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Billy 4 hp
02-25-2007, 11:45 AM
I had a very enlightening hour long conversation with a BLM officer yesterday and he told me:

The current popular road that is traveled to get to Terminator, Pedator, etc crosses Private Land out at Table Mesa (area where the tan water tank is that got tore up real bad mostly due to quads playing in the mud when it rained recently). And this Private Land is being sought by a land developer who wishes to put up homes and a golf course!!! There are many many parcels of private land at Table Mesa, Black Canyon City, Lake Pleasant and this includes where the old P4W ranch used to be that will soon be multi million dollar homes and a golf course (I believe the course is about done at this site)... A lot of this land has been is families for generations (ranches, mining claims, etc) and now this land is worth so much $$$ that they are willing to sell to mostly land developers out for profit who care nothing for the OHV community...

We better start working together and get better informed before we need to drive 100's of miles to get to a place to go wheel'n... :(

SavageSun4x4
02-25-2007, 04:28 PM
You bring up many good points. However, lets take a look at history. Many groups have gone heads up against the government and and various special interest groups that had a different agenda. Three that I know about and worked inside of to keep our rights have been successful [Harley Davidson, Jet ski/personal watercraft and right to keep and bear arms/guns]. The wars are far from over, but the battles have mostly been won and the tide is in our favor.

That brings me to the OHV group and especially Jeeps or other full size rigs. Its rare to win a battle and in the "War" we are definitely losing. At best its a 2 steps forward, 3 steps back affair.

The best we can hope for is it will move to a pay-for-play like it has in Texas where off road parks have sprouted like weeds after a rain. Texas has in some ways been lucky by not having much in the way of BLM or Federal lands. So the free market place has stepped up and given us a place to wheel. Texas did what the OHV leadership community could not or would not.

Is a historical track record of losing a sign of future performance????

Sandee McCullen
02-25-2007, 05:55 PM
There are several parcels of private property scattered throughout the Table Mesa area. I'm not aware of anything that's large enough for a land developer but WE CAN MAKE THIS WORK FOR US. When this Bradshaw plan goes to the public we can do several things. Request a right-of-way through the property, request the land owner/developer to develop a plan that incorporates motorized and non-motorized recreation opportunities or simply demand BLM re-route major connecting routes around private property. BLM is mandated to "offer recreation opportunities". If we push with this issue they cannot ignore the request. I'm not sure where you're referring to but if it's where I think you're referring, the Black Canyon Trail goes through this area also.......... they are in process of building the non-motorized portion right now. They have been awarded large grants and awards for the work that has been done to allow recreation opportunities for both motorized & non-motorized.

Another big issue in that area is a power corridor running north south that will cut off almost every trail we have........ again we will need NUMBERS attending the meetings and writing letters when the time comes. A dozen won't do it.

Be glad they're dropping this kind of information to us. It gives us more time to prepare a plan............
Do you have a name?


I had a very enlightening hour long conversation with a BLM officer yesterday and he told me:

The current popular road that is traveled to get to Terminator, Pedator, etc crosses Private Land out at Table Mesa (area where the tan water tank is that got tore up real bad mostly due to quads playing in the mud when it rained recently). And this Private Land is being sought by a land developer who wishes to put up homes and a golf course!!! There are many many parcels of private land at Table Mesa, Black Canyon City, Lake Pleasant and this includes where the old P4W ranch used to be that will soon be multi million dollar homes and a golf course (I believe the course is about done at this site)... A lot of this land has been is families for generations (ranches, mining claims, etc) and now this land is worth so much $$$ that they are willing to sell to mostly land developers out for profit who care nothing for the OHV community...

We better start working together and get better informed before we need to drive 100's of miles to get to a place to go wheel'n... :(

FrenchChili
02-25-2007, 09:00 PM
Anyone on this board rich enough to buy a few million acres? A little private AZVJC playground wouldn't be too bad:rolleyes:

rsliman
02-25-2007, 09:39 PM
Anyone on this board rich enough to buy a few million acres? A little private AZVJC playground wouldn't be too bad:rolleyes:

ill pitch in my lunch money

RufftyTuffty
02-26-2007, 07:32 AM
Anyone on this board rich enough to buy a few million acres? A little private AZVJC playground wouldn't be too bad:rolleyes:

Yeah...all you really need is 20,000-30,000 acres of the right terrain.

