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Subject: Yahoo! Autos az_vjc Messages 151-165 of 86359
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151 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 3, 1998 5:45am
Subject: Re: Web site updated with box canyon and coke ovens trails
Great web page! The whole White Canyon and Box Canyon areas are really
great. You actually can get from the coke ovens to Box Canyon and
Martinez Canyon, but it makes for a very long trip. Would be a great
overnight, since there is so much four wheelin the area.
This is a must trip for AzVJC.
Doug
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152 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 5, 1998 4:28pm
Subject: Re: My introduction
Jeff Meade wrote:
>
> Hi all --
>
> I caught a note on www.rockcrawler.com about this AZ group and I thought I'd (hopefully) partake in some group 'wheeling with you guys.
>
> I've got a '98 XJ that's seen quite a number of trails here in AZ as well as had it's first trip to Moab in September.
>
> Hope it's not too late to tail along the Mud Springs outing this Saturday ... if not, count me in!
Jeff - Welcome to AzVJC. Your more than welcome to join us this
Saturday for the Mud Springs trip. We're meeting at 10a at the start of
the trail. If you go to the list-serv site for AzVJC, and go through the
messages, there's one there with directions. If you can't find it let us
know and we'll re-post. It is a class 4 trail, so it's fairly
challenging. There is a short trail description in the archives also.
There's some rock crawling and a very challenging hill near the end of
the trail.
Post a note if your coming, and we'll look for you at the assembly
point.
There's also a second run planned this month (class 3), and you could
find this info also in the list-serv archive messages.
On another note, one of the concepts behind the formation of this group
is the sharing of trail info...so if you have any favorites you'd like
to suggest, please feel free to do so, and list general directions,
level of difficulty (Jeep scale of 1 to 5), points of interest, etc.
DougB
98TJ
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153 From: daballard@p...
Date: Sun Nov 8, 1998 4:07pm
Subject: Mud Springs Trail report
Those attending were Dan (Revolvr-TJ); Ed(Coyote-CJ); Jeff and friend(XJ); and myself(Doug-TJ). We assembled at the trail head at about 10:15a (FR1704 - east off SR87 at Sycamore Creek - 8.5 mi north of Four Peaks Road. We aired down and disconnected, and got off at about 10:30.
Finding the beginning of the trail is a bit tough, since there are many trails criss-crossing the area. Head north after the spill way and follow the most obvious route to the east, and you'll find it. Trial and error may be needed. If you cross a small corale on your left, your on the right track.
The first half of the trail is slow going and rocky. Not particularly hard, just kinda pain in the butt stuff.
After a while the trail enters a small valley, and heads generally north. There'll be a small cattle tank on the right, and after this, we crossed a small stair step, which led to a hair pin to the right, and larger stairs. These were fun, except for Jeff - who had a problem half way up.
He was carrying both gas and water cans in the back of his XJ, and one of them tipped over and was spilling all over the place. Not knowing which can was spilling, Jeff stopped halfway up the stairs, and jumped out...man, did he move fast. Fortunately, it was the water can.
(As an aside, back at the hair pin, at the large wash, there's supposed to be a hiking trail that heads generally to the north east, to Boulder Bob's cabin, and beyond. It may be worth checking out on a future trip).
From this point, the trail generally heads up to the east. After awhile, you'll see a Jeep trail which heads to the left (north) from FR1704. Dan and I explored this on our way back...looking for a camp site. It's a little used trail, which dead ends at a wash. No good camping sites here, but it did look like there was a hiking trail across the wash, that might be worth exploring, for those so inclined.
We continued up FR1704 and after a bit, came to a fork in the road. 1704 heads to the right (south). The straight ahead fork dead ends at a corale.
From this point on the trail is called the Pipeline Trail, which is immediately obvious, from the pipe that lay along the way.
We continued south till we came to a bowl, surrounded by large boulders. Some camping sites could be found here, but our attention was directed to a major hill ahead of us that looked pretty intimidating.
We took this opportunity to stretch out legs and survey the situation. The hill contained large boulders, mogals and wash outs. We all walked our way up, planning this move and that....how to get past a large wash out, how to get past a set of large boulders, etc.
After contemplating the origins of the universe for awhile, we decided to give it a try. Jeff and his SuperXJ was first, with the rest of us spotting along the way. After several attempts to get the right line, Jeff headed up. At one large wash out, about half way up, you have to transition to the right, and here Jeff lifted his left front wheel about 3 to 4 feet off the ground...but he made it thanks to his L/S rear end. He continued up, past some large boulders and made it to the top, to a standing ovation.
I was next to try the monster, and fought my way up. I banged my gas tank pretty good on a large boulder that Jeff had chipped away at previously, but not a problem...gotta love that Tomkin skid plate! I made my way to the top, whew!
Ed was next, and with his 33's and ARB front locker, he made it up slick as you please.
Dan was next, and got the high jump award. At the large wash out, he lifted his left front about 4 feet up, but made it find. He also nailed the large boulder w/ his Tomkin. Collectively, we probably knocked an inch or so of rock off that boulder.
Once all were at the top, we took one look back, thinking that we've gotta go back down that thing, and also thinking that the worst was over...wrong. After some challenging trail sections, we came to a section that contained large rocks and boulders with no clear line. We all got out and walked up the trail to see what lay ahead. Another very steep hill, with alot of loose decomposed granite.
We decided that the better part of valor was to head back. At this point, Jeff, in turning around, took a short side trail, and got his front diff. up on a large rock. Using his trusty hi-lift jack, we raised the front and loaded rocks under his wheels. He made it up fine.
