Yahoo Messages:

[blooddrive]

44135-44159

44135 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:46pm
Subject: [TR] Rock Unstacking L. Terminator


Ok everyone,

I just posted a rock unstacking/clean up run for Lower Terminator on March 16th.

Now is your chance to quit bellyaching and do something about it. The idea here is to remove the large rocks that will trap sand during the monsoon rains thereby ruining the trail.

I am hoping that someone else (that lives on the east side perhaps?) to lead a run to clean up another trail in March (doesn't have to be the same weekend)

With the number of active wheelers in this group we should have no problem coming up with two separate groups to clean up one trail (each group) per month. Anyone want to step forward to lead the other group?

Perhaps we could find someway to make this a competition???

Either way, if you don't join one group or the other, you forfeit your right to bellyache, moan, groan or complain about the rockstacking on our trails.

- Mike



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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44136 From: Robert McNeeley <robert.mcneeley@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:49pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


The part about one permit to cover the group is true. I don't think you need
a permit to run it. I have been running the trail for 3 years and have never
needed one. BUT... I would hate for you to get busted. The permit is $15. I
think.
Fat Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
To: macunasprint@e...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002



Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read that
as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
group. Any truth to this??

Ben





AzVJC Website

<azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
<az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
org> cc:

Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke
Ovens - Saturday,
02/26/2002 March 9, 2002

11:34 PM

Please

respond to

macunasprint







Hello All,


Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.

When: Saturday March 9, 2002
Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-6 hours
CB Channel: 4

We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.

We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty

sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone

signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like

to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time

we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.

The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some
rocks and ledges in the road.



Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the
nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which
is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then
more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.



Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one
point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of
tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see
the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.



At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They
are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
spectacular.



Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an
exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway



This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a
challenge to the novice or stock driver.



Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!

Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List


Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.










Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


44137 From: Robert McNeeley <robert.mcneeley@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:54pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Rock Unstacking L. Terminator


I should be free to help.
Fat Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:Mike@AzChatfield.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:47 PM
To: 'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Rock Unstacking L. Terminator


Ok everyone,

I just posted a rock unstacking/clean up run for Lower Terminator on March 16th.

Now is your chance to quit bellyaching and do something about it. The idea here is to remove the large rocks that will trap sand during the monsoon rains thereby ruining the trail.

I am hoping that someone else (that lives on the east side perhaps?) to lead a run to clean up another trail in March (doesn't have to be the same weekend)

With the number of active wheelers in this group we should have no problem coming up with two separate groups to clean up one trail (each group) per month. Anyone want to step forward to lead the other group?

Perhaps we could find someway to make this a competition???

Either way, if you don't join one group or the other, you forfeit your right to bellyache, moan, groan or complain about the rockstacking on our trails.

- Mike

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



44138 From: Gregory Merica <warm_arizona@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 0:32pm
Subject: RE: death wobble -- help?


Might also want to check the idler arm bushing (not
pitman) if so equipped (GM uses this, but I'm not sure
about your model).

Anyway, jack up one side, climb underneath, and
carefully give the wheel a little nudge with your foot
while watching all the connections. Nothing should
move. If it does, look for whatever is not moving in
it's "natural" line.

Greg
stock 90YJ a.k.a. Winch Anchor

--- DesertJeep <joey@d...> wrote:
> sounds like something is wearing out up front.
> Double check the play in the
> ball joints and connections.
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
> www.desertjeep.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: darrenr@m...
> [mailto:darrenr@m...]On Behalf
> Of Darren Richards
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:21 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] death wobble -- help?
>
>
> I have a completely stock 95 GMC 4x4 Sierra half ton
> pickup that I use
> as my tow vehicle. It has been slowly developing a
> case of death
> wobble. It seems to happen between about 40-50 mph,
> and usually occurs
> when I go over a bump or a pothole or something.
> It's not too serious,
> but it seems to be getting a bit worse. I talked to
> someone at Sun
> Devil Auto (since they are right here next door to
> where I work), and
> they said it was most likely the pitman arm that
> needed to be replaced.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pitman arm isn't a
> part that just wears
> out. So I won't be taking it there to get it
> fixed...
>
> Any suggestions as to what might be causing the
> problem? I rotated the
> tires, and that didn't help at all. Would a front
> end alignment help?
> I'd like to get this fixed before I tow the Jeep to
> Moab next month.
>
> Thanks,
> Darren
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
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44139 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:55pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


Does anyone going on the run on Sunday have one of these permits?



Robert McNeeley
<robert.mcneeley@ph To: "'hillb@s...'"
oenix.edu> <hillb@s...>, macunasprint@e...
cc: AzVJC <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
02/27/2002 02:49 PM Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday,
March 9, 2002



The part about one permit to cover the group is true. I don't think you
need
a permit to run it. I have been running the trail for 3 years and have
never
needed one. BUT... I would hate for you to get busted. The permit is $15. I
think.
Fat Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
To: macunasprint@e...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002



Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read that
as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
group. Any truth to this??

