Meeting Time Again.... Tonto Fs

[Sandee McCullen]

RED SHIRT time again..............Tonto Forest is starting into their forest planning that will include how the TRANSPORTATION PLANNING fits into the Forest Planning. As has been seen within Forest Planning/Transportation Planning so far from other forests across the country.............. They don't seem to choose to follow the Transportation Rule as set forth from Washington so many are doing something different.

OHV do a lot of recreating in Tonto........ We MUST ATTEND THESE MEETINGS AND BE INVOLVED IN WHAT'S HAPPENING. Don't assume they're the same as Coconino or A-S or Prescott.......... they are not. PLEASE ASK: "Will there be consistency between Tonto Ranger Districts on 'how' they arrive at decisions and/or designations." AND "WHO do we go to for clarification or help if Ranger Districts are doing something different."

PLEASE MARK YOUR CALENDARS ..................... I'm told by the Tonto Supervisor all the presentations will "basically" be the same but there may be differences so suggestion is to attend at least one from each of the three districts if possible. The bottom line is WE MUST be involved to insure our trails are included although these meetings are strictly explaining HOW the Forest Planning and Transportation fit together and how we are to work with each district regarding route inventories or designations. If we don't......... we lose.

If someone would send me a short report of their experience and what they heard it will help OHV build Planning Plans to present as a recreation group. Thanks. Sandee sandee@mccullens.com

Dear Forest Stakeholder,

The Tonto National Forest (TNF) in Arizona has begun the initial stages of revising its forest management plan. The revision process will be collaborative, and the plan that is developed will be strategic. The revised plan will help guide management decisions but will not authorize nor prohibit any activities.
The first steps to plan revision will include a determination of what is not working and needs to be changed from current management. Once a list of items that need change from the current plan is developed, we will begin to prioritize it and identify in what way those plan elements should change.
There are different ways for you to be involved in this plan revision process. You may attend one of the public meetings that will be held in each of the six districts of the TNF (locations, dates, and times are listed below), you may become part of a working group to focus on individual revision topics, and you may submit comments either by postal mail or via the Internet. There will also be consultation and collaboration with State, local, and other Federal agencies and with American Indian tribes. See the attached document describing some of these opportunities.
(See attached file: revision_steps.doc)
Public Collaboration Meeting Locations, Dates, and Times
Payson –
February 26, 5:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
Tonto Room, Best Western Inn at Payson Pleasant Valley –
February 27, 5:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
Pleasant Valley Community Center
Globe –
March 2, 5:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
Besh-Ba-Gowah Archeological Park conference room Mesa –
March 5, 5:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
Saguaro Room, Mesa Public Library
64 East 1 Street, Mesa AZ
Tonto Basin –
March 7, 5:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
Tonto Basin Elementary School gymnasium Cave Creek/North Phoenix –
March 13, 5:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
Paradise Valley Community College, Bldg KSC, Rm 208
For more information on plan revision, public involvement opportunities, and how to contact us, please go to our plan revision website at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/plan-revision/index.shtml. This web site will be updated periodically as new information becomes available.

Sincerely,

Tonto National Forest Planning Team

[RufftyTuffty]

Jez...all we need now is State Land Trust to hold their own meetings and we'll have a hacktrick....why all NOW?

[Hackle]

I put them on my schedule and e-mailed the RockRats to help out.
Jim F.

[Sandee McCullen]

Jez...all we need now is State Land Trust to hold their own meetings and we'll have a hacktrick....why all NOW?

Best be glad State Trust don't do public meetings..........

The BLM are in 8 ACTIVE land use plans right now with 3 more starting within the year. Forest, on a National Level, are all doing Forest Plans AND Transportation Plans and they all have to be done within 3 years!!!

Sorry.............. I wish I could make this different but I really cannot do it all. My calendar is booking 2 & sometimes 3 meetings a day. Besides, I do not know all the areas needed or the favorites of everyone. This truly does need the participation of EVERYONE.............. I know we won't get everyone but it would sure be nice to have 20 or so from each district (BLM & FS) to work specifically with that one district. Would take a lot of stress off those that try covering it all.

Hope to see bunches of RED SHIRTS here however as these meetings are to tell us what, when and where we need to be involved.

[Antman]

I will try to get to some of these Sandy.

[WalterD]

RED SHIRT time again..............