Back at the hill, some fun was had by all. Going down is generally more hairy than going up, and this hill was no exception to that rule. Near the top, Ed got his left wheels in a washout, and started to tip over. Luckily, Dan and I were near at hand, and pulled him back down from the passenger side of his CJ. I road it like an out-rigger (hanging on his roll bar and windshield), with Dan hanging on to the right rear...till he got out of the washout. If he was gonna go over at this point, I figured I'd probably go flying over the jeep and into the brush, but anything for a fellow Jeepster.
The rest of the trip back was uneventfull. About half way down, Dan and I started looking for camp sites, while Ed and Jeff headed on down and back to town.
Dan and I found a nice flat spot, with some beautiful views. At night, the lights of Phoenix were visible in the distance. The moon rose at about 10 or so, and cast an eery pale on the valley we were in. In the morning, we were greeted by a stupendous view of the sun hitting the mountains to the west.
All in all, an excellent trip!
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154 From: Revolvr@a...
Date: Mon Nov 9, 1998 3:26pm
Subject: More Mud Springs observations
Excellent trip report Doug. I'll add in my 2 cents too.
I was told I won the high jump award both going up the hill and going
down. I'm not sure what my prize is, perhaps a new dent in my nerf bar!
Jeff and his friend were the official trip photographers. I hope to get
some of these pictures posted for everyone. We had a few great photo
ops.
I think we all scraped bottom a few times, except perhaps for Ed with
his 33 inch tires. I looked carefully under my Jeep and inventoried all
of the scratches, scrapes and dents. Here's the list:
Hit both left and right sides of the Tomken gas tank skid plate. No
damage save for some paint scraped off. I must also praise this skid
plate. Any time this plate meets rock, the plate wins.
Had a few other scrapes on the skid plate near the center.
Both nerf bars scraped on various places, all on the underside where it
isn't visible.
One dent in right nerf bar up front where it is visible, but not bad.
Deep scratchs on plastic fender flare on right front aft of wheel well,
close to the dent in the nerf bar. I'm not sure what I hit here.
One scrape and a small dent on my oil pan. No real damage, but this is
the only dent that concerns me since it could have put the Jeep out of
commision. Looks like an oil pan skid plate is on my Christmas list.
The right rear lower control arm has scrapes on it. This is unusual
since the control arm is so close to the tire. Tells you how rocky the
trail was.
Left rear plastic bumper end cap has a good scrape on the bottom of it.
(The right rear end cap was removed after my last Class 4 adventure).
No evidence of any scrapes on either differential pumpkin. Looks like I
protected those fairly well. Either that or Jeff scraped all the rocks
flat first with his differentials!
I cleaned off all the areas where the paint was scraped off, then gave
them all a shot of Rust-Oleum gloss black spray paint, which I keep
around just for touching up where paint is scraped off. No real damage,
all of these scrapes were minor cosmetic scrapes only. Only the small
dent in the nerf bar would be visible to the casual observer.
All in all an excellent trip. Looking forward to seeing the pictures!
-- Dan
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155 From: RDMcF@a...
Date: Mon Nov 9, 1998 10:56pm
Subject: Fwd: More Mud Springs observations
Sounds like some well earned battle scars. I wish I could have joined you
guys, but I probably would have been out of my league on this trip anyway.
Question: Does anyone have any idea how effective the skid plates are on the
'97 Sport models? Mine came equipped with a few skid plates, and I honestly
haven't given much thought to upgrading or adding to them. Any thoughts?
Thanks for the help, and for the great trip reports.
Dan McFarlane
'97 TJ Sport
In a message dated 11/9/98 9:27:02 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Revolvr@a... writes:
> Hit both left and right sides of the Tomken gas tank skid plate. No
> damage save for some paint scraped off. I must also praise this skid
> plate. Any time this plate meets rock, the plate wins.
>
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From: Revolvr@a...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:26:28 EST
To: az_vjc@m...
Subject: [az_vjc] More Mud Springs observationsExcellent trip report Doug. I'll add in my 2 cents too.
I was told I won the high jump award both going up the hill and going
down. I'm not sure what my prize is, perhaps a new dent in my nerf bar!
Jeff and his friend were the official trip photographers. I hope to get
some of these pictures posted for everyone. We had a few great photo
ops.
I think we all scraped bottom a few times, except perhaps for Ed with
his 33 inch tires. I looked carefully under my Jeep and inventoried all
of the scratches, scrapes and dents. Here's the list:
Hit both left and right sides of the Tomken gas tank skid plate. No
damage save for some paint scraped off. I must also praise this skid
plate. Any time this plate meets rock, the plate wins.
Had a few other scrapes on the skid plate near the center.
Both nerf bars scraped on various places, all on the underside where it
isn't visible.
One dent in right nerf bar up front where it is visible, but not bad.
Deep scratchs on plastic fender flare on right front aft of wheel well,
close to the dent in the nerf bar. I'm not sure what I hit here.
One scrape and a small dent on my oil pan. No real damage, but this is
the only dent that concerns me since it could have put the Jeep out of
commision. Looks like an oil pan skid plate is on my Christmas list.
The right rear lower control arm has scrapes on it. This is unusual
since the control arm is so close to the tire. Tells you how rocky the
trail was.
Left rear plastic bumper end cap has a good scrape on the bottom of it.
(The right rear end cap was removed after my last Class 4 adventure).
No evidence of any scrapes on either differential pumpkin. Looks like I
protected those fairly well. Either that or Jeff scraped all the rocks
flat first with his differentials!
