blooddrive
01-04-2004, 11:14 AM
43385-43409
43385 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:27pm
Subject: [FS] tj spacer kit (budget boost)
Price: $130
Contact: rioshilo@aol.com
1.75 spacers (Daystar) and Rancho RS5000 shocks for TJ's. Perfect way to start out lifting your jeep at a low cost. I only had this kit on my jeep for 3 weeks and then got a deal that I couldn't pass up for a 3" lift.
Rio Harbour
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
43386 From: Alan Doty <doty34@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:11am
Subject: big thanks
I just wanted to thank everyone that helped me out on my broken wheel stud problem. The jeep is back on the road and ready for another weekend of wheelin.
Thanks,
Alan
43387 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:24am
Subject: Re: How long does the AZVJC sticker take to get to your house?
Guys,
This was posted as a general question...That was all.
So, let's put this to rest.
--- itsajeepthing28@a... wrote:
> Dang ya'll... Chill out a bit...
>
> by the way... Didn't get any e-mail from Jon L.
> thanks for getting them in the mail!!!
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
43388 From: David Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:50am
Subject: Fr- 42 and Telegraph line road
I'm looking at the Wells Trail book. The book is calling the trail we call fr-42, Telegraph line road. Is this it's true name?
pg. 168
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
43389 From: cruzeunit <cruzeunit@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:10am
Subject: Re: Shckle Reverse Kits
The SR is one of the best things you can do for handling. My CJ with
over 5" of lift, 35's, & no swaybars will do 75 down the freeway
(downhill) with no drifting or swerving at all.
Go with the MORE kit its way stronger than some of the cheap kits
you can get in town. Ask Ty at Desert Rat how easy it is to break the
Warrior kit.
I don't think a SR will help you if your having problems with a
stiff ride. I agree with the other post about looking into your
springs & shocks.
Also, Do a search of this topic There have been lots of discussions
about the pros & cons of a SR.
Dan
43390 From: Shadow Wolf <shadowwolf@l...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:13am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
What about those turbo city upgrades. They don't give a whole lot but every
little bit does from what I hear. Also they make a stroker kit for the
4.0L I-6 that is suppose to bump it up to 260hp and 350 lbs torque. But
other than that I don't know of any other than what Scott said.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
To: <flyboy0417@a...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
> Been around Jeeps for years. I've owned 2 of them. Short of a V8 swap or
> installing a supercharger save your money.
>
> One of the Jeep mags did some tests lately that agree with what I've been
> saying for years.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flyboy0417@a... [mailto:flyboy0417@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
>
>
> What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install
easily
> besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
43391 From: kmichael02 <kmichael02@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:18am
Subject: -------I need a SEATbelt part......
the clasp side, the one that has the press release
92yj
anyone??
thanks
mike
43392 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:21am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower is
time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured without
reference to time.
Some equations for you:
Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
Think of it this way:
You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce 500
ft/lbs of torque.
You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
First Engine:
RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
RPM = 52.52
Second Engine:
RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
RPM = 5252
As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High RPM
application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
RPM, but same torque will not.
You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
(torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that speed,
however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine can
produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
with turning all of those accessories like power steering, altinator,
etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to die,
so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> Joey wrote:
>
> Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
43393 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:31am
Subject: RE: Re: horsepower modifications?
Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower is
time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured without
reference to time.
Some equations for you:
Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
Think of it this way:
You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce 500
ft/lbs of torque.
You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
First Engine:
RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
RPM = 52.52
Second Engine:
RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
RPM = 5252
As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High RPM
application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
RPM, but same torque will not.
You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
(torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that speed,
however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine can
produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
with turning all of those accessories like power steering, altinator,
etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to die,
so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> Joey wrote:
>
> Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43394 From: wishmaaker <wishmaaker@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:34am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
Since I purchased my jeep I have heard rumors that a 4 cyc has more
torque then the I-6. Is there any truth to that?
TIA
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
>
> Joey K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
>
>
> Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
> how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower
is
> time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured
without
> reference to time.
>
> Some equations for you:
> Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
> Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
> RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce
500
> ft/lbs of torque.
>
> You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
> first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
> With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
>
> Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
> First Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
> RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
> RPM = 52.52
>
> Second Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
> RPM = 5252
>
> As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
> torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
>
> The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
> RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High
RPM
> application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
> RPM, but same torque will not.
>
> You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
> Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
> 1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
> HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
> guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
> 10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
> axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
>
> Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
> keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
> Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
> 2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
> the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
> the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
>
> So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
> such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
> instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
> the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
> given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
> (torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that
speed,
> however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine
can
> produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
> 100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
> engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
> with turning all of those accessories like power steering,
altinator,
> etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
> 500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to
die,
> so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
> it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
>
> Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> > Joey wrote:
> >
> > Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> > and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> > and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43395 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:54am
Subject: [FS] 81-95 CJ YJ SOFT HALF DOORS
Price: $75.00
Contact: SIMON LUKERT
1 PAIR BESTOP 1/2 DOORS SPICE USED ONLY ON 1 TRIP. WILL FIT 81TO95 CJ YJ SIMON 480 985 0933 NIGHTS.
SIMON LUKERT
43396 From: scottcmusgrave <scottcmusgrave@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:56am
Subject: Dying Polyurethane
Dose anyone know how to dye or color Polyurethane? I heard that you
can boil it with RIT dye, but I wanted to find out if any one had
done this or knows another way. I know you can't paint it. Whats left
a sharpy!!!
Thanks,
43397 From: Dan Sexton <sextonds@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 1:01am
Subject: Re: [Re: For all the non-believers]
Daystar Products has a lift for those Libertys
hunteroffroad@a... wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------
> Attachment:
> MIME Type: multipart/alternative
> ---------------------------------------------
No, I m pretty sure it is IFS. I was looking at that too, but the tires
arent at the right angles to be a solid axle. I saw them uip close at the
dealer. I honeslty fear the day someone wants a bumper built for one of
those........ I dont know about a swap, but I dont think that will be easy
either.
