blooddrive
01-04-2004, 12:18 PM
43935-43959
43935 From: <JNB4PLS@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Les, did you get out and unstack the ledge? TWo weeks ago when I went up to
CK I found the same thing. We got out and threw everything that was loose off
the side of the hill. When we got around the corner it sure was fun to look
down and watch the full size trucks that were coming up behind us <Evil Grin>
Best Regards,
John Butler
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
43936 From: swaders7 <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:29am
Subject: Schnebly Hill Road
Hey fellow Jeepers!!
I just wanted to vent a little. I went up to Sedona on Saturday with
my girl. Did some sight seeing and then headed up Schnebly Hill.
It's not a hard trail, just real bumpy. Anyways we got up to the 4
mile mark and they had it closed off. Oh well I thought, no biggie,
we'll just head back down. Well after I stopped at the 3 mile mark
with no one around I proposed to my girl and it was all happy times
for us both. After standing around for a little bit we headed back
down and decided to go home. Well, about 1/2 mile after heading down
we started hearing a weird clanking sound under the hood. So I
pulled to the side and was checking it out. I had no clue what it
was so I got out my manual and we both got under the jeep to see if
we could identify it. The whole time I'm under the jeep 4 "pink-
jeepers" drive by. None of them even said a simple hello, can i help
you, can i call for help, nothing....the onbly word that came out of
one of the "pink-jeepers" mouths was "bummer" as she drove quickly
past. Everyone else that drove by asked if I needed help or if there
was anything they could do. I just don't know what's up with
those "pinkies". I actually didn't have a problem with my jeep, some
fastener came loose from holding a breather hose upo and it was
clanking against one of my tie-rods. I just pushed it back in place
and taped it up until I could get another fastener. Thanks everyone
for listening to me vent and I hope that maybe...just maybe a "pink-
jeeper" would somehow read this and see our concerns with thier
attitudes.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
43937 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:32am
Subject: [FS] forsale
Price:
Contact:
Michaelk
43938 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:53am
Subject: RE: AArrrgg!! discount tire problem!!!
Tim,
I can see no problem with doing that in 4WD on the trail. I did it for a year without any adverse affects that I can determine. I believe it is safe to say that folks with part time 4WD transfer cases have been doing it for many, many years.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Naylor [mailto:tnaylorsprint@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:18 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; aphrodsyak@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] AArrrgg!! discount tire problem!!!
Joe’s answer brings up a good question for me. I recently bought a set of used 36 inch Swampers from a friend. Four have about 50% tread left, but the spare is new. I was thinking of buying one more new one and running the new ones on the rear and the old ones on the front of my 97 TJ 5 spd manual. Do you think the tire size difference would cause a problem with my transfer case while in 4wd?
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:23 PM
To: aphrodsyak@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] AArrrgg!! discount tire problem!!!
Eric,
In this case; the Discount employee did the right thing. You see; here's the problem:
If you have an all wheel drive vehicle, there is a potential for the differential tire diameter front to rear to cause binding in the transfer case assembly which could, in a worst-case scenario, result in damage to the vehicle.
I drive an all wheel drive, full time 4 wheel drive vehicle (The land cruiser) and the owner's manual specifically states that you MUST change all 4 tires at once or risk voiding your warranty.
If I was the employee at Discount tire, I would have made you sign and notarize a statement saying that the tire I sold you wouldn't be used on the vehicle in question.
You see Eric, a reasonable person would believe that you WOULD be using the spare on the all wheel drive vehicle, and because of this, REGARDLESS of what you said under the duress of the moment, Discount could be held liable for any damage caused to the vehicle.
If you were recently sued for picking your nose in public, you would probably be somewhat hesitant to pick it in public again... eh? Discount tire gets sued for damage to an all wheel drive vehicle and they send a notice out not to put mismatched tires on all wheel drive vehicles. I think this makes perfect sense and I don't believe that it is anything to get upset over.
You ask what the hell the world is coming to?
Can you spell LAWSUIT son?
It is exactly the same reason your to-go cup of coffee has a CAUTION HOT warning label on it and the fan shroud on your Jeep says CAUTION; DO NOT STICK YOUR FINGERS IN THE MOVING BLADE.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: aphrodsyak@aol.com [mailto:aphrodsyak@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:05 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] AArrrgg!! discount tire problem!!!
ok so everyone as well as I have really never had anything bad to say about discount tire.
TODAY!!! this all changes. I take the g-friends jeep Grand in to get two fronts. ( too much weight and drives it like a porsche) so the right front is showing ALOT of steel.
We order the tires and leave to go eat. Phone call from discount 20 min later WOW THEY ARE FAST!! NO!!!
Due to the fact that the jeep is all whell drive they were instructed (after what was quoted as a recent payout for damages) THAT aLL wHEEL DRIVE VEHICLE MUST BUY ALL FOUR TIRES AT THE SAME TIME. Further more if six months down the road you have a flat and it cant be replaced you must replace all four. So atthe risk of telling this guy what an idiot he was and telling him that if we left the parking lot and the tire blew and we hit someone or something happended to us his company would SEEEE A LARGE PAYOUT BELEIVE ME!! he tells me sorry thats the dealers issue not ours. hmm I am tired and have no time SO.......
I tell him since the spare has been blown out that I want to just buy one for the spare and have him throw it in the back so I can have one when the tire goes.
HE TELLS ME HE CANT, becuase I will use it on the car, DUH!!!! my exact words. He tells me he doesnt need my verbal abuse. I ask him how safe the tire is that is on the car and if he would drive on it. ( he should have seen this coming) He says NO! its done. So I ask him If him and his company want to take the liability ( always a good word ) of letting me leave with not only a tire that they refuse to replace but also without a spare, which they refuse to supply us, in the event it blows.
I am telling him about how stupid it sounds not to put a spare on your car because it is allwheel drive. So To all of you with all wheel drive this is the BS you can expect now from these big companies.
Finally the guy told me he would sell me a spare if I promised not to put it on. So I said Yes and then HOW STUPID DOES THAT SOUND>
anyhow I now am at home getting ready to change out the tire and then drive to a different Tire store and get another SPAre that I will come home and also install.
WHAT IN THE HE:LL IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?? the average suite happy american can screw it up for alot of people.
ERIC
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43939 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:53am
Subject: RE: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
For those of you that have asked me why I don't post the trail directions
for the runs that are written-up on my web site.....well, now you know why I
don't. ;)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: paparoach85251 [mailto:lespaparoach@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:49 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
It is a shame when less experienced drivers in less capable vehicles
vandalize our beautiful trails. On our way to Crown King on Sunday we
noticed that "The ledge" as it was formerly known should be
renamed "The ramp" because so many rocks had been stcked up in front
of it. This was so clowns like the guy in the stock Isuzu rodeo in
front of us could make it over. It took all the fun out of the one
true obstacle on that scenic trail.
I have to say that I agree with this guys rant. If your rig isn't
ready for a particular trail, then stay off it until it is.