What's the deal with red shirts?
Walter

[Sandee McCullen]

What's the deal with red shirts?
Walter

Show of UNITY.......... also shows the, hopefully, NUMBERS FROM OHV. Be it intimidating or simply showing we CARE. It works.

[rockwerks]

I will be at the 7th meeting. the only one possible for me to make

[RufftyTuffty]

Do we need/have a trail inventory for Tonto?

[Sandee McCullen]

Do we need/have a trail inventory for Tonto?

We will NEED an inventory but FS is not doing it......... We have an actual "route inventory" AND "evaluation" of the Sycamore area but the only "inventory" within the forest as a whole is the existing Transportation System. Forest Service is leaving identification of routes up to US. However, these first meetings will be directed at telling us HOW the Forest Plans and Transportation Plans will work and how we fit into them.

We will need to submit ALL GPS, drawing lines on maps, or aerial maps of our trails above and beyond the roads/trails within FS Transportation Systems. (Signed trails).

Many of us attended the Forest Planning meetings with Coconino Forest a couple of months ago........... They are now into the "at the table" working with recreationists (hopefully a good number of OHV) to develop a Forest Plan and Transportation Plan for Coconino. They are doing things much different than Tonto plans on doing. Tonto will do District by District. Coconino did the entire Forest. Coronado also did the entire forest.

We need to be involved and attend at least one of these upcoming meetings to understand what we need to do.

[WalterD]

Show of UNITY.......... also shows the, hopefully, NUMBERS FROM OHV. Be it intimidating or simply showing we CARE. It works.

So even if I don't have any clue as to what's going on, showing up with a red shirt helps?
Walter

[Sandee McCullen]

So even if I don't have any clue as to what's going on, showing up with a red shirt helps?
Walter

Absolutely.
It will HELP you to understand what FS they need to do under direction of mandates as well as what they expect or need from us to complete a Forest Plan as well as how the Transportation planning fits into all this.

[T.C.'S TOY]

Best be glad State Trust don't do public meetings..........

The BLM are in 8 ACTIVE land use plans right now with 3 more starting within the year. Forest, on a National Level, are all doing Forest Plans AND Transportation Plans and they all have to be done within 3 years!!!

Sorry.............. I wish I could make this different but I really cannot do it all. My calendar is booking 2 & sometimes 3 meetings a day. Besides, I do not know all the areas needed or the favorites of everyone. This truly does need the participation of EVERYONE.............. I know we won't get everyone but it would sure be nice to have 20 or so from each district (BLM & FS) to work specifically with that one district. Would take a lot of stress off those that try covering it all.

Hope to see bunches of RED SHIRTS here however as these meetings are to tell us what, when and where we need to be involved.

We will be there .....Sandee i pm'ed you.....Thom

[Antman]

I got a letter from Tonto and will go to the Payson meeting tonight at 5:30!

You folks all try to get to one of these meetings, Please. :D

[Antman]

I just got back from the meeting in Payson. This was not a Trail inventory meeting or such. That will come from another group.
This was one of three scoping meetings.

We were represented fairly well with about 30 out of 75 or so people there.
If only some of the Payson club, not the HCR, would learn to wear RED!
I saw at least 10 jeepers from that group NOT WEARING RED! When asked where their
red shirts were.........."OH, I forgot!" ???? Duh! If your going to go to one of
these meetings please were a RED SHIRT!

Anyway, we were broke up into groups and herded through the process and
came up with mostly wanting more law enforcement for trashed areas and
either keeping all trails open to all or designated trail systems. Bring back
limited logging and thinning in the forest for fire management and economic
growth in rural communities.

Some Idiot even suggested giving back land to the Indians that were taken
away from them in the past!!! BTW I am part Indian, but it wasn't me! :eek:

The one thing that was told to us that gave me some encouragement was
that each local forest in the state would make its decisions locally. In other
words the local forest manager would have the final say in what was implemented.:rolleyes: ;)

[1BLKJP]

Thanks for the update Bill. What kind of relationship do you all have with the local forest manager up there for the Tonto?

[Sandee McCullen]

I just got back from the meeting in Payson. This was not a Trail inventory meeting or such. That will come from another group.
This was one of three scoping meetings.

We were represented fairly well with about 30 out of 75 or so people there.
If only some of the Payson club, not the HCR, would learn to wear RED!
I saw at least 10 jeepers from that group NOT WEARING RED! When asked where their
red shirts were.........."OH, I forgot!" ???? Duh! If your going to go to one of
these meetings please were a RED SHIRT!

