blooddrive
01-04-2004, 12:42 PM
44335-44359
44335 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:59am
Subject: RE: "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
Bob,
Very well said indeed! I have participated at land use meetings and at a
BLM open forum, I addressed the land management individuals and said
basically the very same thing (except for the part that I've bene wheelin'
for 40 years.....man, you are SOOOO old!) (just kidding!)
Again, very nicely stated!
Timber Chucker!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: rlpeckii [mailto:rlpii@q...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:31 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
Well, I've read most of the recent posts regarding destroying trails
and the need to belong to an organized club to help keep the trails
open. I just can't keep it in any longer . . . .:-)
I have been wheelin for over 40 years and for the past 4 years here in
Arizona. We have some of the best, and most accessable, trails I have
ever seen, and I have wheeled in California, Alaska, Colorado, Utah,
Nevada, and of course in Arizona.
Recently I attended an AZVJC run out to Box Canyon and Martinez
Canyon. For me, this was the best wheelin yet. I found the members
to be friendly, helpful, knowledgeable, and very concerned about the
environment. I was proud to be wheelin with these folks . . .
Unfortunately, there were other folks out on this trail too. One in
particular was a well built "crawler" (looked like a modified Blazer
without the body), who took it upon himself to go off the trails and
run over bushes and trees to get by the slower vehicles. We also
encountered a group of trucks that were drinking heavily (the drivers
where actucally the ones that were doing the drinking) and pretty much
tore up their vehicles and the trail. In addition, we encountered a
lone pick-up truck that couldn't even make it up Box Canyon without
being strapped up.
I guess my point is that it is not the true "Jeepers" that we have
worry about, it is these sudo Baja Racers and Rock Crawlers that don't
read these posts (that would be assuming that they could read), they
don't even know that lands are being closed, much less they probably
don't care. Just look at what has happened to Sycamore Creek.
Everytime I venture out there, I am amazed that it is still open.
I have not seen any evidence that the members of AZVJC ever knowingly
damage the trails or the environment. While a few may be slightly
outspoken (grin). They do a lot for our sport/hobby and I only wish I
had more time and resources to contribute.
I had a few extra cents, so there they are . . .
Keep on wheelin,
Bob
74 CJ-5
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
44336 From: <msa12171@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 6:47am
Subject: Fwd: Heritage Funded Wildlife Refuge Center has Open House
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:12:41 -0700
From: "Az Heritage" alert@a...
Subject: Heritage Funded Wildlife Refuge Center has Open House
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Adobe Mountain Wildlife Center Open House
March 2 and 3
I-17 off Pinnacle Peak Road in north Phoenix.
10 a.m. to 3 p.m.
The Arizona Game and Fish Department is planning its annual open house at the Wildlife Center at Adobe Mountain will feature Arizona's native wildlife, wildlife presentations, andhands-on experiences for the entire family.. You can see how big a bald eagle is, visit the Nature Trail and discover the rich diversity of plant life that exists in our desert environment.
Admission is free although a two-dollar donation is suggested. Food, drinks, nature books, t-shirts, and crafts will be available. All proceeds from items sold go directly towards the care of Arizona's sick or injured wildlife, which the are rehabilitated at the Wildlife Center.
The Wildlife Center is a Heritage Funded project. Approximately, 90% of the Arizona Game & Fish Department's non-game budget is derived from Heritage Funds. Come to this event and see one example of how the Heritage Fund* benefits our state.
Directions: Take I-17 north, exit number 217B at Deer Valley Road. Cross Deer Valley Road, continue north one mile on the frontage road to Pinnacle Peak Road. Turn left (west), go on the overpass and then turn right into Adobe Mountain School. Park and follow the crowd or wait for the shuttle. Handicap parking is available. For more information, call (623) 582-9806.
The House has recommended taking $8 million from the Heritage Fund for the 2002 budget. The Senate has at the present time not included taking the money from the Heritage Fund but compromise discussions continue.
44337 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:49am
Subject: [FS] Skyjacker 3" Double Flex Lift
Price: See text
Contact: azxj@hotmail.com
I'm moving up in height and selling off this lift. You will get everthing. UCA's, LCA's, Coils, Track bar, Hydro shocks and disco's. Everything is in great shape, the Colis have not sagged at all and have maintained consistant height both sides. The LCA's have newer generation heim joints since the older ones were noisier. The only think I can come up with that is wrong with this lift is the LCA's have tire rub marks on em. The lift has been on my 97 XJ for 1.5yrs and it is mostly a everyday driver.
The Skyjacker 3" Double Flex kit was $1600 new w/ rear springs when I bought it.
I will sell the above listed for $600. I also have the rear springs but the passenger said spring has sagged about 1/2".
I will sell the pair with Hydro's for $100.
You could either try to get it re-arched or just put the lesser spring on the drivers side and they will even out in the near future (because there is more torque applied to the passenger side).
Local interests get buying priority. If no locals respond then I will accept emails in order of receipt: azxj@hotmail.com
Chad Mitchell
44338 From: Mike Hoyt <mike@v...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:50am
Subject: Re: Magazine Subscription at Expo
Ditto!
----- Original Message -----
From: rioshilo@aol.com
To: niitoyis@worldnet.att.net ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Magazine Subscription at Expo
Same here Gary, I'm still waiting for my magazine to come. Didn't they say we would get the March edition in the middle of February??
Rio
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44339 From: <rlpii@q...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:52am
Subject: Re: "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
Thanks T/C :-)
I'm not rrreeeaaallly that old, drove my first Jeep (my dad's CJ-2A) when I
was only 10.
But, some days I feel . . . . .
Thanks again,
Bob
74 CJ-5
Stu Olson wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Very well said indeed! I have participated at land use meetings and at a
> BLM open forum, I addressed the land management individuals and said
> basically the very same thing (except for the part that I've bene wheelin'
> for 40 years.....man, you are SOOOO old!) (just kidding!)
>
> Again, very nicely stated!
>
> Timber Chucker!
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rlpeckii [mailto:rlpii@q...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:31 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
>
> Well, I've read most of the recent posts regarding destroying trails
> and the need to belong to an organized club to help keep the trails
> open. I just can't keep it in any longer . . . .:-)
>
> I have been wheelin for over 40 years and for the past 4 years here in
> Arizona. We have some of the best, and most accessable, trails I have
> ever seen, and I have wheeled in California, Alaska, Colorado, Utah,
> Nevada, and of course in Arizona.
>
> Recently I attended an AZVJC run out to Box Canyon and Martinez
> Canyon. For me, this was the best wheelin yet. I found the members
> to be friendly, helpful, knowledgeable, and very concerned about the
> environment. I was proud to be wheelin with these folks . . .
>
> Unfortunately, there were other folks out on this trail too. One in
> particular was a well built "crawler" (looked like a modified Blazer
> without the body), who took it upon himself to go off the trails and
> run over bushes and trees to get by the slower vehicles. We also
> encountered a group of trucks that were drinking heavily (the drivers
> where actucally the ones that were doing the drinking) and pretty much
> tore up their vehicles and the trail. In addition, we encountered a
> lone pick-up truck that couldn't even make it up Box Canyon without
> being strapped up.
>
> I guess my point is that it is not the true "Jeepers" that we have
> worry about, it is these sudo Baja Racers and Rock Crawlers that don't
> read these posts (that would be assuming that they could read), they
> don't even know that lands are being closed, much less they probably
> don't care. Just look at what has happened to Sycamore Creek.
> Everytime I venture out there, I am amazed that it is still open.
>
> I have not seen any evidence that the members of AZVJC ever knowingly
> damage the trails or the environment. While a few may be slightly
> outspoken (grin). They do a lot for our sport/hobby and I only wish I
> had more time and resources to contribute.
>
> I had a few extra cents, so there they are . . .
>
> Keep on wheelin,
> Bob
> 74 CJ-5
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44340 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:52am
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
simply need to pay dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
as well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
44341 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:56am
Subject: RE: Organized Clubs
Looks like my stickers are coming off!!!
Leave it alone. If I want to give money to dues, I'll give it to the ASA4wdc.
let me know when this happens so I may remove myself form the e-mail list
Sincerely
David R. W. Withers
-----Original Message-----
From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:Mike@AzChatfield.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:29 AM
To: 'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] Organized Clubs
To all of those that already belong to an organized club, you may now delete this message (or continue reading if you're curious).
For everyone here that is interested:
I talked to Sandee McCullen at the cleanup in January and have been trying to figure out a way to bring this up to the group. Well it looks like this may be the perfect time with all that has happened in the past day or so.