I cleaned off all the areas where the paint was scraped off, then gave
them all a shot of Rust-Oleum gloss black spray paint, which I keep
around just for touching up where paint is scraped off. No real damage,
all of these scrapes were minor cosmetic scrapes only. Only the small
dent in the nerf bar would be visible to the casual observer.
All in all an excellent trip. Looking forward to seeing the pictures!
-- Dan
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156 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 1998 6:41am
Subject: Re: Fwd: More Mud Springs observations
RDMcF@a... wrote:
> Question: Does anyone have any idea how effective the skid plates are on the
> '97 Sport models? Mine came equipped with a few skid plates, and I honestly
> haven't given much thought to upgrading or adding to them. Any thoughts?
>
Sorry you couldn't make the Mud Springs trip. Dan is setting up the
Table Mesa run, so hopefully we'll see you there.
As to skid plates, the most prone area on your 97TJ is the gas tank. The
stock plate is quite light and prone to damage. I consider replacing
this almost imperative. I can't speak highly enough of the Tomkin plate.
It's really tough. I slips right over the stock tank/plate and surrounds
the sides of the plastic gas tank (yep...it's plastic). I understand
that TeraFlex now makes one also, but havn't heard any first hand
reports about it.
Once you have your gas tank covered, your 90% there. Other plates to
look at cover the steering box; the oil pan and front diff. The problems
I've heard with the last one is loss in ground clearance. I'm thinking
about getting one for the front diff that I saw on a Web page. Bolts
right on the lower half of the diff, and looks like an upside-down
cattle guard on an old locomotive. Doesn't prevent the bottom from
hitting, so much as it protects the front cover. No loss in gound
clearance.
After the gas tank is taken care of, I'd probably go for good rocker
panel protection, since damage here can be quite expensive to fix. Good
nerf bars are something to look into. Some tuck right up to the rockers,
for minimum loss in ground clearance.
Doug
98TJ
AzVJC
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157 From: Revolvr@a...
Date: Tue Nov 10, 1998 1:55pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: More Mud Springs observations
In a message dated 11/10/98 4:56:41 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
RDMcF@a... writes:
> Question: Does anyone have any idea how effective the skid plates are on
the
> '97 Sport models? Mine came equipped with a few skid plates, and I
honestly
> haven't given much thought to upgrading or adding to them. Any thoughts?
>
The gas tank skid plate on my 98 TJ is just thin sheetmetal protecting the
plastic gas tank. It's probably OK on Class 3 trails; I never hit mine until I
tried Class 4 trails. It will not likely survive any significant impact, so I
would highly recommend an aftermarket skid plate. The Tomken sure does seem
tough.
The only other skid plate is the transfer case cover. This looks solid, and
I've never hit mine on anything.
Other protection I would suggest for Class 3 trails is some side panel
protection like nerf bars. I have Smittybilt 3 inch tubular nerf bars that so
far have proven to be quite tough. They do protrude out to the side quite a
bit (I wanted a step) and so are fairly likely to get scraped. You can get
leaner nerf bars; DougB has a set that fit snugly against the chasis. Jeff
Meade has even leaner bars on his XJ that look like little more than angle
iron. Be sure you get structurally sound bars. The MOPAR no-drill set for
example, looks tough but is actually cosmetic only.
Also have a hi-lift jack. The only trail damage I've seen on class 3 trails,
other than a minor scrape on the nerf bars, is a flat tire. And when tires go
out on the trail, they usually end up with a long gash in the sidewall that
isn't reparable.
Course, this assumes you're driving with care. I have seen a truck totaled on
a class 2 trail after flipping over because the driver was going a little too
fast down a hill and hit the brakes when he saw a Jeep coming up the hill.
For Class 4 trails, plan on an oil pan skid plate too.
-- Dan
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158 From: James A Langdon <yucca-man@j...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 1998 2:57pm
Subject: A Vet......
Thanks to all veterans and their families, and Happy 223d birthday to all
you Jarheads!
This found it's way to my Inbox from another vet, my father, a Naval
Lieutenant (jg) in Vietnam.
Jim
Sgt, USMC
WHAT IS A VET ??
Some veterans bear visible signs of their service: a missing limb, a
jagged scar, a certain look in the eye. Others may carry the evidence
inside them: a pin holding a bone together, a piece of shrapnel in the
leg - or perhaps another sort of inner steel: the soul's ally forged
in the refinery of adversity.
Except in parades, however, the men and women who have kept America
safe wear no badge or emblem.
You can't tell a vet just by looking.
What is a vet?
He is the cop on the beat who spent six months in Saudi Arabia
sweating two gallons a day making sure the armored personnel carriers
didn't run out of fuel.
He is the barroom loudmouth, dumber than five wooden planks, whose
overgrown frat-boy behavior is outweighed a hundred times in the cosmic
scales by four hours of exquisite bravery near the 38th parallel.
She - or he - is the nurse who fought against futility and went to
sleep sobbing every night for two solid years in Da Nang.
He is the POW who went away one person and came back another - or
didn't come back AT ALL.
He is the Quantico drill instructor who has never seen combat -but
has saved countless lives by turning, slouchy hill-billy rednecks
and no-account gang members into Marines, and teaching them to watch
each other's backs.
He is the parade - riding Legionnaire who pins on his ribbons and medals
with a prosthetic hand.
He is the career quartermaster who watches the ribbons and medals
pass him by.
