blooddrive
01-04-2004, 12:24 PM
44035-44059
44035 From: <flatfendr@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 0:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
I have thrown those rocks and timbers over the side at the step more than once. Next time maybe I will load them up and drive for a bit, then off load them. Where do these people get the energy?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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44036 From: <aphrodsyak@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
KEEP ON CHUCKIN STU ????
Look out stu!! some one wants to throw you now..
ERIC
44037 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:17pm
Subject: RE: Giant ZJ
Is that short bus running a long arm kit! LOL Gotta love 'em!
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike & Karen Acuna
To: AZVJC AZVJC
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 5:05 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Giant ZJ
Look! the ZJ cometh.
Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Attachment: (image/jpeg) CWINDOWS.000TEMPnsmail12.jpeg [not stored]
44038 From: bobandamanda2001 <dookie78@j...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:20pm
Subject: Trail run Sat.
Would anyone be interested in running upper Woodpecker this Saturday?
I would like someone else to lead, as I have never ran the whole
trail. If anyone is interested, let me know. Thanks!
Bob Kennedy
99 TJ
35's & some other junk
44039 From: <fls82@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:28pm
Subject: Re: Schnebly & Pinkies
I was under the impression that the "good Samaritan" law was if you stopped
and tried to "render first aid" and the person survived... He/she couldn't
sue you...
Schnebly Hill Road, at least the one I'm familiar with is NOT exactly what
one would call, "in the middle of nowhere" or "remote."
I'm sure that if help was needed, even the "Pinkies" or the passengers would
NOT hesitate for a second and summon help if not actually lending a hand.
It used to be called "common courtesy" ... though not as common as it used to
be!
Jim B.
Flag., AZ
44040 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:36pm
Subject: Re: 36" Super Swamer SX's for sale
I think they may be sold.. ill keep in touch if this falls through!
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "az_jeeper_mike" <azvjc@a...>
To: "Nick Gasmena" <horizon@h...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: 36" Super Swamer SX's for sale
> I'd like to take a look at these.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Nick Gasmena" <horizon@h...> wrote:
> > Im trying to get rid of my 36x12.50x15" SS SX's. Any idea what
> these would sell for? They are still in great shape... Have about
> 1/2" tred above the wear line. Very knobby still. They have a
> couple chunks taken from the knobs from offroad use. But are still
> in excellent condition otherwise. Street safe & offroad safe. Would
> make a great set of wheelin' tires.
> >
> > I just got my new lift, and I want my bigger tires now! :)
> >
> > BIGGER IS BETTER! Dont let anyone tell you otherwise!!! hehe
> >
> > Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
> > -----------------------
> > Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
> > My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
> > My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
>
44041 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:57pm
Subject: RE: Schnebly and Pink-Jeepers.....
One of the last things I did before I left Arizona was take a CPR class.
One of the big topics brought up during the class was if Arizona has a good
samaritan law, it does not.
Michael
Albuquerque, NM
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:27:02 -0700
From: "Ben Bethel" <ben_bethel@h...>
Subject: Schnebly and Pink-Jeepers...
We should all email Pink Jeep Tours and let them know that theyshould at
least stop and ask if someone needs help when they're obviouslyfixing their
Jeep in the middle of nowhere - isn't there a good samaritanlaw? I think
it would apply to someone in need in a remote situation...Ben
__________________________________________________ _______________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
44042 From: <itsajeepthing28@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:59pm
Subject: Possible Land Closure
I would appreciate a full response from the members of Arizona Virtual Jeep
Club. Once again the government is trying to close down more land to all
offroad access. Apparently the Horned Lizard is being proposed as a
threatened species.
Here is the article as printed in the Copper News a local paper in Ajo,
Arizona.
"The US Fish & Wildlife Service has proposed listing the flat-tailed horned
lizard as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. A 120 day
public comment period will end on April 25. Comments may be sent to Field
Supervisor, Carlsbad Fish & Wildlife Office, 2730 Loker Avenue West,
Carlsbad, California 92008, or e-mailed to fthl@r.... The flat tailed
horned lizard is a small desert reptile inhabiting Sonoran desert flatlands
in western Arizona, eastern California, notheastern Baja California, and
nothwestern Sonora, Mexico.
Please send your comments to them as soon as possible. We need to get the
government to quit closing areas available to us!!! Please take a look at a
map. Most of Southwestern Arizona is already closed to us from Wildlife
Monuments, Refuges, Air Force Ranges, Indian Reservations, Wilderness Areas,
Proving Grounds, etc. I will be happy to provide a list of them to anyone
that asks.
How much more can they take... Give them your opinion in a respectful way and
they will listen. THANKS A MILLION!!!!!!!
Gary Oglesby
44043 From: flexyxj <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:05pm
Subject: Re: [FS] looking to buy powertrax no-slip
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
> for what axle??? I have one , brand new in the box ...its for a
NON- C- clip dana 35.....300 dollars will buy it
FlexyXJ
44044 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:32pm
Subject: Somebody was looking for a Scrambler
I can't remember who but someone posted looking for a Scrambler. Here is one
that looks as if it might be good.
(Posted on another board)
------------------------------
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/judd_austin/lst?.dir=/%2781+Jeep+Scrambler
Cut and paste the above link to see images of my
1981 Laredo Scrambler in excellent condition
Stock Maroon paint with two tone (grey and silver) decals and trim,
Bigfoot 31x10.5s on chrome stock rims, stock seats in excellent shape,
bulkhead, Half
hardtop, orignal wood rails, new Bestop full soft top, half doors,
Strapless bikini, and Windjammer Acme full doors, new Bestop Folding
rear seat w/lapbelts. The frame is perfect, the body has virtually NO
rust save a small spot on the drivers side floor where a foot wore off
the paint and it's slightly pitted.
