>happening. Should be really interesting to see how native Phoenicians
deal
>>with icy streets tomorrow morning! I think I may go in late..............
>>
>>
>>Len
>>1978 J-10
>
>
>
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Subject: Yahoo! Autos az_vjc Messages 226-240 of 86361
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226 From: RDMcF@a...
Date: Sat Dec 5, 1998 0:05pm
Subject: Tomorrow's Run
Gonna have to bail at the last minute. Got some mechanical problems to deal
with. Sorry about that. I hope to see you all next Saturday. Have fun
tomorrow.
Dan McFarlane
97TJ
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227 From: George Andrews <gandre01@e...>
Date: Sat Dec 5, 1998 5:15pm
Subject: Dec plans
Ouch....my water pump has just given up the battle....thus I will not be
able to enjoy the ride tomorrow. My big block requires a high volume water
which must be special ordered...so most likely won't be able to make next
week either.
Hope y'all have a good ride.
George Andrews
'82 Cherokee WT, 454TBI, TH400, QT, D44s, 35x12.50s
Avondale, Arizona
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228 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Sat Dec 5, 1998 5:33pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: Dec. Run]
If your TJ has the factory TracLoc, you shouldn't have much trouble. If it's open, then you are definitlely making the right decision! Hope to to you next time!
Linda
> I'm driving a stock TJ with 30" tires. I don't plan on trying the class 4
> hill. Are there others in the group who are also planning on bypassing? If
> not, I'll probably have to pass on this trip.
>
> Dan McFarlane
> 97TJ
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com
>
>
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> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 06:32:39 -0700
> From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
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> Nick: Here are the directions, and anwser to your question. You may want
> to check out the list-serv, which contains archived messages.
>
> As to the By-Pass, it goes a long way around, up a side canyon. I've
> never taken it, but a buddy of mine did, and got to the top just fine in
> a fairly stock CJ (he couldn't make the rocky slough). He did indicate
> that the by pass was not a cake walk though...probably class 3.
>
> Doug
>
>
> Doug B wrote:
> >
>
> > Apache Leap Trailhead is about 45 min. or so from
> > Apache Junction...so you could figure it from there. As to start time, I
> > suggest 10a from Oak Flats Camp Ground. Directions:
> >
> > Take US60 east to Superior. There are several gas stations here, for
> > topping up.
> >
> > Continue east on US60, up a long grade. Once on top, look for a sign on
> > the right for Oak Flats Campground. We'll assemble at the campground.
> > The trail start is a short way further up the road, but the camp
> > ground's a good spot to air down and disconnect.
> >
> > It's not a particularly long trail, so we should be back by late
> > afternoon. It's generally a class 2-3, with a class 4 hill that can be
> > gotten around. Some great views of Devil's Canyon and other points of
> > interest.
> >
> > See ya there.
> >
> > Doug
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> --part0_912776596_boundary--
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229 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 8:00pm
Subject: Apache Leap/Power Line Trail Report
Wow...absolutely fantastic....spectacular....stupendous....and pretty
good, too.
But first things first. We gathered at Oak Flats at about 10a and were
off by 10:20. Those attending were Linda and friend(ZJ w/ 4.5" RE Lift);
Nick(YJ, w/ shackle lift); Melinda(TJ); and Jim (Yucca) and family(XJ);
and myself (TJ w/ 3" TeraFlex lift).
The trail start itself is several miles up Magma Mine road, through a
gate on the left hand side. Trail conditions at the start were fine,
some mud and puddles, but not bad. We knew it was cold when we came
across a frozen puddle on the trail. The early parts of the trail were
relatively easy, and the terrain was rocky, filled w/ scrub oaks, and
misc desert vegitation. Very scenic.
We started hitting some more challenging hills as we went along, and we
eventually came to a large basin, w/ a tank, and windmill. This forms
the hub of several loop trails that criss cross here...apparently
forming a large figure 8, with the basin being he crossing point.
At the windmill, we proceeded up a large rocky incline, and eventually
dropped into another valley/basin where the class 4 hill is located.
Deuty refers to this as the rocky slough. It has a fairly intimidating
ledge at the beginning. At this point, Melinda, Nick, and Jim and family
took a bypass off to the right, that paralleled the main trail, but up a
side canyon. Linda and I made an attempt at the hill.
Before we split up, the snow started falling...just lightly...at first.