Just my $.02!
Les
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Siade, Randy" <randy.siade@u...> wrote:
> This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off about
H2H.
> Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
>
>
> JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
> Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
> The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
>
> Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and left
> ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to piss
> and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail
stacking
> (and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the
trail,
> D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and
put
> up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
>
> Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are). If
> you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you are
> stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND
IT!
> It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
>
> They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons
of
> rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!" Oh
> and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I
made
> it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front
and
> rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
>
> Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
> THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a
go!
>
> Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
> they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
> bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because they
> look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a
trail
> run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
>
> For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
> Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
> keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
> wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
> from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for parts)
> and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
> chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
> around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the goodies
> hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
> holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep your
> voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or
maybe.....juuuuuust
> maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
> eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be a
> snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
> another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
> way...............
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43940 From: <aphrodsyak@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Sounds like we may have found the only really fun thing on Crown King. Unstacking the ledge and watching the fun. I am going to just hang up on it and burn out until there are huge pits and then they wont be able to fill them in. seriously though. CK trail has never been anyting more than a 2.0 at best. ( probably with snow on it) and alot of people around the valey know it because they say a stock rig can do it so it is natural that the one obstical on the trail would be ramped up.
CAN WE AGREE that true four wheelers are not the ones running Crown King for a CHALLENGE??? let let them have there dusty 4 hour ride we have lots of stuff they will never be able to get to so they can stack rocks. and as far as ranting.
PLEASE GUYS if you have to stack rocks or modify trails in any way please remember to return them to the way you found them, or if you want evn more difficult,
Just like I tell the KIDS I DONT CARE IF ITS NOT YOURS , PICK IT UP!!, PUT IT BACK, what ever applies.
EVRYONE will thank everyone that way.. YAAAAAAAAHHH..
ERIC ( signed post ) want to make sure it gets read.
43941 From: dionbozman <amstaff@e...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:37am
Subject: FREE STUFF
Got some stuff I'm looking to get rid of if anyone's interested.
-- 3.55 ring and pinion and open carrier for reverse cut Dana 30.
-- Stock YJ Sahara center console. Green. Good condition.
-- Diamond plate side steps for extended cab pickup. Came off 2001
Chevy 2500HD, but will likely fit any extended cab pickup.
All FREE. First come, first serve. E-mail me at
amstaff@e... or call 480.460.0399
Di
43942 From: <aphrodsyak@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:39am
Subject: H2H bypass Closuer <--(french)
Lets do It!!!! I would much rather snap axles than take a bypass, as would the people I whell with. ( unfortunately I think we made that aparent when we did H2H. ) HAHAHA I really don't Remember a by pass when we were there, But I would love to make it impassable.
ERIC
43943 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:07am
Subject: RE: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
John,
I hit the ledge on one trip, immediately after some sand buggies were
licking their wounds on the uphill side, and tossed all the railroad timbers
off the side of the mountain, and then climbed over it. ;) [insert evil
laugh here]
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JNB4PLS@a... [mailto:JNB4PLS@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:12 AM
To: lespaparoach@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Les, did you get out and unstack the ledge? TWo weeks ago when I went up to
CK I found the same thing. We got out and threw everything that was loose
off
the side of the hill. When we got around the corner it sure was fun to look
down and watch the full size trucks that were coming up behind us <Evil
Grin>
Best Regards,
John Butler
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43944 From: swaders7 <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:54am
Subject: hopfully...
I'm planning on doing some wheelin' today but haven't done a lot in
the area. I'm planning on taking a friend today and would like
somewhere as close to the Scottsdale area as possible. Does anyone
know of some good areas within an hour of here that a stock 97 TJ
with 31" could go? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
43945 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:59am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with a "baby seat" are you?
----- Original Message -----
From: Siade, Randy
To: 'azvjc'
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off about H2H.
Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and left
ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to piss
and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail stacking
(and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the trail,
D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and put
up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are). If
you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you are
stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND IT!
It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons of
rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!" Oh
and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I made
it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front and
rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a go!
Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because they
look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a trail
run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for parts)
and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the goodies
hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep your
voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or maybe.....juuuuuust
maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be a
snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
way...............
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43946 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:00am
Subject: Re: hopfully...
Wherever you go stack a lot of rocks so this board will have something to talk about!
;->
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: swaders7
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:54 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] hopfully...
I'm planning on doing some wheelin' today but haven't done a lot in
the area. I'm planning on taking a friend today and would like
somewhere as close to the Scottsdale area as possible. Does anyone
know of some good areas within an hour of here that a stock 97 TJ
with 31" could go? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43947 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:00am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Randy,
What prompted the sudden message? Did you just run it this weekend? Or did
some damned magazine post directions to it (like Anihilator was done once)
and then you checked it out?
Just curious. I know you have run it before. I'm just curious what prompted
the message at this time. A friend of mine ran it about 3 years ago and said
it was REALLY hard. He and I walked it about a year and a half to 2 years
ago and he commented that it had already gotten a lot easier looking since he
ran it. I can't even imagine what it must look like now. I think I am going
to have to plan a trip on H2H and clear it as I go. I don't mind removing
tons of rocks! Might be the thing to do!!! Now we can plan trail cleanups
AND trail revamps!
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
43948 From: pebble007 <jawooten@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:01am
Subject: Re: H2H bypass Closuer <--(french)
Where these people are failing is in a basic understanding of our
sport. I (we) spend the money, the time, and the effort to make our
rigs and ourselves capable of doing these trails. We are constantly
pushing the limits of our vehicles and driving skills in order to
find the the things that we can improve/modify in order to make it up
the trail as "clean" as possible. The way that I am using the word
clean comes from rock climbing. It means to make it from the bottom
of the route to the top of the route with no falls or tension on the
rope. For us it is to make it up trail with no assitance from nature
(stacking rocks, blazing bypasses). I feel (jmho) that the guy who
makes it up a run with no winch has made a cleaner run than the guy
who needed one, not to say the winch is bad just not as clean.
I have yet to run anything over a 3.5. I understand my vehicle's
limitations and my own. I will push the envelope but i have this
wonderful feature in my JEEP called REVERSE and I am not afraid to
use it.
Well, just thought I would throw out my opinion.
Josh
99 TJ -HOMER-
--- In az_vjc@y..., aphrodsyak@a... wrote:
>
> Lets do It!!!! I would much rather snap axles than take a bypass,
as would
> the people I whell with. ( unfortunately I think we made that
aparent when
> we did H2H. ) HAHAHA I really don't Remember a by pass when we
were there,
> But I would love to make it impassable.
>
> ERIC
43949 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:02am
Subject: RE: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Actually I think the point here is do trails your rig is set up to do and if you have to stack rocks the unstack them when you are done. Last is PLEASE for the sake of our hobby STAY ON THE TRAIL AND DO NOT MAKE BYPASS.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Hill [mailto:brian@alacartephoto.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:00 AM
To: 'azvjc'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with a "baby seat" are you?
