blooddrive
01-04-2004, 02:12 PM
44637-44661
44637 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:05am
Subject: Re: Thank you and questions
You have several choices, and I am sure either one will work great.
Teraflex or Rubicon Express are the 2 you will hear about most. You
will get opinions on each, but either one is great. Get the trackbar
BEFORE you get it aligned. Joe is at 2602 W Townley, by Metrocenter
Mall, kinda. His number is 602-395-0840 or 623-937-3501.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., Darin Barbour <crin69@y...> wrote:
> Thanks to those who gave their input regarding a good
> rear bumper/tire carrier for my XJ. I have placed my
> order (Tomken) and should have it in a week.
> I would say I have one more bug to work out, but we
> know that would be less than truthful. However, I do
> have my next chore waiting on me.
> I have a 3" SkyJacker lift on my jeep. After the lift
> I tried to have the front end alignment done, but no
> one can get it right.
> Currently, the vehicle pulls to the right and is
> noticeably worse under braking. The vehicle is my
> daily driver and is sometimes used to transport the
> family, so I need it to stop straight just in case. I
> have seen the posts for Joe (FlexxyXJ) so that will be
> my next stop, but I have a few questions.
>
> One of the shops I went to said the problem was due to
> my track bar. We tried it with the relo bracket and
> it moved it too far, the stock location (of course) is
> also off center. His advice was to get an adjustable
> trackbar and then the alignment would be good.
>
> Does the adjustable trackbar and a good alignment
> diagnosis coincide with my symptoms?
>
> Who makes a good adj. Trackbar? Where is the best
> place to pick one up?
>
> (Sorry I should have kept the email) could someone
> provide me the contact info for Joe's shop?
>
> Thanks in advance to all.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
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44638 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:07am
Subject: Re: Can you give us directions to H2H?
Brian....I always wondered what you looked like....:o)
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Hill
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Can you give us directions to H2H?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44639 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:14am
Subject: Re: Can you give us directions to H2H?
Which one? The guy lookin' for rocks to stack for the MOGs or the H2H guys?
~B~
----- Original Message -----
From: DougB
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Brian Hill
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Can you give us directions to H2H?
Brian....I always wondered what you looked like....:o)
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Hill
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Can you give us directions to H2H?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44640 From: JIM CASSADAY <liv2jp@m...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:13am
Subject: Re: monday trail run post.
marc whitrock and my self are planning on doing a trail in the sycamore creek area
meeting at four peaks road turn off from highway 87 at 10:00am . We would like to do
a 3.5 trail or more if possible . rocker panel pass would be a good one to start with
to warm up.
monday march 4th
10:00 am four peaks turn off
bring a lunch and drink of choice.
channel 4
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:49 PM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [FS] 4x4 posi lock
Price: $150.00
Contact: ebnhils@earthlink.net
4x4 posi lock for dana 30, new in box
Eben Hobson
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44641 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:17am
Subject: RE: ATTN :: why CAN'T THE VJC--DAve W
Wow, touchy are we.
If you found a list that you already like, then use it, why change this
one. If it didn't work well would we have so many members!!!!!
Duh
Relax everything here is merely an opinion.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: kmichael02 [mailto:kmichael02@y...]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:49 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] ATTN :: why CAN'T THE VJC--DAve W
Hey Dave, Bite me!
I was asking a simple question. It's poorly thought remarks such as the
one you just posted that will begin to give people a negative impression
of members of this "UnOrganized" Club. Big Mouths like yourself, who
don't have the correct answer but feel the need to interject there
opinions all the time are truly a pain in the ***. I thought I
remembered a post a while back that you were leaving...Then Take off!!
What gives? Don't let the door hit ya in the *** on the way out!!
Why is it when someone asks a simple question, you always get some clown
who already monoplizes most of the post space, feeling the need to post?
Are you related to Al Gore?
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> Then goes use those and leave this alone.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kmichael02 [mailto:kmichael02@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:47 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] why CAN'T THE VJC
>
>
> Have a format like JU or Pirate 4x4...no offense but those formats
are
> cooler and easier to use????
>
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44642 From: Darren Richards <r50880@e...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:26am
Subject: Re: flat towing TJs with front lockers
Well, I'm only guessing it's the caster angle that is causing the jeep
tires to turn the wrong way in a tight turn (like maneuvering in a
parking lot). But that's the only place I ever have a problem. I've
probably flat-towed the jeep about 4000 miles with no problems so far.
In fact, I'm trying to wear down the Dunlop All-terrains so I can get
something with a more aggressive tread, but they just refuse to wear
out!
If I were to get the caster angle checked out, where would be the best
place to take the Jeep? Is that a job for Roosevelt Alignment?
darren
Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> I once talked to an RV owner who had a caster problem on the TJ he was
> flat towing. He managed to wear the front tires down until they were
> completely flat in about 100 miles.
>
> I imagine its pretty tough to see or feel that happening behind a big
> diesel pusher.
>
> I'd get the caster taken care of before you tow it again.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:36 AM
> To: Darren Richards; azcj; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] flat towing TJs with front lockers
>
> Well that's not good. If you don't fix the caster you should go to a
> trailer. Either the one that just carries the front tires or a full one.
> I have heard of people flat towing and tying down the steering so the
> wheels do not turn. What that does is fight the towing vehicle. Could
> end up wearing tires and putting stress on the hitch and tow bar. Just
> some observations. Joey K 93YJ www.desertjeep.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: darrenr@p... [mailto:darrenr@p...]On Behalf Of
> Darren Richards
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:37 AM
> To: azcj; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] flat towing TJs with front lockers
>
> I agree that if no torque is applied, an automatic locker should not
> lock around turns, and should not be noticable when flat-towing. I've
> got manual hubs on my Jeep, so it's not a problem either way. My
> problem is that I have longer shackles, which have messed up my caster
> angle. This causes my jeep tires to turn the *opposite* way in a tight
> turn when I'm flat towing. Not good...
>
> azcj wrote:
> >
> > A friend of mine wants to put lockers front and rear in his TJ. He
> > will be flat towing it behind his motorhome. He heard that some
> > lockers, Lockright specifically, tend to keep the wheels from going
> > back straight after a turn. Has anyone had this problem? He doesn't
> > want ARBs.
> >
> > Scott K, I know you have a non-ARB locker up front and flat tow, have
> > you noticed this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott E.
44643 From: ROBERT NYBERG <r.nyberg@w...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:19am
Subject: Organized Clubs
I have been reading along with the posts on organizing and I just wanted
to clarify a few things. First, just so you know, I am a member of an
organized club and a member of the ASA4WDC. I am also the Editor of both
and the Membership Chairman for ASA4WDC. There are NO plans to
discontinue the Individual memberships!
I have met some of you on the trail and at the Hunter party. I hope to
meet more of you in the future. I have been a member of AZVJC for a few
years and I think this is a great bunch of people.
Budget wise, the ASA has a very small budget with only one fund raising
event a year. The Jamboree in October. This is where most of the money
to fight land closures, pay for required insurance, publish the Wheel
Dust newsletter to inform all of what is happening in the off highway
world, pay for the land permits ETC. Individual memberships are
important. Every little bit helps keep the trails open. When you send in
the 25.00 for membership ( less than the cost of your smallest upgrade )
you become a member of UNITED also. 10.00 goes to united, 5.00 goes to
mail you your packet with stickers, patch, dash plaque, membership card,
Wheel Dust and more. That doesn't leave much for ASA but every little
bit helps. I know several of you are individual members and several more
are members through clubs. Having the Wheel Dust mailing list keeps me
up on this. Out of the 1000 to 1500 AZVJC members how many ASA members
do you think there are? Not very many. Please, if you don't want to
organize that's fine I can see both sides so will keep my opinions out
of it, join the ASA and help keep the trails open. Come to the Jamboree
in October and have some fun and meet new folks. I know many of you say
the registration fee is too high. It is only that much to pay for the
BLM permits, extra insurance required for non ASA members, and all the
other costs such as tents, J johns etc. This is 100% volunteer run by
many folks spending countless hours to make it happen. Many AZVJC
members also help with the event as trail leaders, Tech inspection and
other duties. Thank you. OK enough of that, I am passionate about this
but I don't want to be pushy.
The ASLD permits are another subject. ASA negotiated with ASLD to get
the group permits for club runs and functions. This was to save the
members a little money and keep things legal. I and most of the other
club members have our own permit on top of this as we need it for non
club trips, horse back riding etc. Here is an article from the last
wheel dust--
In recent years, the ASA4WDC has been increasingly using State Trust
Lands for the Annual Jamboree and other events. In addition, many of our
clubs and members have traditionally used the State Trust Lands, (often
without permits,) in years gone by. However, we have in place a
permitting system that covers our association and the affiliated clubs
for their events and four wheeling trips. Here is a summary of that
system and how it enables us to use State Trust Lands.
To start with, we must remember that the US Congress transferred a
large portion of Arizona lands from the federal ownership to the Arizona
State Land Trust, to be sold or employed for the maximum benefit of the
Trustees of the State of Arizona. This transfer was at the time of
statehood, in 1912. The primary beneficiary of the sale or lease of the
Trust Lands is the education fund of the State. Theoretically, in a
zillion years, all the land would be sold at auction to developers or
conservation organizations and the Arizona State Trust lands would be
gone. In the meantime, the lands are held in trust until they are deemed
eligible for auction in open sale. During this time, much of the land is
leased to ranchers or to mining operations and the proceeds go into the
Trust Funds, eventually to education.
The State Trust Lands are only available to the general public under a
permitting system or by licensed hunters or anglers actively hunting or
fishing (just carrying a gun or rod in the vehicle is not enough). The
individual permits are $15 annually, (one year from date of sale) or $20
for a family permit. These permits can be purchased at the State Land
Department offices around the state, Four Wheelers Supply in Phoenix,
from Sandee McCullen 480-832-8132 and at the Public Land Information
Center (PLIC) at Central and Van Buren in Phoenix. These General Use
permits entitle the permittee to camp (seven day limit), ride ATV’s or
otherwise use State Trust Lands under the general rules of the permit.
However, the Arizona State Land Department and the ASA4WDC have
developed a permitting system to serve our membership clubs and for
ASA4WDC events that are held on State Trust lands. For $50 annually, the
ASA4WDC is granted a permit for ASA functions. For an additional $50
annually per club (paid out of the Association’s general fund), all our
affiliated clubs and members are permittees. These permits are issued
under very specific conditions and rules. These are:
A. The permit is only valid for organized club-approved events or trips.
Pre-runs or scouting trips are also permitted, but the trip must be
sanctioned by the club.
B. All the members of the club should carry a copy of the permit with
them (just put it in the glove compartment of your vehicle). The number
of the permit is also on the membership card issued to all members by
the ASA4WDC each year.
C. The permit is only valid for club event/trip use. If you are carrying
passengers or goods for pay, you must have a commercial permit from the
State Land Department. Those permits are not available through the
ASA4WDC.
D. Guests of your club (or in your vehicle) are covered under the club
permit when on club sanctioned runs. Guests are limited to two trips;
they must join the club to continue to enjoy the benefits of the club
permit.
E. This is a special class of permit which has been negotiated with the
Arizona State Land Department. It’s intended use is for Four Wheeling
only, by Association clubs and their members. It is not for other
purposes and is not your personal general use permit. The permits are
subject to revocation if we violate the rules.
Some examples:
1. My family wants to camp out and quail hunt on State Trust Lands
(STL), for the weekend.
This is a permitted use under the Arizona State Game and Fish hunting
license.
2. We want to ride our ATV’s, picnic and do a little family four
wheelin’ on STL.
You will need a family permit, available for $20 at the above mentioned
places. Your ASA4WDC permit is not valid for this activity.
3. A couple guys from the club call a wildcat run for the next day and
invite me, but it isn’t a club run.
If you all have individual or family permits, it’s OK. Otherwise, you
would be trespassing on STL. The ASA4WDC permit is only for official
club runs.
Finally, people that use State Trust Lands without a permit are
trespassing and subject to prosecution.
Brad Jones
Land Use and Conservation
ASA4WDC
I hope this will clear up any misconceptions about the permits.
I am sorry if I took up too much space with this post but wanted to
clear up some things. If you want any information about ASA Please go to
the web site asa4wdc.org and if you don't find it there, email me and I
will do my best to get it for you. You may now beat on me as you desire.
