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heatstroke
01-30-2007, 09:33 PM
Anyone else get or know about this ? ? ?

Sandee, any insight on this? Do we all need to respond? Is there a specific date or dates that work for everyone? I would think weekend dates would be best for the majority.


" Dear Public land Partner,
Recently the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) Tucson Field Office Manager
announced plans to establish in 2007 the travel management plan for public
lands administered by the BLM in the Middle Gila Canyons area northeast of
the Town of Florence, and invited your help in developing the plan.

Thank you all for your responses of interest in helping define the travel
management plan, and in participating in the stakeholder meetings in
February and March. At this point, three meetings are planned, with dates
to be determined based on your availability.

We would like to schedule the meetings next week, and ask that you identify
the dates that you are available in February and March. The meetings will
likely run a full 8 hour day, and may be scheduled during the week or
weekend days depending on your availability.
Please let me know as soon as possible the dates you are available for the
meetings by this Friday (Feb 2) if at all possible. We'll be reviewing the
dates early next week to identify those that everyone can attend, and will
send out a note on the meeting dates.

Thank you all for your continued interest, and your help so far.

If you have any questions, please feel free to call.

Francisco J. Mendoza
Outdoor Recreation Planner
12661 E. Broadway Blvd.
Tucson, AZ 85748
PH(520) 258-7226
FAX(520) 258-7238 "

Sandee McCullen
01-30-2007, 10:31 PM
Anyone else get or know about this ? ? ?

Sandee, any insight on this? Do we all need to respond? Is there a specific date or dates that work for everyone? I would think weekend dates would be best for the majority.


" Dear Public land Partner,
Recently the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) Tucson Field Office Manager
announced plans to establish in 2007 the travel management plan for public
lands administered by the BLM in the Middle Gila Canyons area northeast of
the Town of Florence, and invited your help in developing the plan.

Thank you all for your responses of interest in helping define the travel
management plan, and in participating in the stakeholder meetings in
February and March. At this point, three meetings are planned, with dates
to be determined based on your availability.

We would like to schedule the meetings next week, and ask that you identify
the dates that you are available in February and March. The meetings will
likely run a full 8 hour day, and may be scheduled during the week or
weekend days depending on your availability.
Please let me know as soon as possible the dates you are available for the
meetings by this Friday (Feb 2) if at all possible. We'll be reviewing the
dates early next week to identify those that everyone can attend, and will
send out a note on the meeting dates.

Thank you all for your continued interest, and your help so far.

If you have any questions, please feel free to call.

Francisco J. Mendoza
Outdoor Recreation Planner
12661 E. Broadway Blvd.
Tucson, AZ 85748
PH(520) 258-7226
FAX(520) 258-7238 "

You probably don't want to read my email to him this afternoon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am soooooooooooooo ticked. We were suppose to have 45 days to complete a transportation plan. They then wanted 20 days to review and THEN go to the table for approx. 60 days (3-4 long days) to work towards a Preferred Plan.

I truly don't know what this is about but I wasn't happy. Typical from Francisco. If everyone wants to respond I don't mind. I don't know what they've changed their plans to. I cannot believe he is expecting everyone he sent letters to to show to these meetings but if he's opened it up ........... go for it.

I would recommend you, Rob, Chris and Bill M. but certainly won't discourage anyone. Whomever volunteers must be able to see it through to the end.

I'll call the office first thing in the morning............ more then.

FrenchChili
01-30-2007, 10:40 PM
Can we attend as spectators? (I take it only a few will do the talking)

Sandee McCullen
01-31-2007, 08:05 AM
Can we attend as spectators? (I take it only a few will do the talking)

I truly don't know what Tucson BLM is doing or expecting at this time. In early Oct. the plans were:
1) Have the map and letter explaining the procedure out by the 1st week of OCTOBER.
2) Were to have 45 days to do a PLAN
3) Next 20 days were for BLM to review what they received.
4) Next 60 days were to be dedicated to working with a task team to develop a Preferred Alternative.
This team was to be picked from those that submitted their name and short bio re their knowledge of the area and/or trail planning.

I would most certainly support you, and others, to spectate the working group. It will help others understand what is really happening.

Push for it............

I'll be talking to Francisco and Patrick later this morning so will ask your question. More info later!

heatstroke
01-31-2007, 08:09 AM
"If everyone wants to respond I don't mind. I would recommend you, Rob, Chris and Bill M. but certainly won't discourage anyone. Whomever volunteers must be able to see it through to the end.