----- Original Message -----
From: Siade, Randy
To: 'azvjc'
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off about H2H.
Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and left
ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to piss
and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail stacking
(and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the trail,
D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and put
up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are). If
you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you are
stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND IT!
It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons of
rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!" Oh
and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I made
it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front and
rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a go!
Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because they
look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a trail
run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for parts)
and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the goodies
hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep your
voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or maybe.....juuuuuust
maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be a
snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
way...............
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43950 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:05am
Subject: Re: Schnebly Hill Road
Congratulations!? I trust she said yes!
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: swaders7
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Schnebly Hill Road
Hey fellow Jeepers!!
I just wanted to vent a little. I went up to Sedona on Saturday with
my girl. Did some sight seeing and then headed up Schnebly Hill.
It's not a hard trail, just real bumpy. Anyways we got up to the 4
mile mark and they had it closed off. Oh well I thought, no biggie,
we'll just head back down. Well after I stopped at the 3 mile mark
with no one around I proposed to my girl and it was all happy times
for us both. After standing around for a little bit we headed back
down and decided to go home. Well, about 1/2 mile after heading down
we started hearing a weird clanking sound under the hood. So I
pulled to the side and was checking it out. I had no clue what it
was so I got out my manual and we both got under the jeep to see if
we could identify it. The whole time I'm under the jeep 4 "pink-
jeepers" drive by. None of them even said a simple hello, can i help
you, can i call for help, nothing....the onbly word that came out of
one of the "pink-jeepers" mouths was "bummer" as she drove quickly
past. Everyone else that drove by asked if I needed help or if there
was anything they could do. I just don't know what's up with
those "pinkies". I actually didn't have a problem with my jeep, some
fastener came loose from holding a breather hose upo and it was
clanking against one of my tie-rods. I just pushed it back in place
and taped it up until I could get another fastener. Thanks everyone
for listening to me vent and I hope that maybe...just maybe a "pink-
jeeper" would somehow read this and see our concerns with thier
attitudes.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43951 From: Jim Hughes <jhughes@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:03am
Subject: Re: hopfully...
Try FR42 out by Bartlett Lake
>>> "swaders7" <swaders7@y...> 02/26/02 10:54AM >>>
I'm planning on doing some wheelin' today but haven't done a lot in
the area. I'm planning on taking a friend today and would like
somewhere as close to the Scottsdale area as possible. Does anyone
know of some good areas within an hour of here that a stock 97 TJ
with 31" could go? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43952 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:05am
Subject: RE: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
A fellow hard core rock crawler friend of mine just ran it and posted this
and I just forward it along.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Eller [mailto:jay@t...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:00 AM
Cc: 'azvjc'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Randy,
What prompted the sudden message? Did you just run it this weekend? Or did
some damned magazine post directions to it (like Anihilator was done once)
and then you checked it out?
Just curious. I know you have run it before. I'm just curious what
prompted
the message at this time. A friend of mine ran it about 3 years ago and
said
it was REALLY hard. He and I walked it about a year and a half to 2 years
ago and he commented that it had already gotten a lot easier looking since
he
ran it. I can't even imagine what it must look like now. I think I am
going
to have to plan a trip on H2H and clear it as I go. I don't mind removing
tons of rocks! Might be the thing to do!!! Now we can plan trail cleanups
AND trail revamps!
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43953 From: jaylalib <jaylalib@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:05am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Now hold on a minute, I have a car seat in mine!!!
Just kidding...I couldn't resist
Jason
99' TJ with no bead locks 4.5" lift and 35" MTR's though
www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with
a "baby seat" are you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Siade, Randy
> To: 'azvjc'
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
>
>
> This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off
about H2H.
> Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
>
>
> JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
> Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
> The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
>
> Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and
left
> ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to
piss
> and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail
stacking
> (and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the
trail,
> D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and
put
> up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
>
> Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are).
If
> you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you
are
> stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND
IT!
> It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
>
> They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons
of
> rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!"
Oh
> and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I
made
> it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front
and
> rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
>
> Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
> THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a
go!
>
> Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
> they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
> bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because
they
> look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a
trail
> run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
>
> For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
> Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
> keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
> wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
> from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for
parts)
> and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
> chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
> around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the
goodies
> hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
> holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep
your
> voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or
maybe.....juuuuuust
> maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
> eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be
a
> snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
> another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
> way...............
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43954 From: pebble007 <jawooten@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:06am
Subject: Re: Schnebly Hill Road
Congrats. You could get married in the jeep:~p
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> Congratulations!? I trust she said yes!
>
> Brian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: swaders7
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:29 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Schnebly Hill Road
>
>
> Hey fellow Jeepers!!
>
> I just wanted to vent a little. I went up to Sedona on Saturday
with
> my girl. Did some sight seeing and then headed up Schnebly
Hill.
> It's not a hard trail, just real bumpy. Anyways we got up to the
4
> mile mark and they had it closed off. Oh well I thought, no
biggie,
> we'll just head back down. Well after I stopped at the 3 mile
mark
> with no one around I proposed to my girl and it was all happy
times
> for us both. After standing around for a little bit we headed
back
> down and decided to go home. Well, about 1/2 mile after heading
down
> we started hearing a weird clanking sound under the hood. So I
> pulled to the side and was checking it out. I had no clue what
it
> was so I got out my manual and we both got under the jeep to see
if
> we could identify it. The whole time I'm under the jeep 4 "pink-
> jeepers" drive by. None of them even said a simple hello, can i
help
> you, can i call for help, nothing....the onbly word that came out
of
> one of the "pink-jeepers" mouths was "bummer" as she drove
quickly
> past. Everyone else that drove by asked if I needed help or if
there
> was anything they could do. I just don't know what's up with
> those "pinkies". I actually didn't have a problem with my jeep,
some
> fastener came loose from holding a breather hose upo and it was
> clanking against one of my tie-rods. I just pushed it back in
place
> and taped it up until I could get another fastener. Thanks
everyone
> for listening to me vent and I hope that maybe...just maybe
a "pink-
> jeeper" would somehow read this and see our concerns with thier
> attitudes.
>
> ~Wade
> 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43955 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:10am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
There ya go Randy. Said this way sounds so much better. I'm sure this needs to be repeated frequently as we have many new members coming all the time.
----- Original Message -----
From: Siade, Randy
To: 'Brian Hill' ; 'azvjc'
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Actually I think the point here is do trails your rig is set up to do and if you have to stack rocks the unstack them when you are done. Last is PLEASE for the sake of our hobby STAY ON THE TRAIL AND DO NOT MAKE BYPASS.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Hill [mailto:brian@alacartephoto.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:00 AM
To: 'azvjc'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with a "baby seat" are you?
----- Original Message -----
From: Siade, Randy
To: 'azvjc'
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off about H2H.
Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and left
ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to piss
and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail stacking
(and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the trail,
D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and put
up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are). If
you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you are
stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND IT!
It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons of
rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!" Oh
and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I made
it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front and
rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a go!
Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because they
look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a trail
run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for parts)
and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the goodies
hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep your
voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or maybe.....juuuuuust
maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be a
snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
way...............
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43956 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Whew! I though I might be the only one! :->
----- Original Message -----
From: jaylalib
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Now hold on a minute, I have a car seat in mine!!!
Just kidding...I couldn't resist
Jason
99' TJ with no bead locks 4.5" lift and 35" MTR's though
www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with
a "baby seat" are you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Siade, Randy
> To: 'azvjc'
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
>
>
> This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off
about H2H.
> Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
>
>
> JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
> Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
> The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
>
> Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and
left
> ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to
piss
> and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail
stacking
> (and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the
trail,
> D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and
put
> up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
>
> Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are).
If
> you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you
are
> stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND
IT!
> It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
>
> They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons
of
> rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!"
Oh
> and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I
made
> it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front
and
> rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
>
> Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
> THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a
go!
>
> Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
> they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
> bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because
they
> look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a
trail
> run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
>
> For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
> Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
> keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
> wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
> from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for
parts)
> and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
> chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
> around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the
goodies
> hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
> holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep
your
> voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or
maybe.....juuuuuust
> maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
> eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be
a
> snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
> another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
> way...............
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43957 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:59am
Subject: good sound in a jeep?
Hi Guys,
Not sure if this is considered OT or not or how much I'll get burnt for
asking, but has anyone out there got decent sound in their ride? I'm
looking at putting in an audio system, I've already got a source and happy
to spend up to around $500 on an amp, some speakers and a sub.
I previously had rear speakers only and a small sub in the rear. I've been
kicking around rec.cars.audio for a little while and it seems that
everybody says front speakers are the way to go. Is this true or what? I
wasn't unhappy with rears only, but do you really get better sound from fronts?
What is the best way to get good sound, are people mounting speakers up
front? Where? In the doors or down by the feet? Who is using separate
speakers up front, and if so where are you mounting them? What about rears?
I'm planning on going with a second hand amp, probably a 4 channel
75w. I'm thinking 6" combination speakers in the doors, driven by a
channel each and then bridging the remaining 2 channels to run the sub
off. A couple of small rears could be run off the head unit. Is this
going to give me good sound that I can boogey to at 60mph with no roof? Do
I need more wattage? Do I need different speakers up front? Somebody help!
Shaun
South Korea
43958 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:12am
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
First, let me say that this is not intended to be a flame. I only
intend to offer some different perspective.
There was a time when "the ledge" wasn't a ledge. I remember when it
wasn't more than just a hump in the ground. But, over time, Mother
Nature helped erode that part of the trail and people spinning tires
further eroded it until it became somewhat of a challenge. In addition,
people have created bypasses that are actually harder than the main trail
(bypasses are usually easier). So, what has happened is that people have
attempted to make an easy trail harder. The Crown King trail use to be
easily traveled in a stock rig but this is becoming less true.
This is where I'm torn. Trail challenges usually diminish over time so
I certainly welcome the idea of increasing challenge. For some reason,
it seems ok if Mother Nature changes the difficulty of a trail but it's
not ok if people do it. In any case, if we complain about people making
the hard trails easy, then we shouldn't we let the easy trails remain easy
for those folks that aren't set up for the hard trails? Otherwise, people
who aren't set up to run the hard trails will do so anyways resorting to
rock stacking and other freeway building tactics.
I think I'd be content letting the ledge be stacked and letting the Crown
King trail remain easy.
All IMHO. Comments?
-Roger
> It is a shame when less experienced drivers in less capable vehicles
> vandalize our beautiful trails. On our way to Crown King on Sunday we
> noticed that "The ledge" as it was formerly known should be
> renamed "The ramp" because so many rocks had been stcked up in front
> of it. This was so clowns like the guy in the stock Isuzu rodeo in
> front of us could make it over. It took all the fun out of the one
> true obstacle on that scenic trail.
> I have to say that I agree with this guys rant. If your rig isn't
> ready for a particular trail, then stay off it until it is.
> Just my $.02!
>
> Les
43959 From: d_hargadine <rocncj7@d...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:15am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
It's ok to have a baby seat as long as it has 5 point seat belts in
it!! That gives Rock "Crawler" a whole new meaning!! LOL!!
Daron
--- In az_vjc@y..., "jaylalib" <jaylalib@h...> wrote:
> Now hold on a minute, I have a car seat in mine!!!
>
> Just kidding...I couldn't resist
>
> Jason
> 99' TJ with no bead locks 4.5" lift and 35" MTR's though
>
> www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> > You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters"
with
> a "baby seat" are you?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Siade, Randy
> > To: 'azvjc'
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
> >
> >
> > This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off
> about H2H.
> > Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
> >
> >
> > JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep,
JC
> > Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another
trail.
> > The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The
Highway."
> >
> > Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and
> left
> > ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to
> piss
> > and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail
> stacking
> > (and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the
> trail,
> > D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them
and
> put
> > up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
> >
> > Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you
are).
> If
> > you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you
> are
> > stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU
FOUND
> IT!
> > It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
> >
> > They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move
tons
> of
> > rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it
too!"
> Oh
> > and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!"
I
> made
> > it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open
front
> and
> > rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
> >
> > Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and
stack....HELL,
> > THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a
> go!
> >
> > Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor
do
> > they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They
just
> > bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because
> they
> > look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a
> trail
> > run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby
seat.
> >
> > For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
> > Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is
to
> > keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go
to "4-
> > wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
> > from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for
> parts)
> > and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
> > chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a
look
> > around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the
> goodies
> > hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
> > holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep
> your
> > voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or
> maybe.....juuuuuust
> > maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the
land
> > eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only
be
> a
> > snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
> > another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
> > way...............
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43935 From: <JNB4PLS@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Les, did you get out and unstack the ledge? TWo weeks ago when I went up to
CK I found the same thing. We got out and threw everything that was loose off
the side of the hill. When we got around the corner it sure was fun to look
down and watch the full size trucks that were coming up behind us <Evil Grin>
Best Regards,
John Butler
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
43936 From: swaders7 <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:29am
Subject: Schnebly Hill Road
Hey fellow Jeepers!!
I just wanted to vent a little. I went up to Sedona on Saturday with
my girl. Did some sight seeing and then headed up Schnebly Hill.
