4.0 swap in a CJ?

[CjCarl]

Has anyone done this swap in a Cj-7? Im figuring ill need new mounts, other than that it would seem like a relatively simple swap (if there is such a thing). I want fuel injection bad, would this be simpler than the conversion? Also, would a newer 4.0 mate up to a T5? Or should i find one with a tranny already on it because the T5 is weak as it is? I just want to have a simple and reliable setup, I dont need gobs of power or anything. Would a truck avenger carb be a better way to go? Will this perform much like EFI? I think im going to address this during the summer, so i want to start gathering some info. I want to be able to run trails like terminator, etc. Just difficult, nothing too crazy. Right now it seems like only my carb is stopping me. Any maybe a little more lift.....well i can think of all kinds of stuff, but this is a start. I appreciate any advice.

[ademster]

The swap is simple...


I did this swap into my 82 Cj-7

it was easy... no new parts needed.... excpet some 4.0s need to use a custom pilot bearing... and a CPS Relocation kit. from Hesco

I didnt need new motor mounts... I had a direct bolt in..... THe engine I used was out of a 89 Xj...

[OlneyJeeps]

with the time/money/pita factor, I would just by something that already has 4.0
dump th T5 (you also would need bellhousing with crank position sensor)... If you really want to do it, swap to a 999 (make sure you get one with cps mount)
just my humble opinion

[CjCarl]

Is it that much of a pain? Youd say just sell my beloved cj? Keep in mind this is not going to be my DD so if it takes all summer thats ok. Its hot as hell anyway. But if i do indeed decide that i MUST have EFI would this be the best way to go?

[CjCarl]

Ademster, if you dont mind me asking, how long and how much $ did it take for you to complete this swap? It doesnt seem like it would cost me that much $ since i could sell my current engine for maybe 400 or more

[OlneyJeeps]

you can (and probably will) get prices all over the board... from couple hundred dollars (had stuff sitting around or came accross (and were able to ID as ) deals of the century) to several thousand dollars. Primary variables: what you have access to ( parts, tools) and what you are capable of ( electronics of efi can drive people crazy ( at least that's my excuse ). I have wheeled with many who have done conversion and had no problems and many who had nothing but problems ( which includes several who spent in excess of 10k ).

IMHO unless you have the patience, prowess and potential financing to tackle the inherent complications, save your money and sanity and leave it to the manufacturers (conversions done RIGHT are SELDOM cheap).

[ademster]

Well I got the COmplete Xj for 150 bucks... RUnning... but the left front fender was crunched in radiator damaged. etc. it was in a fender bender..

well so the engine basically cost me 150 bucks.. which I also took the wiring harness and computer...

300 for the Hesko CPS conversion kit. ( so I didnt have to buy a new bell housing or hack my T-4 Bell housing

I got a complete engine reseal kit. ( oilpan, valve cover, intake, exhast, remain seal. I think it was aroun 50 bucks... but I got it for free through my shop..

Oil, oil filter, spark plugs, cap and rotor, and new pilot bushing... depending on year 4.0L you will need a custom bushing Advance adapter makes them. and sale between 10-20 bucks...
Luckily for me,... THe 258 Stock bushing worked perfect for the 89 4.0 I have

And about 6 hours of removing old engine and installing new engine

and about 2-3 hours of wiring ( all electrical for the engine. )

mind You I am not done with the wiring... yes I drive it everyday. but I didnt make it pretty as I should have... I am going to be cutting out 12 inches of wiring in the middle of the harness to shorten it up... that in it self will take hours to do... one wire at a time ad about 80 wres hahaha

I recomend using a RENIX 4.0.... easiest swap and no compications.


like Onlyjeeps said
there are so may variables... it all depends on how far you want to go wth the swap...