I'll call the office first thing in the morning............ more then.

I thought this seemed a little hasty and on the down low. Let us know what your call reveals. We should probably all plan on at least 1 Saturday meeting and absolutely overwhelm them with over flow attendance :D . I'll ask the masses to unleash the emails as soon as we know a little something more.

rockwerks
01-31-2007, 08:39 AM
looks like Francisco is trying to eliminate having time for proper responses

Sandee McCullen
01-31-2007, 10:31 AM
I thought this seemed a little hasty and on the down low. Let us know what your call reveals. We should probably all plan on at least 1 Saturday meeting and absolutely overwhelm them with over flow attendance :D . I'll ask the masses to unleash the emails as soon as we know a little something more.

I'm on the phone with Francisco as I write......... have been for over an hour but for those of you that know Francisco it takes him 20 minutes to say what we can say in 2.

Re the Transportation Plan: We're ok. I'll have the Transportation Plan done by the second week of Feb. and that was actually the timeline anyway. He's looking at the Task Team getting together late Feb. into March and maybe April to work towards the Preferred Alternative. Want the alternatives to go to the public by the end of the summer.

I've submitted 4 names (Mike B, Chris R, Bill M, Rob F.) to be part of the Task Team but EVERYONE is welcome to submit their name if they are interested. Members of the Task Team must be able to dedicate anywhere from 4 to as many as 8 Saturdays (8 hr days) to this project. If you can only schedule a couple it would be best if you join in as a stakeholder in lieu of a member of the Task Team.

I asked about "spectators" to enable a wider understanding of the process and they are open to allowing anyone interested in sitting in on the meetings but this will depend somewhat on the rooms we can get.

Bottom line............ we're ok. The "tone" of the conversation changed substantially when I told him we were presenting a complete OHV Transportation Plan with documented data and history. He was told straight out OHV are not going to stand still for the enviro "personal agenda" methods............. not G&F's either.

I will be working on the Plan but if you're interested send in your name and contact info as well as identify available dates. Personally I have the 17th available in Feb and then we're into March.

PLEASE DO NOT enter into this with trying to show force. We are truly trying to build a trust factor here AND show we know what we're doing. "Overwhelming" them with RED SHIRTS will only make our data or input look unprofessional.

#2 Conversation: The OHV Gas Tax dollars are no longer going out through grants......... we are getting the money to the ground quickly through agreements instead. Each agency field office or district can apply for two $10,000.00 "grants" for small projects. Francisco asked if the OHV would be willing to work on the road across/thru the riparian area of Martinez Canyon along with interpretative signing around the cabin itself. They can do it within staff but it will be out of the picture for a year or more without our help. I asked if we could have a "guarantee" to not close the canyon to OHV access the minute we do all the work. I also reminded him I was on the advisory board to approve the $10,000.00 or $20,000.00 funding for this project and would vote against it if OHV didn't have some guarantee. He agreed.
Do we want to look at putting together a plan for this?

My1stJeep
01-31-2007, 01:46 PM
Sandee,

Is he willing to put that comment in writing?

1BLKJP
01-31-2007, 02:22 PM
Sandee,

Is he willing to put that comment in writing?

Bingo!!!!!

Sandee after that guy F'd me over and then patted my back for it with that walking path project after we put together so many people to help. I don't think that I can even be in the same room with him still to this day.

I would be fine with doing it again however if the statements he made to you on the phone were put into writing and signed by Patrick.

Sandee McCullen
01-31-2007, 04:30 PM
Sandee,

Is he willing to put that comment in writing?

Most likely but you can't truly trust this either. I can guarantee he will NOT get the money without something IN WRITING.

k7mto
01-31-2007, 05:07 PM
.. can guarantee he will NOT get help from AZVJC members without something IN WRITING.

fixed it for ya.

Sandee McCullen
01-31-2007, 05:13 PM
Bingo!!!!!

Sandee after that guy F'd me over and then patted my back for it with that walking path project after we put together so many people to help. I don't think that I can even be in the same room with him still to this day.

I would be fine with doing it again however if the statements he made to you on the phone were put into writing and signed by Patrick.