Bob
44644 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:30am
Subject: Re: The good, Bad and the Ulgy.....
Clay:
I'm having trouble getting to the post site but I am a ASA4WDC individual member and didn't have a clue about the permit situation but will be acquiring one shortly.
Gary Holmes
The "Camo Cow"
Clay Forrester wrote:
Thanks....and I hope that is the case for ever member on the site. Butbecause a few emails I received, I don't think so. :-)Clay----- Original Message -----From: "Scott Kruize" To: "'scramzilla'" ; Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:02 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] The good, Bad and the Ulgy.....
Hmmm, I guess everybody must fit into the first group. I am anindividual member of the ASA4WDC and get a State Trust Land use permitevery year.I broke the rules and read your entire post ;)I agree with you 100%.Scott K-----Original Message-----From: scramzilla [mailto:allvol@cox.net]Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 2:41 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] The good, Bad and the Ulgy.....I've read most of the posts on the subject of Rock stacking, by-passbuilding and organized clubs ect....ect.... And I have kept and openmind about it. Most of the people in this group have done the same. Mylast message will address the people that I believe are the minorityfew.First let me give the primmer for this post. If you are a m
ember ofany organization that promotes public land use and helps keep it opento the general public.....Attend regular "clean up" events in yourarea.....Or attend or speak out at land issue meetings that try toprevent groups from closing more and more of our public land, the restof this message does NOT apply to you....I repeat, does NOT apply toyou.******************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *****Delete this message now if you fall into one or all of the categoriesthat I listed above.******************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *****After reading the VJC over the last few days I can see that the Yahooportion of the VJC is no more than a message board turned into a chatgroup. There is nothing wrong with that....just stating a fact. Thiswas even alluded to by several posting members. Now the other mainweb page is another story.....I'm talking about the dot Org. page. Itis set up like another club pages with Trips, members rides, events,yada yada yada. It is very interesting to me that the VJC tries veryhard not to become a club but is a club in spite of itself. It's likethe members of this group want to be a group but for one reason oranother, fail to go that extra step....(As I stated many times, Idon't care one way or the other)....just making a point.I have heard from many posters that trumpet the club membershipnumbers.....anywhere from a 1000 to 1400+. Now that is all well andgood but big numbers do NOT equate to a Jeeper behind every poster. Iwould be willing to bet that there are members that do not evenb
elieve in the recreational 4-wheelin' Yep! I bet there are a feweco-Nazis in this group watching and listing what is discussed....If Iwere one of their Ilk, that's what I'd do. Also, there are many peoplethat read this board solely for it's entertainment value.Entertainment in watching people smack around each other and watchingpeople post messages about 4-wheelin' that do not have a clue of whichthey speak.Now I would very much like to address the people that do NOT fall intoANY of the categories that I listed above. I'll call these people:Jeepers marooned on the Island of misfit toys. You know the Christmasstory. It's a place for toys that did not fit the "norm" as far astoys go. There was a "Charlie in the box".........and Water Pistolthat shot jelly.... Oh, and don't forget the Elephant with the pinkspots.......I think you get the picture. They are in a world of thereon. These wheelin' misfits don't give a flying
monkeys *** about clubdues, ASA or ANY organization that asks for money. Oh they havemoney. And have nooooooooo problem spending tons of it on their rig!They think that it's a by-gawd free country and they can do whateverthey want, whenever they want, and nobody by-gawd better try stop-um.Then you have the "I've been here longer that you" group of peoplethat will whip up a story about wheelin' a certain place for X-numberof years and that's just the way it's gonna be. It was free 30 yearsago so it's gonna be free now!......Most of the time they blameeverything on the younger generation.Which brings me to the younger generation. There are many youthsdriving Quads now that were not around years ago and these thingscause MAJOR damage to land a vegetation. A careless quad rider can domore damage in a week than a parking lot full of trail riding Jeeps cando in a year!Last but not least is probably most dange
rous group of wheelers outthere. It's the "no opinion whatsoever" group. They just go abouttherebusiness, not a care in the world until it effects them directly. Alarge % of Dune people are this way but last year they got their wakeup call. Yep! They were fat dumb and happy until the Eco-Nazis found aweed that is on the endangered species list growing in theDunes.......then BAM!!!!!!!.....Half the Dunes were closed in theblink of an eye.I'll summarize my point now by saying: EVERY MEMBER IN THIS GROUP CANCOME UP WITH $25.00 AND JOIN THE ASA! IF YOU ARE TO FREAKIN' CHEAP TOSPEND $25.00 A YEAR TO HELP KEEP THE LAND THAT YOU SAY IS YOURS......I CONSIDER YOU A PARASITE ON THE BACK OF EVERY WHEELER IN THISSTATE THAT LIVES UP TO THAT MINIMUM STANDARD. Now before you startsending me hate mail, make sure that you re-read the first sectionagain just in case you missed it.Clay Forrester
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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44645 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:28am
Subject: Statistics Report for azvjc.org.
Very interesting stuff, check out the bottom where it shows the hits by country.
- Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics Report for azvjc.org.
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Server Activity Totals for Period:
Total sessions served : 24916
Total hits made on server : 415544
Total page view hits : 327344
Total non page view hits : 88200
Total time spent by all sessions : 4652194 seconds
Total bandwidth : 3248785.14 kilobytes
Session Averages for Period:
Total sessions served : 24916
Average hits per session : 16.68
Average page views per session : 13.14
Average time spent per session : 187.23 seconds
Average bandwidth usage per session : 130.39 kilobytes
Session Origins for Period:
Total sessions served : 24916
Total search engine referred sessions : 2330 (9.35%)
Total referred session : 13796 (55.37%)
Total blind (no referrer) sessions : 8790 (35.28%)
Page Views per Session Breakdown:
12101 (48.57%) sessions made 1 page view
4697 (18.85%) sessions made 2-5 page views
2306 (9.26%) sessions made 6-10 page views
2077 (8.34%) sessions made 11-20 page views
2129 (8.54%) sessions made 21-50 page views
928 (3.72%) sessions made 51-100 page views
610 (2.45%) sessions made 101 or more page views
Time Spent per Session Breakdown:
17852 (71.65%) sessions lasted 1 minute
2975 (11.94%) sessions lasted 2-5 minutes
2777 (11.15%) sessions lasted 6-15 minutes
945 (3.79%) sessions lasted 16-30 minutes
195 (0.78%) sessions lasted 31-45 minutes
66 (0.26%) sessions lasted 46-60 minutes
38 (0.15%) sessions lasted 61 or more minutes
Page Usage Analysis
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Total pages tracked during period : 70
Total page views recorded : 325418
The average number of views per page : 4648.83
Top 10 most commonly accessed pages during period:
/scripts/thumb.asp with 167539 page views (51.48% of all traffic)
/forsale/view.asp with 13342 page views (4.10% of all traffic)
/members/view.asp with 12502 page views (3.84% of all traffic)
/default.asp with 12347 page views (3.79% of all traffic)
/contents/default.asp with 11112 page views (3.41% of all traffic)
/showimg.asp with 10618 page views (3.26% of all traffic)
/trips/view.asp with 10172 page views (3.13% of all traffic)
/bottom.asp with 9402 page views (2.89% of all traffic)
/main/default.asp with 9186 page views (2.82% of all traffic)
/forsale/default.asp with 7967 page views (2.45% of all traffic)
Top 10 least commonly accessed pages during period:
/landuse/edit.asp with 1 page views
/admin/rate.asp with 1 page views
/pics/default.asp with 2 page views
/jeeps/ with 2 page views
/links/edit.asp with 3 page views
/trails/thanks.htm with 4 page views
/main/ with 5 page views
/gallery/toobig.asp with 8 page views
/jeeps/default.asp with 8 page views
/tech/comment.asp with 9 page views
Top 10 most common error pages:
/scripts/thumb.asp with 1022 failed requests
/trails/trails.asp with 137 failed requests
/trails/viewtrail.asp with 94 failed requests
/trips/trails.asp with 57 failed requests
/trips/edit.asp with 52 failed requests
/scripts/root.exe with 46 failed requests
/scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe with 44 failed requests
/members/start.asp with 36 failed requests
/msadc/root.exe with 29 failed requests
/main/start.asp with 27 failed requests
Top 10 entry point pages (first pages viewed):
/default.asp with 9066 page views
/contents/default.asp with 1218 page views
/main/default.asp with 948 page views
/bottom.asp with 900 page views
/forsale/default.asp with 858 page views
/main/start.asp with 546 page views
/scripts/thumb.asp with 506 page views
/interact.asp with 490 page views
/jeeps/view.asp with 348 page views
/members/default.asp with 342 page views
Top 10 exit point pages (last pages viewed):
/scripts/thumb.asp with 2295 page views
/bottom.asp with 1737 page views
/forsale/view.asp with 1678 page views
/main/default.asp with 1402 page views
/forsale/default.asp with 1342 page views
/default.asp with 1286 page views
/contents/default.asp with 1256 page views
/trips/view.asp with 1180 page views
/main/start.asp with 862 page views
/members/view.asp with 745 page views
Top 10 pages which were the only page viewed:
/default.asp with 997 page views
/contents/default.asp with 822 page views
/main/default.asp with 560 page views
/forsale/default.asp with 473 page views
/main/start.asp with 355 page views
/jeeps/view.asp with 184 page views
/bottom.asp with 179 page views
/trips/default.asp with 179 page views
/members/view.asp with 163 page views
/tech/view.asp with 149 page views
User Agent Analysis
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Total sessions served during period : 24916
Most active browsers by type and version:
MSIE 5.x with 8252 sessions (33.25% of all sessions)
AOL 4.x with 7778 sessions (31.34% of all sessions)
Netscape 4.x with 6671 sessions (26.88% of all sessions)
AOL 5.x with 538 sessions (2.17% of all sessions)
Unknown with 534 sessions (2.15% of all sessions)
MSIE 4.x with 241 sessions (0.97% of all sessions)
Netscape 3.x with 215 sessions (0.87% of all sessions)
Netscape 5.x with 212 sessions (0.85% of all sessions)
Netscape 2.x with 156 sessions (0.63% of all sessions)
WebTV 1.x with 105 sessions (0.42% of all sessions)
Most browsers by brand preference:
MSIE with 13561 sessions (54.64% of all sessions)
AOL with 8316 sessions (33.51% of all sessions)
Netscape with 2192 sessions (8.83% of all sessions)
Other with 533 sessions (2.15% of all sessions)
WebTV with 119 sessions (0.48% of all sessions)
MSProxy with 53 sessions (0.21% of all sessions)
Opera with 44 sessions (0.18% of all sessions)
Most popular user operating systems used for access:
Windows 98 with 14718 sessions (59.30% of all sessions)
Windows NT with 6816 sessions (27.46% of all sessions)
Windows 95 with 1610 sessions (6.49% of all sessions)
Unknown with 1160 sessions (4.67% of all sessions)
Macintosh PPC with 329 sessions (1.33% of all sessions)
Windows 3.1x with 86 sessions (0.35% of all sessions)
SUN OS with 59 sessions (0.24% of all sessions)
LINUX with 35 sessions (0.14% of all sessions)
BSD UNIX with 3 sessions (0.01% of all sessions)
OS/2 with 1 sessions (0.00% of all sessions)
Top 10 new browser tags during period:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT; IE5080220... with 64 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Cox Hi... with 42 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; AOL 7.0; Windows NT 5.... with 35 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; AOL 7.0; Windows NT 5.... with 30 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 7.0; Windows 98; D... with 29 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 7.0; Windows 98; D... with 29 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; AOL 7.0;TargetAOL7.0; ... with 25 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 5.0; Windows 98; D... with 24 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98)::ELNSB50::... with 23 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 6.0; Windows 95; A... with 20 sessions
Referrer Activity Analysis
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Total sessions served during period : 24916
Total search engine referred sessions : 2330 (9.35%)
Total referred session : 13796 (55.37%)
Total blind (no referrer) sessions : 8790 (35.28%)
Total referring domains tracked during period : 11
Top 10 most active referring domains during period:
azvjc.org with 8438 referrals made (53.21% of all referrals)
yahoo.com with 2268 referrals made (14.30% of all referrals)
jeepsunlimited.com with 1523 referrals made (9.60% of all referrals)
pirate4x4.com with 1372 referrals made (8.65% of all referrals)
web.com with 647 referrals made (4.08% of all referrals)
google.com with 434 referrals made (2.74% of all referrals)
msn.com with 190 referrals made (1.20% of all referrals)
4wheeldrive.about.com with 125 referrals made (0.79% of all referrals)
4x4parts.com with 113 referrals made (0.71% of all referrals)
c-4-u.com with 104 referrals made (0.66% of all referrals)
Top 10 most active referring search engines:
yahoo.com with 2270 referrals made (97.42% of all referrals)
excite.com with 34 referrals made (1.46% of all referrals)
altavista.digital.com with 16 referrals made (0.69% of all referrals)
hotbot.com with 4 referrals made (0.17% of all referrals)
lycos.com with 4 referrals made (0.17% of all referrals)
webcrawler.com with 2 referrals made (0.09% of all referrals)
Top 10 referring URLs during period:
http://www.azvjc.org/ with 2153 referrals
http://www.pirate4x4.com/cgi-bin/readers.cgi? with 1277 referrals
http://www.azvjc.org/Contents/Default.asp with 1194 referrals
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/ with 1127 referrals
http://www.azvjc.org/Main/Default.asp with 617 referrals
http://azvjc.web.com/ with 594 referrals
http://azvjc.org/ with 544 referrals
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/? with 450 referrals
http://www.google.com/search? with 392 referrals
http://www.azvjc.org/ShowImg.asp? with 389 referrals
Top 10 NEW referring URLs recorded during period:
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/008705.... with 349 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/008501.... with 310 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum37/HTML/004125.... with 259 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/007761.... with 149 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/007240.... with 148 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/007330-... with 84 referrals
