Sunday 2/18/07 Box Canyon to the Coke Ovens

[Sklump]

Running through Box Canyon in FJ to the Coke ovens if anyone is interested. Meeting at 8:30 AM. Please respond if you are in and we'll set up a meeting spot for 8:30. Either the McDonalds in Florence or closer to the trail.

[Goanywr]

If i get my u joints put back on the shafts i might join ya! Im in aj so not far for me. Ive ran box canyon but not the coke ovens any obstacles in coke ovens? Im riding in a 92 yj 4in lift with 33 bfg at. Hopefully i will do the work tonight!!

[Sklump]

You are more than capable in that rig. There is only one tricky section of steps where having a lift is nice and since you got one.....

[Loudyman]

I'd like to tag along too. I've been through box canyon several times, but never to the coke ovens.

[Goanywr]

yeh i figured so but allways good to ask. im going right now to get my u joints and putting them on tonight. ill keep in touch on this thread!

[Washington_XJ]

I'm up for a go. I like going through box whenever but have never been to the ovens. Has anybody been out there recently? Its a "moderate" trail in the Charles A. Wells book but I know some things have changed due to the rain this year. I've got a 3.5 lift with 31's I think I should be ok?

Will we be using CB radios? :D

[GLEN REAMS]

arent the coke ovens closed?

[jeeper05]

the last I heard they were closed due to vandals by the property owener

[RokNRich]

The road to the coke ovens is definately NOT closed. The coke ovens themselves have been "closed" :confused: for quite some time. It is private property. Don't be surprised when you roll by to see other people at the ovens, as the "closure" has been purely word of mouth as of late.

Coming from box canyon, it is a bumpy yet scenic ride. Most stock Jeeps should do fine, be prepared for a bit of traffic on the road (quads). You can either find the river crossing and cross or turn around and come back at the end. Have fun

Link to water flows:
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/az/nwis/uv/?site_no=09474000&PARAmeter_cd=00065,00060

Looks like the river is flowing pretty good, be careful, send the new guy first, LOL.

[Sklump]

They're definitely open. A buddy ran a trip outthere a couple of weeks ago and some group of people landed nearby in a helicopter to see them. Not cool about the river though.... hopefully being dry today will have some impact.

3.5 inch lift and 31's should be okay. If you can make it through Box, there is only one section to worry about. I have a JK Unlimited with a 2 inch lift and 32's so I am right there with you.

We'll meet at the mcdonalds at 8:30 AM in florence and then head out! See you sunday!!!

Bring a lunch and plenty to drink!

It's going to be fun and it looks like we'll have some nice weather..

[rockwerks]

They're definitely open. A buddy ran a trip outthere a couple of weeks ago and some group of people landed nearby in a helicopter to see them. Not cool about the river though.... hopefully being dry today will have some impact.

3.5 inch lift and 31's should be okay. If you can make it through Box, there is only one section to worry about. I have a JK Unlimited with a 2 inch lift and 32's so I am right there with you.

We'll meet at the mcdonalds at 8:30 AM in florence and then head out! See you sunday!!!

Bring a lunch and plenty to drink!

It's going to be fun and it looks like we'll have some nice weather..


The OVENS ARE CLOSED!!! its is private property and the owners have asked to stay out! This is an ongoing problem and it appears that we still have people on this forum who dont care about others rights.

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=19277&highlight=coke+ovens

Please stay out and abide by the owners wishes.

[06GrnRubi]

The OVENS ARE CLOSED!!! Please stay out and abide by the owners wishes.

How far can you go on the road between Box Canyon and the Ovens before you've gone to far? Is it possible to get close, and the go around?

[GLEN REAMS]

The OVENS ARE CLOSED!!! its is private property and the owners have asked to stay out! This is an ongoing problem and it appears that we still have people on this forum who dont care about others rights.

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=19277&highlight=coke+ovens

Please stay out and abide by the owners wishes.

Thats what i thought i knew i wasnt going crazy when i asked the same question im not that old yet.

[rockwerks]

How far can you go on the road between Box Canyon and the Ovens before you've gone to far? Is it possible to get close, and the go around?

ovens side Rivers edge I believe

[Sklump]

I care about rights so don't start misjudging people here. I just don't have time to read every single post on this website. Have the coke ovens trail taken off of the AZVJC site or have them make a note that the trail and the ovens are private or post a no trespassing sign on the trail. There are alot of people who don't read this site and end up going from box canyon to the coke ovens because the trails connect and there are no signs posted to deter them. Until then, the trip is on, this is a trip people make weekly and as many times that I have been there we have never messed with the ovens, just viewed them. Just an FYI, there are ALOT of trails that people are driving on that are on private property, you just have to respect that and stick to the trail.