It's not a hard trail, just real bumpy. Anyways we got up to the 4
mile mark and they had it closed off. Oh well I thought, no biggie,
we'll just head back down. Well after I stopped at the 3 mile mark
with no one around I proposed to my girl and it was all happy times
for us both. After standing around for a little bit we headed back
down and decided to go home. Well, about 1/2 mile after heading down
we started hearing a weird clanking sound under the hood. So I
pulled to the side and was checking it out. I had no clue what it
was so I got out my manual and we both got under the jeep to see if
we could identify it. The whole time I'm under the jeep 4 "pink-
jeepers" drive by. None of them even said a simple hello, can i help
you, can i call for help, nothing....the onbly word that came out of
one of the "pink-jeepers" mouths was "bummer" as she drove quickly
past. Everyone else that drove by asked if I needed help or if there
was anything they could do. I just don't know what's up with
those "pinkies". I actually didn't have a problem with my jeep, some
fastener came loose from holding a breather hose upo and it was
clanking against one of my tie-rods. I just pushed it back in place
and taped it up until I could get another fastener. Thanks everyone
for listening to me vent and I hope that maybe...just maybe a "pink-
jeeper" would somehow read this and see our concerns with thier
attitudes.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
43937 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:32am
Subject: [FS] forsale
Price:
Contact:
Michaelk
43938 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:53am
Subject: RE: AArrrgg!! discount tire problem!!!
Tim,
I can see no problem with doing that in 4WD on the trail. I did it for a year without any adverse affects that I can determine. I believe it is safe to say that folks with part time 4WD transfer cases have been doing it for many, many years.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Naylor [mailto:tnaylorsprint@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:18 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; aphrodsyak@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] AArrrgg!! discount tire problem!!!
Joe’s answer brings up a good question for me. I recently bought a set of used 36 inch Swampers from a friend. Four have about 50% tread left, but the spare is new. I was thinking of buying one more new one and running the new ones on the rear and the old ones on the front of my 97 TJ 5 spd manual. Do you think the tire size difference would cause a problem with my transfer case while in 4wd?
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:23 PM
To: aphrodsyak@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] AArrrgg!! discount tire problem!!!
Eric,
In this case; the Discount employee did the right thing. You see; here's the problem:
If you have an all wheel drive vehicle, there is a potential for the differential tire diameter front to rear to cause binding in the transfer case assembly which could, in a worst-case scenario, result in damage to the vehicle.
I drive an all wheel drive, full time 4 wheel drive vehicle (The land cruiser) and the owner's manual specifically states that you MUST change all 4 tires at once or risk voiding your warranty.
If I was the employee at Discount tire, I would have made you sign and notarize a statement saying that the tire I sold you wouldn't be used on the vehicle in question.
You see Eric, a reasonable person would believe that you WOULD be using the spare on the all wheel drive vehicle, and because of this, REGARDLESS of what you said under the duress of the moment, Discount could be held liable for any damage caused to the vehicle.
If you were recently sued for picking your nose in public, you would probably be somewhat hesitant to pick it in public again... eh? Discount tire gets sued for damage to an all wheel drive vehicle and they send a notice out not to put mismatched tires on all wheel drive vehicles. I think this makes perfect sense and I don't believe that it is anything to get upset over.
You ask what the hell the world is coming to?
Can you spell LAWSUIT son?
It is exactly the same reason your to-go cup of coffee has a CAUTION HOT warning label on it and the fan shroud on your Jeep says CAUTION; DO NOT STICK YOUR FINGERS IN THE MOVING BLADE.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: aphrodsyak@aol.com [mailto:aphrodsyak@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:05 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] AArrrgg!! discount tire problem!!!
ok so everyone as well as I have really never had anything bad to say about discount tire.
TODAY!!! this all changes. I take the g-friends jeep Grand in to get two fronts. ( too much weight and drives it like a porsche) so the right front is showing ALOT of steel.
We order the tires and leave to go eat. Phone call from discount 20 min later WOW THEY ARE FAST!! NO!!!
Due to the fact that the jeep is all whell drive they were instructed (after what was quoted as a recent payout for damages) THAT aLL wHEEL DRIVE VEHICLE MUST BUY ALL FOUR TIRES AT THE SAME TIME. Further more if six months down the road you have a flat and it cant be replaced you must replace all four. So atthe risk of telling this guy what an idiot he was and telling him that if we left the parking lot and the tire blew and we hit someone or something happended to us his company would SEEEE A LARGE PAYOUT BELEIVE ME!! he tells me sorry thats the dealers issue not ours. hmm I am tired and have no time SO.......
I tell him since the spare has been blown out that I want to just buy one for the spare and have him throw it in the back so I can have one when the tire goes.
HE TELLS ME HE CANT, becuase I will use it on the car, DUH!!!! my exact words. He tells me he doesnt need my verbal abuse. I ask him how safe the tire is that is on the car and if he would drive on it. ( he should have seen this coming) He says NO! its done. So I ask him If him and his company want to take the liability ( always a good word ) of letting me leave with not only a tire that they refuse to replace but also without a spare, which they refuse to supply us, in the event it blows.
I am telling him about how stupid it sounds not to put a spare on your car because it is allwheel drive. So To all of you with all wheel drive this is the BS you can expect now from these big companies.
Finally the guy told me he would sell me a spare if I promised not to put it on. So I said Yes and then HOW STUPID DOES THAT SOUND>
anyhow I now am at home getting ready to change out the tire and then drive to a different Tire store and get another SPAre that I will come home and also install.
WHAT IN THE HE:LL IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?? the average suite happy american can screw it up for alot of people.
ERIC
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43939 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:53am
Subject: RE: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
For those of you that have asked me why I don't post the trail directions
for the runs that are written-up on my web site.....well, now you know why I
don't. ;)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: paparoach85251 [mailto:lespaparoach@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:49 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
It is a shame when less experienced drivers in less capable vehicles
vandalize our beautiful trails. On our way to Crown King on Sunday we
noticed that "The ledge" as it was formerly known should be
renamed "The ramp" because so many rocks had been stcked up in front
of it. This was so clowns like the guy in the stock Isuzu rodeo in
front of us could make it over. It took all the fun out of the one
true obstacle on that scenic trail.
I have to say that I agree with this guys rant. If your rig isn't
ready for a particular trail, then stay off it until it is.
Just my $.02!
Les
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Siade, Randy" <randy.siade@u...> wrote:
> This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off about
H2H.
> Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
>
>
> JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
> Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
> The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
>
> Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and left
> ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to piss
> and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail
stacking
> (and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the
trail,
> D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and
put
> up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
>
> Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are). If
> you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you are
> stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND
IT!
> It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
>
> They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons
of
> rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!" Oh
> and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I
made
> it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front
and
> rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
>
> Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
> THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a
go!
>
> Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
> they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
> bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because they
> look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a
trail
> run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
>
> For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
> Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
> keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
> wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
> from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for parts)
> and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
> chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
> around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the goodies
> hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
> holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep your
> voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or
maybe.....juuuuuust
> maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
> eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be a
> snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
> another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
> way...............
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43940 From: <aphrodsyak@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Sounds like we may have found the only really fun thing on Crown King. Unstacking the ledge and watching the fun. I am going to just hang up on it and burn out until there are huge pits and then they wont be able to fill them in. seriously though. CK trail has never been anyting more than a 2.0 at best. ( probably with snow on it) and alot of people around the valey know it because they say a stock rig can do it so it is natural that the one obstical on the trail would be ramped up.