http://www.chaosextreme.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi? with 39 referrals
http://google.com/search? with 34 referrals
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zoa/message/12923 with 13 referrals
http://www.orfab.com/linksaddweb.htm with 9 referrals
Sessions by Network Location
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Total sessions served during period : 24916
Breakdown of American Traffic by State
Virginia, USA. with 6436 sessions. (25.83 % of traffic)
California, USA. with 2970 sessions. (11.92 % of traffic)
New York, USA. with 2231 sessions. (8.95 % of traffic)
Arizona, USA. with 1195 sessions. (4.80 % of traffic)
Minnesota, USA. with 821 sessions. (3.30 % of traffic)
Colorado, USA. with 612 sessions. (2.46 % of traffic)
Pennsylvania, USA. with 528 sessions. (2.12 % of traffic)
Florida, USA. with 396 sessions. (1.59 % of traffic)
Massachusetts, USA. with 395 sessions. (1.59 % of traffic)
Ohio, USA. with 331 sessions. (1.33 % of traffic)
New Jersey, USA. with 294 sessions. (1.18 % of traffic)
Georgia, USA. with 240 sessions. (0.96 % of traffic)
Texas, USA. with 216 sessions. (0.87 % of traffic)
Arkansas, USA. with 189 sessions. (0.76 % of traffic)
Illinois, USA. with 167 sessions. (0.67 % of traffic)
Washington DC, USA. with 138 sessions. (0.55 % of traffic)
Washington, USA. with 111 sessions. (0.45 % of traffic)
South Carolina, USA. with 108 sessions. (0.43 % of traffic)
Wisconsin, USA. with 106 sessions. (0.43 % of traffic)
Iowa, USA. with 105 sessions. (0.42 % of traffic)
North Carolina, USA. with 91 sessions. (0.37 % of traffic)
Connecticut, USA. with 76 sessions. (0.31 % of traffic)
??, USA. with 54 sessions. (0.22 % of traffic)
Michigan, USA. with 54 sessions. (0.22 % of traffic)
Oklahoma, USA. with 44 sessions. (0.18 % of traffic)
Maryland, USA. with 38 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Utah, USA. with 34 sessions. (0.14 % of traffic)
Oregon, USA. with 30 sessions. (0.12 % of traffic)
Indiana, USA. with 27 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
Missouri, USA. with 24 sessions. (0.10 % of traffic)
Kentucky, USA. with 17 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Kansas, USA. with 14 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Idaho, USA. with 13 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
New Hampshire, USA. with 13 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Delaware, USA. with 12 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Nevada, USA. with 12 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Tennessee, USA. with 12 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Maine, USA. with 11 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Louisiana, USA. with 11 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Hawaii, USA. with 11 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Alaska, USA. with 10 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Nebraska, USA. with 10 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
West Virginia, USA. with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
Alabama, USA. with 6 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
New Mexico, USA. with 6 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
North Dakota, USA. with 4 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Montana, USA. with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Vermont, USA. with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Rhode Island, USA. with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
South Dakota, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Mississippi, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Armed Forces with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Puerto Rico, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Wyoming, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total U.S. Traffic 18248 sessions. (73.24 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Canadian Traffic by Province
Ontario, Can. with 310 sessions. (1.24 % of traffic)
Alberta, Can. with 86 sessions. (0.35 % of traffic)
Quebec, Can. with 66 sessions. (0.26 % of traffic)
Canada with 35 sessions. (0.14 % of traffic)
British Columbia, Can. with 30 sessions. (0.12 % of traffic)
Saskatchewan, Can. with 10 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Nova Scotia, Can. with 6 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
New Brunswick, Can. with 5 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Newfoundland, Can. with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Yukon, Can. with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Manatoba, Can. with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total CDN Traffic 553 sessions. (2.22 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic by Continent
North America with 18844 sessions. (75.63 % of traffic)
South America with 119 sessions. (0.48 % of traffic)
Europe with 548 sessions. (2.20 % of traffic)
Asia with 337 sessions. (1.35 % of traffic)
Australia & Oceana with 35 sessions. (0.14 % of traffic)
Africa with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of North America
United States with 18248 sessions. (73.24 % of traffic)
Canada with 553 sessions. (2.22 % of traffic)
Mexico with 41 sessions. (0.16 % of traffic)
Jamaica with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Guatemala with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total North American Traffic 18844 sessions. (75.63 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of South America
Colombia with 73 sessions. (0.29 % of traffic)
Brazil with 16 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Argentina with 14 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Chile with 12 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Venezuela with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Uruguay with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Peru with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total South American Traffic 119 sessions. (0.48 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Europe
Norway with 359 sessions. (1.44 % of traffic)
Netherlands with 42 sessions. (0.17 % of traffic)
Germany with 31 sessions. (0.12 % of traffic)
United Kingdom with 27 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
France with 14 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Spain with 14 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Italy with 11 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Austria with 9 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Sweden with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
Finland with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
Portugal with 5 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Switzerland with 5 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Poland with 4 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Czech Rep. with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Russia with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Bulgaria with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Slovakia with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Hungary with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Greece with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Lithuania with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total European Traffic 548 sessions. (2.20 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Asia
Indonesia with 212 sessions. (0.85 % of traffic)
Taiwan with 42 sessions. (0.17 % of traffic)
Japan with 38 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Turkey with 10 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
India with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
China with 5 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Israel with 4 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Pakistan with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Malaysia with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Philippines with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Lebanon with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Korea with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
United Arab Emirates with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Singapore with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Viet Nam with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Thailand with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Jordan with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Armenia with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total Asian Traffic 337 sessions. (1.35 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Australia & Oceana
Australia with 27 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
New Zealand with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
Total Australian Traffic 35 sessions. (0.14 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Africa
South Africa with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total African Traffic 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
44646 From: Robert McNeeley <robert.mcneeley@p...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:35am
Subject: RE: Organized Clubs
No beating here. This is some great info. Thanks for the info.
Robert aka Fat Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: ROBERT NYBERG [mailto:r.nyberg@w...]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:19 AM
To: AZVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Organized Clubs
I have been reading along with the posts on organizing and I just wanted
to clarify a few things. First, just so you know, I am a member of an
organized club and a member of the ASA4WDC. I am also the Editor of both
and the Membership Chairman for ASA4WDC. There are NO plans to
discontinue the Individual memberships!
I have met some of you on the trail and at the Hunter party. I hope to
meet more of you in the future. I have been a member of AZVJC for a few
years and I think this is a great bunch of people.
Budget wise, the ASA has a very small budget with only one fund raising
event a year. The Jamboree in October. This is where most of the money
to fight land closures, pay for required insurance, publish the Wheel
Dust newsletter to inform all of what is happening in the off highway
world, pay for the land permits ETC. Individual memberships are
important. Every little bit helps keep the trails open. When you send in
the 25.00 for membership ( less than the cost of your smallest upgrade )
you become a member of UNITED also. 10.00 goes to united, 5.00 goes to
mail you your packet with stickers, patch, dash plaque, membership card,
Wheel Dust and more. That doesn't leave much for ASA but every little
bit helps. I know several of you are individual members and several more
are members through clubs. Having the Wheel Dust mailing list keeps me
up on this. Out of the 1000 to 1500 AZVJC members how many ASA members
do you think there are? Not very many. Please, if you don't want to
organize that's fine I can see both sides so will keep my opinions out
of it, join the ASA and help keep the trails open. Come to the Jamboree
in October and have some fun and meet new folks. I know many of you say
the registration fee is too high. It is only that much to pay for the
BLM permits, extra insurance required for non ASA members, and all the
other costs such as tents, J johns etc. This is 100% volunteer run by
many folks spending countless hours to make it happen. Many AZVJC
members also help with the event as trail leaders, Tech inspection and
other duties. Thank you. OK enough of that, I am passionate about this
but I don't want to be pushy.
The ASLD permits are another subject. ASA negotiated with ASLD to get
the group permits for club runs and functions. This was to save the
members a little money and keep things legal. I and most of the other
club members have our own permit on top of this as we need it for non
club trips, horse back riding etc. Here is an article from the last
wheel dust--
In recent years, the ASA4WDC has been increasingly using State Trust
Lands for the Annual Jamboree and other events. In addition, many of our
clubs and members have traditionally used the State Trust Lands, (often
without permits,) in years gone by. However, we have in place a
permitting system that covers our association and the affiliated clubs
for their events and four wheeling trips. Here is a summary of that
system and how it enables us to use State Trust Lands.
To start with, we must remember that the US Congress transferred a
large portion of Arizona lands from the federal ownership to the Arizona
State Land Trust, to be sold or employed for the maximum benefit of the
Trustees of the State of Arizona. This transfer was at the time of
statehood, in 1912. The primary beneficiary of the sale or lease of the
Trust Lands is the education fund of the State. Theoretically, in a
zillion years, all the land would be sold at auction to developers or
conservation organizations and the Arizona State Trust lands would be
gone. In the meantime, the lands are held in trust until they are deemed
eligible for auction in open sale. During this time, much of the land is
leased to ranchers or to mining operations and the proceeds go into the
Trust Funds, eventually to education.
The State Trust Lands are only available to the general public under a
permitting system or by licensed hunters or anglers actively hunting or
fishing (just carrying a gun or rod in the vehicle is not enough). The
individual permits are $15 annually, (one year from date of sale) or $20
for a family permit. These permits can be purchased at the State Land
Department offices around the state, Four Wheelers Supply in Phoenix,
from Sandee McCullen 480-832-8132 and at the Public Land Information
Center (PLIC) at Central and Van Buren in Phoenix. These General Use
permits entitle the permittee to camp (seven day limit), ride ATV's or
otherwise use State Trust Lands under the general rules of the permit.
However, the Arizona State Land Department and the ASA4WDC have
developed a permitting system to serve our membership clubs and for
ASA4WDC events that are held on State Trust lands. For $50 annually, the
ASA4WDC is granted a permit for ASA functions. For an additional $50
annually per club (paid out of the Association's general fund), all our
affiliated clubs and members are permittees. These permits are issued
under very specific conditions and rules. These are:
A. The permit is only valid for organized club-approved events or trips.
Pre-runs or scouting trips are also permitted, but the trip must be
sanctioned by the club.
B. All the members of the club should carry a copy of the permit with
them (just put it in the glove compartment of your vehicle). The number
of the permit is also on the membership card issued to all members by
the ASA4WDC each year.
C. The permit is only valid for club event/trip use. If you are carrying
passengers or goods for pay, you must have a commercial permit from the
State Land Department. Those permits are not available through the
ASA4WDC.
