Optima Red/yellow...M8000 [Archive]

AZG23

02-19-2007, 02:21 PM

ok ya'll...Im getting conflicting stories on this...

Red tops will work for a winch....but arent deep cycle to be able to handle repeated draws..(ex: lots of heavy winching) but Optima doesnt warrnty for winching.

I have read in searching that the Red top is best for daily drivers....and Yellows arent as they get charged off the ALT every day....

Now...Ive also read that some have had issues with YellowTops..dying after a year to 14 mnths...and some have had zero issues and can go 6 years on a Yellow...

Sooooooooo now Im confused as to which one to get...

Need some help on this one...thanks...

4 Wheelers Supply

02-19-2007, 02:23 PM

Go red and dont look back. People put to much thought into this.:)

k7mto

02-19-2007, 02:45 PM

Agreed. I had a red top for years with no issues. I also have the M8000 winch.
Besides, how many times do you actually use your winch on a typical trail run?

I currently have a blue top, only because I got a deal on it.

fwiw, I had a Sears Die Hard for years (before the red top) and it handled winch duties just fine too :)

AZG23

02-19-2007, 03:14 PM

Done.....Simon..PM with a price please...Ill see if I can swing down tomorrow to pick it up...

thx

AZG23

02-19-2007, 03:25 PM

Agreed. I had a red top for years with no issues. I also have the M8000 winch.
Besides, how many times do you actually use your winch on a typical trail run?

:)

This was my thought....but I like to be prepared...so I had to be sure it would be MORE than enough...thanks for the info

lancetkenyon

02-19-2007, 04:13 PM

[QUOTE=k7mto;156575]Agreed. I had a red top for years with no issues. I also have the M8000 winch.
Besides, how many times do you actually use your winch on a typical trail run?

Depends who I wheel with. Used it 3 times this weekend, and not once for me!;) Have definately used it for myself though.:o

AZG23

02-19-2007, 04:49 PM

RokNRich

02-19-2007, 04:55 PM

Depends who I wheel with. Used it 3 times this weekend, and not once for me!;) Have definately used it for myself though.:o

Same here. I just bought a red top. My (stock) battery was toast after the last fews weekends of pulling people back over after flops. The red top worked like a champ getting that Bronco back over on the last obstacle of H2H.

I bought the red top because it was cheaper and has a better warranty (as long as it's not used for winching ;) )

HTH

DesertRat

02-19-2007, 06:09 PM

I bought the red top also.

lancetkenyon

02-19-2007, 06:40 PM

[QUOTE=lancetkenyon;156623]

so whadda you use...?

I still have my 6 year old stock battery!:eek: I have to rev the engine when I winch though, and as soon as it goes bad, I am going to the red top Optima.

Bohunter

02-19-2007, 07:09 PM

[QUOTE=AZG23;156640]

I still have my 6 year old stock battery!:eek: I have to rev the engine when I winch though, and as soon as it goes bad, I am going to the red top Optima.

I have a red top that's just over a year old and using a Warn M8000 the amp draw is noticeable on the meter on the dash.:o I need to keep the RPM's up a bit to keep the battery from dropping too low when I'm using the winch, but it charges right back up as soon as I'm done!:)

I'll be heading for upstate New York this week so I'll see how it works in single digit temps...:eek:

Gasman

02-19-2007, 07:14 PM

FWIW, I went through a couple red tops real fast in the past so went back to regular battery until a few years ago when I added a winch. I decided to give Optima another chance and got a blue top based on the experience of some friends. No issues in about 2 years and I like having the accessory posts on top of the battery.

Tom Schenk

02-19-2007, 08:41 PM

I run a red top + 8K winch; no problems. :) I attached all OEM cables to the front posts and have only the winch on the top posts using marine type terminals.

4 Wheelers Supply

02-20-2007, 06:35 AM

pm sent.:)

Scramblin_Jim

02-20-2007, 09:23 AM

Here is the link to the Optima web site for their info:
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/product_info/automotive.html

So what is the typical price difference between the red and yellow tops?