[Sklump]

I would like to recall the end of what I last said. There are alot trails that run through private property that people use all time, and you have to stick to the trail and stay off their land. Regardless, the trail to the coke ovens is BLM and therefore public property. The coke ovens them selves, as well as the house are privately owned. Also, if it wasn't for us people in Jeeps who would clean up the crap lift over by the people who can't respect other peoples land.

[rockwerks]

I would like to recall the end of what I last said. There are alot trails that run through private property that people use all time, and you have to stick to the trail and stay off their land. Regardless, the trail to the coke ovens is BLM and therefore public property. The coke ovens them selves, as well as the house are privately owned. Also, if it wasn't for us people in Jeeps who would clean up the crap lift over by the people who can't respect other peoples land.

I believe its 12 acres or so around the coke ovens that is privately owned. not just the structures on the land. I was told as soon as you get across the riverbed you are on private property



Just an FYI, there are ALOT of trails that people are driving on that are on private property, you just have to respect that and stick to the trail.

Well in this case the trail itself has been closed by the owner. (Just FYI)

[Sklump]

So you can't exit the trail anymore by crossing the gila river??? That part is private?

[rockwerks]

So you can't exit the trail anymore by crossing the gila river??? That part is private?

correct.... from what IM told you need to completely go around.......hence the word CLOSED.

The area is CLOSED. It doesn't matter that the owner lives out of state. A "circulating official letter or statement from the owners asking for people to stop trespassing on their property" means nothing. There were "Private Property, no Trespassing" signs up not long ago. About a year ago there were berms built across the road.

We have very little law enforcement available for issues like this but you can be assured if I hear of any trespass I will turn you in. Deliberate trespass is what makes all of the OHV sport look bad. You've been told and you now know the PRIVATE LAND is closed............. respect it.

[Jeepentj]

All,

I was actually going to lead this trip tomorrow with Steve (sklump) but didn't know the Coke Ovens were closed. Now knowing this Steve and I have decided to change tomorrow's run to just include Box Canyon. We're still going to meet at McDonalds at 8:30 and still plan to have a great time. Hopefully everybody still shows.

Sorry to those who didn't have a chance to experience The Coke Ovens but under the circumstances, omitting them from our plans is the right thing to do.

David

[RokNRich]

correct.... from what IM told you need to completely go around.......hence the word CLOSED.


you are WRONG.

The road is NOT closed.

If the owners don't want people on their property, they should put up signs. You DO NOT have to cross private property to cross the river. The road is a "Right of Way"

You can still do most of the trail (box canyon to the gila) without crossing private property.


Originally Posted by Sandee McCullen
The area is CLOSED. It doesn't matter that the owner lives out of state. A "circulating official letter or statement from the owners asking for people to stop trespassing on their property" means nothing.

Closed or mean nothing ?

There are about a million and 5 quads out there this weekend, most of them don't know what BLM stands for. This is getting ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[rockwerks]

So where is the property line at? does the road go across the private property?

Signs where posted before but vandals have taken them down as well as driving over the berm put up on the road to stop people from entering.

Where do you live? IM sure your yard is a perfect place to wheel in.:D




you are WRONG.

The road is NOT closed.

If the owners don't want people on their property, they should put up signs. You DO NOT have to cross private property to cross the river. The road is a "Right of Way"

You can still do most of the trail (box canyon to the gila) without crossing private property.




Closed or mean nothing ?

There are about a million and 5 quads out there this weekend, most of them don't know what BLM stands for. This is getting ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[RokNRich]

So where is the property line at? does the road go across the private property?

Signs where posted before but vandals have taken them down as well as driving over the berm put up on the road to stop people from entering.

Where do you live? IM sure your yard is a perfect place to wheel in.:D

Do you have any pictures of said signs/berms ?

Do you know what "right of way" means ?

[rockwerks]

Do you have any pictures of said signs/berms ?

Do you know what "right of way" means ?