JOhn K
__________________________________________________ __________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1
43398 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:25am
Subject: Crown King
Well I did my first wheeling trip yesterday. We went
up to Crown King....AND WHAT A BLAST! Thank god there
was another member up there. I have a '98 ZJ, 3.5
lift, front air lockers, detroit rear, quick
disconnects. I must have gotten out about 8 or 9
times and told him there is absolutely NO WAY I can
make it up there. The ledge was tricky. One was a hill
with HUGE holles and bumps just past Fort Misery. I
stared at it for a good 5 minutes. When I finally
went up, I had such a rush I DID IT AGAIN! I had no
idea what a difference lockers, lift,
disconnects....oh yeah, and tire pressure makes. He
was quick to point out I should let my tires down from
45psi to 17psi. I am still on a HIGH! LETS GO!!!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
43399 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:37am
Subject: RE: horsepower modifications?
One of the mags did a test and slapped on a bunch of mods such as exhaust,
computer chip, intake, etc and only got a 2-4% improvement and sacrificed
lowe end torque to gain the higher end horsepower. What we all want in a
Jeep is is more low end torque, not high end horsepower.
Now the Hesco stroker kit on the other hand is a true mod that gets some low
end power by increasing your displacement from 4.0 to 4.7L which offers V8
torque and horsepower from the straight 6.
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/bryce/stroker/stroker.cfm
http://www.hescosc.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?3X364946#k
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/98/04_apr/cored2.html
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadow Wolf [mailto:shadowwolf@l...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:14 AM
To: flyboy0417@a...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Scott Kruize
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
What about those turbo city upgrades. They don't give a whole lot but every
little bit does from what I hear. Also they make a stroker kit for the
4.0L I-6 that is suppose to bump it up to 260hp and 350 lbs torque. But
other than that I don't know of any other than what Scott said.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
To: <flyboy0417@a...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
> Been around Jeeps for years. I've owned 2 of them. Short of a V8 swap or
> installing a supercharger save your money.
>
> One of the Jeep mags did some tests lately that agree with what I've been
> saying for years.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flyboy0417@a... [mailto:flyboy0417@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
>
>
> What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install
easily
> besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
43400 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:40am
Subject: RE: Re: horsepower modifications?
I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: wishmaaker [mailto:wishmaaker@y...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
Since I purchased my jeep I have heard rumors that a 4 cyc has more
torque then the I-6. Is there any truth to that?
TIA
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
>
> Joey K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
>
>
> Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
> how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower
is
> time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured
without
> reference to time.
>
> Some equations for you:
> Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
> Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
> RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce
500
> ft/lbs of torque.
>
> You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
> first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
> With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
>
> Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
> First Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
> RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
> RPM = 52.52
>
> Second Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
> RPM = 5252
>
> As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
> torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
>
> The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
> RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High
RPM
> application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
> RPM, but same torque will not.
>
> You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
> Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
> 1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
> HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
> guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
> 10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
> axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
>
> Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
> keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
> Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
> 2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
> the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
> the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
>
> So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
> such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
> instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
> the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
> given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
> (torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that
speed,
> however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine
can
> produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
> 100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
> engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
> with turning all of those accessories like power steering,
altinator,
> etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
> 500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to
die,
> so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
> it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
>
> Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> > Joey wrote:
> >
> > Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> > and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> > and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43401 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 8:30am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
Intake and exhaust are really the only way to go. Engine tuning is a waste
of time for most. Manufacturers talk about increases in HP or whatever,
but they take with one hand what they give with the other. *usable* power
is what you really need, and it's hard to come by. You don't really say
what you need the HP for (more low down pull, more speed getting up hills,
onroad power?). If you need more low down then your better off putting the
money into gearing. If you need more high end power then a spacer on your
carb can work. Dial-a-jet (not Dynojet) gives a noticeable increase where
you want it; low to mid-range. These things have been *the* mod on amateur
snowlseds and jet ski's for years. They broke into motorbikes a couple of
years ago and they're great. Not sure if you can get them for jeeps. They
pre-atomise the fuel (not just marketing nonsense).
Shaun
South Korea
What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install easily
besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.
43402 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 8:30am
Subject: Re: Has anyone buillt one of these?
I built on myself. It cost me around $20 in fittings and hose. Spend an
hour at a compressor supply store and you'll find most of the stuff you
need for a few dollars. There are some very well done pre-made units
available with a range of accessories that are built with offroad driving
in mind, but they cost. My next trick is to permanently mount it to my
rig. It's not hard to route the hosing safely along inside my rocker pro,
and have appropriate hoses feed from my a/c compressor into the cab so all
I have to do is get out, clip the 4 clamps on and then get back in the cab
and I can air down/up from there. I couldn't be bothered with packing up/
unpacking it every time. The only problem is preventing crud/ice from
building up in the valves....
Shaun
South Korea
Does anyone have or need one of these ?
Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43403 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 8:31am
Subject: Re: Revolver Shackles - Pro or Con?
I don't run revolvers though i am probably going to change over to them
(after I save up a little cash etc). I've trailed with guys who use them
and I've done some research on the subject. There are better and worse
revolvers, you get what you pay for, much more than with normal
shackles. Cheaper ones drift around and can reverse accidentally when
getting too much flex. You will need super long shocks especially up front
when you install them, and be prepared for super flex (this is the main
reason you'd go with them).