We can make the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club an incorporated club and become a member club of the Arizona State Association of 4WD Clubs WITHOUT organizing (at least not any more than we already have). Sandee said that we need three "officers" and bylaws, we don't have to have membership requirements, elections, "official" club runs. All the bylaws have to say is who the officers are, how new members join, and when we have meetings (even if it is never).
Here is the way it would work. As it is now, anyone can join the AzVJC via the website and post messages to the group, this WILL NOT change. What changes is, once someone has joined the AzVJC and gone on one run (so we can verify that they live in Arizona and HAVE a JEEP) then they can join the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club Incorporated (AzVJC Inc). All they have to do is pay their dues for the year. If they want to drop out of the AzVJC Inc then they just don't pay the dues; it doesn't mean that they will be dropped from the website or mailing list. Nothing else changes... all we're doing is adding another option for our members.
Here is what I'm thinking for the incorporation:
For the three officers:
President - Responsible for turning in New Membership Information to ASA4WDC, attend ASA4WDC meetings. (I nominate DougB if he's interested)
Treasurer - Responsible for collecting money from members and paying ASA4WDC and Az State. (I nominate Jon Loveless, if he's interested, since he already does alot with stickers, etc...)
Webmaster - Responsible for maintaining the website and e-mail list.
How to become a New Member: 1. Join the AzVJC 2. Go on a run with the AzVJC (with at least one member of the AzVJC Inc present) 3. Pay Dues. That's it.
How to become a Non Member: 1. Don't pay your dues.
Meetings and Elections: None. If a club officer steps down, he/she chooses the replacement.
Dues: I am thinking since Az State has decided that clubs are only allowed 2 runs per month that we just include an individual permit in the cost of the dues for the year. This way members of the AzVJC Inc are double covered and they won't have to remember to get one every year (like me). Also included in the cost of dues would be ASA4WDC membership. Because of the incorporation, we'll likely have to start paying for the webspace (which we currently get for free) which is $21.25/month. We could also include things like paying to get rid of advertisements on Yahoo Groups, extra stickers to hand out at events, flyers, banners, etc... I estimate roughly $40/year which is right in line with most clubs.
The benefits are: 1. The AzVJC will be covered by the ASA4WDC million dollar insurance. 2. ASA4WDC and united will get more money to fight the eco-nazis. 3. The AzVJC will finally be recognized as the largest club at the ASA4WDC Jamboree :) 4. I'm sure there's more but my mind is drawing a blank.
The downside is: 1. Paying Dues. 2. There are no other downsides, other than paying dues, nothing changes, and you only have to pay dues if you want to (you just remain a member of AzVJC but not AzVJC Inc).
Does this make sense? I'll post a poll to find out how many may be interested. The initial start up costs will depend on the number of people starting the AzVJC Inc as incorporation can initially be expensive ($500?) ALSO, if anyone has been through the incorporation process before, we could use your assistance.
Thanks,
- Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44342 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:03pm
Subject: RE: Re: Thanks (more)
What happened to all the people that jumped down my throat (flamed me)
for wanting to change/add a few things to the club?!!!
Have you already joined another one?
David Withers
-----Original Message-----
From: Jayke Thorpe [mailto:jeepboy_3@y...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:54 AM
To: Ross Skinner; AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
I think the AZVJC is great!
--- Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...> wrote:
> After hearing some of the LIMITATIONS being placed
> upon the clubs by the
> State and I am sure the Feds are not far behind...I
> am alarmed...who in the
> hell rolled over and let themselves be boxed in like
> that. You are not
> using state lands for profit...where is there an
> ordinance allowing them
> that kind of control?
>
> If you don't think this is not a methodical effort
> to get your access
> ultimately removed or severely limited ...lets say
> one run a quarter..I have
> a bridge to sell you.
>
> Yes, clubs can be fun and can focus activism to
> better influence
> bureaucrats, but, it is looking like the usual
> closed cliques (you know,
> care more, know more, better, smarter and so on) are
> forming and are doing
> things that may not be in the best interest of our
> use of our lands. Again,
> I am not sure of this but it seems to be a
> consistent outcome of groups like
> this.
>
> Now it is our responsibility as independents to do
> things and say things
> that represent a broader reality of our desires then
> what some small
> cliquish clubs think.
>
> This has been an interesting discussion.
>
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clay Forrester [mailto:allvol@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:07 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; akamofoe
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
>
>
> What will end up happing is that your land (private
> property) would be the
> last to go.....that's all. The rest of the public
> State land and the rest of
> the country would lose theirs. I for one do not want
> to go wheelin' in the
> same area over and over and over................Do
> you? If we lose the
> clubs, we lose it all
>
>
> Clay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "akamofoe" <akamoefo@h...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:17 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
>
>
> > I've been wheel'n for more than 20 years now and
> have never been a
> > member of a club that collects dues. It's always
> been a good group of
> > friends, their friends, etc.. Don't get me wrong,
> I agree that those
> > clubs (or organizations) that are collecting money
> (I mean dues) are
> > using them for good purposes, keeping our lands
> open.
> > But I had an Idea. Why don't we get together and
> start a non-profit
> > organization, collect donations (tax deductible),
> contact a couple of
> > the Big Three Dealers, some Magazines, etc.. With
> all those
> > contributions we could go out and purchase our own
> land and open our
> > own OHV area. Select a couple of area groups to
> head a panel to
> > oversee OUR LANDS.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
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44343 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
Hi Mike,
Will there be a signup sheet for those interested who would participate? There are probably a lot of people out here like me who would buy into this. If there is a signup area will it be made public so we can see who does want to participate? There are probably a lot of conventional thinkers who are just lurking that may sign up.
~B~
----- Original Message -----
From: az_jeeper_mike
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
simply need to pay dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
as well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44344 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Thanks (more)
Don't worry... We'll hear from them soon enough.
----- Original Message -----
From: David R. W. Withers
To: 'Jayke Thorpe' ; 'Ross Skinner' ; 'AZVJC (E-mail)'
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
What happened to all the people that jumped down my throat (flamed me)
for wanting to change/add a few things to the club?!!!
Have you already joined another one?
David Withers
-----Original Message-----
From: Jayke Thorpe [mailto:jeepboy_3@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:54 AM
To: Ross Skinner; AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
I think the AZVJC is great!
--- Ross Skinner <rskinner@s2bsi.com> wrote:
> After hearing some of the LIMITATIONS being placed
> upon the clubs by the
> State and I am sure the Feds are not far behind...I
> am alarmed...who in the
> hell rolled over and let themselves be boxed in like
> that. You are not
> using state lands for profit...where is there an
> ordinance allowing them
> that kind of control?
>
> If you don't think this is not a methodical effort
> to get your access
> ultimately removed or severely limited ...lets say
> one run a quarter..I have
> a bridge to sell you.
>
> Yes, clubs can be fun and can focus activism to
> better influence
> bureaucrats, but, it is looking like the usual
> closed cliques (you know,
> care more, know more, better, smarter and so on) are
> forming and are doing
> things that may not be in the best interest of our
> use of our lands. Again,
> I am not sure of this but it seems to be a
> consistent outcome of groups like
> this.
>
> Now it is our responsibility as independents to do
> things and say things
> that represent a broader reality of our desires then
> what some small
> cliquish clubs think.
>
> This has been an interesting discussion.
>
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clay Forrester [mailto:allvol@cox.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:07 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; akamofoe
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
>
>
> What will end up happing is that your land (private
> property) would be the
> last to go.....that's all. The rest of the public
> State land and the rest of
> the country would lose theirs. I for one do not want
> to go wheelin' in the
> same area over and over and over................Do
> you? If we lose the
> clubs, we lose it all
>
>
> Clay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "akamofoe" <akamoefo@hotmail.com>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:17 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
>
>
> > I've been wheel'n for more than 20 years now and
> have never been a
> > member of a club that collects dues. It's always
> been a good group of
> > friends, their friends, etc.. Don't get me wrong,
> I agree that those
> > clubs (or organizations) that are collecting money
> (I mean dues) are
> > using them for good purposes, keeping our lands
> open.
> > But I had an Idea. Why don't we get together and
> start a non-profit
> > organization, collect donations (tax deductible),
> contact a couple of
> > the Big Three Dealers, some Magazines, etc.. With
> all those
> > contributions we could go out and purchase our own
> land and open our
> > own OHV area. Select a couple of area groups to
> head a panel to
> > oversee OUR LANDS.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
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44345 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:09pm
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs
If you want to help out, give your money to those organized clubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the AzVJC
as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club. The AzVJC
will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as they please,
there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules, just as it is now.