For a right of way to exist in AZ one of 2 things must happen

the owner must GRANT passage through the property OR

the road way through the property has to be in continuous open and HOSTILE use for 10 years to the right of way easement to be in effect. Since the new owner has not granted passage and the road has not been closed by the owner for 10 years then a right of way does not exist

[RokNRich]

For a right of way to exist in AZ one of 2 things must happen

the owner must GRANT passage through the property OR

the road way through the property has to be in continuous open and HOSTILE use for 10 years to the right of way easement to be in effect. Since the new owner has not granted passage and the road has not been closed by the owner for 10 years then a right of way does not exist

by either of those examples, it's a "right of way"

Thanks for proving my point ;)

[rockwerks]

by either of those examples, it's a "right of way"

Thanks for proving my point ;)

actually it misses because of it, there is a new owner, and they have not granted passage, and have not owned it for ten years so neither can be in effect, as matter of fact the old owners granted passage so the passage as never HOSTILE, so the right of way has never legally existed. (talked to a real estate lawyer about this a few weeks ago about a vacant piece of property next to us up here)

He schooled me on the law. The new owner has the right to close the road as they see fit, even if passage was originally granted it can be revoked at any time. and for the easement to be permanent the use through the property has to be continuous and against the owners wishes for 10 years to be in effect. So time frame wise I think we need another 8 years of trespass for it to be binding

[RokNRich]

actually it misses because of it, there is a new owner, and they have not granted passage, and have not owned it for ten years so neither can be in effect, as matter of fact the old owners granted passage so the passage as never HOSTILE, so the right of way has never legally existed. (talked to a real estate lawyer about this a few weeks ago about a vacant piece of property next to us up here)

He schooled me on the law. The new owner has the right to close the road as they see fit, even if passage was originally granted it can be revoked at any time. and for the easement to be permanent the use through the property has to be continuous and against the owners wishes for 10 years to be in effect. So time frame wise I think we need another 8 years of trespass for it to be binding



Example: Just because the property changes hands, the new owner cannot just cancel a right of way, the existing right of ways stay in effect. If the utility company has a right of way onto a property that you buy, do you think you can deny them that right of way ?

[Washington_XJ]

*Ahem* Anyway, sure I'm still up for Box Canyon. Infact it might be nice cutting it short tomorrow, I kind of want to get back early. I will be meeting you folks at the trail head of Price Road tomorrow, probably around 9 am. Look for a white XJ.

EDIT: Oh does anyone have CB's?

[Jeepentj]

*Ahem* Anyway, sure I'm still up for Box Canyon. Infact it might be nice cutting it short tomorrow, I kind of want to get back early. I will be meeting you folks at the trail head of Price Road tomorrow, probably around 9 am. Look for a white XJ.

EDIT: Oh does anyone have CB's?


I'm not sure where the trail head of Price Road is. I will be on the lookout for a white XJ though. I drive a Yellow Rubicon and Steve drives a green 4-doork JK. If you like, you can call me on my cell - 480-298-1439. We're still planning on meeting at McDonalds in Florence at 8:30 and then will head out from there.

Unfortunately neither Steve nor I have a CB. Don't know about the rest of the group.

Thanks,
David

[AZdezertgirl]

Is this Box Canyon of Wickenburg ??

:)

[David C]

Is this Box Canyon of Wickenburg ??

:)

Not the Box Canyon near Wickenberg. This one is near Florence and the Gila River.

[AZdezertgirl]

I thought i was wrong.. but i was hoping.. :)

Have Fun!

[xjstocker]

hey not to start another war but the current owner of said land is the same owner from before they sold it to another. the other defaulted on payments and the land reverted to the past owner. for this to happen i beleive the that the old/new owner would of been the deed holder of record for all this time. so the 10 + years of hostile use is well established. the person who granted passage did not have legal athority to do so. i for one do not plan on visiting the ovens any time soon. (would like to for the historic value to my kids but i will respect the wishes of the owners) ducking now:p

[rockwerks]

hey not to start another war but the current owner of said land is the same owner from before they sold it to another. the other defaulted on payments and the land reverted to the past owner. for this to happen i beleive the that the old/new owner would of been the deed holder of record for all this time. so the 10 + years of hostile use is well established. the person who granted passage did not have legal athority to do so. i for one do not plan on visiting the ovens any time soon. (would like to for the historic value to my kids but i will respect the wishes of the owners) ducking now:p

It dont matter really those who dont care will trespass and those that do like you and I will abide by the owners wishes.

[Washington_XJ]

Hey had a great time today guys!! The entire day was thrilling yet exhausting and now I'm going to pour me a cold one so talk to you later! Stay in touch and lets do this again.

[Jeepentj]

Kaitlyn and I had a great time as well!! The group dynamic was great and I think everybody had a good time. And the best part was nobody broke anything!! Hope to see you all on a trail again soon.

I'll post the pics and provide the link in the next day or two.

Thanks again,
David Hostetler

[Sklump]

Kim and I had a blast. Everyone who showed up for this rocked!!! XJ, keep in touch, and we'll have to find some trails with good fishin holes!