Most guys who do a lot of spring/shackle lift find that they lose all their
flex. This was my case. I was running a pretty stock ride with swaybars
permanently removed at both ends. The shackles were wimpy little stock
items and seemed to drift about a bit, but I got excellent flex on the
trail. I changed over to a 2" spring lift, 2" shackle lift and used the
appropriate rancho 5000 series shocks. I was pretty miffed at how much
flex I lost. Though it seems a bit weird, the springs have to twist in
order for your rig to flex. As you start lifting the springs have to twist
more in order to get the same amount of flex. Having good quality heavy
duty stiff shackles only makes it worse. SOA conversions don't have the
same problem. While revolving shackles do give you more articulation, the
real joy to them is that most are also *revolving* shackles. This takes
all the stress off the leaf springs and you get back flex you only had in
your dreams before.
Your rig doesn't have a lot of lift, and you didn't mention whether you
have quick disconnects or not. You also don't say why you'd like to change
or what sort of trails you wheel. I'd say that if you're considering going
SOA in the future save your money, stick with your current shackles. If
you are thinking of going with a little more lift later and you've already
removed your sway bar(s) then revolvers might be for you. Bare in mind
you'll pay at least 4 times as much for them as for normal shackles. Don't
forget to ad the price of new shocks and you're getting closer to the cost
of a SOA. Steering shaft can also be a problem.
Shaun
South Korea
I am considering revolver shackles for my 74 CJ-5, which currently has
stock (?) springs, a 2" shackle lift, a one inch BL, with 33 X 12.50 X
15's mounted on 10" rims.
Comments either pro or con on the revolver shackles for this
application?
TIA
Bob
43404 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:45am
Subject: RE: Re: horsepower modifications?
Check out the March 2002 issue of JP magazine. They did some mods and have
dyno results printed on the 4 and 6 cylinder mtors. This should answer your
4 cyl torque question.
Read the article and then we can debate whether a few horsepower gained at
the expense of low end torque is really worth it.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:41 AM
To: wishmaaker; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: wishmaaker [mailto:wishmaaker@y...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
Since I purchased my jeep I have heard rumors that a 4 cyc has more
torque then the I-6. Is there any truth to that?
TIA
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
>
> Joey K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
>
>
> Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
> how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower
is
> time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured
without
> reference to time.
>
> Some equations for you:
> Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
> Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
> RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce
500
> ft/lbs of torque.
>
> You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
> first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
> With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
>
> Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
> First Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
> RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
> RPM = 52.52
>
> Second Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
> RPM = 5252
>
> As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
> torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
>
> The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
> RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High
RPM
> application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
> RPM, but same torque will not.
>
> You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
> Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
> 1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
> HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
> guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
> 10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
> axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
>
> Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
> keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
> Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
> 2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
> the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
> the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
>
> So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
> such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
> instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
> the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
> given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
> (torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that
speed,
> however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine
can
> produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
> 100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
> engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
> with turning all of those accessories like power steering,
altinator,
> etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
> 500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to
die,
> so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
> it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
>
> Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> > Joey wrote:
> >
> > Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> > and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> > and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43405 From: Bob Jacques <bjacques@m...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:45am
Subject: Where to buy a CB in East Valley
Hello, Can anyone advise me where to get a basic CB and Ant for my TJ in the
East Valley?? Emphasis on BASIC. Thanks, Bob J 02X
43406 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:55am
Subject: RE: Re: horsepower modifications?
Sound like something you'd here form one of those trash throwing, bypass
cutting, rock stacking, axle breaking, beer drinking, and 6-cyl envious
AZA members.
J/K
Couldn't resist
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:41 AM
To: wishmaaker; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: wishmaaker [mailto:wishmaaker@y...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
Since I purchased my jeep I have heard rumors that a 4 cyc has more
torque then the I-6. Is there any truth to that?
TIA
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
>
> Joey K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
>
>
> Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
> how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower
is
> time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured
without
> reference to time.
>
> Some equations for you:
> Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
> Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
> RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce
500
> ft/lbs of torque.
>
> You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
> first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
> With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
>
> Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
> First Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
> RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
> RPM = 52.52
>
> Second Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
> RPM = 5252
>
> As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
> torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
>
> The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
> RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High
RPM
> application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
> RPM, but same torque will not.
>
> You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
> Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
> 1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
> HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
> guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
> 10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
> axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
>
> Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
> keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
> Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
> 2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
> the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
> the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
>
> So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
> such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
> instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
> the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
> given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
> (torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that
speed,
> however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine
can
> produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
> 100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
> engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
> with turning all of those accessories like power steering,
altinator,
> etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
> 500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to
die,
> so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give it
> gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
>
> Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> > Joey wrote:
> >
> > Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> > and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> > and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43407 From: Randall A.Mutter <ramaz@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:52am
Subject: RE: Where to buy a CB in East Valley
Hi Bob
I got mine at Radio Shack.com store at Country Club + Southern (the old
Home Depot location). They have a nice selection at good prices. There
was even a sales person there that was very helpful.
Good luck
Randy
Randall A. Mutter 95XJ, 76 CJ-7
ramaz@c...
Thank goodness there are no 12 step programs for Jeeping...
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:45 AM
To: 'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] Where to buy a CB in East Valley
Hello, Can anyone advise me where to get a basic CB and Ant for my TJ in
the
East Valley?? Emphasis on BASIC. Thanks, Bob J 02X
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43408 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:55am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
JP, I believe it was, did that test. If you look (and read) closely, you'll see that they really got nothing !!!!! It wasn't 2 ~ 4%, but maybe 2 ~ 4 hp, but that's all well within the error margin of the dyno.
The strokers do seem to produce some useful gains, and I think one of the superchargers does/did (the Rimmer one maybe). The other superchargers certainly produce more HP and torque, but it's all about what I would consider "useable" range, like above 3000 RPM.. Even the test in the magazine (JP ?) they didn't start looking at the results until above 2000 RPM, and most of the "gain" was seen way above that. When I'm wheeling, I'm rearly above 2000 rpm, maybe a little in the 2000 ~ 2500 range. BTW, the magazine qualified the results, or should I say, lack of results (I'm sure to try and please the advetisers), by saying "well, the vehicle *felt* better or *sounded* better. Hell that and $0.55 will buy me a soda.
