D60

[Stoodty]

hey fellow jeepers! i dont know any axle lingo and i dont know whats what!
but i got for free a D60 that came out of a dodge pickup! i think it is longer than a tj's axle but not sure. would this be something to put money into to put under my rear????

[Oc1paddler]

I would have to say that its probably garbage. Being the super nice guy that Iam, I will come over tommorrow and haul it away for you.:D Just pm a good time.

[RufftyTuffty]

Maybe...it depends if it's a full or semi float.

Does it have a bolt on flange in the center of the wheel?

[Stoodty]

not sure i'll look at it tomorow but i think it does! is that good or bad??

[RufftyTuffty]

Good.

It means it's worth building....but it will prolly cost ya about $1,200 to complete the ultimate build.

* 35 spline conversion (if not already 35 spline)

* Narrow it maybe?

* Disk brake kit

* Locker/spool

* Gears

* Truss

* Link mounts

....and youre done.

[Stoodty]

havent went out and looked at it yet, but will the lentgh be a problem?????

[rockwerks]

havent went out and looked at it yet, but will the lentgh be a problem?????

you mean width? well it will be 6" wider than your TJ stock axle

[Stoodty]

will that cause a problem?? is there any pro's and con's??? to that extra 6 inches

[rockwerks]

yoru back axle will be 6" wider than your front axle. big problem. which means you need to replace the front to match the rear or retube the rear to match the front. It is also a different bolt pattern on the lugs.

[Stoodty]

how much do you think it cost to get tubes cut down?? wow there alot to this! well i new there was but, i dont know thanks for all the info i'll take pics of it! hell i dont know if it is even any good! iwas told by a friend of a friend of a friend type of thing! so who knows!

[ob1jeeper]

yoru back axle will be 6" wider than your front axle. big problem.
Not true... The only REAL problems with the width being that small amount different, is that the rear tires won't track on the same line as the fronts, which may be difficult to get good tire placements when wheeling, and of course, it will look "odd"...

FWIW: Many vehicles, (like the CJ/YJ/TJs), have differing front -vs- Rear track widths. In the case of the CJ/YJ/TJ, they are in the ballpark of 1" wider in front than the rear.

[rockwerks]

Not true... The only REAL problems with the width being that small amount different, is that the rear tires won't track on the same line as the fronts, which may be difficult to get good tire placements when wheeling, and of course, it will look "odd"...

FWIW: Many vehicles, (like the CJ/YJ/TJs), have differing front -vs- Rear track widths. In the case of the CJ/YJ/TJ, they are in the ballpark of 1" wider in front than the rear.

I take it you actually know very little about this issue, a wider rear will decrease steering and response (that is why front track is wider than rear). There are many issues it will cause.

[ob1jeeper]

a wider rear will decrease steering and response (that is why front track is wider than rear).
Don't know where you heard or read that, but the rear track width has ZERO effect on the the quickness of streering response, or turning radius, as the placement of the rear tires presents a turning pivot point that is directly relational to the wheelbase, not the track width... Longer wheel base most certainly will affect both, however rear track width will not.

There are many issues it will cause.
Care to name the other issues you speak of?:) ;)

[rockwerks]

Don't know where you heard or read that, but the rear track width has ZERO effect on the the quickness of streering response, or turning radius, as the placement of the rear tires presents a turning pivot point that is directly relational to the wheelbase, not the track width... Longer wheel base most certainly will affect both, however rear track width will not.


Care to name the other issues you speak of?:) ;)

Try it some time LOL:rolleyes:

[dirtgrip]

Stoodty-IMO get another full width front to go with what you have.I have D60's front & rear but they are both standard TJ width.If I HAD to have 1 axle wider then the other it would be the front.

[Stoodty]

like i said dont know anything on axles, but cant i just get tubes cut down to tj size???

[ob1jeeper]

like i said dont know anything on axles, but cant i just get tubes cut down to tj size???

It's not quite that simple. Not only will you need to shorten the tubes, you will need to shorten the shafts by the same amount... Neither of which is a low-dollar alteration, if done properly.

IF you choose to install the D60 rear, it would be a better trail rig, if it and the front were close to same width, primarily for the reason I initially stated regarding tire tracking.

IMHO, a better solution, should you decide that you truly need the strength of the D-60, would be to go with a matching set of "full-width" axles where the front is of similar track width and wheel bolt pattern, so that you can utilize the same wheels/tire combos on BOTH axles, and retain front-to-rear tracking.

The reality is , that unless you're pretty deeply geared, and/or running tires of 35 plus, with a finesse driving style as opposed to a banzai approach, you can get by for quite a while with stock axles. Just takes more finesse,a nd thoughtful choice of lines.