I am still puckered from a few of those sections we went through along the trail....whew! If any one is up for FJ again, let me know!!!!!!!! FYI I think the wife is going to let me get new wheels and tires and I know I am going to need some armor.

:D Thanks David for doing some A+ spotting and taking the lead!!!

Hey, did anyone see that cow that got hit by a car??? Right after the cattle guard??? The thing was flipping huge.

[Washington_XJ]

No but we saw all the cows crossing. Maybe I missed it (I was blind all day). Ok Steve, stay in touch and we'll do it again. I have a busy week coming up so I dont know how this next weekend looks but if anything comes up I'll let you know.

And tell Kim she was awesome, although you gotta let her drive more next time! :D See ya.

[AZG23]

Is this Box Canyon of Wickenburg ??

:)


if you EVAR went wheelin I can show ya this one....in wick

[Jeepentj]

All,

As promised, here is the link to some of the pictures I took. I actually snapped quite a few more but these are the best of the bunch. In retrospect I wish I would have taken more pictures throughout the event because we missed some good off-roading! Anyway, if anybody wants the actual photos (these are compressed quite a bit) just PM me the photo number and your e-mail address and I'll get them to you. Hopefully somebody else can post some photos they took too.

http://www.hostetlerhobbies.com/Pages/Box%20Canyon%20and%20More%20-%202-18-2007.htm

Thanks again for the great time.

David

[Sklump]

It was priceless watching those two H2s high taail it outta there. Nothing like spending 50K+ for something thats totally useless off road. :D

[SHNIPE]

All,

In retrospect I wish I would have taken more pictures throughout the event because we missed some good off-roading!

The best wheelin happens when youre not worried bout snappin pics. Looks like you guys had a lot of fun!

[Washington_XJ]

It was priceless watching those two H2s high taail it outta there. Nothing like spending 50K+ for something thats totally useless off road. :D

Stupid tahoe's :D
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/9181/p1010175som5.jpg

I've got a ton of pictures myself, about 15 of the hill climb alone. If anybody wants any of them let me know.

[SHNIPE]

Stupid tahoe's :D


I give them credit for actually being out there! Its more dirt than ive seen on H2s in a long while. Like the guy with FJC that was out there last weekend.

[k7mto]

Who were the two CJ owners? I'd like to contact them about the CJ run if they aren't already aware.

[RokNRich]

Stupid tahoe's :D


Wow, two threads in a row you're dogging someone else rigs.........

:rolleyes:

[Sean K.]

It was priceless watching those two H2s high taail it outta there. Nothing like spending 50K+ for something thats totally useless off road. :D

Why'd they "high tail it outta there"? Just curious.

Sean

[Sean K.]

Wow, two threads in a row you're dogging someone else rigs.........

:rolleyes:


Hence my questions......

Look, it seems like there's a lot of passing around of the "haterade" around here. Damn, at least these guys (that could easily be allies to keep our trails OPEN) are out using the area. That's just two more people that will give a crap when closures are threatened.

This my brand is better than your's BS does nothing but divide and conquer.

2 unasked for cents from a guy who doesn't drive a Jeep either.

Sean

[SHNIPE]

Ima sell my jeep and buy a yota just to see who will start hating me just cause i dont drive a peep :D

[Washington_XJ]

Who were the two CJ owners? I'd like to contact them about the CJ run if they aren't already aware.

They were a couple of older couples who weren't part of our group. About half way through they started tagging up with us on obstacles and followed us all the way to the end. Very nice people. Pretty sure they weren't VJCers.\

Wow, two threads in a row you're dogging someone else rigs.........

:rolleyes:

Please explain, what "two threads in a row" ?
Sean K. there was no hatred in my post, just poking fun. I dont see where your coming from so will ignore for now.

[Sklump]

Well as long as I am on the conquer side I'm fine with it.

[Sklump]

They were from New Mexico and they were very cool people. The one guy was eating a sandwich and chasing that by taking a bite out of a fresh Jalapeno seeds and all... he ate the whole thing. He has balls!! Thats Spicy New Mexico for you. I can't eat a green bell pepper without driking a gallon of milk afterwards.

[Washington_XJ]

Im assuming you mean the CJ's? Yes, very nice people. Didnt see the Jalapeno though or would've asked for one ;)

[Sean K.]

Please explain, what "two threads in a row" ?
Sean K. there was no hatred in my post, just poking fun. I dont see where your coming from so will ignore for now.

Just poking fun is fine....but realize that your poking fun is alienating the person you're poking fun at. You're laughing at them, not with them.