....but this is still gonna run ya about $3-5M :D

~Mike

Billy 4 hp
02-26-2007, 07:35 AM
There are several parcels of private property scattered throughout the Table Mesa area. I'm not aware of anything that's large enough for a land developer but WE CAN MAKE THIS WORK FOR US. When this Bradshaw plan goes to the public we can do several things. Request a right-of-way through the property, request the land owner/developer to develop a plan that incorporates motorized and non-motorized recreation opportunities or simply demand BLM re-route major connecting routes around private property. BLM is mandated to "offer recreation opportunities". If we push with this issue they cannot ignore the request. I'm not sure where you're referring to but if it's where I think you're referring, the Black Canyon Trail goes through this area also.......... they are in process of building the non-motorized portion right now. They have been awarded large grants and awards for the work that has been done to allow recreation opportunities for both motorized & non-motorized.

Another big issue in that area is a power corridor running north south that will cut off almost every trail we have........ again we will need NUMBERS attending the meetings and writing letters when the time comes. A dozen won't do it.

Be glad they're dropping this kind of information to us. It gives us more time to prepare a plan............
Do you have a name?

He works out of the North 7th Avenue office.... I don't really know if it's proper to give his name out on the board so I will send him an email first... Don't want to bite the hand that feeds... Sandee you also might want to look it what Lake Pleasant has to do with all of this, as they are trying to eliminate illegal access (read this as they aren't getting paid)... A road of concern to the parks is accessed via Tip Top mine which is wala the road to Terminator, Predator, etc... Have your heard of the Bradshaw Mt. Coalition (sp?) just looking for more info...

Sandee McCullen
02-26-2007, 05:25 PM
He works out of the North 7th Avenue office.... I don't really know if it's proper to give his name out on the board so I will send him an email first... Don't want to bite the hand that feeds... Sandee you also might want to look it what Lake Pleasant has to do with all of this, as they are trying to eliminate illegal access (read this as they aren't getting paid)... A road of concern to the parks is accessed via Tip Top mine which is wala the road to Terminator, Predator, etc... Have your heard of the Bradshaw Mt. Coalition (sp?) just looking for more info...

County Parks are looking at closing the northeast corner access to OHV......... this is not the road to Tip Top Mine. OHV have done a righteous job of DESTROYING the lands around the lake. No respect, no common sense, no cares. There has always been a fee to enter the park of which OHV NEVER have paid................. we ask for some of these closures ourselves.

If the ranger was out of the Phoenix office I know all of them......... They don't have a problem with "giving their names out" but I'll talk with them the next time I'm at the office.

Sandee McCullen
02-26-2007, 07:58 PM
He works out of the North 7th Avenue office.... I don't really know if it's proper to give his name out on the board so I will send him an email first... Don't want to bite the hand that feeds... Sandee you also might want to look it what Lake Pleasant has to do with all of this, as they are trying to eliminate illegal access (read this as they aren't getting paid)... A road of concern to the parks is accessed via Tip Top mine which is wala the road to Terminator, Predator, etc... Have your heard of the Bradshaw Mt. Coalition (sp?) just looking for more info...

Sorry, missed this point.............. re the Bradshaw Foothills Coalition. Yes, I know of it. I was one of the founding members. It meets at the Peoria Police Dept. the last Tues of the month. 6:30 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Everyone is welcome and 4x4's are more than welcome. I am the only 4x4 in the group. Most are ATV's........ mainly because the initial issue that started this group was the misuse by ATV's along the west and north side of the lake and within private property. We are in process of evaluation the inventoried routes and are meeting weekly with County Parks and Dept. of Reclamation. This is the main road that leads to Crown King so 4x4's are definitely needed in this planning.

Watty
08-06-2007, 10:24 AM
1

Wayco
08-06-2007, 10:38 AM
Hi Watty, just thought I would give you a couple of tips on navigating our forum.
First, look in the blue line at the top of each post to find out when it was posted.
Billy is a regular contributor to this forum, but right now he is not on. This can be determined by the dot just to the right of his screen name. If it is green, he is on. If not , you could PM him. Click on his screen name and it will take you to another screen, there is a place that will allow you to send a "personal message" to him, much more appropriate for this kind of post. (Not related to the thread) I noticed that you have been with us for a while, but don't post often. Most of the members here are like you, so please don't be offended by my offer of help. Here is a belated welcome, and hope you find Billy. :)