Anyway, we were broke up into groups and herded through the process and
came up with mostly wanting more law enforcement for trashed areas and
either keeping all trails open to all or designated trail systems. Bring back
limited logging and thinning in the forest for fire management and economic
growth in rural communities.

Some Idiot even suggested giving back land to the Indians that were taken
away from them in the past!!! BTW I am part Indian, but it wasn't me! :eek:

The one thing that was told to us that gave me some encouragement was
that each local forest in the state would make its decisions locally. In other
words the local forest manager would have the final say in what was implemented.:rolleyes: ;)

Thanks for the info and THANKS for attending........... Remember that each individual forest doing their own plan vs each "ranger district" doing their own thing are two different things. I'm concerned about Tonto being the only forest that is allowing each ranger district to do their own plan. The CONSISTENCY drops quickly.............
PERSONAL OPINION MANY TIMES OUTWEIGHS OUTREACH.

Each forest is doing a "strategic plan" rather than a detailed Management Plan. This simply means they are looking at the overall picture for the Forest Plan......... individual areas or activities will be designated as time moves on and the NEPA will be done on a "site specific" plan. This is good but balancing a "forest" against each ranger district within a forest it could get confusing and very inconsistent.

Tonto has some of the best planners to work with but there are still some "old timers" that don't like to join the new world. We don't have much choice but if we stay involved we do have a voice.

[Antman]

Sandy, In my reply above, I stated that it was the Forest Manager, not the local
District Ranger. In other words the decision for Tonto would be made by the
top Tonto Manager, not each Tonto district Ranger.

Having said that, It's possible that the other 5 forest districts can come up with
something total different in their area. :eek:

It appears as if Washington wants more local input calling the shots. But, after
next year, who knows, this whole thing may be scrapped and we have to
start over.:confused: POLITICS!

[T.C.'S TOY]

Sandy, In my reply above, I stated that it was the Forest Manager, not the local
District Ranger. In other words the decision for Tonto would be made by the
top Tonto Manager, not each Tonto district Ranger.

Having said that, It's possible that the other 5 forest districts can come up with
something total different in their area. :eek:

It appears as if Washington wants more local input calling the shots. But, after
next year, who knows, this whole thing may be scrapped and we have to
start over.:confused: POLITICS!

Thanks for posting Bill and well said.....Thom (T.C.'S TOY);)

[Sandee McCullen]

Sandy, In my reply above, I stated that it was the Forest Manager, not the local
District Ranger. In other words the decision for Tonto would be made by the
top Tonto Manager, not each Tonto district Ranger.

Having said that, It's possible that the other 5 forest districts can come up with
something total different in their area. :eek:

It appears as if Washington wants more local input calling the shots. But, after
next year, who knows, this whole thing may be scrapped and we have to
start over.:confused: POLITICS!

We'll see.................. interesting that's what you were told. Yes, the Tonto Supervisor has final say over everything but he will not be specifically involved in each ranger district planning or designations.
To EVERYONE: For those that are attending the upcoming meetings please pay attention or ask "who" makes the decisions and be clear of the actual steps that are taken. PLease remember each district seem to have a different idea of what's happening. Payson is probably one of the most "open" towards OHV's.

[Antman]

We'll see.................. interesting that's what you were told. Yes, the Tonto Supervisor has final say over everything but he will not be specifically involved in each ranger district planning or designations.
To EVERYONE: For those that are attending the upcoming meetings please pay attention or ask "who" makes the decisions and be clear of the actual steps that are taken. PLease remember each district seem to have a different idea of what's happening. Payson is probably one of the most "open" towards OHV's.

I agree Sandee. The Payson district has done a lot to cooperate with OHV
up there in the past. But, there are still some stumbles.

[DAKOTA]

I know as far as Coconino F/S ranger around Blue Ridge he wants everything closed ,gated and locked down with no exceptions so there are many rangers/managers on there own agenda. Thanks for the info on the meeting.

[Symon623]

Everything I look for on the 7th meeting comes up in Globe? Is this where it is? Or is it in Phoenix/Cave Creek?

Thanks

[Antman]

Everything I look for on the 7th meeting comes up in Globe? Is this where it is? Or is it in Phoenix/Cave Creek?

Thanks

The March 7th meeting will be at the Tonto Basin Elementary school
in the gymnasium.
The Cave Creek meeting will be March 13th at Paradise Valley Community
College, building KSC room 208, 18401 N. 32nd street, Phoenix, AZ

All meetings wil be at 5:30pm to 8:30pm.