He is the three anonymous heroes in The Tomb Of The Unknowns,
whose presence at the Arlington National Cemetery must forever preserve
the
memory of all the anonymous heroes whose valor dies unrecognized with
them on the battlefield or in the ocean's sunless deep.
He is the old guy bagging groceries at the supermarket - palsied now
and aggravatingly slow - who helped liberate a Nazi death camp and who
wishes all day long that his wife were still alive to hold him when the
nightmares come.
He also was my father, your father, grandfather, husband, brother,
uncle, cousin, and yes , all the females who bravely served and are
serving their country, for OUR freedom .
He is an ordinary and yet an extraordinary human being - a person
who offered some of his life's most vital years in the service of his
country, and who sacrificed his ambitions so others would not have to
sacrifice theirs.
He is a soldier and a savior and a sword against the darkness, and
he is nothing more than the finest, greatest testimony on behalf of the
finest, greatest nation ever known.
So remember, each time you see someone who has served or is serving
our country, just lean over and say "Thank You." That's all most people
need, and in most cases it will mean more than any medals they could
have been awarded or were awarded.
Two little words that mean a lot, "THANK YOU".
Remember: November 11th is Veterans Day
And don't forget to Fly The FLAG on Nov. 11th, with pride:
Alice
alicep@m... "Message From Massachusetts"
Thank You Veterans!
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159 From: RDMcF@a...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 1998 3:13am
Subject: Skid Plates
Thanks for the advice, everyone. Looks like I have some work to do (and money
to spend) before I do any serious off-roading. Are the parts you guys are
referring to sold locally, or through a catalog?
Thanks again for the help. And happy Veteran's Day to all you veterans.
Thank you for the sacrifices, big and small, that you and your families have
made for your country.
Dan McFarlane
'97 TJ Sport
USN 1976-1984
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160 From: TLCU72096@a...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 1998 8:20am
Subject: Re: A VET
Thanks Yucca-man! And, Happy veteran's day to all of our fellow veterans in
the group.
Larry - 94 YJ still working on the tranny.
Airborne Ranger, U.S. Army (1992-1997)
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161 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@f...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 1998 7:02pm
Subject: re: a vet
The same message was posted to the Full Size Jeep list with this at the
end.....
Thanks to all of you!
Len Sullivan
1978 J-10
>>>snip<<<
>"It is the soldier, not the reporter,
>Who has given us freedom of the press.
>It is the soldier, not the poet,
>Who has given us freedom of speech.
>It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
>Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
>It is the soldier,
>Who salutes the flag,
>Who serves beneath the flag,
>And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
>Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
>
>Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---------------------------------
>Thank you...
>Thank all you SOBs...;)
>
>Kenneth E. Wetherall ICQ 1672244
>Concord, CA. kenns9@e...
>
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162 From: James A Langdon <yucca-man@j...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 1998 10:13am
Subject: re: Skid Plates
Actually, you have a very capable trail vehicle in stock form. While the
potential for damage is there, there comes a point where you have to
decide whether to keep the truck on the streets and continue to add armor
to it, or go out and enjoy it, while adding pieces of armor as needed.
As far as the parts being available locally, most 4x shops in Phoenix
have (or can order) what you need.
Desert Rat (Rural and 60, Tempe) 838-7800
Fly-n-Hi (Country Club and Southern, Mesa) 962-7123
There are plenty of others, but these two are close enough that I drop in
from time to time to drool...er..shop.
Jim
73 CJ5 89 Cherokee
http://members.tripod.com/~Yucca_man/azjeep
Thanks for the advice, everyone. Looks like I have some work to do (and
money
to spend) before I do any serious off-roading. Are the parts you guys
are
referring to sold locally, or through a catalog?
Thanks again for the help. And happy Veteran's Day to all you veterans.
Thank you for the sacrifices, big and small, that you and your families
have
made for your country.
Dan McFarlane
'97 TJ Sport
USN 1976-1984
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163 From: Robert A. DiGiacomo <jarhead@a...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 1998 8:44am
Subject: Re: re: a vet
I'd just like to say the message a vet is ..... really hit home. Thanks gents.
Rob DiGiacomo
USMC (1993-1995)
The same message was posted to the Full Size Jeep list with this at the
> end.....
>
> Thanks to all of you!
>
> Len Sullivan
> 1978 J-10
>
>
> >>>snip<<<
>
> >"It is the soldier, not the reporter,
> >Who has given us freedom of the press.
> >It is the soldier, not the poet,
> >Who has given us freedom of speech.
> >It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
> >Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
> >It is the soldier,
> >Who salutes the flag,
> >Who serves beneath the flag,
> >And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
> >Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
> >
> >Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >---------------------------------
> >Thank you...
> >Thank all you SOBs...;)
> >
> >Kenneth E. Wetherall ICQ 1672244
> >Concord, CA. kenns9@e...
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com
>
>
>
-----
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164 From: daballard@p...
Date: Sat Nov 14, 1998 7:16am
Subject: BFG 31x 10.5 For Sale
For sale to a good (Jeep)home. 4 BFG 31x10.50 T/A's. 8,900 mi. $200.
Doug
98TJ
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165 From: daballard@p...
Date: Sun Nov 15, 1998 8:03am
Subject: Re: BFG 31x 10.5 For Sale
For sale to a good (Jeep)home. 4 BFG 31x10.50 T/A's. 8,900 mi. $200.
>
> Doug
> 98TJ
>
I'm also selling 4 15x8 OEM AR Gambler Aluminium rims for $250. The above referenced tires are still mounted on the rims...balanced and ready to go.