Ben





AzVJC Website

<azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
<az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
org> cc:

Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke
Ovens - Saturday,
02/26/2002 March 9, 2002

11:34 PM

Please

respond to

macunasprint







Hello All,


Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.

When: Saturday March 9, 2002
Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-6 hours
CB Channel: 4

We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.

We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty

sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone

signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like

to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time

we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.

The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some
rocks and ledges in the road.



Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the
nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which
is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then
more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.



Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one
point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of
tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see
the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.



At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They
are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
spectacular.



Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an
exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway



This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a
challenge to the novice or stock driver.



Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!

Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List


Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.










Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


44140 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:50pm
Subject: RE: Note from author of "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyer s"


Last new trail I opened (reopened the existing mining road of course) was Judgement Day 7/2001, It has been torn to crap since then. Particuarly a 5 waterfall that is now an easy 4 due to ten tons of rocks put in the deep hole at the bottom, I had my spare holding my Jeep up, here is what it looked like fresh..check out some of the newer pics and you will see exactly what we are pissed about...No rain is ever cleaning that out.
Ross "with the big lift and unit"
-----Original Message-----
From: Neal Han**** [mailto:azredrocker@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:58 PM
To: scramzilla; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Note from author of "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers"


YEAH!!!! What he said. Not only is the horse got a pulse I think it just kick something!!!!!! We'll see you this weekend when we take our over compensated vehicles out!!!

Neal

scramzilla wrote:

Pulse found on dead horse!

OK folks, I'm the guy who wrote the "Nearly Jeepers....Trail
Destroyers" note. Although I did not link it to this group, (I did not
know where it was) I'm glad somebody posted it. Now, I've read most of
the messages and other than the Penis size fetish that this board has,
and the over use of the phrase; "Dead horse," most of the discussion
has been informative. Now with that being said, I'd like to address
some of the other comments about the post and leave
the......ahhhhhh........errrrrrrrr "other stuff" behind.

My message was intended to drive home the fact that NOT every trail,
is for everybody. BUT, if you absolutely must go on a trail that is
MILES above your Jeeps capability and driving skill, leave the trail
the way you found it!.....Its' that simple folks. Now I have read some
posts that say the same thing and I applaud you. I like to drive on
many types of trails......whatever mood I'm in dictates the trail that
I will run....but here's the kicker; I can run then all! Yep! That's
right. I built a rig that can go from 5+ to a 1. I had another Jeep
that could not do the extreme trails so I built one that
could.......because that's what I liked most.

Here is the issue at hand with me in regards to the lesser equipped
and inexperienced wheelers. Why in the world would I spend tons of
money on my rig to make it bullet proof and make it capable of doing
the extreme trails only to have it wiped out by a different class of
rigs that only desire to bring it down to "their" level of
capability????? Why waste the time and money? I could just wait till
(someone else) finds the new trail. Finds the entrances and exits and
map it all out for me so I can get a few of my buds with hammers, crow
bars and RR-cross ties and turn a 4/5 trail into a 2/3 trail so "I"
could run it..........That's not right folks!

Now as far as my "Keep your mouth shut" phrase with regards to "not
tell everyone" where the new trails are.......U-betcha! It's not gonna
happen. Like some of you have said. "I can go on any trail I
want."....Yep! That's right. I can't stop you but you'll have to find
them first. When is the last time you heard of a new trail???? There
are TONS of new trails out there but the word is no longer getting
out.....mostly due to the fact that lesser equipped rigs are
DESTROYING THEM! (bypasses ect) If you ever had to help drag a burnt
out bone stock Jeep off an extreme trail that some yahoo left
there.....maybe you would respect the rating system a little more.

Oh, one more thing. There is NO better friend to have than someone
with an "Extreme rig" on trail that you just happen to be on. We have
air tanks. On board welders. almost every imaginable tool at parts to
fix almost every imaginable break. I even carry parts that fit other
peoples rigs just in case I could be of some help to someone. It's a
great feeling to help a total stranger get out of a hopeless situation
with no expectation of reward.....I'm happy to help. BUT......After
what just happened to the "Highway to Hell" trail, my heart is just
not into like it once was.....

I'll get off my soap box not but just remember, there are a LOT of
Jeepers in AZ. that spend TONS of money, go to land issue meeting to
keep the trails open and love to wheel and camp with our dogs and
family just like you do.......But we also like to go on trails that
make us feel justified in the time and expense that we incurred
building what we are proud to call our own creation.


Scramzilla





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






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Attachment: (image/jpeg) JudgementDay waterfall1.jpg [not stored]

44141 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:26pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Rock Unstacking L. Terminator


Mike,

Great idea....but can I ask one favor? When we run the trail, can I get a position near the front so I can be sure to get over the obstacles before the rocks are removed! LOL

Stu

Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:Mike@AzChatfield.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:47 PM
To: 'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Rock Unstacking L. Terminator


Ok everyone,

I just posted a rock unstacking/clean up run for Lower Terminator on March 16th.

