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View Full Version : What is Collateral damage rated?



nomad
02-19-2007, 10:44 PM
I didn't see that trail rated anywhere in the trail guide. Anyone have any idea?

GLEN REAMS
02-19-2007, 10:46 PM
from walking it i would say 4-4.5, and someone mentioned that they never saw a stock lenth tj make the last fall with out getting pulled up or winched up

nomad
02-19-2007, 10:57 PM
I believe that. There were some fullsize blazer wheelbase rigs that couldn't make it either.

We ran it this weekend and we couldn't get up the last climb on the upper trail.

Spongebob
02-19-2007, 11:32 PM
It's definately a tough trail. I would think that it is at least a 4.5 rated trail.

xFallen
02-20-2007, 06:25 AM
Based on what I have observed, the last fall on CDI needs a minimum of about 98" of wheelbase, 35" tires plus proper technique to make it somewhat "easy". It can be done all day with that configuration so long as it isn't raining or wet. Much shorter and it doesn't work so well. That climb is more about wheelbase, break over and technique.

The trail is definitely getting easier. The trail rating scheme is described in the trails section and if one has walked or driven the trail they can probably establish the rating. It is no more than a 4.5.

Easyover
02-20-2007, 11:26 AM
I think it looks harder than it is. I did it on 33's pulling winch on one waterfall after two attempts. The first series of waterfalls look intimidating as hell though!

xFallen
02-20-2007, 12:58 PM
Sounds about right to me. It does require two lockers and appropriate line choices. A fun trail that can be done in very little time with the right group (no stopping for spotting everyone through, little or no winching and so on).


Barry

Spongebob
02-20-2007, 01:01 PM
I had to winch the last waterfall, but made everything else OK. I had some really good spotting from Joe. I am on 33's with a front locker and a rear LSD. It was a very fun trail.

Huck
02-26-2007, 05:55 PM
Stock wheel-base TJ and the last fall took out my rear locker the last time I ran it. Other than that, it was a blast.....

Woody
02-26-2007, 07:07 PM
104" airshocked XJ on 35's.............

The last 7 or 8 times through, I've driven the whole trail, including the upper trail.

I never could get the big fall on the lower part 'til I boatsided the rig.

It's one of my favorite trails.

Woody

Flexy
02-26-2007, 09:01 PM
I would rate it as a 3.0 or maybe a 3.5. Pretty easy trail. The upper part is great fun too. Remember, Raw Deal is a 4.0 for a stock YJ. I think the trail ratings should be based on Vehicle/Driver ability not the "Trail". A stock Camaro on Lower Terminator would make it a 5, but in a built buggy on 42's It would be a 2, even for the newest of drivers. And Woody, Let me remind you that you dont have 35's anymore......BANG!!!

Joe



104" airshocked XJ on 35's.............

The last 7 or 8 times through, I've driven the whole trail, including the upper trail.

I never could get the big fall on the lower part 'til I boatsided the rig.

It's one of my favorite trails.

Woody

Woody
02-26-2007, 09:28 PM
They're only tall on top..........................:D

1BLKJP
02-26-2007, 10:15 PM
I would rate it as a 3.0 or maybe a 3.5. Pretty easy trail. The upper part is great fun too. Remember, Raw Deal is a 4.0 for a stock YJ. I think the trail ratings should be based on Vehicle/Driver ability not the "Trail". A stock Camaro on Lower Terminator would make it a 5, but in a built buggy on 42's It would be a 2, even for the newest of drivers. And Woody, Let me remind you that you dont have 35's anymore......BANG!!!

Joe

Nah, I'd give it at least a 4 just because of that last fall. I give something like Predator a 3.5 these days. Collateral can be a 4. And hey, we need to get out and run upper. Sounds pretty bad arse.

xFallen
02-27-2007, 06:03 AM
I would rate it as a 3.0 or maybe a 3.5. Pretty easy trail. The upper part is great fun too. Remember, Raw Deal is a 4.0 for a stock YJ. I think the trail ratings should be based on Vehicle/Driver ability not the "Trail". A stock Camaro on Lower Terminator would make it a 5, but in a built buggy on 42's It would be a 2, even for the newest of drivers. And Woody, Let me remind you that you dont have 35's anymore......BANG!!!

Joe

Raw Deal isn't a 4 on a moped. A rating system based on driver ability would be impossible to assess universally. Too many combinations of driver vehicle combinations. The one thing somewhat constant (although even they change constantly) are the trails. A given obtsacle will be easy or difficult depending on how one is built and maybe even difficult one day and hard the next depending on any number of factors while the trail itself remains the same. If that wasn't the case, most would likely not go back to trails because there would be little or no challenge.