Cheers,
Fred
Scott Kruize wrote:
One of the mags did a test and slapped on a bunch of mods such as exhaust,computer chip, intake, etc and only got a 2-4% improvement and sacrificedlowe end torque to gain the higher end horsepower. What we all want in aJeep is is more low end torque, not high end horsepower.Now the Hesco stroker kit on the other hand is a true mod that gets some lowend power by increasing your displacement from 4.0 to 4.7L which offers V8torque and horsepower from the straight 6.http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/bryce/stroker/stroker.cfmhttp://www.hescosc.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?3X364946#khttp://www.off-road.com/jee
p/cherokee/98/04_apr/cored2.htmlScott K-----Original Message-----From: Shadow Wolf [mailto:shadowwolf@lvcm.com]Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:14 AMTo: flyboy0417@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Scott KruizeSubject: Re: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?What about those turbo city upgrades. They don't give a whole lot but everylittle bit does from what I hear. Also they make a stroker kit for the4.0L I-6 that is suppose to bump it up to 260hp and 350 lbs torque. Butother than that I don't know of any other than what Scott said.David----- Original Message -----From: "Scott Kruize" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:41 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
Been around Jeeps for years. I've owned 2 of them. Short of a V8 swap orinstalling a supercharger save your money.One of the Jeep mags did some tests lately that agree with what I've beensaying for years.Scott K-----Original Message-----From: flyboy0417@aol.com [mailto:flyboy0417@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install
easily
besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43409 From: Shepherd, Blake <blakeshepherd@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:57am
Subject: RE: horsepower modifications?
I wish my 4 banger TJ had more high RPM power. It is fine off-road, just need a little more punch on the hwy.
Blake
80CJ5
01 TJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred [mailto:fredtj@home.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:56 AM
To: Scott Kruize
Cc: AZ_VJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
JP, I believe it was, did that test. If you look (and read) closely, you'll see that they really got nothing !!!!! It wasn't 2 ~ 4%, but maybe 2 ~ 4 hp, but that's all well within the error margin of the dyno.
The strokers do seem to produce some useful gains, and I think one of the superchargers does/did (the Rimmer one maybe). The other superchargers certainly produce more HP and torque, but it's all about what I would consider "useable" range, like above 3000 RPM.. Even the test in the magazine (JP ?) they didn't start looking at the results until above 2000 RPM, and most of the "gain" was seen way above that. When I'm wheeling, I'm rearly above 2000 rpm, maybe a little in the 2000 ~ 2500 range. BTW, the magazine qualified the results, or should I say, lack of results (I'm sure to try and please the advetisers), by saying "well, the vehicle *felt* better or *sounded* better. Hell that and $0.55 will buy me a soda.
Cheers,
Fred
Scott Kruize wrote:
One of the mags did a test and slapped on a bunch of mods such as exhaust,computer chip, intake, etc and only got a 2-4% improvement and sacrificedlowe end torque to gain the higher end horsepower. What we all want in aJeep is is more low end torque, not high end horsepower.Now the Hesco stroker kit on the other hand is a true mod that gets some lowend power by increasing your displacement from 4.0 to 4.7L which offers V8torque and horsepower from the straight 6.http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/bryce/stroker/stroker.cfmhttp://www.hescosc.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?3X364946#khttp://www.off-road.com/jee
p/cherokee/98/04_apr/cored2.htmlScott K-----Original Message-----From: Shadow Wolf [mailto:shadowwolf@lvcm.com]Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:14 AMTo: flyboy0417@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Scott KruizeSubject: Re: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?What about those turbo city upgrades. They don't give a whole lot but everylittle bit does from what I hear. Also they make a stroker kit for the4.0L I-6 that is suppose to bump it up to 260hp and 350 lbs torque. Butother than that I don't know of any other than what Scott said.David----- Original Message -----From: "Scott Kruize" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:41 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
Been around Jeeps for years. I've owned 2 of them. Short of a V8 swap orinstalling a supercharger save your money.One of the Jeep mags did some tests lately that agree with what I've beensaying for years.Scott K-----Original Message-----From: flyboy0417@aol.com [mailto:flyboy0417@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install
easily
besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43385 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:27pm
Subject: [FS] tj spacer kit (budget boost)
Price: $130
Contact: rioshilo@aol.com
1.75 spacers (Daystar) and Rancho RS5000 shocks for TJ's. Perfect way to start out lifting your jeep at a low cost. I only had this kit on my jeep for 3 weeks and then got a deal that I couldn't pass up for a 3" lift.
Rio Harbour
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
43386 From: Alan Doty <doty34@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:11am
Subject: big thanks
I just wanted to thank everyone that helped me out on my broken wheel stud problem. The jeep is back on the road and ready for another weekend of wheelin.
Thanks,
Alan
43387 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:24am
Subject: Re: How long does the AZVJC sticker take to get to your house?
Guys,
This was posted as a general question...That was all.
So, let's put this to rest.
--- itsajeepthing28@a... wrote:
> Dang ya'll... Chill out a bit...
>
> by the way... Didn't get any e-mail from Jon L.
> thanks for getting them in the mail!!!
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
43388 From: David Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:50am
Subject: Fr- 42 and Telegraph line road
I'm looking at the Wells Trail book. The book is calling the trail we call fr-42, Telegraph line road. Is this it's true name?
pg. 168
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
43389 From: cruzeunit <cruzeunit@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:10am
Subject: Re: Shckle Reverse Kits
The SR is one of the best things you can do for handling. My CJ with
over 5" of lift, 35's, & no swaybars will do 75 down the freeway
(downhill) with no drifting or swerving at all.