Now is your chance to quit bellyaching and do something about it. The idea here is to remove the large rocks that will trap sand during the monsoon rains thereby ruining the trail.

I am hoping that someone else (that lives on the east side perhaps?) to lead a run to clean up another trail in March (doesn't have to be the same weekend)

With the number of active wheelers in this group we should have no problem coming up with two separate groups to clean up one trail (each group) per month. Anyone want to step forward to lead the other group?

Perhaps we could find someway to make this a competition???

Either way, if you don't join one group or the other, you forfeit your right to bellyache, moan, groan or complain about the rockstacking on our trails.

- Mike

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



44142 From: Joe West <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:07pm
Subject: RE: RE: Tires/lift/unit size


Chris... you're just suffering from "unit" envy...

;)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:15 PM
> To: Tom LaFrance; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: Tires/lift/unit size
>
>
> This topic does explain a lot of things about Joe W.
>
> :-)
>
> Chris K
>
> > From: Tom LaFrance <tlafrance@j...>
> > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:41:29 -0700
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] RE: Tires/lift/unit size
> >
> > Hmmmmm,
> >
> > I have a 4+ inch lift and 35 inch tires, therefore I MUST
> have a small
> > unit. I'll check the microscope next time I urinate to be
> sure though
> > :-)
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >> "Big tires and lift kits are a
> >> representation of a small male unit" I would equate this to driving
> >> over large boulders too, even if you have to ramp both sides to get
> >> it done.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


44143 From: Michael Wixom <h8pvmnt@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:30pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


If the coke ovens are on state land trust land, (and I am not sure if they
are or not), you will need a permit to be on the land. The one permit for a
group applies only to an organized 4wheel drive club with ASA 4WC
affiliation and then it only applies to an organized club function. You also
have to let the ASA4WDC know that you are doing the organized function.
Individuals will need permits to be legal. I have been told that much of the
enforcement in this issue is happening at the FJ area. The fine for not
having a permit can be very hefty. The permits can now be purchased at 4
wheelers supply and are good for a year. I am not a state employee but this
how I understood the states position. I know I always carry my permit with
me.

Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
----- Original Message -----
From: <hillb@s...>
To: <macunasprint@e...>
Cc: "AzVJC" <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


>
> Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read
that
> as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
> group. Any truth to this??
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> AzVJC Website
> <azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
<az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
> org> cc:
> Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke
Ovens - Saturday,
> 02/26/2002 March 9, 2002
> 11:34 PM
> Please
> respond to
> macunasprint
>
>
>
>
> Hello All,
>
>
> Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.
>
> When: Saturday March 9, 2002
> Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
> Rating: 2.5+
> Length: 4-6 hours
> CB Channel: 4
>
> We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.
>
> We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty
>
> sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone
>
> signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like
>
> to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time
>
> we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.
>
> The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
> countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some
> rocks and ledges in the road.
>
>
>
> Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the
> nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke,
which
> is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then
> more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.
>
>
>
> Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
> several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one
> point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type
of
> tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see
> the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.
>
>
>
> At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They
> are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
> spectacular.
>
>
>
> Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
> there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an
> exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway
>
>
>
> This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
> vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
> recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a
> challenge to the novice or stock driver.
>
>
>
> Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
>
> Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> - The AzVJC Website
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


44144 From: Mark Mesalam <m_mesalam@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:12pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


I believe you need a permit to be on State Trust Land, unless you possess a
current hunt/fish license and you are actively hunting or fishing. Only
other exception is if you are in a group trip sanctioned by a club that
holds a group permit. I doubt that AZ_VJC holds a group permit. The
Individual permit is $15 for an individual or $20 for a family, good for a
year from the date of purchase. If you don't have one, you are breaking a
law that is probably not enforced, at least I think it is not enforced. I
don't know what the $20 goes for, maybe to pay for signs to close roads...

For more information, go to the site for ASA4WDC
http://asa4wdc.org/wd/index.html The last publication of WHEEL DUST had an
article on this.


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNeeley [mailto:robert.mcneeley@p...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:50 PM
To: 'hillb@s...'; macunasprint@e...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002

The part about one permit to cover the group is true. I don't think you need
a permit to run it. I have been running the trail for 3 years and have never
needed one. BUT... I would hate for you to get busted. The permit is $15. I
think.
Fat Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
To: macunasprint@e...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002



Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read that
as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
group. Any truth to this??

Ben





AzVJC Website

<azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
<az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
org> cc:

Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke
Ovens - Saturday,
02/26/2002 March 9, 2002

11:34 PM

Please

respond to

macunasprint







Hello All,


Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.

When: Saturday March 9, 2002
Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-6 hours
CB Channel: 4

We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.

We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty

sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone

signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like

to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time

we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.

The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some
rocks and ledges in the road.



Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the
nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which
is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then
more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.



Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one
point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of
tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see
the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.



At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They
are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
spectacular.



Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an
exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway



This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a
challenge to the novice or stock driver.



Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!

Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List


Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.










Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


44145 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:39pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


OK....time to put some facts into this conversation. Extracted from an
on-line web site, one of the many Arizona state government ones. This was
pulled from a FAQ.

Do I need a permit to operate my OHV on State Trust Land?

Yes. You must have a recreation permit or a hunting or fishing license to be
on State Land. However, a hunting or fishing license is valid only if you
are actively engaged in hunting or fishing.

Recreational Permits are available for individuals and families and are
issued for one year from the date of purchase. The Individual Permit is
$15.00 and the Family Permit is $20.00.

Non-profit group and event recreational permits are also available. They
require a different permit and usually require a longer processing time.

You may pick up your recreational permit in person at the State Land
Department main office at 1616 West Adams, Phoenix AZ 85007. Permit
applications can also be requested by mail or by telephone during normal
business hours by calling (602) 542-4631.


Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com


-----Original Message-----
From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:55 PM
To: Robert McNeeley
Cc: 'hillb@s...'; macunasprint@e...; AzVJC
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002



Does anyone going on the run on Sunday have one of these permits?



Robert McNeeley
<robert.mcneeley@ph To:
"'hillb@s...'"
oenix.edu> <hillb@s...>,
macunasprint@e...
cc: AzVJC
<az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
02/27/2002 02:49 PM Subject: RE: [az_vjc]
[TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday,
March 9, 2002



The part about one permit to cover the group is true. I don't think you
need
a permit to run it. I have been running the trail for 3 years and have
never
needed one. BUT... I would hate for you to get busted. The permit is $15. I
think.
Fat Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
To: macunasprint@e...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002



Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read that
as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
group. Any truth to this??

Ben





AzVJC Website

<azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
<az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
org> cc:

Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke
Ovens - Saturday,
02/26/2002 March 9, 2002

11:34 PM

Please

respond to

macunasprint







Hello All,


Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.

When: Saturday March 9, 2002
Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-6 hours
CB Channel: 4

We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.

We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty

sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone

signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like

to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time

we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.

The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some
rocks and ledges in the road.



Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the
nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which
is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then
more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.



Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one
point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of
tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see
the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.



At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They
are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
spectacular.



Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an
exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway



This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a
challenge to the novice or stock driver.



Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!

Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List


Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.










Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/









Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


44146 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:30pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


I don't think this is true.

State Land in Arizona
State Trust land was granted to the state by the federal government when
Arizona became a state in 1912. These lands total approximately 9.4 million
acres and are managed by the State Land Department. State Trust Land is NOT
public land. You must obtain a permit from ASLD to be on State Trust Land.
Recreational Permits are available for individuals and families and are
issued for one year from the date of purchase. The Individual Permit is
$15.00 and the Family Permit is $20.00. You may pick up your Recreational
Permit in person at State Land Department offices. Non-profit group and
event recreational permits are also available. They require a different
permit and usually require a longer processing time. Most state land is
already leased to someone. When recreating on State Land, please follow the
rules and keep in mind that someone else is making a living from that land.

Arizona State Land Department Offices (ASLD)
www.land.state.az.us
Main Office - Phoenix (602) 542-4631
Tucson Office (520) 628-5480
Flagstaff Office (928) 774-1425


The above info was from http://www.azohv.com/ohv_info.html

Joey K
93YJ w/gps
www.desertjeep.com


-----Original Message-----
From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
To: macunasprint@e...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002



Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read that
as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
group. Any truth to this??

Ben




AzVJC Website
<azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
<az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
org> cc:
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke
Ovens - Saturday,
02/26/2002 March 9, 2002
11:34 PM
Please
respond to
macunasprint




Hello All,


Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.

When: Saturday March 9, 2002
Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-6 hours
CB Channel: 4

We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.

We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty

sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone

signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like

to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time

we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.

The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some
rocks and ledges in the road.



Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the
nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which
is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then
more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.



Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one
point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of
tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see
the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.



At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They
are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
spectacular.



Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an
exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway



This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a
challenge to the novice or stock driver.



Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!

Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List


Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.










Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


44147 From: Michael Wixom <h8pvmnt@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:57pm
Subject: Fw: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


Some more facts.... These permits are required, they are starting to
enforce it, and they are also available at 4 wheelers supply.

Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> To: <hillb@s...>; "Robert McNeeley"
<robert.mcneeley@p...>
> Cc: <macunasprint@e...>; "AzVJC" <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:39 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002
>
>
> > OK....time to put some facts into this conversation. Extracted from an
> > on-line web site, one of the many Arizona state government ones. This
was
> > pulled from a FAQ.
> >
> > Do I need a permit to operate my OHV on State Trust Land?
> >
> > Yes. You must have a recreation permit or a hunting or fishing license
to
> be
> > on State Land. However, a hunting or fishing license is valid only if
you
> > are actively engaged in hunting or fishing.
> >
> > Recreational Permits are available for individuals and families and are
> > issued for one year from the date of purchase. The Individual Permit is
> > $15.00 and the Family Permit is $20.00.
> >
> > Non-profit group and event recreational permits are also available. They
> > require a different permit and usually require a longer processing time.
> >
> > You may pick up your recreational permit in person at the State Land
> > Department main office at 1616 West Adams, Phoenix AZ 85007. Permit
> > applications can also be requested by mail or by telephone during normal
> > business hours by calling (602) 542-4631.
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:55 PM
> > To: Robert McNeeley
> > Cc: 'hillb@s...'; macunasprint@e...; AzVJC
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anyone going on the run on Sunday have one of these permits?
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert McNeeley
> > <robert.mcneeley@ph To:
> > "'hillb@s...'"
> > oenix.edu> <hillb@s...>,
> > macunasprint@e...
> > cc: AzVJC
> > <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
> > 02/27/2002 02:49 PM Subject: RE: [az_vjc]
> > [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday,
> > March 9, 2002
> >
> >
> >
> > The part about one permit to cover the group is true. I don't think you
> > need
> > a permit to run it. I have been running the trail for 3 years and have
> > never
> > needed one. BUT... I would hate for you to get busted. The permit is
$15.
> I
> > think.
> > Fat Bob
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
> > To: macunasprint@e...
> > Cc: AzVJC
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002
> >
> >
> >
> > Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read
> that
> > as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
> > group. Any truth to this??
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AzVJC Website
> >
> > <azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
> > <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
> > org> cc:
> >
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke
> > Ovens - Saturday,
> > 02/26/2002 March 9, 2002
> >
> > 11:34 PM
> >
> > Please
> >
> > respond to
> >
> > macunasprint
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> >
> > Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.
> >
> > When: Saturday March 9, 2002
> > Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
> > Rating: 2.5+
> > Length: 4-6 hours
> > CB Channel: 4
> >
> > We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.
> >
> > We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty
> >
> > sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone
> >
> > signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like
> >
> > to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time
> >
> > we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.
> >
> > The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
> > countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse
some
> > rocks and ledges in the road.
> >
> >
> >
> > Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at
the
> > nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke,
> which
> > is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the
then
> > more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.
> >
> >
> >
> > Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
> > several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one
> > point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type
> of
> > tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still
see
> > the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.
> >
> >
> >
> > At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations.
They
> > are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
> > spectacular.
> >
> >
> >
> > Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
> > there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for
an
> > exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway
> >
> >
> >
> > This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
> > vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
> > recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be
a
> > challenge to the novice or stock driver.
> >
> >
> >
> > Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
> >
> > Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
> >
> >
> > Thank You,
> >
> > - The AzVJC Website
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>


44148 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:35pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


I don't think this is true. About someone having a group permit that is.

State Land in Arizona
State Trust land was granted to the state by the federal government when
Arizona became a state in 1912. These lands total approximately 9.4 million
acres and are managed by the State Land Department. State Trust Land is NOT
public land. You must obtain a permit from ASLD to be on State Trust Land.
Recreational Permits are available for individuals and families and are
issued for one year from the date of purchase. The Individual Permit is
$15.00 and the Family Permit is $20.00. You may pick up your Recreational
Permit in person at State Land Department offices. Non-profit group and
event recreational permits are also available. They require a different
permit and usually require a longer processing time. Most state land is
already leased to someone. When recreating on State Land, please follow the
rules and keep in mind that someone else is making a living from that land.

Arizona State Land Department Offices (ASLD)
www.land.state.az.us
Main Office - Phoenix (602) 542-4631
Tucson Office (520) 628-5480
Flagstaff Office (928) 774-1425


The above info was from http://www.azohv.com/ohv_info.html

Joey K
93YJ w/gps
www.desertjeep.com


-----Original Message-----
From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
To: macunasprint@e...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002



Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read that
as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
group. Any truth to this??

Ben




AzVJC Website
<azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
<az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
org> cc:
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke
Ovens - Saturday,
02/26/2002 March 9, 2002
11:34 PM
Please
respond to
macunasprint




Hello All,


Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.

When: Saturday March 9, 2002
Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-6 hours
CB Channel: 4

We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.

We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty

sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone

signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like

to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time

we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.

The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some
rocks and ledges in the road.



Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the
nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which
is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then
more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.



Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one
point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of
tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see
the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.



At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They
are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
spectacular.



Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an
exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway



This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a
challenge to the novice or stock driver.



Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!

Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List


Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.










Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


44149 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:38pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Dana 35C Parts


I'LL TAKE THE STOCK AXLE SHAFTS! ! !


Mike Anderson


44150 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:43pm
Subject: Re: death wobble -- help?


From what I learned, I changed out the pitman arm and the ideler arm,
and it cured the wobble. Then I went down and had it aligned. I
have a 99 Tahoe, and Joe, aka Flexyxj, said that crysler had a
problem, and still has one, with the pitman and ideler arm.