CAN WE AGREE that true four wheelers are not the ones running Crown King for a CHALLENGE??? let let them have there dusty 4 hour ride we have lots of stuff they will never be able to get to so they can stack rocks. and as far as ranting.
PLEASE GUYS if you have to stack rocks or modify trails in any way please remember to return them to the way you found them, or if you want evn more difficult,
Just like I tell the KIDS I DONT CARE IF ITS NOT YOURS , PICK IT UP!!, PUT IT BACK, what ever applies.
EVRYONE will thank everyone that way.. YAAAAAAAAHHH..
ERIC ( signed post ) want to make sure it gets read.
43941 From: dionbozman <amstaff@e...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:37am
Subject: FREE STUFF
Got some stuff I'm looking to get rid of if anyone's interested.
-- 3.55 ring and pinion and open carrier for reverse cut Dana 30.
-- Stock YJ Sahara center console. Green. Good condition.
-- Diamond plate side steps for extended cab pickup. Came off 2001
Chevy 2500HD, but will likely fit any extended cab pickup.
All FREE. First come, first serve. E-mail me at
amstaff@e... or call 480.460.0399
Di
43942 From: <aphrodsyak@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:39am
Subject: H2H bypass Closuer <--(french)
Lets do It!!!! I would much rather snap axles than take a bypass, as would the people I whell with. ( unfortunately I think we made that aparent when we did H2H. ) HAHAHA I really don't Remember a by pass when we were there, But I would love to make it impassable.
ERIC
43943 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:07am
Subject: RE: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
John,
I hit the ledge on one trip, immediately after some sand buggies were
licking their wounds on the uphill side, and tossed all the railroad timbers
off the side of the mountain, and then climbed over it. ;) [insert evil
laugh here]
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JNB4PLS@a... [mailto:JNB4PLS@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:12 AM
To: lespaparoach@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Les, did you get out and unstack the ledge? TWo weeks ago when I went up to
CK I found the same thing. We got out and threw everything that was loose
off
the side of the hill. When we got around the corner it sure was fun to look
down and watch the full size trucks that were coming up behind us <Evil
Grin>
Best Regards,
John Butler
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43944 From: swaders7 <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:54am
Subject: hopfully...
I'm planning on doing some wheelin' today but haven't done a lot in
the area. I'm planning on taking a friend today and would like
somewhere as close to the Scottsdale area as possible. Does anyone
know of some good areas within an hour of here that a stock 97 TJ
with 31" could go? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
43945 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:59am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with a "baby seat" are you?
----- Original Message -----
From: Siade, Randy
To: 'azvjc'
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off about H2H.
Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and left
ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to piss
and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail stacking
(and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the trail,
D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and put
up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are). If
you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you are
stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND IT!
It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons of
rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!" Oh
and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I made
it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front and
rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a go!
Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because they
look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a trail
run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for parts)
and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the goodies
hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep your
voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or maybe.....juuuuuust
maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be a
snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
way...............
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43946 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:00am
Subject: Re: hopfully...
Wherever you go stack a lot of rocks so this board will have something to talk about!
;->
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: swaders7
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:54 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] hopfully...
I'm planning on doing some wheelin' today but haven't done a lot in
the area. I'm planning on taking a friend today and would like
somewhere as close to the Scottsdale area as possible. Does anyone
know of some good areas within an hour of here that a stock 97 TJ
with 31" could go? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43947 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:00am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Randy,
What prompted the sudden message? Did you just run it this weekend? Or did
some damned magazine post directions to it (like Anihilator was done once)
and then you checked it out?
Just curious. I know you have run it before. I'm just curious what prompted
the message at this time. A friend of mine ran it about 3 years ago and said
it was REALLY hard. He and I walked it about a year and a half to 2 years
ago and he commented that it had already gotten a lot easier looking since he
ran it. I can't even imagine what it must look like now. I think I am going
to have to plan a trip on H2H and clear it as I go. I don't mind removing
tons of rocks! Might be the thing to do!!! Now we can plan trail cleanups
AND trail revamps!
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
43948 From: pebble007 <jawooten@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:01am
Subject: Re: H2H bypass Closuer <--(french)
Where these people are failing is in a basic understanding of our
sport. I (we) spend the money, the time, and the effort to make our
rigs and ourselves capable of doing these trails. We are constantly
pushing the limits of our vehicles and driving skills in order to
find the the things that we can improve/modify in order to make it up
the trail as "clean" as possible. The way that I am using the word
clean comes from rock climbing. It means to make it from the bottom
of the route to the top of the route with no falls or tension on the
rope. For us it is to make it up trail with no assitance from nature
(stacking rocks, blazing bypasses). I feel (jmho) that the guy who
makes it up a run with no winch has made a cleaner run than the guy
who needed one, not to say the winch is bad just not as clean.
I have yet to run anything over a 3.5. I understand my vehicle's
limitations and my own. I will push the envelope but i have this
wonderful feature in my JEEP called REVERSE and I am not afraid to
use it.
Well, just thought I would throw out my opinion.
Josh
99 TJ -HOMER-
--- In az_vjc@y..., aphrodsyak@a... wrote:
>
> Lets do It!!!! I would much rather snap axles than take a bypass,
as would
> the people I whell with. ( unfortunately I think we made that
aparent when
> we did H2H. ) HAHAHA I really don't Remember a by pass when we
were there,
> But I would love to make it impassable.
>
> ERIC
43949 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:02am
Subject: RE: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Actually I think the point here is do trails your rig is set up to do and if you have to stack rocks the unstack them when you are done. Last is PLEASE for the sake of our hobby STAY ON THE TRAIL AND DO NOT MAKE BYPASS.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Hill [mailto:brian@alacartephoto.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:00 AM
To: 'azvjc'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with a "baby seat" are you?
----- Original Message -----
From: Siade, Randy
To: 'azvjc'
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off about H2H.
Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and left
ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to piss
and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail stacking
(and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the trail,
D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and put
up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are). If
you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you are
stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND IT!
It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons of
rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!" Oh
and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I made
it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front and
rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a go!
Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because they
look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a trail
run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for parts)
and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the goodies
hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep your
voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or maybe.....juuuuuust
maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be a
snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
way...............
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43950 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:05am
Subject: Re: Schnebly Hill Road
Congratulations!? I trust she said yes!
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: swaders7
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Schnebly Hill Road
Hey fellow Jeepers!!
I just wanted to vent a little. I went up to Sedona on Saturday with
my girl. Did some sight seeing and then headed up Schnebly Hill.