I will posty an agenda from Tonto as soon as I can scan it in.

[Antman]

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9849&stc=1&d=1172854869


http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9850&stc=1&d=1172855326




OOPPS! Sorry about the size.:o


THE NEXT MEETING FOR THE PAYSON RANGER DISTRICT IS MARCH 25TH.

[Sandee McCullen]

The March 7th meeting will be at the Tonto Basin Elementary school
in the gymnasium.
The Cave Creek meeting will be March 13th at Paradise Valley Community
College, building KSC room 208, 18401 N. 32nd street, Phoenix, AZ

All meetings wil be at 5:30pm to 8:30pm.

I will posty an agenda from Tonto as soon as I can scan it in.

Apologies for the late post but I'll be heading to Globe to the Tonto meeting late this afternoon. If anyone wants a ride please let me know. Cell is 480.688.8132 however I'll be in a meeting 1:00 - 3:00 so you'll just get voice mail. I will return calls after the meeting.

I will also stop at the Jack in the Box at Gold Canyon (m.p. 201) around 4:15 - 4:30 to see if anyone is there wanting to car pool.

The Globe meeting is at the Besh-Ba-Gowah Archaeological Park Conference Rm. 1100 Jess Hayes Road.

[Symon623]

Thanks Bill and Sandee....Just realized I am off school the week of the 12th for spring break and I'm too old and too poor to go to Cancun (SP). So I'll be at the meeting on the 13th. :D

[Sandee McCullen]

REMINDER.............

Tonto Forest Planning meeting in MESA, Monday evening from 5:30 - 8:30 p.m.
Mesa Public Library, Saguaro Room; 64 East 1st Street, Mesa

I attended the meeting in Globe last night and they are conducting true "PUBLIC PARTICIPATION" programs. We ARE at the table and we ARE being listened to.
PLEASE try and make it to this meeting. We aren't discussing any specific trails or their designations but we do need to identify specific areas that are special to us and ways to proceed responsibly with new views and/or ideas from the 1980's when FS simply did their own thing. Remember.......... WE ARE A STAKEHOLDER IN MANAGEMENT OF OUR PUBLIC LANDS AND WE ARE THE SPECIALIST WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT'S HAPPENING AND WHATS NEEDED FOR OHV.
We need YOU to join in and be heard. THANKS

Two more meetings to follow Mesa: Tonto Basin, March 7 and Cave Creek on March 13.

[Symon623]

Isn't the 3/13 meeting at Paradise Valley CC?

[Sandee McCullen]

Isn't the 3/13 meeting at Paradise Valley CC?

Yes.
3/7: Tonto Basin District, Tonto Forest planning meeting will be at the Tonto Basin Elementary School gymnasium, 1 School Street, Tonto Basin AZ.
3/13: Cave Creek District, Tonto Forest planning meeting will be at the Paradise Valley Community College, Building KSC, Rm 208, 18401 N. 32nd Street, Phoenix AZ.
All meetings are 5:30 - 8:30. A quick presentation at 5:30 with the remaining time for stakeholders to work together in smaller groups to state their needs, wants, & ideas. Meetings are not a "one on one" discussion. Everyone is working together.

[Fire Ball]

If I get my work done on my jeep by then I'll try to make the meeting tonight. Red shirts still the fashion statement of the day?

[Sandee McCullen]

If I get my work done on my jeep by then I'll try to make the meeting tonight. Red shirts still the fashion statement of the day?

Highly suggested but certainly not mandatory. Bodies are more important than color of shirts but the visual of seeing OHV interest and support is a definite plus.

[Fire Ball]

I'm free so me and the wife are going and will be dressed in our best red, or should I say only red shirts :)

[Fire Ball]

BUMP

Land use meeting tonight
March 13, 5:30 p.m. ? 8:30 p.m.
Paradise Valley Community College, Bldg KSC, Rm 208
18401 N. 32nd St. PHX AZ 85032

These meetings give us a Chance to voice our opinion on how we think Tonto National Forrest should form their use plans. WE NEED TO BE THERE. Don't forget to wear your red shirts.

[rockwerks]

how come all these meetings take place so far away from me. really hard to get down to them with a 3 hour drive one way

[Fire Ball]

I live in east AJ and I'm making the drive. Also turned down 5 1/2 hours of OT to be able to make it.

[russ1688]

I'll be there.