D. Guests of your club (or in your vehicle) are covered under the club
permit when on club sanctioned runs. Guests are limited to two trips;
they must join the club to continue to enjoy the benefits of the club
permit.
E. This is a special class of permit which has been negotiated with the
Arizona State Land Department. It's intended use is for Four Wheeling
only, by Association clubs and their members. It is not for other
purposes and is not your personal general use permit. The permits are
subject to revocation if we violate the rules.
Some examples:
1. My family wants to camp out and quail hunt on State Trust Lands
(STL), for the weekend.
This is a permitted use under the Arizona State Game and Fish hunting
license.
2. We want to ride our ATV's, picnic and do a little family four
wheelin' on STL.
You will need a family permit, available for $20 at the above mentioned
places. Your ASA4WDC permit is not valid for this activity.
3. A couple guys from the club call a wildcat run for the next day and
invite me, but it isn't a club run.
If you all have individual or family permits, it's OK. Otherwise, you
would be trespassing on STL. The ASA4WDC permit is only for official
club runs.
Finally, people that use State Trust Lands without a permit are
trespassing and subject to prosecution.
Brad Jones
Land Use and Conservation
ASA4WDC
I hope this will clear up any misconceptions about the permits.
I am sorry if I took up too much space with this post but wanted to
clear up some things. If you want any information about ASA Please go to
the web site asa4wdc.org and if you don't find it there, email me and I
will do my best to get it for you. You may now beat on me as you desire.
Bob
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44647 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:35am
Subject: Re: hosting cost?
As of right now, the hosting is provided to us free of charge from
CrystalTech. They provide us with 250mb of space and 6gb of bandwidth
per month.
Last month we used a little over 3gb, so we still have some time left
before we hit the limit there. When the website first started up,
after the first 3 months it used about 1gb/month. Obviously this
usage will grow as the membership does.
Currently we are using 70mb of the 250mb allowed, so we still have
room there.
Space and usage aren't a problem, yet. But, if we were to
incorporate, I'm sure that Crystaltech would want us to pay the $20 a
month this space and usage normally costs. Also I believe this
summer, we will be due to renew the AzVJC.org domain registration,
that is $15/year. $255/year to run the AzVJC.org website is not alot
of money, even if we only get $1 from the "active" members (about
300) it would be more than enough.
If we can arrange a one stop shopping place for ASA4WDC and United
memberships plus State Land Use Permits, then it would also be a good
time to collect (if we need to) for the website.
BTW, I sent a copy of the Statistics for last month to the group, if
anyone is interested.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "wishmaaker" <wishmaaker@y...> wrote:
> Is someone hosting the azvjc.org website on a personal PC or is
> someone paying someone else to host it?
44648 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 2:40am
Subject: Re: Statistics Report for azvjc.org.
THats pretty freakin cool.
44649 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 2:44am
Subject: MEMEBER SIGHTINGS
I caught Dan Cooley and company, a grey TJ, at ACME Road House In tempe yesterday. Arouind 630 or so, would have loved to come in but I was getting parts. Heres you Wave!!!!
John K
I put it all in Caps so you guys could see it with all the other pos.ts
44650 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:50am
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
The idea is to not use the "Group" permit, but include a "Family"
permit in the cost of the dues. That way everyone has thier own and
we could use the "group" permit (where we have to notify the State
Land Dept.) for big events. i.e. Christmas Party, Clean Ups,
Beginners 4WD 101 Class, etc...
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., Ralph Williams <ralphbw@q...> wrote:
>
> If there is an AVJC Inc.
>
> Will it then be limited to two runs a month on State land?
>
> I doubt you will separate the two entities in the eyes of the
> gov'mint...
>
> If this is true, doncha think this may be a BAD IDEA?
>
>
> Ain't going to mess around cutting and pasting the html posts so
> you will have to live without any quoting.
>
> Ralph
44651 From: Keith Haw <khaw@n...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:52am
Subject: Vendors
I have been tring to check the "Vendors" list under Classified but all I'm getting is a blank. Am I missing something here?
Thanks
Keith
44652 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:01am
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs: Mike's response to DougB
Sorry, I guess I chose to use a tactic the Greenies have been using
against us for a long time. Start with something fairly reasonable
sounding, which some will agree with and some will disagree and the
majority will be in between, then "negotiate" for something in the
middle.
BTW people this is EXACTLY how the Eco-Nazis get us. Look at what has
happened. I said (essentially) "Let's Organize, A Little." all those
opposed to it said "No don't change anything." In the end we'll
likely agree upon something in the middle. Fortunately I won't be
back next year chipping away again.
With the Greenies (this year) its: "You have 100 roads, lets close
10" the OHV community says "No don't close any." and in the end 5
roads get closed. Next year its "You have 95 roads, lets close 10"
and the process repeats itself. They'll keep coming back chipping
away. We need to learn to respond to "You have 100 roads, lets close
10" with "No, you have 100 acres of Wilderness area, lets TAKE BACK
some by OPENING 10 roads in there." Then are end result may be more
agreeable.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I think you got off on the wrong foot by introducing the "O" word.
Many
> people began loading their rounds and firing before war was
declared ;)
> This led to a civil war with no basis for it.
>
> (This is only a brainstorm. Not necessarily my opinion or desire.)
To
> expand on your idea...How about having Jr and Sr members? Senior
members
> are dues paying members, Junior members are free to lurk and post
on the
> list, join any run they want as they currently do. There is only a
> handful of real Pirate members though hundreds of people
participate on
> their list, etc.
>
> Scott K
44653 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:08am
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs: Mike's response to DougB
In a discussion about this topic, I received a great quote:
The bigger the village, the more idiots you have, and the louder you
have to yell for the crowd to hear you.
I think this makes a lot of sense right now.
David "idiot" Withers
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:01 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs: Mike's response to DougB
Sorry, I guess I chose to use a tactic the Greenies have been using
against us for a long time. Start with something fairly reasonable
sounding, which some will agree with and some will disagree and the
majority will be in between, then "negotiate" for something in the
middle.
BTW people this is EXACTLY how the Eco-Nazis get us. Look at what has
happened. I said (essentially) "Let's Organize, A Little." all those
opposed to it said "No don't change anything." In the end we'll likely
agree upon something in the middle. Fortunately I won't be back next
year chipping away again.
With the Greenies (this year) its: "You have 100 roads, lets close 10"
the OHV community says "No don't close any." and in the end 5 roads get
closed. Next year its "You have 95 roads, lets close 10" and the
process repeats itself. They'll keep coming back chipping away. We need
to learn to respond to "You have 100 roads, lets close 10" with "No, you
have 100 acres of Wilderness area, lets TAKE BACK some by OPENING 10
roads in there." Then are end result may be more agreeable.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I think you got off on the wrong foot by introducing the "O" word.
Many
> people began loading their rounds and firing before war was
declared ;)
> This led to a civil war with no basis for it.
>
> (This is only a brainstorm. Not necessarily my opinion or desire.)
To
> expand on your idea...How about having Jr and Sr members? Senior
members
> are dues paying members, Junior members are free to lurk and post
on the
> list, join any run they want as they currently do. There is only a
> handful of real Pirate members though hundreds of people
participate on
> their list, etc.
>
> Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44654 From: gev39 <gev39@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:11am
Subject: [FS] 73 Wagoneer : runs , needs work MUST SELL
Price: $1350 obo
Contact: Russell Gevarter gev39@y... h623-465-2939 w602-357-6210
Classic 1973 Jeep Wagoneer. Great camping/tow rig.
AMC 360, 2bbl carb, headers, glasspacks, TH400 trans,
front d30 w/lockouts, rear d44, 3:73 ratio, basic Quatratrac(single
range), 29 gallon tank conversion, front springover, 32x11.5
Pathfinder ATR tires.
Working electric rear window. 4WD works. Trailer hitch.
Has all its glass and lights, & drives really nice, but needs some new
brake shoes, e-brake cable, engine work (to fix smoke from drivers
side exhaust)
Fuel guage does not work. All other guages are working.
This is a 'fixer upper' I have not had the money or time to devote.
Located in New River, AZ
It will be sold as is: no tags, no emmissions cert.
Here are some pics:
http://www.azvjc.org/pics/150_01914125555.jpg
http://www.azvjc.org/pics/150_01914125428.jpg
http://www.azvjc.org/pics/150_01914125155.jpg
http://www.azvjc.org/pics/150_01914125912.jpg
Must sell ASAP, Make me an offer : )
Russell
44655 From: Beckham, Michael <Michael.Beckham@b...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:12am
Subject: Land use permits............
Where would I contact someone (official) about a family permit? E-mail?
44656 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:15am
Subject: [FS] 3"coils wanted!
Price: ?
Contact: (602) 271-1352
Looking for some 2.5" or 3" coils for TJ.
Kit or just coils?????
Joseph Hochmuth
44657 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:19am
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs
Bully Pulpit:
This term stems from President Theodore Roosevelt's reference to the White
House as a "bully pulpit," meaning a terrific platform from which to
persuasively advocate an agenda. Roosevelt often used the word "bully" as an
adjective meaning superb/wonderful. Roosevelt also had political affiliation
with the Progressive Party, nicknamed the "Bull Moose" party. It got the
moniker when Roosevelt ran for President as its candidate in 1912, after
declaring himself as "fit as a bull moose."
(source; Cspan Congressional Glossary)
I consider this quite a complement Scott, thank you. You might want to be a
little more careful in the future with *private* emails though, if I didn't
know you better, I might get Butt-Hurt... <grin>
Joe
> > Mike,
> >
> > I sent this privately. I'm keeping my public opinion quiet
> > until others
> > have had a chance to speak. I don't want to turn the list
> into a buly
> > pulpit as JW has.
> >
> > I want you to know that I really like your idea. It's a
> shame that so
> > few really see it as the easiest way to get the benefits of being
> > organized without the usual pains of an organized club.
> >
> > Once again I appreciate the effort!
> >
> > Scott Kruize
44658 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:21am
Subject: Re: Land use permits............
This a cut from a Stu email I recieved 4/08/01:
------------------
Call 602-364-2753 to leave your name and address and they will mail
you a
permit application. Or....stop by 1616 W. Adams in Phoenix and pick
one up
on the spot.
The cost is $15 for an individual and $20 for a family. Either one is
less
than a tank of gas for your Jeep! (Even those small tanks!)
Thanks.......Stu
----------------
It's funny how I save the important stuff.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Beckham, Michael" <Michael.Beckham@b...> wrote:
> Where would I contact someone (official) about a family permit? E-
mail?
44659 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:22am
Subject: Re: Vendors
You want to go to "consumer reports", then vendors.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Keith Haw" <khaw@n...> wrote:
> I have been tring to check the "Vendors" list under Classified but
all I'm getting is a blank. Am I missing something here?
>
> Thanks
> Keith
44660 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:25am
Subject: Re: [FS] 3"coils wanted!
I will have a part kit for sale soon, would include coils and
shocks. Let me know if you are interested.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
>
44661 From: az_jeeper_mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:27am
Subject: Re: Mike C. - Personal memberships being discontinued
The problem, as it was explained to me, is that ASA4WDC can't really
keep track of who these people are. I guess they're running into
some kind of liability issue or something.
Anyway it wasn't a "For Sure" thing, it sounded more like an idea
that was being tossed around.
Personally I agree with ya that it would be a mistake, but
unfortunately I'm don't have any input in what the ASA4WDC does or
doesn't do.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> You had mentioned in one of your post about ASA4WDC thinking about
> discontinuing individual memberships.
>
> This would be a serious marketing plunder. By this I mean it would
alienate
> people and more importantly funds away from ASA4WDC. Let's take for
example
> a freesbie, no one needs one but, they are kind of cool to have and
other
> people have them. Well now, if the only way to get a freesbie is to
join a
> club, how many people do you think would have a freesbie? If you
continue on
> up the line, if you had to belong to a club to get a freesbie and a
> companies only income was from freesbie sales, what size do you
think that
> company would be?
>
> We want, no we need a bigger company. So back to the original
statement,
> discontinuing personal membership would be a severe determent to
our sport.
>
> I know you did not make the statement you were just the messenger.
I think
> if someone were to say to me what you were told, I would tell them
they need
> to re-think their position for the good of all.
>
> --James
44637 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:05am
Subject: Re: Thank you and questions
You have several choices, and I am sure either one will work great.