Mike Baney


--- In az_vjc@y..., Darren Richards <r50880@e...> wrote:
> I have a completely stock 95 GMC 4x4 Sierra half ton pickup that I
use
> as my tow vehicle. It has been slowly developing a case of death
> wobble. It seems to happen between about 40-50 mph, and usually
occurs
> when I go over a bump or a pothole or something. It's not too
serious,
> but it seems to be getting a bit worse. I talked to someone at Sun
> Devil Auto (since they are right here next door to where I work),
and
> they said it was most likely the pitman arm that needed to be
replaced.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pitman arm isn't a part that just
wears
> out. So I won't be taking it there to get it fixed...
>
> Any suggestions as to what might be causing the problem? I rotated
the
> tires, and that didn't help at all. Would a front end alignment
help?
> I'd like to get this fixed before I tow the Jeep to Moab next month.
>
> Thanks,
> Darren


44151 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:46pm
Subject: Re: Fw: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002


Thanks for all of the info. Is 4 Wheelers open on Sat?



"Michael
Wixom" To: "AZ Virtual Jeep Club"
<h8pvmnt@hotm <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
ail.com> cc:
Subject: Fw: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday,
02/27/2002 March 9, 2002
03:57 PM





Some more facts.... These permits are required, they are starting to
enforce it, and they are also available at 4 wheelers supply.

Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> To: <hillb@s...>; "Robert McNeeley"
<robert.mcneeley@p...>
> Cc: <macunasprint@e...>; "AzVJC" <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:39 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002
>
>
> > OK....time to put some facts into this conversation. Extracted from an
> > on-line web site, one of the many Arizona state government ones. This
was
> > pulled from a FAQ.
> >
> > Do I need a permit to operate my OHV on State Trust Land?
> >
> > Yes. You must have a recreation permit or a hunting or fishing license
to
> be
> > on State Land. However, a hunting or fishing license is valid only if
you
> > are actively engaged in hunting or fishing.
> >
> > Recreational Permits are available for individuals and families and are
> > issued for one year from the date of purchase. The Individual Permit is
> > $15.00 and the Family Permit is $20.00.
> >
> > Non-profit group and event recreational permits are also available.
They
> > require a different permit and usually require a longer processing
time.
> >
> > You may pick up your recreational permit in person at the State Land
> > Department main office at 1616 West Adams, Phoenix AZ 85007. Permit
> > applications can also be requested by mail or by telephone during
normal
> > business hours by calling (602) 542-4631.
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:55 PM
> > To: Robert McNeeley
> > Cc: 'hillb@s...'; macunasprint@e...; AzVJC
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anyone going on the run on Sunday have one of these permits?
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert McNeeley
> > <robert.mcneeley@ph To:
> > "'hillb@s...'"
> > oenix.edu> <hillb@s...>,
> > macunasprint@e...
> > cc: AzVJC
> > <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
> > 02/27/2002 02:49 PM Subject: RE:
[az_vjc]
> > [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday,
> > March 9, 2002
> >
> >
> >
> > The part about one permit to cover the group is true. I don't think you
> > need
> > a permit to run it. I have been running the trail for 3 years and have
> > never
> > needed one. BUT... I would hate for you to get busted. The permit is
$15.
> I
> > think.
> > Fat Bob
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hillb@s... [mailto:hillb@s...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:43 PM
> > To: macunasprint@e...
> > Cc: AzVJC
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002
> >
> >
> >
> > Do I need a state land permit in order to do this run? I think I read
> that
> > as long as someone in the group has a permit, it would cover the entire
> > group. Any truth to this??
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AzVJC Website
> >
> > <azvjc@azvjc. To: AzVJC
> > <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
> > org> cc:
> >
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [TR]
Coke
> > Ovens - Saturday,
> > 02/26/2002 March 9, 2002
> >
> > 11:34 PM
> >
> > Please
> >
> > respond to
> >
> > macunasprint
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> >
> > Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9,
2002.
> >
> > When: Saturday March 9, 2002
> > Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
> > Rating: 2.5+
> > Length: 4-6 hours
> > CB Channel: 4
> >
> > We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.
> >
> > We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty
> >
> > sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone
> >
> > signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like
> >
> > to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time
> >
> > we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.
> >
> > The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different
> > countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse
some
> > rocks and ledges in the road.
> >
> >
> >
> > Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at
the
> > nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke,
> which
> > is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the
then
> > more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.
> >
> >
> >
> > Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and
> > several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At
one
> > point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a
type
> of
> > tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still
see
> > the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never
finished.
> >
> >
> >
> > At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations.
They
> > are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite
> > spectacular.
> >
> >
> >
> > Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low,
> > there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for
an
> > exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway
> >
> >
> >
> > This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock
> > vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly
> > recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be
a
> > challenge to the novice or stock driver.
> >
> >
> >
> > Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
> >
> > Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
> >
> >
> > Thank You,
> >
> > - The AzVJC Website
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


44152 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:49pm
Subject: Re: death wobble -- help?


I'm going to guess you are probably off to the alignment shop by now, but
here is my recent findings on death wobble.

Special note: I have a straight axle full width D44 in the front of my Jeep,
so some of this may or may not apply.