Jack,
I understand where you're coming from and I've told Francisco he "BROKE ALL OR ANY TRUST THAT HAD BEEN FORMED" by stating "closed" on the map he sent out. He STILL stands by the fact it was "ONLY A PRELIMINARY" map but in thinking about this issue it may actually HELP US................... we can use this against BLM by declaring "pre-decisional". Along with our proposed mitigation and the "history" they are going to have to produce some really solid data supporting closure.
What you all do need to do as this moves along is make comment to Patrick about this................ The fact that Francisco sent the map reflecting (green lines) the trails that were agreed by all three alternatives to be open. The remaining trails (blue) needed "further analysis" as all three alternatives did not agree but to ADD "RED" reflecting closure when only ONE alternative recommended closure was taken as predecisional.

If we turn our backs................ irregardless of our likes or dislikes of Francisco ............... ENVIROS WIN. Are you willing to allow that? I'm not.

michaelp
02-01-2007, 01:40 AM
Everything is wonderful under the sun.

jeff krause
02-01-2007, 02:49 PM
Tank eu for showing ze Jeep traaaails. Now I be shuttting dem down while I take a siestaaaaa.



Don't know the guy....... but comments like this should not be in an open forum where "guests" and brows..... Racial sterotypes in this arena should not be tollerated. :mad:

My $0.02 worth.

Jeff

Sandee McCullen
02-01-2007, 03:11 PM
fixed it for ya.

THAT TOO!!!


LAUGH OF THE DAY...............

Francisco just wrote wanting "US" to chip into the pot to fund cultural/environmental studies. YA RIGHT???!@!!
We'll do our own studies and specialists.

He's normally off the edge but this really flipped the fuse! :D :rolleyes: :(

michaelp
02-01-2007, 07:36 PM
Don't know the guy....... but comments like this should not be in an open forum where "guests" and brows..... Racial sterotypes in this arena should not be tollerated. :mad:

My $0.02 worth.

Jeff

Oh yeah, I forgot. Any deviation from the "norm" will not be tolerated.
Please report to Camp 216592 for reeducation. Preferred method of transportation will be cattle cars with armed escorts to ensure your "Safety".

azdesertrhino
02-01-2007, 07:42 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot. Any deviation from the "norm" will not be tolerated.
Please report to Camp 216592 for reeducation. Preferred method of transportation will be cattle cars with armed escorts to ensure your "Safety".

:rolleyes: Maybe the noob will learn! Doubtful but possible!

rockwerks
02-01-2007, 07:53 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot. Any deviation from the "norm" will not be tolerated.
Please report to Camp 216592 for reeducation. Preferred method of transportation will be cattle cars with armed escorts to ensure your "Safety".

racial comments are never wanted or needed. Have you always been an *** or is it a show just for us?

My1stJeep
02-01-2007, 10:05 PM
Since when has anyone on the board been ok with racial slurs? While I agree that in some cases some of the people we are stuck working with in organizations maybe or at least appear asleep at the wheel, making comments like yours serves no purpose and is not representative of the people on this board.

What did you think it was going to help working with people within the land management organizations? Did you think it was going to come across as an intellegent, well thought out comment that would lead to a change in someones opinion? The only thing comments like that do is give ammunition to those who oppose the views of responsible OHV users that want to keep lands open to OHV access.

By the way, there are people from different land management groups that do follow our posts and threads and if you think your comment was funny, beneficial or in anyway served a purpose you are sadly mistaken. It would be appreciated by the many who are working hard to make some real progress on these issues and bring a positive working experience with the land management groups if you would keep comments like that to yourself.

michaelp
02-01-2007, 10:50 PM
You guys crack me up. I can just see you looking awkwardly over your shoulder to see if anyones looking before you type. Im sure some "lazy government employee" (wink wink):rolleyes: has the time to stop in on this web site to see what anyone thinks of them. How about you all get serious and start lobbying. Nobody has ever gotten what they wanted from the government from the bottom up, except maybe crapped on. Being a lifelong government employee, I know where this is going already. FJ area will look kinda like camelback mountain in the future.
*(The following commentary is OPINION in no way, shape, or form reflects the views of AZVJC nor was meant as any form of racial slur, insult to any government entity or organization and is not discriminatory nor retaliatory to anyone.):)

azdesertrhino
02-02-2007, 06:13 AM
OT OT OT

I think there should be special recognition to two unsung heros in the world.

The inventor of the mute button and the person that figured out the "ignore list".

Congrats newbie michaelp for making my list!!

Back on topic.