*103k miles
*new long Block in '86,
*4.0 head conversion in October 2000,
*Fuel injected full Clifford 6=8 treament - New cam and lifters,TBI
Intake, header and adaptor,
*Turbo-city work includes ESC Mod, high energy ign-juicebox MOD,
performance chip etc.
*Flowmaster exaust,
*completely rebuilt T-4 Tranny
*New Clutch
*Power brakes, and factory AC.
***I have all receipts for work
listed above.***
Nothing to hide on this Jeep; It idles perfect, runs
tight, rumbles down the road with ease.
asking $8000 or best offer
judd_austin@y...
760-310-3033
-----------------------
It's in Southern California.
--James
44045 From: Eric Marble <emarble3@p...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:05pm
Subject: Fw: Trail Destroyers
----- Original Message -----
From: "azredrocker" <azredrocker@y...>
To: "ERIC C MARBLE" <emarble3@p...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Trail Destroyers
> We don't need rain! We need a TYPHOON!!!!!!!! The last big rain
> storm we had during Jamboree 2000 didn't even come close to fixing
> the rock stacking problem. All that happened is the sand backed up
> behind all the rocks that have been stacked over the years. Look at
> all the fill in Lower Woodpecker, that is due to stacking rocks in
> key locations so you could make the obstical. So it's a free
> country, fine stack rocks! But it gives all of us a bad reputation.
> Respect the 4-wheeler behind you that wants the chalange of a 4+
> trail, and for gods sack, no by passes. Buy a winch!!!!!!
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "ERIC C MARBLE" <emarble3@p...> wrote:
> > hope it rains soon!
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:48 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Trail Destroyers
> >
> >
> > > A minor point I would like to bring up. This year we have had no
> major
> > rain.
> > > The rock stacking usually takes care of it self and the trails
> change due
> > to
> > > a lot of fast water going through them. We have not had that this
> year so
> > > you are getting about 2 years of rock stacking build up. Just a
> thought.
> > Jim
> > > F.
> > > Sorry Eric I meant to send this to the group:).
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
44046 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:09pm
Subject: [FS] CJ LIFT
Price: MAKE AN OFFER
Contact: CHRIS @ 602-526-2584
4" PRO COMP CJ LIFT AND SHOCKS....NO HARDWARE
Chris Jean
44047 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:31pm
Subject: RE: Fw: Trail Destroyers
I see we're still whining about this thread. Give it up! It's been beaten to
death!
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Marble [mailto:emarble3@p...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:05 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Trail Destroyers
----- Original Message -----
From: "azredrocker" <azredrocker@y...>
To: "ERIC C MARBLE" <emarble3@p...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Trail Destroyers
> We don't need rain! We need a TYPHOON!!!!!!!! The last big rain
> storm we had during Jamboree 2000 didn't even come close to fixing
> the rock stacking problem. All that happened is the sand backed up
> behind all the rocks that have been stacked over the years. Look at
> all the fill in Lower Woodpecker, that is due to stacking rocks in
> key locations so you could make the obstical. So it's a free
> country, fine stack rocks! But it gives all of us a bad reputation.
> Respect the 4-wheeler behind you that wants the chalange of a 4+
> trail, and for gods sack, no by passes. Buy a winch!!!!!!
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "ERIC C MARBLE" <emarble3@p...> wrote:
> > hope it rains soon!
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:48 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Trail Destroyers
> >
> >
> > > A minor point I would like to bring up. This year we have had no
> major
> > rain.
> > > The rock stacking usually takes care of it self and the trails
> change due
> > to
> > > a lot of fast water going through them. We have not had that this
> year so
> > > you are getting about 2 years of rock stacking build up. Just a
> thought.
> > Jim
> > > F.
> > > Sorry Eric I meant to send this to the group:).
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44048 From: swaders7 <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:34pm
Subject: tomorrow...
If anyone has off tomorrow and would like to make a run somewhere,
I'd love to go. Just let me know anytime. I'll prolly be up early
and I'll be checking.
~Wade
97 "Not a Smurf" TJ
44049 From: Ralph Williams <ralphbw@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Consider this;
Most all of the trails were once made to access mines in the
area. This would include H2H and Crown King. I have never been to
H2H but have seen the area, I have been up the Crown King trail.
If you look you can see that the trail was made by blasting the
side of the mountain out, the rocky area above the "ledge" would
have been filled in with "shot rock" and would have been
relatively smooth. The "shot rock" has since washed away.
These trails were made to be passable by heavily loaded wagons
probably pulled by 20 mules or horses, maybe oxen. Not too
tough...
Think about it.
There ain't nothing natural about any of them. Not condoning
stacking or condemning it...Ants build anthills, man builds roads
and buildings. Man is natural, ants are natural, the sun is a
nuclear reaction, a nuclear bomb is natural too.
Ralph
Roger Tomas wrote:
>
> Stu,
>
> My comments weren't directed at you - they were directed at everyone.