Well, I tried the hill first, and found that the ground was wet enough
to be quite slippery. I made about 4 or 5 attempts to get over the
ledge, but kept losing traction. I finally took a slightly different
line, and made it. Linda was next and had some problems at he same
place I had gotten stuck. A quick help w/ a winch got her going, and we
were off to the top of the hill.
Once over the top, we regrouped with the others and proceeded. At this
point, the snow started falling more heavily, and the flakes were
getting bigger.
We worked our way through a small wash and reached a fork in the trail.
The right fork (the one we took) forms part of a figure 8 that leads
back to the basin with the windmill. The straight ahead fork goes up a
fairly steep hill, and will eventually lead to SR 177, south of
Superior.
This is where things got really spectacular. The snow really started
coming down and was staring to stick. The trail was fairly rugged and we
scrapped bottom a bit, here and there. We reached a fairly flat spot
that was surrounded on 3 sides by Hoodoos (verticle rock outcropings).
One that was particularly spectacular was framed by an opaque white
backdrop, with snow really coming down. The snow was collecting fast on
the leaves of the trees and the cactus, and building up on the ground,
making the trail a bit slick. We were at about 4,800 feet.
From this point, the trail was slow going...rocky, I'd rate it a 3+ (and
he snow wasn't helping any), and generally headed down. At points, it
was hard to see where the trail went, because everything was covered in
an inch or so of snow.
After some rock scrapping and bouncing, we came down into a large basin
covered with almost 2 inches of the white stuff. We stopped for a group
photo shoot, and played in the snow. 15 minutes later, we were getting
ready to start back up, trying to find the trail, when we realized we
were back at the central basin. Things REALLY look quite different
blanketed with snow.
The way out was getting increasingly slick, and on one long hill we had
to tow Melinda up a steep and slippery slope. At this point, Melinda
decided it was time for shop for tires - the Goodyear Wranglers just
weren't working out.
We all made it out fine, and headed back to Superior for some hot coffee
and food.
A REALLY spectacular trip. Linda and Nick took pictures, which they'll
be posting soon. Can't wait to see them. My only regret on this trip was
not bringing a camera. Snow in a mountainous desert setting is something
to behold.
Doug
98TJ
AzVJC
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230 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 8:41pm
Subject: Message for Nick/Apache Leap Trail
Nick:
I don't have your e-mail address, so I'm posting this to AzVJC. Could
you shoot me a note when you get a chance? I'd like to buy copies of the
photos you took on the trail. Could you print a set? I'd be HAPPY to pay
what ever the cost is. Thanks!
A really regret not having brought a camera.
Doug
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231 From: Revolvr@a...
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Apache Leap/Power Line Trail Report
Sounds really great Doug! Wish I could have been out there with you guys.
I actually did see two snowflakes in Ahwatokee. They melted pretty quick.
-- Dan
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232 From: kermit <kermit@f...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 9:26pm
Subject: Re: Apache Leap/Power Line Trail Report
Sounds like one heck of a trip! Sorry I couldn't make it, but today was
Nathan's 5th birthday. We were at Chuck E Cheese when the snow started to
fall in Phoenix. Everyone rushed outside to make sure it really was
happening. Should be really interesting to see how native Phoenicians deal
with icy streets tomorrow morning! I think I may go in late..............
Len
1978 J-10
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233 From: EricKool@a...
Date: Sun Dec 6, 1998 5:04pm
Subject: Re: Photos - Apache Leap Trail
In a message dated 12/6/98 9:45:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
daballard@p... writes:
> Nick:
>
> I don't have your e-mail address, so I'm posting this to AzVJC. Could
> you shoot me a note when you get a chance? I'd like to buy copies of the
> photos you took on the trail. Could you print a set? I'd be HAPPY to pay
> what ever the cost is. Thanks!
>
> A really regret not having brought a camera.
>
> Doug
Sounds like you all had a hell of a trip. If anyone has photos, please bring
them on this Saturday's trip to the Box Canyon. I'd like to see them too.
Eric
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234 From: RDMcF@a...