However, members of the AzVJC will have the OPTION to join the 2nd club
and the only requirement that is different is that they will need to pay
dues; in addition, the other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep)
will simply be enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything else.
However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a shadow
of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing for both the
individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be part of the
AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you simply need to pay
dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the V
stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name. Any
other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona Jeep
Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree that
the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a thing, those
that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join the shadow club.
All we need is enough interest to see it through and enough initial
members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated Club"
in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to. I
suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers as
well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members of
the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club." The
idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via PayPal
and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write and mail,
just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't interest
anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be willing to
let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via PayPal? Since the
Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44346 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:13pm
Subject: [FS] TJ 2.5" Rancho Rockcrawler lift (complete)
Price: 400$ OBO
Contact: mikebeach2002@yahoo.com 602-405-4606
4-Rancho RSX Shocks
4-Lower control arms
4-2.5" Springs
1-Track bar relocating bracket.
1-Front track bar
1-Set of Front brake lines
1-Set of rear sway bar extensions
The only thing your gonna need is Swaybar discos.
Im looking to get 400$ and will deliver
E-mail me and let me know if this is too high
Thanks
Mike
Mike Beach
44347 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
I have a intrest I live in Flagstaff, I have a 92YJ 5in ProComp suspenision
with 1in body dana 35 rear 4.56 and dana 30 front tera low warn 9500HS winch
35in ProComp tires new to sport
----- Original Message -----
From: "az_jeeper_mike" <azvjc@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
> Joe,
>
> I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
> AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
> The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
> they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
> just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
> OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
> different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
> other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
> enforced.
>
> I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
> else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
> shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
> for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
> part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
> simply need to pay dues.
>
> I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
> V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
> Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
> Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
> (www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
>
> Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
> provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
> that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
> thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
> the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
> and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
>
> I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
> Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
> I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
> as well.
>
> The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
> of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
> The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
> PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
> and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
> interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
> willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
> PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
> AzVJC's anyhow.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> > The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
44348 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:14pm
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs
It takes more than money to help our sport.
-----Original Message-----
From: David R. W. Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:09 PM
To: 'az_jeeper_mike'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
If you want to help out, give your money to those organized clubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the AzVJC
as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club. The AzVJC
will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as they please,
there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules, just as it is now.
However, members of the AzVJC will have the OPTION to join the 2nd club
and the only requirement that is different is that they will need to pay
dues; in addition, the other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep)
will simply be enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything else.
However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a shadow
of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing for both the
individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be part of the
AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you simply need to pay
dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the V
stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name. Any
other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona Jeep
Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree that
the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a thing, those
that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join the shadow club.
All we need is enough interest to see it through and enough initial
members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated Club"
in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to. I
suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers as
well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members of
the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club." The
idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via PayPal
and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write and mail,
just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't interest
anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be willing to
let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via PayPal? Since the
Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44349 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
Hi David,
I thought you were going away for awhile... What happened?
How about not telling me how to spend my money... If I want to spend it on AzVJC for a membership club I should be able to. I want to contribute to this club in that way.
If you don't want to participate then don't. Continue to be a member in the form you are now. Still sounds like everyone is welcome. Even You
Do you think it devalues your membership because there are those who are willing to contribute monetarily to the club and those who aren't?
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: David R. W. Withers
To: 'az_jeeper_mike' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
If you want to help out, give your money to those organized clubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the AzVJC
as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club. The AzVJC
will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as they please,
there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules, just as it is now.
However, members of the AzVJC will have the OPTION to join the 2nd club
and the only requirement that is different is that they will need to pay
dues; in addition, the other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep)
will simply be enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything else.
However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a shadow
of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing for both the
individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be part of the
AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you simply need to pay
dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the V
stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name. Any
other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona Jeep
Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree that
the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a thing, those
that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join the shadow club.
All we need is enough interest to see it through and enough initial
members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated Club"
in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to. I
suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers as
well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members of
the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club." The
idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via PayPal
and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write and mail,
just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't interest
anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be willing to
let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via PayPal? Since the
Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44350 From: Joe Kearney <joe@j...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:30pm
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs
Mike,
I still think it is a good idea because we all can, if we choose, have the best of both worlds.
If someone chooses not o participate then it would be just like the club was before, no problem.
Flame Suit Turned on J
Joe Kearney
Joe@JRKearney.com
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
simply need to pay dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
as well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44351 From: Mark Mesalam <m_mesalam@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:26pm
Subject: RE: New poll for az_vjc
Before I would be able to decide I would need to know what would be the
benefit of Incorporating.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:33 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] New poll for az_vjc
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
az_vjc group:
Would you be interested in Joining an
Arizona Virtual Jeep Club Incorporated?
o Yes
o Maybe
o No
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44352 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
And I appreciate your contribution David....
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: David R. W. Withers
To: 'az_jeeper_mike' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
It takes more than money to help our sport.
-----Original Message-----
From: David R. W. Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:09 PM
To: 'az_jeeper_mike'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
If you want to help out, give your money to those organized clubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the AzVJC
as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club. The AzVJC
will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as they please,
there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules, just as it is now.
However, members of the AzVJC will have the OPTION to join the 2nd club
and the only requirement that is different is that they will need to pay
dues; in addition, the other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep)
will simply be enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything else.
However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a shadow
of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing for both the
individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be part of the
AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you simply need to pay
dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the V
stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name. Any
other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona Jeep
Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree that
the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a thing, those
that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join the shadow club.
All we need is enough interest to see it through and enough initial
members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated Club"
in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to. I
suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers as
well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members of
the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club." The
idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via PayPal
and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write and mail,
just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't interest
anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be willing to
let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via PayPal? Since the
Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44353 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
Hey!
No fair on the flame suit Joe!
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Kearney
To: az_jeeper_mike ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Mike,
I still think it is a good idea because we all can, if we choose, have the best of both worlds.
If someone chooses not o participate then it would be just like the club was before, no problem.
Flame Suit Turned on J
Joe Kearney
Joe@JRKearney.com
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
simply need to pay dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
as well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44354 From: jeepfanatic97 <itsajeepthing@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:32pm
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
I don't see what the problem with being INC. is? Sounds like the
price of dues will cover what you would have spent any ways on
Permits and a membership to asa4wdc, so can someone explain to me
what the worst that would come out of this??
Man I'm a bad lurker two post in one day!!!
Rob Brooks
97 TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe Kearney" <joe@j...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I still think it is a good idea because we all can, if we choose,
have
> the best of both worlds.
> If someone chooses not o participate then it would be just like the
club
> was before, no problem.
>
> Flame Suit Turned on :-)
>
>
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe@J...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
>
> Joe,
>
> I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
> AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
> The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
> they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
> just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
> OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
> different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
> other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
> enforced.
>
> I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
> else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is
a
> shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
> for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to
be
> part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
> simply need to pay dues.
>
> I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though
the
> V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
> Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep
Club", "Arizona
> Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
> (www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
>
> Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort
to
> provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
> that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
> thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
> the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
> and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
>
> I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
> Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong
to.
> I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-
Rangers
> as well.
>
> The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
> of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized
club."
> The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
> PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to
write
> and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
> interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps
be
> willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
> PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
> AzVJC's anyhow.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> > The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44355 From: az_jeeper_mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:50pm
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
If there appears to be enough interest, I'll set something up.
The poll will end after one Week (on March 7th) we'll see what the
interest is then.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Will there be a signup sheet for those interested who would
participate? There are probably a lot of people out here like me who
would buy into this. If there is a signup area will it be made public
so we can see who does want to participate? There are probably a lot
of conventional thinkers who are just lurking that may sign up.
>
> ~B~
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: az_jeeper_mike
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:52 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
>
>
> Joe,
>
> I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
> AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow
club.
> The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
> they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
> just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
> OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
> different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
> other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
> enforced.
>
> I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
> else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that
is a
> shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good
thing
> for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to
be
> part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
> simply need to pay dues.
>
> I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though
the
> V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same
name.
> Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep
Club", "Arizona
> Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new
website
> (www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
>
> Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort
to
> provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I
disagree
> that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
> thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to
join
> the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it
through
> and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
>
> I could even add a field to the Member Profiles
called "Affiliated
> Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong
to.
> I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-
Rangers
> as well.
>
> The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for
members
> of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized
club."
> The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues
via
> PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to
write
> and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club
doesn't
> interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers
perhaps be
> willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
> PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
> AzVJC's anyhow.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> > The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44356 From: jeepthang87yj <jeep_thang@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
Oh come on as if there isn't enough clubs that want your money
already, and have little requirements you need to stay in the club,
and besides it's really stupid to pay money just to watch people talk
on the net.