> I agree that the timbers didn't use to be there and I, too, consider
> them to *not* be part of the trail. (See, I have no specific prejudice
> against timber chuckers.) ;-)
>
> My point was that there is no absolute definition of what the natural
> state of some trail is. Most people (myself included) probably tend
> to think that a trail ought to be the way it was the first time they
> ran it. I remember what the Crown King trail was like when I first
> ran it so that's how I tend to think it should be. Someone who first
> ran it last week will think that the ledge - in its current form - is
> how the trail should be. Ultimately, there is now absolute correct
> state for any trail. Mother Nature makes sure of that.
>
> -Roger
>
> Stu Olson wrote:
> >
> > Well, as I am one who has admitted to throwing the rail road timbers off of
> > the side of the ledge, I guess the below message applies to me.
> >
> > In my simple defense, I will say that the first time I ran that trail, some
> > 3 years ago, there were NO rail road timbers stacked at the ledge. So, I
> > fixed the problem....I left the trail the same way I found it, 3 years ago.
> > I feel very confident that mother nature did not wash the timbers down the
> > trail and deposit them at the ledge. ;)
> >
> > So....to leave the trail as you found it....do we now require some time
> > reference to go buy? That sounds pretty anal.
> >
> > Stu....the self-confessed "timber chucker"!
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44050 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:45pm
Subject: [FS] Scout dana 44's, detroits, and 3.73 gears
Price: $1300
Contact: bphinney1@msn.com
Front and rear Scout d44's from a '75 Scout II, complete. Front disc, rear drum. Rear has factory trac-loc. Two detroits and two 3.73 gear sets with about 1000 miles on each. Can email pictures if needed. Email or call me bphinney1@msn.com or 520-790-5389 evenings.
Bryce Phinney
44051 From: Gary MacLaren <gmaclaren@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:12pm
Subject: Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board - Judge Overturns 'Critical Habitat' of 2 Species
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Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board > Miscellaneous > Land Use Issues > Judge Overturns 'Critical Habitat' of 2 Species
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Crowdog
Wheeler
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Shingle Springs, CA
Member #2787
Posts: 465
Judge Overturns 'Critical Habitat' of 2 Species
Let's hope this is the start of a snowball.....
Crowdog
www.crowley-offroad.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judge Overturns 'Critical Habitat' of 2 Species
Environment: A new analysis of the economic effects of setting aside more than 500,000 acres to protect the threatened gnatcatcher and fairy shrimp is ordered.
February 26, 2002
By SEEMA MEHTA, TIMES STAFF WRITER
A federal judge in Los Angeles, acceding to a Bush administration request, Monday invalidated protection of several hundred thousand acres of land in Southern California deemed essential to the survival of two imperiled species.
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials have said the request is part of a broad reevaluation of "critical habitat" designations involving millions of acres of protected land, mainly in California.
Environmentalists fear the administration's action is the first step in a broad rollback of protections for rare plants and animals covered by the Endangered Species Act. "This is a huge issue because there are so many other critical habitat designations impacted," said William Snape, vice president of legal affairs for Defenders of Wildlife, in Washington, D.C. "I think it's upwards of 100 species whose habitats are hanging in the balance."
In his ruling Monday, U.S. District Judge
Stephen V. Wilson said the Fish and Wildlife Service must redo the economic analysis of the effects of designating more than half a million acres as critical habitat for the coastal California gnatcatcher, a tiny bird, and the San Diego fairy shrimp. Real estate developers, ranchers and farmers have been lobbying the Bush administration to make it easier and cheaper to build on critical habitat in a number of places around the country. In the Southern California case, the judge left open the question of whether existing protections would stay in place until a revised economic analysis and new habitat designations are completed in 2004.
Wilson said he will not rule on that issue until he receives additional written arguments from attorneys representing the federal wildlife agency and an environmental group. "To vacate the critical habitat in place would mean, for a period of time, there would be no critical habitat," Wilson said during a 45-minute hearing. "The court's concern is, how can there be some [protection] in the intervening period? ... There apparently is a movement to begin development of at least part of the land."
This is a key concern of environmentalists, who fear that nullifying existing rules would remove major hurdles for two huge developments-Rancho Mission Viejo's 14,000 homes and a toll road-and allow the destruction of sensitive habitat in southern Orange County.
One of the most controversial provisions of the Endangered Species Act, critical habitat is a category of protected land in which building and other activity can be limited or even barred to ensure the survival of rare plants and animals. The land at issue in Monday's hearing is covered with coastal sage scrub, where the threatened gnatcatcher nests, and dotted with seasonal pools that are home to the endangered fairy shrimp.
In 2000, the Fish and Wildlife Service designated 513,650 acres in Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego, San Bernardino and Riverside counties as critical habitat for the gnatcatcher, and 4,025 acres in Orange and San Diego counties for the fairy shrimp. Kristen Gustafson, the U.S. Justice Department attorney representing the Fish and Wildlife Service, said lifting the land protection would not affect the species. "The gnatcatcher and fairy shrimp will not suffer harm if the habitat were vacated," she said.
She said both creatures would be adequately protected by other sections of the Endangered Species Act. Andrew Wetzler, a lawyer who represented the Natural Resources Defense Council at the hearing, disagreed. "There's no clearer indication of the importance of critical habitat than the fact that Rancho Mission Viejo and the transportation corridor agencies are suing to overturn it," Wetzler said after the hearing. "We're obviously disappointed that the service once again failed to defend its own regulations," he
said. The administration's request to eliminate the designations coincides with a slew of lawsuits brought by developers and other landowners nationwide, challenging how the government conducted its financial analyses of the effect of designating critical habitat. Before designating habitat, the service is legally required to analyze the economic consequences for developers, property owners, cities and others who have an interest in the land. Until last year, nearly all those analyses had said creating critical habitat would have little to no economic effect. Developers and others have long argued that habitat designations were far costlier than the government estimated. One developer-funded study in California estimated that the gnatcatcher critical habitat alone would cost the state $5.5 billion in lost jobs, housing and property value over 20 years.