In the meantime, keep your eyes peeled for appropriate matching hardware, then use them as a learning and build up experience to get your axle swap set up ready to go, IF you still feel the requirement to head in that direction... OR be ready to toss some fairly serious $$ into this build to get it done properly and more quickly.

[Stoodty]

ok guys heres the pics! feel free to chime in! is this the good D60 or not is it worth pursuing??

[ob1jeeper]

If I'm not mistaken n(and of course if this old geezer can recall correctly), it appears to be consistent with the "metric ton" D-60's used in Mexican-built and marketed Dodge PU's, vans, and "SUV's" that were built during the 70's-thru-90's for mexican and central american markets.

IIRC, they are an oddball mix-match of parts, using the D-60 center section/pumpkin, and the outers of either the D-44 or the 9.25 Chrysler corporate outers... In any event everything outside of the pumkin itself are the lighter duty stuff... IE: tubes, shafts, non-floating wheel bearings, & 5 on 5.5 wheel bolt pattern, etc.

[ThumpAZ]

I was thinking the exact same thing as OB1.
The outers are semi-float and look to be 1/2 ton. The pinion splines are tiny and look to be 1/2 ton.
Realistically... until I saw the pick of the casting numbers and overall axle, I was thinking I was looking a a D44 or 9.25.
Open the cover and pull a shaft (there are bolts accessed through the hole on the wheel stud flange) and send pics.
It's still a free axle, and is going to most likely be stronger than your current axle. However, piecing together the parts to build it up is going to be a pain

[Stoodty]

ok so i opened up diff cover and here are some pics! i dont know whats, what ,but there no metal pieces or chunks everything turns smooth, i hope everything supposed to turn! LOL i pulled a shaft and it's solid 35 spline??? hope any of that info helps!

[ob1jeeper]

Unless Thump & I both missed it, it is one of those oddball Mexican axles.

However, as Thump says, all is not lost, it was cheap enough to start with, and may yet turn out to be a decent builder. But if it were mine, I wouldn't go throwing a bunch of $$'s at it right away, instead I'd put out some feelers for some parts, for the ratio and diff type you want to end up with, and see what the $$'s look like to do that, plus the mounting bracketry changes. And don't forget to price the costs of matching a front to this width, ratio, and wheel bolt circle. (and the costs of driveshafts and al lthe fab work as well)

Once you have that $grand total$, required to make this axle work for you, then you can make a decent $$ decision about whether this is still the best way for you to go or not.

As far as strength goes without some trussing, the tubes will never be quite the same level of brute strength that the "full-floater" D-60's are, but in a vehicle the weight of a wrangler it should be at the very least "ok". I have a buddy whose run one of these with 37's in a small block Chevy powered YJ for the past 6-7 years, with no issues at all, at least that I am aware of.

Good luck with your search for pieces & pricing, to help you with the decision...;)

[Stoodty]

yeah thanks whats the difference in a "full floater" and this one?? well sounds like to pricey and to time consuming for me to use, i'll just wait to find one coming out of a TJ! or go spend the cash eventually and buy one set up! oh well but before i decide to fully rule it out i'm gonna do a little more research!

[ob1jeeper]

yeah thanks whats the difference in a "full floater" and this one?? well sounds like to pricey and to time consuming for me to use, i'll just wait to find one coming out of a TJ! or go spend the cash eventually and buy one set up! oh well
First off, don't give up so easily... Parts ARE available for these, just not quite as available as the more common D-60's used in many US manuf. 3/4 & 1-tons... Just keep your eyes open for stuff, and price things to decide which is the most cost effective way for you to go...;)

A "full floater" is an axle whose drive axle shaft has but one job... Turn the wheel in which ever direction you elect to move. It is completely divorced from the wheel bearings, and can be completely removed and leave the wheel on the vehicle so that it could roll.

An example can be found on most 3/4 & 1-ton pickups rear axles, and on many of the earlier vintage 4x4 fronts, which use locking hubs. In order for a locking hub to function at all, you need to be able to un-hook the drive axle shaft from the drive flange...

FWIW: Warn makes full-floater hub conversions for a number of axles, even TJ's, which are designed to allow either flat-towing, so the driveline is not engaged, and/or to allow one (or more) wheels to be disconnected from the drive mechanisms, to allow it to be limped/driven off the trail, in the event of a minor driveline mishap, without resorting to necessary trail-side repairs. (at least that's what hopefully occurrs,.. that you don't break it SO badly that you're stuck repairing on the trail...):D ;)

[Stoodty]

a couple more!