Teraflex or Rubicon Express are the 2 you will hear about most. You
will get opinions on each, but either one is great. Get the trackbar
BEFORE you get it aligned. Joe is at 2602 W Townley, by Metrocenter
Mall, kinda. His number is 602-395-0840 or 623-937-3501.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., Darin Barbour <crin69@y...> wrote:
> Thanks to those who gave their input regarding a good
> rear bumper/tire carrier for my XJ. I have placed my
> order (Tomken) and should have it in a week.
> I would say I have one more bug to work out, but we
> know that would be less than truthful. However, I do
> have my next chore waiting on me.
> I have a 3" SkyJacker lift on my jeep. After the lift
> I tried to have the front end alignment done, but no
> one can get it right.
> Currently, the vehicle pulls to the right and is
> noticeably worse under braking. The vehicle is my
> daily driver and is sometimes used to transport the
> family, so I need it to stop straight just in case. I
> have seen the posts for Joe (FlexxyXJ) so that will be
> my next stop, but I have a few questions.
>
> One of the shops I went to said the problem was due to
> my track bar. We tried it with the relo bracket and
> it moved it too far, the stock location (of course) is
> also off center. His advice was to get an adjustable
> trackbar and then the alignment would be good.
>
> Does the adjustable trackbar and a good alignment
> diagnosis coincide with my symptoms?
>
> Who makes a good adj. Trackbar? Where is the best
> place to pick one up?
>
> (Sorry I should have kept the email) could someone
> provide me the contact info for Joe's shop?
>
> Thanks in advance to all.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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44638 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:07am
Subject: Re: Can you give us directions to H2H?
Brian....I always wondered what you looked like....:o)
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Hill
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Can you give us directions to H2H?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44639 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:14am
Subject: Re: Can you give us directions to H2H?
Which one? The guy lookin' for rocks to stack for the MOGs or the H2H guys?
~B~
----- Original Message -----
From: DougB
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Brian Hill
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Can you give us directions to H2H?
Brian....I always wondered what you looked like....:o)
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Hill
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Can you give us directions to H2H?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44640 From: JIM CASSADAY <liv2jp@m...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:13am
Subject: Re: monday trail run post.
marc whitrock and my self are planning on doing a trail in the sycamore creek area
meeting at four peaks road turn off from highway 87 at 10:00am . We would like to do
a 3.5 trail or more if possible . rocker panel pass would be a good one to start with
to warm up.
monday march 4th
10:00 am four peaks turn off
bring a lunch and drink of choice.
channel 4
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:49 PM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [FS] 4x4 posi lock
Price: $150.00
Contact: ebnhils@earthlink.net
4x4 posi lock for dana 30, new in box
Eben Hobson
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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44641 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:17am
Subject: RE: ATTN :: why CAN'T THE VJC--DAve W
Wow, touchy are we.
If you found a list that you already like, then use it, why change this
one. If it didn't work well would we have so many members!!!!!
Duh
Relax everything here is merely an opinion.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: kmichael02 [mailto:kmichael02@y...]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:49 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] ATTN :: why CAN'T THE VJC--DAve W
Hey Dave, Bite me!
I was asking a simple question. It's poorly thought remarks such as the
one you just posted that will begin to give people a negative impression
of members of this "UnOrganized" Club. Big Mouths like yourself, who
don't have the correct answer but feel the need to interject there
opinions all the time are truly a pain in the ***. I thought I
remembered a post a while back that you were leaving...Then Take off!!
What gives? Don't let the door hit ya in the *** on the way out!!
Why is it when someone asks a simple question, you always get some clown
who already monoplizes most of the post space, feeling the need to post?
Are you related to Al Gore?
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> Then goes use those and leave this alone.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kmichael02 [mailto:kmichael02@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:47 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] why CAN'T THE VJC
>
>
> Have a format like JU or Pirate 4x4...no offense but those formats
are
> cooler and easier to use????
>
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44642 From: Darren Richards <r50880@e...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:26am
Subject: Re: flat towing TJs with front lockers
Well, I'm only guessing it's the caster angle that is causing the jeep
tires to turn the wrong way in a tight turn (like maneuvering in a
parking lot). But that's the only place I ever have a problem. I've
probably flat-towed the jeep about 4000 miles with no problems so far.
In fact, I'm trying to wear down the Dunlop All-terrains so I can get
something with a more aggressive tread, but they just refuse to wear
out!
If I were to get the caster angle checked out, where would be the best
place to take the Jeep? Is that a job for Roosevelt Alignment?
darren
Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> I once talked to an RV owner who had a caster problem on the TJ he was
> flat towing. He managed to wear the front tires down until they were
> completely flat in about 100 miles.
>
> I imagine its pretty tough to see or feel that happening behind a big
> diesel pusher.
>
> I'd get the caster taken care of before you tow it again.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:36 AM
> To: Darren Richards; azcj; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] flat towing TJs with front lockers
>
> Well that's not good. If you don't fix the caster you should go to a
> trailer. Either the one that just carries the front tires or a full one.
> I have heard of people flat towing and tying down the steering so the
> wheels do not turn. What that does is fight the towing vehicle. Could
> end up wearing tires and putting stress on the hitch and tow bar. Just
> some observations. Joey K 93YJ www.desertjeep.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: darrenr@p... [mailto:darrenr@p...]On Behalf Of
> Darren Richards
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:37 AM
> To: azcj; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] flat towing TJs with front lockers
>
> I agree that if no torque is applied, an automatic locker should not
> lock around turns, and should not be noticable when flat-towing. I've
> got manual hubs on my Jeep, so it's not a problem either way. My
> problem is that I have longer shackles, which have messed up my caster
> angle. This causes my jeep tires to turn the *opposite* way in a tight
> turn when I'm flat towing. Not good...
>
> azcj wrote:
> >
> > A friend of mine wants to put lockers front and rear in his TJ. He
> > will be flat towing it behind his motorhome. He heard that some
> > lockers, Lockright specifically, tend to keep the wheels from going
> > back straight after a turn. Has anyone had this problem? He doesn't
> > want ARBs.
> >
> > Scott K, I know you have a non-ARB locker up front and flat tow, have
> > you noticed this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott E.
44643 From: ROBERT NYBERG <r.nyberg@w...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:19am
Subject: Organized Clubs
I have been reading along with the posts on organizing and I just wanted
to clarify a few things. First, just so you know, I am a member of an
organized club and a member of the ASA4WDC. I am also the Editor of both
and the Membership Chairman for ASA4WDC. There are NO plans to
discontinue the Individual memberships!
I have met some of you on the trail and at the Hunter party. I hope to
meet more of you in the future. I have been a member of AZVJC for a few
years and I think this is a great bunch of people.
Budget wise, the ASA has a very small budget with only one fund raising
event a year. The Jamboree in October. This is where most of the money
to fight land closures, pay for required insurance, publish the Wheel
Dust newsletter to inform all of what is happening in the off highway
world, pay for the land permits ETC. Individual memberships are
important. Every little bit helps keep the trails open. When you send in
the 25.00 for membership ( less than the cost of your smallest upgrade )
you become a member of UNITED also. 10.00 goes to united, 5.00 goes to
mail you your packet with stickers, patch, dash plaque, membership card,
Wheel Dust and more. That doesn't leave much for ASA but every little
bit helps. I know several of you are individual members and several more
are members through clubs. Having the Wheel Dust mailing list keeps me
up on this. Out of the 1000 to 1500 AZVJC members how many ASA members
do you think there are? Not very many. Please, if you don't want to
organize that's fine I can see both sides so will keep my opinions out
of it, join the ASA and help keep the trails open. Come to the Jamboree
in October and have some fun and meet new folks. I know many of you say
the registration fee is too high. It is only that much to pay for the
BLM permits, extra insurance required for non ASA members, and all the
other costs such as tents, J johns etc. This is 100% volunteer run by
many folks spending countless hours to make it happen. Many AZVJC
members also help with the event as trail leaders, Tech inspection and
other duties. Thank you. OK enough of that, I am passionate about this
but I don't want to be pushy.
The ASLD permits are another subject. ASA negotiated with ASLD to get
the group permits for club runs and functions. This was to save the
members a little money and keep things legal. I and most of the other
club members have our own permit on top of this as we need it for non
club trips, horse back riding etc. Here is an article from the last
wheel dust--
In recent years, the ASA4WDC has been increasingly using State Trust
Lands for the Annual Jamboree and other events. In addition, many of our
clubs and members have traditionally used the State Trust Lands, (often
without permits,) in years gone by. However, we have in place a
permitting system that covers our association and the affiliated clubs
for their events and four wheeling trips. Here is a summary of that
system and how it enables us to use State Trust Lands.
To start with, we must remember that the US Congress transferred a
large portion of Arizona lands from the federal ownership to the Arizona
State Land Trust, to be sold or employed for the maximum benefit of the
Trustees of the State of Arizona. This transfer was at the time of
statehood, in 1912. The primary beneficiary of the sale or lease of the
Trust Lands is the education fund of the State. Theoretically, in a
zillion years, all the land would be sold at auction to developers or
conservation organizations and the Arizona State Trust lands would be
gone. In the meantime, the lands are held in trust until they are deemed
eligible for auction in open sale. During this time, much of the land is
leased to ranchers or to mining operations and the proceeds go into the
Trust Funds, eventually to education.
The State Trust Lands are only available to the general public under a
permitting system or by licensed hunters or anglers actively hunting or
fishing (just carrying a gun or rod in the vehicle is not enough). The
individual permits are $15 annually, (one year from date of sale) or $20
for a family permit. These permits can be purchased at the State Land
Department offices around the state, Four Wheelers Supply in Phoenix,
from Sandee McCullen 480-832-8132 and at the Public Land Information
Center (PLIC) at Central and Van Buren in Phoenix. These General Use
permits entitle the permittee to camp (seven day limit), ride ATV’s or
otherwise use State Trust Lands under the general rules of the permit.
However, the Arizona State Land Department and the ASA4WDC have
developed a permitting system to serve our membership clubs and for
ASA4WDC events that are held on State Trust lands. For $50 annually, the
ASA4WDC is granted a permit for ASA functions. For an additional $50
annually per club (paid out of the Association’s general fund), all our
affiliated clubs and members are permittees. These permits are issued
under very specific conditions and rules. These are:
A. The permit is only valid for organized club-approved events or trips.
Pre-runs or scouting trips are also permitted, but the trip must be
sanctioned by the club.
B. All the members of the club should carry a copy of the permit with
them (just put it in the glove compartment of your vehicle). The number
of the permit is also on the membership card issued to all members by
the ASA4WDC each year.
C. The permit is only valid for club event/trip use. If you are carrying
passengers or goods for pay, you must have a commercial permit from the
State Land Department. Those permits are not available through the
ASA4WDC.
D. Guests of your club (or in your vehicle) are covered under the club
permit when on club sanctioned runs. Guests are limited to two trips;
they must join the club to continue to enjoy the benefits of the club
permit.
E. This is a special class of permit which has been negotiated with the
Arizona State Land Department. It’s intended use is for Four Wheeling
only, by Association clubs and their members. It is not for other
purposes and is not your personal general use permit. The permits are
subject to revocation if we violate the rules.
Some examples:
1. My family wants to camp out and quail hunt on State Trust Lands
(STL), for the weekend.
This is a permitted use under the Arizona State Game and Fish hunting
license.
2. We want to ride our ATV’s, picnic and do a little family four
wheelin’ on STL.
You will need a family permit, available for $20 at the above mentioned
places. Your ASA4WDC permit is not valid for this activity.
3. A couple guys from the club call a wildcat run for the next day and
invite me, but it isn’t a club run.
If you all have individual or family permits, it’s OK. Otherwise, you
would be trespassing on STL. The ASA4WDC permit is only for official
club runs.
Finally, people that use State Trust Lands without a permit are
trespassing and subject to prosecution.
Brad Jones
Land Use and Conservation
ASA4WDC
I hope this will clear up any misconceptions about the permits.
I am sorry if I took up too much space with this post but wanted to
clear up some things. If you want any information about ASA Please go to
the web site asa4wdc.org and if you don't find it there, email me and I
will do my best to get it for you. You may now beat on me as you desire.
Bob
44644 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:30am
Subject: Re: The good, Bad and the Ulgy.....