For many property owners, the designations amount to little more than lines on a map. But compliance can be difficult for landowners dependent on federal subsidies or permits-as many major developers and road builders are.
"This [ruling] is further confirmation of our belief that the law requires a real thorough economic analysis," said Rob Thornton, a lawyer representing the Building Industry Assn. of Southern California, the toll road builders and others.
The Fish and Wildlife Service agreed that a new economic analysis was needed, citing a federal appeals court ruling in May that struck down protection of stream-side habitat in New Mexico for another bird, the Southwestern willow flycatcher.
The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the process used to decide what lands to protect did not adequately analyze the financial effect on property owners and others who make a living from that protect millions of acres of land. the land.
Federal wildlife officials have said they were trying to be consistent with that ruling by reviewing up to 10 habitat designations.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...pe%2Dcalifornia
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02-26-2002 04:53 PM
Crowdog
Wheeler
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Shingle Springs, CA
Member #2787
Posts: 465
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Environmentalists fear the administration's action is the first step in a broad rollback of protections for rare plants and animals covered by the Endangered Species Act.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I remember correctly, the judicial branch and the executive branch are separate. How can this be the doing of any administration? Just the leftist media at it again....
Crowdog
__________________
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
Environmental Wacko News & more
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02-26-2002 04:55 PM
landuseorc
Newbie
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Aztec, NM
Member #9328
Posts: 84
I saw this earlier, and my first response is finally some common sense in all this. They are required to address economic impact, and it is something that has been pushed aside in the past with all the bullying from CBD and that ilk. Good to see a judge with some cojones.
__________________
Brad Ullrich
Off-Road.com Land Use Editor
www.off-road.com/land
home.off-road.com/~rockgarden
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02-26-2002 06:33 PM
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44052 From: bikiniride <bikiniride@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:27pm
Subject: JEEPZONE !!! My group..
Great site, keep up the good work.. If you have time take a look at
my Jeep & group at JEEPZONE...
44053 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:00pm
Subject: [FS] wanted,paddle tires for sandrail
Price: ?
Contact: weasel_ugs@hotmail.com
wanted,paddle tires,prefer mounted on 4 or 5 lug VW wheels but not mandatory.let me know condition and size. Don
Don Turner
44054 From: weasel_ugs <weaselugs@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:08pm
Subject: sorry last"wanted" went to list
sorry last wanted went to list,still trying to get the hang of the
classifieds section, Don
44055 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:34pm
Subject: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002
Hello All,
Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.
When: Saturday March 9, 2002
Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-6 hours
CB Channel: 4
We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.
We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty
sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone
signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like
to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time
we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.
The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some rocks and ledges in the road.
Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.
Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.
At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite spectacular.
Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low, there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway
This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a challenge to the novice or stock driver.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
44056 From: vpheiple <vpheiple@m...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 0:02am
Subject: 4x4 clubs
Do any of you know of any normal family oriented clubs, whose whole
purpose in life is not to tear up their Jeeps, but to enjoy a weekend
away from the city. Your site is very interesting, but seems to be
tailored more to the radical side of offroading, most of the messages
I have read are about modifications made to Jeeps and where to get
parts after you tear your Jeeps up. I do agree with many of the
points you bring up about people staying off of trails they don't
belong on, but like my fiance says "Big tires and lift kits are a
representation of a small male unit" I would equate this to driving
over large boulders too, even if you have to ramp both sides to get
it done. Don't get me wrong, I realize that most of you go offroad
because you love the challenge and I am sure it is a pure adrenlin
rush taking something you have built and being able to do something
with it that not many others can do. That's why there are so many
want to be's messing up your trails, they don't see that they are
ruining the trail, just that they made it to the top. It is great
that your club see's the benefits of keeping what you have,where I
come from so much of the land is closed to 4x4's, you are quite lucky
to have the opportunity get off the road.
Best Regards
Vern Heiple
p.s. Having to clean up other peoples messes is a part of life
because most people only care about themselves and whats good for
them at the time.
44057 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:51am
Subject: Re: 4x4 clubs
Don't let the door hit you in the ***....
----- Original Message -----
From: "vpheiple" <vpheiple@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:02 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] 4x4 clubs
>... but like my fiance says "Big tires and lift kits are a
> representation of a small male unit" I would equate this to driving
> over large boulders too, even if you have to ramp both sides to get
> it done. >
> Vern Heiple
>
>
44058 From: Neal Han**** <azredrocker@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:59am
Subject: Re: 4x4 clubs
Here, here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DougB wrote:
Don't let the door hit you in the ***....
----- Original Message -----
From: "vpheiple"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:02 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] 4x4 clubs
>... but like my fiance says "Big tires and lift kits are a
> representation of a small male unit" I would equate this to driving
> over large boulders too, even if you have to ramp both sides to get
> it done. >
> Vern Heiple
>
>
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44059 From: <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 0:25am
Subject: Re: 4x4 clubs
Why is your fiance concerned with the size of the groups units? If you dont like the club and want to leave then do so...dont be throwing insults on your way!
Sharky
44035 From: <flatfendr@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 0:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
I have thrown those rocks and timbers over the side at the step more than once. Next time maybe I will load them up and drive for a bit, then off load them. Where do these people get the energy?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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44036 From: <aphrodsyak@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
KEEP ON CHUCKIN STU ????