Doug
98TJ
-----
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Subject: Yahoo! Autos az_vjc Messages 151-165 of 86359
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151 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 3, 1998 5:45am
Subject: Re: Web site updated with box canyon and coke ovens trails
Great web page! The whole White Canyon and Box Canyon areas are really
great. You actually can get from the coke ovens to Box Canyon and
Martinez Canyon, but it makes for a very long trip. Would be a great
overnight, since there is so much four wheelin the area.
This is a must trip for AzVJC.
Doug
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152 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 5, 1998 4:28pm
Subject: Re: My introduction
Jeff Meade wrote:
>
> Hi all --
>
> I caught a note on www.rockcrawler.com about this AZ group and I thought I'd (hopefully) partake in some group 'wheeling with you guys.
>
> I've got a '98 XJ that's seen quite a number of trails here in AZ as well as had it's first trip to Moab in September.
>
> Hope it's not too late to tail along the Mud Springs outing this Saturday ... if not, count me in!
Jeff - Welcome to AzVJC. Your more than welcome to join us this
Saturday for the Mud Springs trip. We're meeting at 10a at the start of
the trail. If you go to the list-serv site for AzVJC, and go through the
messages, there's one there with directions. If you can't find it let us
know and we'll re-post. It is a class 4 trail, so it's fairly
challenging. There is a short trail description in the archives also.
There's some rock crawling and a very challenging hill near the end of
the trail.
Post a note if your coming, and we'll look for you at the assembly
point.
There's also a second run planned this month (class 3), and you could
find this info also in the list-serv archive messages.
On another note, one of the concepts behind the formation of this group
is the sharing of trail info...so if you have any favorites you'd like
to suggest, please feel free to do so, and list general directions,
level of difficulty (Jeep scale of 1 to 5), points of interest, etc.
DougB
98TJ
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153 From: daballard@p...
Date: Sun Nov 8, 1998 4:07pm
Subject: Mud Springs Trail report
Those attending were Dan (Revolvr-TJ); Ed(Coyote-CJ); Jeff and friend(XJ); and myself(Doug-TJ). We assembled at the trail head at about 10:15a (FR1704 - east off SR87 at Sycamore Creek - 8.5 mi north of Four Peaks Road. We aired down and disconnected, and got off at about 10:30.
Finding the beginning of the trail is a bit tough, since there are many trails criss-crossing the area. Head north after the spill way and follow the most obvious route to the east, and you'll find it. Trial and error may be needed. If you cross a small corale on your left, your on the right track.
The first half of the trail is slow going and rocky. Not particularly hard, just kinda pain in the butt stuff.
After a while the trail enters a small valley, and heads generally north. There'll be a small cattle tank on the right, and after this, we crossed a small stair step, which led to a hair pin to the right, and larger stairs. These were fun, except for Jeff - who had a problem half way up.
He was carrying both gas and water cans in the back of his XJ, and one of them tipped over and was spilling all over the place. Not knowing which can was spilling, Jeff stopped halfway up the stairs, and jumped out...man, did he move fast. Fortunately, it was the water can.
(As an aside, back at the hair pin, at the large wash, there's supposed to be a hiking trail that heads generally to the north east, to Boulder Bob's cabin, and beyond. It may be worth checking out on a future trip).
From this point, the trail generally heads up to the east. After awhile, you'll see a Jeep trail which heads to the left (north) from FR1704. Dan and I explored this on our way back...looking for a camp site. It's a little used trail, which dead ends at a wash. No good camping sites here, but it did look like there was a hiking trail across the wash, that might be worth exploring, for those so inclined.
We continued up FR1704 and after a bit, came to a fork in the road. 1704 heads to the right (south). The straight ahead fork dead ends at a corale.
From this point on the trail is called the Pipeline Trail, which is immediately obvious, from the pipe that lay along the way.
We continued south till we came to a bowl, surrounded by large boulders. Some camping sites could be found here, but our attention was directed to a major hill ahead of us that looked pretty intimidating.
We took this opportunity to stretch out legs and survey the situation. The hill contained large boulders, mogals and wash outs. We all walked our way up, planning this move and that....how to get past a large wash out, how to get past a set of large boulders, etc.
After contemplating the origins of the universe for awhile, we decided to give it a try. Jeff and his SuperXJ was first, with the rest of us spotting along the way. After several attempts to get the right line, Jeff headed up. At one large wash out, about half way up, you have to transition to the right, and here Jeff lifted his left front wheel about 3 to 4 feet off the ground...but he made it thanks to his L/S rear end. He continued up, past some large boulders and made it to the top, to a standing ovation.
I was next to try the monster, and fought my way up. I banged my gas tank pretty good on a large boulder that Jeff had chipped away at previously, but not a problem...gotta love that Tomkin skid plate! I made my way to the top, whew!
Ed was next, and with his 33's and ARB front locker, he made it up slick as you please.
Dan was next, and got the high jump award. At the large wash out, he lifted his left front about 4 feet up, but made it find. He also nailed the large boulder w/ his Tomkin. Collectively, we probably knocked an inch or so of rock off that boulder.
Once all were at the top, we took one look back, thinking that we've gotta go back down that thing, and also thinking that the worst was over...wrong. After some challenging trail sections, we came to a section that contained large rocks and boulders with no clear line. We all got out and walked up the trail to see what lay ahead. Another very steep hill, with alot of loose decomposed granite.
We decided that the better part of valor was to head back. At this point, Jeff, in turning around, took a short side trail, and got his front diff. up on a large rock. Using his trusty hi-lift jack, we raised the front and loaded rocks under his wheels. He made it up fine.