Go with the MORE kit its way stronger than some of the cheap kits
you can get in town. Ask Ty at Desert Rat how easy it is to break the
Warrior kit.
I don't think a SR will help you if your having problems with a
stiff ride. I agree with the other post about looking into your
springs & shocks.
Also, Do a search of this topic There have been lots of discussions
about the pros & cons of a SR.
Dan
43390 From: Shadow Wolf <shadowwolf@l...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:13am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
What about those turbo city upgrades. They don't give a whole lot but every
little bit does from what I hear. Also they make a stroker kit for the
4.0L I-6 that is suppose to bump it up to 260hp and 350 lbs torque. But
other than that I don't know of any other than what Scott said.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
To: <flyboy0417@a...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
> Been around Jeeps for years. I've owned 2 of them. Short of a V8 swap or
> installing a supercharger save your money.
>
> One of the Jeep mags did some tests lately that agree with what I've been
> saying for years.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flyboy0417@a... [mailto:flyboy0417@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
>
>
> What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install
easily
> besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
43391 From: kmichael02 <kmichael02@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:18am
Subject: -------I need a SEATbelt part......
the clasp side, the one that has the press release
92yj
anyone??
thanks
mike
43392 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:21am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower is
time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured without
reference to time.
Some equations for you:
Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
Think of it this way:
You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce 500
ft/lbs of torque.
You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
First Engine:
RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
RPM = 52.52
Second Engine:
RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
RPM = 5252
As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High RPM
application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
RPM, but same torque will not.
You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
(torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that speed,
however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine can
produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
with turning all of those accessories like power steering, altinator,
etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to die,
so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> Joey wrote:
>
> Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
43393 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:31am
Subject: RE: Re: horsepower modifications?
Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower is
time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured without
reference to time.
Some equations for you:
Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
Think of it this way:
You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce 500
ft/lbs of torque.
You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
First Engine:
RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
RPM = 52.52
Second Engine:
RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
RPM = 5252
As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High RPM
application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
RPM, but same torque will not.
You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
(torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that speed,
however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine can
produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
with turning all of those accessories like power steering, altinator,
etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to die,
so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> Joey wrote:
>
> Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43394 From: wishmaaker <wishmaaker@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:34am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
Since I purchased my jeep I have heard rumors that a 4 cyc has more
torque then the I-6. Is there any truth to that?
TIA
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
>
> Joey K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
>
>
> Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
> how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower
is
> time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured
without
> reference to time.
>
> Some equations for you:
> Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
> Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
> RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce
500
> ft/lbs of torque.
>
> You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
> first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
> With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
>
> Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
> First Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
> RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
> RPM = 52.52
>
> Second Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
> RPM = 5252
>
> As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
> torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
>
> The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
> RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High
RPM
> application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
> RPM, but same torque will not.
>
> You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
> Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
> 1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
> HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
> guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
> 10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
> axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
>
> Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
> keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
> Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
> 2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
> the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
> the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
>
> So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
> such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
> instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
> the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
> given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
> (torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that
speed,
> however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine
can
> produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
> 100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
> engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
> with turning all of those accessories like power steering,
altinator,
> etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
> 500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to
die,
> so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
> it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
>
> Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> > Joey wrote:
> >
> > Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> > and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> > and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43395 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:54am
Subject: [FS] 81-95 CJ YJ SOFT HALF DOORS
Price: $75.00
Contact: SIMON LUKERT
1 PAIR BESTOP 1/2 DOORS SPICE USED ONLY ON 1 TRIP. WILL FIT 81TO95 CJ YJ SIMON 480 985 0933 NIGHTS.
SIMON LUKERT
43396 From: scottcmusgrave <scottcmusgrave@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 7:56am
Subject: Dying Polyurethane
Dose anyone know how to dye or color Polyurethane? I heard that you
can boil it with RIT dye, but I wanted to find out if any one had
done this or knows another way. I know you can't paint it. Whats left
a sharpy!!!
Thanks,
43397 From: Dan Sexton <sextonds@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 1:01am
Subject: Re: [Re: For all the non-believers]
Daystar Products has a lift for those Libertys
hunteroffroad@a... wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------
> Attachment:
> MIME Type: multipart/alternative
> ---------------------------------------------
No, I m pretty sure it is IFS. I was looking at that too, but the tires
arent at the right angles to be a solid axle. I saw them uip close at the
dealer. I honeslty fear the day someone wants a bumper built for one of
those........ I dont know about a swap, but I dont think that will be easy
either.
JOhn K
__________________________________________________ __________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1
43398 From: Jayke Thorpe <jeepboy_3@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:25am
Subject: Crown King
Well I did my first wheeling trip yesterday. We went
up to Crown King....AND WHAT A BLAST! Thank god there
was another member up there. I have a '98 ZJ, 3.5
lift, front air lockers, detroit rear, quick
disconnects. I must have gotten out about 8 or 9
times and told him there is absolutely NO WAY I can
make it up there. The ledge was tricky. One was a hill
with HUGE holles and bumps just past Fort Misery. I
stared at it for a good 5 minutes. When I finally
went up, I had such a rush I DID IT AGAIN! I had no
idea what a difference lockers, lift,
disconnects....oh yeah, and tire pressure makes. He
was quick to point out I should let my tires down from
45psi to 17psi. I am still on a HIGH! LETS GO!!!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
43399 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:37am
Subject: RE: horsepower modifications?
One of the mags did a test and slapped on a bunch of mods such as exhaust,
computer chip, intake, etc and only got a 2-4% improvement and sacrificed
lowe end torque to gain the higher end horsepower. What we all want in a
Jeep is is more low end torque, not high end horsepower.
Now the Hesco stroker kit on the other hand is a true mod that gets some low
end power by increasing your displacement from 4.0 to 4.7L which offers V8
torque and horsepower from the straight 6.