Not me I'll vote against it.
Sincerely: JEEP THANG
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Organization is in the air again.... and I suspect that once again,
it shall
> be shot down completely.
>
> There are enough organized clubs to join here in the valley if
people want
> to join. The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer, and
we
> already have a Webmaster who is doing a fantastic job <grin>.
>
> The only way that this group will become an organized entity is if
you can
> get every single member to vote for organization... and I hate to
tell you
> this; but I'll never vote for it...put it to a vote and watch how
badly it
> gets shot down.
>
> If people want to belong to an organized group, go off and start
your own
> organized group. Call it the Arizona Jeep Club or the Arizona
Axlebreakers
> or whatever... but I suggest that people not get their hopes up to
high for
> the AZVJC to EVER become organized.
>
> Ta-Ta till next year's organizational pleas start anew...
>
>
> Joe West
>
> Long live Anarchy!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:Mike@A...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:29 AM
> To: 'az_vjc@y...'
> Subject: [az_vjc] Organized Clubs
>
>
> To all of those that already belong to an organized club, you may
now
> delete this message (or continue reading if you're curious).
>
> For everyone here that is interested:
>
> I talked to Sandee McCullen at the cleanup in January and have
been trying
> to figure out a way to bring this up to the group. Well it looks
like this
> may be the perfect time with all that has happened in the past day
or so.
>
> We can make the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club an incorporated club
and become
> a member club of the Arizona State Association of 4WD Clubs WITHOUT
> organizing (at least not any more than we already have). Sandee
said that we
> need three "officers" and bylaws, we don't have to have membership
> requirements, elections, "official" club runs. All the bylaws have
to say
> is who the officers are, how new members join, and when we have
meetings
> (even if it is never).
>
> Here is the way it would work. As it is now, anyone can join the
AzVJC
> via the website and post messages to the group, this WILL NOT
change. What
> changes is, once someone has joined the AzVJC and gone on one run
(so we can
> verify that they live in Arizona and HAVE a JEEP) then they can
join the
> Arizona Virtual Jeep Club Incorporated (AzVJC Inc). All they have
to do is
> pay their dues for the year. If they want to drop out of the AzVJC
Inc then
> they just don't pay the dues; it doesn't mean that they will be
dropped from
> the website or mailing list. Nothing else changes... all we're
doing is
> adding another option for our members.
>
> Here is what I'm thinking for the incorporation:
>
> For the three officers:
>
> President - Responsible for turning in New Membership Information
to
> ASA4WDC, attend ASA4WDC meetings. (I nominate DougB if he's
interested)
> Treasurer - Responsible for collecting money from members and
paying
> ASA4WDC and Az State. (I nominate Jon Loveless, if he's interested,
since he
> already does alot with stickers, etc...)
> Webmaster - Responsible for maintaining the website and e-mail
list.
>
> How to become a New Member: 1. Join the AzVJC 2. Go on a run
with the
> AzVJC (with at least one member of the AzVJC Inc present) 3. Pay
Dues.
> That's it.
>
> How to become a Non Member: 1. Don't pay your dues.
>
> Meetings and Elections: None. If a club officer steps down,
he/she
> chooses the replacement.
>
> Dues: I am thinking since Az State has decided that clubs are
only
> allowed 2 runs per month that we just include an individual permit
in the
> cost of the dues for the year. This way members of the AzVJC Inc
are double
> covered and they won't have to remember to get one every year (like
me).
> Also included in the cost of dues would be ASA4WDC membership.
Because of
> the incorporation, we'll likely have to start paying for the
webspace (which
> we currently get for free) which is $21.25/month. We could also
include
> things like paying to get rid of advertisements on Yahoo Groups,
extra
> stickers to hand out at events, flyers, banners, etc... I estimate
roughly
> $40/year which is right in line with most clubs.
>
> The benefits are: 1. The AzVJC will be covered by the ASA4WDC
million
> dollar insurance. 2. ASA4WDC and united will get more money to
fight the
> eco-nazis. 3. The AzVJC will finally be recognized as the largest
club at
> the ASA4WDC Jamboree :) 4. I'm sure there's more but my mind is
drawing a
> blank.
>
> The downside is: 1. Paying Dues. 2. There are no other
downsides, other
> than paying dues, nothing changes, and you only have to pay dues if
you want
> to (you just remain a member of AzVJC but not AzVJC Inc).
>
> Does this make sense? I'll post a poll to find out how many may
be
> interested. The initial start up costs will depend on the number
of people
> starting the AzVJC Inc as incorporation can initially be expensive
($500?)
> ALSO, if anyone has been through the incorporation process before,
we could
> use your assistance.
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Mike
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
44357 From: Neal Han**** <azredrocker@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
Bob, there are many of us that are extreme rock crawlers that know the issues and fight for our rights. I personally invite you and anyone else to come out to the old Jamboree site this weekend to have dinner and a camp out and some intelligent conversations about 4 wheeling and where its going in this state. :)
Neal Han****, 74cj5 rock crawler
rlpeckii wrote:
Well, I've read most of the recent posts regarding destroying trails
and the need to belong to an organized club to help keep the trails
open. I just can't keep it in any longer . . . .:-)
I have been wheelin for over 40 years and for the past 4 years here in
Arizona. We have some of the best, and most accessable, trails I have
ever seen, and I have wheeled in California, Alaska, Colorado, Utah,
Nevada, and of course in Arizona.
Recently I attended an AZVJC run out to Box Canyon and Martinez
Canyon. For me, this was the best wheelin yet. I found the members
to be friendly, helpful, knowledgeable, and very concerned about the
environment. I was proud to be wheelin with these folks . . .
Unfortunately, there were other folks out on this trail too. One in
particular was a well built "crawler" (looked like a modified Blazer
without the body), who took it upon himself to go off the trails and
run over bushes and trees to get by the slower vehicles. We also
encountered a group of trucks that were drinking heavily (the drivers
where actucally the ones that were doing the drinking) and pretty much
tore up their vehicles and the trail. In addition, we encountered a
lone pick-up truck that couldn't even make it up Box Canyon without
being strapped up.
I guess my point is that it is not the true "Jeepers" that we have
worry about, it is these sudo Baja Racers and Rock Crawlers that don't
read these posts (that would be assuming that they could read), they
don't even know that lands are being closed, much less they probably
don't care. Just look at what has happened to Sycamore Creek.
Everytime I venture out there, I am amazed that it is still open.
I have not seen any evidence that the members of AZVJC ever knowingly
damage the trails or the environment. While a few may be slightly
outspoken (grin). They do a lot for our sport/hobby and I only wish I
had more time and resources to contribute.
I had a few extra cents, so there they are . . .
Keep on wheelin,
Bob
74 CJ-5
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44358 From: az_jeeper_mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
This is exactly what I mean. IF you want to participate then do so
(pay your dues, get the ASA4WDC membership, United Membership, and
Land Use Permit), IF you do not want to participate then don't (no
different than what you have now)
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe Kearney" <joe@j...> wrote:
> If someone chooses not o participate then it would be just like the
> club was before, no problem.
44359 From: Neal Han**** <azredrocker@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:54pm
Subject: RE: (no subject)
NO!!!!
"T.J. Nosmo-King" wrote:
can you get BUTT HURT with BUNCHED PANTIES???
TJ Gill
75 CJ5
327/TH350
Ocotillo West Landscaping
480.325.5401
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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44335 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:59am
Subject: RE: "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
Bob,
Very well said indeed! I have participated at land use meetings and at a
BLM open forum, I addressed the land management individuals and said
basically the very same thing (except for the part that I've bene wheelin'
for 40 years.....man, you are SOOOO old!) (just kidding!)
Again, very nicely stated!
Timber Chucker!
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: rlpeckii [mailto:rlpii@q...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:31 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
Well, I've read most of the recent posts regarding destroying trails
and the need to belong to an organized club to help keep the trails
open. I just can't keep it in any longer . . . .:-)
I have been wheelin for over 40 years and for the past 4 years here in
Arizona. We have some of the best, and most accessable, trails I have
ever seen, and I have wheeled in California, Alaska, Colorado, Utah,
Nevada, and of course in Arizona.
Recently I attended an AZVJC run out to Box Canyon and Martinez
Canyon. For me, this was the best wheelin yet. I found the members
to be friendly, helpful, knowledgeable, and very concerned about the
environment. I was proud to be wheelin with these folks . . .