It's not a hard trail, just real bumpy. Anyways we got up to the 4
mile mark and they had it closed off. Oh well I thought, no biggie,
we'll just head back down. Well after I stopped at the 3 mile mark
with no one around I proposed to my girl and it was all happy times
for us both. After standing around for a little bit we headed back
down and decided to go home. Well, about 1/2 mile after heading down
we started hearing a weird clanking sound under the hood. So I
pulled to the side and was checking it out. I had no clue what it
was so I got out my manual and we both got under the jeep to see if
we could identify it. The whole time I'm under the jeep 4 "pink-
jeepers" drive by. None of them even said a simple hello, can i help
you, can i call for help, nothing....the onbly word that came out of
one of the "pink-jeepers" mouths was "bummer" as she drove quickly
past. Everyone else that drove by asked if I needed help or if there
was anything they could do. I just don't know what's up with
those "pinkies". I actually didn't have a problem with my jeep, some
fastener came loose from holding a breather hose upo and it was
clanking against one of my tie-rods. I just pushed it back in place
and taped it up until I could get another fastener. Thanks everyone
for listening to me vent and I hope that maybe...just maybe a "pink-
jeeper" would somehow read this and see our concerns with thier
attitudes.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43951 From: Jim Hughes <jhughes@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:03am
Subject: Re: hopfully...
Try FR42 out by Bartlett Lake
>>> "swaders7" <swaders7@y...> 02/26/02 10:54AM >>>
I'm planning on doing some wheelin' today but haven't done a lot in
the area. I'm planning on taking a friend today and would like
somewhere as close to the Scottsdale area as possible. Does anyone
know of some good areas within an hour of here that a stock 97 TJ
with 31" could go? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
~Wade
97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43952 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:05am
Subject: RE: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
A fellow hard core rock crawler friend of mine just ran it and posted this
and I just forward it along.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Eller [mailto:jay@t...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:00 AM
Cc: 'azvjc'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Randy,
What prompted the sudden message? Did you just run it this weekend? Or did
some damned magazine post directions to it (like Anihilator was done once)
and then you checked it out?
Just curious. I know you have run it before. I'm just curious what
prompted
the message at this time. A friend of mine ran it about 3 years ago and
said
it was REALLY hard. He and I walked it about a year and a half to 2 years
ago and he commented that it had already gotten a lot easier looking since
he
ran it. I can't even imagine what it must look like now. I think I am
going
to have to plan a trip on H2H and clear it as I go. I don't mind removing
tons of rocks! Might be the thing to do!!! Now we can plan trail cleanups
AND trail revamps!
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (http://community.webshots.com/user/four_by_nut)
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43953 From: jaylalib <jaylalib@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:05am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Now hold on a minute, I have a car seat in mine!!!
Just kidding...I couldn't resist
Jason
99' TJ with no bead locks 4.5" lift and 35" MTR's though
www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with
a "baby seat" are you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Siade, Randy
> To: 'azvjc'
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
>
>
> This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off
about H2H.
> Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
>
>
> JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
> Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
> The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
>
> Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and
left
> ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to
piss
> and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail
stacking
> (and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the
trail,
> D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and
put
> up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
>
> Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are).
If
> you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you
are
> stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND
IT!
> It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
>
> They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons
of
> rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!"
Oh
> and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I
made
> it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front
and
> rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
>
> Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
> THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a
go!
>
> Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
> they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
> bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because
they
> look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a
trail
> run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
>
> For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
> Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
> keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
> wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
> from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for
parts)
> and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
> chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
> around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the
goodies
> hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
> holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep
your
> voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or
maybe.....juuuuuust
> maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
> eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be
a
> snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
> another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
> way...............
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43954 From: pebble007 <jawooten@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:06am
Subject: Re: Schnebly Hill Road
Congrats. You could get married in the jeep:~p
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> Congratulations!? I trust she said yes!
>
> Brian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: swaders7
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:29 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Schnebly Hill Road
>
>
> Hey fellow Jeepers!!
>
> I just wanted to vent a little. I went up to Sedona on Saturday
with
> my girl. Did some sight seeing and then headed up Schnebly
Hill.
> It's not a hard trail, just real bumpy. Anyways we got up to the
4
> mile mark and they had it closed off. Oh well I thought, no
biggie,
> we'll just head back down. Well after I stopped at the 3 mile
mark
> with no one around I proposed to my girl and it was all happy
times
> for us both. After standing around for a little bit we headed
back
> down and decided to go home. Well, about 1/2 mile after heading
down
> we started hearing a weird clanking sound under the hood. So I
> pulled to the side and was checking it out. I had no clue what
it
> was so I got out my manual and we both got under the jeep to see
if
> we could identify it. The whole time I'm under the jeep 4 "pink-
> jeepers" drive by. None of them even said a simple hello, can i
help
> you, can i call for help, nothing....the onbly word that came out
of
> one of the "pink-jeepers" mouths was "bummer" as she drove
quickly
> past. Everyone else that drove by asked if I needed help or if
there
> was anything they could do. I just don't know what's up with
> those "pinkies". I actually didn't have a problem with my jeep,
some
> fastener came loose from holding a breather hose upo and it was
> clanking against one of my tie-rods. I just pushed it back in
place
> and taped it up until I could get another fastener. Thanks
everyone
> for listening to me vent and I hope that maybe...just maybe
a "pink-
> jeeper" would somehow read this and see our concerns with thier
> attitudes.
>
> ~Wade
> 97 "Not A Smurf" TJ
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43955 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:10am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
There ya go Randy. Said this way sounds so much better. I'm sure this needs to be repeated frequently as we have many new members coming all the time.
----- Original Message -----
From: Siade, Randy
To: 'Brian Hill' ; 'azvjc'
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Actually I think the point here is do trails your rig is set up to do and if you have to stack rocks the unstack them when you are done. Last is PLEASE for the sake of our hobby STAY ON THE TRAIL AND DO NOT MAKE BYPASS.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Hill [mailto:brian@alacartephoto.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:00 AM
To: 'azvjc'
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with a "baby seat" are you?
----- Original Message -----
From: Siade, Randy
To: 'azvjc'
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off about H2H.
Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and left
ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to piss
and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail stacking
(and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the trail,
D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and put
up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are). If
you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you are
stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND IT!
It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons of
rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!" Oh
and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I made
it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front and
rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a go!
Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because they
look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a trail
run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for parts)
and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the goodies
hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep your
voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or maybe.....juuuuuust
maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be a
snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
way...............
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43956 From: Brian Hill <brian@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Whew! I though I might be the only one! :->
----- Original Message -----
From: jaylalib
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
Now hold on a minute, I have a car seat in mine!!!
Just kidding...I couldn't resist
Jason
99' TJ with no bead locks 4.5" lift and 35" MTR's though
www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters" with
a "baby seat" are you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Siade, Randy
> To: 'azvjc'
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
>
>
> This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off
about H2H.
> Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
>
>
> JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep, JC
> Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another trail.
> The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The Highway."
>
> Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and
left
> ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to
piss
> and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail
stacking
> (and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the
trail,
> D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them and
put
> up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
>
> Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you are).
If
> you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you
are
> stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU FOUND
IT!
> It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
>
> They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move tons
of
> rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it too!"
Oh
> and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!" I
made
> it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open front
and
> rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
>
> Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and stack....HELL,
> THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a
go!
>
> Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor do
> they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They just
> bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because
they
> look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a
trail
> run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby seat.