Clay:
I'm having trouble getting to the post site but I am a ASA4WDC individual member and didn't have a clue about the permit situation but will be acquiring one shortly.
Gary Holmes
The "Camo Cow"
Clay Forrester wrote:
Thanks....and I hope that is the case for ever member on the site. Butbecause a few emails I received, I don't think so. :-)Clay----- Original Message -----From: "Scott Kruize" To: "'scramzilla'" ; Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:02 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] The good, Bad and the Ulgy.....
Hmmm, I guess everybody must fit into the first group. I am anindividual member of the ASA4WDC and get a State Trust Land use permitevery year.I broke the rules and read your entire post ;)I agree with you 100%.Scott K-----Original Message-----From: scramzilla [mailto:allvol@cox.net]Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 2:41 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] The good, Bad and the Ulgy.....I've read most of the posts on the subject of Rock stacking, by-passbuilding and organized clubs ect....ect.... And I have kept and openmind about it. Most of the people in this group have done the same. Mylast message will address the people that I believe are the minorityfew.First let me give the primmer for this post. If you are a m
ember ofany organization that promotes public land use and helps keep it opento the general public.....Attend regular "clean up" events in yourarea.....Or attend or speak out at land issue meetings that try toprevent groups from closing more and more of our public land, the restof this message does NOT apply to you....I repeat, does NOT apply toyou.******************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *****Delete this message now if you fall into one or all of the categoriesthat I listed above.******************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *****After reading the VJC over the last few days I can see that the Yahooportion of the VJC is no more than a message board turned into a chatgroup. There is nothing wrong with that....just stating a fact. Thiswas even alluded to by several posting members. Now the other mainweb page is another story.....I'm talking about the dot Org. page. Itis set up like another club pages with Trips, members rides, events,yada yada yada. It is very interesting to me that the VJC tries veryhard not to become a club but is a club in spite of itself. It's likethe members of this group want to be a group but for one reason oranother, fail to go that extra step....(As I stated many times, Idon't care one way or the other)....just making a point.I have heard from many posters that trumpet the club membershipnumbers.....anywhere from a 1000 to 1400+. Now that is all well andgood but big numbers do NOT equate to a Jeeper behind every poster. Iwould be willing to bet that there are members that do not evenb
elieve in the recreational 4-wheelin' Yep! I bet there are a feweco-Nazis in this group watching and listing what is discussed....If Iwere one of their Ilk, that's what I'd do. Also, there are many peoplethat read this board solely for it's entertainment value.Entertainment in watching people smack around each other and watchingpeople post messages about 4-wheelin' that do not have a clue of whichthey speak.Now I would very much like to address the people that do NOT fall intoANY of the categories that I listed above. I'll call these people:Jeepers marooned on the Island of misfit toys. You know the Christmasstory. It's a place for toys that did not fit the "norm" as far astoys go. There was a "Charlie in the box".........and Water Pistolthat shot jelly.... Oh, and don't forget the Elephant with the pinkspots.......I think you get the picture. They are in a world of thereon. These wheelin' misfits don't give a flying
monkeys *** about clubdues, ASA or ANY organization that asks for money. Oh they havemoney. And have nooooooooo problem spending tons of it on their rig!They think that it's a by-gawd free country and they can do whateverthey want, whenever they want, and nobody by-gawd better try stop-um.Then you have the "I've been here longer that you" group of peoplethat will whip up a story about wheelin' a certain place for X-numberof years and that's just the way it's gonna be. It was free 30 yearsago so it's gonna be free now!......Most of the time they blameeverything on the younger generation.Which brings me to the younger generation. There are many youthsdriving Quads now that were not around years ago and these thingscause MAJOR damage to land a vegetation. A careless quad rider can domore damage in a week than a parking lot full of trail riding Jeeps cando in a year!Last but not least is probably most dange
rous group of wheelers outthere. It's the "no opinion whatsoever" group. They just go abouttherebusiness, not a care in the world until it effects them directly. Alarge % of Dune people are this way but last year they got their wakeup call. Yep! They were fat dumb and happy until the Eco-Nazis found aweed that is on the endangered species list growing in theDunes.......then BAM!!!!!!!.....Half the Dunes were closed in theblink of an eye.I'll summarize my point now by saying: EVERY MEMBER IN THIS GROUP CANCOME UP WITH $25.00 AND JOIN THE ASA! IF YOU ARE TO FREAKIN' CHEAP TOSPEND $25.00 A YEAR TO HELP KEEP THE LAND THAT YOU SAY IS YOURS......I CONSIDER YOU A PARASITE ON THE BACK OF EVERY WHEELER IN THISSTATE THAT LIVES UP TO THAT MINIMUM STANDARD. Now before you startsending me hate mail, make sure that you re-read the first sectionagain just in case you missed it.Clay Forrester
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44645 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:28am
Subject: Statistics Report for azvjc.org.
Very interesting stuff, check out the bottom where it shows the hits by country.
- Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics Report for azvjc.org.
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Server Activity Totals for Period:
Total sessions served : 24916
Total hits made on server : 415544
Total page view hits : 327344
Total non page view hits : 88200
Total time spent by all sessions : 4652194 seconds
Total bandwidth : 3248785.14 kilobytes
Session Averages for Period:
Total sessions served : 24916
Average hits per session : 16.68
Average page views per session : 13.14
Average time spent per session : 187.23 seconds
Average bandwidth usage per session : 130.39 kilobytes
Session Origins for Period:
Total sessions served : 24916
Total search engine referred sessions : 2330 (9.35%)
Total referred session : 13796 (55.37%)
Total blind (no referrer) sessions : 8790 (35.28%)
Page Views per Session Breakdown:
12101 (48.57%) sessions made 1 page view
4697 (18.85%) sessions made 2-5 page views
2306 (9.26%) sessions made 6-10 page views
2077 (8.34%) sessions made 11-20 page views
2129 (8.54%) sessions made 21-50 page views
928 (3.72%) sessions made 51-100 page views
610 (2.45%) sessions made 101 or more page views
Time Spent per Session Breakdown:
17852 (71.65%) sessions lasted 1 minute
2975 (11.94%) sessions lasted 2-5 minutes
2777 (11.15%) sessions lasted 6-15 minutes
945 (3.79%) sessions lasted 16-30 minutes
195 (0.78%) sessions lasted 31-45 minutes
66 (0.26%) sessions lasted 46-60 minutes
38 (0.15%) sessions lasted 61 or more minutes
Page Usage Analysis
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Total pages tracked during period : 70
Total page views recorded : 325418
The average number of views per page : 4648.83
Top 10 most commonly accessed pages during period:
/scripts/thumb.asp with 167539 page views (51.48% of all traffic)
/forsale/view.asp with 13342 page views (4.10% of all traffic)
/members/view.asp with 12502 page views (3.84% of all traffic)
/default.asp with 12347 page views (3.79% of all traffic)
/contents/default.asp with 11112 page views (3.41% of all traffic)
/showimg.asp with 10618 page views (3.26% of all traffic)
/trips/view.asp with 10172 page views (3.13% of all traffic)
/bottom.asp with 9402 page views (2.89% of all traffic)
/main/default.asp with 9186 page views (2.82% of all traffic)
/forsale/default.asp with 7967 page views (2.45% of all traffic)
Top 10 least commonly accessed pages during period:
/landuse/edit.asp with 1 page views
/admin/rate.asp with 1 page views
/pics/default.asp with 2 page views
/jeeps/ with 2 page views
/links/edit.asp with 3 page views
/trails/thanks.htm with 4 page views
/main/ with 5 page views
/gallery/toobig.asp with 8 page views
/jeeps/default.asp with 8 page views
/tech/comment.asp with 9 page views
Top 10 most common error pages:
/scripts/thumb.asp with 1022 failed requests
/trails/trails.asp with 137 failed requests
/trails/viewtrail.asp with 94 failed requests
/trips/trails.asp with 57 failed requests
/trips/edit.asp with 52 failed requests
/scripts/root.exe with 46 failed requests
/scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe with 44 failed requests
/members/start.asp with 36 failed requests
/msadc/root.exe with 29 failed requests
/main/start.asp with 27 failed requests
Top 10 entry point pages (first pages viewed):
/default.asp with 9066 page views
/contents/default.asp with 1218 page views
/main/default.asp with 948 page views
/bottom.asp with 900 page views
/forsale/default.asp with 858 page views
/main/start.asp with 546 page views
/scripts/thumb.asp with 506 page views
/interact.asp with 490 page views
/jeeps/view.asp with 348 page views
/members/default.asp with 342 page views
Top 10 exit point pages (last pages viewed):
/scripts/thumb.asp with 2295 page views
/bottom.asp with 1737 page views
/forsale/view.asp with 1678 page views
/main/default.asp with 1402 page views
/forsale/default.asp with 1342 page views
/default.asp with 1286 page views
/contents/default.asp with 1256 page views
/trips/view.asp with 1180 page views
/main/start.asp with 862 page views
/members/view.asp with 745 page views
Top 10 pages which were the only page viewed:
/default.asp with 997 page views
/contents/default.asp with 822 page views
/main/default.asp with 560 page views
/forsale/default.asp with 473 page views
/main/start.asp with 355 page views
/jeeps/view.asp with 184 page views
/bottom.asp with 179 page views
/trips/default.asp with 179 page views
/members/view.asp with 163 page views
/tech/view.asp with 149 page views
User Agent Analysis
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Total sessions served during period : 24916
Most active browsers by type and version:
MSIE 5.x with 8252 sessions (33.25% of all sessions)
AOL 4.x with 7778 sessions (31.34% of all sessions)
Netscape 4.x with 6671 sessions (26.88% of all sessions)
AOL 5.x with 538 sessions (2.17% of all sessions)
Unknown with 534 sessions (2.15% of all sessions)
MSIE 4.x with 241 sessions (0.97% of all sessions)
Netscape 3.x with 215 sessions (0.87% of all sessions)
Netscape 5.x with 212 sessions (0.85% of all sessions)
Netscape 2.x with 156 sessions (0.63% of all sessions)
WebTV 1.x with 105 sessions (0.42% of all sessions)
Most browsers by brand preference:
MSIE with 13561 sessions (54.64% of all sessions)
AOL with 8316 sessions (33.51% of all sessions)
Netscape with 2192 sessions (8.83% of all sessions)
Other with 533 sessions (2.15% of all sessions)
WebTV with 119 sessions (0.48% of all sessions)
MSProxy with 53 sessions (0.21% of all sessions)
Opera with 44 sessions (0.18% of all sessions)
Most popular user operating systems used for access:
Windows 98 with 14718 sessions (59.30% of all sessions)
Windows NT with 6816 sessions (27.46% of all sessions)
Windows 95 with 1610 sessions (6.49% of all sessions)
Unknown with 1160 sessions (4.67% of all sessions)
Macintosh PPC with 329 sessions (1.33% of all sessions)
Windows 3.1x with 86 sessions (0.35% of all sessions)
SUN OS with 59 sessions (0.24% of all sessions)
LINUX with 35 sessions (0.14% of all sessions)
BSD UNIX with 3 sessions (0.01% of all sessions)
OS/2 with 1 sessions (0.00% of all sessions)
Top 10 new browser tags during period:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT; IE5080220... with 64 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Cox Hi... with 42 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; AOL 7.0; Windows NT 5.... with 35 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; AOL 7.0; Windows NT 5.... with 30 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 7.0; Windows 98; D... with 29 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 7.0; Windows 98; D... with 29 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; AOL 7.0;TargetAOL7.0; ... with 25 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 5.0; Windows 98; D... with 24 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98)::ELNSB50::... with 23 sessions
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; AOL 6.0; Windows 95; A... with 20 sessions
Referrer Activity Analysis
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Total sessions served during period : 24916
Total search engine referred sessions : 2330 (9.35%)
Total referred session : 13796 (55.37%)
Total blind (no referrer) sessions : 8790 (35.28%)
Total referring domains tracked during period : 11
Top 10 most active referring domains during period:
azvjc.org with 8438 referrals made (53.21% of all referrals)
yahoo.com with 2268 referrals made (14.30% of all referrals)
jeepsunlimited.com with 1523 referrals made (9.60% of all referrals)
pirate4x4.com with 1372 referrals made (8.65% of all referrals)
web.com with 647 referrals made (4.08% of all referrals)
google.com with 434 referrals made (2.74% of all referrals)
msn.com with 190 referrals made (1.20% of all referrals)
4wheeldrive.about.com with 125 referrals made (0.79% of all referrals)
4x4parts.com with 113 referrals made (0.71% of all referrals)
c-4-u.com with 104 referrals made (0.66% of all referrals)
Top 10 most active referring search engines:
yahoo.com with 2270 referrals made (97.42% of all referrals)
excite.com with 34 referrals made (1.46% of all referrals)
altavista.digital.com with 16 referrals made (0.69% of all referrals)
hotbot.com with 4 referrals made (0.17% of all referrals)
lycos.com with 4 referrals made (0.17% of all referrals)
webcrawler.com with 2 referrals made (0.09% of all referrals)
Top 10 referring URLs during period:
http://www.azvjc.org/ with 2153 referrals
http://www.pirate4x4.com/cgi-bin/readers.cgi? with 1277 referrals
http://www.azvjc.org/Contents/Default.asp with 1194 referrals
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/ with 1127 referrals
http://www.azvjc.org/Main/Default.asp with 617 referrals
http://azvjc.web.com/ with 594 referrals
http://azvjc.org/ with 544 referrals
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/? with 450 referrals
http://www.google.com/search? with 392 referrals
http://www.azvjc.org/ShowImg.asp? with 389 referrals
Top 10 NEW referring URLs recorded during period:
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/008705.... with 349 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/008501.... with 310 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum37/HTML/004125.... with 259 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/007761.... with 149 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/007240.... with 148 referrals
http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum33/HTML/007330-... with 84 referrals
http://www.chaosextreme.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi? with 39 referrals
http://google.com/search? with 34 referrals
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zoa/message/12923 with 13 referrals
http://www.orfab.com/linksaddweb.htm with 9 referrals
Sessions by Network Location
Analysis for the Month of Feb, 2002.