The trail rating gives a relative scale based on criteria with definitions that do not change, not a seat of the pants scale that many seem to try and apply. Such a rating scheme cannot be communicated meaningfully to others and would in fact be unklnown by the definition above without some set of standfards that assessed vehicle and driver capabilities. One can debate the definitions or criteria in the more standard ratings, but a variable scale based on things that cannot be assessed doesn't seem useful.


Barry

lostoffroad
02-27-2007, 10:00 AM
after the cleanup/unstack collaterall is going to be harder. so are a couple more trails out thee re.

zman
02-27-2007, 10:32 AM
Got my YJ up on the last fall with 35's and 1" over stock wheelbase, so it can be done. FYI, there was not one single rock stacked either. Now the waterfall on the upper section has given me some difficulty.

zman

Flexy
02-27-2007, 08:21 PM
I just hope that you guys find Chris V's Screwdriver!!!!!!!:D :D :D

Joe




after the cleanup/unstack collaterall is going to be harder. so are a couple more trails out thee re.

nomad
03-01-2007, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the input. I didn't realize it would stir such debate.

I realize rating are very subjective, but atleast they are some what of a guide.

We ran the trail and it's fairly tough. I agree that the first part of the trail is looks much more difficult than it drives. On the upper part, the one steep waterfall is nearly impossible to climb without stretched wheelbase. Out of 5 vehicles only one scaled it and his wheelbase was 108". The rest of us didn't make it.

There was no rock stacking on the trail that I saw. But no one we were with really needed it.

GLEN REAMS
03-02-2007, 01:43 AM
the first 3 lip things on this trail look like a blast to drive

xFallen
03-02-2007, 06:08 AM
Thanks for the input. I didn't realize it would stir such debate.

I realize rating are very subjective, but atleast they are some what of a guide.

We ran the trail and it's fairly tough. I agree that the first part of the trail is looks much more difficult than it drives. On the upper part, the one steep waterfall is nearly impossible to climb without stretched wheelbase. Out of 5 vehicles only one scaled it and his wheelbase was 108". The rest of us didn't make it.

There was no rock stacking on the trail that I saw. But no one we were with really needed it.


The shortest wheelbase I have seen make that climb first hand was 97" on 37" blue label Krawlers.

1BLKJP
03-02-2007, 04:19 PM
The shortest wheelbase I have seen make that climb first hand was 97" on 37" blue label Krawlers.

I blew my load and got hung up on my spare tire because I hesitated on the climb. I think I can make it with my stock wheelbase. I think we'll have to see this weekend. :D

xFallen
03-02-2007, 09:37 PM
I blew my load and got hung up on my spare tire because I hesitated on the climb. I think I can make it with my stock wheelbase. I think we'll have to see this weekend. :D

I think it is possible too. I haven't done it yet but have a few more strategies to try. Never been inclined to hold up the group trying but next time out maybe it'll be drive it or flop trying.

nomad
03-04-2007, 10:33 AM
I almost made it, but going over backwards into a tree is a lot different that putting it on it's side. But I think it could be done. I had a lot more weight in the back than usual, a spare, gas, tools. If I unloaded I think I would have made it.

The dude in front of me dug some unfriendly jeep ruts which didn't help.

Woody
03-04-2007, 02:49 PM
I ran it yesterday afternoon, after it got cleaned up.

The big climb on the lower part was tougher than usual. Only two of the five of us drove it.....myself at 104" and a guy in a 108" cj. Spicoli didn't get it, even with 105" wheelbase. It was really slippery.

I don't see how a stock length wrangler on anything less than 38's would even stand a chance.

Woody

xFallen
03-04-2007, 03:16 PM
I ran it yesterday afternoon, after it got cleaned up.

The big climb on the lower part was tougher than usual. Only two of the five of us drove it.....myself at 104" and a guy in a 108" cj. Spicoli didn't get it, even with 105" wheelbase. It was really slippery.

I don't see how a stock length wrangler on anything less than 38's would even stand a chance.

Woody

I think it is doable. Right hand side instead of left side like usual, and some throttle.


Barry

YGOHOME
03-04-2007, 04:10 PM
heres what happened to mine yesterday.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b179/ygohome/P1000093.jpg


Rick (woody) drove right up it no problems:
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2556954720059825998YYsaad

After I get some upgraded ujoints in there I want to try it again. I don't expect to make it without winching but at least without breaking.

Woody
03-04-2007, 06:51 PM
I think it is doable. Right hand side instead of left side like usual, and some throttle.


Barry

Joe tried it yesterday and was denied. He's on sticky 37's and 101" wb, i think.

I came real close to making that line in my XJ prior to the longer wheelbase, too. That was like a couple years ago.

Woody
03-04-2007, 06:55 PM
Ben,

It was fun wheelin' with you yesterday.

You did great, despite the exploding u-joint :eek: I'm glad we got you out of there as quickly as we did.