My death wobble can be contributed to 2 things. My toe adjustment was out of
spec and my upper and lower ball joints were worn out. I did both of these
at the same time and my death wobble went away.

Check rod ends and spindle attachment points for looseness. But I'm going to
bet your toe adjustment is off and creating the wobble. Only takes a little
to get the whole thing started. Once started, it has a life of its own due
to resonances and doesn't take anything to keep it going.

--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com


44153 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:49pm
Subject: Re: My sincere apologies


Damn Vern, you wear a flame suit pretty damn good! Glad to see you
clarify yourself, and hated to see so many people bash ya! Oh well,
everyone takes it in stride! Welcome (?) to the club! Now that you
got your ration of **** from everyone, tell us a little more about
your rig.....

Mike Baney


--- In az_vjc@y..., "vpheiple" <vpheiple@m...> wrote:
> First of all I was not meaning to offend anyone with big tires
> and lift kits, I have both on my Jeep. That reference was meant for
> the people who go buy there tires and lifts and think they can go
> anywhere and do anything. My statement about tearing up your Jeeps,
I
> don't believe any of you set out to tear up anything but if you
look
> at the posts for the last week it seems to be a normal occurance. I
> think rock crawling is an awesome sport and I watch it every chance
I
> get. I just don't want to take those chances with my personal
> vehicle, thats why I was asking about other clubs. From the
responses
> I got I would say not many of you got by the stupid remark about
the
> tires and lifts(again I have both on my Jeep) I commend you on
having
> a great group of people who take care of each other. In the future
I
> will be more careful how I state things. If you could have got by
> that statement I think you would have seen that I think you have a
> great club. I thank you for all the responses good or bad and the
> info on some other clubs. Again I am sorry.
>
>
> Best of luck
>
>
> Vern Heiple


44154 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:37pm
Subject: RE: RE: Tires/lift/unit size


>>I've seen some great wheelers that had no unit, but they
did have balls...just no unit.

Hmmmm.....and I am thinking that there ain't gonna be any overnight Jeep
trips with you! NO WAY! ROFMLAO


Stu

Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com


-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Tom LaFrance
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: Tires/lift/unit size


Gotta tell you...I've seen some great wheelers that had no unit, but they
did have balls...just no unit.

To counter the stereotype, last time in Parker, we came across 2 granny's
that had very well built Jeeps, and man, could they wheel... It was fun
watching them, and they had a blast doing some pretty hard stuff.

Wheelin...it's not just for weenies anymore.....

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom LaFrance" <tlafrance@j...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:41 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] RE: Tires/lift/unit size


> Hmmmmm,
>
> I have a 4+ inch lift and 35 inch tires, therefore I MUST have a small
> unit. I'll check the microscope next time I urinate to be sure though
> :-)
>
> Tom
>
>
> >"Big tires and lift kits are a
> >representation of a small male unit" I would equate this to driving
> >over large boulders too, even if you have to ramp both sides to get
> >it done.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


44155 From: Chris benner <offroadfun@t...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 3:00pm
Subject: Lack of power


Okay I'm not a jeep mechanic, but I try to do whatever is needed all on my own. lately I've been feeling like my jeep is lacking power in the upper gears. Like, I don't even shift into 5th anymore on the freeway. Nothing major was changed recently, just feels a little doggy. What should I check? I had the oil changed and recharged my K&N. What are the symptons of bad spark plugs? I'm at 61K miles and I'm sure the dealer never changed the plugs.

- Chris


44156 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:59pm
Subject: [FS] 1.75" coil spacers for 97 and up TJ


Price: $50.00

Contact: blainedepue@yahoo.com

I used the spacers on my 01' TJ and I no longer own the Jeep. They look to be in really good shape. They are red and made by Day Star. I only used them for about three months. Please email me and let me know if you are interested. I live on the west side of town in Youngtown.115th ave and Peoria.

Thanks,

Blaine

Blaine DePue


44157 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 3:02pm
Subject: Re: Note from author of "Nearly Jeepers..Trail Destroyers"


Great comments!