Total sessions served during period : 24916
Breakdown of American Traffic by State
Virginia, USA. with 6436 sessions. (25.83 % of traffic)
California, USA. with 2970 sessions. (11.92 % of traffic)
New York, USA. with 2231 sessions. (8.95 % of traffic)
Arizona, USA. with 1195 sessions. (4.80 % of traffic)
Minnesota, USA. with 821 sessions. (3.30 % of traffic)
Colorado, USA. with 612 sessions. (2.46 % of traffic)
Pennsylvania, USA. with 528 sessions. (2.12 % of traffic)
Florida, USA. with 396 sessions. (1.59 % of traffic)
Massachusetts, USA. with 395 sessions. (1.59 % of traffic)
Ohio, USA. with 331 sessions. (1.33 % of traffic)
New Jersey, USA. with 294 sessions. (1.18 % of traffic)
Georgia, USA. with 240 sessions. (0.96 % of traffic)
Texas, USA. with 216 sessions. (0.87 % of traffic)
Arkansas, USA. with 189 sessions. (0.76 % of traffic)
Illinois, USA. with 167 sessions. (0.67 % of traffic)
Washington DC, USA. with 138 sessions. (0.55 % of traffic)
Washington, USA. with 111 sessions. (0.45 % of traffic)
South Carolina, USA. with 108 sessions. (0.43 % of traffic)
Wisconsin, USA. with 106 sessions. (0.43 % of traffic)
Iowa, USA. with 105 sessions. (0.42 % of traffic)
North Carolina, USA. with 91 sessions. (0.37 % of traffic)
Connecticut, USA. with 76 sessions. (0.31 % of traffic)
??, USA. with 54 sessions. (0.22 % of traffic)
Michigan, USA. with 54 sessions. (0.22 % of traffic)
Oklahoma, USA. with 44 sessions. (0.18 % of traffic)
Maryland, USA. with 38 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Utah, USA. with 34 sessions. (0.14 % of traffic)
Oregon, USA. with 30 sessions. (0.12 % of traffic)
Indiana, USA. with 27 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
Missouri, USA. with 24 sessions. (0.10 % of traffic)
Kentucky, USA. with 17 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Kansas, USA. with 14 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Idaho, USA. with 13 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
New Hampshire, USA. with 13 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Delaware, USA. with 12 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Nevada, USA. with 12 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Tennessee, USA. with 12 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Maine, USA. with 11 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Louisiana, USA. with 11 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Hawaii, USA. with 11 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Alaska, USA. with 10 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Nebraska, USA. with 10 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
West Virginia, USA. with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
Alabama, USA. with 6 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
New Mexico, USA. with 6 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
North Dakota, USA. with 4 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Montana, USA. with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Vermont, USA. with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Rhode Island, USA. with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
South Dakota, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Mississippi, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Armed Forces with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Puerto Rico, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Wyoming, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total U.S. Traffic 18248 sessions. (73.24 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Canadian Traffic by Province
Ontario, Can. with 310 sessions. (1.24 % of traffic)
Alberta, Can. with 86 sessions. (0.35 % of traffic)
Quebec, Can. with 66 sessions. (0.26 % of traffic)
Canada with 35 sessions. (0.14 % of traffic)
British Columbia, Can. with 30 sessions. (0.12 % of traffic)
Saskatchewan, Can. with 10 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Nova Scotia, Can. with 6 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
New Brunswick, Can. with 5 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Newfoundland, Can. with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Yukon, Can. with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Manatoba, Can. with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total CDN Traffic 553 sessions. (2.22 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic by Continent
North America with 18844 sessions. (75.63 % of traffic)
South America with 119 sessions. (0.48 % of traffic)
Europe with 548 sessions. (2.20 % of traffic)
Asia with 337 sessions. (1.35 % of traffic)
Australia & Oceana with 35 sessions. (0.14 % of traffic)
Africa with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of North America
United States with 18248 sessions. (73.24 % of traffic)
Canada with 553 sessions. (2.22 % of traffic)
Mexico with 41 sessions. (0.16 % of traffic)
Jamaica with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Guatemala with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total North American Traffic 18844 sessions. (75.63 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of South America
Colombia with 73 sessions. (0.29 % of traffic)
Brazil with 16 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Argentina with 14 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Chile with 12 sessions. (0.05 % of traffic)
Venezuela with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Uruguay with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Peru with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total South American Traffic 119 sessions. (0.48 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Europe
Norway with 359 sessions. (1.44 % of traffic)
Netherlands with 42 sessions. (0.17 % of traffic)
Germany with 31 sessions. (0.12 % of traffic)
United Kingdom with 27 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
France with 14 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Spain with 14 sessions. (0.06 % of traffic)
Italy with 11 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Austria with 9 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Sweden with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
Finland with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
Portugal with 5 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Switzerland with 5 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Poland with 4 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Czech Rep. with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Russia with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Bulgaria with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Slovakia with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Hungary with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Greece with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Lithuania with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total European Traffic 548 sessions. (2.20 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Asia
Indonesia with 212 sessions. (0.85 % of traffic)
Taiwan with 42 sessions. (0.17 % of traffic)
Japan with 38 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Turkey with 10 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
India with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
China with 5 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Israel with 4 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Pakistan with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Malaysia with 3 sessions. (0.01 % of traffic)
Philippines with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Lebanon with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Korea with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
United Arab Emirates with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Singapore with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Viet Nam with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Thailand with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Jordan with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Armenia with 1 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total Asian Traffic 337 sessions. (1.35 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Australia & Oceana
Australia with 27 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
New Zealand with 8 sessions. (0.03 % of traffic)
Total Australian Traffic 35 sessions. (0.14 % of traffic)
Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Africa
South Africa with 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
Total African Traffic 2 sessions. (0.00 % of traffic)
44646 From: Robert McNeeley <robert.mcneeley@p...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:35am
Subject: RE: Organized Clubs
No beating here. This is some great info. Thanks for the info.
Robert aka Fat Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: ROBERT NYBERG [mailto:r.nyberg@w...]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:19 AM
To: AZVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Organized Clubs
I have been reading along with the posts on organizing and I just wanted
to clarify a few things. First, just so you know, I am a member of an
organized club and a member of the ASA4WDC. I am also the Editor of both
and the Membership Chairman for ASA4WDC. There are NO plans to
discontinue the Individual memberships!
I have met some of you on the trail and at the Hunter party. I hope to
meet more of you in the future. I have been a member of AZVJC for a few
years and I think this is a great bunch of people.
Budget wise, the ASA has a very small budget with only one fund raising
event a year. The Jamboree in October. This is where most of the money
to fight land closures, pay for required insurance, publish the Wheel
Dust newsletter to inform all of what is happening in the off highway
world, pay for the land permits ETC. Individual memberships are
important. Every little bit helps keep the trails open. When you send in
the 25.00 for membership ( less than the cost of your smallest upgrade )
you become a member of UNITED also. 10.00 goes to united, 5.00 goes to
mail you your packet with stickers, patch, dash plaque, membership card,
Wheel Dust and more. That doesn't leave much for ASA but every little
bit helps. I know several of you are individual members and several more
are members through clubs. Having the Wheel Dust mailing list keeps me
up on this. Out of the 1000 to 1500 AZVJC members how many ASA members
do you think there are? Not very many. Please, if you don't want to
organize that's fine I can see both sides so will keep my opinions out
of it, join the ASA and help keep the trails open. Come to the Jamboree
in October and have some fun and meet new folks. I know many of you say
the registration fee is too high. It is only that much to pay for the
BLM permits, extra insurance required for non ASA members, and all the
other costs such as tents, J johns etc. This is 100% volunteer run by
many folks spending countless hours to make it happen. Many AZVJC
members also help with the event as trail leaders, Tech inspection and
other duties. Thank you. OK enough of that, I am passionate about this
but I don't want to be pushy.
The ASLD permits are another subject. ASA negotiated with ASLD to get
the group permits for club runs and functions. This was to save the
members a little money and keep things legal. I and most of the other
club members have our own permit on top of this as we need it for non
club trips, horse back riding etc. Here is an article from the last
wheel dust--
In recent years, the ASA4WDC has been increasingly using State Trust
Lands for the Annual Jamboree and other events. In addition, many of our
clubs and members have traditionally used the State Trust Lands, (often
without permits,) in years gone by. However, we have in place a
permitting system that covers our association and the affiliated clubs
for their events and four wheeling trips. Here is a summary of that
system and how it enables us to use State Trust Lands.
To start with, we must remember that the US Congress transferred a
large portion of Arizona lands from the federal ownership to the Arizona
State Land Trust, to be sold or employed for the maximum benefit of the
Trustees of the State of Arizona. This transfer was at the time of
statehood, in 1912. The primary beneficiary of the sale or lease of the
Trust Lands is the education fund of the State. Theoretically, in a
zillion years, all the land would be sold at auction to developers or
conservation organizations and the Arizona State Trust lands would be
gone. In the meantime, the lands are held in trust until they are deemed
eligible for auction in open sale. During this time, much of the land is
leased to ranchers or to mining operations and the proceeds go into the
Trust Funds, eventually to education.
The State Trust Lands are only available to the general public under a
permitting system or by licensed hunters or anglers actively hunting or
fishing (just carrying a gun or rod in the vehicle is not enough). The
individual permits are $15 annually, (one year from date of sale) or $20
for a family permit. These permits can be purchased at the State Land
Department offices around the state, Four Wheelers Supply in Phoenix,
from Sandee McCullen 480-832-8132 and at the Public Land Information
Center (PLIC) at Central and Van Buren in Phoenix. These General Use
permits entitle the permittee to camp (seven day limit), ride ATV's or
otherwise use State Trust Lands under the general rules of the permit.
However, the Arizona State Land Department and the ASA4WDC have
developed a permitting system to serve our membership clubs and for
ASA4WDC events that are held on State Trust lands. For $50 annually, the
ASA4WDC is granted a permit for ASA functions. For an additional $50
annually per club (paid out of the Association's general fund), all our
affiliated clubs and members are permittees. These permits are issued
under very specific conditions and rules. These are:
A. The permit is only valid for organized club-approved events or trips.
Pre-runs or scouting trips are also permitted, but the trip must be
sanctioned by the club.
B. All the members of the club should carry a copy of the permit with
them (just put it in the glove compartment of your vehicle). The number
of the permit is also on the membership card issued to all members by
the ASA4WDC each year.
C. The permit is only valid for club event/trip use. If you are carrying
passengers or goods for pay, you must have a commercial permit from the
State Land Department. Those permits are not available through the
ASA4WDC.