Unfortunately, there were other folks out on this trail too. One in
particular was a well built "crawler" (looked like a modified Blazer
without the body), who took it upon himself to go off the trails and
run over bushes and trees to get by the slower vehicles. We also
encountered a group of trucks that were drinking heavily (the drivers
where actucally the ones that were doing the drinking) and pretty much
tore up their vehicles and the trail. In addition, we encountered a
lone pick-up truck that couldn't even make it up Box Canyon without
being strapped up.
I guess my point is that it is not the true "Jeepers" that we have
worry about, it is these sudo Baja Racers and Rock Crawlers that don't
read these posts (that would be assuming that they could read), they
don't even know that lands are being closed, much less they probably
don't care. Just look at what has happened to Sycamore Creek.
Everytime I venture out there, I am amazed that it is still open.
I have not seen any evidence that the members of AZVJC ever knowingly
damage the trails or the environment. While a few may be slightly
outspoken (grin). They do a lot for our sport/hobby and I only wish I
had more time and resources to contribute.
I had a few extra cents, so there they are . . .
Keep on wheelin,
Bob
74 CJ-5
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
44336 From: <msa12171@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 6:47am
Subject: Fwd: Heritage Funded Wildlife Refuge Center has Open House
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:12:41 -0700
From: "Az Heritage" alert@a...
Subject: Heritage Funded Wildlife Refuge Center has Open House
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Adobe Mountain Wildlife Center Open House
March 2 and 3
I-17 off Pinnacle Peak Road in north Phoenix.
10 a.m. to 3 p.m.
The Arizona Game and Fish Department is planning its annual open house at the Wildlife Center at Adobe Mountain will feature Arizona's native wildlife, wildlife presentations, andhands-on experiences for the entire family.. You can see how big a bald eagle is, visit the Nature Trail and discover the rich diversity of plant life that exists in our desert environment.
Admission is free although a two-dollar donation is suggested. Food, drinks, nature books, t-shirts, and crafts will be available. All proceeds from items sold go directly towards the care of Arizona's sick or injured wildlife, which the are rehabilitated at the Wildlife Center.
The Wildlife Center is a Heritage Funded project. Approximately, 90% of the Arizona Game & Fish Department's non-game budget is derived from Heritage Funds. Come to this event and see one example of how the Heritage Fund* benefits our state.
Directions: Take I-17 north, exit number 217B at Deer Valley Road. Cross Deer Valley Road, continue north one mile on the frontage road to Pinnacle Peak Road. Turn left (west), go on the overpass and then turn right into Adobe Mountain School. Park and follow the crowd or wait for the shuttle. Handicap parking is available. For more information, call (623) 582-9806.
The House has recommended taking $8 million from the Heritage Fund for the 2002 budget. The Senate has at the present time not included taking the money from the Heritage Fund but compromise discussions continue.
44337 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:49am
Subject: [FS] Skyjacker 3" Double Flex Lift
Price: See text
Contact: azxj@hotmail.com
I'm moving up in height and selling off this lift. You will get everthing. UCA's, LCA's, Coils, Track bar, Hydro shocks and disco's. Everything is in great shape, the Colis have not sagged at all and have maintained consistant height both sides. The LCA's have newer generation heim joints since the older ones were noisier. The only think I can come up with that is wrong with this lift is the LCA's have tire rub marks on em. The lift has been on my 97 XJ for 1.5yrs and it is mostly a everyday driver.
The Skyjacker 3" Double Flex kit was $1600 new w/ rear springs when I bought it.
I will sell the above listed for $600. I also have the rear springs but the passenger said spring has sagged about 1/2".
I will sell the pair with Hydro's for $100.
You could either try to get it re-arched or just put the lesser spring on the drivers side and they will even out in the near future (because there is more torque applied to the passenger side).
Local interests get buying priority. If no locals respond then I will accept emails in order of receipt: azxj@hotmail.com
Chad Mitchell
44338 From: Mike Hoyt <mike@v...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:50am
Subject: Re: Magazine Subscription at Expo
Ditto!
----- Original Message -----
From: rioshilo@aol.com
To: niitoyis@worldnet.att.net ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Magazine Subscription at Expo
Same here Gary, I'm still waiting for my magazine to come. Didn't they say we would get the March edition in the middle of February??
Rio
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44339 From: <rlpii@q...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:52am
Subject: Re: "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
Thanks T/C :-)
I'm not rrreeeaaallly that old, drove my first Jeep (my dad's CJ-2A) when I
was only 10.
But, some days I feel . . . . .
Thanks again,
Bob
74 CJ-5
Stu Olson wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Very well said indeed! I have participated at land use meetings and at a
> BLM open forum, I addressed the land management individuals and said
> basically the very same thing (except for the part that I've bene wheelin'
> for 40 years.....man, you are SOOOO old!) (just kidding!)
>
> Again, very nicely stated!
>
> Timber Chucker!
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rlpeckii [mailto:rlpii@q...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:31 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
>
> Well, I've read most of the recent posts regarding destroying trails
> and the need to belong to an organized club to help keep the trails
> open. I just can't keep it in any longer . . . .:-)
>
> I have been wheelin for over 40 years and for the past 4 years here in
> Arizona. We have some of the best, and most accessable, trails I have
> ever seen, and I have wheeled in California, Alaska, Colorado, Utah,
> Nevada, and of course in Arizona.
>
> Recently I attended an AZVJC run out to Box Canyon and Martinez
> Canyon. For me, this was the best wheelin yet. I found the members
> to be friendly, helpful, knowledgeable, and very concerned about the
> environment. I was proud to be wheelin with these folks . . .
>
> Unfortunately, there were other folks out on this trail too. One in
> particular was a well built "crawler" (looked like a modified Blazer
> without the body), who took it upon himself to go off the trails and
> run over bushes and trees to get by the slower vehicles. We also
> encountered a group of trucks that were drinking heavily (the drivers
> where actucally the ones that were doing the drinking) and pretty much
> tore up their vehicles and the trail. In addition, we encountered a
> lone pick-up truck that couldn't even make it up Box Canyon without
> being strapped up.
>
> I guess my point is that it is not the true "Jeepers" that we have
> worry about, it is these sudo Baja Racers and Rock Crawlers that don't
> read these posts (that would be assuming that they could read), they
> don't even know that lands are being closed, much less they probably
> don't care. Just look at what has happened to Sycamore Creek.
> Everytime I venture out there, I am amazed that it is still open.
>
> I have not seen any evidence that the members of AZVJC ever knowingly
> damage the trails or the environment. While a few may be slightly
> outspoken (grin). They do a lot for our sport/hobby and I only wish I
> had more time and resources to contribute.
>
> I had a few extra cents, so there they are . . .
>
> Keep on wheelin,
> Bob
> 74 CJ-5
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44340 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:52am
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
simply need to pay dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
as well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
44341 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:56am
Subject: RE: Organized Clubs
Looks like my stickers are coming off!!!
Leave it alone. If I want to give money to dues, I'll give it to the ASA4wdc.
let me know when this happens so I may remove myself form the e-mail list
Sincerely
David R. W. Withers
-----Original Message-----
From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:Mike@AzChatfield.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:29 AM
To: 'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] Organized Clubs
To all of those that already belong to an organized club, you may now delete this message (or continue reading if you're curious).
For everyone here that is interested:
I talked to Sandee McCullen at the cleanup in January and have been trying to figure out a way to bring this up to the group. Well it looks like this may be the perfect time with all that has happened in the past day or so.
We can make the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club an incorporated club and become a member club of the Arizona State Association of 4WD Clubs WITHOUT organizing (at least not any more than we already have). Sandee said that we need three "officers" and bylaws, we don't have to have membership requirements, elections, "official" club runs. All the bylaws have to say is who the officers are, how new members join, and when we have meetings (even if it is never).
Here is the way it would work. As it is now, anyone can join the AzVJC via the website and post messages to the group, this WILL NOT change. What changes is, once someone has joined the AzVJC and gone on one run (so we can verify that they live in Arizona and HAVE a JEEP) then they can join the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club Incorporated (AzVJC Inc). All they have to do is pay their dues for the year. If they want to drop out of the AzVJC Inc then they just don't pay the dues; it doesn't mean that they will be dropped from the website or mailing list. Nothing else changes... all we're doing is adding another option for our members.
Here is what I'm thinking for the incorporation:
For the three officers:
President - Responsible for turning in New Membership Information to ASA4WDC, attend ASA4WDC meetings. (I nominate DougB if he's interested)
Treasurer - Responsible for collecting money from members and paying ASA4WDC and Az State. (I nominate Jon Loveless, if he's interested, since he already does alot with stickers, etc...)