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/bryce/stroker/stroker.cfm
http://www.hescosc.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?3X364946#k
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/98/04_apr/cored2.html
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadow Wolf [mailto:shadowwolf@l...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:14 AM
To: flyboy0417@a...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Scott Kruize
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
What about those turbo city upgrades. They don't give a whole lot but every
little bit does from what I hear. Also they make a stroker kit for the
4.0L I-6 that is suppose to bump it up to 260hp and 350 lbs torque. But
other than that I don't know of any other than what Scott said.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
To: <flyboy0417@a...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
> Been around Jeeps for years. I've owned 2 of them. Short of a V8 swap or
> installing a supercharger save your money.
>
> One of the Jeep mags did some tests lately that agree with what I've been
> saying for years.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flyboy0417@a... [mailto:flyboy0417@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
>
>
> What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install
easily
> besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
43400 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:40am
Subject: RE: Re: horsepower modifications?
I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: wishmaaker [mailto:wishmaaker@y...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
Since I purchased my jeep I have heard rumors that a 4 cyc has more
torque then the I-6. Is there any truth to that?
TIA
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
>
> Joey K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
>
>
> Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
> how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower
is
> time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured
without
> reference to time.
>
> Some equations for you:
> Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
> Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
> RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce
500
> ft/lbs of torque.
>
> You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
> first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
> With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
>
> Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
> First Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
> RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
> RPM = 52.52
>
> Second Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
> RPM = 5252
>
> As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
> torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
>
> The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
> RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High
RPM
> application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
> RPM, but same torque will not.
>
> You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
> Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
> 1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
> HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
> guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
> 10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
> axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
>
> Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
> keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
> Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
> 2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
> the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
> the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
>
> So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
> such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
> instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
> the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
> given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
> (torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that
speed,
> however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine
can
> produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
> 100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
> engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
> with turning all of those accessories like power steering,
altinator,
> etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
> 500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to
die,
> so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
> it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
>
> Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> > Joey wrote:
> >
> > Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> > and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> > and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43401 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 8:30am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
Intake and exhaust are really the only way to go. Engine tuning is a waste
of time for most. Manufacturers talk about increases in HP or whatever,
but they take with one hand what they give with the other. *usable* power
is what you really need, and it's hard to come by. You don't really say
what you need the HP for (more low down pull, more speed getting up hills,
onroad power?). If you need more low down then your better off putting the
money into gearing. If you need more high end power then a spacer on your
carb can work. Dial-a-jet (not Dynojet) gives a noticeable increase where
you want it; low to mid-range. These things have been *the* mod on amateur
snowlseds and jet ski's for years. They broke into motorbikes a couple of
years ago and they're great. Not sure if you can get them for jeeps. They
pre-atomise the fuel (not just marketing nonsense).
Shaun
South Korea
What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install easily
besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.
43402 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 8:30am
Subject: Re: Has anyone buillt one of these?
I built on myself. It cost me around $20 in fittings and hose. Spend an
hour at a compressor supply store and you'll find most of the stuff you
need for a few dollars. There are some very well done pre-made units
available with a range of accessories that are built with offroad driving
in mind, but they cost. My next trick is to permanently mount it to my
rig. It's not hard to route the hosing safely along inside my rocker pro,
and have appropriate hoses feed from my a/c compressor into the cab so all
I have to do is get out, clip the 4 clamps on and then get back in the cab
and I can air down/up from there. I couldn't be bothered with packing up/
unpacking it every time. The only problem is preventing crud/ice from
building up in the valves....
Shaun
South Korea
Does anyone have or need one of these ?
Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
43403 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 8:31am
Subject: Re: Revolver Shackles - Pro or Con?
I don't run revolvers though i am probably going to change over to them
(after I save up a little cash etc). I've trailed with guys who use them
and I've done some research on the subject. There are better and worse
revolvers, you get what you pay for, much more than with normal
shackles. Cheaper ones drift around and can reverse accidentally when
getting too much flex. You will need super long shocks especially up front
when you install them, and be prepared for super flex (this is the main
reason you'd go with them).
Most guys who do a lot of spring/shackle lift find that they lose all their
flex. This was my case. I was running a pretty stock ride with swaybars
permanently removed at both ends. The shackles were wimpy little stock
items and seemed to drift about a bit, but I got excellent flex on the
trail. I changed over to a 2" spring lift, 2" shackle lift and used the
appropriate rancho 5000 series shocks. I was pretty miffed at how much
flex I lost. Though it seems a bit weird, the springs have to twist in
order for your rig to flex. As you start lifting the springs have to twist
more in order to get the same amount of flex. Having good quality heavy
duty stiff shackles only makes it worse. SOA conversions don't have the
same problem. While revolving shackles do give you more articulation, the
real joy to them is that most are also *revolving* shackles. This takes
all the stress off the leaf springs and you get back flex you only had in
your dreams before.
Your rig doesn't have a lot of lift, and you didn't mention whether you
have quick disconnects or not. You also don't say why you'd like to change
or what sort of trails you wheel. I'd say that if you're considering going
SOA in the future save your money, stick with your current shackles. If
you are thinking of going with a little more lift later and you've already
removed your sway bar(s) then revolvers might be for you. Bare in mind
you'll pay at least 4 times as much for them as for normal shackles. Don't
forget to ad the price of new shocks and you're getting closer to the cost
of a SOA. Steering shaft can also be a problem.
Shaun
South Korea
I am considering revolver shackles for my 74 CJ-5, which currently has
stock (?) springs, a 2" shackle lift, a one inch BL, with 33 X 12.50 X
15's mounted on 10" rims.
Comments either pro or con on the revolver shackles for this
application?
TIA
Bob
43404 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:45am
Subject: RE: Re: horsepower modifications?