Look out stu!! some one wants to throw you now..
ERIC
44037 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:17pm
Subject: RE: Giant ZJ
Is that short bus running a long arm kit! LOL Gotta love 'em!
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike & Karen Acuna
To: AZVJC AZVJC
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 5:05 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Giant ZJ
Look! the ZJ cometh.
Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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44038 From: bobandamanda2001 <dookie78@j...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:20pm
Subject: Trail run Sat.
Would anyone be interested in running upper Woodpecker this Saturday?
I would like someone else to lead, as I have never ran the whole
trail. If anyone is interested, let me know. Thanks!
Bob Kennedy
99 TJ
35's & some other junk
44039 From: <fls82@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:28pm
Subject: Re: Schnebly & Pinkies
I was under the impression that the "good Samaritan" law was if you stopped
and tried to "render first aid" and the person survived... He/she couldn't
sue you...
Schnebly Hill Road, at least the one I'm familiar with is NOT exactly what
one would call, "in the middle of nowhere" or "remote."
I'm sure that if help was needed, even the "Pinkies" or the passengers would
NOT hesitate for a second and summon help if not actually lending a hand.
It used to be called "common courtesy" ... though not as common as it used to
be!
Jim B.
Flag., AZ
44040 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:36pm
Subject: Re: 36" Super Swamer SX's for sale
I think they may be sold.. ill keep in touch if this falls through!
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "az_jeeper_mike" <azvjc@a...>
To: "Nick Gasmena" <horizon@h...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: 36" Super Swamer SX's for sale
> I'd like to take a look at these.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Nick Gasmena" <horizon@h...> wrote:
> > Im trying to get rid of my 36x12.50x15" SS SX's. Any idea what
> these would sell for? They are still in great shape... Have about
> 1/2" tred above the wear line. Very knobby still. They have a
> couple chunks taken from the knobs from offroad use. But are still
> in excellent condition otherwise. Street safe & offroad safe. Would
> make a great set of wheelin' tires.
> >
> > I just got my new lift, and I want my bigger tires now! :)
> >
> > BIGGER IS BETTER! Dont let anyone tell you otherwise!!! hehe
> >
> > Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
> > -----------------------
> > Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
> > My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
> > My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
>
44041 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:57pm
Subject: RE: Schnebly and Pink-Jeepers.....
One of the last things I did before I left Arizona was take a CPR class.
One of the big topics brought up during the class was if Arizona has a good
samaritan law, it does not.
Michael
Albuquerque, NM
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:27:02 -0700
From: "Ben Bethel" <ben_bethel@h...>
Subject: Schnebly and Pink-Jeepers...
We should all email Pink Jeep Tours and let them know that theyshould at
least stop and ask if someone needs help when they're obviouslyfixing their
Jeep in the middle of nowhere - isn't there a good samaritanlaw? I think
it would apply to someone in need in a remote situation...Ben
__________________________________________________ _______________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
44042 From: <itsajeepthing28@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:59pm
Subject: Possible Land Closure
I would appreciate a full response from the members of Arizona Virtual Jeep
Club. Once again the government is trying to close down more land to all
offroad access. Apparently the Horned Lizard is being proposed as a
threatened species.
Here is the article as printed in the Copper News a local paper in Ajo,
Arizona.
"The US Fish & Wildlife Service has proposed listing the flat-tailed horned
lizard as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. A 120 day
public comment period will end on April 25. Comments may be sent to Field
Supervisor, Carlsbad Fish & Wildlife Office, 2730 Loker Avenue West,
Carlsbad, California 92008, or e-mailed to fthl@r.... The flat tailed
horned lizard is a small desert reptile inhabiting Sonoran desert flatlands
in western Arizona, eastern California, notheastern Baja California, and
nothwestern Sonora, Mexico.
Please send your comments to them as soon as possible. We need to get the
government to quit closing areas available to us!!! Please take a look at a
map. Most of Southwestern Arizona is already closed to us from Wildlife
Monuments, Refuges, Air Force Ranges, Indian Reservations, Wilderness Areas,
Proving Grounds, etc. I will be happy to provide a list of them to anyone
that asks.
How much more can they take... Give them your opinion in a respectful way and
they will listen. THANKS A MILLION!!!!!!!
Gary Oglesby
44043 From: flexyxj <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:05pm
Subject: Re: [FS] looking to buy powertrax no-slip
--- In az_vjc@y..., AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...> wrote:
> for what axle??? I have one , brand new in the box ...its for a
NON- C- clip dana 35.....300 dollars will buy it
FlexyXJ
44044 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:32pm
Subject: Somebody was looking for a Scrambler
I can't remember who but someone posted looking for a Scrambler. Here is one
that looks as if it might be good.
(Posted on another board)
------------------------------
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/judd_austin/lst?.dir=/%2781+Jeep+Scrambler
Cut and paste the above link to see images of my
1981 Laredo Scrambler in excellent condition
Stock Maroon paint with two tone (grey and silver) decals and trim,
Bigfoot 31x10.5s on chrome stock rims, stock seats in excellent shape,
bulkhead, Half
hardtop, orignal wood rails, new Bestop full soft top, half doors,
Strapless bikini, and Windjammer Acme full doors, new Bestop Folding
rear seat w/lapbelts. The frame is perfect, the body has virtually NO
rust save a small spot on the drivers side floor where a foot wore off
the paint and it's slightly pitted.