Webmaster - Responsible for maintaining the website and e-mail list.
How to become a New Member: 1. Join the AzVJC 2. Go on a run with the AzVJC (with at least one member of the AzVJC Inc present) 3. Pay Dues. That's it.
How to become a Non Member: 1. Don't pay your dues.
Meetings and Elections: None. If a club officer steps down, he/she chooses the replacement.
Dues: I am thinking since Az State has decided that clubs are only allowed 2 runs per month that we just include an individual permit in the cost of the dues for the year. This way members of the AzVJC Inc are double covered and they won't have to remember to get one every year (like me). Also included in the cost of dues would be ASA4WDC membership. Because of the incorporation, we'll likely have to start paying for the webspace (which we currently get for free) which is $21.25/month. We could also include things like paying to get rid of advertisements on Yahoo Groups, extra stickers to hand out at events, flyers, banners, etc... I estimate roughly $40/year which is right in line with most clubs.
The benefits are: 1. The AzVJC will be covered by the ASA4WDC million dollar insurance. 2. ASA4WDC and united will get more money to fight the eco-nazis. 3. The AzVJC will finally be recognized as the largest club at the ASA4WDC Jamboree :) 4. I'm sure there's more but my mind is drawing a blank.
The downside is: 1. Paying Dues. 2. There are no other downsides, other than paying dues, nothing changes, and you only have to pay dues if you want to (you just remain a member of AzVJC but not AzVJC Inc).
Does this make sense? I'll post a poll to find out how many may be interested. The initial start up costs will depend on the number of people starting the AzVJC Inc as incorporation can initially be expensive ($500?) ALSO, if anyone has been through the incorporation process before, we could use your assistance.
Thanks,
- Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44342 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:03pm
Subject: RE: Re: Thanks (more)
What happened to all the people that jumped down my throat (flamed me)
for wanting to change/add a few things to the club?!!!
Have you already joined another one?
David Withers
-----Original Message-----
From: Jayke Thorpe [mailto:jeepboy_3@y...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:54 AM
To: Ross Skinner; AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
I think the AZVJC is great!
--- Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...> wrote:
> After hearing some of the LIMITATIONS being placed
> upon the clubs by the
> State and I am sure the Feds are not far behind...I
> am alarmed...who in the
> hell rolled over and let themselves be boxed in like
> that. You are not
> using state lands for profit...where is there an
> ordinance allowing them
> that kind of control?
>
> If you don't think this is not a methodical effort
> to get your access
> ultimately removed or severely limited ...lets say
> one run a quarter..I have
> a bridge to sell you.
>
> Yes, clubs can be fun and can focus activism to
> better influence
> bureaucrats, but, it is looking like the usual
> closed cliques (you know,
> care more, know more, better, smarter and so on) are
> forming and are doing
> things that may not be in the best interest of our
> use of our lands. Again,
> I am not sure of this but it seems to be a
> consistent outcome of groups like
> this.
>
> Now it is our responsibility as independents to do
> things and say things
> that represent a broader reality of our desires then
> what some small
> cliquish clubs think.
>
> This has been an interesting discussion.
>
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clay Forrester [mailto:allvol@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:07 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; akamofoe
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
>
>
> What will end up happing is that your land (private
> property) would be the
> last to go.....that's all. The rest of the public
> State land and the rest of
> the country would lose theirs. I for one do not want
> to go wheelin' in the
> same area over and over and over................Do
> you? If we lose the
> clubs, we lose it all
>
>
> Clay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "akamofoe" <akamoefo@h...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:17 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
>
>
> > I've been wheel'n for more than 20 years now and
> have never been a
> > member of a club that collects dues. It's always
> been a good group of
> > friends, their friends, etc.. Don't get me wrong,
> I agree that those
> > clubs (or organizations) that are collecting money
> (I mean dues) are
> > using them for good purposes, keeping our lands
> open.
> > But I had an Idea. Why don't we get together and
> start a non-profit
> > organization, collect donations (tax deductible),
> contact a couple of
> > the Big Three Dealers, some Magazines, etc.. With
> all those
> > contributions we could go out and purchase our own
> land and open our
> > own OHV area. Select a couple of area groups to
> head a panel to
> > oversee OUR LANDS.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44343 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
Hi Mike,
Will there be a signup sheet for those interested who would participate? There are probably a lot of people out here like me who would buy into this. If there is a signup area will it be made public so we can see who does want to participate? There are probably a lot of conventional thinkers who are just lurking that may sign up.
~B~
----- Original Message -----
From: az_jeeper_mike
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
simply need to pay dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
as well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44344 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Thanks (more)
Don't worry... We'll hear from them soon enough.
----- Original Message -----
From: David R. W. Withers
To: 'Jayke Thorpe' ; 'Ross Skinner' ; 'AZVJC (E-mail)'
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
What happened to all the people that jumped down my throat (flamed me)
for wanting to change/add a few things to the club?!!!
Have you already joined another one?
David Withers
-----Original Message-----
From: Jayke Thorpe [mailto:jeepboy_3@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:54 AM
To: Ross Skinner; AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
I think the AZVJC is great!
--- Ross Skinner <rskinner@s2bsi.com> wrote:
> After hearing some of the LIMITATIONS being placed
> upon the clubs by the
> State and I am sure the Feds are not far behind...I
> am alarmed...who in the
> hell rolled over and let themselves be boxed in like
> that. You are not
> using state lands for profit...where is there an
> ordinance allowing them
> that kind of control?
>
> If you don't think this is not a methodical effort
> to get your access
> ultimately removed or severely limited ...lets say
> one run a quarter..I have
> a bridge to sell you.
>
> Yes, clubs can be fun and can focus activism to
> better influence
> bureaucrats, but, it is looking like the usual
> closed cliques (you know,
> care more, know more, better, smarter and so on) are
> forming and are doing
> things that may not be in the best interest of our
> use of our lands. Again,
> I am not sure of this but it seems to be a
> consistent outcome of groups like
> this.
>
> Now it is our responsibility as independents to do
> things and say things
> that represent a broader reality of our desires then
> what some small
> cliquish clubs think.
>
> This has been an interesting discussion.
>
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clay Forrester [mailto:allvol@cox.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:07 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; akamofoe
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
>
>
> What will end up happing is that your land (private
> property) would be the
> last to go.....that's all. The rest of the public
> State land and the rest of
> the country would lose theirs. I for one do not want
> to go wheelin' in the
> same area over and over and over................Do
> you? If we lose the
> clubs, we lose it all
>
>
> Clay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "akamofoe" <akamoefo@hotmail.com>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:17 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Thanks (more)
>
>
> > I've been wheel'n for more than 20 years now and
> have never been a
> > member of a club that collects dues. It's always
> been a good group of
> > friends, their friends, etc.. Don't get me wrong,
> I agree that those
> > clubs (or organizations) that are collecting money
> (I mean dues) are
> > using them for good purposes, keeping our lands
> open.
> > But I had an Idea. Why don't we get together and
> start a non-profit
> > organization, collect donations (tax deductible),
> contact a couple of
> > the Big Three Dealers, some Magazines, etc.. With
> all those
> > contributions we could go out and purchase our own
> land and open our
> > own OHV area. Select a couple of area groups to
> head a panel to
> > oversee OUR LANDS.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44345 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:09pm
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs
If you want to help out, give your money to those organized clubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the AzVJC
as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club. The AzVJC
will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as they please,
there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules, just as it is now.
However, members of the AzVJC will have the OPTION to join the 2nd club
and the only requirement that is different is that they will need to pay
dues; in addition, the other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep)
will simply be enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything else.
However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a shadow
of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing for both the
individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be part of the
AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you simply need to pay
dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the V
stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name. Any
other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona Jeep
Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree that
the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a thing, those
that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join the shadow club.
All we need is enough interest to see it through and enough initial
members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated Club"
in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to. I
suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers as
well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members of
the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club." The
idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via PayPal
and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write and mail,
just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't interest
anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be willing to
let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via PayPal? Since the
Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44346 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:13pm
Subject: [FS] TJ 2.5" Rancho Rockcrawler lift (complete)
Price: 400$ OBO
Contact: mikebeach2002@yahoo.com 602-405-4606
4-Rancho RSX Shocks
4-Lower control arms
4-2.5" Springs
1-Track bar relocating bracket.
1-Front track bar
1-Set of Front brake lines
1-Set of rear sway bar extensions
The only thing your gonna need is Swaybar discos.