>
> For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
> Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is to
> keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go to "4-
> wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
> from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for
parts)
> and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
> chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a look
> around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the
goodies
> hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
> holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep
your
> voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or
maybe.....juuuuuust
> maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the land
> eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only be
a
> snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
> another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
> way...............
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43957 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:59am
Subject: good sound in a jeep?
Hi Guys,
Not sure if this is considered OT or not or how much I'll get burnt for
asking, but has anyone out there got decent sound in their ride? I'm
looking at putting in an audio system, I've already got a source and happy
to spend up to around $500 on an amp, some speakers and a sub.
I previously had rear speakers only and a small sub in the rear. I've been
kicking around rec.cars.audio for a little while and it seems that
everybody says front speakers are the way to go. Is this true or what? I
wasn't unhappy with rears only, but do you really get better sound from fronts?
What is the best way to get good sound, are people mounting speakers up
front? Where? In the doors or down by the feet? Who is using separate
speakers up front, and if so where are you mounting them? What about rears?
I'm planning on going with a second hand amp, probably a 4 channel
75w. I'm thinking 6" combination speakers in the doors, driven by a
channel each and then bridging the remaining 2 channels to run the sub
off. A couple of small rears could be run off the head unit. Is this
going to give me good sound that I can boogey to at 60mph with no roof? Do
I need more wattage? Do I need different speakers up front? Somebody help!
Shaun
South Korea
43958 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:12am
Subject: Re: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
First, let me say that this is not intended to be a flame. I only
intend to offer some different perspective.
There was a time when "the ledge" wasn't a ledge. I remember when it
wasn't more than just a hump in the ground. But, over time, Mother
Nature helped erode that part of the trail and people spinning tires
further eroded it until it became somewhat of a challenge. In addition,
people have created bypasses that are actually harder than the main trail
(bypasses are usually easier). So, what has happened is that people have
attempted to make an easy trail harder. The Crown King trail use to be
easily traveled in a stock rig but this is becoming less true.
This is where I'm torn. Trail challenges usually diminish over time so
I certainly welcome the idea of increasing challenge. For some reason,
it seems ok if Mother Nature changes the difficulty of a trail but it's
not ok if people do it. In any case, if we complain about people making
the hard trails easy, then we shouldn't we let the easy trails remain easy
for those folks that aren't set up for the hard trails? Otherwise, people
who aren't set up to run the hard trails will do so anyways resorting to
rock stacking and other freeway building tactics.
I think I'd be content letting the ledge be stacked and letting the Crown
King trail remain easy.
All IMHO. Comments?
-Roger
> It is a shame when less experienced drivers in less capable vehicles
> vandalize our beautiful trails. On our way to Crown King on Sunday we
> noticed that "The ledge" as it was formerly known should be
> renamed "The ramp" because so many rocks had been stcked up in front
> of it. This was so clowns like the guy in the stock Isuzu rodeo in
> front of us could make it over. It took all the fun out of the one
> true obstacle on that scenic trail.
> I have to say that I agree with this guys rant. If your rig isn't
> ready for a particular trail, then stay off it until it is.
> Just my $.02!
>
> Les
43959 From: d_hargadine <rocncj7@d...>
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:15am
Subject: Re: Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
It's ok to have a baby seat as long as it has 5 point seat belts in
it!! That gives Rock "Crawler" a whole new meaning!! LOL!!
Daron
--- In az_vjc@y..., "jaylalib" <jaylalib@h...> wrote:
> Now hold on a minute, I have a car seat in mine!!!
>
> Just kidding...I couldn't resist
>
> Jason
> 99' TJ with no bead locks 4.5" lift and 35" MTR's though
>
> www.greenmachine.alloffroad.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Brian Hill" <brian@a...> wrote:
> > You're not picking on those of us who drive "grocery getters"
with
> a "baby seat" are you?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Siade, Randy
> > To: 'azvjc'
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:18 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Nearly Jeepers....Trail Destroyers.......
> >
> >
> > This is from a hard core rock crawler that is very pissed off
> about H2H.
> > Sounds like H2H has just become a 2.0.
> >
> >
> > JC Whitney strikes again! That's right folks. The stock Jeep,
JC
> > Whitney catalog loving 4-wheelers have screwed up another
trail.
> > The "Highway To Hell" trail has simply become....."The
Highway."
> >
> > Now I know some of you are saying to yourself.....Who died and
> left
> > ME trail supervisor??? Well, nobody. BUT I do have a right to
> piss
> > and moan when a bunch of yahoos spend two days on a 4+ trail
> stacking
> > (and moving) enough rocks that when they finally DO leave the
> trail,
> > D.O.T (Department Of Transportation) comes right behind them
and
> put
> > up roads signs it's so freakin' easy!
> >
> > Now here's a little clue for you people (you know who you
are).
> If
> > you own a stock Jeep or any stock Jap rig, yada yada, and you
> are
> > stupid enough to go on a 4+ trail.....LEAVE IT THE WAY YOU
FOUND
> IT!
> > It's jerks like you that give ALL Wheelers a bad name!
> >
> > They go on tougher trails that they don't belong on and move
tons
> of
> > rock, stack it miles high, all in the name of "I can do it
too!"
> Oh
> > and so they can tell their buds..."Dude, that trail was easy!"
I
> made
> > it through with 33" Tiger Paws with a 1" lift kit and open
front
> and
> > rear diffs. ta-boot!".....What a crock!
> >
> > Then, if they can't find enough rocks to move and
stack....HELL,
> > THEY JUST MAKE A BY-PASS! As long as no one sees them, it's a
> go!
> >
> > Most of these yahoos do NOT belong to any organized clubs. Nor
do
> > they have any idea what the words "Tread lightly" mean! They
just
> > bolt on set of driving lights, put on bead lock rims (because
> they
> > look cool) and away they go. Their idea of getting ready for a
> trail
> > run is filling the tank up with gas and taking out the baby
seat.
> >
> > For now, I guess the only hope of saving the tougher trails of
> > Arizona for the Rigs that are properly equipped to run them is
to
> > keep them secret. That's right folks! The next time you go
to "4-
> > wheelers Supply" or "Off Road Unlimited" to get a few parts
> > from "behind the counter" (where the 4+ trails guys ask for
> parts)
> > and you see a $50,000 TJ sitting in the parking lot with enough
> > chrome on it to rival a parking lot full of Harley's, take a
look
> > around the lobby......and if you see someone looking at the
> goodies
> > hanging on the peg board, wearing Safari shorts and Boat shoes
> > holding a brand new, just arrived, chrome gas can........keep
> your
> > voice down when discussing that latest trail. Or
> maybe.....juuuuuust
> > maybe, that crashing, metal nashing sound you hear like the
land
> > eating monsters in Stephen King's "The Langoliers" will only
be
> a
> > snapping Dana 30 U-joint and the "PING" axle breaking sound of
> > another Foo-Foo trail wreaking show Jeep headed your
> > way...............
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/