*103k miles
*new long Block in '86,
*4.0 head conversion in October 2000,
*Fuel injected full Clifford 6=8 treament - New cam and lifters,TBI
Intake, header and adaptor,
*Turbo-city work includes ESC Mod, high energy ign-juicebox MOD,
performance chip etc.
*Flowmaster exaust,
*completely rebuilt T-4 Tranny
*New Clutch
*Power brakes, and factory AC.
***I have all receipts for work
listed above.***
Nothing to hide on this Jeep; It idles perfect, runs
tight, rumbles down the road with ease.
asking $8000 or best offer
judd_austin@y...
760-310-3033
-----------------------
It's in Southern California.
--James
44045 From: Eric Marble <emarble3@p...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:05pm
Subject: Fw: Trail Destroyers
----- Original Message -----
From: "azredrocker" <azredrocker@y...>
To: "ERIC C MARBLE" <emarble3@p...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Trail Destroyers
> We don't need rain! We need a TYPHOON!!!!!!!! The last big rain
> storm we had during Jamboree 2000 didn't even come close to fixing
> the rock stacking problem. All that happened is the sand backed up
> behind all the rocks that have been stacked over the years. Look at
> all the fill in Lower Woodpecker, that is due to stacking rocks in
> key locations so you could make the obstical. So it's a free
> country, fine stack rocks! But it gives all of us a bad reputation.
> Respect the 4-wheeler behind you that wants the chalange of a 4+
> trail, and for gods sack, no by passes. Buy a winch!!!!!!
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "ERIC C MARBLE" <emarble3@p...> wrote:
> > hope it rains soon!
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:48 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Trail Destroyers
> >
> >
> > > A minor point I would like to bring up. This year we have had no
> major
> > rain.
> > > The rock stacking usually takes care of it self and the trails
> change due
> > to
> > > a lot of fast water going through them. We have not had that this
> year so
> > > you are getting about 2 years of rock stacking build up. Just a
> thought.
> > Jim
> > > F.
> > > Sorry Eric I meant to send this to the group:).
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
44046 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:09pm
Subject: [FS] CJ LIFT
Price: MAKE AN OFFER
Contact: CHRIS @ 602-526-2584
4" PRO COMP CJ LIFT AND SHOCKS....NO HARDWARE
Chris Jean
44047 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:31pm
Subject: RE: Fw: Trail Destroyers
I see we're still whining about this thread. Give it up! It's been beaten to
death!
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Marble [mailto:emarble3@p...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:05 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Trail Destroyers
----- Original Message -----
From: "azredrocker" <azredrocker@y...>
To: "ERIC C MARBLE" <emarble3@p...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Trail Destroyers
> We don't need rain! We need a TYPHOON!!!!!!!! The last big rain
> storm we had during Jamboree 2000 didn't even come close to fixing
> the rock stacking problem. All that happened is the sand backed up
> behind all the rocks that have been stacked over the years. Look at
> all the fill in Lower Woodpecker, that is due to stacking rocks in
> key locations so you could make the obstical. So it's a free
> country, fine stack rocks! But it gives all of us a bad reputation.
> Respect the 4-wheeler behind you that wants the chalange of a 4+
> trail, and for gods sack, no by passes. Buy a winch!!!!!!
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "ERIC C MARBLE" <emarble3@p...> wrote:
> > hope it rains soon!
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:48 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Trail Destroyers
> >
> >
> > > A minor point I would like to bring up. This year we have had no
> major
> > rain.
> > > The rock stacking usually takes care of it self and the trails
> change due
> > to
> > > a lot of fast water going through them. We have not had that this
> year so
> > > you are getting about 2 years of rock stacking build up. Just a
> thought.
> > Jim
> > > F.
> > > Sorry Eric I meant to send this to the group:).
> > >
> > > I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a
> member. "Groucho
> > > Marx"
> > > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
> > > http://www.rockrats.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44048 From: swaders7 <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:34pm
Subject: tomorrow...
If anyone has off tomorrow and would like to make a run somewhere,
I'd love to go. Just let me know anytime. I'll prolly be up early
and I'll be checking.
~Wade
97 "Not a Smurf" TJ
44049 From: Ralph Williams <ralphbw@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Consider this;
Most all of the trails were once made to access mines in the
area. This would include H2H and Crown King. I have never been to
H2H but have seen the area, I have been up the Crown King trail.
If you look you can see that the trail was made by blasting the
side of the mountain out, the rocky area above the "ledge" would
have been filled in with "shot rock" and would have been
relatively smooth. The "shot rock" has since washed away.
These trails were made to be passable by heavily loaded wagons
probably pulled by 20 mules or horses, maybe oxen. Not too
tough...
Think about it.
There ain't nothing natural about any of them. Not condoning
stacking or condemning it...Ants build anthills, man builds roads
and buildings. Man is natural, ants are natural, the sun is a
nuclear reaction, a nuclear bomb is natural too.
Ralph
Roger Tomas wrote:
>
> Stu,
>
> My comments weren't directed at you - they were directed at everyone.
> I agree that the timbers didn't use to be there and I, too, consider
> them to *not* be part of the trail. (See, I have no specific prejudice
> against timber chuckers.) ;-)
>
> My point was that there is no absolute definition of what the natural
> state of some trail is. Most people (myself included) probably tend
> to think that a trail ought to be the way it was the first time they
> ran it. I remember what the Crown King trail was like when I first
> ran it so that's how I tend to think it should be. Someone who first
> ran it last week will think that the ledge - in its current form - is
> how the trail should be. Ultimately, there is now absolute correct
> state for any trail. Mother Nature makes sure of that.