Im looking to get 400$ and will deliver
E-mail me and let me know if this is too high
Thanks
Mike
Mike Beach
44347 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
I have a intrest I live in Flagstaff, I have a 92YJ 5in ProComp suspenision
with 1in body dana 35 rear 4.56 and dana 30 front tera low warn 9500HS winch
35in ProComp tires new to sport
----- Original Message -----
From: "az_jeeper_mike" <azvjc@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
> Joe,
>
> I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
> AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
> The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
> they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
> just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
> OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
> different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
> other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
> enforced.
>
> I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
> else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
> shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
> for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
> part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
> simply need to pay dues.
>
> I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
> V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
> Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
> Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
> (www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
>
> Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
> provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
> that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
> thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
> the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
> and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
>
> I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
> Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
> I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
> as well.
>
> The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
> of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
> The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
> PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
> and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
> interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
> willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
> PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
> AzVJC's anyhow.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> > The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
44348 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:14pm
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs
It takes more than money to help our sport.
-----Original Message-----
From: David R. W. Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:09 PM
To: 'az_jeeper_mike'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
If you want to help out, give your money to those organized clubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the AzVJC
as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club. The AzVJC
will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as they please,
there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules, just as it is now.
However, members of the AzVJC will have the OPTION to join the 2nd club
and the only requirement that is different is that they will need to pay
dues; in addition, the other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep)
will simply be enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything else.
However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a shadow
of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing for both the
individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be part of the
AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you simply need to pay
dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the V
stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name. Any
other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona Jeep
Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree that
the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a thing, those
that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join the shadow club.
All we need is enough interest to see it through and enough initial
members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated Club"
in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to. I
suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers as
well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members of
the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club." The
idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via PayPal
and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write and mail,
just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't interest
anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be willing to
let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via PayPal? Since the
Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44349 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
Hi David,
I thought you were going away for awhile... What happened?
How about not telling me how to spend my money... If I want to spend it on AzVJC for a membership club I should be able to. I want to contribute to this club in that way.
If you don't want to participate then don't. Continue to be a member in the form you are now. Still sounds like everyone is welcome. Even You
Do you think it devalues your membership because there are those who are willing to contribute monetarily to the club and those who aren't?
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: David R. W. Withers
To: 'az_jeeper_mike' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
If you want to help out, give your money to those organized clubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the AzVJC
as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club. The AzVJC
will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as they please,
there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules, just as it is now.
However, members of the AzVJC will have the OPTION to join the 2nd club
and the only requirement that is different is that they will need to pay
dues; in addition, the other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep)
will simply be enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything else.
However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a shadow
of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing for both the
individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be part of the
AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you simply need to pay
dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the V
stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name. Any
other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona Jeep
Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree that
the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a thing, those
that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join the shadow club.
All we need is enough interest to see it through and enough initial
members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated Club"
in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to. I
suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers as
well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members of
the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club." The
idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via PayPal
and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write and mail,
just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't interest
anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be willing to
let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via PayPal? Since the
Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44350 From: Joe Kearney <joe@j...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:30pm
Subject: RE: Re: Organized Clubs
Mike,
I still think it is a good idea because we all can, if we choose, have the best of both worlds.
If someone chooses not o participate then it would be just like the club was before, no problem.
Flame Suit Turned on J
Joe Kearney
Joe@JRKearney.com
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
simply need to pay dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
as well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44351 From: Mark Mesalam <m_mesalam@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:26pm
Subject: RE: New poll for az_vjc
Before I would be able to decide I would need to know what would be the
benefit of Incorporating.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:33 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] New poll for az_vjc
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
az_vjc group:
Would you be interested in Joining an
Arizona Virtual Jeep Club Incorporated?
o Yes
o Maybe
o No
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44352 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
And I appreciate your contribution David....
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: David R. W. Withers
To: 'az_jeeper_mike' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
It takes more than money to help our sport.
-----Original Message-----
From: David R. W. Withers [mailto:dr_ww@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:09 PM
To: 'az_jeeper_mike'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
If you want to help out, give your money to those organized clubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the AzVJC
as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club. The AzVJC
will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as they please,
there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules, just as it is now.
However, members of the AzVJC will have the OPTION to join the 2nd club
and the only requirement that is different is that they will need to pay
dues; in addition, the other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep)
will simply be enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything else.
However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a shadow
of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing for both the
individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be part of the
AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you simply need to pay
dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the V
stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name. Any
other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona Jeep
Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree that
the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a thing, those
that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join the shadow club.
All we need is enough interest to see it through and enough initial
members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated Club"
in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to. I
suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers as
well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members of
the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club." The
idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via PayPal
and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write and mail,
just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't interest
anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be willing to
let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via PayPal? Since the
Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44353 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: Organized Clubs
Hey!
No fair on the flame suit Joe!
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Kearney
To: az_jeeper_mike ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Mike,
I still think it is a good idea because we all can, if we choose, have the best of both worlds.
If someone chooses not o participate then it would be just like the club was before, no problem.
Flame Suit Turned on J
Joe Kearney
Joe@JRKearney.com
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
Joe,
I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
enforced.
I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is a
shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to be
part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
simply need to pay dues.
I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though the
V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep Club", "Arizona
Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
(www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort to
provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong to.
I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-Rangers
as well.
The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized club."
The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to write
and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps be
willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
AzVJC's anyhow.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" wrote:
> The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
44354 From: jeepfanatic97 <itsajeepthing@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:32pm
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
I don't see what the problem with being INC. is? Sounds like the
price of dues will cover what you would have spent any ways on
Permits and a membership to asa4wdc, so can someone explain to me
what the worst that would come out of this??
Man I'm a bad lurker two post in one day!!!
Rob Brooks
97 TJ
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe Kearney" <joe@j...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I still think it is a good idea because we all can, if we choose,
have
> the best of both worlds.
> If someone chooses not o participate then it would be just like the
club
> was before, no problem.
>
> Flame Suit Turned on :-)
>
>
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe@J...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
>
> Joe,
>
> I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
> AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow club.
> The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
> they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
> just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
> OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
> different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
> other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
> enforced.
>
> I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
> else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that is
a
> shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good thing
> for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to
be
> part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
> simply need to pay dues.
>
> I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though
the
> V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same name.
> Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep
Club", "Arizona
> Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new website
> (www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
>
> Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort
to
> provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I disagree
> that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
> thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to join
> the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it through
> and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
>
> I could even add a field to the Member Profiles called "Affiliated
> Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong
to.
> I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-
Rangers
> as well.
>
> The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for members
> of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized
club."
> The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues via
> PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to
write
> and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club doesn't
> interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers perhaps
be
> willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
> PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
> AzVJC's anyhow.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> > The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44355 From: az_jeeper_mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:50pm
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
If there appears to be enough interest, I'll set something up.
The poll will end after one Week (on March 7th) we'll see what the
interest is then.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Will there be a signup sheet for those interested who would
participate? There are probably a lot of people out here like me who
would buy into this. If there is a signup area will it be made public
so we can see who does want to participate? There are probably a lot
of conventional thinkers who are just lurking that may sign up.
>
> ~B~
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: az_jeeper_mike
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:52 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Organized Clubs
>
>
> Joe,
>
> I think you missed the point here. The idea is not to change the
> AzVJC as it is, but in essence to create a 2nd club, a shadow
club.
> The AzVJC will remain unchanged, people will still come and go as
> they please, there will still be no dues, no elections, no rules,
> just as it is now. However, members of the AzVJC will have the
> OPTION to join the 2nd club and the only requirement that is
> different is that they will need to pay dues; in addition, the
> other "requirements" (ie. live in Az, own a Jeep) will simply be
> enforced.
>
> I agree that the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club does not need anything
> else. However, offering the OPTION of joining a "Real" club that
is a
> shadow of the Az "Virtual" JC, I can only see this as a good
thing
> for both the individuals and our sport in general. Once again to
be
> part of the AzVJC, nothing changes. To join the shadow club, you
> simply need to pay dues.
>
> I thought alot about the name for the 2nd group. And even though
the
> V stands for "Virtual," I really think it should be the same
name.
> Any other name wouldn't fit right "Arizona Real Jeep
Club", "Arizona
> Jeep Club" and besides, then I'd have to create a whole new
website
> (www.AzRJC.org or www.AzJC.org).
>
> Again this isn't an effort to ORGANIZE the AzVJC, it is an effort
to
> provide the membership of the AzVJC another OPTION. And I
disagree
> that the entire AzVJC membership would have to approve of such a
> thing, those that don't approve or don't want to don't have to
join
> the shadow club. All we need is enough interest to see it
through
> and enough initial members to split the costs of incorporation.