[rockwerks]

find an older xj for cheap and take the whole drive train, and harnesses. you will love the aw4 auto

[OlneyJeeps]

I didnt say it couldn't be done, but good running late 80's anything (expecially for $150) are not on every street corner (then again, I did sell a complete drivetrain for about $700 with harness:eek: wish I had it back now).... you expect to get $400 for your old carbed 258, and (in the same breath) exect to spend less on a newer, good condition, injected 4.0????

do you have the space/equipment /ability/time to disassmeble an XJ? do you think you will stumble on such a deal (soon)? Can you afford it if you finally get it started to hear a nasty knock (worn wrist pin or something you couldnt see externally)?

[CjCarl]

Well i certainly dont have room for some old broke xj to hang around....but i also didnt plan on getting the 4.0 for 150$, i was thinking more like 800-1000. However, ademster did bring up some costs i hadnt thought about ( like the CPS relocation, etc.) Im thinking maybe since my 258 is in good shape (only about 5-6K on it) i should just settle for an off-road tuned carb. That seems like it will be simpler in the long run. Maybe a truck avenger? Im just not sure how well these things work? I dont expect them to work as well as EFI, but im hoping theyre at least close to make them worth the $. Has anyone got any experience with these carbs? Thanks for the info adem and olney!

[CaptainMorgan]

My buddy has a Bronco with a Truck Avenger and it works GREAT. It seems like it takes an awful lot more angle to bog out than my old ford 2bbl did, which is supposed to be a good off road carb for the olden days. I would say that is an awesome choice for the miles on your engine. You could even throw a header adn stuff on and free up a few ponies with the carb. Save up while you wear out this one and put in a Vortech350 or something WAY down the road. I mean if you're gonna swap it you might as well make it interesting.

[CaptainMorgan]

To add to what I said above, the Bronco is one of those big ones, angles might get more extreme quick with the T.A. on a Cj. I just dont know?

[OlneyJeeps]

from what I've heard, Motocraft 2bbl (from Waggy) is great carb for 258 ( crappy gutless pos for a 360 though); there have been several threads about this

[UNSTUCK]

A Truck Avenger carb? Do they make one in the 300cfm range? Last thing you want is some monster 750 carb on that little engine. I first swapped out to MC 2150 carb. TONS better! Though I think it wasn't tuned right because I had a hard time starting it after stalling on a waterfall or the like.
On another note, my 350 TPI is almost ready! I'm very happy so far with it, but I have learned that swaps will nickle and dime you to death!

[ecp3031]

I've got throw in my two cents for the Howell fuel injection conversion. Yeah I know its $1200, but it starts first time every time- even after sitting a month, runs, passes emissions and was installed by a guy who sometimes cant find the right end of a screwdriver- me. If you have a low mileage engine as you say, why dump it? My conversion was done at 133000 miles with no problems.

[Last_Renegade]

Well heres another idea, how about using a 4.0 HO head w/ FI set up on your 4.2 motor....I think i'm going to hit the pick and pull and look for an upper end to get and swap on. heres some links........

http://www.geocities.com/035jeep/40L.html
http://www.cjoffroad.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=24

Let me know what your plans are.........

[Triple-XJ]

The trick is, FIND A GOOD DONER and a FSM.
A complete doner will save you from being nickled & dimed to death, a FSM for the doner will keep you from pulling your hair out.

Olney Jeeps is correct. Typicaly, this swap WILL COST some dough.
Take rockwerks advice if you want a slush box tranny, although the AW-4 from the XJ is electronic, its a NICE trans.

Search 4.0 swap in the link I attached, ALL the info you will EVER need is there. http://cjoffroad.com/forums/default.asp?CAT_ID=5

Look for a Bulkhead pin-out for your CJ, and you may have to join All Data DIY (http://www.alldata.com/products/diy/index.html) for the doner FSM.