Check out the March 2002 issue of JP magazine. They did some mods and have
dyno results printed on the 4 and 6 cylinder mtors. This should answer your
4 cyl torque question.
Read the article and then we can debate whether a few horsepower gained at
the expense of low end torque is really worth it.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:41 AM
To: wishmaaker; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: wishmaaker [mailto:wishmaaker@y...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
Since I purchased my jeep I have heard rumors that a 4 cyc has more
torque then the I-6. Is there any truth to that?
TIA
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
>
> Joey K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
>
>
> Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
> how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower
is
> time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured
without
> reference to time.
>
> Some equations for you:
> Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
> Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
> RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce
500
> ft/lbs of torque.
>
> You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
> first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
> With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
>
> Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
> First Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
> RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
> RPM = 52.52
>
> Second Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
> RPM = 5252
>
> As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
> torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
>
> The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
> RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High
RPM
> application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
> RPM, but same torque will not.
>
> You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
> Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
> 1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
> HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
> guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
> 10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
> axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
>
> Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
> keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
> Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
> 2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
> the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
> the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
>
> So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
> such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
> instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
> the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
> given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
> (torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that
speed,
> however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine
can
> produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
> 100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
> engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
> with turning all of those accessories like power steering,
altinator,
> etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
> 500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to
die,
> so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give
> it gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
>
> Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> > Joey wrote:
> >
> > Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> > and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> > and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43405 From: Bob Jacques <bjacques@m...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:45am
Subject: Where to buy a CB in East Valley
Hello, Can anyone advise me where to get a basic CB and Ant for my TJ in the
East Valley?? Emphasis on BASIC. Thanks, Bob J 02X
43406 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:55am
Subject: RE: Re: horsepower modifications?
Sound like something you'd here form one of those trash throwing, bypass
cutting, rock stacking, axle breaking, beer drinking, and 6-cyl envious
AZA members.
J/K
Couldn't resist
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:41 AM
To: wishmaaker; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: wishmaaker [mailto:wishmaaker@y...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
Since I purchased my jeep I have heard rumors that a 4 cyc has more
torque then the I-6. Is there any truth to that?
TIA
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Thanks for the lesson teach! I understand a bit better now. Thanks.
>
> Joey K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_jeeper_mike [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: horsepower modifications?
>
>
> Generally speaking, Torque is the ability to do work. Horsepower is
> how fast that work gets done. Part of the equation for horsepower
is
> time (i.e. Revolutions Per MINUTE) whereas Torque is measured
without
> reference to time.
>
> Some equations for you:
> Horse Power = (RPM x Torque)/5252
> Torque = (5252 x Horse Power)/RPM
> RPM = (5252 x Horse Power)/Torque
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You have two engines, one has 5hp and one has 500hp, both produce
500
> ft/lbs of torque.
>
> You connect this to an axle that will break at 500ftlbs. With the
> first engine (5hp) it slowly twists the axle until it snaps in half.
> With the second engine, it just instantly snaps the axle in half.
>
> Lets explore the reason why, using the third equation:
> First Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x HP)/T
> RPM = (5252 x 5)/500
> RPM = 52.52
>
> Second Engine:
> RPM = (5252 x 500)/500
> RPM = 5252
>
> As you can see, while both engines are creating the same amount of
> torque, the second is doing it at a much faster rate.
>
> The problem with most horsepower add ons, is that it they raise the
> RPM at which the power is made. This is why High Horsepower/High
RPM
> application will snap axles in a hurry, while a Lower Horsepower/Low
> RPM, but same torque will not.
>
> You want to see stuff break in a hurry, hook up one of those Pro-
> Stock Drag Racing engines to a Dana 44. Let say it makes
> 1000hp/1000ftlbs torque @5252 RPM (5252 is the RPM at which
> HP=Torque), I don't know what these guys run for gears, but I'm
> guessing when they take off from the line it is the neighborhood of
> 10:1. That means that 10,000 ftlbs of torque are going to the rear
> axles @ about 525 RPM (Engine RPM/Gear Ratio).
>
> Now take that same D44 and put it behind one of our built Jeeps. To
> keep things simple lets say a 5:1 first gear (standard), 4:1
> Transfercase and 4:1 and lets say our Jeep engine makes 250ft/lbs at
> 2000 RPM. 5 x 4 x 4 = 80 and 80 x 250 = 20,000 LOOK AT THAT! Twice
> the amount of torque at the axle as our Pro-Stock car example. But,
> the difference is the axles are only spinning at 25 RPM.
>
> So why aren't we going through axles faster? Two reasons. 1. Parts
> such as axles tend to resist slow steady torque much better than
> instantaneous fast torque (i.e. launching that Pro-Stock car out of
> the hole) AND #2. Engines don't produce the maximum HP/Torque at a
> given RPM always. For instance when you accelerate, more energy
> (torque) is needed to get your Jeep up to speed. Once at that
speed,
> however, not as much power is needed. For instance if your engine
can
> produce 100hp at 500rpm (Idle), does that mean that it is producing
> 100hp when you're sitting at a light with the clutch in? No, the
> engine is only producing enough power to keep itself running (along
> with turning all of those accessories like power steering,
altinator,
> etc..) Now off road is a different story, say you're idling along at
> 500rpm over some rocks. You can tell when the engine is about to
die,
> so you give it some more gas -- at that point (just before you give it
> gas) the engine is producing it's maximum of 100hp.
>
> Does this help, or am I just making things worse???
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Kilr650@a... wrote:
> > Joey wrote:
> >
> > Question for anyone. Is there a difference in horsepower for speed
> > and horsepower for torque? Or does horsepower just mean horsepower
> > and it is the back of the engine that controls the torque.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43407 From: Randall A.Mutter <ramaz@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:52am
Subject: RE: Where to buy a CB in East Valley
Hi Bob
I got mine at Radio Shack.com store at Country Club + Southern (the old
Home Depot location). They have a nice selection at good prices. There
was even a sales person there that was very helpful.