YGOHOME

02-20-2007, 09:30 AM

I've heard that the optima batteries are no longer all they used to be. Somthing about their design or construction had changed every since they were bought out by Johnson Controls. So far I've only heard this from one other person from another forum and have no idea if its true or not. This "other person" seemed to be really impressed with the odyssey batteries but they are major expensive. But with these good reports you guys are giving on the red top maybe this other guy was just blowing smoke.

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showpost.php?p=143217&postcount=37

YGOHOME

02-20-2007, 10:14 AM

ahhh, who am I kidding... I'm not going to spend $250+ on an odyssey battery! I think I'll pick up one of those red tops... can't be worse than the plane-jane one I'm running now that I got Sam's Club.

AZXJ

02-20-2007, 10:45 AM

Go red and dont look back. People put to much thought into this.:)

X2 the man knows what he's talking about !! :D

AZG23

02-23-2007, 06:22 PM

Thanks Simon...got the Redtop...now just waiting on the winchplate..........

Stoodty

02-23-2007, 06:55 PM

ok this might be a stupid question! can you have a red top connected to a yellow top??? why not get one of each! well if you had to battery sys!

AZG23

02-23-2007, 07:51 PM

Its my understanding that it has to be the same battery, and even the same or very close in age... no actual data to back it up..

Antman

02-23-2007, 08:16 PM

Its my understanding that it has to be the same battery, and even the same or very close in age... no actual data to back it up..

My opinion from my years of taking care of batteries at CAP. We used 4 12V gel cell car style batteries at 90 amphr in series parallel to get 24V at 360 amphr for our RTU's and you had to keep an eye on them as far as float voltage and individual battery voltages. I use to try going through a pallet of them to match in 4's or at least in pairs to get the same matching readings in MHO's before taking them out to install because if one battery went to crap after 6 months, you were best off to replace all of them to keep from having one battery go south a month at a time. By carefully matching them up we could get 4 to 6 years out of a set. these were $165.00 a piece versus the 2 individual cell stacks at $1500 each. $660 instead of $3000 with the same run times was a savings for our company.

The idea is if your going to use 2 batteries in parallel to up the amps, make sure they are as equal as can be. As in same style, both new at same time.

If your wiring them to run separately, like one for OEM stuff, and one for winching, you could run a red top with a blue top, using one at a time for whatever need. IMHO, I wouldn't do this. I would use the same.

Sorry for being long winded.:o

Stoodty

02-23-2007, 08:34 PM

antman, well i am getting to of the same optima's not sure which ones yet! i was planning on connecting them together, but using 1 pri and 1 secondary!

would that be good??? or is there something i should do??

Wayco

02-24-2007, 05:07 AM

Stoodty, you should check out; http://www.12voltguy.com/ He has a lot of stuff that can help you with this setup. Stu Olsen's site addresses this too.

Stoodty

02-24-2007, 07:33 AM

thanks, yeah i was on stu's site today! lookin at it!

Antman

02-24-2007, 08:05 AM

Yes those sites are good. And it depends on what you want to do. You can use an isolator and run each separately for different things, and even have a setup that senses which one needs to be charged. This is probable what your looking for. A deep cycle for the winch and a regular for the OEM stuff. I would just run two red tops and switch between them. OR you can parallel them together for more amp hour rating. positive to positive and negative to negative giving twice the amps and still 12 volts.
I would buy two red tops and a isolated switching setup you can run from inside the cab. Most good quality batteries today can handle winching chores though.
It might be better to just upgrade the alternator and install a hand throttle to
boost the rpm a little when winching. Dodge makes a 136 amp alternator
as follows:

You are looking for an OEM 136 amp alternator OEM PN:56027913
that was an option on the following vehicles(I am unsure of what motor combinations, etc. were required):
· 1997-1998 Dodge B.Series Van
· 1997-1998 Dodge Dakota
· 1998 Dodge Durango
· 1997-1998 Dodge Ram Pickup
· 1997-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee

if you want farther info on this I have a writeup someone did as a WORD Doc.
and I will send it to you if you want. Just shoot me your email address to k7ant@frontiernet.net

AZG23

02-24-2007, 10:33 PM

K....battery is in...and the winch is unpacked...just waiting on the plate to arrive..