>
> -Roger
>
> Stu Olson wrote:
> >
> > Well, as I am one who has admitted to throwing the rail road timbers off of
> > the side of the ledge, I guess the below message applies to me.
> >
> > In my simple defense, I will say that the first time I ran that trail, some
> > 3 years ago, there were NO rail road timbers stacked at the ledge. So, I
> > fixed the problem....I left the trail the same way I found it, 3 years ago.
> > I feel very confident that mother nature did not wash the timbers down the
> > trail and deposit them at the ledge. ;)
> >
> > So....to leave the trail as you found it....do we now require some time
> > reference to go buy? That sounds pretty anal.
> >
> > Stu....the self-confessed "timber chucker"!
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
44050 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:45pm
Subject: [FS] Scout dana 44's, detroits, and 3.73 gears
Price: $1300
Contact: bphinney1@msn.com
Front and rear Scout d44's from a '75 Scout II, complete. Front disc, rear drum. Rear has factory trac-loc. Two detroits and two 3.73 gear sets with about 1000 miles on each. Can email pictures if needed. Email or call me bphinney1@msn.com or 520-790-5389 evenings.
Bryce Phinney
44051 From: Gary MacLaren <gmaclaren@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:12pm
Subject: Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board - Judge Overturns 'Critical Habitat' of 2 Species
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Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board > Miscellaneous > Land Use Issues > Judge Overturns 'Critical Habitat' of 2 Species
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Crowdog
Wheeler
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Shingle Springs, CA
Member #2787
Posts: 465
Judge Overturns 'Critical Habitat' of 2 Species
Let's hope this is the start of a snowball.....
Crowdog
www.crowley-offroad.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judge Overturns 'Critical Habitat' of 2 Species
Environment: A new analysis of the economic effects of setting aside more than 500,000 acres to protect the threatened gnatcatcher and fairy shrimp is ordered.
February 26, 2002
By SEEMA MEHTA, TIMES STAFF WRITER
A federal judge in Los Angeles, acceding to a Bush administration request, Monday invalidated protection of several hundred thousand acres of land in Southern California deemed essential to the survival of two imperiled species.
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials have said the request is part of a broad reevaluation of "critical habitat" designations involving millions of acres of protected land, mainly in California.
Environmentalists fear the administration's action is the first step in a broad rollback of protections for rare plants and animals covered by the Endangered Species Act. "This is a huge issue because there are so many other critical habitat designations impacted," said William Snape, vice president of legal affairs for Defenders of Wildlife, in Washington, D.C. "I think it's upwards of 100 species whose habitats are hanging in the balance."
In his ruling Monday, U.S. District Judge
Stephen V. Wilson said the Fish and Wildlife Service must redo the economic analysis of the effects of designating more than half a million acres as critical habitat for the coastal California gnatcatcher, a tiny bird, and the San Diego fairy shrimp. Real estate developers, ranchers and farmers have been lobbying the Bush administration to make it easier and cheaper to build on critical habitat in a number of places around the country. In the Southern California case, the judge left open the question of whether existing protections would stay in place until a revised economic analysis and new habitat designations are completed in 2004.
Wilson said he will not rule on that issue until he receives additional written arguments from attorneys representing the federal wildlife agency and an environmental group. "To vacate the critical habitat in place would mean, for a period of time, there would be no critical habitat," Wilson said during a 45-minute hearing. "The court's concern is, how can there be some [protection] in the intervening period? ... There apparently is a movement to begin development of at least part of the land."
This is a key concern of environmentalists, who fear that nullifying existing rules would remove major hurdles for two huge developments-Rancho Mission Viejo's 14,000 homes and a toll road-and allow the destruction of sensitive habitat in southern Orange County.
One of the most controversial provisions of the Endangered Species Act, critical habitat is a category of protected land in which building and other activity can be limited or even barred to ensure the survival of rare plants and animals. The land at issue in Monday's hearing is covered with coastal sage scrub, where the threatened gnatcatcher nests, and dotted with seasonal pools that are home to the endangered fairy shrimp.
In 2000, the Fish and Wildlife Service designated 513,650 acres in Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego, San Bernardino and Riverside counties as critical habitat for the gnatcatcher, and 4,025 acres in Orange and San Diego counties for the fairy shrimp. Kristen Gustafson, the U.S. Justice Department attorney representing the Fish and Wildlife Service, said lifting the land protection would not affect the species. "The gnatcatcher and fairy shrimp will not suffer harm if the habitat were vacated," she said.
She said both creatures would be adequately protected by other sections of the Endangered Species Act. Andrew Wetzler, a lawyer who represented the Natural Resources Defense Council at the hearing, disagreed. "There's no clearer indication of the importance of critical habitat than the fact that Rancho Mission Viejo and the transportation corridor agencies are suing to overturn it," Wetzler said after the hearing. "We're obviously disappointed that the service once again failed to defend its own regulations," he
said. The administration's request to eliminate the designations coincides with a slew of lawsuits brought by developers and other landowners nationwide, challenging how the government conducted its financial analyses of the effect of designating critical habitat. Before designating habitat, the service is legally required to analyze the economic consequences for developers, property owners, cities and others who have an interest in the land. Until last year, nearly all those analyses had said creating critical habitat would have little to no economic effect. Developers and others have long argued that habitat designations were far costlier than the government estimated. One developer-funded study in California estimated that the gnatcatcher critical habitat alone would cost the state $5.5 billion in lost jobs, housing and property value over 20 years.