Good luck,
Geno

[rockwerks]

I might have access to a complete xj 87 or 88 that has front end damage, if so the entire drive train with wiring would be about 600.00 pulled engine, trans, ecu and tcu's, I will know better in a week or so

[ecp3031]

Something that hasn't been mentioned - the cost of fabbing a skid plate, transmission mounts, adaptor for transfer case ( I assume you have a Dana 300 and want to keep it), new drive shafts. All things a friend of mine had to do when swapping in a 4.0 into his 85 CJ7. Got a whole jeep for $600 ( of course had to go to California to get it). Swap was pretty involved even for the professional mechanic (friend) he had do the work.

[ademster]

Something that hasn't been mentioned - the cost of fabbing a skid plate, transmission mounts, adaptor for transfer case ( I assume you have a Dana 300 and want to keep it), new drive shafts. All things a friend of mine had to do when swapping in a 4.0 into his 85 CJ7. Got a whole jeep for $600 ( of course had to go to California to get it). Swap was pretty involved even for the professional mechanic (friend) he had do the work.

I dont know what your talking about....

THe 4.0 will bolt right up to the existing tranny and tcase...

unless he ( your friend ) used the entire drive train then ya some mods will have to be done.

[CjCarl]

As i do more research, i have discovered yet another option, Propane. Since i wont be driving it on the streets i dont care about emissions legality, and from what i can understand its an easier conversion than EFI. Theres a local company that does them, and they seem to think it will cure all carb problems. Im sure its not as easy as they claim, but the concept seems simpler than the EFI conversion.

[ThumpAZ]

I've done both... Swap of multiple and various engines into CJ's (many include the venerable 4.0 HO and later as well as the really good candidate 4.3 Chevy). I also did my own TBI changeover with the Howell kit in my garage, over the course of one weekend.
Everything you need for the TBI kit comes in one nice and tidy package, and the support you gain access to is immeasurable should you get into a bind.
I spent more time taking wires OUT of the Jeep and making sure I ran things clean than I did installing the kit!
All in all, it took me about 8 hours of actual work.
You'll need:
$1000 or so for the kit (so well worth it)
Access to a welder to weld in the O2 sensor bung
wire strippers
soldering iron (NEVER just crimp or :eek: wire nut: ECM and sensor wires)
solder (preferrably silver-bearing... I'm particular)
Something to cut gas line, preferrably tubing cutter (for install of electric fuel pump... included in kit)
Zip ties
Wire loom (oddly, not included)
Working Ported Vacuum Switch (find one on a junk yard rig)
A few feet of small vac line (1/8" and 1/4")
Hose clamps
Some good fuel line (even though the kit comes with some)
If you're running, or plan to run, a header you just tell them initially and they'll send a 4-wire O2 sensor instead of the normal one. Make sure to check the wiring of this. If it's colors don't match, then you'll fry the O2 sensor and have to wait for tem to send you a new one (they warrantied mine without problem, and I'm sure it wasn an anomally).

So... my vote actually goes to the TBI kit. Since you've got a relatively fresh engine already... and will NEVER get what you expect for it, sd to say. Oh, and do dump the T-5. Mine blew thanks to a burn out LOL. Plopped in a GM 700-R4 and have loved it, but it's a snarky and picky tranny that requires proper adjustments or you'll fry it.

EDIT:
Just read your post about Propane... Got Propane over there is a great guy (this is who you were talking to, right?) and his kits and knowledge are just as good as the Howell. As you stated, you will no longer be able to register it for street use after that conversion... ever. Keep that in mind as you make the decision. As well, you'll lose fuel mileage with these kits. They're not like the one's designed for street vehicles that will retain or even increase mileage. But they WON'T lose HP, like many may try to tell you. He's gone through a lot of research to make sure of that.

[CjCarl]

Thanks for a lot of good info Thump! I was talking about the Got Propane guy, i think the shop is in Tempe. Anyway, im kinda of leaning toward propane. Once i get out of school for the summer and move back to phx i will go and meet with him. If the kit is as simple and straightforward as the the site claims, then i think that will be the way to go. Ive got a couple months to decide yet, but this is all good info that i am gathering from everyone, and im sure it will be valuable. Thanks