Good luck
Randy
Randall A. Mutter 95XJ, 76 CJ-7
ramaz@c...
Thank goodness there are no 12 step programs for Jeeping...
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:45 AM
To: 'az_vjc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] Where to buy a CB in East Valley
Hello, Can anyone advise me where to get a basic CB and Ant for my TJ in
the
East Valley?? Emphasis on BASIC. Thanks, Bob J 02X
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43408 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:55am
Subject: Re: horsepower modifications?
JP, I believe it was, did that test. If you look (and read) closely, you'll see that they really got nothing !!!!! It wasn't 2 ~ 4%, but maybe 2 ~ 4 hp, but that's all well within the error margin of the dyno.
The strokers do seem to produce some useful gains, and I think one of the superchargers does/did (the Rimmer one maybe). The other superchargers certainly produce more HP and torque, but it's all about what I would consider "useable" range, like above 3000 RPM.. Even the test in the magazine (JP ?) they didn't start looking at the results until above 2000 RPM, and most of the "gain" was seen way above that. When I'm wheeling, I'm rearly above 2000 rpm, maybe a little in the 2000 ~ 2500 range. BTW, the magazine qualified the results, or should I say, lack of results (I'm sure to try and please the advetisers), by saying "well, the vehicle *felt* better or *sounded* better. Hell that and $0.55 will buy me a soda.
Cheers,
Fred
Scott Kruize wrote:
One of the mags did a test and slapped on a bunch of mods such as exhaust,computer chip, intake, etc and only got a 2-4% improvement and sacrificedlowe end torque to gain the higher end horsepower. What we all want in aJeep is is more low end torque, not high end horsepower.Now the Hesco stroker kit on the other hand is a true mod that gets some lowend power by increasing your displacement from 4.0 to 4.7L which offers V8torque and horsepower from the straight 6.http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/bryce/stroker/stroker.cfmhttp://www.hescosc.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?3X364946#khttp://www.off-road.com/jee
p/cherokee/98/04_apr/cored2.htmlScott K-----Original Message-----From: Shadow Wolf [mailto:shadowwolf@lvcm.com]Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:14 AMTo: flyboy0417@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Scott KruizeSubject: Re: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?What about those turbo city upgrades. They don't give a whole lot but everylittle bit does from what I hear. Also they make a stroker kit for the4.0L I-6 that is suppose to bump it up to 260hp and 350 lbs torque. Butother than that I don't know of any other than what Scott said.David----- Original Message -----From: "Scott Kruize" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:41 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
Been around Jeeps for years. I've owned 2 of them. Short of a V8 swap orinstalling a supercharger save your money.One of the Jeep mags did some tests lately that agree with what I've beensaying for years.Scott K-----Original Message-----From: flyboy0417@aol.com [mailto:flyboy0417@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install
easily
besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
43409 From: Shepherd, Blake <blakeshepherd@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:57am
Subject: RE: horsepower modifications?
I wish my 4 banger TJ had more high RPM power. It is fine off-road, just need a little more punch on the hwy.
Blake
80CJ5
01 TJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred [mailto:fredtj@home.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:56 AM
To: Scott Kruize
Cc: AZ_VJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
JP, I believe it was, did that test. If you look (and read) closely, you'll see that they really got nothing !!!!! It wasn't 2 ~ 4%, but maybe 2 ~ 4 hp, but that's all well within the error margin of the dyno.
The strokers do seem to produce some useful gains, and I think one of the superchargers does/did (the Rimmer one maybe). The other superchargers certainly produce more HP and torque, but it's all about what I would consider "useable" range, like above 3000 RPM.. Even the test in the magazine (JP ?) they didn't start looking at the results until above 2000 RPM, and most of the "gain" was seen way above that. When I'm wheeling, I'm rearly above 2000 rpm, maybe a little in the 2000 ~ 2500 range. BTW, the magazine qualified the results, or should I say, lack of results (I'm sure to try and please the advetisers), by saying "well, the vehicle *felt* better or *sounded* better. Hell that and $0.55 will buy me a soda.
Cheers,
Fred
Scott Kruize wrote:
One of the mags did a test and slapped on a bunch of mods such as exhaust,computer chip, intake, etc and only got a 2-4% improvement and sacrificedlowe end torque to gain the higher end horsepower. What we all want in aJeep is is more low end torque, not high end horsepower.Now the Hesco stroker kit on the other hand is a true mod that gets some lowend power by increasing your displacement from 4.0 to 4.7L which offers V8torque and horsepower from the straight 6.http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/bryce/stroker/stroker.cfmhttp://www.hescosc.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?3X364946#khttp://www.off-road.com/jee
p/cherokee/98/04_apr/cored2.htmlScott K-----Original Message-----From: Shadow Wolf [mailto:shadowwolf@lvcm.com]Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:14 AMTo: flyboy0417@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Scott KruizeSubject: Re: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?What about those turbo city upgrades. They don't give a whole lot but everylittle bit does from what I hear. Also they make a stroker kit for the4.0L I-6 that is suppose to bump it up to 260hp and 350 lbs torque. Butother than that I don't know of any other than what Scott said.David----- Original Message -----From: "Scott Kruize" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:41 PMSubject: RE: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?
Been around Jeeps for years. I've owned 2 of them. Short of a V8 swap orinstalling a supercharger save your money.One of the Jeep mags did some tests lately that agree with what I've beensaying for years.Scott K-----Original Message-----From: flyboy0417@aol.com [mailto:flyboy0417@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PMTo: az_vjc@yahoogroups.comSubject: [az_vjc] horsepower modifications?What are some horsepower mods i that are under 300 bucks and install
easily
besides intake and exhaust??? I have a 4.0L six cyl.Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.