Wild Horse West bar

[Wayco]

Yesterday, while staging for a run into the Bradshaws, I got into a conversation with the Peoria Police in the parking lot of the Wild horse west bar. They were passing out those green pamphlets that you can get when you buy your State Land permit. They informed me that they are actively ticketing violators that enter the area Southeast of the bar. It is posted closed for dust abatement. The bar is located on the Southeast corner of Carefree road and Lake Pleasant road. (99th ave.) There are no Jeep trails out there, so this may be irrelevant. but I thought of it while posting this other thread;

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?p=156148#post156148

[AZG23]

this area is HEAVILY used by the 2 wheeled, 3 wheeled and QUAD wheeled "riders"....

They are going to get everything shut down due to dust...the area up off SVPkwy was closed for the same reason....

I see this being the way everything close gets closed...houses get built, more people move in the area...quad and dirt bike riders abound rippin' it up...locals cry too much dust...all access shut down for the dust control to NEVER be opened again...

[Sandee McCullen]

this area is HEAVILY used by the 2 wheeled, 3 wheeled and QUAD wheeled "riders"....

They are going to get everything shut down due to dust...the area up off SVPkwy was closed for the same reason....

I see this being the way everything close gets closed...houses get built, more people move in the area...quad and dirt bike riders abound rippin' it up...locals cry too much dust...all access shut down for the dust control to NEVER be opened again...

This area has been CLOSED for a number of years and it is not a problem caused by ATV's and bikes alone.
4x4's and sand rails have been doing "sand drags" in this area for a long time.

DUST is going to close everything down soon. The developers are now throwing OHV to the wolves where they are pushing AQC to CLOSE EVERYTHING ANYWHERE NEAR URBAN AREAS TO OHV USE. INCLUDING private property. Hows that for BS.

We can no longer do anything that causes "dust" on our own property. One of the towns in west valley, Goodyear I think, has already passed a "no tolerance" law re dust. In other words OHV can ride NOWHERE............... including private property.

WE are part of that problem across the state. ATV's for doing donuts across the desert lands & roads, 4x4's for racing down roads to get to their trails, bikes for their events etc................ don't point fingers because we're all involved and if we don't join together and stop the ABUSE of the resources and the outright violations re pollution we all lose. COMMON SENSE and RESPECT must be in the picture somewhere.

[Antman]

Before I retired from CAP, on all the canal roads in town or near housing we were told to drive 10 miles per hour to abate dust, because people were complaining. We were basically told if we drove down a canal road in a neighborhood and someone complained of dust, we would get in trouble.
I never understood why anyone who didn't like a little dust would buy property next to a dirt road.:p

[Sandee McCullen]

Before I retired from CAP, on all the canal roads in town or near housing we were told to drive 10 miles per hour to abate dust, because people were complaining. We were basically told if we drove down a canal road in a neighborhood and someone complained of dust, we would get in trouble.
I never understood why anyone who didn't like a little dust would buy property next to a dirt road.:p

Same reason people buy a house under a flight path to an airport.................. ??????????????????
About 4 years ago Pinal County tried to pass an ordinance to prohibit a "4x4" from driving more than 5 MPH on the first mile of ANY dirt/gravel road in Pinal County. The clicker was that the school buses; 2x2 vehicles; or BIG trucks could drive the speed limit. 45 MPH unless posted otherwise! DUH!

We got it stopped by sitting in Council meetings 3 days a week for 6 months. Have done the same for Maricopa County but it hasn't worked. The ORBA attorney has attended numerous Maricopa County and reviewed documents for the past 3-4 years but the STATE of Maricopa do their own thing.

As the "DUST" situation sits now:
If a resident of the housing area or someone driving on Carefree Hwy sees dust at the Boulders area (M.P. 12) and they report to AQC. AQC writes a warning to "the" agency (don't know exactly whether it's State Land or BLM) warning them to bring the area within standards within 60 days or face a STIFF fine. Of course the agency doesn't know "where" the dust came from nor do they know if it was caused by OHV; equestrian; or even Mother Nature. They know there are "areas" of soils that are fine and not comply with PM-10 standards but they don't know if this is an area that produced the "dust viewed" by someone from the other side of a mountain or 1 mile off the Highway......... What do we think will happen when the agency cannot determine the problem and cannot mitigate every trail or area?..................... CLOSE. But, ONLY close to OHV. Equestrians or mountain bikes don't make dust, and we all must know Mother Nature wouldn't do such a thing. We are definitely losing this battle guys........... it's gone too far with very little outcry from the public.