Back at the hill, some fun was had by all. Going down is generally more hairy than going up, and this hill was no exception to that rule. Near the top, Ed got his left wheels in a washout, and started to tip over. Luckily, Dan and I were near at hand, and pulled him back down from the passenger side of his CJ. I road it like an out-rigger (hanging on his roll bar and windshield), with Dan hanging on to the right rear...till he got out of the washout. If he was gonna go over at this point, I figured I'd probably go flying over the jeep and into the brush, but anything for a fellow Jeepster.
The rest of the trip back was uneventfull. About half way down, Dan and I started looking for camp sites, while Ed and Jeff headed on down and back to town.
Dan and I found a nice flat spot, with some beautiful views. At night, the lights of Phoenix were visible in the distance. The moon rose at about 10 or so, and cast an eery pale on the valley we were in. In the morning, we were greeted by a stupendous view of the sun hitting the mountains to the west.
All in all, an excellent trip!
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154 From: Revolvr@a...
Date: Mon Nov 9, 1998 3:26pm
Subject: More Mud Springs observations
Excellent trip report Doug. I'll add in my 2 cents too.
I was told I won the high jump award both going up the hill and going
down. I'm not sure what my prize is, perhaps a new dent in my nerf bar!
Jeff and his friend were the official trip photographers. I hope to get
some of these pictures posted for everyone. We had a few great photo
ops.
I think we all scraped bottom a few times, except perhaps for Ed with
his 33 inch tires. I looked carefully under my Jeep and inventoried all
of the scratches, scrapes and dents. Here's the list:
Hit both left and right sides of the Tomken gas tank skid plate. No
damage save for some paint scraped off. I must also praise this skid
plate. Any time this plate meets rock, the plate wins.
Had a few other scrapes on the skid plate near the center.
Both nerf bars scraped on various places, all on the underside where it
isn't visible.
One dent in right nerf bar up front where it is visible, but not bad.
Deep scratchs on plastic fender flare on right front aft of wheel well,
close to the dent in the nerf bar. I'm not sure what I hit here.
One scrape and a small dent on my oil pan. No real damage, but this is
the only dent that concerns me since it could have put the Jeep out of
commision. Looks like an oil pan skid plate is on my Christmas list.
The right rear lower control arm has scrapes on it. This is unusual
since the control arm is so close to the tire. Tells you how rocky the
trail was.
Left rear plastic bumper end cap has a good scrape on the bottom of it.
(The right rear end cap was removed after my last Class 4 adventure).
No evidence of any scrapes on either differential pumpkin. Looks like I
protected those fairly well. Either that or Jeff scraped all the rocks
flat first with his differentials!
I cleaned off all the areas where the paint was scraped off, then gave
them all a shot of Rust-Oleum gloss black spray paint, which I keep
around just for touching up where paint is scraped off. No real damage,
all of these scrapes were minor cosmetic scrapes only. Only the small
dent in the nerf bar would be visible to the casual observer.
All in all an excellent trip. Looking forward to seeing the pictures!
-- Dan
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155 From: RDMcF@a...
Date: Mon Nov 9, 1998 10:56pm
Subject: Fwd: More Mud Springs observations
Sounds like some well earned battle scars. I wish I could have joined you
guys, but I probably would have been out of my league on this trip anyway.
Question: Does anyone have any idea how effective the skid plates are on the
'97 Sport models? Mine came equipped with a few skid plates, and I honestly
haven't given much thought to upgrading or adding to them. Any thoughts?
Thanks for the help, and for the great trip reports.
Dan McFarlane
'97 TJ Sport
In a message dated 11/9/98 9:27:02 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Revolvr@a... writes:
> Hit both left and right sides of the Tomken gas tank skid plate. No
> damage save for some paint scraped off. I must also praise this skid
> plate. Any time this plate meets rock, the plate wins.
>
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From: Revolvr@a...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:26:28 EST
To: az_vjc@m...
Subject: [az_vjc] More Mud Springs observationsExcellent trip report Doug. I'll add in my 2 cents too.
I was told I won the high jump award both going up the hill and going
down. I'm not sure what my prize is, perhaps a new dent in my nerf bar!
Jeff and his friend were the official trip photographers. I hope to get
some of these pictures posted for everyone. We had a few great photo
ops.
I think we all scraped bottom a few times, except perhaps for Ed with
his 33 inch tires. I looked carefully under my Jeep and inventoried all
of the scratches, scrapes and dents. Here's the list:
Hit both left and right sides of the Tomken gas tank skid plate. No
damage save for some paint scraped off. I must also praise this skid
plate. Any time this plate meets rock, the plate wins.
Had a few other scrapes on the skid plate near the center.
Both nerf bars scraped on various places, all on the underside where it
isn't visible.
One dent in right nerf bar up front where it is visible, but not bad.
Deep scratchs on plastic fender flare on right front aft of wheel well,
close to the dent in the nerf bar. I'm not sure what I hit here.
One scrape and a small dent on my oil pan. No real damage, but this is
the only dent that concerns me since it could have put the Jeep out of
commision. Looks like an oil pan skid plate is on my Christmas list.
The right rear lower control arm has scrapes on it. This is unusual
since the control arm is so close to the tire. Tells you how rocky the
trail was.
Left rear plastic bumper end cap has a good scrape on the bottom of it.
(The right rear end cap was removed after my last Class 4 adventure).
No evidence of any scrapes on either differential pumpkin. Looks like I
protected those fairly well. Either that or Jeff scraped all the rocks
flat first with his differentials!