Mike Baney

--- In az_vjc@y..., "scramzilla" <allvol@c...> wrote:
> Pulse found on dead horse!
>
> OK folks, I'm the guy who wrote the "Nearly Jeepers....Trail
> Destroyers" note. Although I did not link it to this group, (I did
not
> know where it was) I'm glad somebody posted it. Now, I've read most
of
> the messages and other than the Penis size fetish that this board
has,
> and the over use of the phrase; "Dead horse," most of the
discussion
> has been informative. Now with that being said, I'd like to address
> some of the other comments about the post and leave
> the......ahhhhhh........errrrrrrrr "other stuff" behind.
>
> My message was intended to drive home the fact that NOT every
trail,
> is for everybody. BUT, if you absolutely must go on a trail that is
> MILES above your Jeeps capability and driving skill, leave the
trail
> the way you found it!.....Its' that simple folks. Now I have read
some
> posts that say the same thing and I applaud you. I like to drive on
> many types of trails......whatever mood I'm in dictates the trail
that
> I will run....but here's the kicker; I can run then all! Yep!
That's
> right. I built a rig that can go from 5+ to a 1. I had another Jeep
> that could not do the extreme trails so I built one that
> could.......because that's what I liked most.
>
> Here is the issue at hand with me in regards to the lesser equipped
> and inexperienced wheelers. Why in the world would I spend tons of
> money on my rig to make it bullet proof and make it capable of
doing
> the extreme trails only to have it wiped out by a different class
of
> rigs that only desire to bring it down to "their" level of
> capability????? Why waste the time and money? I could just wait
till
> (someone else) finds the new trail. Finds the entrances and exits
and
> map it all out for me so I can get a few of my buds with hammers,
crow
> bars and RR-cross ties and turn a 4/5 trail into a 2/3 trail so "I"
> could run it..........That's not right folks!
>
> Now as far as my "Keep your mouth shut" phrase with regards to "not
> tell everyone" where the new trails are.......U-betcha! It's not
gonna
> happen. Like some of you have said. "I can go on any trail I
> want."....Yep! That's right. I can't stop you but you'll have to
find
> them first. When is the last time you heard of a new trail????
There
> are TONS of new trails out there but the word is no longer getting
> out.....mostly due to the fact that lesser equipped rigs are
> DESTROYING THEM! (bypasses ect) If you ever had to help drag a
burnt
> out bone stock Jeep off an extreme trail that some yahoo left
> there.....maybe you would respect the rating system a little more.
>
> Oh, one more thing. There is NO better friend to have than someone
> with an "Extreme rig" on trail that you just happen to be on. We
have
> air tanks. On board welders. almost every imaginable tool at parts
to
> fix almost every imaginable break. I even carry parts that fit
other
> peoples rigs just in case I could be of some help to someone. It's
a
> great feeling to help a total stranger get out of a hopeless
situation
> with no expectation of reward.....I'm happy to help. BUT......After
> what just happened to the "Highway to Hell" trail, my heart is just
> not into like it once was.....
>
> I'll get off my soap box not but just remember, there are a LOT of
> Jeepers in AZ. that spend TONS of money, go to land issue meeting
to
> keep the trails open and love to wheel and camp with our dogs and
> family just like you do.......But we also like to go on trails that
> make us feel justified in the time and expense that we incurred
> building what we are proud to call our own creation.
>
>
> Scramzilla


44158 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 3:09pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Rock Unstacking L. Terminator


Who is going to chuck all the timbers out of there??? ;)

Mike Baney


--- In az_vjc@y..., "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Great idea....but can I ask one favor? When we run the trail, can
I get a
> position near the front so I can be sure to get over the obstacles
before
> the rocks are removed! LOL
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:Mike@A...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:47 PM
> To: 'az_vjc@y...'
> Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Rock Unstacking L. Terminator
>
>
> Ok everyone,
>
> I just posted a rock unstacking/clean up run for Lower Terminator
on March
> 16th.
>
> Now is your chance to quit bellyaching and do something about it.
The idea
> here is to remove the large rocks that will trap sand during the
monsoon
> rains thereby ruining the trail.
>
> I am hoping that someone else (that lives on the east side
perhaps?) to lead
> a run to clean up another trail in March (doesn't have to be the
same
> weekend)
>
> With the number of active wheelers in this group we should have no
problem
> coming up with two separate groups to clean up one trail (each
group) per
> month. Anyone want to step forward to lead the other group?
>
> Perhaps we could find someway to make this a competition???
>
> Either way, if you don't join one group or the other, you forfeit
your right
> to bellyache, moan, groan or complain about the rockstacking on our
trails.
>
> - Mike
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


44159 From: AzVJC Website <Mike@A...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:41pm
Subject: [TR] Terminator (Lower) - Saturday, March 16, 2002


Hello All,

Mike Chatfield is leading a Terminator (Lower) trail run on Saturday, March 16, 2002.

When: 8am Meet

8:30am Roll Out
Where: The parking lot off of Table Mesa Rd.
Rating: 4.5-
Length: All Day
CB Channel: 4

This will be a clean up/rock unstacking run.



The goal is for this team to do one trail per month, and for another team to also do one trail per month.



The idea here is to undo all of the rock stacking that has been done in the past few years so that when the monsoon rains come, the trails aren't filled in with sand.



Idealy, I'd like another trip leader to step forward and take charge of the other group, hopefully taking one of the following trails:



Anaconda

Highway to Hell

Annihilator

Predator

Ajax

????

Lower Terminator was the first of the Terminator Trails.



You will find the infamous "White Line" and "Terminator" obstacles on this trail. While both spots certainly have the potential to "Terminate" your vehicle, they will definitely grab your attention.



You will go over, around, straddle and tip on the rocks on this trail; you will find yourself off-camber and wonder why you're doing this, but will love it. It is an awesome trail with numerous play areas and very few bypasses.



Clearance and Lockers are a must, 33" tires a minimum and experienced drivers a must.



Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!

Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List

Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website