But I gotta question...how does the solenoid box mount..?? DO I need to fab up an L bracket to mount it..?? Is here one available...prolly more than its worth and easier/cheaper to make...

Will 1in x 1/8 steel work ok..?

can I get a pic or 2 of the way they are mounted...??

thanks...

Wayco

02-25-2007, 06:50 AM

AZG23

02-25-2007, 07:26 AM

YGOHOME

02-25-2007, 07:44 AM

Time for another cup o java there Wayne...?

Its a Warn M8000...

http://www.winchdepot.com/images/product/26502_large.jpg

I want to mount it just like the pic...but apparently there is no mounting bracket supplied unless you get Warns plate..

The plate I ordered hasnt arrived yet...so Im not installing it...just trying to get everything together before..

:D

The bracket that comes with the Warn Winch Plate mounts the solenoid box to the those horrizontal bars on the winch... so the solenoid box, if using the warn plate bracket, will mount horizontally.

4 wheelers sells the brackets seperatly if you need one. they might even have the design shown in the picture too which would mount the solenoids vertically.

AZG23

02-25-2007, 07:48 AM

ahhh yeah...I just saw that bracket on Warn.com....but do want it mounted vertically.....

Ill probably just fab up a pc of steel and drill a couple mounting holes in the plate to mount it as shown above...thanks for the info...I wasnt sure how the bracket mounted that I found a pic of..

Wayco

02-25-2007, 08:11 AM

Time for another cup o java there Wayne...?

Its a Warn M8000...

http://www.winchdepot.com/images/product/26502_large.jpg

I want to mount it just like the pic...but apparently there is no mounting bracket supplied unless you get Warns plate..

The plate I ordered hasnt arrived yet...so Im not installing it...just trying to get everything together before..

:D

Did I miss something? To late for Java, I'm on my second pot! Didn't see where you posted your winch data up. :confused:
Man it's hard to type with a cat in your lap!

AZG23

02-25-2007, 08:15 AM

hahaha....no problem bro...(look at the thread title :D )

I couldnt afford the big boy Warn (like yours :D)...so went with this one...

Ill prolly just use some one inch flat stock, drill needed holes, and heat and bend a 90 in it...then flat black it, and drill the mounting holes in the plate..I think thats gonna be my best option..

TinyMan

02-25-2007, 09:33 AM

Here you go Brad a couple of pics of the Warn bracket mounted..

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/7Lbar/TOR/bracket.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/7Lbar/TOR/bracket2.jpg

AZG23

02-25-2007, 09:44 AM

cool thanks for the pics bro...that helps seeing how that bracket mounts...

Scramblin_Jim

02-26-2007, 06:33 PM

For price shoping sake, I was at Costco yesterday and found the red top going for $140, yellow top going for $170, and the blue top for $168.

Stoodty

02-26-2007, 06:37 PM

dang it i just bought a red top today from 4 wheelers! wish i would have none those prices were out their!

AZG23

02-26-2007, 06:48 PM

For price shoping sake, I was at Costco yesterday and found the red top going for $140, yellow top going for $170, and the blue top for $168.

Someone somewhere said the Costco one wasnt as strong/same CA or CCA or something to that effect..dunno the truth or not but...

Id rather support 4wheelers than Costco or Sams club...:cool:

Stoodty

02-26-2007, 06:50 PM

true! but saving twenty dollars here and there adds up! plus its right in my back yard not a 35 min drive! LOL

AZG23

02-26-2007, 06:53 PM

I go there from Surprise...Id STILL rather support a 4wd shop than a large chain store. I dont think Costco will open up for you in an emergency like Simon just did for some TJ control arms for a guys son that had to be back to work today...

Im all for saving a buck...or even $20.....but you cant beat the service at 4wheelers...

Stoodty

02-26-2007, 06:56 PM

that you cant! thats for sure! i just wish they were closer! actually no i'm glad they are far away cause i would be a broke SOB!

AZG23

02-27-2007, 07:35 AM

Im just going to mount the solenoid box to the grill....drill 2 holes..a couple of rubber grommets for vibration...and call it good....

I was wondering tho...Im gonna go look in the FSM...but what is the round flat brass spring type sensor UNDER the battery....??