D. Guests of your club (or in your vehicle) are covered under the club
permit when on club sanctioned runs. Guests are limited to two trips;
they must join the club to continue to enjoy the benefits of the club
permit.
E. This is a special class of permit which has been negotiated with the
Arizona State Land Department. It's intended use is for Four Wheeling
only, by Association clubs and their members. It is not for other
purposes and is not your personal general use permit. The permits are
subject to revocation if we violate the rules.
Some examples:
1. My family wants to camp out and quail hunt on State Trust Lands
(STL), for the weekend.
This is a permitted use under the Arizona State Game and Fish hunting
license.
2. We want to ride our ATV's, picnic and do a little family four
wheelin' on STL.
You will need a family permit, available for $20 at the above mentioned
places. Your ASA4WDC permit is not valid for this activity.
3. A couple guys from the club call a wildcat run for the next day and
invite me, but it isn't a club run.
If you all have individual or family permits, it's OK. Otherwise, you
would be trespassing on STL. The ASA4WDC permit is only for official
club runs.
Finally, people that use State Trust Lands without a permit are
trespassing and subject to prosecution.
Brad Jones
Land Use and Conservation
ASA4WDC
I hope this will clear up any misconceptions about the permits.
I am sorry if I took up too much space with this post but wanted to
clear up some things. If you want any information about ASA Please go to
the web site asa4wdc.org and if you don't find it there, email me and I
will do my best to get it for you. You may now beat on me as you desire.
Bob
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44647 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:35am
Subject: Re: hosting cost?
As of right now, the hosting is provided to us free of charge from
CrystalTech. They provide us with 250mb of space and 6gb of bandwidth
per month.
Last month we used a little over 3gb, so we still have some time left
before we hit the limit there. When the website first started up,
after the first 3 months it used about 1gb/month. Obviously this
usage will grow as the membership does.
Currently we are using 70mb of the 250mb allowed, so we still have
room there.
Space and usage aren't a problem, yet. But, if we were to
incorporate, I'm sure that Crystaltech would want us to pay the $20 a
month this space and usage normally costs. Also I believe this
summer, we will be due to renew the AzVJC.org domain registration,
that is $15/year. $255/year to run the AzVJC.org website is not alot
of money, even if we only get $1 from the "active" members (about
300) it would be more than enough.
If we can arrange a one stop shopping place for ASA4WDC and United
memberships plus State Land Use Permits, then it would also be a good
time to collect (if we need to) for the website.
BTW, I sent a copy of the Statistics for last month to the group, if
anyone is interested.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "wishmaaker" <wishmaaker@y...> wrote:
> Is someone hosting the azvjc.org website on a personal PC or is
> someone paying someone else to host it?
44648 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 2:40am
Subject: Re: Statistics Report for azvjc.org.
THats pretty freakin cool.
44649 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 2:44am
Subject: MEMEBER SIGHTINGS
I caught Dan Cooley and company, a grey TJ, at ACME Road House In tempe yesterday. Arouind 630 or so, would have loved to come in but I was getting parts. Heres you Wave!!!!
John K
I put it all in Caps so you guys could see it with all the other pos.ts
44650 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:50am
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
The idea is to not use the "Group" permit, but include a "Family"
permit in the cost of the dues. That way everyone has thier own and
we could use the "group" permit (where we have to notify the State
Land Dept.) for big events. i.e. Christmas Party, Clean Ups,
Beginners 4WD 101 Class, etc...
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., Ralph Williams <ralphbw@q...> wrote:
>
> If there is an AVJC Inc.
>
> Will it then be limited to two runs a month on State land?
>
> I doubt you will separate the two entities in the eyes of the
> gov'mint...
>
> If this is true, doncha think this may be a BAD IDEA?
>
>
> Ain't going to mess around cutting and pasting the html posts so
> you will have to live without any quoting.
>
> Ralph
44651 From: Keith Haw <khaw@n...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:52am
Subject: Vendors
I have been tring to check the "Vendors" list under Classified but all I'm getting is a blank. Am I missing something here?
Thanks
Keith
44652 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:01am
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs: Mike's response to DougB
Sorry, I guess I chose to use a tactic the Greenies have been using
against us for a long time. Start with something fairly reasonable
sounding, which some will agree with and some will disagree and the
majority will be in between, then "negotiate" for something in the
middle.
BTW people this is EXACTLY how the Eco-Nazis get us. Look at what has
happened. I said (essentially) "Let's Organize, A Little." all those
opposed to it said "No don't change anything." In the end we'll
likely agree upon something in the middle. Fortunately I won't be
back next year chipping away again.
With the Greenies (this year) its: "You have 100 roads, lets close
10" the OHV community says "No don't close any." and in the end 5
roads get closed. Next year its "You have 95 roads, lets close 10"
and the process repeats itself. They'll keep coming back chipping
away. We need to learn to respond to "You have 100 roads, lets close
10" with "No, you have 100 acres of Wilderness area, lets TAKE BACK
some by OPENING 10 roads in there." Then are end result may be more
agreeable.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I think you got off on the wrong foot by introducing the "O" word.
Many
> people began loading their rounds and firing before war was
declared ;)
> This led to a civil war with no basis for it.
>
> (This is only a brainstorm. Not necessarily my opinion or desire.)
To
> expand on your idea...How about having Jr and Sr members? Senior
members
> are dues paying members, Junior members are free to lurk and post
on the
> list, join any run they want as they currently do. There is only a
> handful of real Pirate members though hundreds of people
participate on
> their list, etc.
>
> Scott K
44653 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:08am
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs: Mike's response to DougB
In a discussion about this topic, I received a great quote:
The bigger the village, the more idiots you have, and the louder you
have to yell for the crowd to hear you.
I think this makes a lot of sense right now.
David "idiot" Withers
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:01 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs: Mike's response to DougB
Sorry, I guess I chose to use a tactic the Greenies have been using
against us for a long time. Start with something fairly reasonable
sounding, which some will agree with and some will disagree and the
majority will be in between, then "negotiate" for something in the
middle.
BTW people this is EXACTLY how the Eco-Nazis get us. Look at what has
happened. I said (essentially) "Let's Organize, A Little." all those
opposed to it said "No don't change anything." In the end we'll likely
agree upon something in the middle. Fortunately I won't be back next
year chipping away again.
With the Greenies (this year) its: "You have 100 roads, lets close 10"
the OHV community says "No don't close any." and in the end 5 roads get
closed. Next year its "You have 95 roads, lets close 10" and the
process repeats itself. They'll keep coming back chipping away. We need
to learn to respond to "You have 100 roads, lets close 10" with "No, you
have 100 acres of Wilderness area, lets TAKE BACK some by OPENING 10
roads in there." Then are end result may be more agreeable.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I think you got off on the wrong foot by introducing the "O" word.
Many
> people began loading their rounds and firing before war was
declared ;)
> This led to a civil war with no basis for it.
>
> (This is only a brainstorm. Not necessarily my opinion or desire.)
To
> expand on your idea...How about having Jr and Sr members? Senior
members
> are dues paying members, Junior members are free to lurk and post
on the
> list, join any run they want as they currently do. There is only a
> handful of real Pirate members though hundreds of people
participate on
> their list, etc.
>
> Scott K
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44654 From: gev39 <gev39@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:11am
Subject: [FS] 73 Wagoneer : runs , needs work MUST SELL
Price: $1350 obo
Contact: Russell Gevarter gev39@y... h623-465-2939 w602-357-6210
Classic 1973 Jeep Wagoneer. Great camping/tow rig.
AMC 360, 2bbl carb, headers, glasspacks, TH400 trans,
front d30 w/lockouts, rear d44, 3:73 ratio, basic Quatratrac(single
range), 29 gallon tank conversion, front springover, 32x11.5
Pathfinder ATR tires.
Working electric rear window. 4WD works. Trailer hitch.
Has all its glass and lights, & drives really nice, but needs some new
brake shoes, e-brake cable, engine work (to fix smoke from drivers
side exhaust)
Fuel guage does not work. All other guages are working.
This is a 'fixer upper' I have not had the money or time to devote.
Located in New River, AZ
It will be sold as is: no tags, no emmissions cert.
Here are some pics:
http://www.azvjc.org/pics/150_01914125555.jpg
http://www.azvjc.org/pics/150_01914125428.jpg
http://www.azvjc.org/pics/150_01914125155.jpg
http://www.azvjc.org/pics/150_01914125912.jpg
Must sell ASAP, Make me an offer : )
Russell
44655 From: Beckham, Michael <Michael.Beckham@b...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:12am
Subject: Land use permits............
Where would I contact someone (official) about a family permit? E-mail?
44656 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:15am
Subject: [FS] 3"coils wanted!
Price: ?
Contact: (602) 271-1352
Looking for some 2.5" or 3" coils for TJ.
Kit or just coils?????
Joseph Hochmuth
44657 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:19am
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs
Bully Pulpit:
This term stems from President Theodore Roosevelt's reference to the White
House as a "bully pulpit," meaning a terrific platform from which to
persuasively advocate an agenda. Roosevelt often used the word "bully" as an
adjective meaning superb/wonderful. Roosevelt also had political affiliation
with the Progressive Party, nicknamed the "Bull Moose" party. It got the
moniker when Roosevelt ran for President as its candidate in 1912, after
declaring himself as "fit as a bull moose."
(source; Cspan Congressional Glossary)
I consider this quite a complement Scott, thank you. You might want to be a
little more careful in the future with *private* emails though, if I didn't
know you better, I might get Butt-Hurt... <grin>
Joe
> > Mike,
> >
> > I sent this privately. I'm keeping my public opinion quiet
> > until others
> > have had a chance to speak. I don't want to turn the list
> into a buly
> > pulpit as JW has.
> >
> > I want you to know that I really like your idea. It's a
> shame that so
> > few really see it as the easiest way to get the benefits of being
> > organized without the usual pains of an organized club.
> >
> > Once again I appreciate the effort!
> >
> > Scott Kruize
44658 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:21am
Subject: Re: Land use permits............
This a cut from a Stu email I recieved 4/08/01:
------------------
Call 602-364-2753 to leave your name and address and they will mail
you a
permit application. Or....stop by 1616 W. Adams in Phoenix and pick
one up
on the spot.
The cost is $15 for an individual and $20 for a family. Either one is
less
than a tank of gas for your Jeep! (Even those small tanks!)
Thanks.......Stu
----------------
It's funny how I save the important stuff.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Beckham, Michael" <Michael.Beckham@b...> wrote:
> Where would I contact someone (official) about a family permit? E-
mail?
44659 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:22am
Subject: Re: Vendors
You want to go to "consumer reports", then vendors.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Keith Haw" <khaw@n...> wrote:
> I have been tring to check the "Vendors" list under Classified but
all I'm getting is a blank. Am I missing something here?
>
> Thanks
> Keith
44660 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:25am
Subject: Re: [FS] 3"coils wanted!
I will have a part kit for sale soon, would include coils and
shocks. Let me know if you are interested.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
>
44661 From: az_jeeper_mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:27am
Subject: Re: Mike C. - Personal memberships being discontinued
The problem, as it was explained to me, is that ASA4WDC can't really
keep track of who these people are. I guess they're running into
some kind of liability issue or something.
Anyway it wasn't a "For Sure" thing, it sounded more like an idea
that was being tossed around.
Personally I agree with ya that it would be a mistake, but
unfortunately I'm don't have any input in what the ASA4WDC does or
doesn't do.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> You had mentioned in one of your post about ASA4WDC thinking about
> discontinuing individual memberships.
>
> This would be a serious marketing plunder. By this I mean it would
alienate
> people and more importantly funds away from ASA4WDC. Let's take for
example
> a freesbie, no one needs one but, they are kind of cool to have and
other
> people have them. Well now, if the only way to get a freesbie is to
join a
> club, how many people do you think would have a freesbie? If you
continue on
> up the line, if you had to belong to a club to get a freesbie and a
> companies only income was from freesbie sales, what size do you
think that
> company would be?
>
> We want, no we need a bigger company. So back to the original
statement,
> discontinuing personal membership would be a severe determent to
our sport.
>
> I know you did not make the statement you were just the messenger.
I think
> if someone were to say to me what you were told, I would tell them
they need
> to re-think their position for the good of all.
>
> --James