I was at the Florence area walkway build and marker placement. It was disheartening to learn after the off road community made such a great showing, Francisco lied to our faces and turns around and tries to stab you in the back.

rockwerks
02-02-2007, 07:13 AM
OT OT OT

I think there should be special recognition to two unsung heros in the world.

The inventor of the mute button and the person that figured out the "ignore list".

Congrats newbie michaelp for making my list!!

Back on topic.




X2, first person IVe ever added to ignore list


Added michaelp to Your Ignore List

Sandee McCullen
02-02-2007, 03:55 PM
OT OT OT

I think there should be special recognition to two unsung heros in the world.

The inventor of the mute button and the person that figured out the "ignore list".

Congrats newbie michaelp for making my list!!

Back on topic.

I was at the Florence area walkway build and marker placement. It was disheartening to learn after the off road community made such a great showing, Francisco lied to our faces and turns around and tries to stab you in the back.

Give a break a little.................. Francisco has NO AUTHORITY to close anything. He's still stating "it's only a preliminary". If we present enough substantive data regarding use of these trails (specifically LW) they (BLM) will have to have better data to close. If we stay united....... don't have to like government......... we can beat this. Actually with having as many OHV volunteers at the "pathway" and "signing" of LW CAN HELP US.:) :D

Stay with it. AZVJC; ASA4WDC and the Coalition are known and so far "respected" by the agencies. Hopefully we can keep this.

oldhockeyvb
02-02-2007, 05:37 PM
Sandee:

Can the United 4wd Association help us with any of this? Doesn't most of the money clubs pay to the state association go to the united association?

http://www.ufwda.org/landuse.htm

Sandee McCullen
02-02-2007, 09:23 PM
Sandee:

Can the United 4wd Association help us with any of this? Doesn't most of the money clubs pay to the state association go to the united association?

http://www.ufwda.org/landuse.htm

United won't help us do anything. They claim "only national issues" unless we guarantee to PAY BACK ALL MONEY. If we do that we can do it ourselves.

A couple of years ago the ASA4WDC voted to pay the minimum assoc. dues to enable us to pay or support ourselves. Re "letters" or "legal"....... they'll not do much, if anything. In this specific issue there isn't a need or legal or intervention from outside the state. BLM are doing nothing outside their mandates. Being "green" is not against the law. OHV have sat back and let the federal land managers be ruled by the enviros for years....... We simply need to keep up on them to ensure they maintain "land manager" status of PUBLIC lands and not environmental.

Fire Ball
02-03-2007, 09:10 AM
Sandee we met at the meeting in Mesa last week, I think it was the 27th. I live in AJ and am willing to help any way I can. Weekends are a little limited with me since I usualy work but I do usually have a bit of free time.

Bill H.

P.S. michaelp I have gone back and read many of your past posts and you have a history of being a ... well I don't know the words to use other than you have been ignored.

michaelp
02-03-2007, 09:51 AM
Not agreeing with someone = your right.

Telling someone you are putting them on ignore in a public forum = 3rd grade.
Thanks guys. Next time use PM's.:)

Sandee McCullen
02-03-2007, 10:41 AM
Sandee we met at the meeting in Mesa last week, I think it was the 27th. I live in AJ and am willing to help any way I can. Weekends are a little limited with me since I usualy work but I do usually have a bit of free time.

Bill H.

P.S. michaelp I have gone back and read many of your past posts and you have a history of being a ... well I don't know the words to use other than you have been ignored.

Thanks for the offer................ and thanks for helping out at the planning meeting in Mesa. I believe we received some important history information at that time so along with the data we already have along with a report from an independent biologist, we should be good to go.

Anyone wanting to be involved in the "at the table" planning meetings to develop a Preferred Alternative are encouraged to do so. It will involve a number of Saturdays over the next couple of months. BLM seem to believe 3.................. I think it will be more like 6. I participated in the evaluations that we already have and it took 5 or 6 WEEKENDS of 20-26 HOURS each weekend to obtain what we have now. Unless our facilitator can keep the enviros from running the show or arguing every issue discussed this will not be a quick and easy process. Although............ if you have some time on one of the planned meetings you are more than welcome and encouraged to attend as a spectator to learn how these processes work.

Fire Ball
02-03-2007, 11:51 AM
I'll keep an eye out for posted meeting times. Also if things are needed out on the trails as far as signage and other work I'm up for the task. I'm getting tired of loosing ground, no pun intended.