>
> I could even add a field to the Member Profiles
called "Affiliated
> Club" in which members could put whatever "real" club they belong
to.
> I suspect that alot of AzVJC members are members of the Az Lo-
Rangers
> as well.
>
> The bottom line here is that I'm trying to make it easy for
members
> of the AzVJC to join and maintain membership of an "organized
club."
> The idea is to provide a webpage where they can pay their dues
via
> PayPal and be done with it. No meetings to attend no check to
write
> and mail, just an online payment. If the AzVJC shadow club
doesn't
> interest anyone, would the membership of the Az LowRangers
perhaps be
> willing to let our members join "On-Line" and pay their dues via
> PayPal? Since the Az-Low Rangers rules are very similiar to the
> AzVJC's anyhow.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> > The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44356 From: jeepthang87yj <jeep_thang@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
Oh come on as if there isn't enough clubs that want your money
already, and have little requirements you need to stay in the club,
and besides it's really stupid to pay money just to watch people talk
on the net.
Not me I'll vote against it.
Sincerely: JEEP THANG
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe W" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Organization is in the air again.... and I suspect that once again,
it shall
> be shot down completely.
>
> There are enough organized clubs to join here in the valley if
people want
> to join. The AZVJC does not need a President, or a Treasurer, and
we
> already have a Webmaster who is doing a fantastic job <grin>.
>
> The only way that this group will become an organized entity is if
you can
> get every single member to vote for organization... and I hate to
tell you
> this; but I'll never vote for it...put it to a vote and watch how
badly it
> gets shot down.
>
> If people want to belong to an organized group, go off and start
your own
> organized group. Call it the Arizona Jeep Club or the Arizona
Axlebreakers
> or whatever... but I suggest that people not get their hopes up to
high for
> the AZVJC to EVER become organized.
>
> Ta-Ta till next year's organizational pleas start anew...
>
>
> Joe West
>
> Long live Anarchy!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:Mike@A...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:29 AM
> To: 'az_vjc@y...'
> Subject: [az_vjc] Organized Clubs
>
>
> To all of those that already belong to an organized club, you may
now
> delete this message (or continue reading if you're curious).
>
> For everyone here that is interested:
>
> I talked to Sandee McCullen at the cleanup in January and have
been trying
> to figure out a way to bring this up to the group. Well it looks
like this
> may be the perfect time with all that has happened in the past day
or so.
>
> We can make the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club an incorporated club
and become
> a member club of the Arizona State Association of 4WD Clubs WITHOUT
> organizing (at least not any more than we already have). Sandee
said that we
> need three "officers" and bylaws, we don't have to have membership
> requirements, elections, "official" club runs. All the bylaws have
to say
> is who the officers are, how new members join, and when we have
meetings
> (even if it is never).
>
> Here is the way it would work. As it is now, anyone can join the
AzVJC
> via the website and post messages to the group, this WILL NOT
change. What
> changes is, once someone has joined the AzVJC and gone on one run
(so we can
> verify that they live in Arizona and HAVE a JEEP) then they can
join the
> Arizona Virtual Jeep Club Incorporated (AzVJC Inc). All they have
to do is
> pay their dues for the year. If they want to drop out of the AzVJC
Inc then
> they just don't pay the dues; it doesn't mean that they will be
dropped from
> the website or mailing list. Nothing else changes... all we're
doing is
> adding another option for our members.
>
> Here is what I'm thinking for the incorporation:
>
> For the three officers:
>
> President - Responsible for turning in New Membership Information
to
> ASA4WDC, attend ASA4WDC meetings. (I nominate DougB if he's
interested)
> Treasurer - Responsible for collecting money from members and
paying
> ASA4WDC and Az State. (I nominate Jon Loveless, if he's interested,
since he
> already does alot with stickers, etc...)
> Webmaster - Responsible for maintaining the website and e-mail
list.
>
> How to become a New Member: 1. Join the AzVJC 2. Go on a run
with the
> AzVJC (with at least one member of the AzVJC Inc present) 3. Pay
Dues.
> That's it.
>
> How to become a Non Member: 1. Don't pay your dues.
>
> Meetings and Elections: None. If a club officer steps down,
he/she
> chooses the replacement.
>
> Dues: I am thinking since Az State has decided that clubs are
only
> allowed 2 runs per month that we just include an individual permit
in the
> cost of the dues for the year. This way members of the AzVJC Inc
are double
> covered and they won't have to remember to get one every year (like
me).
> Also included in the cost of dues would be ASA4WDC membership.
Because of
> the incorporation, we'll likely have to start paying for the
webspace (which
> we currently get for free) which is $21.25/month. We could also
include
> things like paying to get rid of advertisements on Yahoo Groups,
extra
> stickers to hand out at events, flyers, banners, etc... I estimate
roughly
> $40/year which is right in line with most clubs.
>
> The benefits are: 1. The AzVJC will be covered by the ASA4WDC
million
> dollar insurance. 2. ASA4WDC and united will get more money to
fight the
> eco-nazis. 3. The AzVJC will finally be recognized as the largest
club at
> the ASA4WDC Jamboree :) 4. I'm sure there's more but my mind is
drawing a
> blank.
>
> The downside is: 1. Paying Dues. 2. There are no other
downsides, other
> than paying dues, nothing changes, and you only have to pay dues if
you want
> to (you just remain a member of AzVJC but not AzVJC Inc).
>
> Does this make sense? I'll post a poll to find out how many may
be
> interested. The initial start up costs will depend on the number
of people
> starting the AzVJC Inc as incorporation can initially be expensive
($500?)
> ALSO, if anyone has been through the incorporation process before,
we could
> use your assistance.
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Mike
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
44357 From: Neal Han**** <azredrocker@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers" Part II
Bob, there are many of us that are extreme rock crawlers that know the issues and fight for our rights. I personally invite you and anyone else to come out to the old Jamboree site this weekend to have dinner and a camp out and some intelligent conversations about 4 wheeling and where its going in this state. :)
Neal Han****, 74cj5 rock crawler
rlpeckii wrote:
Well, I've read most of the recent posts regarding destroying trails
and the need to belong to an organized club to help keep the trails
open. I just can't keep it in any longer . . . .:-)
I have been wheelin for over 40 years and for the past 4 years here in
Arizona. We have some of the best, and most accessable, trails I have
ever seen, and I have wheeled in California, Alaska, Colorado, Utah,
Nevada, and of course in Arizona.
Recently I attended an AZVJC run out to Box Canyon and Martinez
Canyon. For me, this was the best wheelin yet. I found the members
to be friendly, helpful, knowledgeable, and very concerned about the
environment. I was proud to be wheelin with these folks . . .
Unfortunately, there were other folks out on this trail too. One in
particular was a well built "crawler" (looked like a modified Blazer
without the body), who took it upon himself to go off the trails and
run over bushes and trees to get by the slower vehicles. We also
encountered a group of trucks that were drinking heavily (the drivers
where actucally the ones that were doing the drinking) and pretty much
tore up their vehicles and the trail. In addition, we encountered a
lone pick-up truck that couldn't even make it up Box Canyon without
being strapped up.
I guess my point is that it is not the true "Jeepers" that we have
worry about, it is these sudo Baja Racers and Rock Crawlers that don't
read these posts (that would be assuming that they could read), they
don't even know that lands are being closed, much less they probably
don't care. Just look at what has happened to Sycamore Creek.
Everytime I venture out there, I am amazed that it is still open.
I have not seen any evidence that the members of AZVJC ever knowingly
damage the trails or the environment. While a few may be slightly
outspoken (grin). They do a lot for our sport/hobby and I only wish I
had more time and resources to contribute.
I had a few extra cents, so there they are . . .
Keep on wheelin,
Bob
74 CJ-5
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44358 From: az_jeeper_mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: Organized Clubs
This is exactly what I mean. IF you want to participate then do so
(pay your dues, get the ASA4WDC membership, United Membership, and
Land Use Permit), IF you do not want to participate then don't (no
different than what you have now)
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Joe Kearney" <joe@j...> wrote:
> If someone chooses not o participate then it would be just like the
> club was before, no problem.
44359 From: Neal Han**** <azredrocker@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 0:54pm
Subject: RE: (no subject)
NO!!!!
"T.J. Nosmo-King" wrote:
can you get BUTT HURT with BUNCHED PANTIES???
TJ Gill
75 CJ5
327/TH350
Ocotillo West Landscaping
480.325.5401
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