For many property owners, the designations amount to little more than lines on a map. But compliance can be difficult for landowners dependent on federal subsidies or permits-as many major developers and road builders are.
"This [ruling] is further confirmation of our belief that the law requires a real thorough economic analysis," said Rob Thornton, a lawyer representing the Building Industry Assn. of Southern California, the toll road builders and others.
The Fish and Wildlife Service agreed that a new economic analysis was needed, citing a federal appeals court ruling in May that struck down protection of stream-side habitat in New Mexico for another bird, the Southwestern willow flycatcher.
The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the process used to decide what lands to protect did not adequately analyze the financial effect on property owners and others who make a living from that protect millions of acres of land. the land.
Federal wildlife officials have said they were trying to be consistent with that ruling by reviewing up to 10 habitat designations.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...pe%2Dcalifornia
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02-26-2002 04:53 PM
Crowdog
Wheeler
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Shingle Springs, CA
Member #2787
Posts: 465
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Environmentalists fear the administration's action is the first step in a broad rollback of protections for rare plants and animals covered by the Endangered Species Act.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I remember correctly, the judicial branch and the executive branch are separate. How can this be the doing of any administration? Just the leftist media at it again....
Crowdog
__________________
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
Environmental Wacko News & more
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02-26-2002 04:55 PM
landuseorc
Newbie
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Aztec, NM
Member #9328
Posts: 84
I saw this earlier, and my first response is finally some common sense in all this. They are required to address economic impact, and it is something that has been pushed aside in the past with all the bullying from CBD and that ilk. Good to see a judge with some cojones.
__________________
Brad Ullrich
Off-Road.com Land Use Editor
www.off-road.com/land
home.off-road.com/~rockgarden
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02-26-2002 06:33 PM
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44052 From: bikiniride <bikiniride@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:27pm
Subject: JEEPZONE !!! My group..
Great site, keep up the good work.. If you have time take a look at
my Jeep & group at JEEPZONE...
44053 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:00pm
Subject: [FS] wanted,paddle tires for sandrail
Price: ?
Contact: weasel_ugs@hotmail.com
wanted,paddle tires,prefer mounted on 4 or 5 lug VW wheels but not mandatory.let me know condition and size. Don
Don Turner
44054 From: weasel_ugs <weaselugs@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:08pm
Subject: sorry last"wanted" went to list
sorry last wanted went to list,still trying to get the hang of the
classifieds section, Don
44055 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:34pm
Subject: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, March 9, 2002
Hello All,
Mike Acuna is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, March 9, 2002.
When: Saturday March 9, 2002
Where: Meet at the Texaco just past Florence Junction at 10:00am
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-6 hours
CB Channel: 4
We've always wanted to check out the Coke Ovens, but haven't yet.
We've been through Box Canyon up to Martinez Cabin and are pretty
sure we can find it. We have a GPS and a guide book too. If someone
signs up who wants to lead that would be cool too. We would like
to run Box Canyon to Coke Ovens.....then if there is still time
we would like to run Battleaxe out to AZ177.
The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some rocks and ledges in the road.
Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.
Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.
At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite spectacular.
Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low, there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway
This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a challenge to the novice or stock driver.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
44056 From: vpheiple <vpheiple@m...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 0:02am
Subject: 4x4 clubs
Do any of you know of any normal family oriented clubs, whose whole
purpose in life is not to tear up their Jeeps, but to enjoy a weekend
away from the city. Your site is very interesting, but seems to be
tailored more to the radical side of offroading, most of the messages
I have read are about modifications made to Jeeps and where to get
parts after you tear your Jeeps up. I do agree with many of the
points you bring up about people staying off of trails they don't
belong on, but like my fiance says "Big tires and lift kits are a
representation of a small male unit" I would equate this to driving
over large boulders too, even if you have to ramp both sides to get
it done. Don't get me wrong, I realize that most of you go offroad
because you love the challenge and I am sure it is a pure adrenlin
rush taking something you have built and being able to do something
with it that not many others can do. That's why there are so many
want to be's messing up your trails, they don't see that they are
ruining the trail, just that they made it to the top. It is great
that your club see's the benefits of keeping what you have,where I
come from so much of the land is closed to 4x4's, you are quite lucky
to have the opportunity get off the road.
Best Regards
Vern Heiple
p.s. Having to clean up other peoples messes is a part of life
because most people only care about themselves and whats good for
them at the time.
44057 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:51am
Subject: Re: 4x4 clubs
Don't let the door hit you in the ***....
----- Original Message -----
From: "vpheiple" <vpheiple@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:02 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] 4x4 clubs
>... but like my fiance says "Big tires and lift kits are a
> representation of a small male unit" I would equate this to driving
> over large boulders too, even if you have to ramp both sides to get
> it done. >
> Vern Heiple
>
>
44058 From: Neal Han**** <azredrocker@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:59am
Subject: Re: 4x4 clubs
Here, here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DougB wrote:
Don't let the door hit you in the ***....
----- Original Message -----
From: "vpheiple"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:02 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] 4x4 clubs
>... but like my fiance says "Big tires and lift kits are a
> representation of a small male unit" I would equate this to driving
> over large boulders too, even if you have to ramp both sides to get
> it done. >
> Vern Heiple
>
>
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44059 From: <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 0:25am
Subject: Re: 4x4 clubs
Why is your fiance concerned with the size of the groups units? If you dont like the club and want to leave then do so...dont be throwing insults on your way!
Sharky