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 7:31am
Subject: Repair Question
OK, here's a challenge to those more mechanically inclined than I. I'm having
performance problems with my 97TJ 4.0L, and don't have a repair manual to help
troubleshoot. Even though I have 60,000+ miles on it, it's still considered
"brand new," and nobody carries manuals. The shop manual I ordered from the
dealer months ago has mysteriously disappeared, and the replacement won't be
in for another couple of weeks. Anyway, I noticed this problem on the Table
Mesa trail a few weeks ago, and it's getting noticeably worse. The engine
runs fine at high rpm, and also runs fine at idle. The problem comes when
dropping from high rpm to idle. The engine normally idles at about 700-800
rpm. But when I let off the gas from high rpm (say 2,000), it dips well below
700 rpm, and occasionally stalls. I stalled a few times on the Table Mesa
run. It got so bad the night before Apache Leap that I decided to drop out of
that trip. I'm no mechanic, and with no repair manual I'm basically grasping
at straws here. So far, I've replaced the Mopar air filter with a K&N,
replaced spark plugs and spark plug wires, and checked for vacuum leaks. I've
never replaced any components in the emission control system, but as far as I
can tell, there aren't any components that need periodic replacement. I've
checked through various auto parts stores, and no one lists any replacement
components (e.g., egr valves, pcv valves, etc.). It doesn't even look like
the fuel filter needs to be replaced. I'm getting ready to run another bottle
of fuel system cleaner through it, but I usually run quality gasoline in the
first place (i.e., Chevron & Mobile). I normally burn unleaded, but go with
the higher octane if I'm going off-road.
That's about all the hints I can think of. Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated. I really want to have this thing running well for the run on
Saturday if at all possible. From the sound of the Apache Leap run, I missed
a great time and I don't want to miss out on another one. Thanks to all.
Dan McFarlane
97TJ
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235 From: Atc1man@a...
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 7:47am
Subject: Re: Repair Question
You might have someone look at the injectors. Just because You run high
quality fuel and cleaners, the high mileage may have built up residue on the
injectors. Also, check the manual for an older 4.0 (maybe a YJ manual or
cherokee manual). The engines are pretty much the same, and the trouble
shooting may be the same. That may give you a better start. You are at about
the mileage that you need to change the O2 sensor soon, but that won't affect
this problem. Once the O2 sensor starts to go, you will get a "check engine"
warning with no noted performance loss, smells, etc. Its a really simple
swap, but the computer trouble code will need to be reset. I learned that the
hard way on my cherokee. Good luck
I hit "reply to all" to send this response to everyone. If anyone has any XJ
repair and building tips, or wants to share XJ notes, drop me a line at
atc1man@a... I am new to the az jeep mail list, and while i dont live in
AZ now, Im probably moving back there in March or so.
Thanks,
Jason
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236 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 1:14pm
Subject: new to group
Greetings from Tucson!
I found this group through Rockcrawler.com.
I have a few questions about the group.
Do you have to be from the Phoenix area?
Seems as though most of the runs are in the
Phoenix area, would you like to do some Southern
Arizona runs? Let's talk!
Leah 94 YJ
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237 From: Lawrence K. Foster <idc06@m...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Repair Question
Try checking for fault codes in the engine brain. There may be something
that's not triggering the Check Engine light. Turn the ignition switch
on-off-on-off-on and leave it there, don't start the engine. The Check
Engine light will flash a series of two digit codes with the last one being
5-5 if I recall correctly. They'll keep repeating in case you're like me
and can't count.
Once you get the codes try this site for what they mean.
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~kefford/index.html
Good luck.
Larry Foster
-----Original Message-----
From: RDMcF@a... <RDMcF@a...>
To: az_vjc@m... <az_vjc@m...>
Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 4:34 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Repair Question
>OK, here's a challenge to those more mechanically inclined than I. I'm
having
>performance problems with my 97TJ 4.0L, and don't have a repair manual to
help
>troubleshoot. Even though I have 60,000+ miles on it, it's still
considered
>"brand new," and nobody carries manuals. The shop manual I ordered from
the
>dealer months ago has mysteriously disappeared, and the replacement won't
be
>in for another couple of weeks. Anyway, I noticed this problem on the
Table
>Mesa trail a few weeks ago, and it's getting noticeably worse. The engine
>runs fine at high rpm, and also runs fine at idle. The problem comes when
>dropping from high rpm to idle. The engine normally idles at about 700-800
>rpm. But when I let off the gas from high rpm (say 2,000), it dips well
below
>700 rpm, and occasionally stalls. I stalled a few times on the Table Mesa
>run. It got so bad the night before Apache Leap that I decided to drop out
of
>that trip. I'm no mechanic, and with no repair manual I'm basically
grasping
>at straws here. So far, I've replaced the Mopar air filter with a K&N,
>replaced spark plugs and spark plug wires, and checked for vacuum leaks.