[ThumpAZ]

OK, now I'm curious. What is the diameter of the axle shaft. You count 35 splines, but that means that it's actually using 60 internals, which it does appear to be. But that freakin pinion shaft just look too darn small :shrug:
I'd almost be interested in seeing it in person, but I travel full time and my back is too fragged to go anywhee but work and the doctor (and barely to either).
If this is the Messican axle, it is only following the steps in the semi-float shafts and pinion shaft (and I think both can be remedied). Most all rear 60's were 30-spline, the MX ones were a lot of 32 spline and the 1-ton/HD 60's were 35 spline. ???
This is a real bastard stepchild of an axle. It is using 1-ton splines, 1/2 ton flanges and bolt pattern and I still have no idea of the pinion LOL. Maybe a better pic of the pinion is in order. Hold something up to it that will give a reference to size (biz card, quarter, dollar???).
The internals are definitely 60, and the spline count is desirable.
Getting the axles cut and resplined... call Dutchman's. If they won't do it, they might be able to tell you who can. Cutting the tubes... hardest part is getting the outers off... but you have only the bearing retainer plate, so it's not that hard.
Realistically, you have a decent builder there, especially for a TJ running up to 37-38's (with a finesse foot as opposed to lead). I wonder what the tube thickness is... with that spline count and all. I should be at least .375" thick. It may even shock us all and be the sought-after .500"! This axle's full of surprises already. :)

[Stoodty]

ok i'll take a few more pics and try to take some measurements or something! and i'll recount splines just to make sure i didnt overlap on my counting!

[Stoodty]

ok here are a few more hope these help! it does have 35 spline shafts, i recounted, i put a quarter in pics to help reference size! not sure where i was supposed to measure but i stuck a L shaped piece of wire in the hole for rear brake block and measuring it the thinckness of tubes is right at 3/8 although this is not a exact measurement! if you tell me how i'll take ring and pinion out and take pics or try to find some numbers on them! thanks to all

Eric

[Stoodty]

thumpaz, measuring accrossed the end of axle shaft with out being exact and according to my tape weasure it's rt at 1 and 3/8's or maybe a little bigger, i dont have propper measuring tools! also the pinion is measuring about the same, hmmm i dont know!

[ob1jeeper]

thumpaz, measuring accrossed the end of axle shaft with out being exact and according to my tape weasure it's rt at 1 and 3/8's or maybe a little bigger, i dont have propper measuring tools! also the pinion is measuring about the same, hmmm i dont know!
Don't need fancy tools to get good measurements... All you need is a tape measure, a marking device, and some string...

To get a more exact diameter measurement of any round object...
- Wrap a string completely around the circumference
- then place a mark with a magic marker or ?? where BOTH ends of the string lay together
- remove the string and measure the length between marks
- divide that measurement of length (which is the circumference) by 3.14 to get the diameter of the shaft of wheel or ?

[Stoodty]

with that then i went out took measurements and converted them! this is what i got hope this is right!

axle shaft measured 4 3/4 so 4.75/3.14 = 1.51

pinion shaft measured 4 so 4./3.14 = 1.27

i got a measuement of 3/8 thickness from tubes so converted it and it = .375

any of these sound good?? or mean anything??

[ob1jeeper]

Yup... You got what I would consider a decent builder axle for a wrangler size vehicle With a little trussing, & proper gearing and diff selection, it could be made to handle quite a bit of abuse.;)

FWIW: IMHO, the D44's you have now for probably less $$'s for Cromoly parts, could be upgraded to perform at close to the same levels also. Save the $$'s of the fab work on this and a replacement front axle... But rather than take my word for it, do your homework, and get some pricing for al the upgrades/mods you want, then compare the $$'s and let that help you make an informed decision.;)

[Stoodty]

how do i know what gears it has now? are they stamped somewhere on them??

[ob1jeeper]

how do i know what gears it has now? are they stamped somewhere on them??
simplest is to count the teeth... then divide...

However, there should be stamped numbers on the ring gear such as 43-11, or something similar. In some cases it visible when bolted up, but in some it's on the mating surface to the diff. Rotate it around to see if you can find stamped numbers on it anywhere.

That will be the tooth count of the ring gear, and the pinion... simply need to divide the two...

Example; 43-11 would equate to a 3.90 ratio;)

[Stoodty]

the only numbers i found were on the out side of the ring! Dana 46 14

which would = 3.28

[ob1jeeper]

the only numbers i found were on the out side of the ring! Dana 46 14

which would = 3.28

Yup... them's what it is then... If you want to test it, count the teeth on the ring gear, and/or the pinion. ring will have 46, pinion 14...;)

[Stoodty]

Any one know of a great axle/rear end shop???

[ThumpAZ]

I do :D
DesertFab
480 288-4213. But we're on the other side of the Valley from you... many will say that we're worth it, though :)

Closed this weekend for the event in Vegas, but we'll be back and open on Tuesday, Feb 27th.

[AZXJ]

I'm in the shop today!! :D