Look, say some guy shows up to your easy run with a built tube frame. He's got a sticker on the back that says "Don't follow me, you won't make it" and then he "pokes fun" at a few of you guys when he WALKS something you struggle on.

Generally seems like a good guy, but I'm guessing many people here wouldn't appreciate the "jokes".

See what I mean?

Sean

[Washington_XJ]

Just poking fun is fine....but realize that your poking fun is alienating the person you're poking fun at. You're laughing at them, not with them.

Look, say some guy shows up to your easy run with a built tube frame. He's got a sticker on the back that says "Don't follow me, you won't make it" and then he "pokes fun" at a few of you guys when he WALKS something you struggle on.

Generally seems like a good guy, but I'm guessing many people here wouldn't appreciate the "jokes".

See what I mean?

Sean

I dont see any "alienation" by poking fun at a couple hummers. The fact of the matter is if they would've started to wheel with us we would've all started talking and probably had a great time together. I think you just had to of been there to understand the comedy of two hummers that probably cost more than all our jeeps combined turning around on the first obstacle.

I apologize to any of those I offended with my "hostile" comments. I will shut up now.

[Sean K.]

Xan,
It's not about being offended. I certainly am not, nor would I be if the situation was reversed. I have thicker skin than that. And I would guess most people here do too.

However, we thicker skinned folks tend to not realize that other people (like those two Hummer drivers) might take offense. I'm not saying they would....I don't know them, but I would bet this thread would become a bash fest if it was linked to a Hummer website.

All I'm trying to relate is how someone else may take your comments as that of a stuck up Jeeper.

Hope you understand. I wasn't trying to bust your balls....just get you to see it from another perspective.

Take care and I aplogize for any hard feelings.

Sean

[Washington_XJ]

Its ok sean I know where your coming from.

[Sean K.]

Cool. I hope to be able to wheel with ya sometime. :)

Sean

[GLEN REAMS]

can someone post up some pictures? i want to see if its worth the drive out there i would like to see pictures of the obsicials in box and the ovens thanks guys
-Glen

[Cherokee-MP]

Hey Guys its me From Korea and for one stop arguing like a bunch of girls, and for two thanks alot Steve, David and Josh i had an awesome time and the pictures that were posted with the link by david or steve not sure sorry, but anyhow people here are loving them so if anyone is holding back please send them to me! :D I enjoyed walking the Gila River too :eek: :D :D Ill stay in touch and after seeing the pictures im thinking about keeping the XJ and pouring even more into it :cool: Well it was a real good time!! Keeping in touch, Eric

[Jeepentj]

can someone post up some pictures? i want to see if its worth the drive out there i would like to see pictures of the obsicials in box and the ovens thanks guys
-Glen

You must have missed the link on the previous page. Here it is again.

http://www.hostetlerhobbies.com/Page...02-18-2007.htm

David

[Washington_XJ]

Hey Guys its me From Korea and for one stop arguing like a bunch of girls, and for two thanks alot Steve, David and Josh i had an awesome time and the pictures that were posted with the link by david or steve not sure sorry, but anyhow people here are loving them so if anyone is holding back please send them to me! :D I enjoyed walking the Gila River too :eek: :D :D Ill stay in touch and after seeing the pictures im thinking about keeping the XJ and pouring even more into it :cool: Well it was a real good time!! Keeping in touch, Eric

No thanks to me? No pictures for you then. :)

[GLEN REAMS]

You must have missed the link on the previous page. Here it is again.

http://www.hostetlerhobbies.com/Page...02-18-2007.htm

David

yeah i missed that link, thanks!
-Glen

[Cherokee-MP]

No thanks to me? No pictures for you then. :)

Quit your crying... on the other hand i refuse to argue like a techno Fa^got over the internet like some of you like to do ever so often... so Peace out guys- Thanks again.
Stay Army-:)

[Washington_XJ]

Wow, ok then.

[Loudyman]

I had a really good time last weekend. Thanks to everyone that went.

[AZdezertgirl]

if you EVER went wheelin I can show ya this one....in wick


i go wheeling alot.. just never off on the weekends to go with anyone. I actually had that day off and thought I could have some company. :(

[Washington_XJ]

Where is wickenburg in relation to mesa anyways? I'm always up for some new areas to explore.

[cw50must]

its northwest of lake pleasant, on the way to Vegas. So its not that close to Mesa.

[AZG23]

i go wheeling alot.. just never off on the weekends to go with anyone. I actually had that day off and thought I could have some company. :(

well...Im off sun, mon, tues.....so you have NO excuses! :D didja get yer wave the other day on Bell rd...?