[PMFG!ItsaGP]

As the "DUST" situation sits now:
If a resident of the housing area or someone driving on Carefree Hwy sees dust at the Boulders area (M.P. 12) and they report to AQC. AQC writes a warning to "the" agency (don't know exactly whether it's State Land or BLM) warning them to bring the area within standards within 60 days or face a STIFF fine. Of course the agency doesn't know "where" the dust came from nor do they know if it was caused by OHV; equestrian; or even Mother Nature. They know there are "areas" of soils that are fine and not comply with PM-10 standards but they don't know if this is an area that produced the "dust viewed" by someone from the other side of a mountain or 1 mile off the Highway......... What do we think will happen when the agency cannot determine the problem and cannot mitigate every trail or area?..................... CLOSE. But, ONLY close to OHV. Equestrians or mountain bikes don't make dust, and we all must know Mother Nature wouldn't do such a thing. We are definitely losing this battle guys........... it's gone too far with very little outcry from the public.
:rolleyes: Retard Ed. Are these people are really that clueless?

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

I think its so interesting that ANYONE can complain about dust...We live in a huge dustbowl!!!!

[Sandee McCullen]

I think its so interesting that ANYONE can complain about dust...We live in a huge dustbowl!!!!

Not only that but Arizona Air Quality Standards are exactly as Portland OR. The "dust bowl" and the "swim bowl" of the U.S.

They are claiming the Boulders Area (Carefree Hwy at M.P. 12) does not meet the PM-10 standards but when I asked for the metering reports I was told they have no meters in that area. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm????
When I researched the PM-10 standards I found the areas must be monitored arriving at a 24/7 AVERAGE. The other issue questioned is PM-10 is NOT the dust we see........ it's the small particles we do not see that linger in the air. At this time they then came up with "fugitive dust" meaning the dust we can see. It must be retained within a few feet of the object/vehicle for less than a few seconds or it's in violation of standards. Haven't found out if this is an Arizona standard or nationwide.......... I'm thinking local. Maybe even within the STATE of Maricopa.

It's definitely ugly and we ARE LOSING.

To host an event within Maricopa County one must get permission from AQC before they can even apply for an event application from the land agency. Even then only 150 vehicles are allowed on any given trail/staging/parking each day. This means only 75 vehicles can be included in any event. AND, we are only allowed 2 "out of compliance days each year"....... this includes Mother Nature. When asked "how do we control the dust storms or dust devils across our deserts, we were not given an answer.

This "DUST" issue is part of the reason we're fighting so hard to receive a bigger portion of the copper sticker dollars to enable us to treat the urban trails with dust retardant. Don't need G&F Law Enforcement if we don't have trails.

[Fire Ball]

Particulates known as PM-10 are particulates minus 10 micron in size and are a real hazard. these particles get deep into your lungs and stay there causing chronic health issues. One of the biggest problems of PM-10 are that they don't readily settle back to earth and stay aloft for long periods of time.

The flaw in the whole deal is there really is no way to get rid of or eliminate them. As long as there are people moving ANYWHERE in the valley and the wind blows there will be PM-10 particles in the air. The vehicles moving on surface streets and freeways are a major source as well as the airport, farming, exhaust, manufacturing, and construction.

[AZG23]

but...the airport, farming, manufacturing and constructon wont be stopped to save the air...just those that play in the dirt, they can be stopped/fined/closed off.

[Wayco]

but...the airport, farming, manufacturing and constructon wont be stopped to save the air...just those that play in the dirt, they can be stopped/fined/closed off.
You're right Brad, these other activities will not be stopped, but they are fined when not in compliance and many are developing methods to reduce the problem.
Sandee is right, even if it is a bitter pill to swallow, development will ultimately push our sport further and further away. I remember when Happy Valley road West from I-17 was a 3.0 trail, some of you folks live where I used to "wheel" my '54 Chevy PU. :(
This area that we are talking about was my playground. Wild Horse west was where I used to skydive and we flew C-182's and Beech 18's off a dirt strip heading south from the bar. All these things created huge dust clouds, nobody complained. Nobody around to complain. Oh well, life goes on....

[Antman]

You're right Brad, these other activities will not be stopped, but they are fined when not in compliance and many are developing methods to reduce the problem.
Sandee is right, even if it is a bitter pill to swallow, development will ultimately push our sport further and further away. I remember when Happy Valley road West from I-17 was a 3.0 trail, some of you folks live where I used to "wheel" my '54 Chevy PU. :(
This area that we are talking about was my playground. Wild Horse west was where I used to skydive and we flew C-182's and Beech 18's off a dirt strip heading south from the bar. All these things created huge dust clouds, nobody complained. Nobody around to complain. Oh well, life goes on....

Believe it or not, my friends and I used to go to 32 street and Shea to ride
our dirt bikes. At this point I am glad I live in Navajo county as the change
is sloooow up here so far.:)