I cleaned off all the areas where the paint was scraped off, then gave
them all a shot of Rust-Oleum gloss black spray paint, which I keep
around just for touching up where paint is scraped off. No real damage,
all of these scrapes were minor cosmetic scrapes only. Only the small
dent in the nerf bar would be visible to the casual observer.
All in all an excellent trip. Looking forward to seeing the pictures!
-- Dan
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156 From: Doug B <daballard@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 1998 6:41am
Subject: Re: Fwd: More Mud Springs observations
RDMcF@a... wrote:
> Question: Does anyone have any idea how effective the skid plates are on the
> '97 Sport models? Mine came equipped with a few skid plates, and I honestly
> haven't given much thought to upgrading or adding to them. Any thoughts?
>
Sorry you couldn't make the Mud Springs trip. Dan is setting up the
Table Mesa run, so hopefully we'll see you there.
As to skid plates, the most prone area on your 97TJ is the gas tank. The
stock plate is quite light and prone to damage. I consider replacing
this almost imperative. I can't speak highly enough of the Tomkin plate.
It's really tough. I slips right over the stock tank/plate and surrounds
the sides of the plastic gas tank (yep...it's plastic). I understand
that TeraFlex now makes one also, but havn't heard any first hand
reports about it.
Once you have your gas tank covered, your 90% there. Other plates to
look at cover the steering box; the oil pan and front diff. The problems
I've heard with the last one is loss in ground clearance. I'm thinking
about getting one for the front diff that I saw on a Web page. Bolts
right on the lower half of the diff, and looks like an upside-down
cattle guard on an old locomotive. Doesn't prevent the bottom from
hitting, so much as it protects the front cover. No loss in gound
clearance.
After the gas tank is taken care of, I'd probably go for good rocker
panel protection, since damage here can be quite expensive to fix. Good
nerf bars are something to look into. Some tuck right up to the rockers,
for minimum loss in ground clearance.
Doug
98TJ
AzVJC
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157 From: Revolvr@a...
Date: Tue Nov 10, 1998 1:55pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: More Mud Springs observations
In a message dated 11/10/98 4:56:41 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
RDMcF@a... writes:
> Question: Does anyone have any idea how effective the skid plates are on
the
> '97 Sport models? Mine came equipped with a few skid plates, and I
honestly
> haven't given much thought to upgrading or adding to them. Any thoughts?
>
The gas tank skid plate on my 98 TJ is just thin sheetmetal protecting the
plastic gas tank. It's probably OK on Class 3 trails; I never hit mine until I
tried Class 4 trails. It will not likely survive any significant impact, so I
would highly recommend an aftermarket skid plate. The Tomken sure does seem
tough.
The only other skid plate is the transfer case cover. This looks solid, and
I've never hit mine on anything.
Other protection I would suggest for Class 3 trails is some side panel
protection like nerf bars. I have Smittybilt 3 inch tubular nerf bars that so
far have proven to be quite tough. They do protrude out to the side quite a
bit (I wanted a step) and so are fairly likely to get scraped. You can get
leaner nerf bars; DougB has a set that fit snugly against the chasis. Jeff
Meade has even leaner bars on his XJ that look like little more than angle
iron. Be sure you get structurally sound bars. The MOPAR no-drill set for
example, looks tough but is actually cosmetic only.
Also have a hi-lift jack. The only trail damage I've seen on class 3 trails,
other than a minor scrape on the nerf bars, is a flat tire. And when tires go
out on the trail, they usually end up with a long gash in the sidewall that
isn't reparable.
Course, this assumes you're driving with care. I have seen a truck totaled on
a class 2 trail after flipping over because the driver was going a little too
fast down a hill and hit the brakes when he saw a Jeep coming up the hill.
For Class 4 trails, plan on an oil pan skid plate too.
-- Dan
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158 From: James A Langdon <yucca-man@j...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 1998 2:57pm
Subject: A Vet......
Thanks to all veterans and their families, and Happy 223d birthday to all
you Jarheads!
This found it's way to my Inbox from another vet, my father, a Naval
Lieutenant (jg) in Vietnam.
Jim
Sgt, USMC
WHAT IS A VET ??
Some veterans bear visible signs of their service: a missing limb, a
jagged scar, a certain look in the eye. Others may carry the evidence
inside them: a pin holding a bone together, a piece of shrapnel in the
leg - or perhaps another sort of inner steel: the soul's ally forged
in the refinery of adversity.
Except in parades, however, the men and women who have kept America
safe wear no badge or emblem.
You can't tell a vet just by looking.
What is a vet?
He is the cop on the beat who spent six months in Saudi Arabia
sweating two gallons a day making sure the armored personnel carriers
didn't run out of fuel.
He is the barroom loudmouth, dumber than five wooden planks, whose
overgrown frat-boy behavior is outweighed a hundred times in the cosmic
scales by four hours of exquisite bravery near the 38th parallel.
She - or he - is the nurse who fought against futility and went to
sleep sobbing every night for two solid years in Da Nang.
He is the POW who went away one person and came back another - or
didn't come back AT ALL.
He is the Quantico drill instructor who has never seen combat -but
has saved countless lives by turning, slouchy hill-billy rednecks
and no-account gang members into Marines, and teaching them to watch
each other's backs.
He is the parade - riding Legionnaire who pins on his ribbons and medals
with a prosthetic hand.
He is the career quartermaster who watches the ribbons and medals
pass him by.