I've
>never replaced any components in the emission control system, but as far as
I
>can tell, there aren't any components that need periodic replacement. I've
>checked through various auto parts stores, and no one lists any replacement
>components (e.g., egr valves, pcv valves, etc.). It doesn't even look like
>the fuel filter needs to be replaced. I'm getting ready to run another
bottle
>of fuel system cleaner through it, but I usually run quality gasoline in
the
>first place (i.e., Chevron & Mobile). I normally burn unleaded, but go
with
>the higher octane if I'm going off-road.
>
>That's about all the hints I can think of. Any suggestions would be
greatly
>appreciated. I really want to have this thing running well for the run on
>Saturday if at all possible. From the sound of the Apache Leap run, I
missed
>a great time and I don't want to miss out on another one. Thanks to all.
>
>Dan McFarlane
>97TJ
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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>
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238 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 4:21pm
Subject: Re: new to group
Leah Eliscu wrote:
>
> Greetings from Tucson!
>
> I found this group through Rockcrawler.com.
> I have a few questions about the group.
> Do you have to be from the Phoenix area?
> Seems as though most of the runs are in the
> Phoenix area, would you like to do some Southern
> Arizona runs? Let's talk!
>
> Leah 94 YJ
>
Welcome to AzVJC. All you need to join is a Jeep, and live in Az...or at
least wheel in Az. As I recall, there is at least one other member from
Tuscon. Most members are from the Phoenix area, but we have members from
Jerome, Sedona, and perhaps elsewhere.
As to trips in southern Az, that sounds great to me. I've done some
wheeling and camping in the Santa Rita's north of Nogales (around
Patagonia). Probably would need to plan it more in advance, and I might
want to combine it w/ an overnight.
If your intereted, this coming Saturday, we're doing a run into Box
Canyon and Martinez Canyon (northeast of Florence). If you live on the
north side of Tuscon, it's really not that far...up the Tom Mix Highway
(SR79), straight to Florence.
Doug
98TJ
AzVJC
If your interested, let us know and we'll shoot you directions.
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239 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 4:38pm
Subject: Re: Repair Question
RDMcF@a... wrote:
>
> OK, here's a challenge to those more mechanically inclined than I.
Dan,
Sounds like you've gotten some good suggestions to check out. I'd start
w/ cleaning the injectors, and also would swap out your fuel filter.
Sounds like a fuel flow problem. I've never used cleaner additives, but
you might give 'em a try. Checking for codes was a good idea posted
earlier.
As to the manual, I got mine from Earnhardts...they had 'em in stock.
You might want to call around. I'll crack mine open and see if there are
any troubleshooting suggestions, and will let you know.
Doug
98TJ
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240 From: kermit <kermit@f...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 1998 8:00pm
Subject: Re: New to list
Welcome Troy! You're the 3rd FSJ owner in the club. I haven't had the
pleasure of 'wheeling with George yet (his FSJ is wounded), but we'll
definately have to all get together.
Len
1978 J-10
-----Original Message-----
From: Troy & Shannon Franks <tsfranks@r...>
To: kermit <kermit@f...>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 2:44 AM
Subject: New to list
>Hello list... Let me intro Myself... Len and George already know of me,
>(FSJ) I keep seeing info from Len on the "other jeep list" I am on. I am
>moving into the area in March and have 2 Jeeps. (mine and the wife's) My
>Jeep is a 69 Wagoneer lifted 4 inches, and always working on it. The wife's
>Jeep is an 88 XJ cherokee lifted 4 inches too, both Jeeps have 31's on
them,
>
>I am looking forward to going on a few trails as soon as I get down to
>Pheonix, and hanging out with real 4WD's. Buy the way all, love the web
>site, and hope to be included on a few trail reports.
>
>Troy Franks
>In Utah for now
>69 Wagoneer (Papa Tonka)
>88 XJ Cherokee (Tonka)
>
>
>>Sounds like one heck of a trip! Sorry I couldn't make it, but today was
>>Nathan's 5th birthday. We were at Chuck E Cheese when the snow started to
>>fall in Phoenix. Everyone rushed outside to make sure it really was
>>happening. Should be really interesting to see how native Phoenicians
deal
>>with icy streets tomorrow morning! I think I may go in late..............
>>
>>
>>Len
>>1978 J-10
>
>
>
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