He is the three anonymous heroes in The Tomb Of The Unknowns,
whose presence at the Arlington National Cemetery must forever preserve
the
memory of all the anonymous heroes whose valor dies unrecognized with
them on the battlefield or in the ocean's sunless deep.
He is the old guy bagging groceries at the supermarket - palsied now
and aggravatingly slow - who helped liberate a Nazi death camp and who
wishes all day long that his wife were still alive to hold him when the
nightmares come.
He also was my father, your father, grandfather, husband, brother,
uncle, cousin, and yes , all the females who bravely served and are
serving their country, for OUR freedom .
He is an ordinary and yet an extraordinary human being - a person
who offered some of his life's most vital years in the service of his
country, and who sacrificed his ambitions so others would not have to
sacrifice theirs.
He is a soldier and a savior and a sword against the darkness, and
he is nothing more than the finest, greatest testimony on behalf of the
finest, greatest nation ever known.
So remember, each time you see someone who has served or is serving
our country, just lean over and say "Thank You." That's all most people
need, and in most cases it will mean more than any medals they could
have been awarded or were awarded.
Two little words that mean a lot, "THANK YOU".
Remember: November 11th is Veterans Day
And don't forget to Fly The FLAG on Nov. 11th, with pride:
Alice
alicep@m... "Message From Massachusetts"
Thank You Veterans!
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159 From: RDMcF@a...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 1998 3:13am
Subject: Skid Plates
Thanks for the advice, everyone. Looks like I have some work to do (and money
to spend) before I do any serious off-roading. Are the parts you guys are
referring to sold locally, or through a catalog?
Thanks again for the help. And happy Veteran's Day to all you veterans.
Thank you for the sacrifices, big and small, that you and your families have
made for your country.
Dan McFarlane
'97 TJ Sport
USN 1976-1984
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160 From: TLCU72096@a...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 1998 8:20am
Subject: Re: A VET
Thanks Yucca-man! And, Happy veteran's day to all of our fellow veterans in
the group.
Larry - 94 YJ still working on the tranny.
Airborne Ranger, U.S. Army (1992-1997)
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161 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@f...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 1998 7:02pm
Subject: re: a vet
The same message was posted to the Full Size Jeep list with this at the
end.....
Thanks to all of you!
Len Sullivan
1978 J-10
>>>snip<<<
>"It is the soldier, not the reporter,
>Who has given us freedom of the press.
>It is the soldier, not the poet,
>Who has given us freedom of speech.
>It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
>Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
>It is the soldier,
>Who salutes the flag,
>Who serves beneath the flag,
>And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
>Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
>
>Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---------------------------------
>Thank you...
>Thank all you SOBs...;)
>
>Kenneth E. Wetherall ICQ 1672244
>Concord, CA. kenns9@e...
>
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162 From: James A Langdon <yucca-man@j...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 1998 10:13am
Subject: re: Skid Plates
Actually, you have a very capable trail vehicle in stock form. While the
potential for damage is there, there comes a point where you have to
decide whether to keep the truck on the streets and continue to add armor
to it, or go out and enjoy it, while adding pieces of armor as needed.
As far as the parts being available locally, most 4x shops in Phoenix
have (or can order) what you need.
Desert Rat (Rural and 60, Tempe) 838-7800
Fly-n-Hi (Country Club and Southern, Mesa) 962-7123
There are plenty of others, but these two are close enough that I drop in
from time to time to drool...er..shop.
Jim
73 CJ5 89 Cherokee
http://members.tripod.com/~Yucca_man/azjeep
Thanks for the advice, everyone. Looks like I have some work to do (and
money
to spend) before I do any serious off-roading. Are the parts you guys
are
referring to sold locally, or through a catalog?
Thanks again for the help. And happy Veteran's Day to all you veterans.
Thank you for the sacrifices, big and small, that you and your families
have
made for your country.
Dan McFarlane
'97 TJ Sport
USN 1976-1984
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163 From: Robert A. DiGiacomo <jarhead@a...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 1998 8:44am
Subject: Re: re: a vet
I'd just like to say the message a vet is ..... really hit home. Thanks gents.
Rob DiGiacomo
USMC (1993-1995)
The same message was posted to the Full Size Jeep list with this at the
> end.....
>
> Thanks to all of you!
>
> Len Sullivan
> 1978 J-10
>
>
> >>>snip<<<
>
> >"It is the soldier, not the reporter,
> >Who has given us freedom of the press.
> >It is the soldier, not the poet,
> >Who has given us freedom of speech.
> >It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
> >Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
> >It is the soldier,
> >Who salutes the flag,
> >Who serves beneath the flag,
> >And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
> >Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
> >
> >Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >---------------------------------
> >Thank you...
> >Thank all you SOBs...;)
> >
> >Kenneth E. Wetherall ICQ 1672244
> >Concord, CA. kenns9@e...
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com
>
>
>
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164 From: daballard@p...
Date: Sat Nov 14, 1998 7:16am
Subject: BFG 31x 10.5 For Sale
For sale to a good (Jeep)home. 4 BFG 31x10.50 T/A's. 8,900 mi. $200.
Doug
98TJ
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165 From: daballard@p...
Date: Sun Nov 15, 1998 8:03am
Subject: Re: BFG 31x 10.5 For Sale
For sale to a good (Jeep)home. 4 BFG 31x10.50 T/A's. 8,900 mi. $200.
>
> Doug
> 98TJ
>
I'm also selling 4 15x8 OEM AR Gambler Aluminium rims for $250. The above referenced tires are still mounted on the rims...balanced and ready to go.
Doug
98TJ
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